…. the lifespan of a beef cow on a feedlot is decided by two metrics: how fast we can fatten them up, and how long their body can survive the process.
This is, ethically speaking, fucked up. And most people don’t even know it’s going on in New Zealand.
The government has signalled they will step in by the first quarter of next year to provide national guidance to councils on feedlots. In the Herald, Rachel Stewart warns “a storm’” of animal cruelty allegations is coming.
Fish and Game last night released footage of cows udder-deep in mud, struggling to walk around a saturated South Island farm. A recent rise in intensive winter grazing has been met with increasing damage to waterways and animal welfare, the group said.
….Fish and Game executive Martin Taylor said the rise of intensive winter grazing has had immediate environmental impact.
“Fish and Game has been watching this practice and what we have seen is deeply disturbing. You can see animals knee deep in mud and dirty water, with sediment washing unchecked into nearby waterways,” he said. “This mud washes into drains, streams and rivers, choking the environment and smothering insect and plant life.”
….New Zealand Veterinary Association chief veterinary officer Helen Beattie said cows in these conditions are at increased risk of lameness and mastitis, and are unable to exhibit natural behaviour like lying down to chew cud – a crucial part of rumination.
….Fish and Game says local councils are complicit in the continued degradation of lakes and waterways
“Unsightly plumes of discoloured water can be seen billowing downstream from winter feeding sites, yet the councils responsible for monitoring seem to be turning a blind eye to the damage being caused,” Taylor said.
“Some councils like Southland are using their so-called environmental plans to make it even easier for farmers to use this destructive practice.”
Thanks to Kirsty Johnston for uncovering this monstrous practice.
This barbaric………
Pregnant cows ‘suffering’ for calf blood industry
Heavily pregnant cows are being slaughtered and the blood drained from their unborn calves’ hearts to be sold for export – where it’s used to produce vaccines and fake meat.
While the practice is legal, an industry whistleblower says it frequently causes unnecessary suffering, as the pregnant cows are confined in trucks or left standing for long periods.
The Herald on Sunday’s source, who did not want to be named to protect their job, said while some farmers may legitimately have miscalculated a cow’s pregnancy, others were acting out of greed.
” Some will leave the cow pregnant as long as possible to get a bigger foetus to get more blood, to get more money,” the insider said.
“And that cow has already given her life to produce milk, I just don’t see how they justify it. I think it’s an appalling practice.”
…Until now, the industry has gone largely under the radar. The Herald on Sunday’s source decided to come forward in the wake of the mycoplasma bovis outbreak, accusing farmers who said they didn’t want to kill pregnant cattle of being hypocritical.
Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere, a senior law lecturer in the field of animal law and welfare, said there was no necessity to impregnate cows that were going to die.
” One has to consider that we’re not talking about non-sentient beings. We’re talking about animals that can feel pain and distress, and also have the capacity to feel positive emotions,” he said.
“That seems to be lost in the most graphic of ways here. We’re treating the cow as it’s seen in the law as a commodity – butjust because law recognises that as being acceptable doesn’t make it morally acceptable.”
I should have clarified , I’m not a fan of deliberately getting cows in calf to kill or waiting till they are right on the drop to send them . We send plenty of in calf cows to slaughter for ligitamate reasons
So the sum of the arguments made thus far against three horrific examples of animal abuse are:
1. Some people like eating meat.
2. It’s never going to change. People have always eaten meat.
3. People will lose their jobs.
4 You are too black and white about issues.
5. Your message is too blunt.
Let’s look at slavery in the eighteenth century.
Some people liked having slaves.
Many people said it couldn’t change.
It was argued that jobs in the cotton factories would disappear.
Heavily pregnant cows are being slaughtered and the blood drained from their unborn calves’ hearts to be sold for export – where it’s used to produce vaccines and fake meat.
You’re equating the collection of animal byproducts to the millions, including members of my own family, who suffered the most terrible deprivations and died in forced labour camps, you POS.
I am deliberately comparing the systematic torture, degradation and slaughter of sentient beings.
To quote Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere, a senior law lecturer in the field of animal law and welfare, on the matter.
” One has to consider that we’re not talking about non-sentient beings. We’re talking about animals that can feel pain and distress, and also have the capacity to feel positive emotions,” he said.
Slow down Joe 90. We are all helpless animals at times, it isn’t awful to consider both human animal and field animal suffering. It actually is an indication of reaching higher sensitivity and respect for all of us.
You don’t have a point. You have a sanctimonious, rotating grievance schedule of whatever issue of the month that you happen latch yourself on to, and then you spam the bejesus out of it.
He actually does far more damage than good with his over the top black and white approach. I was involved in the animal welfare/animal rights area on a voluntary basis for several decades and even some of the hardcore animal rightists cringe at the type of approach Ed uses. I still totally support getting rid of any form of animal cruelty etc but react quite the opposite to Ed’s dictatorial one dimensional lectures.
Ditto I have many highly qualified friends in the professional drug and alcohol counselling field. When I showed a couple of them Ed’s comments last Sunday, they had apoplexy as his approach is the exact opposite to the approaches that are proven to get results in that area. I actually wonder about his age – maturitywise rather than physical – as most people reach the realisation that the real world is not black and white but has many shades of grey by their late teens/early 20s.
…his approach is the exact opposite to the approaches that are proven to get results in that area.
So if Ed’s “shock, horror” approach doesn’t work what will to get people to acknowledge the inherent cruelty of breeding animals, often in inhumane conditions, so they can be slaughtered so humans can choose to eat animal flesh.
It’s a serious question.
What do your friends say does work in drug and alcohol counselling?
I’m genuinely interested because I was in a cafe this morning ordering a flat white (non-dairy of course) and looked in the food cabinet to find two vegetarian options (one being the ubiquitous, imagination-free frittata) while several other options had bacon in them when they would have been fine without it.
Why? Consumer expectation and habit I guess. So many people seem to think they haven’t eaten food unless it has meat in it.
More then a thousand families in my community rely directly on the meat processing industry for their livelihoods and occasionally, I’ve relied on the industry myself.
Over the years I’ve got to know lots of skilled and unskilled people who work at the plants and despite being a laborious, uncomfortable and at times, rather unpleasant job working for the likes of Talleys, they’re proud of their work and most give an actual fuck about the animals they’re processing.
They’re the ones attending to the animals welfare by using holding, herding, kill and stunning methods accurately, doing the huge days to get them through plants in a timely manner and following delays and breakdowns, doing the early calls and unscheduled OT
The folk operating the knock box are the ones reporting broken tails and the those doing the evisceration are reporting parasites and animal health and the bunging, singing, and pelting crews are the ones reporting udder and hock injuries.
And I’ve heard of breakdown saw operators reporting bruised, maltreated carcasses, too.
That’s not to say it’s all sweetness and light in the meat industry and that there aren’t some dodgy AF farming practices.
But rather than harangue, lecture, and threaten livelihoods, newly minted sensitives souls like Eddie have realise that despite their sentient being shtick, the meat industry is here to stay and if they give a rat’s arse about animal welfare, begin advocating for better practices.
Still can’t see relevant reply buttons (on two different browsers) so this one is for James lower down in the thread because I’ve restrained myself for long enough:
Most people eat meat
So f…n what? It doesn’t make it right.
Do you ever stop and consider for a second that the small, quiet voice might be the voice of reason, the voice of mercy, the voice of justice?
Or do you never hear it?
Far easier to come on hear and say “I love beef”. I was waiting for you and sure enough you appeared. And you accuse Ed of being a broken record.
I agree.
Most people do eat meat.
However, I very much doubt that most people realise how their meat is processed.
The stories about feedlots, the killing of pregnant cows and other horror stories will mean more people will stop believing the fantasy they are told about animal farming.
The Reply button seems to be inconsistent today so this is for Joe 90.
But rather than harangue, lecture, and threaten livelihoods, newly minted sensitives souls like Eddie have realise that despite their sentient being shtick, the meat industry is here to stay and if they give a rat’s arse about animal welfare, begin advocating for better practices.
Ah, no. The meat industry is here to stay? Good luck with that.
There is some huge cognitive dissonance going here Joe with someone who is concerned about how an animal was treated before they kill it. You sound like James.
Killing less cruelly is still killing. Humans do not have to eat meat to survive and if we didn’t, a huge number of other sentient beings with whom we share this planet would not have to die in distress. Or they would simply not be bred as food for humans in the first place.
Do you think even sheep with their more limited intelligence don’t know what’s going to happen to them as they are pushed up the race? I’m sure they smell it in the air.
And as for pigs, they would have an even better idea.
And don’t think I haven’t experienced the reality. Many years ago in another life I worked in a freezing works. Interesting we called them “freezing works” not killing sheds, although they are referred to as slaughterhouses. Nowadays they are referred to as meat processing plants. Call them what they are I say.
I was lucky I guess to work in the freezers but at times we went up to the top floor to see how the frozen carcasses got to us and I know it’s not pretty.
But despite my misgivings about Ed’s approach when I watch some of those clips I cry – literally. Because I know it’s wrong.
@David Mac
Do you actually have an argument in defence of feedlots and other horrific examples of animal cruelty exposed in the past 3 weeks – or is your contribution just to join in the name calling led by joe90 and James?
Ed, I don’t really want to get into a conversation about wolves with someone that comes running down the hill every morning shrieking ‘Wolves’. I think you’re obsessed and incapable of entertaining anything resembling a balanced view Ed.
@David Mac
What is a ‘balanced view’ on feedlots?
What is a ‘balanced view’ on killing pregnant cows?
What is a ‘balanced view’ on the industrialised killing and torture of 65 billion animals?
Oh give us a break Ed. This isn’t meant to be a soapbox for endless stuff from anyone. Make your point then shut up. Stop hitting us over the head with your superior ideals. You are becoming a troll. Are you in the USA did you say in one of your comments? Related to Trump perhaps?
There’s a pack of ravioli in the freezer that kinda had tonight’s dinner written on it. With tomato sauce, olives, capers, maybe some artichoke hearts.
But after those videos I’m in the mood for something with a bit more protein and texture. Burgerfuel’s special for this month with a couple of thin-sliced steaks is looking mighty appetizing rightabout now.
I’m very unlikely to get any more cats after I needed to call time on my dear old buddy, at least until I move somewhere where cat-like creatures are part of the local ecosystem. Because Gareth Morgan actually happens to be mostly right on the topic of cats in NZs natural places.
But if Gareth Morgan happened to be my neighbour, I’d be absolutely sure to get a couple more. Can you possibly think why, and how that applies to the way you present your views here?
Waitatapia Station, west of Bulls, bring cattle down from the central plateau to overwintering feedlots to keep them dry and warm and feed them locally cropped fodder.
The thread I started was about feedlots, winter grazing and killing pregnant cows.
The purpose was to highlight some of the cruellest practices going on in the industrial farming model.
If the feedlots near Bulls have the same environmental impact and treat cows like 5 Star do,yes it is an abomination.
Do you approve of the industrial farming model as highlighted by the 3 stories I highlighted?
It is pointless debating here. Real truth from you Ed. Go somewhere else and enlighten them.
Ed gives an example of why I think that there should be a stop on any one thread of say five comments. If a person can’t make his or her point in that time then they are just a waste of space.
BTW Ed, the burger I ended up getting was really gooooood. An absolutely delightful combination of the holy trinity of well-done beef mince, bacon, and cheese, with some extra trimmings you wouldn’t want to know about.
Thanks for inspiring me out of my last few days of meat-free eating to go get it.
A tenant story I have heard. The tenant knew that the owners wanted to return and take possession of the house later in the year and was waiting for advice giving a period in which to search for another rental.
Recently a phone call was received asking were they ready to be shift out so that occupation could be taken up in a week. Apparently an email had been sent months ago and hadn’t been seen by the tenant. The tenant looked through the various folders but no record of any message. In the end an extra week was allowed. But what a shock and upset to be so near to being homeless, and with children and furniture to have shelter for.
The point here reinforces my own feeling, that turning away from paper to the ephemeral world of the net, is going to be a huge disadvantage to communication.
Both systems are helpful, and using both will be wise. Perhaps a letter with a follow-up internet confirmation, or vice versa. It would have been a great thing for this tenant to have received a confirmation in the mail.
The good news is that with a little time off work, and a short search on the internet and a bit of travelling by car, a new place that is rather small but suitable for about a year was found. Big relief. But the stress for people unable to get time off work, to have public transport at suitable times and then time to tramp the streets to visit the advertised offerings for suitability, the shifting of furniture, the final cleaning to the required level for bond return, as well as looking after the children, thinking also about school and how to access it.
A big burden. Can we decide to love all our families in NZ please, and give them much more support that they can call on when needed?
The point here reinforces my own feeling, that turning away from paper to the ephemeral world of the net, is going to be a huge disadvantage to communication.
Wrong.
Shifting to digital will improve communication. Email can even force a reply.
Paper takes longer, costs more and can simply get lost.
It would have been a great thing for this tenant to have received a confirmation in the mail.
No, they should have had an agreed date for the end of the lease.
Dunno what you mean by email being able to “force a reply”. Request read-receipt can be declined.
Personally my feeling is that unless the service is documented officially (and who’s to know if an email went to an unchecked or wrong address), the end of lease doesn’t count.
In the world of Captain Hindsight, the landlord should have called the tenant and confirmed the receipt of the notice.
Seems you’re wanting an alternative to the use of covered feed pads to extend pasture rotation, control nutrient run off, effluent and leachate, manage soil structure, and during/after wet conditions, prevent pasture damage, reduce the pugging of paddocks and prevent lameness/mastitis, manage animal health and nutrition, and keep the damned beasties warm and dry.
Simon Bridges has blamed the Labour Party for Leaking his disgusting over expenditure of Tax Payers money in his cocky little jaunt through New Zealand.
Even though he already knew that was not the case.
Why do the Leaders of national lie about virtually everything. Housing crises; they lie about the Poverty affecting thousands of kiwis; lie about the so called Drug abuse of kiwi youth who apply for jobs; Lies lies Lies
Simon, like Paula, like Sir John Key, like Sir Billy English – is ignoring reality and tarring himself with the same outrageous dishonesty that defines the National Party and its followers.
It is an utter shame that nearly 42% of our Parliament is totally untrustworthy. Not only incompetent – but deliberately slippery and crooked.
Robert Fisk: Israel is building another 1,000 homes on Palestinian land and nobody is saying anything
In the week that Uri Avnery, the scourge of colonialism, died in Tel Aviv, the Israeli government announced a further enlargement of its massive colonial project in the occupied West Bank. Plans were now advanced, it said on Wednesday, for a further 1,000 “homes” in Jewish “settlements” – still the word we must use for such acts of land theft – and final approval had been given for another 382. Today, 600,000 Jewish Israelis live in about 140 colonies constructed on land belonging to another people, the Palestinians, either in the West Bank or east Jerusalem.
There is a state of normalcy about all this, the world’s last colonial conflict; a weariness with the figures, a lacklustre response to the huge construction enterprise on Palestinian territory. Charting the spread of red roofs across the hilltops of the West Bank, the swimming pools and the lawns and smart roadways, the supermarkets and orchards – all encircled by acres of barbed wire and now also by the grotesque Wall – has become not so much a “story” for us reporters covering the Middle East, but a tired routine, a tally, a scorecard of land theft, a tale to be updated with each new “settlement” announcement and subsequent protest from Palestinians whose land is taken from them, and from the woeful and corrupt Palestinian Authority. The same is true of the small Israeli activist and leftist groups – B’Tselem, for example and Avnery’s own Gush Shalom – who have bravely fought on, when even Israel stopped listening, to tell the truth of this unique form of aggression.
Never in the field of human rights has so much been owed by so many, to so few.
Great to see our PM continuing the the Key tradition of post match locker room hobnobbing with a professional sports team who exploits the occasion to plea for ( more) corporate welfare $$$ from an already pressured new government.
This bit… ‘”I said (Steve Hanson) to Grant Robertson they should be our biggest sponsors because we’re their biggest brand, and could she find some money to help us compete against the likes of England and France to help us keep our players. So there wasn’t a lot said after that.”
Seriously, footage of Ardern in the locker room should have come with a trigger alert for those of us still traumatized by such images of Key similarly fawning over these well paid sports people.
Though I guess is noteworthy in these times that such professionals have actually done their job to an acceptable standard.
Had another chuckle, re national this week when our local weekly paper came out. A wonderful photo on the front page, of our Motueka protest for the teachers strike.
Was so happy our local rag didn’t crop my sign….hehehehe…. you’ll have a giggle when you see it, it’s hard to miss… Lmao 🙂 It’s the sign in the middle with a ‘blue logo’ 😉
national party supporters are going to lose their minds about her being in the AB’s locker room.
Last years election win is the gift that keep on giving 🙂 loving it.
Hehe.. never heard comments from the players like this when key was grandstanding….
Hurricanes players Perenara and Ardie Savea and Chiefs midfielder Anton Lienert-Brown gave Ardern a kiss after the on-field presentation, with Perenara later telling the media of his gift:
“She’s special to my family and to my community so that’s something that was important for me to do.”
Congrats to the AB’s last nights game was outstanding.
The Black Ferns/Wallaroo game was much more exciting.
Both teams played with enthusiasm, competency and flair.
The win to the recently professionalised Black Ferns was richly deserved.
I confess to having dozed off in the first half of the men’s game…despite the raucous company at the RSA.
Hey Rosemary, they didn’t show the Black Ferns game on Prime, as far as I know 🙁 Hope you had a great night out, RSA is a fantastic venue for watching sport, lucky lady 🙂
Didn’t catch the first half of the AB’s.
I’ve a long standing date at 8:30pm on Saturday nights…. addicted to The Listening Post 🙂 Excellent episode this week.
They showed the Black Ferns game on prim AFTER the ABs match, even though the women’s match was played first. It was getting to be past my bed time, having been up fairly early for work yesterday.
I only watched the beginning of the women’s match, and having recorded it, was planning to watch the rest today (thanks, Rosemary, now I know who won before I watched it 😁)
Anyway, I’m with Rosemary in that I’m not happy about a Labour-led government following the Nats’ PR strategy of locker room attendance, and related photo ops.
The thing I did pick up at the beginning of the recording of the women’s game, which showed the latter part of the cup presentation, was seeing Robertson lurking in the background. (I usually switch off the recording immediately a match ends)
I think Ardern’s media presentation does have a lot to do with Ardern’s personal style. However, I have also wondered how much Robertson was in the background providing guidance. Media presentation is in his realm of past experience. And he is also a big Union fan.
I had hoped that locker room PM attendance, and celebrity PM stuff, would have gone with Key. But it seems Ardern’s government is continuing this aspect of the neoliberal consensus, at the point when neoliberalism is passing its end date.
I DO think the PM of the day should attend the matches, by sitting in the stands, in support of teams representing NZ. However, the celebrity locker room stuff does not fit with left wing values, IMO.
To call a PM visit to the All Black locker room an example of “neoliberal consensus” is truly ridiculous.
Sure, it was not done in the past, but that is because our society is more informal with more social media these days. Not neoliberalism.
Modern PM’s are much more popular media driven than was the case, and the personalities who get the role reflect that. Evident with both Key and Ardern. Both are very different to Bolger or Clark, to take their precursor PM’s from both parties.
The PM does after all have a degree in communications, so she knows exactly what popular expectations are. Most people will like the fact that she visited the guys in the dressing room. Another way of demonstrating her connectedness.
Sure, it was not done in the past, but that is because our society is more informal with more social media these days. Not neoliberalism.
It’s a mixture of both neoliberalism, and the current state of communications technologies. The form social media, and media has taken in recent times, has been strongly guided, even at times controlled, by neoliberal principles.
And the end result is the likes of Donald Trump gaining a very powerful political position, and current concerns about “fake news”. There’s too much spin and propaganda influencing voters, and this is very bad for democracy.
So, we get some political leaders who are a bit nicer than Trump, or John key e.g. Obama and Ardern, but it does not fix the deep-seated structural problems, and it is a cause for concern about the future of democracy.
Jacinda was not only in the All Blacks locker room but also at the earlier Black Ferns match and in the locker room with the team. Earlier in the day she had spoken at the first NZ Rugby Women In Governance conference and made some pretty strong statements on the need for greater equality in the support etc of women’s rugby to that of men’s rugby.
That is a ‘first’ for those many people who have been smarting at the male domination of the sport and related money distribution for many years. I really hope Ardern’s locker room attendance at both matches is seen in light of her statements in the morning and will not go amiss with too many people.
I must say, at the point when I switched off the recording, I had thought the Black ferns were the likely winners as they seemed head and shoulders above the Wallaroos.
(I record the Prime matches, and wait about 20 minutes after the game starts showing before watching, so I can FF through the ads).
Key was like an alien presence in the All Blacks’ dressing room. I suspect he was foisted on them by that horrible old Steve Hansen and that cheat non-pareil Richie McCaw.
This from New Zealand (reserve) Halfback TJ Perenara. “The values that she (Jacinda Ardern) stands by, and my family’s always been strong Labour and I’m proud to be strong Labour as well.” Its a rare thing to hear an All Black endorse the Labour party-especially a current player. (I believe Graeme Thorne and Tony Steel were All Blacks that were part of the National Party-even MP’s-at one stage.) I think Chris Laidlaw-former AB halfback-was part of the Labour Party once upon a time. https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/tj-perenara-gave-all-blacks-jersey-jacinda-ardern-after-last-nights-test-before-snapping-photo-together
Hes in a professional game with an amateur mindset, there’s nothing stopping him from selecting overseas All Blacks players earning tons of other peoples money.
Well, nothing but the NZRFU policy of selecting NZ based players to avoid the absurdity of privately owned, northern hemisphere clubs influencing national selection.
Football seems to have sorted that out many moons ago. The best players play for the best clubs and still get to represent their country. Rugby is amateur in that respect.
Nah. Even age group teams have trouble getting players released by their clubs.
Twelve of the 28 players initially invited to a pre-tournament camp his week are not present – eight by choice, two due to injury, and two because their professional clubs wouldn’t release them
Rosemary, I did not see either of the two matches yesterday but late last night I did read a number of media reports on the the two matches. Jacinda Ardern attended both matches – AND also a conference earlier in the day, the first ever Women in Governance conference.
At that conference she made some very relevant comments about rugby, reported by several media.
From the RadioNZ report (almost all of it):
Rugby needs to be more inclusive, particularly of women, to be fully deserving of the title of New Zealand’s national sport, the Prime Minister says.
Talking to a packed conference room at New Zealand Rugby’s first ever Women in Governance Conference in central Auckland this morning, Jacinda Ardern said rugby needs to “be a game for everyone, and that includes women”.
“For me if rugby is going to include us as women it should represent us equally, and have a relationship with us equally, both as players and spectators, and that means, as it does with every area of life, including women fairly, giving women the opportunity to excel, paying them appropriately, and providing leadership opportunities,” Ms Ardern said.
Ms Ardern said, when asked for clarification, she believed rugby does currently deserve to be called New Zealand’s national sport, ” but with that title we need to make sure we’re striving to lift the outcomes for women in sport as well”.
She was at the conference, articulating her vision for sporting gender equality, ahead of the Black Ferns and All Blacks double header against Australia at Eden Park tonight.
She called on rugby to use its “power, influence and reach” to promote inclusiveness of and respect for women across New Zealand – not just in sport – and said she hoped for a day when women’s sport was just called sport.
“[The Black Ferns] are incredible rugby players, they are incredible athletes, they are not incredible women rugby players, they are not incredible women athletes, they are just incredible rugby players and athletes,” Ms Ardern said.
In my view, I doubt that Ardern will give in to more money going the All Blacks’ way. If anything, she may well use her power to lever a much more equal distribution of any government money towards the Black Ferns. I understand that in the past Grant Robertson has also expressed similar views to the PM’s re the equality issue in relation to rugby.
In a lighter vein the Black Ferns doing a haka for Ardern.
An excerpt: NZR Chair Brent Impey said: “The objective was to bring together women who hold governance roles across rugby to create a strong network of Directors and support the growth of more women in governance and leadership roles across rugby in New Zealand.”
“The Board has prioritised diversity as part of its sucession planning and has already made important strategic commitments to women’s rugby including the appointment of former Black Ferns captain Dr Farah Palmer to the NZR Board, the appointment of NZR Head of Women’s Rugby Cate Sexton, increased funding for the women’s game, an historic first agreement that introduced professional contracts for Black Ferns, and a bid to host the 2021 Women’s Rugby World Cup.”
Additional actions taken to date to grow the diversity at a governance level in rugby include the implementation of the Diversity Report, three women are now seconded onto NZR Board sub-committees, the Constitution has been changed to ensure at least one female is a member of the Board Appointments Panel, and the number of appointed board positions has increased from three to six.
NZR Board Member Farah Palmer said: “NZR is committed to gender equity and is actively supporting the growth of women and girls through the Women’s Rugby Strategy.
It’s also interesting that RNZ seems to have been the main media platform where that has been reported, while Stuff focused on Ardern at the ABs. It is dangerous to be playing the cooperate media game, albeit, trying to skew it in a different direction. I would rather see a whole different approach, away from neoliberal style propaganda, to an approach that fits more with left wing values.
Women’s rugby has also been getting increasing coverage in the media, and now Prime seems to be showing their matches. When I set up to record the Black Ferns last night, was given the option to record the whole series of Black Ferns matches. This seems to be a new initiative from Prime.
But also, I recall a public talk I attended recently by an Auckland Uni professor of politics (Jennifer Curtin), about Ardern’s representation and style as PM. The biggest take-away I got from the talk was in the area of policy. It’s something that’s going on a bit below the radar, and Ardern’s initiatives around women’s rugby fits with that.
Apparently Ardern is requiring that all new policies and legislation include a gender component – ie include a report on how women’s concerns can be addressed with the policy/legislation.
I will be interested to see more of how this works out. I’d also like to see something similar with respect to income and wealth inequalities included with all policies.
Carolyn I only did a quick search so did not necessarily pick up all items on JA’s attendance at the conference or at the Black Ferns match, but RNZ was not the only one to report the earlier engagements. There were more – eg TVNZ. Did see a photo of Jacinda with Kendra Cocksedge and Lorde after the BF game but that seems to have disappeared. There seem to be more media reports on the All Blacks game. As an aside, a pretty full Saturday for JA yesterday.
I actually worked for a short time on a cross-government policy project with JA years ago when she was a fresh greenhorn in Helen Clark’s office and I was very impressed (as a much older woman) and convinced that she would eventually make it to where she is now. I just did not want to see it too soon, but I am really noticing her growing in the role.
The approaches you mention in relation to policy are well in line with the depth and breadth of her thinking etc that I saw back then and I am sure that we will see her expand these requirements for consideration of gender to other inequalities such as income, wealth, disabilities. It may not be quick enough for some here and elsewhere but she also showed maturity back then – and does now imo – in realising that Rome was not built in a day and often mistakes, backlash etc can come with doing too much, too quickly.
I was impressed with her statements etc re Curran on Friday and understand why she did not pull the plug completely at that time. There is an urgent review now underway into the appointment process for the CTO position Handley has applied for, and I suspect that if there is any hint whatsoever that Curran has muddied that, the hammer will fall again. There is a lot of steel in the Ardern psyche as well as compassion, equality etc. She is playing it careful on a lot of fronts in the situation.
I do understand that policy development is a a major strength of Ardern. However, i am still not clear on her underlying left wing values, or whether she is a soft neoliberal like Robertson. I would like to see Ardern ditch Robertson as one of her key advisors.
But also, I am concerned that Curran still has the media portfolio. It seems to indicate that Ardern (and probably Robertson, too) don’t see the re-vitalisation of public service media as being urgent. And to me that is a major problem.
But I will be watching where the policy and legislation direction goes with this government. It would be very good if it turned out Ardern is strongly left wing, and not a soft neoliberal centrist.
Carolyn, I do see where you are coming from. But you also need to understand where Ardern is coming from and who are her besties within the Labour caucus/Cabinet.
Her besties are Grant Robertson and Chris Hipkins, both of whom came into the parliamentary area of Labour with the common link between the three being Helen Clark. MS is probably much more knowledgeable of the relationships than I am. So I do not see her ditching Robertson – or Hipkins – as advisors.
Re Curran, I have seen claims that Ardern and Curran have been flatmates in Wellington. I have no idea if this is correct but as I said at 5.5.1.1.1 I believe that Ardern is being a little cautious for employment law and other legal reasons so that if she has to pull the plug completely she is covered legally in doing so. As I said, I think she is quite capable of doing so.
I can report that the women’s game commanded just as much attention from the cosmopolitan company at the FFN RSA last night as did the blokes’ game.
Being an earlier game the volume of ale consumed was low, and the informal commentary as a result was enthuastic and respectful.
Not do much for the later showcase game, as the ‘arm wrestling’ in the first half led the assemblage to resort to discussing the Australian prime ministeral shennanigans.
No booing from the RSA when Ardern went on the field to congratulate the Black Ferns.
The bumptious, barely articulate Greg Newbold stinks up the airwaves. The Panel, RNZ National, Wednesday 22 August 2018,
Jim Mora, Joe Bennett, Rebekah White, Emil Donovan
First topic for today’s program: the Crime and Justice Summit. Serious topic, and one which attracts some thoughtful and brilliant minds. Professor Greg Newbold was what Mora likes to call “the talent” in this discussion…..
JIM MORA: Andrew Little’s Crime and Justice, uh, Summit looks, ah, set to recommend have fewer people in prison, you would infer, and the pulling of other levers, as the Prime Minister puts it, to both keep New Zealanders safe and better treat and rehabilitate those behind bars. And as we’ve discussed before, doing both at the same time will be the trick. But, Panelists, you are all for this?
REBEKAH WHITE: I really—
JOE BENNETT: All for what?
REBEKAH WHITE: You go, Joe.
JOE BENNETT: No sorry, I just want to clarify, what am I “all for”?
JIM MORA: Okay. All for both the extra rehabilitative approach and getting prison numbers down.
REBEKAH WHITE: Sounds great in theory. How do you DO that?
JIM MORA: Yes, we do ask that as well.
REBEKAH WHITE: Ha ha ha.
JOE BENNETT: Heh, heh, heh, heh….
MORA: Joe, do you have an opinion on it?
JOE BENNETT:Ummm. I’m no criminologist. It’s, it’s, it’s very hard, isn’t it. Ummmm, the, I remember going to a prison once, visiting a prison, ahem, Christchurch Men’s Prison, um, for, with regards to some columns that I had written, and I went there a couple of times. And it was an appalling place. Ummm, just the bottled testosterone there, it bristled, it was, it was, you felt soiled and horrible and horrid to be there, and you couldn’t imagine that it was rehabilitative. Ah, but I remember the Governor there saying to me, and he had far more reason to know than I would, he said that only two things rehabilitated the inmates in his prison, and one was they got God, and the other one was they got the love of a good woman. And I throw that out there for what it’s worth, I can’t verify it, I can’t vindicate it, but he sounded as though he knew what he was talking about.
MORA: Memorable.
JOE BENNETT: Mmmm.
MORA: Memorable. Criminologist, uh, Professor Greg Newbold isn’t at the Summit. We’ll seek his views on it shortly, but first actually we want to ask him something else from a listener. Greg, good afternoon.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Hi. G’day.
MORA: Here’s the question for you, ahh, first up, uh. “Jim, at this summit are lots of people with all sorts of ideas on how to reduce recidivism. Lots of them make a living from this sector. Has anyone sat down and asked the criminals and prisoners what their ideas are as to what would motivate them to change their behavior and their lives? Is there any research like this?” asks Chris Malcolm. Greg, what’s the answer? What do prisoners want, what do they think will work?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Aww, they wanna get outa jail. Mo– heh!— mosta them, ahhm, they would come up with ideas, they’re not criminologists, I mean, I was in jail myself, as you know—
MORA: Mmmm.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: —for five and a half years, and um, awww, everybody had different ideas about what they’d do when they got out. The problem was that a lot of guys in prison say, when they’re in jail, they say, Ohhh, I’ve ruined my life, I shouldn’ta done this and I shouldn’ta done that, and when I get out I’m not going to make the same mistake, and then they get out and make the same mistake. You got 86 per cent recidivism in New Zealand over five years. So, ahhhhmmm, y’know, what prisoners say and what they actually do are two different things.
JOE BENNETT: Can I ask a question?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah. Please.
JOE BENNETT: Is there anywhere in the world which has, say, half that recidivism rate?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Ah, no, not that I know of. The United States has got pretty much the same as us. Ummm, we’ve got a pretty high recidivism rate, I’ll tell you, the United States is around seventy-FIVE per cent—
JOE BENNETT: What about Scandinavian countries?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah I mean people talk about Sweden and so on but you never see any real data from it. I went to a prison in Sweden once, and it was a pretty nice jail, but you know, you’ve got a different social situation and a different demographic makeup over there, so you can’t compare them. You’ve got to compare apples with apples.
MORA: When you were IN jail—
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Mmm.
MORA: —did you get an inkling of, if not what they wanted when they got out, which was to get out, but of what they needed, Greg, of what other fellow inmates needed to make them, ah, better citizens afterwards?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Ahhhh, not really, um. Most of the guys—I was in maximum security for most of my time—most of the guys up there had had horrific backgrounds, really terrible family backgrounds and childhoods, and that’s where the problem lay. A lot of them were very damaged before they came to prison and had histories of offending going back to when they were in school, absenteeism, neglectful parenting, abusive parenting, no parenting at all in some cases, and when you have a kid who’s been brought up in those circumstances, you’ve got a person who’s very very difficult to do anything with. It’s a problem which begins in childhood and is very difficult to turn around in adulthood. Quite often these guys wake up once they reach their forties and fifties, but between that age of seventeen to, say, 35 to 40 they can be pretty dangerous and pretty crazy.
MORA: And I know there are intentions, I’m sure they were voiced at the summit today and yesterday, about turning it round far earlier on in life, and that’s been discussed a lot.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah.
MORA: Anzac Wallace, at the Summit yesterday: “If we are 52 per cent of the prison population”—meaning Maori—“why aren’t we 52 per cent of the people speaking?” Is he right, that we need the Maori voice louder here, Greg?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Well it’s no good just having—just ’cause you’re a MAORI on, uh, on, on crime or prisons. Ahhhhmmm, so I don’t think, uh, ahh, ahh, y’know, there’ll be Maoris at that thing that have got backgrounds, but ah, um, it, that’s not going to solve a problem, having a whole lotta people speaking who don’t know what they’re talking about. Um, you got seven hundred people there, and most of them won’t have any real background in criminology or corrections at all, they’ll just be people who’ve got nothing better to do for two days.
JOE BENNETT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: And you’ll have a big talk fest there, and everyone will come up with their own personal plans and bright ideas, but it’s not really going to make any difference.
JOE BENNETT: If you were Minister of Corrections what would you do?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: This isn’t the first one, there’ve been heaps of these bloody summits in the past. The reason I’m not there is that I’ve been to so many, and that’s all they are, talk fests, and so I didn’t bother going, I’ve got better things to do.
MORA: Were you invited, out of interest?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah yeah, I was invited to, uh, to, uh, apply to go up, which was essentially an invitation to go there, but I didn’t respond to it because I thought it would be a waste of time.
JOE BENNETT: Can I ask a question? Greg, if you were suddenly appointed Minister of Corrections today, what would you do?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: I’d start building prisons.
MORA: Seriously?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: I’d build a, I’d stop, uh, double bunking, and um, I’d set up a program for inmates who self-identify. A lot of prisoners aren’t really that interested in reforming, and I mean, where Maori are concerned, for example, 70 per cent are gang affiliated. Well, if you’re gang affiliated, um, then, uh, your chances of actually going on to a crime-free lifestyle when you get out are pretty limited. So I’d get guys who self-identify, who want to get out of gangs and don’t wanna go to jail, and I’d make things available to THEM, and the others I’d say, well get on with your lag and get out and good luck to you when you get out.
MORA: One obvious question, and I mean, I don’t really want to get into the Scandinavian model again today, because we’ve talked about it a bit on the Panel but there ARE places overseas, and countries overseas, with lower recidivism rates than ours and, getting back to the original question that Chris asked about getting into the minds of prisoners, and it was interesting to hear your viewpoint on that, and also what Anzac Wallace said, uh, isn’t it necessary to get better acquainted with the minds of Maori prisoners if we’re going to get that terrifically high number of people in prison down?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Y-y-yeah, well they talk about the Maori mind, Corrections talk about it. I don’t think Maoris have got different minds than Pakehas, quite frankly. I know lots of Maoris, they don’t think any differently to me, I was in jail with them, we all thought the same. I don’t think there’s such a thing as a Maori mind. And, ummmm, as far as that, you know, these recidivist rates, you can’t compare them internationally because they don’t ha—, there’s no standard measure for recidivism. They have different criteria and different follow-up periods, and unless you have the same follow-up period and the same criteria, you can’t compare different countries with their recidivist rates because you’re comparing apples with pears.
MORA: So you’re saying that when we hear about the success of individual overseas rehabilitative treatments, and someone says we’ve got the recidivism rate down from 49 per cent to seven per cent and measured that—
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah, well they’re—BLOODY rubbish, absolute rubbish. AB-solute bloody nonsense. You look at that, you could look, I guarantee you, you give me that, that report and I’ll have a look at it, and I’ll find all the flaws in it. RUBBISH.
MORA: Heeeee-e-e-e! [chortling] We’ll assemble them all and present them for your, um, perusal! Ha ha!
JOE BENNETT: Ha ha!
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah yeah, give me—
MORA: Okay—
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: I’ll critique the bloody lot.
MORA: So you think nothing works. I mean, people are sending in ideas on the text, uh, “a low rate in Utah of recidivism, where prisoners are adopted by families.—Paul.” I mean, we hear all the time if you can connect prisoners with whanau for example more efficiently in prison, they are far less likely to go back to prison, so I mean, there’s a lot of pretty impressive anecdotage about this Greg.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah it is, it’s all anecdotal, that’s all it is. You could get, y’know, I mean, they talk about, they talk about strengthening family ties, Christ, most of the guys in jail come from GANGS. If you, if you, heh heh, if you strengthen family ties, specially whanau ties with Maori, all you’re strengthening is the GANG association. So, um, y’know, ya gotta be pretty careful about what you’re talking about with your, with your, ahhm, when you, when you talk about strengthening whanau [chortling] whanau links. A lot of them come from intergenerational crime families [chortling]
MORA: Well the same applies—
REBEKAH WHITE: You go.
MORA: Sorry Rebekah, I was just going to say the same applies to intergenerational Pakeha crime families you would think.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, it does. It does, it does. And they—
MORA: Rebekah you were going to say something.
REBEKAH WHITE: Go.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: But the Maori problem is particularly bad because whereas about 30 per cent of all inmates have gang association, where Maori’s concerned it’s SEVENTY per cent. It’s a HUGE problem.
REBEKAH WHITE: So going back to those families and those associations, is there research around what kind of interventions are successful at, um, correcting the course of life that someone might be on?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Can you repeat that please?
REBEKAH WHITE: So is there research around what kinds of interventions can be, um, carried out?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah there’s a whole lot of Canadian—
REBEKAH WHITE: What are the most effective ones?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yes there’s a whole lot of Canadians which have done this very complicated regression analysis and they’ve got these programs which they say work. See, the problem is that most programs, and Integrated Centre Management, which we adopted in New Zealand in 2002, tried to emulate it. But the problem is: most of these programs that work take place in highly structured laboratory type situations where they’re fully resourced, they’ve got specialist Ph.D.-qualified people applying them, and they do have some effect on some people. But you can’t apply that across the board in a prison population of a hundred—where you’ve got ten thousand five hundred people in prison.
REBEKAH WHITE: So we haven’t researched this in New Zealand?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, they TRIED it, they tried it with Integrated Centre Management, they tried to apply it. But they couldn’t apply it in the real world context. It’s okay to apply these things in a laboratory context but if you try and apply them in the real world they don’t work ‘cos you don’t have the resources. Unless you’re going to spend millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars, ahhhmm, you’re not going to succeed in these things. So you’ve gotta be realistic about it. In New Zealand the Integrated Centre Management program didn’t alter recidivism rates one bit.
MORA: It’s interesting hearing the contrarian voice on this, from outside the Summit, as it were, Greg, but you’re painting a pretty grim picture of a New Zealand where our only successful strategy will be to build the mega-prison and lock more people away.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah, well I think you’ve gotta, we’ve gotta improve prison conditions. I mean you can’t even HOPE to get the kinds of achievements, the kinds of outcomes that are desired if you’ve got people crowded up in multi-cell situations. I’m writing to a bloke at the moment who’s doing a degree at the private prison in Wiri and he’s having a hell of a lot of trouble studying because he’s got a cell-mate who wants to play the guitar all the time, while he’s trying to study. You know, if you’ve got, you do get people in prison who really do wanna get out and they’re taking realistic steps to stop themselves from reoffending, but if they’re stuck in an environment where achieving their goals is impossible, then they’re bashing their head against a wall.
MORA: All right, understood, and thanks for your—
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: We’ve gotta create good prisons, with plenty of room and well resourced, and the first thing you need to do is start building capacity.
MORA: All right. Professor Greg Newbold, thank you for joining us today on The Panel.
Greg N was always a bit of a priveledged right winger @ Morrissey.
He probably should have spent his time studying gender and sexuality (not that he’s let his schooling interfere with his education in that regard).
He has however been through a bit of near death experience in recent times. So I imagine that has made him even more grumpy towards his former peers who’ve not managed to make as much good as he has.
I wouldn’t be surprised if an acceptable solution (in Greg’s mind) to recidivism would be to pump prisoners regularly with a dose of oestrogen
Can back that up Cinny sorry to pop your ballon there was clearly booing Really who cares rugby as the national game and its fans span across the political spectrum, Just enjoy the game for what it is
I was in my local, a big sports bar. When the PM was on screen one of the kitchen staff grabbed another by the arm and pointed to the screen and yelled ‘Look, Jacinda!’
If a few sad Tories in the crowd booed, it’s says nothing about how the rest of the country feels about Jacinda Ardern.
I’ve been to more football games than YOU, I would bet. I wasn’t there last night, no, but I know that most people there would have cheered for her. As everyone else here has attested, there was no audible booing for her, but there was applause for her.
So there were a few National-voting drones and boors sitting near you—that’s your problem.
I was there and she was definitely booed, not to Len Brown or Jk standards late in his last term but definitely audible undertone of booing, sorry if any balloons popped
Nup not that exercised about Jacinda. Actually quite like her just not her politics Rugby fans span across the political spectrum. I find trying to claim a political victory from it fkn rediculous. It’s just Just fact there was no booing for jacinda at black ferns presentation but definitely booing but also cheering at ab presentation Most of it is light hearted so no need to get to exercised about it I also think it’s mostly about politics intruding into a national past time than any thing else
And ed I doubt you ever watched a game of rugby in your life so with respect dear Fuck off back to your lentil patch and Galloway cat porn
By the way Ed before game enjoyed a hearty few beers a big fat juicy steak 😀
We wonder if he has abandoned his support for Deep South lynch law….
NOELLE McCARTHY: Now you have something about this Florida verdict, and Juror B-37?
…A long, rambling discussion ensues, with most of the participants clearly disgusted with the verdict. But not everyone….
CHRIS TROTTER:[very slowly, mustering all the pomp and gravitas he can] I think all this talk about the jury is most unfortunate. You have, even in this case I think, to trust the jury. In any trial, there are always items of evidence that we do not know about, even in this case I think.
….Long, extremely uncomfortable pause….
NOELLE McCARTHY:[doggedly positive] One thing the whole world is talking about, Zoe Ferguson, is the royal birth!
I have no idea what the fuck is going on in Trotter’s head these days. It seems he is absolutely convinced that there is some sort of bogeyman called “middle New Zealand” that is utterly reactionary, vindictive and constitutes some sort of impassive and monolithic electoral majority.
Trotter is an ideological coward who is terrified at the thought of any reform that might upset his imaginary bogeyman who has crossed over to the territory occupied by out of touch and fearful old men.
Sanctuary
You don’t like Chris thinking about hard, uncaring middle NZ. Sounds like you might turn into one of their advocates.
And same goes for Morrissey
This blog shouldn’t be a place of attack on people who are airing the thinking of different groups in a way that you don’t agree with. Chris opens up subjects to discussion from differing viewpoints and should not be chastised for it. I don’t agree with all he says. But it is good to look at his opinions and have the right to disagree. I found this sort of carpet bombing when discussing anything that related to rape culture here.
Just lay off the vicious attack stuff please. It doesn’t help in the effort to understand the mindsets of major players in our present society.
Christ the number of comments claiming schools must pay staff sub-acceptable wages are depressing.
I especially liked that the school thought about it enough to setup how cleaners and janitorial staff could be included in that (by taking the cleaning contractor out of the picture). Of course the cleaning contractor would never have paid the living wage.
“I especially liked that the school thought about it enough to setup how cleaners and janitorial staff could be included in that (by taking the cleaning contractor out of the picture).”
Perhaps it will be something we will see other schools emulate.
If the Government genuinely supported the Living Wage, no Government related (directly or indirectly) contract/tender would be considered unless companies vying for them paid a living wage.
I was thrilled when the new government moved quickly to lift the closure hammer from over the head of the school last December, and this news of the new direct-access pathway to enrolment should make things so much easier for families and lead to more eligible students being able to access this very special school.
Yes great news Cinny – so close to being sent down the road. Good, practical help to young females, such a good resource with experienced, caring people.
Loves Trump, hates POC, feminists, reproductive autonomy, and LGBTI folk, eugenicist, reckons the juntas of the past were the bomb, on a mission from Dog to save the country from socialism, and he could be Brazil’s next President.
On the wall of Jair Bolsonaro’s office in a modernist annex of Brazil’s Congress hang five faded black-and-white portraits. They are memoirs of a time many Brazilians would prefer to forget, when military generals ruled the country from 1964 until 1985 and the cost of insurrection was kidnap, torture and secret execution.
Bolsonaro, the de facto front runner for the Brazilian presidential election that begins on Oct. 7, is the foremost apologist for that era. He has made a career eulogizing its abuses and–for a decade after the return of democracy in 1989–calling for its reinstatement. Today he is proud of his support of the regime he served as an army captain.
He has spiritual and humane thinking and also looks at how to bring these into policies and practices that take Maori out of the valley they are in to heights of personal achievement and satisfaction.
I came to the Black Power as an act of community service.
I had trained to be a priest and was imbued with the whole Paolo Friere South American liberation theology, social justice, worker-priest, servant-leader thing. When I presented myself at the door of the whare of the Black Power they accepted me unconditionally even though I am Pakeha. I experienced a sense of belonging, whanau, and unconditional love. I didn’t stop being anything – a son to my parents, brother to my siblings, a member of my faith, a Treaty partner, a committed New Zealander. Mind you, later, it has cost my whanau dearly in terms of being labelled and having suffered prejudicial treatment by officers of the Crown, especially the police.
The greatest myth about gang life is that it’s all about crime. I can’t talk about all gangs but for the Maori gangs it is essentially an association that creates a sense of whanau as an antidote to social alienation….
True leadership is a contextual concept and within that a behaviour. Take a natural exemplar, the kuaka or bartailed godwit, which at this very time of the year, is contemplating a long flight, in a flock, from Aotearoa back to China and the Siberian steppes. The lead bird, the kahukura, takes the brunt of the wind, but the dynamics of the overlapping wings in the flowing formation creates an updraught and the leader is buoyed.
That’s a lovely notion that leadership is defined by followship, and the act of followship creates an uplift. After a time the kahukura drops back and another takes its place. So this intimates that we all have a responsibility at times to lead and at others to follow. As humans we all have feet of clay so I won’t curse someone by identifying them as a living embodiment of leadership but, as his spirit is still around us, could I nominate the late Dr Ranginui Walker as a kahukura exemplar?
On the NZ Edge blog Denis has put up a few items of importance each year.
There is a memoriam on the death of friend Ranga Tuhi. He was an artist and carver and this link shows some of his work.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoD_1PLGTLQ
Sadly you’re not ready to learn – that’s a question you should ask yourself – why the self sabotage? When you remember the answer come back for the second lesson. Let go of ego – you know you can – remember?
Indeed we are. Most of us get out of the “pretentious pseudo-gnostic arse” stage of the journey by our early twenties.
I remember stoners saying “red pill or blue pill” and “there is no spoon” when the movie was first released. Must be a retro movie that pretentious hipster teen stoners watch these days lol
Oney you have much to learn – sorta remind me of a much younger me – ha – the road will not rise until you fall – get it now? You seem a bit stuck on this – try your breathing exercises after all that’s what they are there for. Focus on the rise and fall – hopefully things will move for you now – keep at it.
I have written many critical things over the years about @SenJohnMcCain; you can easily find them. But not in this thread. Instead, I wanted to share a few observations of possible interest that I’ve accumulated over the years following this fascinating American character. 1/— Matt Welch (@MattWelch) August 25, 2018
He also disagreed with people without painting them as evil or whatever. He could agree to disagree, without treating the other person or the issue flippantly.
He was a conservative, but not to the point of being corruptly partisan. And he had gravity and dignity.
I wouldn’t want to be exactly like him, but he did have a few qualities we can’t go too far wrong cultivating in ourselves or our leaders.
I agree McFlock, unlike many from his side he didn’t seem primarily motivated by the $. I believe in his own way he was out to create a better world and if we all felt that way, regardless of our political stripe, we’d end up with something half decent.
Any radical can convince those who already agree with them; the mark of a truly effective politician is persuading those who might normally oppose you.
But some of it is a bit harsh – he didn’t just “not go along with the worst” of the anti-Obama stuff, he publicly opposed it. A Republican having an interest in foreign policy is quite exceptional these days. Putting more troops into Iraq initially might have actually enabled them to maintain order and stop the decay into sectarian violence (although there were many other issues, not just numbers. The yanks had the mindset to win the war, but winning the peace wasn’t ever on their radar).
But, yeah – he wasn’t all good. He was a conservative, after all.
Shame I liked John, for a right wing politician he was always gave us a bit of a giggle. He did bring us the laugh factory that was Sarah Palin. And his attacks by trump were at times, priceless in their comedic effect.
For my dear friend Morrissey and other conspiracy theorist on Venezuela and socialism from the economist
“Mr Maduro says this is the fault of “imperialist” powers like America, which are waging “economic war” on Venezuela. In fact, the catastrophe is caused by the crackpot socialism introduced by Hugo Chávez and continued by Mr Maduro after Chávez’s death in 2013. Expropriations and price controls have undermined private firms, depressing production. Corruption has subverted the state. Mismanagement of PDVSA, the state-owned oil company, has caused oil output to drop by half since 2014. Just as the regime has asphyxiated democracy, by rigging elections and governing without reference to the opposition-controlled legislature, so it has strangled the economy”
John Key couldn’t of saved Venezuela. Chavez chucked Maduro a hospital pass and up and died.
What we’re seeing in Venezuela is not a model of left vs right politics. It a tragic scene brought on by fairweather loaning greedy men with scant regard for the future or their responsibilities.
People like this come from all walks of life. No matter if it’s a politician milking a cash cow until it’s dead or a BOP orchardist hiring a gang of Tongan slaves. Assholes come in all colours.
Tend to agree David Mac but Venezuela never less is one of a long list of countries who have applied socialism in regard to nationalisation of the means of production that has led to misery and gross human rights abuse I do agree adopting socialist policies but maintaining a capitalist economy is a different story But surely now any pretext to full on socialism, communism is totally discredited but some in nz and on this site incredibly still back it
Not sure RT acolyte is a step up on so called corporate media I gave it 10 minutes just got silly capitalism this, neo liberalism that ( yawn) I believe The Economist has more credibility as an independent voice
I think we’re essentially socialists here in NZ bewildered. In it’s rawest form: I believe in you and what is important to you and in return you do the same for me.
Nice.
I think this has come about for a wide range of reasons. Starting with trying to scratch out livings in land that belonged to people that quite liked eating us. Moving on to the lording mine owners with sensational British Navy purchase orders that wanted to create a little Britain on the westcoast.
We’ve got plenty of reasons to have socialist roots.
I think the left have lost their way a bit….I’m old, I pine for the old days….You used to be able to tell you were meeting a man from the left from the callouses in his handshake, these days leftishness is determined with the speed that a racist can be identified.
I think being left is about aspiring to see a fair go for everyone. Far from what we see in Venezuela and I think it’s an aspiration most Kiwis would subscribe to.
“Conspiracy theorist”? That’s exactly what that dolt Key and his doltish cronies called Nicky Hager.
I presume you will provide something to support your claim that I am a conspiracy theorist. If you fail to do so, you have furnished us with yet more evidence that you do not have a clue about anything.
Thought provoking stuff, as ever , from Craig Murray.
“Air transport is simply far too cheap for the damage it causes and the resources it consumes. You cannot cause more damage to the Earth’s atmosphere with £30 worth of resources, than by buying a £30 Ryanair ticket to Barcelona. If you spend that £30 on fuel for your diesel car, or on coal and burn it in your garden, you will not come close to the damage caused by your share of emissions on that Ryanair flight.
The fundamental reason air travel has expanded to be so harmful is the international understanding that tax and duty is not charged on aviation fuel – unlike vehicle, train or maritime fuel. Even citizens of Saudi Arabia or Venezuela no longer can access fuel as cheaply as you do in effect when you fly.
….The question has become mixed with notions of democratisation of leisure. This should be tackled head on. There is no human right to go by air and have a sun soaked holiday on the Med dirt cheap. The Earth cannot afford to indulge the pollution caused by massive air tourism. The unpopularity of saying this means that few people in politics ever do, but it is nonetheless true. In view of climate change, for the public to expect Ryanair fare levels is obscene.
Mass air travel for leisure needs to be stopped. Maritime, rail and other more eco-friendly means of international communication need to be encouraged. As mankind has not even the political will to tackle these most straightforward of measures on climate change, I really do begin to despair for the future.”
The person spending their £30 Barcelona ticket money on diesel for their car may well be creating way fewer nasties but their drive is going to fall way short of Ibiza.
I like our Pacific Islands, I like visiting them. I’d sail there.
Last time in the UK I was passing through. The bus transfer, Heathrow to Luton, about 35 kms? was 22 pounds. The Easyjet flight to Amsterdam was 16 pounds.
I can’t think of anything that has been less subjected to inflation than air travel. I went to Sydney with some mates in the late 70’s. For us to go again tomorrow, the tickets are about the same price. If air travel had been subjected to the same inflationary forces as houses, taxi rides, beer, shoes and speedboats it would cost us $20k to get to Sydney and back.
According to Mr Google, London to Barcelona air and road is about the same distance and a short haul Airbus A319Neo would burn 1.93 L/100 km/passenger.
VOLKSWAGEN Golf Estate diesel would burn around 5 L/100 km.
Good evening The Am Show Myanmar should be shamed into treating there people with humane care 2 wrongs don’t make it right San Suu Kyi has to be pressured into see reality that the world does not like the way people.
I think we should give some support to the AllBlacks we have to compete with nations that have huge audiences couch has seen the money on offer for our players getting out of hand .
That’s the problem in Amecia the goverment has to protect its people before its business interest.
Ka kite ano P,S one reason one should have good manners with that ladys interdict with Nassa
Here you go 1 million electric cars sold in Europe ka pai Norway know’s a good thing when they see it clean cheap to run low maintenance electric vehicles link is below ka kite ano
Muppetissey I warned your sandfly m8 that every time they throw there lies and corruption at Eco Maori it will burn there—— and what I have said has come true you and the sandflies are out of your League so shooo away ana to kai
Good evening Newshub If some one is cutting hole’s in my waka and causing a massif leaks I would find the person and throw them out and that’s what Simon is doing .
That’s real shocking what’s happening in Myanmar these people who are causing this un humane disaster should sort there —– and help there tangata whenua out.
That dental trainee campus in Auckland that will provide half price dental care is awesome many thanks to Otago university.
Yes I believe that te mokopuna’s time on computers should be moderated and controlled they need sleep so they can learn at school I would buy learning games for my tamariki half of them did not work my tamariki are all competent computer users now thought .
Well said Ted Ka kite ano
The Crowd Goes Wild James & Mulls You are correct Mulls Lisa is one of the greatest athlete’s of Aotearoa ka pai.
Australia need to revamp the local Rugby game copy others embrace there tangata whenua players is what I say they should do I have heard that its hard to find a Rugby Union competition in some places.
You know your long in the tooth when te tangata are retiring and they are the same age as ones tamiriki ka pai Simon.
All the best to the Tuatara .
Should have known you are a Westie James Ka kite ano
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
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Dan Rowe nails it.
To read his brilliant article, click here.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/food/23-08-2018/why-you-should-give-a-damn-about-feedlots/
Bring on the lab meat alternatives.
Even more animal cruelty.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/food/24-08-2018/action-promised-on-intensive-farming-after-distressing-images-released/
And even more.
Thanks to Kirsty Johnston for uncovering this monstrous practice.
This barbaric………
Read the whole article here.
And do something!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12113527
Scum.
“”Some will leave the cow pregnant as long as possible to get a bigger foetus to get more blood, to get more money,” the insider said.”
I m not a fan of killing pregnant cows and I noted they use foetal blood for the fake meat industry.
I saw that.
I don’t eat fake meat.
Odds are yourself, or one of your own has benefited from diagnose using bovine foetal serum in laboratory cultures, too.
I should have clarified , I’m not a fan of deliberately getting cows in calf to kill or waiting till they are right on the drop to send them . We send plenty of in calf cows to slaughter for ligitamate reasons
So the sum of the arguments made thus far against three horrific examples of animal abuse are:
1. Some people like eating meat.
2. It’s never going to change. People have always eaten meat.
3. People will lose their jobs.
4 You are too black and white about issues.
5. Your message is too blunt.
Let’s look at slavery in the eighteenth century.
Some people liked having slaves.
Many people said it couldn’t change.
It was argued that jobs in the cotton factories would disappear.
And slavery was abolished.
Well not this lab meat.
Heavily pregnant cows are being slaughtered and the blood drained from their unborn calves’ hearts to be sold for export – where it’s used to produce vaccines and fake meat.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12113527
The gulag is being exposed.
You’re equating the collection of animal byproducts to the millions, including members of my own family, who suffered the most terrible deprivations and died in forced labour camps, you POS.
Go fuck yourself.
I am deliberately comparing the systematic torture, degradation and slaughter of sentient beings.
To quote Marcelo Rodriguez Ferrere, a senior law lecturer in the field of animal law and welfare, on the matter.
” One has to consider that we’re not talking about non-sentient beings. We’re talking about animals that can feel pain and distress, and also have the capacity to feel positive emotions,” he said.
Slow down Joe 90. We are all helpless animals at times, it isn’t awful to consider both human animal and field animal suffering. It actually is an indication of reaching higher sensitivity and respect for all of us.
Exactly my point.
You devalue your argument. You’re a wanker for bringing that in especially as you’re a born again vegan.
You don’t have a point. You have a sanctimonious, rotating grievance schedule of whatever issue of the month that you happen latch yourself on to, and then you spam the bejesus out of it.
He actually does far more damage than good with his over the top black and white approach. I was involved in the animal welfare/animal rights area on a voluntary basis for several decades and even some of the hardcore animal rightists cringe at the type of approach Ed uses. I still totally support getting rid of any form of animal cruelty etc but react quite the opposite to Ed’s dictatorial one dimensional lectures.
Ditto I have many highly qualified friends in the professional drug and alcohol counselling field. When I showed a couple of them Ed’s comments last Sunday, they had apoplexy as his approach is the exact opposite to the approaches that are proven to get results in that area. I actually wonder about his age – maturitywise rather than physical – as most people reach the realisation that the real world is not black and white but has many shades of grey by their late teens/early 20s.
…his approach is the exact opposite to the approaches that are proven to get results in that area.
So if Ed’s “shock, horror” approach doesn’t work what will to get people to acknowledge the inherent cruelty of breeding animals, often in inhumane conditions, so they can be slaughtered so humans can choose to eat animal flesh.
It’s a serious question.
What do your friends say does work in drug and alcohol counselling?
I’m genuinely interested because I was in a cafe this morning ordering a flat white (non-dairy of course) and looked in the food cabinet to find two vegetarian options (one being the ubiquitous, imagination-free frittata) while several other options had bacon in them when they would have been fine without it.
Why? Consumer expectation and habit I guess. So many people seem to think they haven’t eaten food unless it has meat in it.
Dude’s clueless.
More then a thousand families in my community rely directly on the meat processing industry for their livelihoods and occasionally, I’ve relied on the industry myself.
Over the years I’ve got to know lots of skilled and unskilled people who work at the plants and despite being a laborious, uncomfortable and at times, rather unpleasant job working for the likes of Talleys, they’re proud of their work and most give an actual fuck about the animals they’re processing.
They’re the ones attending to the animals welfare by using holding, herding, kill and stunning methods accurately, doing the huge days to get them through plants in a timely manner and following delays and breakdowns, doing the early calls and unscheduled OT
The folk operating the knock box are the ones reporting broken tails and the those doing the evisceration are reporting parasites and animal health and the bunging, singing, and pelting crews are the ones reporting udder and hock injuries.
And I’ve heard of breakdown saw operators reporting bruised, maltreated carcasses, too.
That’s not to say it’s all sweetness and light in the meat industry and that there aren’t some dodgy AF farming practices.
But rather than harangue, lecture, and threaten livelihoods, newly minted sensitives souls like Eddie have realise that despite their sentient being shtick, the meat industry is here to stay and if they give a rat’s arse about animal welfare, begin advocating for better practices.
What is grey about industrial factory farming like this?
Still can’t see relevant reply buttons (on two different browsers) so this one is for James lower down in the thread because I’ve restrained myself for long enough:
Most people eat meat
So f…n what? It doesn’t make it right.
Do you ever stop and consider for a second that the small, quiet voice might be the voice of reason, the voice of mercy, the voice of justice?
Or do you never hear it?
Far easier to come on hear and say “I love beef”. I was waiting for you and sure enough you appeared. And you accuse Ed of being a broken record.
You come over a real bully boy in your manner, joe.
I will not be silenced by your abusive tone.
People once said slavery was ‘there to stay.’
People argued that they’d lose jobs if slavery went.
Thanks to the courage of people like William Wilberforce it was abolished.
Oh look, Eddie thinks he’s the Willy Wilberforce of his day.
Conceited twit.
I love beef – although don’t eat as much as I used to – I prefer pork and chicken.
However the beef I do eat is with homekill for first light farms – they put out an amazing product.
It would be nice if you could debate the issue and not attack the messenger.
Your bullying style is abhorrent to many.
There are significant issues with the industrial farming in New Zealand
Feedlots.
Winter grazing.
The killing of pregnant cows for profit.
Most people eat meat.
You are the ones who attacks people and their morals because they eat meat.
What is an issue for you might not be an issue for the majority.
But you are like a broken record.
Who are these many?
I agree.
Most people do eat meat.
However, I very much doubt that most people realise how their meat is processed.
The stories about feedlots, the killing of pregnant cows and other horror stories will mean more people will stop believing the fantasy they are told about animal farming.
You make a lot of assumptions that people are ignorant of facts if they think different to you.
People are still going to eat meat and enjoy it.
Roll on bbq season.
The Reply button seems to be inconsistent today so this is for Joe 90.
But rather than harangue, lecture, and threaten livelihoods, newly minted sensitives souls like Eddie have realise that despite their sentient being shtick, the meat industry is here to stay and if they give a rat’s arse about animal welfare, begin advocating for better practices.
Ah, no. The meat industry is here to stay? Good luck with that.
There is some huge cognitive dissonance going here Joe with someone who is concerned about how an animal was treated before they kill it. You sound like James.
Killing less cruelly is still killing. Humans do not have to eat meat to survive and if we didn’t, a huge number of other sentient beings with whom we share this planet would not have to die in distress. Or they would simply not be bred as food for humans in the first place.
Do you think even sheep with their more limited intelligence don’t know what’s going to happen to them as they are pushed up the race? I’m sure they smell it in the air.
And as for pigs, they would have an even better idea.
And don’t think I haven’t experienced the reality. Many years ago in another life I worked in a freezing works. Interesting we called them “freezing works” not killing sheds, although they are referred to as slaughterhouses. Nowadays they are referred to as meat processing plants. Call them what they are I say.
I was lucky I guess to work in the freezers but at times we went up to the top floor to see how the frozen carcasses got to us and I know it’s not pretty.
But despite my misgivings about Ed’s approach when I watch some of those clips I cry – literally. Because I know it’s wrong.
How do you spot a vegan at a party?
Just wait, they’ll tell you.
To James
It is clear many people had no idea about feedlots in NZ from Checkpoint’s coverage.
@David Mac
Do you actually have an argument in defence of feedlots and other horrific examples of animal cruelty exposed in the past 3 weeks – or is your contribution just to join in the name calling led by joe90 and James?
Ed, I don’t really want to get into a conversation about wolves with someone that comes running down the hill every morning shrieking ‘Wolves’. I think you’re obsessed and incapable of entertaining anything resembling a balanced view Ed.
Does your poo smell?
@David Mac
What is a ‘balanced view’ on feedlots?
What is a ‘balanced view’ on killing pregnant cows?
What is a ‘balanced view’ on the industrialised killing and torture of 65 billion animals?
Oh give us a break Ed. This isn’t meant to be a soapbox for endless stuff from anyone. Make your point then shut up. Stop hitting us over the head with your superior ideals. You are becoming a troll. Are you in the USA did you say in one of your comments? Related to Trump perhaps?
GW
Leave the insults out of it..as you request others to do…
Are you ok?…your comments are becoming increasingly angry by your previous measures..
There’s a pack of ravioli in the freezer that kinda had tonight’s dinner written on it. With tomato sauce, olives, capers, maybe some artichoke hearts.
But after those videos I’m in the mood for something with a bit more protein and texture. Burgerfuel’s special for this month with a couple of thin-sliced steaks is looking mighty appetizing rightabout now.
Making a smart comment does not equal a cogent argument against cruelty to animals.
Feedlots are an abomination.
I’m very unlikely to get any more cats after I needed to call time on my dear old buddy, at least until I move somewhere where cat-like creatures are part of the local ecosystem. Because Gareth Morgan actually happens to be mostly right on the topic of cats in NZs natural places.
But if Gareth Morgan happened to be my neighbour, I’d be absolutely sure to get a couple more. Can you possibly think why, and how that applies to the way you present your views here?
Pointless debating with you.
Waitatapia Station, west of Bulls, bring cattle down from the central plateau to overwintering feedlots to keep them dry and warm and feed them locally cropped fodder.
Are they an abomination?
The thread I started was about feedlots, winter grazing and killing pregnant cows.
The purpose was to highlight some of the cruellest practices going on in the industrial farming model.
If the feedlots near Bulls have the same environmental impact and treat cows like 5 Star do,yes it is an abomination.
Do you approve of the industrial farming model as highlighted by the 3 stories I highlighted?
It is pointless debating here. Real truth from you Ed. Go somewhere else and enlighten them.
Ed gives an example of why I think that there should be a stop on any one thread of say five comments. If a person can’t make his or her point in that time then they are just a waste of space.
My five are about up so I will withdraw.
BTW Ed, the burger I ended up getting was really gooooood. An absolutely delightful combination of the holy trinity of well-done beef mince, bacon, and cheese, with some extra trimmings you wouldn’t want to know about.
Thanks for inspiring me out of my last few days of meat-free eating to go get it.
What tenants knew already but its nice to have Consumer NZ speak out
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/106256411/rise-of-property-management-industry-significantly-disadvantaging-tenants-consumer-nz-says
A tenant story I have heard. The tenant knew that the owners wanted to return and take possession of the house later in the year and was waiting for advice giving a period in which to search for another rental.
Recently a phone call was received asking were they ready to be shift out so that occupation could be taken up in a week. Apparently an email had been sent months ago and hadn’t been seen by the tenant. The tenant looked through the various folders but no record of any message. In the end an extra week was allowed. But what a shock and upset to be so near to being homeless, and with children and furniture to have shelter for.
The point here reinforces my own feeling, that turning away from paper to the ephemeral world of the net, is going to be a huge disadvantage to communication.
Both systems are helpful, and using both will be wise. Perhaps a letter with a follow-up internet confirmation, or vice versa. It would have been a great thing for this tenant to have received a confirmation in the mail.
The good news is that with a little time off work, and a short search on the internet and a bit of travelling by car, a new place that is rather small but suitable for about a year was found. Big relief. But the stress for people unable to get time off work, to have public transport at suitable times and then time to tramp the streets to visit the advertised offerings for suitability, the shifting of furniture, the final cleaning to the required level for bond return, as well as looking after the children, thinking also about school and how to access it.
A big burden. Can we decide to love all our families in NZ please, and give them much more support that they can call on when needed?
Wrong.
Shifting to digital will improve communication. Email can even force a reply.
Paper takes longer, costs more and can simply get lost.
No, they should have had an agreed date for the end of the lease.
A fixed-term lease doesn’t suit everyone.
Dunno what you mean by email being able to “force a reply”. Request read-receipt can be declined.
Personally my feeling is that unless the service is documented officially (and who’s to know if an email went to an unchecked or wrong address), the end of lease doesn’t count.
In the world of Captain Hindsight, the landlord should have called the tenant and confirmed the receipt of the notice.
DTB
You are so sure of yourself. Pity that you don’t live in the real world.
I do live in the real world.
It is you who are refusing to change with it.
Yes, he attacks me for challenging the present farming model.
Seems you’re wanting an alternative to the use of covered feed pads to extend pasture rotation, control nutrient run off, effluent and leachate, manage soil structure, and during/after wet conditions, prevent pasture damage, reduce the pugging of paddocks and prevent lameness/mastitis, manage animal health and nutrition, and keep the damned beasties warm and dry.
Shifting to digital will improve communication…
WRONG!
Yes DTB, you have a digital fetish, I get it…
The ‘real world’ you claim to live in…tell me all about it…genuinely interested how you see the digital world , ‘as real’..
It’s not the digital world that’s real.
It’s how it changes the way we interact with the world.
How it allows us to accept reality the way it is rather than through the delusional ideologies of yesteryear.
Simon’s Denials
Simon Bridges has blamed the Labour Party for Leaking his disgusting over expenditure of Tax Payers money in his cocky little jaunt through New Zealand.
Even though he already knew that was not the case.
Why do the Leaders of national lie about virtually everything. Housing crises; they lie about the Poverty affecting thousands of kiwis; lie about the so called Drug abuse of kiwi youth who apply for jobs; Lies lies Lies
Simon, like Paula, like Sir John Key, like Sir Billy English – is ignoring reality and tarring himself with the same outrageous dishonesty that defines the National Party and its followers.
It is an utter shame that nearly 42% of our Parliament is totally untrustworthy. Not only incompetent – but deliberately slippery and crooked.
They have to else no one would ever vote for them.
Robert Fisk: Israel is building another 1,000 homes on Palestinian land and nobody is saying anything
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/israel-settlement-expansion-1000-new-homes-palestinian-land-robert-fisk-wheres-the-outrage-a8504471.html
Well we know where we can find builders if we need them eddy.
Hell – labour can’t build that many in Auckland. So quite the achievement.
Great to see our PM continuing the the Key tradition of post match locker room hobnobbing with a professional sports team who exploits the occasion to plea for ( more) corporate welfare $$$ from an already pressured new government.
SSDD.
” … plea for ( more) corporate welfare…” Please elucidate, with references.
Philj, I think this maybe the article Rosemary is referring too.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12113673
This bit… ‘”I said (Steve Hanson) to Grant Robertson they should be our biggest sponsors because we’re their biggest brand, and could she find some money to help us compete against the likes of England and France to help us keep our players. So there wasn’t a lot said after that.”
Thanks Cindy, can’t link from my phone.
Seriously, footage of Ardern in the locker room should have come with a trigger alert for those of us still traumatized by such images of Key similarly fawning over these well paid sports people.
Though I guess is noteworthy in these times that such professionals have actually done their job to an acceptable standard.
I. Of course I meant ‘Cinny’, damn predictive text and fat fingers! 😉
Hehehe sweet as Rosemary,
Had another chuckle, re national this week when our local weekly paper came out. A wonderful photo on the front page, of our Motueka protest for the teachers strike.
Was so happy our local rag didn’t crop my sign….hehehehe…. you’ll have a giggle when you see it, it’s hard to miss… Lmao 🙂 It’s the sign in the middle with a ‘blue logo’ 😉
https://issuu.com/guardian-motueka/docs/22_august_2018
You get top of the class for the most effective and readable sign Cinny.
I could see Value the children And Then Value their Teachers too. Stand outs.
I’d’ve thought Fonterra would be a bit bigger. They pay their execs as if they were.
Thanks Cinny, the link does provide an insight into how corporate and government relate, a bit like a PPP.Cheers.
national party supporters are going to lose their minds about her being in the AB’s locker room.
Last years election win is the gift that keep on giving 🙂 loving it.
Hehe.. never heard comments from the players like this when key was grandstanding….
Hurricanes players Perenara and Ardie Savea and Chiefs midfielder Anton Lienert-Brown gave Ardern a kiss after the on-field presentation, with Perenara later telling the media of his gift:
“She’s special to my family and to my community so that’s something that was important for me to do.”
Congrats to the AB’s last nights game was outstanding.
The Black Ferns/Wallaroo game was much more exciting.
Both teams played with enthusiasm, competency and flair.
The win to the recently professionalised Black Ferns was richly deserved.
I confess to having dozed off in the first half of the men’s game…despite the raucous company at the RSA.
Hey Rosemary, they didn’t show the Black Ferns game on Prime, as far as I know 🙁 Hope you had a great night out, RSA is a fantastic venue for watching sport, lucky lady 🙂
Didn’t catch the first half of the AB’s.
I’ve a long standing date at 8:30pm on Saturday nights…. addicted to The Listening Post 🙂 Excellent episode this week.
https://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/listeningpost/
They showed the Black Ferns game on prim AFTER the ABs match, even though the women’s match was played first. It was getting to be past my bed time, having been up fairly early for work yesterday.
I only watched the beginning of the women’s match, and having recorded it, was planning to watch the rest today (thanks, Rosemary, now I know who won before I watched it 😁)
Anyway, I’m with Rosemary in that I’m not happy about a Labour-led government following the Nats’ PR strategy of locker room attendance, and related photo ops.
The thing I did pick up at the beginning of the recording of the women’s game, which showed the latter part of the cup presentation, was seeing Robertson lurking in the background. (I usually switch off the recording immediately a match ends)
I think Ardern’s media presentation does have a lot to do with Ardern’s personal style. However, I have also wondered how much Robertson was in the background providing guidance. Media presentation is in his realm of past experience. And he is also a big Union fan.
I had hoped that locker room PM attendance, and celebrity PM stuff, would have gone with Key. But it seems Ardern’s government is continuing this aspect of the neoliberal consensus, at the point when neoliberalism is passing its end date.
I DO think the PM of the day should attend the matches, by sitting in the stands, in support of teams representing NZ. However, the celebrity locker room stuff does not fit with left wing values, IMO.
carolyn_nth
To call a PM visit to the All Black locker room an example of “neoliberal consensus” is truly ridiculous.
Sure, it was not done in the past, but that is because our society is more informal with more social media these days. Not neoliberalism.
Modern PM’s are much more popular media driven than was the case, and the personalities who get the role reflect that. Evident with both Key and Ardern. Both are very different to Bolger or Clark, to take their precursor PM’s from both parties.
The PM does after all have a degree in communications, so she knows exactly what popular expectations are. Most people will like the fact that she visited the guys in the dressing room. Another way of demonstrating her connectedness.
At least she didn’t do a 3 way handshake.
It’s a mixture of both neoliberalism, and the current state of communications technologies. The form social media, and media has taken in recent times, has been strongly guided, even at times controlled, by neoliberal principles.
And the end result is the likes of Donald Trump gaining a very powerful political position, and current concerns about “fake news”. There’s too much spin and propaganda influencing voters, and this is very bad for democracy.
So, we get some political leaders who are a bit nicer than Trump, or John key e.g. Obama and Ardern, but it does not fix the deep-seated structural problems, and it is a cause for concern about the future of democracy.
The Labour Party will be aiming to equal the National Party vote next time at the polls.
There will be some on the left side of politics that won’t be happy to see Jacinda locker-room schmoozing. She doesn’t need to win their votes.
Jacinda was not only in the All Blacks locker room but also at the earlier Black Ferns match and in the locker room with the team. Earlier in the day she had spoken at the first NZ Rugby Women In Governance conference and made some pretty strong statements on the need for greater equality in the support etc of women’s rugby to that of men’s rugby.
That is a ‘first’ for those many people who have been smarting at the male domination of the sport and related money distribution for many years. I really hope Ardern’s locker room attendance at both matches is seen in light of her statements in the morning and will not go amiss with too many people.
What she said and links etc at 5.5 below.
The Black Ferns/Wallaroo game was much more exciting.
????
Rosemary, the score in the women’s game was even more lopsided than the men’s game. How exactly was it “much more exciting” than the men’s game?
Both teams played with enthusiasm, competency and flair.
Really? Both teams? Then why did one get thrashed?
I am amazed at the speed and skill of women’s rugby, but to say that they are “more exciting” than the All Blacks is just ridiculous.
I must say, at the point when I switched off the recording, I had thought the Black ferns were the likely winners as they seemed head and shoulders above the Wallaroos.
(I record the Prime matches, and wait about 20 minutes after the game starts showing before watching, so I can FF through the ads).
The women’s game is more dynamic and interesting have to say. When their star players are there its like watching the early days of Cullen and Lomu.
While the men’s can be like watching an arm wrestle sometimes..
Key was like an alien presence in the All Blacks’ dressing room. I suspect he was foisted on them by that horrible old Steve Hansen and that cheat non-pareil Richie McCaw.
This from New Zealand (reserve) Halfback TJ Perenara. “The values that she (Jacinda Ardern) stands by, and my family’s always been strong Labour and I’m proud to be strong Labour as well.” Its a rare thing to hear an All Black endorse the Labour party-especially a current player. (I believe Graeme Thorne and Tony Steel were All Blacks that were part of the National Party-even MP’s-at one stage.) I think Chris Laidlaw-former AB halfback-was part of the Labour Party once upon a time. https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/tj-perenara-gave-all-blacks-jersey-jacinda-ardern-after-last-nights-test-before-snapping-photo-together
Steve would rather the government spend money on a bidding war over pro sports players than a bidding war to keep medicines affordable for kiwis.
Hes in a professional game with an amateur mindset, there’s nothing stopping him from selecting overseas All Blacks players earning tons of other peoples money.
Well, nothing but the NZRFU policy of selecting NZ based players to avoid the absurdity of privately owned, northern hemisphere clubs influencing national selection.
Arent the Super rugby sides here in NZ ‘privately owned’ ?
Private ownership partnered with franchise unions under the auspices of the NZRFU, who dictate player salaries and availability.
Football seems to have sorted that out many moons ago. The best players play for the best clubs and still get to represent their country. Rugby is amateur in that respect.
Nah. Even age group teams have trouble getting players released by their clubs.
Twelve of the 28 players initially invited to a pre-tournament camp his week are not present – eight by choice, two due to injury, and two because their professional clubs wouldn’t release them
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/105732207/national-u20-football-team-hit-by-player-withdrawals-ahead-of-world-cup-qualifiers
Rosemary, I did not see either of the two matches yesterday but late last night I did read a number of media reports on the the two matches. Jacinda Ardern attended both matches – AND also a conference earlier in the day, the first ever Women in Governance conference.
At that conference she made some very relevant comments about rugby, reported by several media.
From the RadioNZ report (almost all of it):
Rugby needs to be more inclusive, particularly of women, to be fully deserving of the title of New Zealand’s national sport, the Prime Minister says.
Talking to a packed conference room at New Zealand Rugby’s first ever Women in Governance Conference in central Auckland this morning, Jacinda Ardern said rugby needs to “be a game for everyone, and that includes women”.
“For me if rugby is going to include us as women it should represent us equally, and have a relationship with us equally, both as players and spectators, and that means, as it does with every area of life, including women fairly, giving women the opportunity to excel, paying them appropriately, and providing leadership opportunities,” Ms Ardern said.
Ms Ardern said, when asked for clarification, she believed rugby does currently deserve to be called New Zealand’s national sport, ” but with that title we need to make sure we’re striving to lift the outcomes for women in sport as well”.
She was at the conference, articulating her vision for sporting gender equality, ahead of the Black Ferns and All Blacks double header against Australia at Eden Park tonight.
She called on rugby to use its “power, influence and reach” to promote inclusiveness of and respect for women across New Zealand – not just in sport – and said she hoped for a day when women’s sport was just called sport.
“[The Black Ferns] are incredible rugby players, they are incredible athletes, they are not incredible women rugby players, they are not incredible women athletes, they are just incredible rugby players and athletes,” Ms Ardern said.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/364912/rugby-needs-to-be-more-inclusive-to-deserve-title-of-national-sport-pm
There are also some good comments on the different way that male and female rugby is treated are also in this piece this morning on RNZ News.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/sport/364950/eden-park-double-header-crowds-tries-and-the-pm
In my view, I doubt that Ardern will give in to more money going the All Blacks’ way. If anything, she may well use her power to lever a much more equal distribution of any government money towards the Black Ferns. I understand that in the past Grant Robertson has also expressed similar views to the PM’s re the equality issue in relation to rugby.
In a lighter vein the Black Ferns doing a haka for Ardern.
And another related link I have just seen which gives more information about the Conference which was inaugurated and held by NZ Rugby.
http://www.voxy.co.nz/sport/5/319206
An excerpt:
NZR Chair Brent Impey said: “The objective was to bring together women who hold governance roles across rugby to create a strong network of Directors and support the growth of more women in governance and leadership roles across rugby in New Zealand.”
“The Board has prioritised diversity as part of its sucession planning and has already made important strategic commitments to women’s rugby including the appointment of former Black Ferns captain Dr Farah Palmer to the NZR Board, the appointment of NZR Head of Women’s Rugby Cate Sexton, increased funding for the women’s game, an historic first agreement that introduced professional contracts for Black Ferns, and a bid to host the 2021 Women’s Rugby World Cup.”
Additional actions taken to date to grow the diversity at a governance level in rugby include the implementation of the Diversity Report, three women are now seconded onto NZR Board sub-committees, the Constitution has been changed to ensure at least one female is a member of the Board Appointments Panel, and the number of appointed board positions has increased from three to six.
NZR Board Member Farah Palmer said: “NZR is committed to gender equity and is actively supporting the growth of women and girls through the Women’s Rugby Strategy.
Thanks, veuto. That’s very interesting.
It’s also interesting that RNZ seems to have been the main media platform where that has been reported, while Stuff focused on Ardern at the ABs. It is dangerous to be playing the cooperate media game, albeit, trying to skew it in a different direction. I would rather see a whole different approach, away from neoliberal style propaganda, to an approach that fits more with left wing values.
Women’s rugby has also been getting increasing coverage in the media, and now Prime seems to be showing their matches. When I set up to record the Black Ferns last night, was given the option to record the whole series of Black Ferns matches. This seems to be a new initiative from Prime.
But also, I recall a public talk I attended recently by an Auckland Uni professor of politics (Jennifer Curtin), about Ardern’s representation and style as PM. The biggest take-away I got from the talk was in the area of policy. It’s something that’s going on a bit below the radar, and Ardern’s initiatives around women’s rugby fits with that.
Apparently Ardern is requiring that all new policies and legislation include a gender component – ie include a report on how women’s concerns can be addressed with the policy/legislation.
I will be interested to see more of how this works out. I’d also like to see something similar with respect to income and wealth inequalities included with all policies.
Carolyn I only did a quick search so did not necessarily pick up all items on JA’s attendance at the conference or at the Black Ferns match, but RNZ was not the only one to report the earlier engagements. There were more – eg TVNZ. Did see a photo of Jacinda with Kendra Cocksedge and Lorde after the BF game but that seems to have disappeared. There seem to be more media reports on the All Blacks game. As an aside, a pretty full Saturday for JA yesterday.
I actually worked for a short time on a cross-government policy project with JA years ago when she was a fresh greenhorn in Helen Clark’s office and I was very impressed (as a much older woman) and convinced that she would eventually make it to where she is now. I just did not want to see it too soon, but I am really noticing her growing in the role.
The approaches you mention in relation to policy are well in line with the depth and breadth of her thinking etc that I saw back then and I am sure that we will see her expand these requirements for consideration of gender to other inequalities such as income, wealth, disabilities. It may not be quick enough for some here and elsewhere but she also showed maturity back then – and does now imo – in realising that Rome was not built in a day and often mistakes, backlash etc can come with doing too much, too quickly.
I was impressed with her statements etc re Curran on Friday and understand why she did not pull the plug completely at that time. There is an urgent review now underway into the appointment process for the CTO position Handley has applied for, and I suspect that if there is any hint whatsoever that Curran has muddied that, the hammer will fall again. There is a lot of steel in the Ardern psyche as well as compassion, equality etc. She is playing it careful on a lot of fronts in the situation.
I do understand that policy development is a a major strength of Ardern. However, i am still not clear on her underlying left wing values, or whether she is a soft neoliberal like Robertson. I would like to see Ardern ditch Robertson as one of her key advisors.
But also, I am concerned that Curran still has the media portfolio. It seems to indicate that Ardern (and probably Robertson, too) don’t see the re-vitalisation of public service media as being urgent. And to me that is a major problem.
But I will be watching where the policy and legislation direction goes with this government. It would be very good if it turned out Ardern is strongly left wing, and not a soft neoliberal centrist.
Carolyn, I do see where you are coming from. But you also need to understand where Ardern is coming from and who are her besties within the Labour caucus/Cabinet.
Her besties are Grant Robertson and Chris Hipkins, both of whom came into the parliamentary area of Labour with the common link between the three being Helen Clark. MS is probably much more knowledgeable of the relationships than I am. So I do not see her ditching Robertson – or Hipkins – as advisors.
Re Curran, I have seen claims that Ardern and Curran have been flatmates in Wellington. I have no idea if this is correct but as I said at 5.5.1.1.1 I believe that Ardern is being a little cautious for employment law and other legal reasons so that if she has to pull the plug completely she is covered legally in doing so. As I said, I think she is quite capable of doing so.
I can report that the women’s game commanded just as much attention from the cosmopolitan company at the FFN RSA last night as did the blokes’ game.
Being an earlier game the volume of ale consumed was low, and the informal commentary as a result was enthuastic and respectful.
Not do much for the later showcase game, as the ‘arm wrestling’ in the first half led the assemblage to resort to discussing the Australian prime ministeral shennanigans.
No booing from the RSA when Ardern went on the field to congratulate the Black Ferns.
Good report and good to hear, Rosemary. Cheers.
Was some quite audible booing at park at end of game for the PM
The bumptious, barely articulate Greg Newbold stinks up the airwaves.
The Panel, RNZ National, Wednesday 22 August 2018,
Jim Mora, Joe Bennett, Rebekah White, Emil Donovan
First topic for today’s program: the Crime and Justice Summit. Serious topic, and one which attracts some thoughtful and brilliant minds. Professor Greg Newbold was what Mora likes to call “the talent” in this discussion…..
JIM MORA: Andrew Little’s Crime and Justice, uh, Summit looks, ah, set to recommend have fewer people in prison, you would infer, and the pulling of other levers, as the Prime Minister puts it, to both keep New Zealanders safe and better treat and rehabilitate those behind bars. And as we’ve discussed before, doing both at the same time will be the trick. But, Panelists, you are all for this?
REBEKAH WHITE: I really—
JOE BENNETT: All for what?
REBEKAH WHITE: You go, Joe.
JOE BENNETT: No sorry, I just want to clarify, what am I “all for”?
JIM MORA: Okay. All for both the extra rehabilitative approach and getting prison numbers down.
REBEKAH WHITE: Sounds great in theory. How do you DO that?
JIM MORA: Yes, we do ask that as well.
REBEKAH WHITE: Ha ha ha.
JOE BENNETT: Heh, heh, heh, heh….
MORA: Joe, do you have an opinion on it?
JOE BENNETT:Ummm. I’m no criminologist. It’s, it’s, it’s very hard, isn’t it. Ummmm, the, I remember going to a prison once, visiting a prison, ahem, Christchurch Men’s Prison, um, for, with regards to some columns that I had written, and I went there a couple of times. And it was an appalling place. Ummm, just the bottled testosterone there, it bristled, it was, it was, you felt soiled and horrible and horrid to be there, and you couldn’t imagine that it was rehabilitative. Ah, but I remember the Governor there saying to me, and he had far more reason to know than I would, he said that only two things rehabilitated the inmates in his prison, and one was they got God, and the other one was they got the love of a good woman. And I throw that out there for what it’s worth, I can’t verify it, I can’t vindicate it, but he sounded as though he knew what he was talking about.
MORA: Memorable.
JOE BENNETT: Mmmm.
MORA: Memorable. Criminologist, uh, Professor Greg Newbold isn’t at the Summit. We’ll seek his views on it shortly, but first actually we want to ask him something else from a listener. Greg, good afternoon.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Hi. G’day.
MORA: Here’s the question for you, ahh, first up, uh. “Jim, at this summit are lots of people with all sorts of ideas on how to reduce recidivism. Lots of them make a living from this sector. Has anyone sat down and asked the criminals and prisoners what their ideas are as to what would motivate them to change their behavior and their lives? Is there any research like this?” asks Chris Malcolm. Greg, what’s the answer? What do prisoners want, what do they think will work?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Aww, they wanna get outa jail. Mo– heh!— mosta them, ahhm, they would come up with ideas, they’re not criminologists, I mean, I was in jail myself, as you know—
MORA: Mmmm.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: —for five and a half years, and um, awww, everybody had different ideas about what they’d do when they got out. The problem was that a lot of guys in prison say, when they’re in jail, they say, Ohhh, I’ve ruined my life, I shouldn’ta done this and I shouldn’ta done that, and when I get out I’m not going to make the same mistake, and then they get out and make the same mistake. You got 86 per cent recidivism in New Zealand over five years. So, ahhhhmmm, y’know, what prisoners say and what they actually do are two different things.
JOE BENNETT: Can I ask a question?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah. Please.
JOE BENNETT: Is there anywhere in the world which has, say, half that recidivism rate?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Ah, no, not that I know of. The United States has got pretty much the same as us. Ummm, we’ve got a pretty high recidivism rate, I’ll tell you, the United States is around seventy-FIVE per cent—
JOE BENNETT: What about Scandinavian countries?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah I mean people talk about Sweden and so on but you never see any real data from it. I went to a prison in Sweden once, and it was a pretty nice jail, but you know, you’ve got a different social situation and a different demographic makeup over there, so you can’t compare them. You’ve got to compare apples with apples.
MORA: When you were IN jail—
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Mmm.
MORA: —did you get an inkling of, if not what they wanted when they got out, which was to get out, but of what they needed, Greg, of what other fellow inmates needed to make them, ah, better citizens afterwards?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Ahhhh, not really, um. Most of the guys—I was in maximum security for most of my time—most of the guys up there had had horrific backgrounds, really terrible family backgrounds and childhoods, and that’s where the problem lay. A lot of them were very damaged before they came to prison and had histories of offending going back to when they were in school, absenteeism, neglectful parenting, abusive parenting, no parenting at all in some cases, and when you have a kid who’s been brought up in those circumstances, you’ve got a person who’s very very difficult to do anything with. It’s a problem which begins in childhood and is very difficult to turn around in adulthood. Quite often these guys wake up once they reach their forties and fifties, but between that age of seventeen to, say, 35 to 40 they can be pretty dangerous and pretty crazy.
MORA: And I know there are intentions, I’m sure they were voiced at the summit today and yesterday, about turning it round far earlier on in life, and that’s been discussed a lot.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah.
MORA: Anzac Wallace, at the Summit yesterday: “If we are 52 per cent of the prison population”—meaning Maori—“why aren’t we 52 per cent of the people speaking?” Is he right, that we need the Maori voice louder here, Greg?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Well it’s no good just having—just ’cause you’re a MAORI on, uh, on, on crime or prisons. Ahhhhmmm, so I don’t think, uh, ahh, ahh, y’know, there’ll be Maoris at that thing that have got backgrounds, but ah, um, it, that’s not going to solve a problem, having a whole lotta people speaking who don’t know what they’re talking about. Um, you got seven hundred people there, and most of them won’t have any real background in criminology or corrections at all, they’ll just be people who’ve got nothing better to do for two days.
JOE BENNETT: Ha ha ha ha ha!
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: And you’ll have a big talk fest there, and everyone will come up with their own personal plans and bright ideas, but it’s not really going to make any difference.
JOE BENNETT: If you were Minister of Corrections what would you do?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: This isn’t the first one, there’ve been heaps of these bloody summits in the past. The reason I’m not there is that I’ve been to so many, and that’s all they are, talk fests, and so I didn’t bother going, I’ve got better things to do.
MORA: Were you invited, out of interest?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah yeah, I was invited to, uh, to, uh, apply to go up, which was essentially an invitation to go there, but I didn’t respond to it because I thought it would be a waste of time.
JOE BENNETT: Can I ask a question? Greg, if you were suddenly appointed Minister of Corrections today, what would you do?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: I’d start building prisons.
MORA: Seriously?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: I’d build a, I’d stop, uh, double bunking, and um, I’d set up a program for inmates who self-identify. A lot of prisoners aren’t really that interested in reforming, and I mean, where Maori are concerned, for example, 70 per cent are gang affiliated. Well, if you’re gang affiliated, um, then, uh, your chances of actually going on to a crime-free lifestyle when you get out are pretty limited. So I’d get guys who self-identify, who want to get out of gangs and don’t wanna go to jail, and I’d make things available to THEM, and the others I’d say, well get on with your lag and get out and good luck to you when you get out.
MORA: One obvious question, and I mean, I don’t really want to get into the Scandinavian model again today, because we’ve talked about it a bit on the Panel but there ARE places overseas, and countries overseas, with lower recidivism rates than ours and, getting back to the original question that Chris asked about getting into the minds of prisoners, and it was interesting to hear your viewpoint on that, and also what Anzac Wallace said, uh, isn’t it necessary to get better acquainted with the minds of Maori prisoners if we’re going to get that terrifically high number of people in prison down?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Y-y-yeah, well they talk about the Maori mind, Corrections talk about it. I don’t think Maoris have got different minds than Pakehas, quite frankly. I know lots of Maoris, they don’t think any differently to me, I was in jail with them, we all thought the same. I don’t think there’s such a thing as a Maori mind. And, ummmm, as far as that, you know, these recidivist rates, you can’t compare them internationally because they don’t ha—, there’s no standard measure for recidivism. They have different criteria and different follow-up periods, and unless you have the same follow-up period and the same criteria, you can’t compare different countries with their recidivist rates because you’re comparing apples with pears.
MORA: So you’re saying that when we hear about the success of individual overseas rehabilitative treatments, and someone says we’ve got the recidivism rate down from 49 per cent to seven per cent and measured that—
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah, well they’re—BLOODY rubbish, absolute rubbish. AB-solute bloody nonsense. You look at that, you could look, I guarantee you, you give me that, that report and I’ll have a look at it, and I’ll find all the flaws in it. RUBBISH.
MORA: Heeeee-e-e-e! [chortling] We’ll assemble them all and present them for your, um, perusal! Ha ha!
JOE BENNETT: Ha ha!
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah yeah, give me—
MORA: Okay—
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: I’ll critique the bloody lot.
MORA: So you think nothing works. I mean, people are sending in ideas on the text, uh, “a low rate in Utah of recidivism, where prisoners are adopted by families.—Paul.” I mean, we hear all the time if you can connect prisoners with whanau for example more efficiently in prison, they are far less likely to go back to prison, so I mean, there’s a lot of pretty impressive anecdotage about this Greg.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah it is, it’s all anecdotal, that’s all it is. You could get, y’know, I mean, they talk about, they talk about strengthening family ties, Christ, most of the guys in jail come from GANGS. If you, if you, heh heh, if you strengthen family ties, specially whanau ties with Maori, all you’re strengthening is the GANG association. So, um, y’know, ya gotta be pretty careful about what you’re talking about with your, with your, ahhm, when you, when you talk about strengthening whanau [chortling] whanau links. A lot of them come from intergenerational crime families [chortling]
MORA: Well the same applies—
REBEKAH WHITE: You go.
MORA: Sorry Rebekah, I was just going to say the same applies to intergenerational Pakeha crime families you would think.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, it does. It does, it does. And they—
MORA: Rebekah you were going to say something.
REBEKAH WHITE: Go.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: But the Maori problem is particularly bad because whereas about 30 per cent of all inmates have gang association, where Maori’s concerned it’s SEVENTY per cent. It’s a HUGE problem.
REBEKAH WHITE: So going back to those families and those associations, is there research around what kind of interventions are successful at, um, correcting the course of life that someone might be on?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Can you repeat that please?
REBEKAH WHITE: So is there research around what kinds of interventions can be, um, carried out?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah there’s a whole lot of Canadian—
REBEKAH WHITE: What are the most effective ones?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yes there’s a whole lot of Canadians which have done this very complicated regression analysis and they’ve got these programs which they say work. See, the problem is that most programs, and Integrated Centre Management, which we adopted in New Zealand in 2002, tried to emulate it. But the problem is: most of these programs that work take place in highly structured laboratory type situations where they’re fully resourced, they’ve got specialist Ph.D.-qualified people applying them, and they do have some effect on some people. But you can’t apply that across the board in a prison population of a hundred—where you’ve got ten thousand five hundred people in prison.
REBEKAH WHITE: So we haven’t researched this in New Zealand?
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, they TRIED it, they tried it with Integrated Centre Management, they tried to apply it. But they couldn’t apply it in the real world context. It’s okay to apply these things in a laboratory context but if you try and apply them in the real world they don’t work ‘cos you don’t have the resources. Unless you’re going to spend millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars, ahhhmm, you’re not going to succeed in these things. So you’ve gotta be realistic about it. In New Zealand the Integrated Centre Management program didn’t alter recidivism rates one bit.
MORA: It’s interesting hearing the contrarian voice on this, from outside the Summit, as it were, Greg, but you’re painting a pretty grim picture of a New Zealand where our only successful strategy will be to build the mega-prison and lock more people away.
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: Yeah, well I think you’ve gotta, we’ve gotta improve prison conditions. I mean you can’t even HOPE to get the kinds of achievements, the kinds of outcomes that are desired if you’ve got people crowded up in multi-cell situations. I’m writing to a bloke at the moment who’s doing a degree at the private prison in Wiri and he’s having a hell of a lot of trouble studying because he’s got a cell-mate who wants to play the guitar all the time, while he’s trying to study. You know, if you’ve got, you do get people in prison who really do wanna get out and they’re taking realistic steps to stop themselves from reoffending, but if they’re stuck in an environment where achieving their goals is impossible, then they’re bashing their head against a wall.
MORA: All right, understood, and thanks for your—
PROFESSOR GREG NEWBOLD: We’ve gotta create good prisons, with plenty of room and well resourced, and the first thing you need to do is start building capacity.
MORA: All right. Professor Greg Newbold, thank you for joining us today on The Panel.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thepanel/audio/2018659262/will-justice-summit-achieve-anything
Greg N was always a bit of a priveledged right winger @ Morrissey.
He probably should have spent his time studying gender and sexuality (not that he’s let his schooling interfere with his education in that regard).
He has however been through a bit of near death experience in recent times. So I imagine that has made him even more grumpy towards his former peers who’ve not managed to make as much good as he has.
I wouldn’t be surprised if an acceptable solution (in Greg’s mind) to recidivism would be to pump prisoners regularly with a dose of oestrogen
Don,t get too excited Cinny, i was there and she got booed by the crowd
reals? Lucky you Alan. hope you had a great night. Couldn’t hear any booing via the TV.
Can back that up Cinny sorry to pop your ballon there was clearly booing Really who cares rugby as the national game and its fans span across the political spectrum, Just enjoy the game for what it is
I was in my local, a big sports bar. When the PM was on screen one of the kitchen staff grabbed another by the arm and pointed to the screen and yelled ‘Look, Jacinda!’
If a few sad Tories in the crowd booed, it’s says nothing about how the rest of the country feels about Jacinda Ardern.
Liar. She was cheered. The only politician to be booed at Eden Park was John Key.
you weren’t there were you
I’ve been to more football games than YOU, I would bet. I wasn’t there last night, no, but I know that most people there would have cheered for her. As everyone else here has attested, there was no audible booing for her, but there was applause for her.
So there were a few National-voting drones and boors sitting near you—that’s your problem.
Yes Alan and his mates booed.
So that equates to the crowd booing.
so you weren’,t there, confirmed
What’s confirmed is that you live in your own little hateful world. Why did you boo her, by the way?
I was there and she was definitely booed, not to Len Brown or Jk standards late in his last term but definitely audible undertone of booing, sorry if any balloons popped
The funniest comment thus far!
Was there also an “audible undertone” of “any balloons popped”?
You must been sitting next to Alan and heard him.
That was you wasn’t it Ally.
It may have been bewildered.
Nup not that exercised about Jacinda. Actually quite like her just not her politics Rugby fans span across the political spectrum. I find trying to claim a political victory from it fkn rediculous. It’s just Just fact there was no booing for jacinda at black ferns presentation but definitely booing but also cheering at ab presentation Most of it is light hearted so no need to get to exercised about it I also think it’s mostly about politics intruding into a national past time than any thing else
And ed I doubt you ever watched a game of rugby in your life so with respect dear Fuck off back to your lentil patch and Galloway cat porn
By the way Ed before game enjoyed a hearty few beers a big fat juicy steak 😀
Has Chris Trotter modified his brutal views in the last five years?
I note that the leading philosopher Chris “Haw Haw” Trotter is contributing his two cents’ worth to the discussion about the Crime and Justice Summit.
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2018/08/the-summit-of-folly-why-middle-new.html
We wonder if he has abandoned his support for Deep South lynch law….
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/chris-trotter-reckons-zimmerman-jury.html
I have no idea what the fuck is going on in Trotter’s head these days. It seems he is absolutely convinced that there is some sort of bogeyman called “middle New Zealand” that is utterly reactionary, vindictive and constitutes some sort of impassive and monolithic electoral majority.
Trotter is an ideological coward who is terrified at the thought of any reform that might upset his imaginary bogeyman who has crossed over to the territory occupied by out of touch and fearful old men.
He’s a coward and a scoundrel. I’ll never forgive him for his expression of glee at the suffering of Julian Assange….
https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2018/01/an-unusually-inane-and-depraved-edition.html
Sanctuary
You don’t like Chris thinking about hard, uncaring middle NZ. Sounds like you might turn into one of their advocates.
And same goes for Morrissey
This blog shouldn’t be a place of attack on people who are airing the thinking of different groups in a way that you don’t agree with. Chris opens up subjects to discussion from differing viewpoints and should not be chastised for it. I don’t agree with all he says. But it is good to look at his opinions and have the right to disagree. I found this sort of carpet bombing when discussing anything that related to rape culture here.
Just lay off the vicious attack stuff please. It doesn’t help in the effort to understand the mindsets of major players in our present society.
With all the political news this week, I’ve forgotten to post something that is very dear to my heart.
THANK YOU COALITION GOVERNMENT FOR MAKING GOOD ON A PROMISE.
This news is huge and it brings so much hope to some very vulnerable girls and their families. Salisbury School saves lives.
Salisbury School tips roll increase after Government announces wider access
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/106496222/salisbury-school-tips-roll-increase-after-government-announces-wider-access
Speaking of schools.
Corinna School in Waitangirua, Porirua is the first in New Zealand to be fully accredited as a living wage primary school.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/106536924/meet-the-porirua-people-working-at-new-zealands-first-living-wage-primary-school
Christ the number of comments claiming schools must pay staff sub-acceptable wages are depressing.
I especially liked that the school thought about it enough to setup how cleaners and janitorial staff could be included in that (by taking the cleaning contractor out of the picture). Of course the cleaning contractor would never have paid the living wage.
“I especially liked that the school thought about it enough to setup how cleaners and janitorial staff could be included in that (by taking the cleaning contractor out of the picture).”
Perhaps it will be something we will see other schools emulate.
If the Government genuinely supported the Living Wage, no Government related (directly or indirectly) contract/tender would be considered unless companies vying for them paid a living wage.
Fantastic, Cinny.
I was thrilled when the new government moved quickly to lift the closure hammer from over the head of the school last December, and this news of the new direct-access pathway to enrolment should make things so much easier for families and lead to more eligible students being able to access this very special school.
Yes great news Cinny – so close to being sent down the road. Good, practical help to young females, such a good resource with experienced, caring people.
Loves Trump, hates POC, feminists, reproductive autonomy, and LGBTI folk, eugenicist, reckons the juntas of the past were the bomb, on a mission from Dog to save the country from socialism, and he could be Brazil’s next President.
On the wall of Jair Bolsonaro’s office in a modernist annex of Brazil’s Congress hang five faded black-and-white portraits. They are memoirs of a time many Brazilians would prefer to forget, when military generals ruled the country from 1964 until 1985 and the cost of insurrection was kidnap, torture and secret execution.
Bolsonaro, the de facto front runner for the Brazilian presidential election that begins on Oct. 7, is the foremost apologist for that era. He has made a career eulogizing its abuses and–for a decade after the return of democracy in 1989–calling for its reinstatement. Today he is proud of his support of the regime he served as an army captain.
http://time.com/5375731/jair-bolsonaro/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jair_Bolsonaro#Political_views
If you like good (political) parody: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/08/why-the-nordic-model-wont-work-in-the-u-s
That was funny
“It’s no accident that Bernie Sanders is from Vermont. Hope leftists like six-month winters.”
Thinking of Denis O’Reilly a regular spokesperson about and for gangs in NZ and particularly Black Power. Here is a piece about him, The NZ Herald has often published about and with him.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11602653
He has spiritual and humane thinking and also looks at how to bring these into policies and practices that take Maori out of the valley they are in to heights of personal achievement and satisfaction.
I came to the Black Power as an act of community service.
I had trained to be a priest and was imbued with the whole Paolo Friere South American liberation theology, social justice, worker-priest, servant-leader thing. When I presented myself at the door of the whare of the Black Power they accepted me unconditionally even though I am Pakeha. I experienced a sense of belonging, whanau, and unconditional love. I didn’t stop being anything – a son to my parents, brother to my siblings, a member of my faith, a Treaty partner, a committed New Zealander. Mind you, later, it has cost my whanau dearly in terms of being labelled and having suffered prejudicial treatment by officers of the Crown, especially the police.
The greatest myth about gang life is that it’s all about crime. I can’t talk about all gangs but for the Maori gangs it is essentially an association that creates a sense of whanau as an antidote to social alienation….
True leadership is a contextual concept and within that a behaviour. Take a natural exemplar, the kuaka or bartailed godwit, which at this very time of the year, is contemplating a long flight, in a flock, from Aotearoa back to China and the Siberian steppes. The lead bird, the kahukura, takes the brunt of the wind, but the dynamics of the overlapping wings in the flowing formation creates an updraught and the leader is buoyed.
That’s a lovely notion that leadership is defined by followship, and the act of followship creates an uplift. After a time the kahukura drops back and another takes its place. So this intimates that we all have a responsibility at times to lead and at others to follow. As humans we all have feet of clay so I won’t curse someone by identifying them as a living embodiment of leadership but, as his spirit is still around us, could I nominate the late Dr Ranginui Walker as a kahukura exemplar?
I think he has become ‘the apple of my eye’ after reading about his work.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12032153
Denis O’Reilly offers solution to Hawke’s Bay apple picking crisis
On the NZ Edge blog Denis has put up a few items of importance each year.
There is a memoriam on the death of friend Ranga Tuhi. He was an artist and carver and this link shows some of his work.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoD_1PLGTLQ
http://www.nzedge.com/news/
NZ Edge.com
The global life of NZ
Aotearoa Whanau Whanui Ki Te Ao Nui
Senator John McCain has died.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/364956/us-senator-john-mccain-dies-aged-81
RIP John McCain. You were who you were and whilst we hardly agreed I wish you well on your journey.
Your comments are often less than flattering to commentators here , MM…
McCain is responsible for an unfathomable amount of human misery….
Looked in the mirror lately?
[whispers] there is no mirror…
No mirror required for self reflection, Marty…
Less than flattering was an understatement, in case you didn’t pick that up…
So in being abusive to others here, yet well wishing to JM for his journey…confused ?
So you fall again. Try to keep your eyes open for the obvious next time eh?
I did consider the eulogy to JM may have been sarcasm…but there was no conclusive evidence in your initial comment, or follow up to mine…
Was it sarcasm ?
Fail again. Not good enough. End.
Brilliant, Marty…Nothing to learn here…
Sadly you’re not ready to learn – that’s a question you should ask yourself – why the self sabotage? When you remember the answer come back for the second lesson. Let go of ego – you know you can – remember?
Marty, your comments in this specific exchange tell a very clear tale…
See if you can learn about yourself…as I have done…through your commentary over the years…
We’re all at various stages of our journeys…different levels…different understandings…
Indeed we are. Most of us get out of the “pretentious pseudo-gnostic arse” stage of the journey by our early twenties.
I remember stoners saying “red pill or blue pill” and “there is no spoon” when the movie was first released. Must be a retro movie that pretentious hipster teen stoners watch these days lol
Oney you have much to learn – sorta remind me of a much younger me – ha – the road will not rise until you fall – get it now? You seem a bit stuck on this – try your breathing exercises after all that’s what they are there for. Focus on the rise and fall – hopefully things will move for you now – keep at it.
Vale John McCain.
Interesting thread.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1033152993649209344.html
He was a man of integrity and respect.
He also disagreed with people without painting them as evil or whatever. He could agree to disagree, without treating the other person or the issue flippantly.
He was a conservative, but not to the point of being corruptly partisan. And he had gravity and dignity.
I wouldn’t want to be exactly like him, but he did have a few qualities we can’t go too far wrong cultivating in ourselves or our leaders.
I agree McFlock, unlike many from his side he didn’t seem primarily motivated by the $. I believe in his own way he was out to create a better world and if we all felt that way, regardless of our political stripe, we’d end up with something half decent.
‘Theyre all’ out to create a ‘better world’…
Well expressed McFlock.
Any radical can convince those who already agree with them; the mark of a truly effective politician is persuading those who might normally oppose you.
The saltiest obit you’re likely to to ever read.
http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/08/mccain
Yeah, there’s a lot in that which is true.
But some of it is a bit harsh – he didn’t just “not go along with the worst” of the anti-Obama stuff, he publicly opposed it. A Republican having an interest in foreign policy is quite exceptional these days. Putting more troops into Iraq initially might have actually enabled them to maintain order and stop the decay into sectarian violence (although there were many other issues, not just numbers. The yanks had the mindset to win the war, but winning the peace wasn’t ever on their radar).
But, yeah – he wasn’t all good. He was a conservative, after all.
Shame I liked John, for a right wing politician he was always gave us a bit of a giggle. He did bring us the laugh factory that was Sarah Palin. And his attacks by trump were at times, priceless in their comedic effect.
Rest in peace John.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/world/us-senator-john-mccain-dies
Julie Bishop resigns
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/364961/australia-s-foreign-minister-resigns-from-cabinet
Soymun could be next.
For my dear friend Morrissey and other conspiracy theorist on Venezuela and socialism from the economist
“Mr Maduro says this is the fault of “imperialist” powers like America, which are waging “economic war” on Venezuela. In fact, the catastrophe is caused by the crackpot socialism introduced by Hugo Chávez and continued by Mr Maduro after Chávez’s death in 2013. Expropriations and price controls have undermined private firms, depressing production. Corruption has subverted the state. Mismanagement of PDVSA, the state-owned oil company, has caused oil output to drop by half since 2014. Just as the regime has asphyxiated democracy, by rigging elections and governing without reference to the opposition-controlled legislature, so it has strangled the economy”
John Key couldn’t of saved Venezuela. Chavez chucked Maduro a hospital pass and up and died.
What we’re seeing in Venezuela is not a model of left vs right politics. It a tragic scene brought on by fairweather loaning greedy men with scant regard for the future or their responsibilities.
People like this come from all walks of life. No matter if it’s a politician milking a cash cow until it’s dead or a BOP orchardist hiring a gang of Tongan slaves. Assholes come in all colours.
Tend to agree David Mac but Venezuela never less is one of a long list of countries who have applied socialism in regard to nationalisation of the means of production that has led to misery and gross human rights abuse I do agree adopting socialist policies but maintaining a capitalist economy is a different story But surely now any pretext to full on socialism, communism is totally discredited but some in nz and on this site incredibly still back it
For and different perspective, independent of the corporate media.
Not sure RT acolyte is a step up on so called corporate media I gave it 10 minutes just got silly capitalism this, neo liberalism that ( yawn) I believe The Economist has more credibility as an independent voice
” I believe The Economist has more credibility as an independent voice”
That would make you a useful idiot then. There are so many who haunt this site.
Idiot. You know nothing.
I think we’re essentially socialists here in NZ bewildered. In it’s rawest form: I believe in you and what is important to you and in return you do the same for me.
Nice.
I think this has come about for a wide range of reasons. Starting with trying to scratch out livings in land that belonged to people that quite liked eating us. Moving on to the lording mine owners with sensational British Navy purchase orders that wanted to create a little Britain on the westcoast.
We’ve got plenty of reasons to have socialist roots.
I think the left have lost their way a bit….I’m old, I pine for the old days….You used to be able to tell you were meeting a man from the left from the callouses in his handshake, these days leftishness is determined with the speed that a racist can be identified.
I think being left is about aspiring to see a fair go for everyone. Far from what we see in Venezuela and I think it’s an aspiration most Kiwis would subscribe to.
“Conspiracy theorist”? That’s exactly what that dolt Key and his doltish cronies called Nicky Hager.
I presume you will provide something to support your claim that I am a conspiracy theorist. If you fail to do so, you have furnished us with yet more evidence that you do not have a clue about anything.
Thought provoking stuff, as ever , from Craig Murray.
“Air transport is simply far too cheap for the damage it causes and the resources it consumes. You cannot cause more damage to the Earth’s atmosphere with £30 worth of resources, than by buying a £30 Ryanair ticket to Barcelona. If you spend that £30 on fuel for your diesel car, or on coal and burn it in your garden, you will not come close to the damage caused by your share of emissions on that Ryanair flight.
The fundamental reason air travel has expanded to be so harmful is the international understanding that tax and duty is not charged on aviation fuel – unlike vehicle, train or maritime fuel. Even citizens of Saudi Arabia or Venezuela no longer can access fuel as cheaply as you do in effect when you fly.
….The question has become mixed with notions of democratisation of leisure. This should be tackled head on. There is no human right to go by air and have a sun soaked holiday on the Med dirt cheap. The Earth cannot afford to indulge the pollution caused by massive air tourism. The unpopularity of saying this means that few people in politics ever do, but it is nonetheless true. In view of climate change, for the public to expect Ryanair fare levels is obscene.
Mass air travel for leisure needs to be stopped. Maritime, rail and other more eco-friendly means of international communication need to be encouraged. As mankind has not even the political will to tackle these most straightforward of measures on climate change, I really do begin to despair for the future.”
Read it all here.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/08/time-to-end-cheap-flights/
The person spending their £30 Barcelona ticket money on diesel for their car may well be creating way fewer nasties but their drive is going to fall way short of Ibiza.
I like our Pacific Islands, I like visiting them. I’d sail there.
Last time in the UK I was passing through. The bus transfer, Heathrow to Luton, about 35 kms? was 22 pounds. The Easyjet flight to Amsterdam was 16 pounds.
I can’t think of anything that has been less subjected to inflation than air travel. I went to Sydney with some mates in the late 70’s. For us to go again tomorrow, the tickets are about the same price. If air travel had been subjected to the same inflationary forces as houses, taxi rides, beer, shoes and speedboats it would cost us $20k to get to Sydney and back.
You are at odds with Craig Murray’s viewpoint.
According to Mr Google, London to Barcelona air and road is about the same distance and a short haul Airbus A319Neo would burn 1.93 L/100 km/passenger.
VOLKSWAGEN Golf Estate diesel would burn around 5 L/100 km.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_aircraft#Short-haul_flights
http://www.fuelmileage.co.uk/list-manufacturers/VOLKSWAGEN
Well researched.
Thank you.
The point is that you ain’t gonna jump in that there “Golf” and pop down to Barcelona for a long weekend. So the fuel comparisons are a bit pointless.
The crime family tRump.
https://www.newsweek.com/now-eric-trump-accused-stealing-cancer-charity-636044
Nonsense.
Look how the bears are celebrating sep11.
When the Mongolians are participating, ya know things are humming.
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/russia-prepares-largest-war-games-since-1981-with-combat-readiness-drills-62576
Good evening The Am Show Myanmar should be shamed into treating there people with humane care 2 wrongs don’t make it right San Suu Kyi has to be pressured into see reality that the world does not like the way people.
I think we should give some support to the AllBlacks we have to compete with nations that have huge audiences couch has seen the money on offer for our players getting out of hand .
That’s the problem in Amecia the goverment has to protect its people before its business interest.
Ka kite ano P,S one reason one should have good manners with that ladys interdict with Nassa
Here you go 1 million electric cars sold in Europe ka pai Norway know’s a good thing when they see it clean cheap to run low maintenance electric vehicles link is below ka kite ano
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/26/electric-cars-exceed-1m-in-europe-as-sales-soar-by-more-than-40-per-cent#top.
Talk about inappropriate! I wonder what the great Theodore Dalrymple
would say if he realized he’d been cited by Stephen Franks.
Who said satire is dead?
http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/theodore-dalrymple-profiles-a-notable-nz-murderer/comment-page-1/#comment-901474
Muppetissey I warned your sandfly m8 that every time they throw there lies and corruption at Eco Maori it will burn there—— and what I have said has come true you and the sandflies are out of your League so shooo away ana to kai
Good evening Newshub If some one is cutting hole’s in my waka and causing a massif leaks I would find the person and throw them out and that’s what Simon is doing .
That’s real shocking what’s happening in Myanmar these people who are causing this un humane disaster should sort there —– and help there tangata whenua out.
That dental trainee campus in Auckland that will provide half price dental care is awesome many thanks to Otago university.
Yes I believe that te mokopuna’s time on computers should be moderated and controlled they need sleep so they can learn at school I would buy learning games for my tamariki half of them did not work my tamariki are all competent computer users now thought .
Well said Ted Ka kite ano
The Crowd Goes Wild James & Mulls You are correct Mulls Lisa is one of the greatest athlete’s of Aotearoa ka pai.
Australia need to revamp the local Rugby game copy others embrace there tangata whenua players is what I say they should do I have heard that its hard to find a Rugby Union competition in some places.
You know your long in the tooth when te tangata are retiring and they are the same age as ones tamiriki ka pai Simon.
All the best to the Tuatara .
Should have known you are a Westie James Ka kite ano