Open Mike 27/05/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 27th, 2018 - 141 comments
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141 comments on “Open Mike 27/05/2018”

  1. DB 1

    Yesterday I lifted a broken path out with a spade and a wheelbarrow. It took just over an hour.

    Friday I met a Government contractor who, when I suggested a spade instead of a 3 ton digger looked horrified and said “But, that’s manual labor”.

    Herein lies a very large problem. So called grown men, so called working men, who are in fact: babies. Where did they learn to be so shit?

    Where I come from hard work is its own reward with fitness and pride coming as well as cash and camaraderie – it’s all good. Who is teaching people to be so shit?

    Something seriously wrong when people are afraid of real work, then half of them go to the gym. Mentally ill?

    • Cinny 1.1

      Mental ill… no….. lazy maybe, or possibly the lack of an audience, unlike the gym.

      • greywarshark 1.1.1

        It’s a class thing. Modern men drive machines, get out of their cars to exercise and keep strong, and get on an expensive mountain or touring bike, pedal or fancy Harley Davidson. They don’t pick up a yard broom to sweep leaves, you
        point a mechanised blower at them. Manual work is for losers.

        It’s the attitude that grew the turncoat treasonable Labour defectors, Douglas et al. That is how they convinced themselves they were being progressive.

        • Cinny 1.1.1.1

          Thanks, Grey for explaining, appreciate that 🙂

          Was thinking later on that if I had a digger/access to one, or money was no issue then absolutely I would use it/hire a digger over a spade.

          Depends on the tools available.

    • bwaghorn 1.2

      Fuck I’ve grafted all my days but id take a digger over a spade any day . I work for an old falla who insists I drag sheep over the board instead of use the sheep handler .
      Maybe you should live in a cave and walk every where as you obviously long for the good old days

      • Gabby 1.2.1

        That’s why the work costs so much and takes so long waggy. Compliance issues with a spade would take up little smootharse time.

        • bwaghorn 1.2.1.1

          Say that worker damages his back on the spade to the point he can’t do his job . His boss will have to let him go at some point ,80% of his wages is all acc will pay and it’s possible a chunk of his wages will be in nontaxable allowances so he may actually be down to 60% of his take home wage .
          Now as he s not an all black or rich he’ll only get the minimum of medical help at it will take ages to get it .

          • Gabby 1.2.1.1.1

            Say that worker drives the digger into overhead lines waggy. Or tips it into the ditch. Or backs out into traffic. Or ruptures a gas line.

          • cleangreen 1.2.1.1.2

            I am with bwaghown in this debate, as I aklso was all my life a ‘graffter’ and now at 73 have a broken back shoulders, knees and hands.

            I suffered from a hernia when I worked at manapouri as a electrician and got a type of hernia lifting a very large battery out of a tunnel drilling platform that no other machine nor digger could extract out of the craddle it was siiting in under the engine all while , the drillking platform was kept in oeration.

            Later when I was in pain, at the surgeons clinic afterwards he said in Winton,
            – “sir this is an injury that is so risky to operate on and I advise you learn to live with it, and not lift heavy objects any more” – I was 22 yrs old then.

            Do not engage in heavy work or dangerous activities when you rely a ‘trade or activity’ – for income is my advice as you will be ruined by it.

        • greywarshark 1.2.1.2

          Balance in everything. That ole’ farmer is no doubt the sort that is behind the determination of a significant group of farmers to not follow the sensible rules set by government with obvious negative outcomes and further does not treat his workers or his animals with respect.

    • Pat 1.3

      Illustrative?….yes ,it appears overkill to use machinery for a job that is relatively easy to do by hand and yes there is risk of injury and worn bodies from manual labour….and then theres the ongoing complaints of the skill levels and costs of having work done.

      Its a grey old world, perception is reality and theres always decisions to be made.

      • DB 1.3.1

        Excellent. It is good to get the perspective of others on this. I’ve grafted a few decades but I also switched it up a lot to keep myself interested and to rest some muscles while thrashing others. While due care and attention is required, there’s also an element of luck to not being knackered after hard graft. I put my back out under load one time, only twisted the slightest bit and that was me gone for months. Another time I’m hauling some gib and the wind caught it and twisted for me. Not good…

        I loved getting in the trucks loading out rock concerts banging out 10, 20, 30 containers of gear and breaking tour records. Some of those boys I met died on the road. There’s an element of risk to anything really. But it’s a matter of pride being good at what you do. Those boys know how to graft. Graft hard at whatever you do what’s the point in being fucking mediocre.

        Safety I get, these guys, nope.

        This issue is also about grift, as well as graft. One contractor with the (3 1/2 ton, ~ $100 per hour) digger, and the truck to transport it. Another contractor, with a helper, to do the boxing. I’m hoping he’ll also lay the concrete… Maybe it is someone else I’m sure they’ll need to use a wheelbarrow at some stage the truck won’t fit down there so there’s that quandary (manual labor) for him. Maybe even a separate gravel contractor, then the pour. The concrete pour will be followed by an inspector and more than likely an inspector inspector. I am not kidding one bit.

        When they painted (eaves, windows, under eaves): One lot put up the scaffold. Another lot trimmed (pulled out, while contracted not to) the plants. Another lot painted – Lack of basic cutting in, etc. Then an inspector. Then an inspectors inspector. Then they always try to bring the painter back to do something again to justify the inspectors inspector bullshit role. So you see a small job turns into a massive clusterfuck of nonsense – and billing.

        When lifting concrete it’s actually easier than other heavy stuff that you can’t hit with a hammer when it’s too big. This was just over an hours work for one, there was two of them.

        Not safety, softies.

        • Pat 1.3.1.1

          “This issue is also about grift, as well as graft.”

          Theres that…..and corporate advantage…and greywarshark’s point of manual work being for losers has its place as well.

          The road to hell is paved with good intentions (and unintended(?) consequences)

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11766950

          oh the irony

          • DB 1.3.1.1.1

            There’s certainly the risk of wrist injuries when trying to increase your pecs haha. But I’ve worked in a gym (cleaner, but got gym tickets and loads of time with trainers cos go hard when you’re there you know). I’ve done a shit ton of stuff…

            I do agree with comments that life on the tools is harsh on bodies, and improvements in that direction can only be good.

            Am I a dinosaur? Maybe. For the most part I’ve been able to call the shots on laboring where I’d do a stint get the cheque and go do something different once I’d had enough (styled after Barry Crump’s Sam Cash). So labor (mostly) kept me in great shape instead of taxed me. Perhaps I could exhibit the art of humping rocks at MOTAT.

            A lot of work used to have decent contract rates, so you could go like the clappers to do x amount, then stop. Today, boss owns you for the hours, not the work. And the hours are long just to make ends meet. That’ll break a body. Rest is a crucial part of exercise.

            Just not ALL day. Balance. I’m not totally against progress, just…

            YOU KIDS NEED TO GET OUT OF MY DAMN YARD!

        • greywarshark 1.3.1.2

          DB
          You would enjoy George Orwell’s Down and Out in Paris and London if you haven’t read it.

          It’s available on Gutenberg for Australia but don’t know if NZ allows it.
          http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks01/0100171h.html

          This is Chapter 14. I found it good if I put it into Page preview for printing, and then easily adjust size of font and good for reading.
          http://www.telelib.com/authors/O/OrwellGeorge/prose/DownandOut/downandout_14.html

          • DB 1.3.1.2.1

            “Whenever one pays more than, say, ten francs for a dish of meat in Paris, one may be certain that it has been fingered in this manner.”

            So many amazing quotes. That is gold, thank you.

            And I can see the first link too. Excellent.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.4

      Where I come from hard work is its own reward with fitness and pride coming as well as cash and camaraderie – it’s all good.

      And in the real world manual labour destroys people’s bodies and shortens their life:
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2092511/
      http://healthland.time.com/2013/04/19/physically-demanding-jobs-are-linked-to-higher-risk-of-heart-disease/

      Why are you demanding that people sacrifice themselves for no benefit?

      • DB 1.4.1

        Sacrificing themselves for no benefit?

        You also quoted me. Do you need a paraphrase?

        Money, good relations, health, getting fit as. Exercise is also linked to many health benefits, there’s always a spectrum.

        I aint asking them to go down the mines.

        And what the fuck good is a worker who won’t work. Really?

        • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1.1

          Sacrificing themselves for no benefit?

          That’s right – no benefit. It could be done by machine without causing serious damage to the person doing it and be done faster.

          Money, good relations, health, getting fit as.

          Taking longer to get more money isn’t particularly efficient.
          I’m pretty sure that the people who turn up to do the job will get on reasonably well.
          It damages peoples health which is my point and the point of the articles I linked to. You’re just spouting belief that is wrong.

          And what the fuck good is a worker who won’t work.

          They do work – just not in the way you expect because things have moved on in the last several decades.

          • DB 1.4.1.1.1

            It is not a life threatening situation and requires no high tech. Just a bit of common sense and effort saved considerable wreckage of my gardens as well as time and money. This should be a contractors concern, not to unnecessarily trash the place.

            However, ethically, I cannot deny that it needs to be people over property.

            Ironic that.

            I cede that saving backs is commendable practice.

            I still think they’re a pack of shiftless mongrels, this job is to repair damage from 2 years back when the last lot were let in with a digger. No compensation for considerable property loss at the time, and now they tried to dig up a perfectly good driveway as well as the broken path. That’s when I’d had enough. Moved the concrete myself, enough, is enough.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.4.1.1.1.1

              Just a bit of common sense…

              Common Sense is neither common nor sense.

              This should be a contractors concern, not to unnecessarily trash the place.

              To some degree yes.

              I still think they’re a pack of shiftless mongrels, this job is to repair damage from 2 years back when the last lot were let in with a digger.

              And that is a concern. Someone is milking it which needs a proper investigation. But how to get one started and properly done?

      • David Mac 1.4.2

        I suspect many of us have acquaintances that are over 50 and have been building for most of their lives. Of the half dozen I know they all have 1 thing in common: Buggered backs. More than should wrestle with skin cancer issues. There seem to be many peripheral advantages to pre-fab house building.

        Foul weather costs everyone money on a building site. Painters rained off etc. Health and Safety is much easier to manage when we’re keeping an eye on a factory rather than a suburb. Building outside in the depth of winter….yuck…warm factory, Nice! Neighbours don’t need to put up with the noise, mess, somebody else’s musical taste etc for 2-3 months. Can be built around the clock, 3 x 8 hour shifts every day, 7 days a week. Economy of scale, all costs come down when you’re buying building materials by the tonne and kilometre.

        • DB 1.4.2.1

          Lot of good points David.

          I think I am pining for the ‘good old days’. Prefab building makes a lot of sense in the light of production and preservation of people.

          And preservation of people is where my rant falls over.

          There’s a line though – a nanny state if you will. I’ll throw blocks if I wanna!

          • Ad 1.4.2.1.1

            Your points about mechanization are important particularly if they are in a tight space or section as you describe. Sometimes hand-work is safest and most accurate.

            If there were a machine that could do tie-ins for rebar and foundation/slab work we would definitely use them on our sites (construction of rail, motorways, water and wastewater plants, heavy marine etc). But right now there isn’t, even with using as much prefab offsite as we can.

            But if I need jobs done on my section here in Titirangi I tend to specify as little machinery as possible – I would rather confine the impact as much as possible just as you are proposing.

            Nothing like the good old days of work, so long as we also do the basics that decrease injury;
            – make sure everyone is clear about their methodology and tasks
            – set out the steps to take in a ‘toolbox talk’ at the beginning of each day
            – Get them decent lunch so they don’t forget you
            – Make sure everyone is wearing gloves and steel capped boots and strong pants and shirts (you know the drill)
            – But still stay on the phone to the business and make your specifications and your cost control rigidly clear. It’s your show after all.

        • KJT 1.4.2.2

          And. Yet another skilled independent tradesman gets turned into a minimum wage factory worker.

          Yay!

          • Draco T Bastard 1.4.2.2.1

            Yet another skilled independent tradesman gets turned into a minimum wage factory worker.

            Done properly no persons would be involved in the construction.

            Will need highly intelligent, well trained and well paid people to keep the factory going though.

    • mikes 1.5

      I’d say the real reason is the amount of money they can rip taxpayers off by getting in a digger at $150 an hour plus disposal plus this plus that. Money is more desirable than hard physical work.

  2. Jenny 2

    Request Timeout
    Server timeout waiting for the HTTP request from the client.

    Apache/2.4.33 (Ubuntu) Server at thestandard.org.nz Port 443

    This fault preventing me making a comment about the New Zealand campaign against climate change and offshore oil and gas prospecting.

    • Jenny 2.1

      Will try again

      • Jenny 2.1.1

        Nope.

        It seems that comments about Syria as well as deep sea oil protests are being captured by this fault.

        Will try again.

        • Jenny 2.1.1.1

          Nope. No luck this time either.

          Request Timeout
          Server timeout waiting for the HTTP request from the client.

          Apache/2.4.33 (Ubuntu) Server at thestandard.org.nz Port 443

          Maybe I should take the hint and restrict myself to making comments about the Royal wedding.

            • Jenny 2.1.1.1.1.1

              Request Timeout
              Server timeout waiting for the HTTP request from the client.

              Apache/2.4.33 (Ubuntu) Server at thestandard.org.nz Port 443

                • mickysavage

                  Which network do you use for your internet feed Jenny?

                  • Jenny

                    Telecom’s Spark email.

                    No change there.

                    This is the server I have always used.

                  • Carolyn_Nth

                    I’ve had problems logging into and commenting on TS for a few months. Usually on the browser I use most (Firefox), but eventually it hits every browser.

                    Firefox on one or 2 laptops now regularly get bad request notices no matter how many times I clear the cache and history.

                    I logged in for this comment using the Vivaldi browser. But, I have pretty much given up commenting on TS. It’s just too much hassle.

                    And re your question to Jenny, micky. Spark IP.

                    • Anne

                      Since the last break-down about a week ago I lost my details and have to insert them each time I comment. Some comments have also disappeared into spam bin. Mentioned it the other day and a few commenters confirmed they were having the same problem. I use Google Chrome.

                    • Anne

                      I’m also Spark IP.

                    • greywarshark

                      Anne
                      You may already know about this. But for anyone who doesn’t, I too lost my embedded details and was entering each time. Then realised I could get in easier with the dropdown option so just put the first letter, it drops down and I click on appropriate info.

                    • Incognito

                      @ greywarshark 27 May 2018 at 12:24 pm:

                      I suspect this is something to do with your browser settings and I’ll use this comment to test it out.

                      Edit: Nope, it didn’t work 🙁

                    • greywarshark

                      Incognito
                      Unfortunately i have to learn my computer program management
                      on the run. So what do you find through your browser settings
                      check?

                      I struggle with damn technology. I can’t use my cellphone easily apparently because my little finger hasn’t enough area to
                      drive the system etc.

                    • Incognito

                      Hi greywarshark,

                      I found nothing that was helpful and you can believe when I say that I would have shared it here if I had 😉

                      I have to type in my details for each & every comment but I’ve also lost the ability to see who replied to my comments; the Replies option on the RH side is gone and only Comments and Opinions are available!?

                      I’ve tried different browsers with different settings (on a laptop) but so far no luck 🙁

                      It’s like digging a (small) hole manually each time 😉

                    • greywarshark

                      Hi lprent
                      When you have time could you advise what you think is leading to our problems here. Jenny is wanting to talk about the latest political stuff and is getting paranoid that she can’t get through.
                      I have felt the same about things that I have written.

                      GCSB must have a lot of stuff that they want to trial.

                    • NZJester

                      I’m with Vodafone and using the very latest Firefox web browser.
                      I have to enter my details in the name and mail fields again every time I hit reply and no longer get to see that useful tab that would show me when someone has replied to one of my comments.
                      All the problems seemed to start after the website was unavailable for a day or two to me.

                  • Jenny

                    Thank you for your concern at all my travails MS.

                    You are an angel.

                    • alwyn

                      Lucifer?

                    • Nic the NZer

                      Better the devil you know, aye.

                    • mickysavage

                      No problems Jenny I have had it as well. Clearing my browser history helped for a while.

                      It is strange though. I find if I tether to Vodafone or use some wireless networks it plays up but then when I use my work or home wireless networks it is fine.

  3. Jenny 3

    Will try again.

    • cleangreen 3.1

      The broadcasting/communication minister should be fired for this!!!!

      We sufferd some similar inter-ruption also and what is happening over our internet services as in the last two days our service provider was called by us for disruption of services, several times.

      We saw the stupid stuff over Clare Curran screwing up our plans for a new media channel so this is just a coontinuatiioon of these problems faced by us all because of failing communicatiion systems.

      The big question on broacasting/communications right now is this;

      Why did the PM Jacinda Ardern ‘eagerly’ dismiss the Minister of transport from his Air Transport portfolio when she didn’t fire Clare Curran as Minister of Broadcasting when she ‘communicated’ with those she was legally prevented not to communicate with with??????

      Jacinda needs to fix this now because Clare Curran was the most destructive MP for the Labour coalition Government cause to allow them to setup a new public broadcasting channel that the new Government urgently needs most of all right to counter the negative tone of all the media coverage, as media is right now accusing all the issues around what the new government it doing???

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018619322/new-government-new-plans-for-broadcasting

  4. Jenny 4

    Nope no luck.

    Request Timeout
    Server timeout waiting for the HTTP request from the client.

    Apache/2.4.33 (Ubuntu) Server at thestandard.org.nz Port 443

    What I am trying to show you, is that Greenpeace has had to cancel all protests against deep sea oil and gas drilling in New Zealand waters under threat of $200,000 fines.

    This is being done under the Anadarko Amendment, the legislation brought in at the behest of the oil companies by the last National Government.

    • cleangreen 4.1

      Why hasn’t Jacinda “the priness of our world climate change” cancelled the former national Government agreementn with this highly aggessive oil company Anadarko?

      Are they afraid of showing us what faces us all under ISDS under TPP?

    • adam 4.2

      Jenny, I’ve found I can’t cut and paste anything more than http:// addies into the comment box, or I’ll get the whole time out as well. I’ve also noticed that I need to space out any links, with me writing stuff in between. And as a last kicker don’t have any text too close to a hyperlink.

      See if that helps. I know the frustration, you are not alone.

      • Carolyn_nth 4.2.1

        No. It has nothing to do with links.

        Typing this without attempting to login

        [k. For info, that one was sitting in pending. I’ve left a note for Lynn in the back end and referred him to this sub-thread.] – Bill

        • Carolyn_Nth 4.2.1.1

          Thanks, Bill. yes. that’s what I typed on Firefox, without logging in, and got a bad request notice.

      • Carolyn_Nth 4.2.2

        No. It has nothing to do with links. I now seem to be permanetly getting

        Bad Request

        Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.
        Size of a request header field exceeds server limit.
        Apache/2.4.33 (Ubuntu) Server at thestandard.nz Port 443

        I just tried to type a couple of sentences reply to you on Firefox, without logging in, and got the above.

        It used to help clearing the cache and history (for a while), but after a while that didn’t seem to work either.

        I get that response when I try to log in to TS on firefox.

        I have logged in OK today and commenting here via Vivaldi

        But continually trying to find work arounds becomes too tiresome.

        PS: just cleared cache and history, closed firefox then reopened it and got the above message again just trying to access TS.

        • Chris T 4.2.2.1

          That error doesnt sound like a block from TS

          Try chrome or IE

          Or try to make sure you are only pasting the url and not other stuff

    • greywarshark 4.3

      Has this gone on to Facebook set for public – world Jenny? It needs to be known by others.

    • James 4.4

      “What I am trying to show you, is that Greenpeace has had to cancel all protests against deep sea oil and gas drilling in New Zealand waters under threat of $200,000 fines.”

      So all they have to do now is not break the law and they won’t get fined. Easy really.

      • cleangreenc 4.4.1

        No answer eh?

        I will fight for our freedom as our solders did for us as these greedy assholes like Anadarko will kill land rape a country to extract what they want.

        Then leave it spoiled and polluted, – I dont want that for our children as I want to protect the planet for future generations.

        Do you?

      • cleangreen 4.4.2

        No answer eh?

        I will fight for our freedom as our solders did for us as these greedy assholes like Anadarko will kill land rape a country to extract what they want.

        Then leave it spoiled and polluted, – I dont want that for our children as I want to protect the planet for future generations.

        Do you?

  5. Anne 5

    Who was the young woman on today’s Q&A panel? When asked what her “miss of the week was” she said it was Phil Twyford and his behaviour on the aeroplane. “Not a good look” she said. If she thinks that is the most serious ‘miss’ of the week’ then she is uninformed and politically very naive. What was she doing there?

    • Draco T Bastard 5.1

      What she was brought in to do by the sounds of things – misdirect from the major issues of the day.

      • bwaghorn 5.1.1

        I think your wrong twyford was the biggest miss of the week . The nats are doing what opposition parties do (Just they a better at dirty than the others) but twyford was just plain dumb .

    • James 5.2

      So her opinion was wrong according to you. Therefore she is uninformed and niave.

      Gee you sure got a case of “self importance” and holier than tho going on today Anne.

      • Robert Guyton 5.2.1

        So Anne’s opinion is wrong according to you, James …
        I reckon, 3 – 0.

        • James 5.2.1.1

          You need to work on your trolling Robert.

          At least put some effort in.

          • Robert Guyton 5.2.1.1.1

            You joined the TS discussion today, James, just to tell Anne that she’s “got a case of self importance”?
            Good effort.

            • Grey Area 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Spot on Robert. I noticed the usual suspects weren’t here today and conversations were passing back and forth and then James popped up and contributed … nothing. Except his usual negative, sniping trolling of course.

            • James 5.2.1.1.1.2

              Nope popped in here for a quick read – just happened that Anne’s self righteous comment stood out so I commented.

      • Anne 5.2.2

        What the hell are you talking about? What’s “holier than thou” about critiquing a person who came across to me as a bit of a twit – or twat of you prefer. Apart from that, listen to who is talking. You spend your whole time critiquing and running down people on this site!

    • mauī 5.3

      Could be one of those religious righties who believe national are god’s gift. The type who excuse homelessness and decaying infrastructure that kills New Zealanders because national are born again “winners” and are conservative like them. They just block out the continual lies that are preached to them I spose.

  6. greywarshark 6

    Some good stuff from Radionz Wallace Chapman this am.

    life and society author interview
    11:04 am today
    Jeremy Heimans: the power of new power
    From Sunday Morning, 11:04 am today
    Listen duration 32′ :04″
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018646695/jeremy-heimans-the-power-of-new-power
    Jeremy Heimans is the co-author, with Henry Timms, of a book called “New Power” . He says Harvey Weinstein is a typical example of old power and the #metoo movement is an example of new power. Heimans says there’s been a fundamental shift in the balance of power in the world and we have major structural problems that could benefit from the kinds of mass participation and peer coordination that “new power” players know how to generate. He says “the facts just aren’t enough”.

    ****************************

    Civil Defence environment
    10:04 am today
    Ann Brower: critical conscience
    From Sunday Morning, 10:04 am today
    Listen duration 32′ :18″
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018646691/ann-brower-critical-conscience
    On 31 May, Dr Ann Brower will deliver a lecture at the University of Canterbury, titled: A Little Guy’s Guide to Making a Difference after receiving the Critic and Conscience of Society Award earlier this month. Dr Brower is probably best known for her advocacy for more stringent regulation of earthquake-prone buildings, a campaign informed by her experience of being on a bus crushed by falling masonry in Christchurch’s 2011 earthquake. Twelve passengers died on or beside the bus. She’s also been prominent in highlighting high country land being transferred from Crown to private ownership.

  7. adam 7

    Begs the question, why is New Zealand Rugby so backwards in support of our indigenous culture?

    Big ups to the AFL and all the families, artist and players involved in this.

    http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-05-27/art-footy-and-indigenous-culture-collide

    • bwaghorn 7.1

      Hmmmm the Maori all blacks ? A race based team isn’t enough for you

      • mauī 7.1.1

        And how much coverage do they get? We’ll take your haka and your best players thanks very much.

        • bwaghorn 7.1.1.1

          Fucked if I know don’t watch much rugby .
          Hadn’t noticed the rfu forcing Maori to play for them as the word taking implies. As for the haka didn’t the sort something out with Te Raprahas tribe a few years ago . ( wouldn’t bother me if they dropped the haka as once you’ve watched it for 40 odd years it’s lost it’s thrill )

    • mikes 7.2

      So how is “New Zealand Rugby so backwards in support of our indigenous culture? “?

  8. Gabby 8

    What kind of shallow empty gesture did you have in mind addy? Bearing in mind the perils of cultural misappropriation.

  9. One Anonymous Bloke 9

    Rebstock.

    ACC is undertaking a secretive review into the conduct of its chief executive and the organisation’s culture…

    ACC chair Dame Paula Rebstock refused to discuss the investigation beyond a short statement, saying the allegations were “without merit”.

    The allegations also asserted a flagship project to overhaul ACC was delivering only a fraction of the benefits originally claimed.

    I had a quick look at Heidrick & Struggles’ website. The ‘about us’ section is showing “404 not found”, so obviously they didn’t spend our $100k on that.

  10. CHCOff 10

    I saw the National Media Party rorting is so bad, it has put in question New Zealand being kicked out of the 5 eyes for being a communist liability.

    The change the flag, no record on land sales, flogging off the water, record immigration, spies in cabinet ‘elite’ network etc is clearly the culprit here.

    NZ society needs honest lobbying via local custom driving govt. oversight & policy, formal employee firms as part of specialised product chains where necessary, and self-regulating business associations bound by autonomous democratic control in designating levels of conduct.

    Capitalism has a place for lesser practises, but they should be a niche, not state run (or overrun as the case may be) monopolies.

  11. bwaghorn 11

    Any truth to the rumour this government is going to open the doors wide to overseas buyers as long as they plant trees . I was told mp mcelvie addressed a fed farmers meeting and that was one of his talking points.

  12. cleangreenc 12

    No answer eh?

    I will fight for our freedom as our solders did for us as these greedy assholes like Anadarko will kill land rape a country to extract what they want.

    Then leave it spoiled and polluted, – I dont want that for our children as I want to protect the planet for future generations.

    Do you?

  13. Ad 13

    Last Friday it was 40 years since Day 507 when Bastion Point got stormed and the Ngati whatua protesters were arrested and their makeshift whare wrecked.

    ” The stand at Bastion Point is a prevailing benchmark for protest in Aotearoa, which led to the first successful retrospective claim hearing at the Waitangi Tribunal. It is a move that Joe Hawke, leader of the 1977 protest, has never regretted. “I went onto the Point, not to invite an arrest, but to arrest a wrong, and 40 years on, all of Ngāti Whātua are benefiting from that stand”, he said. ”

    http://ngatiwhatuaorakei.com/bastion-point-40-years

    You can still see the ‘Not One More Acre!’ photographic exhibition at the Auckland War Memorial Museum.

    This clip from Te Karere a few years ago gives a sense of what this was like.

    Also here, and there was the army on standby, air force helicopters in the air, and a navy ship close by just to intimidate:

    Ngati Whatua are now one of the largest landowners in downtown Auckland, so good on them.

    If you ever find it, check out the documentary by Merata Mita: Takaparawha Day 507. It’s chilling. Anyone says racism was long gone in the 1950s, take a look at that one and weep.

    I think their action, together with the Motonui Plant coastal decisions, were the things that really started the reconciliation process as we now know it. Helluva day, just watching Philip Sherry front that on the news.

  14. The first poll since the budget, from Newshub/Reid Research:

    – National 45.1% (up 0.6%)
    – Labour 42.6% (up 0.3%)
    – Greens 5.7% (down 0.3%)
    – NZ First 2.4% (down 1.2%)

    ACT, Maori Party and The Opportunities Party were not mentioned.

    Preferred Prime Minister:

    – Jacinda Ardern 40.2%
    – Simon Bridges 9.0%
    – Winston Peters 4.6%
    – Judith Collins 3.7%

    39% said Peters would do ok in the top job.

  15. ScottGN 15

    Boy, how matey are Judith Collins and Tova 0’Brien?

  16. Fireblade 16

    Preferred Prime Minister:
    Jacinda Ardern 40.2%
    Simon Bridges 9.0%

    Go Simon you superstar!

    • Muttonbird 16.1

      I remember the days, just one year ago, when Andrew Little was hounded as a complete loser when on 7%.

      • Pete George 16.1.1

        Remember when Labour was written off two months before the election?
        Remember when Greens were written off one month before the election?

        It’s over two years until the next election.

        • Muttonbird 16.1.1.1

          You’re saying Bridges is toast. Thanks for that but we knew it already.

          What’s more alarming for the Nats is the upcoming rapid turnover of leaders and the blood-letting which is about to commence in the impending series of power vacuums.

          Your only faint hope is Nicola Willis as far as I can see and she’s only been in the game for a few short weeks. Several leader changes before she gets the nod I would think.

          • Pete George 16.1.1.1.1

            I’m not saying Bridges is toast. I simply made the point that it’s very difficult to predict elections based on a single poll two to two and a half years before the election.

            I’m not impressed with Bridges, but it’s early days for him. National support holding up with give him a while to step up, but I haven’t seen that he has what it takes yet.

            I don’t have any hopes, faint or otherwise, about future leaders of any party, nor of future elections.

            I do hope the current Government does a good job generrally. There are some promising signs, and some concerning signs, and a lot yet unknown.

            • Robert Guyton 16.1.1.1.1.1

              “Bridges is struggling be be seen or liked.” – Pete George
              “I’m not saying Bridges is toast. I simply made the point that it’s very difficult to predict elections based on a single poll two to two and a half years before the election.” – Pete George

          • Robert Guyton 16.1.1.1.2

            “Your only faint hope is Nicola Willis” – Muttonbird

            “Judith Collins makes her debut – she has been the most prominent and effective Opposition MP, and liked by some in the National Party.” – Pete George

            • Pete George 16.1.1.1.2.1

              I don’t know what point you’re trying to make Robert.

              Collins hasn’t had any success standing for leader so far and may or may not have any chance in the future. She may have decided to settle in as a support MP, or may still have ambitions. I have no idea, and i don’t know what her chances are.

              It’s far too soon to know how Willis will go. Most MPs never get anywhere near being party leader, and almost all don’t make it to PM.

              There’s as much certainty (none) of knowing whether Marama Davidson will help grow the Green Party, or deter vital support if they are to survive next election.

              • Robert Guyton

                Sooo much uncertainty, Pete! Could be this or it could be that, might be up, might be down, maybe good, maybe bad – the only reasonable thing we can do is stay balanced, give everyone an equal chance, look at both sides, weigh up the arguments for as long as it takes to see they are the same underneath it all.
                Aye.

                • Muttonbird

                  Robert Guyton. I was halfway through a very similar comment on how many times Pete had equivocated;

                  “not impressed, but early days”
                  “has a while to step up, but (hasn’t got) what it takes yet”
                  “I don’t have any hopes”, then “I do hope”
                  “There are promising signs, and concerning signs”
                  “may or may not”
                  “may have decided to settle”, yet “may still have ambitions”
                  “It’s far too soon”
                  “There’s (no) certainty”

                  In fact Pete said the word ‘may’ 4 times in one short, beige paragraph.

                  I was going to post a comment like this but then suddenly became crushed by the weight of tan, and lost interest 🙂

                  PS. You might like this from the wiki page on beige:

                  Beige is notoriously difficult to produce in traditional offset CMYK printing due to the low levels of inks used on each plate; often it will print in purple or green and vary within a print run.

                  Substitute inks with convictions.

    • ScottGN 17.1

      They had to make the facts fit the preferred narrative somehow Muttonbird?

    • mauī 17.2

      They’re not trolling, this is snubbery’s goal in life to invent support for national to make them look like they’re in the driver’s seat at all times.

      As Ed said so aptly the other day, “the media is scum”.

      • Carolyn_Nth 17.2.1

        With NZ First below the threshold, it makes the Greens the king/Queen-maker. This is a shift from the situation where NZF was always shown as a PM-Maker during the last term of government.

        • ScottGN 17.2.1.1

          I think Muttonbird’s point though, was, that barring a massive change of heart the Greens aren’t planning on installing any National Party leader PM anytime soon, especially Collins! So this poll, like all the polls since the election just continues to confirm National’s hapless position and puts Ardern fully in the drivers seat.

          • mauī 17.2.1.1.1

            That’s right it’s dishonest reporting, the Greens aren’t a NZ First or Māori Party ‘kingmaker’ party that could go either way. They’re apparently our version of hard left. So only an idiot media would classify them as a potential coalition partner of the right wing nats.

          • Muttonbird 17.2.1.1.2

            Yes. There is zero chance of the Greens being king-maker because there is zero chance of them forming a government with National no matter how hard National party proxies try to make it so.

            You can see why they are so very very desperate to sow the seeds of this narrative because the Labour/Greens bloc is now quite powerful.

            For New Shub to pretend a National Green government is possible is further evidence the right wing media is attempting to invent this impossibility.

            I wouldn’t necessarily blame the Greens if they didn’t immediately come out and destroy the idea but Marama Davidson must be seething it is even in print.

            The other error is that they gift a seat to poor people hater, David Seymour. Surely at just 0% of the party vote even the many many bigots of Epsom will start to choke on what they are fed.

            • McFlock 17.2.1.1.2.1

              While they won’t go with the nats, the greens might be tempted to make Labour work as a minority government and look at things on an issue-by-issue basis. Threatening a snap election at any time.

              If Labour want security, they need to work to keep the greens onside

            • Carolyn_Nth 17.2.1.1.2.2

              Agreed. However, there was only ever about a 5% chance NZF would go with National in the last few years, IMO.

              It is interesting that the GP is becoming more indispensable to Labour than previously. And NZF seems to be on a slide.

            • Andre 17.2.1.1.2.3

              The people of Epsom will continue to gift a seat to a poor-people hater until they are told not to by someone wearing a blue rosette. Even at 0.2% of the vote, it’s in their interest to deliver an overhang seat that will reliably support the Nats.

  17. ScottGN 18

    And I see that Jo Moir is already up with a piece on Stuff.
    The Collins gang are getting ready to roll…

  18. chris73 20

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104248900/judith-collins-joins-preferred-pm-rankings–labour-greens-still-ahead

    Yes!

    First she’ll take out Twyford, second will be Bridges and last but not least Ardern, Collins coming for the crown!

    • McFlock 20.1

      Rotten swamp kauri or finished table top? When she knifes shouty, the electorate will judge.

      But she’ll need more than a phone call and an overhead locker to knife Twyford.

      • chris73 20.1.1

        Being that Twyford doesn’t seem to want to take advice from anyone not on the opposite side of his mirror it won’t be long before he has to fall on his own sword

    • In Vino 20.2

      With those words, Chris 73, you have formed the perfect basis of a greatly comedic irony.

      • chris73 20.2.1

        Collins is out there. She can’t be bargained with. She can’t be reasoned with. She doesn’t feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And she absolutely will not stop, ever, until she becomes leader.

    • Anker 20.3

      Chris she has hardly taken out Twyford. He’s just lost a relatively minor part of his workload and is probably quite grateful for that.

      On an on-line poll the majority of people didn’t think Twyford should have lost his portfolio. It’s not that big

  19. Morrissey 21

    Something very unusual happened in the Occupied West Bank last week…

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/05/27/im-so-shattered-im-so-shaken-i-might-be-up-all-night-partying/

  20. Morrissey 22

    Statement by UNRWA Commissioner-General Pierre Krähenbühl, the Gaza Strip

    Good morning,

    Thank you for joining us for this press briefing.

    My current visit took place in the aftermath of the weeks of protests and marches here in the Gaza Strip and the appalling impact of the events that followed.

    Yesterday, I visited an UNRWA health centre in Khan Younis, a partner rehabilitation centre in Deir El-Balah and the Al-Shifa hospital. These were shocking and deeply disturbing visits.

    Allow me to describe this is some detail, focusing on three main dimensions.

    First, I truly believe that much of the world completely underestimates the extent of the disaster in human terms that occurred in the Gaza Strip since the marches began on 30 March.

    117 people were killed by Israeli forces – of which 13 were children – and over 13,000 people were injured, of which an estimated 3,500 by live ammunition. Let me put this in context.

    During the 51 days of the military assault in Gaza in 2014, approximately 12,000 people were injured. In other words, as many people or even slightly more were injured during a total of 7 days of protests than were injured during the full duration of the 2014 conflict. That is truly staggering.

    During the visits, I was also struck not only by the number of injured but also by the nature of the injuries. The demonstrators had been systematically shot either in the lower limbs (shattering femurs, knees and ankles), in the abdomen, the back, or the head.

    The pattern of small entry wounds and large exit wounds, indicates ammunition used caused severe damage to internal organs, muscle tissue and bones.

    Both the staff or the MoPH hospitals, NGOs, and UNRWA clinics are struggling to deal with extremely complex wounds and care.

    Second, the direct consequence of the number of injured and nature of wounds has brought the health-care system in Gaza to a breaking point. It is a health system already plagued by the multiple health pressures and severe medical stock limitations under regular circumstances.

    ……….

    https://www.unrwausa.org/unrwa-usa-press-releases/2018/5/22/dehumanizing-an-entire-community-will-bring-no-peace

  21. greywarshark 23

    What is the fair price for an item? So it can be made in NZ using NZ labour?
    The charities selling second hand clothes complain at the rubbish that is put out to them to dispose of, so poorly looked after that they can’t sell them on. If we bought one thing and wore it for three seasons instead of three times, we could afford to pay more.

    This shoe maker has been in business for 25 years. She has to sell up and carries on the remnant of her business with manufacturing done in China in a factory that seems ethically run. On line buying has also made an impact on her business she thinks. She sadly sold one machine that she imported for $1000’s to a tryer in another city for $100.

    We need people in jobs, we need to support our own people, our country, if we want to have one that is. And we may need to save up for items instead of having instant cheap gratification. What do you think?

    business
    25 May 2018
    Fast fashion kills Auckland shoemaker Minnie Cooper
    From Checkpoint, 5:37 pm on 25 May 2018
    Zac Fleming, Checkpoint Producer
    zacflemng zac.fleming@radionz.co.nz

    After nearly 30 years, Auckland women’s shoe label Minnie Cooper has closed for good, citing fast fashion and no GST on online purchases as the final nails in its coffin.
    Checkpoint visited Ms Cooper at Minnie Cooper’s former workshop today. Watch here:
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018646562/fast-fashion-kills-auckland-shoemaker-minnie-cooper

    • pat 23.1

      The usual cries will be heard about offshore exploitation, entrepreneur greed and supporting local production…..until they hear the price, then it all goes out the window.

      Her parting comment in the interview is on the mark…..make do with less (and demand quality and long lived products)

      • CHCOff 23.1.1

        IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO SHARED LOCAL LOOP FRAMEWORK IN THE VALUE (IDENTITY) SYSTEMS OF SIGNIFICANCE. !!!

    • Ad 23.2

      My household has at least 20 pairs of Minnie Coopers. She had a good run.

      But any clothing manufacturer still going in New Zealand is in a spiral as the skills aren’t being replaced. Zulu can’t even find them. Icebreaker’s long gone. Even Nom’d. And of course World can’t even lie straight let alone hem straight.

      It’s ridiculous to try to hold more than the designers and owners in this country, because they are the only jobs that are rewarded properly by the global industry. We’ve long since lost any clustering effect apropos Porter that could have sustained comparative advantage.

      • greywarshark 23.2.1

        I find that so depressing. We can’t lie down and let the world roll over us.
        There are some good things being tried. We have to trial things from the grass roots up I think. We are just going round in ever-decreasing circles. And to join the competition from vast runs from overseas, plus low wages and conditions, we have the image of robots moving forward, slightly smiling and as dangerous as triffids.

        I think we will have to turn NZ made stuff into a club that people join as core buyers saying they will buy one thing a year from certain manufacturers so they can get the loyalty effect and the buyers and manufacturers be alongside with a definite level of demand. Would you have agreed to this as customer of Minnie Cooper?

        • Rosemary McDonald 23.2.1.1

          greywarshark. Never, in a million years, can most of us ever afford over three hundred bucks for a pair of shoes. Nice for you if you can…but most of us, no. If those who have been paying those eye watering sums for slippers are no longer doing so…take it up with them…but you’re probably not going to find many of those sort here on TS.

          It is not about ‘instant cheap gratification’, its about limited incomes and kids to feed and clothe and school fees and power bills, and if there’s any savings they’ll go to the ‘coax the old car through the next warrant’ fund. Poncy boots are so far down the list…

          I was a loyal member of a ‘buy NZ Club’ for foot wear. Commandos. Remember them? Bought one particular model for nearly three decades when it was first marketed as the quintessential roofers’ shoe. Comfortable, stable and truly non slip. Retailing at $39.95, they were at the upper limit of my budget, but I did save because having safe footing is vital when you’re having to move another fully grown human from bed to wheelchair etc two or three times a day.

          Anyway..the buggers have doubled the price, and the quality it just not the same.

          So its down to K-Mart and their $10 canvas throwaways.

          • greywarshark 23.2.1.1.1

            Rosemary
            There may have been cheaper footwear sold by Minnie Cooper. And I am not wealthy and have been quite poor so I’m not ignoring the issues of affordability. But the quite poor (above the level of being homeless, addicted or mentally sick and unemployable) are not the only people in NZ, and never will be. We are going through a slow Depression, and in the last one there were people who were not badly affected. So because something doesn’t apply to you or the people you know, doesn’t mean that the idea has no credibility.

            Why are we so poor and destitute in NZ? Because our whole economy
            has been sliced and diced by overseas cheap stuff and the direction that RW neolibs have taken us with determination, that is to low wages, ‘flexible-to-none’ hours, voluntary unionism and anti unionism by businesses. We have to think of how we are going to improve things for ourselves, and not just be charity cases patronised by self-centred, arrogant, callous people who are in the better-off category. And unfortunately these are the very same people who once were poor. The book Affluenza talks about the lure of continually wanting more, the driven psychology of aiming ‘to be the best you can be’ and and feeling superior and entitled once success is achieved, and finding fault with those who haven’t.

            Nothing will change unless we apply our minds and do things differently from now, and also not try to return to what seems to have been a better time and way. What if the people who want good non-slip shoes find someone, perhaps retired and on superannuation and with time from pressing home or care duties, to run a Facebook page that keeps people in touch who have particular interests and wants. In your case you would say that you need certain shoes at about a certain price, others who know where these can be obtained would advise the group.

            We are going to have to show some mettle or lose all the way in this country. I have tried to help particular groups and found they will hardly help themselves, they can’t make the effort, allow the present to swamp them and want a miracle to happen that will solve the situation. If we think of how few people come to this blog and talk over the problems and then come up with a project to improve things, not just with protest to various government agencies but with direct activity, do-it-yourself stuff,
            the biggest task is to get people to set aside some time and whatever money they can afford and put their hands to the wheel. But that’s physical labour! And sitting on the fence chewing over the problems, or lining up with the outrage in-group is about where most of NZ is at I am afraid.

        • Pat 23.2.1.2

          It is not impossible …indeed it wasnt so long ago that we did …however the culture change required from both (esp) consumers and manufacturers is such that it is highly unlikely…the easy option is exactly that.

  22. greywarshark 24

    How did this Venezuelan couple get so rich so fast – they must have been overcharging for their insurance.?

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/104246642/us-husband-and-wife-do-battle-over-fortune-stashed-away-in-new-zealand

    • fender 24.1

      He’s described as a banking and insurance magnate in this unflattering piece .

      • greywarshark 24.1.1

        Woman asks judge for $15M condo after deadbeat hubby skips town with mistress.

        Great heading on that piece fender.
        Everything has a label so it can be dismissed easily – one in the USA is deadbeat dad. She has been rich, married to a man with lots of money and now it is slipping away and she wants to ensure she stays rich, calling on the legal services and the law to assist her to have her rights for herself and children.

        The label for so many of us in NZ is worthless, lazy, unproductive, unworthy and expressed as single parent, druggie, Maori, unemployable. Oh if only we poor people could claim our entitlement from the wealthy who have managed to screw us and disappear our jobs, our living wages, our affordable houses, our public services both affordable and accessible, our opportunity to have an enjoyable secure life, to hold our heads up and be pleased and proud with ourselves and our achievements.

        The elite in NZ, the robber barons and their groupies, have ‘skipped town’ with our entitlement to share in the rockstar economy enabling us to have our rights for ourselves and children.

  23. Pete 25

    I read “Collins made her first ever appearance as preferred prime minister with 3.7 per cent support, Newshub reported.”

    And here and there I read thaty means she’s the next big thing, she’s going to lead National to victory in the next election.

    What d’ya reckon, she’ll put Cameron Slater in as Human Rights Commissioner?

  24. eco maori 26

    Good morning The Am Show Mark it was national that ran a circus and the way shonky ran the show was shocking his trick was to take putea from the poor and give it to the rich another trick of shonkys was he could tell a lie and everyone believed his lie even thought the truth was stearing them in the face.
    Eco Maori is still assessing Bryce Edwards something keeps changing his view ?????????.
    Duncan the meat from cows with that Bovine virus will be fine we use to eat the cows culled for TB back in the day .
    I could survive 3 days in the wild but I learnt how to harvest the kai from te whenua in the Waiapu Vally my whano don’t realize how important the Waiapu Vally is to Maori tupuna history I have learnt these facts.
    The abortion debate in Ireland is also about Whine rights Mana Whine ka pai.
    You are right M8 hypocrisy runs rife in OUR society you just have a look at ———– and it pokes one in the eyes.
    Ka kite ano

    • eco maori 26.1

      The Am Show Mark Sainsbury gambling on those pokie machines is a big scam the house always wins thats the way it all ways works with gambling if the house lost all the time they would go broke and be gone.
      The poor people you see gambling are trying to win there way into a more prosperous life and odds are very low on one achieving that feat.
      ka kite ano

      • eco maori 26.1.1

        When I read a artificial I scroll down and read the comments made by other people on the given topic The welfare overhaul panel of 11 they look like they have the credentials for the task this is a win for Te Green Party.
        I can see the national trolls easy as trolls paid to stir up peoples emotions they start with a line saying they were or did vote for Labour but have changed there view so easy to read you trolls.
        Its that bad at winz that people have to get a advocate just to get a benefit which should be guaranteed in a wealthy country like NZ NO.
        Whats wrong with everyone having a healthy happy life style trolls tell me why yous don’t think other people have the right to be treated humanly .
        If the story is true if someone is on a sickness benefit for seven years than that person is sick they are probable sick of being put down by employers put down by the system these people are not fortunate like me to have a thick skin and a strong mind as well I have this site and my tipunas genetics to help keep me off a benefit the sandflys are trying there hardest to push me onto one but I won’t give up.
        So national trolls know this Eco Maori is watching you . Ka kite ano link is below.

        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/104255326/government-appoints-11strong-advisory-panel-to-overhaul-welfare-system P.S Whats wrong with the wealty having a bit less to help all these people on the streets I see them everywere in Auckland enough said

  25. eco maori 27

    Rodger I did not have the time to watch Dancing I have been to busy m8 now you have done good you know that saying if the horse bucks you off one just has to get back on m8 . I ;v been thrown off a horse many times I would catch my breath because most times one gets the wind knocked out of them when thrown off a horse and get back on it . Kia Kaha Rodger Ka kite ano

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