Open mike 25/09/2023

77 comments on “Open mike 25/09/2023 ”

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1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1

   25 September 2023 at 8:26 am

   Luxon on NZ First. (we knew, you slimy creep)

   National Party leader Christopher Luxon has made it clear that he will cut a deal with NZ First leader Winston Peters if he has to – ending months of refusing to say whether he will rule NZ First in or out.

   And now Luxon has said this…We need to highlight exactly who the coalition of chaos would be !

   “However, if New Zealand First is returned to Parliament, and I need to pick up the phone to Mr Peters to keep Labour and the coalition of chaos out, I will make that call.

   https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/luxon-confirms-he-would-work-nz-first
   • Mike the Lefty 1.1

     25 September 2023 at 8:52 am

     National – ACT – NZ First: The Coalition of Division.

     Thats what it is and what Labour needs to call it, loudly and often.

     Labour should be reprising National's boat ad in 2014. Instead of red shirted and green shirted rowers trying to row in different directions it will be blue shirted, multi colour shirted and black shirted pirates trying to throw each other out of the boat.

     Labour needs to get down and dirty, but I fear Hipkins is at heart too decent a guy to go that far.
     • James Simpson 1.1.1

       25 September 2023 at 11:10 am

       There is no way in hell that Winston and David will be at the cabinet table together. If they needed the numbers to get over the line I think NZF would be in coalition with National.

       Act would get one or two ministers outside of cabinet/government on a confidence and support deal. Similar to the way the Greens have been working with Labour for 6 years
       • Belladonna 1.1.1.1

         25 September 2023 at 4:21 pm

         Sorry, equally no way that Seymour would accept being outside the government (with double the numbers of MPs) if NZF are inside the government.

         He's not the pushover the GP was in 2017.

         There might be an arrangement with both of them as C+S partners to a minority National government.
   • ianmac 1.2

     25 September 2023 at 12:52 pm

     Ironic that Winston derides the debate on who NZF would go with. We should be concentrating on the things that matter and not on the "horse race."

     Wasn't it he that said early on that he would not go with Labour thus setting off the debate?
     • Belladonna 1.2.1

       25 September 2023 at 4:22 pm

       Just because Winston said at one point in time that he wouldn't go into government with Labour, doesn't make it true. He's the master of weasel manipulation. If it suited him, and the political climate post-election allowed, he'd be negotiating with Labour like a shot. 'What's in it for Winston', is his over-riding mantra.
   • SPC 1.3

     25 September 2023 at 1:34 pm

     If the 3 have the majority, it would be interesting if NZF allowed ACT participation in a coalition government (they denied this to Greens in 2017).

     On past form NZF has always tried to keep the party on the left or right out of government or coalition (Alliance 1996) and here ACT in 2023.

     Thus if they are consistent they would favour a National minority government backed on c and s by NZF and ACT.

     However it seems Peters is not discounting a 3 party coalition – a coalition based on agreed policy apparently because Seymour might not offer supply to a National-NZF coalition or National minority government.

     This has led to a a lot of supportive right wing commentators using their NZH platform to demand an ACT driven regime.

     The purpose of which is to pressure National to campaign in the centre to take votes off Labour but bend to ACT after the election – as a tactic to deliver a NACT majority by hiding how radical the coalition would be afterwards.

     With Peters considering a three party coalition, rather than c and s to a minority National governing in the centre – the post election talks would be the most consequential in our MMP political history (given the range of potential outcomes for policy – decided by politicians and not voters).
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.3.1

       25 September 2023 at 4:19 pm

       a tactic to deliver a NACT majority by hiding how radical the coalition would be afterwards.

       Yea thats my worry. How fast and far reaching their actions would be.

       IMO They would assume they got a mandate….to start the slashing..down.
     • Belladonna 1.3.2

       25 September 2023 at 4:27 pm

       the post election talks would be the most consequential in our MMP political history

       Why more so than 1996 or 2017 – where, in both cases, Winston decided the government (held the balance of power)?
   • Patricia Bremner 1.4

     25 September 2023 at 3:10 pm

     100% PLA.
   • Jim Cairns 1.5

     25 September 2023 at 6:33 pm

     Sounds a lot like you are very hypocritical considering the many times you have welcomed Winston so you could have power.

     there would have been no last six years of government if it weren't for Winston and no Jacinda
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.5.1

       25 September 2023 at 9:02 pm

       wtf? Jim Cairns…..You dont know me…and I dont know you. Probably a good thing. Anyway….best you get back under your bridge : )
2. Roy Cartland 2

   25 September 2023 at 8:42 am

   Of course he will. The only reason he's been delaying is that now the others can say a vote for Nat is a vote for Winston.
   • PsyclingLeft.Always 2.1

     25 September 2023 at 8:56 am

     And of course..there is this..

     For months, Luxon has dismissed questions about NZ First as hypothetical, saying they were not in Parliament or polling about 5 percent.

     However, it has now polled at or near that 5 percent threshold in a succession of polls. The latest 1News Verian poll gave National and Act a slim one-seat majority. A small shift of that vote would see NZ First come into play.

     IMO Luxon is still not anywhere near assured of power.

     However, Luxon is clearly worried some supporters might take his message as a nod to vote strategically, rather than for National, and further boost NZ First’s vote.

     And, even he says..

     “There’s a bit of commentary out there that this election is a foregone conclusion. I can assure you, it definitely isn’t, and that’s because every single MMP election is tight, and I expect the results to be extremely close this time too.”

     https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/luxon-confirms-he-would-work-nz-first

     Why…we should not give in. Fight… on !
3. Dennis Frank 3

   25 September 2023 at 8:51 am

   Guardian writer went to visit the radical, sets the scene thisaway:

   at the end of a summer of heatwaves and extreme weather conditions across the world, it feels more than a little apocalyptic. The sun is a dim orange orb struggling to shine through a haze of smoke while a shower of fine ash falls invisibly from the sky. A month later, two years’ worth of rain will fall in a single day in northern Greece, causing a biblical deluge and never-before-seen levels of flooding.

   That the end of the world feels just a little bit nearer here than it does in some places may not be coincidental to Varoufakis’s having written a new book called Technofeudalism: What Killed Capitalism. Nor that the book comes to the conclusion that capitalism has been replaced with something even worse. Not the glorious socialist revolution that his hero Marx foresaw. Nor some new mutation of capitalism such as the one detailed by Shoshana Zuboff in her surprise 2019 bestseller, The Age of Surveillance Capitalism. We’re now in servitude, Varoufakis argues, to the fiefdoms of our new global masters, Lord Zuckerberg of Facelandia and Sir Musk of the rotten borough of X. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/24/yanis-varoufakis-technofeudalism-capitalism-ukraine-interview

   If you haven't heard of “algorithmic rents” this is your intro. For a radical, one must admit he's a colourful trier. I'd prefer a winner though – he hasn't figured out where his leftism went wrong yet. Try harder!
   • Francesca 3.1

     25 September 2023 at 8:54 am

     Maybe you could try harder Dennis!

     I thought it was implicit in the article

     Left and right has given way to the techno oligarchies
     • Dennis Frank 3.1.1

       25 September 2023 at 10:09 am

       That's not a valid reason to abandon leftism as a strand of political thought though. Better to learn from failure, I reckon. More consistent with human nature.

       Of course, if the activist is entrained within a political ecosystem with hegemonic belief that leftists can't learn from failure due to believing they're always right, you get a monoculture that will oppress dissenters.

       Rather than head for history to cite stalinism as classic example, better to refer to contemporary political context. Focus on that chasm he mentions in the report (between head of state & minister of finance) where the leader betrays the expert when both are in overt solidarity as ruling cadre. The psychodynamics that drove the outcome into effect are where learning ought to focus.
       • Francesca 3.1.1.1

         25 September 2023 at 10:12 am

         So you think the "failure" of Varoufakis's leftism was a psychological failing?
         • Dennis Frank 3.1.1.1.1

           25 September 2023 at 10:41 am

           Yeah but it points to something more significant, for which I seek an explanation. I'm not into personal criticism of the guy, it's just that leaders ought to proceed to learn from experience so as to win next time.

           Radicals are best not viewed as a spent force – better to see them as somewhat out of tune with the masses. There's a philosophical question here: can a radical ever resonate with the masses? No binary answer, based on my life experience – it seems conditional on time & space & social context. That triad makes for relativity of meaning between person & group, so we can't generalise much.

           I'd like to see leftists get ahead via a fresh approach to politics, embracing leading-edge thought in young generations for relevance. He's one such youngster with proven ability at the top level. I'm not clear on his originality of thought (due to msm reporting) but the interview failed to show any.
           • francesca 3.1.1.1.1.1

             25 September 2023 at 11:37 am

             Oh well

             I guess it was unspeakably radical in the past for women to have the vote, or for homosexuals to be able to marry

             Pretty well accepted by the masses now
             • Dennis Frank …

               25 September 2023 at 12:00 pm

               Indeed. Retrospectively we can rationalise a `spirit of the age' that transforms us collectively. Those two transformations were based on shifting perception of minority group rights whereas the angst in society nowadays seems more generally felt on an emotional level which is tacit in most folk. We await whoever can articulate it, make it specific in relation to necessity, to drive societal change via collective force…
4. Ffloyd 4

   25 September 2023 at 8:53 am

   There is no coalition of chaos in Labour.

   But there will be a Coalition of Con Artists in the gang of three being touted.

   If FirstNatAct or NatActFirst or ActFirstNat or any variation gets in it’s going to be a Circus. Who gets the title?

   Three supreme egos with not much iq or eq input,plus non thinking subservient minions.

   What’s not to like lol.

   Blood on the floor.
   • Belladonna 4.1

     25 September 2023 at 4:30 pm

     Have to say, that I recall the same level of speculation – from the Right – about the chaos arising from a Labour/NZF government in 2017.

     They were proved wrong. Peters was not obviously disruptive – clearly the size of the baubles of power was appropriate.
5. Mr Nobody 5

   25 September 2023 at 9:33 am

   My Daughter and I drove from Just outside of Rotorua to Taihapa yesterday and were surprised at the quantity of election hordings, specifically the lack of Labour ones of which we counted only 10 on the entire drive which was less than even New Zeal's hoardings.

   Overall Labour's hoardings were out numbered roughly by Greens 2:1, NZ First 1.5:1, Act 3:1, National 4:1.

   Admittedly we drove only on the Main Highway/Route and assume that there would be more signs within the suburbs but would be interested to hear from other parts of the country what others are finding re the visibility of election hoardings.
   • AB 5.1

     25 September 2023 at 10:03 am

     This is the case every election. The countryside is Tory and like Faulkner's Snopes clan, the Nats exercise control over the small dirt-poor towns scattered through their estates, where it's dangerous for your job prospects to be known as a lefty. We drove from Auckland to Wellington over two days about a week before the Labour 2020 landslide election – and it was exactly the same. Your desire to read something special into the phenomenon this time round is curious, but not unexpected.
     • Anne 5.1.1

       25 September 2023 at 11:15 am

       "… the small dirt-poor towns scattered through their estates, where it's dangerous for your job prospects to be known as a lefty."

       I believe that attitude is now prevalent in some urban electorates. Having lived in the North Shore electorate for the past 40 years, there are noticeably less Labour hoardings this year than in the past.

       As someone who has sported a Labour bill-board on my driveway fence for the past five elections, I seriously considered not having one this time. In the end I agreed to small one. In the past there has been vandalism and last time the hoarding had to be replaced three times. So far so good… although there is evidence someone tried to remove this latest but not succeeded – not yet.

       I think it is highly likely that the level of vitriol towards this government – all of which has been driven by Labour's opponents both parliamentary and in the media – has caused people to feel less safe and potentially open to harassment if they openly express their support for Labour.

       I certainly can feel it in some places but I'm old and weary and frankly don't care what people think any more.
       • AB 5.1.1.1

         25 September 2023 at 12:07 pm

         Good on you. Having no more effs to give is one small compensation for getting older.
         • Barfly 5.1.1.1.1

           25 September 2023 at 2:02 pm

           I agree
       • mary_a 5.1.1.2

         25 September 2023 at 6:20 pm

         Anne I know where you are coming from.

         I live in a Central Otago town which is National. I'm a staunch Labour supporter and have never hidden the fact, which sometimes has brought snide remarks. But I don't give a big rat's backside. Like you Anne, I'm too old to care these days.

         I shall roll up to the polling booth on October 14 proudly wearing my red top as I always do, to cast my vote. If it’s a hot sunny day, I might even wear my green sunhat. That should confuse the masses .. hee hee.

         All the best Anne.
         • Jim Cairns 5.1.1.2.1

           25 September 2023 at 6:42 pm

           So what you are saying you just vote labour no matter what they offer or don't offer.

           weather it is good or bad.
         • Anne 5.1.1.2.2

           25 September 2023 at 6:54 pm

           “I might even wear my green sunhat. That should confuse the masses ..”

           I contemplated ringing the Greens and also offering them a place on my fence but decided that could be pushing my luck a bit far. They are a politically conservative bunch around my place. I know that because I've overheard the dulcet tones of Mike Hosking on ZB radio. Nice people really but political ignoramuses.
     • Mr Nobody 5.1.2

       25 September 2023 at 4:01 pm

       No desire of anything.

       I did wonder if it was possibly due to:

       A) the funding issue but that wouldn't explain the difference in numbers even when compared to smaller party's.

       B) Labour utilizing different modes of advertising which is possible I can say I seen significantly more or less of their adverts via other methods.

       C) Vandalism, not any specific evidence of Labour signs being targeted or anybody signs being significantly damaged (less than 5 from all parties combined which I was very surprised of).

       D) I did consider the possibility of passing through other parties strong holds but that answer doesn't seem to hold true when considering the number of other left leaning parties signs eg Green, Maori Party.

       Based from you explanation it seems it just is. Perhaps it is simple as Labour preferring to place their signage more in the "burbs" vs main traffic flows.

       I don't know but thought others here might be able to shed more light which you have done. Thank you.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2

     25 September 2023 at 11:50 am

     Overall Labour's hoardings were out numbered roughly by Greens 2:1, NZ First 1.5:1, Act 3:1, National 4:1.

     As AB wrote @5.1, best not to read too much into it imho. If the number of political party hoardings is indicative of voting patterns, then NAct have nothing to worry about, and they won't be needing NZF – although there seems to be some uncertainty?

     The ability of wealthy people to donate large sums creates a “huge obvious imbalance”, Rashbrooke said.

     Wealth inequality has eroded the resilience of Kiwi society almost beyond repair, and yet a few very wealthy Kiwis clearly feel they need to be wealthier still to be happy, and/or perhaps to feel safe and in control?
     Ah well, we reap what we sow

     https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/
     • Barfly 5.2.1

       25 September 2023 at 2:06 pm

       "yet a few very wealthy Kiwis clearly feel they need to be wealthier still to be happy"

       I personally suspect those Kiwis feel a need for other people to be poorer and will merrily contribute to those who will try to make it happen
       • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.1.1

         25 September 2023 at 2:55 pm

         Actively impoverishing Kiwis might be a motivating factor for some very wealthy individuals. I would hope, however, that for most this very real impoverishment is not uppermost in their minds, but rather is simply incidental to craving wealth beyond the dreams of avarice.

         One could always ask the very wealthy, but could you trust their answers?

         Richest NZers don’t pay their fair share – and Parliament can fix it
         [26 April 2023]
         “New Zealanders have long felt what has today been confirmed by Government research: our tax system is unfair. The wealthiest pay less than half the effective tax of the average family,” says Green Party revenue spokesperson Chlöe Swarbrick.

         Judging by NAct’s regressive tax/hoax policies, they can’t perceive the problem.

         The big money up against Parker [27 April 2023]
         However, Labour now has the opportunity to go into the election delivering tax reductions to middle and lower-income earners, which it pays for by nobbling high-net-worth individuals. But it will face a very well-financed National Party and its supporters in total opposition.
   • Mac1 5.3

     25 September 2023 at 12:23 pm

     When I was a candidate many elections ago, I put a 2.4×1.2 m sign (worth about $60 now) up in a rural corner, 10 metres onto a farmer's paddock plus a smaller one further up the road.

     As I was erecting the hoarding, a ute drove by with two men and a dog aboard. One of the men called out that the sign would not last long. It went overnight. The thieves had to trespass onto private property to take it. The hoarding would have cost $60 today. I had to travel 200kms to replace it!

     The smaller sign went as well and the fearful woman who gave me permission to erect it would not have it replaced as it too was on a private, rural property.

     Some lessons from this. Some rural dwellers are lawless, undemocratic, thieves and vandals, terrorising their neighbours. They have a real sense of intolerance and territorial 'rights'.

     But the biggest lesson was that, in the case of the ute mentioned above, the most intelligent animal hanging out its tongue on it rode on the tray of the ute.
     • bwaghorn 5.3.1

       25 September 2023 at 7:59 pm

       Some rural dwellers are lawless, undemocratic, thieves and vandals, terrorising their neighbours

       Recently in ohakune all the signs except te party moaris signs were vandalized!!
   • Catherine Bindon aka Rosie 5.4

     25 September 2023 at 2:23 pm

     Mr Nobody. I liked what AB said in regard to the Tory countryside. But for now, I will report on what I have noticed in our electorate of Ohariu. Something interesting has happened.

     Usually the split of Labour Vs National (but sadly hardly any Green) hoardings on private property is fairly even. You will get suburbs where one party will be more dominant. For instance Khandallah has more blue signage where as in Newlands you will see more red.

     This time, there is a thrilling absence of blue! This is the seat that Nicola Willis is trying to take from Greg O Connor.

     I have a Labour hoarding on my fence on a main road and we have more Labour hoardings in our neighbourhood than usual. There are less National hoardings in our neighbourhood and in general, around the electorate than usual. I have seen two ACT hoardings on private property and that hasn't happened before. Funnily enough they are on rather dilapidated sections. (Maybe they belong to the landlord?).

     That is what is happening here.
     • Mr Nobody 5.4.1

       25 September 2023 at 7:54 pm

       This wasn't just in the rural areas our count started just before Rotorua and right through the main route in town to the turn off towards Rotorua.

       In that stretch was the where we counted the majority of Labour hoardings (7). But to put in comparison one corner site had 5 National hoardings.

       Rotorua also had probably the biggest hoarding for the local Maori Candidate (don't remember their name sorry) but it was the size of a full sized advertising site (I'm guessing 2mx3m if not bigger) which looked awesome.

       Btw we counted:

       1 between Rotorua and Taupo

       1 between Taupo and Taurangi

       1 between Taurangi and Taihapi
   • Belladonna 5.5

     25 September 2023 at 4:32 pm

     We (inner suburb Auckland) have about equal numbers of National and Labour ones (including sharing the same fence, in a highly non-partisan approach by the owner). Very, very few Green. And only a couple of NZF. I think I might have seen one ACT one. Several from the very minor 'nutter' parties.

     I wonder if the smaller parties are saving their money. I truly doubt that election hoardings change anyone's mind…..
6. Chris 6

   25 September 2023 at 10:17 am

   Luxon says "New Zealand First hasn’t gone with National in 27 years – and could choose Labour again." Interesting he says that when he himself would prefer a two-party coalition, while Hipkins has ruled out forming a government with Peters.

   "Dear Chris,

   It's crunch time in this election campaign with overseas voting opening on Wednesday and advance voting opening next Monday.

   I’ve been on the campaign trail for three weeks and one thing is clear – Kiwis feel we’re heading in the wrong direction. I've lost count of the number of people who say to me – if you don’t win, I’m leaving.

   It's clear you want change. But to get change, you have to vote for change.

   Just ask yourself this: how will you feel if you wake up after the election and we have a Labour-Greens-Te Pāti Māori coalition set to take a wrecking ball to our economy? If that’s not the Government you want, then don’t leave it to chance.

   Please Party Vote National.

   This is really important because, every MMP election is tight and I expect the result to be extremely close this time too.

   Lots of people have been asking me about minor parties and how we might form a coalition government.
   So here’s the deal…

   First and foremost, if you want to change the government, please give your party vote National.

   Beyond that, my preference is to form a strong and stable two party coalition government between National and ACT.

   I believe that government would be in the best interests of New Zealanders at this very uncertain time.

   However, if New Zealand First is returned to Parliament, and I need to pick up the phone to Mr Peters to keep Labour and the Coalition of Chaos out, I will make that call.

   Frankly, I think Chris Hipkins will ultimately do exactly the same thing.

   That’s not my first preference but we all remember 2017.

   New Zealand First hasn’t gone with National in 27 years – and could choose Labour again.

   That decision is ultimately up to you.

   So, if you want to change the government, then I’m asking you to vote for change and choose a better New Zealand.

   I’m asking you to please Party Vote National.

   Thank you,
   Christopher Luxon"
   • Patricia Bremner 6.1

     25 September 2023 at 10:49 am

     The cracks in their credibility are starting to show. Going from "We have won this"…. to

     "Vote it is going to be close and I (gulp) might need Winston".

     Nicola's hand waving one liner on Q&A hasn't helped their case regarding modelling.

     Luxon walking away over and over from journalist questions on Policy holes is also a fail. Him indoors says, “Fast talking snake oil salesman”

     Bit by bit the veneer of credibility gets chipped away. 3 weeks is a banana skin.

     Those who are wavering, remember how the Nats sold social houses and other assets to wealthy marketeers in "the open market" last time, under their mantra of "The Market will fix it." We know how that went. imo.
     • Louis 6.1.1

       25 September 2023 at 4:46 pm

       Noticed that too Patricia.
   • Kat 6.2

     25 September 2023 at 1:07 pm

     "I've lost count of the number of people who say to me – if you don’t win, I’m leaving……."

     Lost count….this from the man who says he is "good with numbers"….and people are free to leave if they want to…..Muldoon had a brutal quip on that topic…..
   • SPC 6.3

     25 September 2023 at 1:09 pm

     Edited for accuracy.

     We can campaign in the centre and go further right after the election with ACT, if NACT have a majority.

     Where further right, we will neither confirm nor deny till after the election. Buyer beware.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 6.3.1

       25 September 2023 at 1:22 pm

       And for the gullible/protest voter, forget any "buyers..remorse" . Once NAct start the slashing, there will be…no holding back.
   • AB 6.4

     25 September 2023 at 2:57 pm

     I wonder what their internal polling is showing? Perhaps it shows ACT falling and NZF rising, making 61 seats for a pure NACT coalition a bit dicey.

     Either way, it looks like the "abomination combination" (NACT) or the "coalition of crackpots" (NACT First) unless Hipkins pulls a loaves and fishes act or turns water into sausage rolls.
   • Louis 6.5

     25 September 2023 at 4:44 pm

     Chris Hipkins has ruled out Winston Peters and will not ultimately do exactly the same thing.
   • Jim Cairns 6.6

     25 September 2023 at 6:50 pm

     I think NZ first said they would not work with Labour a long time ago .

     then HIPKIN said he would not work with them.

     so it was nz first that decided that they would not work with labour.

     Hipkin as usual no idea of his own just started the obvious.
7. Sabine 7

   25 September 2023 at 10:50 am

   The left still interested in that type of stuff or is that so 2016?

   https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2307/S00139/labour-breaks-a-new-record-in-child-poverty.htm

   Data released by the Ministry of Social Development shows that over 211,000 children are living in benefit dependent homes across New Zealand; the highest on record.
   • Anne 7.1

     25 September 2023 at 11:40 am

     Oh really…

     Sabine links to a National Party press release with enough holes in it… it could be used as a sieve. We already know how much integrity there is in National's accounting skills – zero. See Tax-cuts 2023.

     Pull the other one.
   • SPC 7.2

     25 September 2023 at 1:02 pm

     Well we do know the thinking of National is that being on a benefit and being in poverty is synonymous, because this has been National Party policy (since 1990-91).

     Labour has brought in a much higher level of part-time work income before benefit abatement, a higher base payment, the winter energy payment, and the food in schools programme and other free stuff – no school fees/health/dentist/prescriptions/public transport and is trying to boost the number of income related rental homes.
   • weka 7.3

     25 September 2023 at 3:43 pm

     “With benefit numbers forecast to rise even further as the recession bites, it’s likely more families will be pushed into benefit dependency in the coming months.

     National Party press release, lol. What do you think National's ideas are around getting people off benefits?
     • Barfly 7.3.1

       25 September 2023 at 6:36 pm

       "Work will set you free"
8. Anker 8

   25 September 2023 at 11:23 am

   https://www.speakupforwomen.nz/post/media-release-ministry-staff-told-don-t-use-male-or-penis-when-referring-to-male-lesbians?utm_campaign=45466310-4610-4758-a2bc-dbbe9bcb5db1&utm_source=so&utm_medium=mail&cid=7f4c8e0a-aa2a-44c1-9fc3-5db780e2856c

   A story about a whistle blower, Emma Barraclough, who worked for the Mof T. During a Diversity and Inclusion training she asked some questions about same sex attraction as she has a relative who is lesbian. Read what happened next (spoiler alert, it involved the Deputy CEO writing and meeting with her to chatise her.
   • bwaghorn 8.1

     25 September 2023 at 12:23 pm

     A lesbian with a penis!!!!

     Some needs to slap the people pushing this shit and tell them to wake the fuck up, fucking mind numbing ridiculous clap fuck trap,

     I'd go on but people might think I'm joking,

     Stupid fuckers
     • Roy Cartland 8.1.1

       25 September 2023 at 2:15 pm

       The lowest of the low brow humor used to say that as a joke.

       Man: "I think I might be lesbian too!" etc.

       Unfunny then, but now we're supposed to take it seriously, it's absurd.
9. Anker 9

   25 September 2023 at 11:32 am

   https://www.speakupforwomen.nz/post/the-day-insideout-came-to-the-ministry-of-transport?s=04&fbclid=IwAR1Nblg4f-TKGeA7k-uTSiRKXU1AANbIDeDte_OPz3em3VNmzLKOH_RMe6g

   This is Emma's the whistle blowers story in her own words. What happened with the Ministry of Transport held an Diversity and Inclusion training session and she used the term male bodied when asking if lesbians should accept transwomen into their dating pools.
   • bwaghorn 9.1

     25 September 2023 at 12:28 pm

     Go Emma, if the fuckers don't see sense move on no point surrounding yourself with stupid morons.
     • Anker 9.1.1

       25 September 2023 at 4:21 pm

       Agree Bwagon, but unfortunately this training is pervasive across the public service and beyond, (.NGOs and Professional Bodies).

       The fact that Emma respectfully challenged it, then the Deputy CEO wrote her a letter and followed this up with an hour long meeting to chastise her, is nothing but 1984
   • gsays 9.2

     25 September 2023 at 1:55 pm

     Thanks for the link, the situation described is bewildering.
   • Terry 9.3

     25 September 2023 at 4:51 pm

     It’s interesting when I catch up with people outside of the workplace, most people seem to think this is complete BS. Even my younger gay/bisexual nephew and his gender ambiguous friends think some of this stuff is weird…
     • Anker 9.3.1

       25 September 2023 at 6:53 pm

       That's because it is. but of course people are entitled to all sorts of beliefs. but why they are taught as part of a govt training module, which the tax payer pays for and why any dissent is shut down is the real scandal!
       • Visubversa 9.3.1.1

         25 September 2023 at 8:27 pm

         Remember this next time someone talks about those "marginalised and oppressed" trans and gender diverse people. We are being required to signify our acceptance of gender ideology in every facet of our dealings with the State.
10. Dennis Frank 10

    25 September 2023 at 2:39 pm

    Afficionados of the weird will like this story about ancient dead aliens found underground in Peru: https://edition.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/09/23/mexico-congress-alleged-alien-corpse-neil-degrasse-tyson-ebof-vpx.cnn

    Remains of supposed "non-human" beings were presented Tuesday to the Mexican Congress by a self-proclaimed UFO expert…

    The small mummified specimens that Maussan alleges are extraterrestrials were brought out in two glass display cases for lawmakers to observe.

    The hearing was to debate language on UAP in the Aerial Space Protection Law. If the language is approved, Mexico would become the first nation to formally acknowledge the presence of alien life ever existing on Earth, the Reuters news agency said, citing local media.

    …Mexico congressional hearing where a Mexican journalist showed purported mummified "alien corpses"… The bodies, he testified, were retrieved in 2017 from Cusco, Peru before radiocarbon dating revealed them to be up to 1,800 years old… https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/09/13/mexico-alien-x-ray-claims/70843076007/

    Sceptics counter-claim that this investigative journalist is doing a re-run of a similar claim in 2017 which the Peruvian govt said was fake. Conspiracy theorists will get off on that official verdict coming from their prosecutor's office instead of science!

    https://apnews.com/article/extraterrestrials-ufo-mexico-congress-af7d54fabf3278ef83c39d899c457c76
    • Barfly 10.1

      25 September 2023 at 2:59 pm

      I believe the spirit of the "Piltdown man" is alive and well

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piltdown_Man
      • Dennis Frank 10.1.1

        25 September 2023 at 3:46 pm

        I read a real good book about that years ago. A real eye-opener into how academic competition can warp judgments & morality.

        In this extra-terrestrial case, I thought the promoter looked dubious. He cited archeological dating yet the report did not include who did that – if it happened. Nor did it include the site of extraction details such as which archeologists did the dig.

        Otoh, none of those reports included evidential support for the sceptics either, so I have to rate the thing a nil-all draw…
11. observer 11

    25 September 2023 at 3:37 pm

    Around 60 women a year die from cervical cancer in NZ.

    Those who want to vote for a right-wing government, simply because any change is good, might want to reflect on which parties support screening, and which do not.

    (Note: "have a look at" is politician-speak for "kick the can down the road")

    Election 2023: National mulls free cervical cancer screening policy, Luxon says – NZ Herald
12. tsmithfield 12

    25 September 2023 at 4:40 pm

    I see Labour has promised to appoint a Minister of Just Transitions. That is sure to be a vote winner because I think everyone loves geek speek. I wonder who came up with the catchy title btw.
    • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1

      25 September 2023 at 5:26 pm

      The party [Labour] has also taken a swipe at National, saying its approach to climate change was tantamount to burying heads in the sand.

      NAct pollies burying their heads in sandbags perhaps – any new NAct Ministers promised, or just a slash and burn approach?

      Election 2023: Public service and KiwiSaver cuts propel Government to a larger surplus under ‘hypothetical’ Act budget [21 Sept 2023]
      What Act labels “demographic” ministries would be abolished. That means the Ministry for Women, Ministry of Māori Development, Office for Crown-Māori Relations, Ministry for Pacific Peoples, Ministry for Ethnic Communities, and the Human Rights Commission would all go.

      Interesting times.

      Climate change and the threat to civilization [6 October 2022]
      This example illustrates that climate collapse need not be determined by environmental factors alone: other causes, such as pre-existing political conflict and incompetent government, may be crucial.

      Dim bulb-Brownlee was incandescent with rage about 'nanny state' energy-efficient lighting. The well-being of spaceship Earth – our only home – isn't a NAct priority.

      National vows to go back to drawing board on policy [3 May 2023]
      “I am here to get things done, I am sick of inactions, and I make no apology for that,” Luxon said.

      “It’s a case of slower to go faster. We have more coming out [on the ETS]. It’s a watch this space.”

      Real Solutions for the Environment and the Climate
      ACT will introduce a no-nonsense climate change plan which ties our carbon price to that of our trading partners.

      ACT was the only party to oppose the Zero Carbon Act.

      "It’s a case of slower to go faster." Sounds ponderous – back to the drawing board?

      National’s climate pledge a joke

      National have promised to:

      • Defund the entire climate change work programme, across government, in order to fund tax cuts
      • Restart fossil fuel exploration and extraction
      • Delay agricultural emissions pricing by another half a decade
      • Cancel the successful Clean Car Discount that is driving massive adoption of EVs around the country
      • Cancel support for industries that are switching from fossil fuels to renewable energy

      Thank NAct for the gift of laughter.
      • Belladonna 12.1.1

        25 September 2023 at 8:35 pm

        IDK – perhaps we should thank Labour for the gift of laughter – "Minister of Just Transitions" seems pretty risible to me.
        • Drowsy M. Kram 12.1.1.1

          25 September 2023 at 11:01 pm

          Cabinet Secretary for Transport, Net Zero and Just Transition
          The twin crises of climate change and biodiversity loss are global challenges of unprecedented proportions. Tackling them is the collective fight of our lifetime, with implications for all the generations to come.

          "Minister of Just Transitions" seems pretty risible to me.

          "Pretty risible" – pourquoi? Genuinely curious.

          Just transitions bring people together to transform disruptive change into positive change.
          The concept of ‘just transitions’ emerged decades ago from North American unions concerned about job losses from environmental policies affecting polluting industries. This evolved into a call from the international labour movement for a just transition towards an environmentally sustainable economy that is well managed and contributes to the goals of decent work for all, social inclusion and the eradication of poverty,

          Just transitions have expanded to include dimensions of social, economic, environmental, climate and intergenerational justice. This idea is now part of international policy commitments which have been taken by most of the world’s nations, including Aotearoa New Zealand.

          We live in increasingly interesting times – overshoot BAU is unsustainable. Mitigation and adaptation through just transitions will be the name of the 'game', and governments will have a role – unless they leave their run too late.

          Just Transition Greens
          The Just Transition Greens are a cross-party group that want to bring together workers, communities, employers and government agencies, and ensure that the move towards a climate-proofed economy happens as quickly and as fairly as possible.

          A just transition: towards low-carbon economies and lifestyles

          The Need for a Just Transition

          NZ commits to a just transition

          Climate justice: The challenge of achieving a ‘just transition’ in agriculture [6 October 2021]

          Risible, or forward-focused initiatives? Hopefully there'll be time to tell.

          One thing's for sure, no way any govt position with 'just' in its name would survive a regressive ACT-level cull – this would be some 'transition'.

          Election 2023: Public service and KiwiSaver cuts propel Government to a larger surplus under ‘hypothetical’ Act budget [21 Sept 2023]
          What Act labels “demographic” ministries would be abolished. That means the Ministry for Women, Ministry of Māori Development, Office for Crown-Māori Relations, Ministry for Pacific Peoples, Ministry for Ethnic Communities, and the Human Rights Commission would all go.
    • Anne 12.2

      25 September 2023 at 7:02 pm

      Good grief, I have to agree with you there ts. What a dreadful name. I gather it means – in large part – the transition to renewable energies. Well, call it that: the Ministry for Renewable Energies – MRE for short.
      • tsmithfield 12.2.1

        25 September 2023 at 8:08 pm

        Yeah. It sort of sounds like something to do with gender reassignment lol. And, isn't it along the lines of what James Shaw is already doing? So, it seems a bit superfluous to me.
13. Ffloyd 13

    25 September 2023 at 5:37 pm

    Does Luxons calling first dibs on NZF mean that possibly their internal polling are tanking? Whiff of desperation there methinks. Also would like to add that when asked about his honesty Luxon replies with obligatory American showing of teeth that he was 100% honest. Possibly paraphrasing but what he did say. Isn’t that a big fat lie? Just asking.
14. Ffloyd 14

    25 September 2023 at 5:50 pm

    Ooohhh…. sirjohnkey is on Lisa owens. Begs the question …Why? I wonder if she will get Jacinda on. Fundamentally he would rule Winnie in. Yadayadayada.But. Slippery as usual. Omg. What a waste of time. Luxon is a friend. Yada Yada. Still a wanker. Needs a listen to. Why do they keep dredging up the worst prime minister NZ has ever had ?
    • Anne 14.1

      25 September 2023 at 7:07 pm

      Nah Ffloyd. that titles goes to RD Muldoon.

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