Open Mike 26/12/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, December 26th, 2018 - 132 comments
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132 comments on “Open Mike 26/12/2018 ”

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  1. Morrissey 1
    26 December 2018 at 7:59 am

    Has there ever been a crueler, more cynical Christmas “greeting” than this?

    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/IDF-wishes-Christians-journeying-to-Bethlehem-Merry-Christmas-575416

    • Wayne 1.1
      26 December 2018 at 9:42 am

      The Palestinian Authority and Israel co-operate on lots of things. A large percentage of the West Bank is governed by the PA. In doing so they have to cooperate with Israel. Although Trump may have cut the PA off from assistance, the EU and various European states have not.

      So the scene you have shown is not that unusual.

      For instance it has been quite some time since there were reports of violence in the West Bank. That is a feature of Gaza, but then that is because Hamas continues to foster a state of war. Unlike the PA, Hamas prefers a state of war. But they need to end it. They can’t win and it impoverishes the people of Gaza.

      It wasn’t always like that. Twenty years ago, Gaza had an international airport, a seaport and civil reconstruction. All long gone.

      • Barfly 1.1.1
        26 December 2018 at 10:51 am

        “It wasn’t always like that. Twenty years ago, Gaza had an international airport, a seaport and civil reconstruction. All long gone”

        Yes WAYNE bombed and shelled into rubble by Zionists.

      • KJT 1.1.2
        26 December 2018 at 12:01 pm

        Israel prefers a State of war.

        Get it right Wayne!

        The kids throwing rocks, are their excuse to annex even more Palestinian territory.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.3
        26 December 2018 at 1:18 pm

        The invasion of Israel into Palestine is the cause of the ongoing war.

  2. bwaghorn 2
    26 December 2018 at 9:23 am

    Is there any easy to understand charts out there proving that the carbon taxs and emissions trading schemes have made any real impact on climate change ??

    • Andre 2.1
      26 December 2018 at 9:48 am

      There have been very few carbon taxes and trading schemes actually implemented, and none that I’m aware of at a level that affects the price of fossil fuels enough to really significantly change decisions about their use. For instance, when the ETS was introduced here, it added around $0.075 to a litre of fuel – BFD. The Aussie’s tax would have been around the same level if they hadn’t dumped it straight away.

      The most successful scheme I’m aware of is in Canada’s British Columbia, but even that was a very modest tax with modest results, and it’s been a while since I checked in on how that’s going. I’m pretty sure you’ve got the skilz to check that out without me picking the articles that reinforce my views for you.

      The reason GHG taxes and trading schemes are expected to be effective is because they have been effective in other areas. Such as cleaning up sulphur emissions from power stations.

      https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-political-history-of-cap-and-trade-34711212/

      • Macro 2.1.1
        26 December 2018 at 11:10 am

        I haven’t looked at how BC’s Carbon Tax had been going either for a while – the initial results had been effective – but were they being sustained? So following bw’s and your comments above I had a look.

        Unequivocally’ effective
        Ten years ago, the province became the first jurisdiction in North America to implement a carbon tax. Since then, B.C.’s tax has attracted significant international media attention and academic scrutiny.

        The Economist noted B.C.’s economy had “kept pace with the rest of the country” since the introduction of the tax. In 2016, The New York Times declared the tax “worked as advertised.”

        Research by University of British Columbia professors Werner Antweiler and Sumeet Gulati also found the carbon tax policy to be beneficial.

        “My research has shown unequivocally that it is effective,” Gulati said. “In transportation, it has reduced gasoline consumption. It has made people buy more fuel efficient cars.”

        In their 2016 paper, they found per capita gasoline demand in B.C. decreased by close to 15 per cent between 2007 and 2014. They note their findings are in line with other major academic research on B.C.’s carbon tax.

        https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-s-carbon-tax-a-real-life-rebuttal-to-carbon-pricing-s-political-opponents-some-experts-say-1.4758484

        • bwaghorn 2.1.1.1
          26 December 2018 at 11:56 am

          “”In their 2016 paper, they found per capita gasoline demand in B.C. decreased by close to 15 per cent between 2007 and 2014. They note their findings are in line with other major academic research on B.C.’s carbon tax.””
          I replaced my old 98 model ute with a 2010 model 5 years ago and would have achieved that sort of reduction. So claiming a tax caused thaose numbers above is claiming something that is happening in vehicles would wide .

          • Macro 2.1.1.1.1
            26 December 2018 at 12:14 pm

            You need to compare the reduction in fuel consumption per capita with other provinces in Canada – and you would find that such a reduction is not the case – as you would see if you were to study the academic research.
            One only has to look at the current explosion in the number of 4wds around our cities to see that people are not incentivised to choosing fuel efficient vehicles. There are exceptions – the number of hybrids and EV are increasing slowly. Hybrid taxi’s in particular. However – if you have ever been fortunate enough to visit Vancouver in recent years ,you would note that their car fleet is very focused on smaller, and fuel efficient vehicles. EV charging stations are everywhere, and they have a very good public transport system.

          • Andre 2.1.1.1.2
            26 December 2018 at 12:31 pm

            There certainly is an element to efficiency improvements reducing fuel use.

            But there’s also a clear (inverse) correlation between per capita fuel use and fuel prices. See for example https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=33232

            It would be astonishing if an increase in fuel price due to a tax increase didn’t have the same effect in reducing fuel use as price increase due to exchange rate movements or oil price changes. A tax increase is in fact probably more effective, since everyone expects it to be permanent, whereas oil prices and exchange rates fluctuate.

            Whenever fuel prices are high, there’s always a flurry of articles talking about how buyer demand shifts towards smaller vehicles. Conversely when fuel prices drop there’s a flurry of articles talking about people buying bigger vehicles again. Bit it’s been surprisingly hard to find a good paper properly examining whether that’s real.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.3
            26 December 2018 at 1:37 pm

            David Seymour seems to think rising prices decreases vehicle miles:

            David Seymour: Is the Prime Minister happy that rising petrol prices are reducing people’s driving and, therefore, the country’s carbon emissions?

            Which should happen according to market theory. Don’t think he tabled any evidence though.

      • bwaghorn 2.1.2
        26 December 2018 at 12:15 pm

        Good link .
        Please be patient it takes me a while to get shit .
        Is cap and trade different to an ets and a straight carbon tax .

        • Andre 2.1.2.1
          26 December 2018 at 12:46 pm

          A straight carbon (or greenhouse gas) tax is simplest to understand – you emit it, you pay the government for that emission. It’s a simple idea – you want to damage the atmosphere we all rely on, you pay for that damage.

          Cap and trade and emissions trading schemes are closely related but very different to a tax – the idea is you need to obtain some sort of right to emit. So those rights are issued by some authority in limited numbers (hence a cap) according to some scheme which might be historical emissions, outright purchase or anything dreamed up by some bureaucrats.

          Those rights to emit may then be bought and sold on a secondary market. The idea being that some emitters may have an easy way to reduce their emissions so it makes more sense for them to change what they do and sell their emissions rights, while other emitters may wish to expand their operations and they would find it cheaper to just buy more emissions rights than try to reduce their emissions.

          But all that trading horseshit opens the door wide to dodgy deals like all the bullshit carbon credits we bought from Russia and Ukraine. Fundamentally the idea seems flawed to me, in that the whole concept is built around some sort of “right to emit”. To me, the better way to look at it is all emissions are damaging, and everyone that emits should get given the same solid kick to reduce their emissions. Don’t open the door for weasels to try to get around trying to reduce, just penalise the emissions so all emitters pay the price for the damage they do.

          • bwaghorn 2.1.2.1.1
            26 December 2018 at 1:09 pm

            What’s your view on offsetting.
            I ask because I’ve head it said recently that sheep and beef farmers will be taxed on emissions but planting a tree for every stock unit should cover it .
            I’m trying to arm myself with easy counterpoints to the rants against the coming changes in farming .

            • Andre 2.1.2.1.1.1
              26 December 2018 at 1:25 pm

              I think offsetting is a scam dreamed up to sucker money out of naive greenies that want to kid themselves that all the flying and driving they do can be done without damage to our common environment.

              While it’s possible there may be a few more trees getting planted because of offset schemes (I doubt it), trees should be getting planted because of the standalone merits of doing so. If the carbon they suck out of the atmosphere is worthy of additional reward (and I think it is), then that should be paid from the proceeds of greenhouse gas pricing. But I’m wary of the potential for scam artists to latch onto sucking money from fraudulent tree-growing schemes.

              I know that view isn’t going to be much help in your discussions about the future of farming, sorry.

  3. aj 3
    26 December 2018 at 9:41 am

    Was the Elizabeth Alexandra Mary doing satire last night? Either way, the most wasted 10 minutes of television of the day, and that’s saying something.

  4. James 4
    26 December 2018 at 10:08 am

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2018/12/mixed-reactions-to-dominic-west-s-suggestion-of-trans-james-bond.html

    Calls for a trans James Bond – by god some people are so PC that it defies all logic.

    Strangely I don’t see the same people calling for a male Wonder Woman.

    • KJT 4.1
      26 December 2018 at 10:23 am

      Won’t work.

      How can a trans be credible as a misogynistic, arrogant, emotionless killer, realistically?

      BTW. A female James Bond, has been done.

    • marty mars 4.2
      26 December 2018 at 10:36 am

      Classic rwnj getting worked up about imaginary issues not real ones. Go donate your time for the poor and suffering oh indulgent one

      • James 4.2.1
        26 December 2018 at 10:38 am

        Amusingly enough – it’s the pc idiots that are getting all wound up – is grown ups were fine with how things were.

        And I’m all good with how I spend my time. I’m at the batch with the kids and grandkids – happy as anything.

    • francesca 4.3
      26 December 2018 at 10:37 am

      OK
      A trans displaying toxic masculinity?
      How do we even define what makes someone a woman or a man these days
      If you self identify as that gender ?
      A woman is whatever you want a woman to be?
      If we’re going to be all non binary, where does that leave feminism?

    • Stunned mullet 4.4
      26 December 2018 at 12:29 pm

      How about person Xmas…

      ‘Apparently, according to a recent poll, a lot of people don’t care which gender old Saint Nick is. Gina Battye, an LGBT+ identity coach, tells BBC Three that it’s great that more than 17% of people reportedly want a gender-neutral Santa. Hmm. Which begs the question: What the fuck is an identity coach?’

      http://is-a-cunt.com/2018/12/person-christmas/

  5. alwyn 5
    26 December 2018 at 10:33 am

    When are the Government going to admit that they stuffed the Census completely and take responsibility for the situation?
    Why did the Minister of Statistics totally ignore the only significant job he has and jaunt off overseas to his various junkets instead of keeping track of the Census.
    As Brian Easton says. The best thing to do is to abandon the 2018 results and rerun the Census in 2021.
    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/the-census-flop

    In the meantime the Government must.
    1. Sack the Government Statistician.
    2. Sack the Person responsible for the organisation of the Census.
    3. Sack the Minister responsible. Shaw must go.

    There is an attempt by the CoL to blame it on the previous Government. Claims are that they cut the budget. Actually the amount allocated went up from $90m in 2013 to $120m in 2018. The Col had 6 months to fix any perceived problems from the time they took the reins until the date of the Census and do the job properly. Instead they spent a further 9 months since then pretending there was nothing wrong. Now it is claimed that there is insufficient time to do it properly in 2021.
    Well quit and let someone else do it properly.

    And in the meantime stop blaming the previous Government. The blame falls on the Department, on the “Honourable” James Shaw and on the leaders of the Labour Party for putting the fool in a job that was far beyond his ability.
    Jacinda, you also should stand up and apologise for the a major stuff-up by your Government. Alternatively why don’t you also step down and hand over the title, as well as the pay, to the de facto PM, Tsar Winston?

    • marty mars 5.1
      26 December 2018 at 11:00 am

      Jeepers mate Santa a bit stingy eh

      Sad to see your great intellect wasted on this trivia.

      • Macro 5.1.1
        26 December 2018 at 11:16 am

        I’ll bet National are relieved they are not in Govt. Just imagine the vitriol that they would have received from alwyn on this matter following an even greater stuff up!
        Oh wait!

        • alwyn 5.1.1.1
          26 December 2018 at 11:47 am

          IF National had remained in Government and IF there had been a stuff-up of this magnitude I would have been much more vitriolic than this.

          But they aren’t in Government and we can never know what would have happened. All the Census results from 2013 were OK tends to imply they wouldn’t have been OK if they had remained in power.

          When National screwed up, as they did over the America’s cup financing I was just as unhappy with them as I am with the Coalition of Losers.

          In general I was in favour of a change of Government last year. They had been in office for 9 years and were getting rather tired. The problem was I didn’t think that there was a competent alternative. That view has turned out to be right. Labour and its allies had spent 9 years doing nothing and were totally unprepared for being in power.
          After all look at the fiascos going on in anything that Twyford gets near. Waiting lists for social housing going up by 50% in the last year are only one of the more spectacular examples of the man’s stupidity.

          • KJT 5.1.1.1.1
            26 December 2018 at 12:08 pm

            Nothing to do with National selling off State houses, of course. So their private sector mates could make a killing off tax payer funded rental subsidies.

            Takes much more than a year, to reverse nine years of deliberate destruction.

            Though I agree Twford is not the most competent Minister, he looks like an intellectual giant compared with National’s lineup.

            Bridges is the best they have. FFS.

            I never saw you complaining, when National made a total snafu of housing!

          • KJT 5.1.1.1.2
            26 December 2018 at 12:08 pm

            Nothing to do with National selling off State houses, of course. So their private sector mates could make a killing off tax payer funded rental subsidies.

            Takes much more than a year, to reverse nine years of deliberate destruction.

            Though I agree Twford is not the most competent Minister, however he looks like an intellectual giant compared with National’s lineup.

            Bridges is the best they have. FFS.

            I never saw you complaining, when National made a total snafu of housing!

            • alwyn 5.1.1.1.2.1
              26 December 2018 at 12:15 pm

              Repeating your comment doesn’t make it any more sensible you know.
              The waiting list comparison was, if my memory is correct, between November 2017 and November 2018.
              Just how did National “sell of State Houses during this time that they were in Opposition”?

          • Macro 5.1.1.1.3
            26 December 2018 at 12:34 pm

            Have you any idea how long it takes, or how much it costs, to develop a nation-wide census? It’s not something that can be put together in a few months. And it’s not something that should be done on the cheap. The decision to have a computer based survey was made, not by this government, but by National – purely on the basis of cost cutting. Shaw was handed a hospital pass by the out going National Govt, and the fiasco that was inevitable by choosing to think that a successful survey could be achieved in such a manner was certainly not his doing, but the idiots who thought that everyone has access to a computer and are computer literate. This sort of intellectual snobbery is brilliantly demonstrated in the movie “I Daniel Blake”. While many of us are happy to work, and communicate on-line, the plain fact is that there is a significant minority of folks who either have no access to the internet, or who have no understanding of how it all works – even if they did.

            • OnceWasTim 5.1.1.1.3.1
              26 December 2018 at 1:03 pm

              Yep, I was wondering about that @ Macro because I was out of the country in one of the World’s ‘whops’ for a few months at the time, and I’d left just after the election.
              So Alwyn’s expectation is that with all the crap an incoming government has to deal with – you know – like going through all those facile PEBs and all, they then have to take responsibility for the planning that went on under the previous junta.
              The census does seem to have been (yet another) complete fuckup, but it’s a bloody big stretch to sheet? all that home to an incoming government.

              • alwyn …
                26 December 2018 at 2:38 pm

                Macro has clearly great ability in writing historical fiction.
                Pity it has so little to do with reality of course.

                Shaw was in the job for nearly 6 months prior to the Census date. It was the only important thing in any of his “ministerial” roles that had to be done.
                Why did he waste all his time on little things in minor functions and ignore, apparently, the only important matter?
                Then why did he, and the Department, happily announce, in total contempt for all the evidence that everything was fine for the almost nine months that followed?
                If I, not involved and only an interested and intelligent onlooker, realised it was stuffed-up in March how could the supposed experts, and their acolytes on sites like this, not realise it and admit it to the public for another 9 months?
                Shaw announced, on some occasions when he deigned to stay in NZ that everything was wonderful. Why did he lie to us? He and his Department must have known the execution of the exercise was irremediably flawed. Why didn’t they say so and get on with organising a repeat. They would have had 3 years before a rerun in 2021.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  26 December 2018 at 3:09 pm

                  Macro has clearly great ability in writing historical fiction.

                  That would be you as you run around trying to prove that it wasn’t National that planned the whole fuckup.

                • Sacha …
                  26 December 2018 at 5:05 pm

                  Alwyn, the planning for the census was all done before Shaw was involved. Call for the previous Minister’s scalp if you must.

      • alwyn 5.1.2
        26 December 2018 at 12:04 pm

        “wasted on this trivia”.
        Do you seriously think that the Census is “Trivia”?
        Jesus wept. You are certainly behaving like a total idiot.

        • Ad 5.1.2.1
          26 December 2018 at 12:08 pm

          Will make more electorate seats in 2020 unlikely, because redistricting will be too inaccurate.

        • Robert Guyton 5.1.2.2
          26 December 2018 at 12:20 pm

          “Jesus wept”?
          Apparently at this point in his career, the days of his birth, he didn’t (“The little Lord Jesus, no crying He makes” – Away in a manger)

        • bwaghorn 5.1.2.3
          26 December 2018 at 12:24 pm

          Well it must be trivia because if it was taken seriously why did the last government not know that we aren’t training enough teachers and doctors etc and not building enough houses and basic infrastructure to cope .

        • marty mars 5.1.2.4
          26 December 2018 at 1:04 pm

          Only an idiot thinks the census is used in the way they describe – it SHOULD be for planning but is really just a snapshot in time , a recordl. It also supplies retired actuaries some stats to distort for politican gains.

      • Bewildered 5.1.3
        26 December 2018 at 12:45 pm

        Old farty Bars in a good trolling mood today

    • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2
      26 December 2018 at 11:11 am

      Best of luck with your New Year’s resolutions Alwyn, and don’t forget about ILG. Seems that Chris T‘s 6th of November prophesy that ILG would be “gone in a couple of weeks” was inaccurate – who would have thunk it?

      https://thestandard.org.nz/simons-sure-fire-way-to-deal-with-difficult-questions/#comment-1547276

      “When you wish upon a star…”

      “It dawned on me, ‘I know this script, I helped write this script.’ At that point, I felt bad for what I did to Todd. But that’s the modus operandi of the National Party – when people become a liability you push them out the door.”

      • alwyn 5.2.1
        26 December 2018 at 12:01 pm

        Where on earth does that quote come from? Or is it just something your imagination has dredged up in your more extreme fantasies about Simon Bridges?

        The problem has with Lees-Galloway is that he might not vanish into oblivion quietly. He just might come out and explain just why he approved the ratbag being allowed to stay in New Zealand and precisely who it was that ordered him to do it.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.1.1
          26 December 2018 at 1:34 pm

          That quote is from a formerly 7th-ranked opposition National party MP, one Jami-lee Ross; heard of him?

          Just for you, Alwyn, I’ll repeat the quote, with attribution. It’s pure troll disinfectant, and the mention of Todd (de)Baclay reinforces just how bad the corruption of National’s corpse is. It’s very sad for NZ.

          “It dawned on me, ‘I know this script, I helped write this script.’ At that point, I felt bad for what I did to Todd. But that’s the modus operandi of the National Party – when people become a liability you push them out the door.” – Jami-lee Ross (October 2018), former National party senior whip.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12145569

          • alwyn 5.2.1.1.1
            26 December 2018 at 2:44 pm

            That has about as much sense to it as did the unlamented Chris Carter talking about Phil Goff in about 2010. Every Party gets a few idiots who live in their own little fantasy worlds.
            Luckily most of them don’t stay for very long.

            • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2.1.1.1.1
              26 December 2018 at 10:43 pm

              Alwyn, are you calling the former National party senior whip an idiot? Has he always been an idiot, or did he become an idiot only after recent comments?

              Seems smart as a whip to me, and about to become very wealthy indeed – one more National party rags-to-riches story that you really should be celebrating.

              • alwyn …
                27 December 2018 at 9:30 am

                I certainly am calling Ross an idiot.
                He was an idiot with delusions of grandeur apparently.
                I have no idea what he was like earlier. I don’t think I had ever heard of him before this year.
                Anyone with ideas of succeeding in politics should be able to understand that knifing your leader when you can’t kill him is not a career enhancing move.

                “Seems smart as a whip to me”. I guess, when you are a Labour Party fan, he would seem smart. After all he would seem quite clever to me when I compare him to someone like Twyford.

                • Drowsy M. Kram …
                  27 December 2018 at 7:32 pm

                  JLR became a National party MP in March 2011, and Alwyn first heard of him in 2018, indicating selective voids in Alwyn’s awareness of NZ politics.

                  Has Alwyn heard of Dr Yang., the National party spokeperson for Statistics, and how closely do Dr Yang’s opinions on the 2018 census match Alwyn’s@5?

                  https://www.national.org.nz/minister_s_leadership_of_census_2018_abysmal

                  Note Dr Yang isn’t calling for Dr Shaw to be sacked; Alwyn’s on his own there.

                  In my opinion JLT has indeed demonstrated that he is “sharp as a whip” – why Alwyn seems reluctant to accept a genuine compliment about the intelligence of a (former) high-ranking Natioanl party MP is beyond me, although to be fair you wouldn’t catch me complimenting Bridges or Bennett for their intelligence.

        • Sacha 5.2.1.2
          26 December 2018 at 5:08 pm

          Who ordered it? My money’s on the illuminati.

          • alwyn 5.2.1.2.1
            26 December 2018 at 5:44 pm

            “The illuminati”
            Ah, ha.
            In that case I suppose that Tom Hanks will be along shortly to fix it all up.

    • KJT 5.3
      26 December 2018 at 11:34 am

      It was all planned, set up and funding allocated under National. Right wingers have such short memories.

      • alwyn 5.3.1
        26 December 2018 at 11:57 am

        “funding allocated under National”.
        That’s right they allocated $120 million for the Census. That was a great deal more that the $90 million they put in for the 2013 Census wasn’t it?
        But Ms Ardern says that they cut the budget. She really is as useless in arithmetic as she is in everything else isn’t she?

        However the CoL appointed a new Minister and he never even requested anything in writing about how the Census was going. He was far to busy arranging his taxpayer funded overseas trips to attend pointless meetings in exotic places than to spend any time on the most important activity he, as a Minister, was responsible for.
        Cop the blame Mr Ward. ‘Fess up to your inadequacy and resign.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.3.2
        26 December 2018 at 2:27 pm

        It’s not that they have short memories but that they refuse to take responsibility for their actions.

        • alwyn 5.3.2.1
          26 December 2018 at 2:55 pm

          Weren’t you one of those who assured us that everything would be fine and that statisticians could easily correct for the missing data?
          Since the search function died it has been a bit hard to check those things. Probably saves a lot of the CoL lovers some acute embarrassment of course.
          They can quietly forget the statements they made

          • Draco T Bastard 5.3.2.1.1
            26 December 2018 at 3:07 pm

            Weren’t you one of those who assured us that everything would be fine and that statisticians could easily correct for the missing data?

            Yep, I was. They seem to have done so for much of the data, are still working on some and won’t have some.

            It’s not the end of the world.

            BTW, citation needed for the budget figures you quoted.

            • alwyn 5.3.2.1.1.1
              26 December 2018 at 5:38 pm

              “BTW, citation needed for the budget figures you quoted.”

              How about the following?
              “The total five-year budget for the census, granted by the previous National government, was $120m. It’s difficult to compare census budgets, which rise and fall with each cycle, but the previous census in 2013 cost about $90m.”
              https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/109587285/stats-nz-says-planned-cost-cutting-unlikely-to-produce-successful-census-in-future

              I can’t really be bothered working through all the estimates, and supplementary estimates, for about 10 years to see whether the numbers are correct.
              I think the Stats Department are desperately trying to find something, anything, that they can claim so that they save their jobs.

    • Ad 5.4
      26 December 2018 at 12:01 pm

      Holding the Minister of Statistics accountable is as likely as the Greens harpooning a dolphin.

      • alwyn 5.4.1
        26 December 2018 at 12:11 pm

        You are probably correct. Green MPs have never been known to take responsibility for their actions in the past.
        Look at how the only Green MPs who thought that Turei’s actions were unacceptable were treated by the party. Out with them!
        Instead a taxpayer cheating crook was held up as an object to be deified. Why was she never prosecuted by the way?

        However at the moment I am a great deal more concerned about the problems caused by the Census being stuffed up and the problems that it is going to cause with Governmental actions until we get a Census that is accurate.

        • Ad 5.4.1.1
          26 December 2018 at 12:21 pm

          It’s small beans Alwyn.
          That’s why the Greens have that Ministry.
          Everyone who does well graduates, generally.

          It won’t affect the massive redistribution coming in Budget 2019.

          Shaw will get his carbon bill through – it’s all the Greens will do of any note this term.

        • Robert Guyton 5.4.1.2
          26 December 2018 at 12:25 pm

          Scabs are your body’s natural system of healing, alwyn; stop ripping them off and exposing them to our view – we’re beginning to suspect you’ve got leprosy!

          • alwyn 5.4.1.2.1
            26 December 2018 at 5:57 pm

            It isn’t my body with the scabs, Robert. It seems that you are talking about the Stats Dept and their political overlord.

            Looking at the definition of “Body Public” I imagine that the Stats Department might be one of those.
            “A body organization or agency that is financed by a form of government acts independently of it and has the responsibility to report key data evidence facts statistics to the government and is accountable for their role responsibility and objectives.”

            That sounds pretty close to what they do. Given that sunlight is supposed to the best disinfectant it would seem to be an excellent idea to shine a very bright light on their, and their Minister’s, failures.
            Now let’s clean house and start the process again. All change for the Thorndon Line.

            How is that for a hodge podge of mixed metaphors?

        • KJT 5.4.1.3
          26 December 2018 at 12:31 pm

          Getting a bit piste, are you Alwyn?

        • KJT 5.4.1.4
          26 December 2018 at 12:34 pm

          In your right wing fantasy world.

          Where only the poor have to take, “personal responsibility” despite the enormous pressure they are placed under.

          Turei was trying to ensure that people, in future, wouldn’t be forced into those sort of situations.

          • alwyn 5.4.1.4.1
            26 December 2018 at 3:02 pm

            It certainly took her a very long time to talk about it didn’t it?
            The fraud apparently took place when her child was a baby. She finally admitted to it when her daughter was 24.
            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11893562
            More than 20 years before you try and claim that you were only doing it so that others wouldn’t.
            That was really planning ahead. Pity that even when she did so she lied about and insulted the family of the babies father who had supplied her with a huge amount of support.

            • KJT 5.4.1.4.1.1
              27 December 2018 at 10:43 am

              It is actually funny, when you get all excited about that. Hypocrisy, much!

              And ignore fraudsters like English, who took the tax payer for much more.

              Or, Key. Whose path to fortune cost every New Zealander, thousands. But that was legal, Eh!

              Or the banks. Whose tax evasion cost, billions!

              But then they are rich white men, not a poor, Maori, solo mother.

              • alwyn …
                27 December 2018 at 9:24 pm

                “not a poor, Maori, solo mother”.
                Gosh, you will soon have me bursting into tears
                However when I consider the matter.
                She wasn’t poor. The father of her child. and his family were providing very generous support, as I understand it.
                She was Maori. True.
                She was only a solo mother by choice.
                She made no attempt at all to actually try and provide for her daughter by her own efforts. She relied on the taxpayer and her “in-laws” to do that. Meanwhile she studied and spent her spare time, not in a part time job, but in running for Parliament as a representative of a couple of joke parties.
                She ripped off the taxpayer as fast as she could.
                By the way. Perhaps you can tell us whether she ever repaid the money she stole.
                I doubt it. She might have said she would but keeping promises was far, far from that persons mind.
                She was a disgrace to herself and to New Zealand.

                • KJT …
                  27 December 2018 at 11:48 pm

                  Really.

                  Then what do you think of already wealthy MP’s, who use their position for their own gain?

                  • alwyn …
                    28 December 2018 at 1:10 am

                    I suggest you talk to Helen Clark, or Michael Cullen.
                    Ask Helen whether she is a tax resident of New Zealand or whether she spends more that half her time in the USA.
                    Ask “Sir” Michael why he doesn’t pay any tax on his Super.

                    • KJT …
                      28 December 2018 at 11:17 am

                      Hypocritical whataboutery.

                      National MP’s have been caught with their actual fingers in the till.

                      If you want to play this game.

                      What about Paula cut your benefit? Didn’t she have help from relatives while on welfare? Just like almost every other beneficiary.

                      As for working for “joke” political parties!

        • Draco T Bastard 5.4.1.5
          26 December 2018 at 2:33 pm

          The Greens always take responsibility for their actions.

          It’s the RWNJs that always blame others for their actions.

          Same as what you’re doing here.

      • KJT 5.4.2
        26 December 2018 at 12:44 pm

        Why?

        The whole census was set up and planned under National.

        The online idea was theirs.

        As a past census enumerator, my wife was privy to the planning.

        She said, over a year ago, that it is going to be a fuckup.

        Just one of many by the previous Government.

        Only a blind NACT, apologist, can think it has anything to do with the current Government.

        • Ad 5.4.2.1
          26 December 2018 at 12:54 pm

          Because he is Minister.

          It’s the job. $250k+.

          You suck it up and correct it.

          Shaw didn’t try hard enough when the terms and questions and project were getting underway, so he has to eat it now.

          • KJT 5.4.2.1.1
            26 December 2018 at 1:50 pm

            It was already done FFS.

            No doubt with one of Nationals “useful idiots” they promoted beyond their competence level, in charge, like so much of our current, State services. Assuring the Minister all is fine!

            • Ad 5.4.2.1.1.1
              26 December 2018 at 5:49 pm

              If he can’t alter his own department he should resign.

              The project was a long way from implementation when he came to office.

              Only strong Ministers kill projects.
              Shaw just didn’t have the strength.

              Theres only three strong Ministers in this government, and the census shows Shaw ain’t one of them.

          • Sacha 5.4.2.1.2
            26 December 2018 at 5:11 pm

            The project was ‘getting underway’ years ago. Don’t be a dolt.

            • Ad 5.4.2.1.2.1
              26 December 2018 at 5:51 pm

              On his watch, in his power to change.

              Fail.

              • Sacha …
                26 December 2018 at 6:23 pm

                Nothing much we can do for your comprehension of how government works, sadly.

              • Macro …
                26 December 2018 at 7:10 pm

                Ad, had Shaw attempted to amend the procedure by which the Census was to be carried out, in the 6 months he had, it would have been an even bigger fuck up than it was going to be. Last minute changes to a complex plan are almost invariably certain to lead to an even greater disaster.
                Obviously he was assured by his officials that everything was in place, and it was all going to be fine. But this was a huge experiment, and it proved that while many people were fine with the way the data was collected, the fact remains that for a significant minority, computer based surveys are the completely wrong way to go – they either have no access and/or are completely computer illiterate. Furthermore the fact that so many are now homeless – a direct result of National’s policies – meant that around 1% of the population were untargeted.

                • Exkiwiforces …
                  26 December 2018 at 8:14 pm

                  “they either have no access and/or are completely computer illiterate. Furthermore the fact that so many are now homeless – a direct result of National’s policies – meant that around 1% of the population were untargeted.”

                  I think you are on to something there Macro IRT “The No Mates Party” could’ve been trying to fudge the numbers IOT deny those people access to healthcare, education and welfare etc via reduced funding to those various departments and therefore deny there is problem as those poor souls don’t exist because the census figures say so.

                • Ad …
                  26 December 2018 at 8:27 pm

                  He did try and commented at the time that it was too late.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  27 December 2018 at 1:24 am

                  …they either have no access and/or are completely computer illiterate.

                  In this day and age nobody should be computer illiterate. Computers just aren’t that hard to use.

                  And they can go to the library to get access.

                  • Macro …
                    27 December 2018 at 6:32 am

                    In this day and age nobody should be computer illiterate. Computers just aren’t that hard to use.

                    And they can go to the library to get access.

                    And that was the arrogant thinking that lead directly to the resulting stuff up.

                    Have you any idea of how many people who are over 80 there are in this country? Many of them have never been near a computer, my sister for a start, and she is one of the 1% ers. and could easily afford the very best computer and the fastest broadband. Her husband is older and left school to work on the family farm at 14. A capable person in many respects – but completely computer illiterate.
                    That story is replicated across the country. Here in Thames (with the highest percentage of seniors in the country) I can assure you that there were many people for whom the census represented a severe challenge. Some even had their own computer and internet access, but they use them solely to send emails to their children – and some are even brave enough to skype with the family overseas – but to use a computer, to log into a site, and answer a questionnaire is completely beyond their skill level. I know many of them personally.
                    But it is not just the the elderly. There are even more who have little to no access to computing, because they have never had to use one in their daily lives. Add in the numbers of dyslexic, and those who have been to school but never learned to read, – you would be surprised just how many there are. The 40,000+ who are homeless. You begin to see that there are a significant minority who either will never be able to complete an online survey, or will be sufficiently challenged, that they could never begin the process in the first place.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      27 December 2018 at 12:50 pm

                      Have you any idea of how many people who are over 80 there are in this country?

                      When I was on Xtra’s help-desk I had an 85 year old ring in and ask me to help connect her to the internet. It was her first computer.

                      When I was on the Census help-desk I had people in their 70s and 80s ringing up and asking for help to get through the online forms and when we’d finished them say oh, was that it? that was easy wasn’t it?

                      Many of the elder people I’ve met have that can do attitude that we like to tell ourselves we all have. Of course, I’ve met people younger than me who whinge about how hard it is as well.

                      but to use a computer, to log into a site, and answer a questionnaire is completely beyond their skill level.

                      And I helped many people through. That’s what the help-desk was for.

                      There are even more who have little to no access to computing, because they have never had to use one in their daily lives.

                      I find that hard to believe.
                      How do they access their bank account?
                      Their library?
                      Their job?
                      Hell, you can’t even get WINZ help without a phone.

                      The 40,000+ who are homeless.

                      Most of them will have smart-phones and Stats did send people around to where homeless and freedom campers were known to congregate.

                      Here’s the thing: Using the internet is no harder than reading a friggen book.

                      And I’m pretty sure that most of the people whinging about using computers as being too hard can read a friggen book.

                      The ones that are dyslexic or illiterate could ask for help.

                      Really, stop whinging about it not being the 19th century any more and start living in the now.

                    • I feel love []
                      27 December 2018 at 3:54 pm

                      My parents are in their mid 60s and have never used a computer, why would they? Social media is baffling and pointless, they bank at the bank, they shop in shops. Not everyone fucks around on blogs all day.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      27 December 2018 at 5:31 pm

                      My parents are in their mid 60s and have never used a computer, why would they?

                      Because this isn’t the 19th century any more?

                      With online shopping neither banks nor shops are viable as they simply cost too much to run. Especially banks where an algorithm is probably a better advisor than a flesh bag.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.4.3
        26 December 2018 at 2:31 pm

        Considering that the one who needs to be held responsible is the previous minister who planned the fuckup then you’re probably right.

    • Draco T Bastard 5.5
      26 December 2018 at 2:18 pm

      When are the Government going to admit that they stuffed the Census completely and take responsibility for the situation?

      Considering that it was all planned under National and before the election why would they admit that it was their fault?

      There is an attempt by the CoL to blame it on the previous Government.

      It was the previous government that fucked things up.

      The Col had 6 months to fix any perceived problems from the time they took the reins until the date of the Census and do the job properly.

      You’re assuming that they already knew that National had fucked it up and had plans to fix it all whereas in reality it being stuffed probably came as much as a surprise to them as to the rest of the country.

      National fucked it up and now they’re trying to pass the blame on to the current government. Engaging in their normal personal responsibility that they’re so fond of.

  6. bwaghorn 6
    26 December 2018 at 12:45 pm

    Oh my I just turned the cricket on. 😭

  7. joe90 7
    26 December 2018 at 10:31 pm

    Prick’s a fucking fraud.

    Over the years Jimmy made dozens of vids on Syria, with catchy titles like "Truth about Syria", and got millions of clicks on them.Yesterday Dore admitted that he only now learned about Rojava and YPG Kurds, meaning he actually never bothered to do any research on the issue. pic.twitter.com/oNZff0D6Zm— Class Reductionist (@Nitzky89) December 23, 2018

    https://twitter.com/Nitzky89/status/1076926963565113344

  8. eco maori 8
    27 December 2018 at 11:09 am

    Solar power is the clean green power of the future mokopuna’s it was pleasing to see a lot of maori Tamariki choseing the Sciences to study for there future jobs indigenous cultures solve problems in a unique fashion . I say nurturing indigenous cultures sciences will inprove everyone life.
    Solar power in New Zealand currently contributes 0.2 percent to the country’s overall electricity generation. In the 2016 calendar year, an estimated 52 GWh of solar-generated electricity was contributed to the national grid, out of a total of 41,400 GWh.[1]
    Although there are no subsidies, the declining costs of photovoltaics has caused a large increase in demand over the last few years. In 2009, the average turnkey price for a standard PV system of three kilowatts (kW) was about NZ$40,000, and has since dropped significantly to NZ$9,000.[2] As of April 2018, 1,385 MW of solar power has been installed in New Zealand. 19,134 solar power systems have been installed, 17,817 are residential systems.[3]

    Buy-back rates for solar power exported to the grid range from 7 cents to 12 cents[6]. Cost-effectiveness of a residential solar power occurs when system owners aim to use more of their solar power than what they export, by means of timed appliances, turning on appliances when the sun is out, energy management systems and battery storage. Commercial buildings that use power during the day can get a high return on their investment.[7]
    A 2015 study found that PV was more economical than grid supply if all the PV electricity was used on site and none was exported to the grid. For residential and commercial installations, improving energy efficiency is a lower cost option than PV.
    Ka kite ano links below

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/16/divestment-fossil-fuel-industry-trillions-dollars-investments-carbon

  9. Eco Maori 9
    27 December 2018 at 5:00 pm

    Some Eco Maori Music for the minute

  10. eco maori 10
    27 December 2018 at 5:48 pm

    Kia ora Piripi from Te kaea yes Auckland has not keep up the systems needed to cope with storm water that over flows and dumps sewage in the beaches
    I it is ka pai that MPI is taking protecting our Paua from poaching seriously its big money overseas.
    Eco maori backs Puhoro maori science teaching program it will be money well spent as the teacher can connect with our tamariki the will learn and earn higher credits .
    I like that add stop a mate driving drunk its cool that its has come from Tairawhiti yes mates have a big influnce on each other.
    Yes we must learn to respect Tangaroa I know that I am not as fit or as good at diving as I could 20 years ago I make sure to have a spotter when I dive now .
    Aotearoa had a good sports season this year 2018 Ka kite ano

  11. Eco Maori 11
    27 December 2018 at 6:41 pm

    Kia ora Newshub That hot air balloon accident in Australia look like they had a big fright and were lucky no one died.
    It was no secret that trump went to Iraq he tweeted about it I seen a video on his speech while he was there.
    The mount Etna eruptions is natural phenomen Italy has had a few natural events lately
    Yes the Fire season in Aotearoa has started people will be very careful .
    China is showing how tec will change the way we buy stuff online is the way of the future it is not taking off as fast in Aotearoa like other countrys as it takes just 10 minutes to get to a shop in Aotearao Ka kite ano Bolt is having a good game of cricket Niki

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