Open mike 27/07/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 27th, 2023 - 130 comments
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130 comments on “Open mike 27/07/2023 ”

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  1. Dennis Frank 1
    27 July 2023 at 8:27 am

    Gordon Campbell did an excellent analytical report on Spain's election outcome and the new lie of their political terrain: http://werewolf.co.nz/2023/07/gordon-campbell-on-the-lessons-from-spains-election/

    Two right wing parties were expected to win a relatively victory after a year of setbacks for the ruling centre-left government. The large, traditional party of the centre right (the Peoples’s Party or PP) was led by a supremely confident but gaffe-prone individual who struggled to connect with the electorate. PP’s running mate was Vox, a neo-liberal party of the extreme right, which campaigned against an allegedly “woke” government unduly influenced by feminists and trans rights activists. Vox was also calling for lower taxation & employer-friendly labour laws.

    Meanwhile, the centre-left government of Pedro Sanchez was accused even by its own running mate Sumar of (a) doing too little to address the country’s social problems, and (b) clinging to power for its own sake.

    Sumar’s leader Yolanda Diaz happens to be Spain’s most popular politician, and she attracts support from across the political spectrum. As the Labour Minister in the Sanchez government, Diaz has also been widely praised for raising the minimum wage substantially, and for granting the workers in gig economy firms the full rights of employees, via a model piece of legislation that the European Union is widely expected to adopt next year.

    He goes on to make the point that the media switched from focus on govt problems to focus on opposition credibility which produced a feeling of revulsion in the public enough to collapse the rightist support base relatively.

    Relevance to here is indicative. The media focus will always be on controversy (sensation rules) but quiet days can switch their focus to future prospects, and the public mood often reflects that. Floating voters are always seeking a better option, so their collective shifts are relative to feeling averse to either or both left & right at the time. When left & right compete for centrists, their simulations tend to be transparent to floaters & you get a lack of gravitating towards those poles. Hung parliament in Spain resulting – maybe headed thataway here too…

    • AB 1.1
      27 July 2023 at 11:57 am

      the media switched from focus on govt problems to focus on opposition credibility

      Ain't happening here mate. They're too shallow, lazy poorly-educated and high on their imaginary celebrity.

  2. Sanctuary 2
    27 July 2023 at 9:30 am

    Dan Wootten is a New Zealander, something that makes me deeply, deeply ashamed. This scandal could not be much worse.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2023/07/24/martin-branning-his-first-victim/

    He was paying people using Newscorp cash to covertly film gay and straight men having sex with them so he could use the tapes at a later date to extort and blackmail them.

    This is the logical conclusion of the era of the Murdoch press, and shows how corrupt the UK right wing tabloid media is.

    • Anker 2.1
      27 July 2023 at 10:52 am

      A completely heinous crime and the perpetrator of such acts should be in jail.

      However where is the due process? Has Wooten been charged?

      Do you realize he is crowd funding to sue the bylinetimes?

      I checked the BBC website,no mention of this case there. I would have thought they would run with it if the story could be validated.

      I am not saying he didn't do this. How would I know? But I would have more faith in the story if the police were involved, making statements.

      I hope whoever did it (and it could be Dan) is found guilty and gets a very heavy sentence

    • AB 2.2
      27 July 2023 at 11:38 am

      is a New Zealander, something that makes me deeply, deeply ashamed

      Likewise here – and long before this story came to light.. Ashamed, but not surprised because this country has plenty of little Dan Woottens running around – heading I sense for a gleeful victory in October. He is definitely one of us.

  3. Jester 3
    27 July 2023 at 9:54 am

    Well this just keeps getting worse for Kiri Allan. You should not leave the scene of an accident. She wasn't that drunk as she was under the old 400 limit according to reports.

    Kiri Allan car crash: Police dogs tracked MP, she was located 500 metres from scene – report – NZ Herald

    • alwyn 3.1
      27 July 2023 at 10:09 am

      Why do you think that she can't leave the scene of an accident?

      As far as I can see the only requirement, provided that no-one has been injured, is that you must notify the owner of the vehicle she damaged, or the police, within 60 hours.

      There doesn't seem to be any requirement to stay there.

      https://www.nzta.govt.nz/roadcode/general-road-code/about-driver-responsibility/crashes/#:~:text=If%20you're%20involved%20in%20a%20crash%20while%20driving%2C%20and,24%20hours%20after%20the%20crash.

      • weka 3.1.1
        27 July 2023 at 1:32 pm

        that's my understanding. Only issue I can see is that her car was apparently still in the middle of the road. I think there would be an expectation of making sure that wasn't a hazard to other motorists.

        • bwaghorn 3.1.1.1
          27 July 2023 at 2:01 pm

          I guess if your in the middle of a break down and have just done something that's going to finish your career, your smashed car blocking a road is probably not even in your thoughts

          • weka 3.1.1.1.1
            27 July 2023 at 2:19 pm

            yep. Her judgement seems majorly impaired, and I don't think she is being give good advice (or she is ignoring it). I read her FB post and it's about her and her feelings. This is understandable but it's appropriate for people close to her, not public announcements from an MP in government.

        • alwyn 3.1.1.2
          27 July 2023 at 4:00 pm

          I have just had a look at the photo of the crash and there certainly is a major blockage. I wasn't thinking about that. The only way to get past would be to get your wheels onto the cycle lane as it blocks both vehicle lanes on the road.

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/justice-minister-kiri-allans-arrest-and-resignation-photo-shows-crash-on-evans-bay-parade-wellington/PZLIGJ763VEMRODL44SKEFMQVU/

          From the damage to the ute I doubt that her car could be driven though. I'm not sure what she is actually required to do in that case.

          • Jester 3.1.1.2.1
            28 July 2023 at 12:25 am

            "From the damage to the ute I doubt that her car could be driven though. I'm not sure what she is actually required to do in that case."

            If you had an accident and your vehicle was blocking the road, normally you would call police and wait with the vehicle for it to be towed.

            Unless of course, you were over the limit and should not have been driving, in that case people often abandon their vehicle and make a run for it, and deny they were the driver.

      • Belladonna 3.1.2
        27 July 2023 at 5:38 pm

        The legal requirement appears to be to notify the owner of any damaged vehicles or property "as soon as possible" [from your link, above]

        If no one is hurt, you must give your name, address and plate number as soon as possible but no later than 48 hours after the crash to:

        • the owner or driver of any other vehicle that’s been damaged
        • the owner of any property that’s been damaged.

        As soon as possible, with a parked car, would be door-knocking the adjacent houses, to find who it belonged to. The first door would have found them.

        She seems to be in breach of the road code.

        However, that's only a minor issue – and (all other things being equal) wouldn't have raised a ripple in the papers [e.g. if her car had lost traction in the rain (not speeding), or if she'd been distracted, and hit the parked car (all too common in our local supermarket carpark)]

    • psych nurse 3.2
      27 July 2023 at 10:25 am

      I get the horrible feeling that the opposition and media will not be satisfied until they have hounded her to death. This is more than a lack of empathy its a complete lack of compassion. We are very lucky the only harm was to a couple of cars.

      She has been through treatment for stage three cervical cancer, I surmise there is a medically induced menopause with its severe mood swings, a host of physical complications including cognitive changes. Forty percent of stage three cervical cancers do not survive beyond five years, try living with that threat every day.

      • Tiger Mountain 3.2.1
        27 July 2023 at 10:40 am

        Being moralistic does not suffice in these types of situations. While no medical expert, a friend of mine with lung cancer which spread, bought 5 years of life so far by paying for very effective Keytruda (now on Pharmac list for cancers other than just Melanomas).

        Doctors warned her of “chemo brain” which sounded rather patronising, but they were right, mood swings, doing weird stuff and the constant existential overlay of “my time might be up”.

        Kiritapu has multiple issues to deal with by the sounds of it, so while you do not have to applaud her for not calling a cab–at least don’t put the slipper in.

        • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.2.1.1
          27 July 2023 at 10:47 am

          Or call for her to be crucified and/or otherwise hounded…as some on the Kiri comments section did.

          Disgusting.

          • Anker 3.2.1.1.1
            27 July 2023 at 12:07 pm

            I am going to call this a little hypocritical.

            Many of this site continue to bring up Sam U…….the National Party bloke who

            horrendously beat up another student when he was 16 years.

            The charges against Kiri given she was Justice Minister are quite severe.

            We pay her a salary of over $300000 to do this job. I think it is in the public interest to know what happened.

            And as I have already said, I think most of the commentary has been kind and reasonable.

            • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.2.1.1.1.1
              27 July 2023 at 1:46 pm

              Huh? Hypocritical? What… are you on about? In my comment…I said about some who wanted Kiri to be crucified or similar.

              At NO stage have I talked about Mr..Sam Uffindell. Ever.

              You can apologise..

                • PsyclingLeft.Always …
                  27 July 2023 at 5:56 pm

                  Aha the respectful centrist. Well you think you are quite the trawler aye? I meant in this Kiri should be crucified related commentary.

                  As Anker was alluding.

                  • Belladonna …
                    27 July 2023 at 6:22 pm

                    Nope. Just correcting your conveniently faulty memory. Didn't require trawling – just a simple search.

                    If you meant in this thread, then you should say in this thread.

                    Your beef with Anker, is your beef with Anker – nothing to do with me.

                    • PsyclingLeft.Always …
                      27 July 2023 at 6:33 pm

                      Yep. A trawler. Respectfully Centrist ..of course. Had you sussed quite a time back.

                  • Belladonna …
                    27 July 2023 at 6:36 pm

                    Don't start a flame war.

                    If you have nothing useful to contribute – and have to resort to name calling – stay silent.

                    • PsyclingLeft.Always …
                      27 July 2023 at 6:41 pm

                      What? No flame war from me. And this from the person who has to go back to a comment nearly a year old.

                      Sad…

      • observer 3.2.2
        27 July 2023 at 11:17 am

        There's certainly no more room for doubt about the motivation of those who want to keep this going (like Jester, above).

        If the motivation is the public interest (i.e. "holding to account") then all of the following would be legitimate …

        1) Demanding the Minister go … but it's already happened.

        2) Demanding the ex-Minister quit Parliament … but it's already happened.

        3) Demanding that she be charged, and subject to the same judicial process as the rest of us … but it's already happening.

        4, 5, 6 etc …) Demanding that the PM front up. Demanding a debate in Parliament. Demanding that Kiri Allan make a statement, including an apology. And so on.

        All of which has already happened. Those are the facts, and all in the public domain.

        So what exactly do they want now from Kiri Allan? Pitchforks? To achieve … what?

        • ianmac 3.2.2.1
          27 July 2023 at 4:36 pm

          Morgan Godfery writes an excellent column ruing the relentless spotlight on Kiri. Obsever at 3.2.2 has summed it up so well and I take my hat off for Godfery too.

          OPINION: On July 23, 2023, on a slippery bend on Wellington’s Evans Bay Parade, police undertook an arrest on the Minister of Justice herself.

          That sentence reduces a relentless, three-day news cycle to its essentials.

          From Monday morning to Wednesday afternoon, journalists were fighting to break new angles on the most controversial political story of the year: what were the particulars of Kiri Allan’s mental distress at the moment of the crash? And did the Prime Minister know enough, in hindsight, to make a better decision for her wellbeing and her career?

          On the morning of July 24, as the major media outlets were publishing live blogs, the frenzied coverage made constitutional and news sense. But stepping back from that initial coverage, it’s worth asking whether the punishing drive for new information and new angles made ethical sense…..

          https://www.thepress.co.nz/a/nz-news/350042701/morgan-godfery-defence-kiri-allan-and-maori-women

      • Tricledrown 3.2.3
        27 July 2023 at 11:20 am

        If that had been a National minister Labour would be rolling out similar criticisms

        Labour's chances of regaining power now are Zero.Unless National have a high profile scandal hidden away.highly unlikely remember when Mike Williams shot over to Melbourne in the hope of digging some dirt and it backfired. Labour is going to be an opposition party for sometime.

        • Bearded Git 3.2.3.1
          27 July 2023 at 11:36 am

          "Labour's chances of regaining power now are Zero"

          I don't think you should buy into this Nats/Act framing Tricle. A couple of ministers have made mistakes and another has a mental illness problem.

          Meanwhile 17 other ministers are beavering away doing a lot of good stuff running the country. The economy has come through Covid and the Ukraine war induced contraction and two massive flood events in a reasonably healthy state. Inflation is now almost under control, the housing market has undertaken a much needed price-fall, state houses are being built, the minimum wage is moving towards a livable wage, many people have been taken out of poverty and more money is being spent on public transport and climate change. The health system has been reformed, RMA reforms are almost ready to go and the Affordable Water reforms are moving forward.

          National's game, aided by the MSM, is to portray this a government as being in chaos, when it is anything but.

          This is such a transparent beat-up. For example, Stuff has now hired Tova O'Brien to stick it to Labour.

          • James Simpson 3.2.3.1.1
            27 July 2023 at 11:51 am

            Do you think having a health issue is justification for driving drunk and crashing a car?

            If not then don't you consider Kiri to have made a mistake as well as the two ministers you have referred to?

          • Anker 3.2.3.1.2
            27 July 2023 at 12:16 pm

            Kiri made mistakes before the careless driving etc situation. The speech at Radio NZ. Alledged reports of bullying by two senior public servants, which is unusal. A suggestion of a badly handled conflict of interest over Mein Fong, Posting about her distress about her relationship on FB or twitter two weeks ago, was another sign of not being able to maintain boundaries.

            Jan Tinetti, mislead the house and failed to correct and it went before privledges committee

            Michael Wood conflict of interest and misleading PM about his shares being sold when they weren't.

            Stuart Nash, say no more.

            David Parker resigning from Revenue a clear FU to Chris Hipkins.

            Meka Whiteri. Walked.

            As a Labour/Green old chum of mine message me "the wheels are falling off".

            I would be hard pressed to think of a cabinet that has had so many problems/resignations in such a short space of time…….happy for someone to provide other examples

          • gsays 3.2.3.1.3
            27 July 2023 at 2:11 pm

            I go along with most of what you say BG and I think it is a shame that Hipkins didn't take the opportunity to 'blood' a new minister. Especially with a view that they 'hit the ground running' post Oct 14th.

            His excuses, close to an election etc can play into a narrative that the election is already lost, shallow talent pool etc.

        • SPC 3.2.3.2
          27 July 2023 at 1:56 pm

          That anyone, other than a journalist, sees government determined by the public appearance/reputation of the politicians, rather than the policies and governance is depressing.

          It would mean gotcha journalism and character assassination dominate.

      • Patricia Bremner 3.2.4
        27 July 2023 at 11:55 am

        Thank you psych nurse. I had daymares. Nightmares with my eyes open, full panic sweats and shakes about "what might go wrong" with driving a car, flying, any trigger, until hormone treatment and then "I was back".

        My aunt who had breast cancer could not have the treatment. She lived with bad nerves for years.

        So yes, being on your own during one of those is terrifying, Kiri reached out to Willie, but he wasn't physically close enough to help, and it all just "piled up".

        The mistakes she has made are being blown out of proportion to suit certain views and narratives. These reporters need to take a breath and show some humanity, but unfortunately some are like Seymore, opportunists.

      • Terry 3.2.5
        27 July 2023 at 12:01 pm

        This is more than just “mental health” issues. I think that she has been “found out” and those around her are no longer accepting some of her behaviour, so she’s got nowhere to go.

        Ive seen this happen to bullies before, people start seeing them for what they really are, and stop putting up with their BS. So the bully has nowhere to go so they “collapse” in order to gain control and to not be held accountable for their actions.

        There were allegations of previous unacceptable behaviour directed at public service employees, now it appears that she has been bullying junior MP’s.

        she has been pulled up on her behaviour and is now having a hissy fit to avoid being held accountable.

        • observer 3.2.5.1
          27 July 2023 at 12:09 pm

          Could you please link to this "hissy fit"?

          And, in what way is she not "held accountable"? Do you follow the news, at all?

        • SPC 3.2.5.2
          27 July 2023 at 2:03 pm

          The explanation of the impact of cancer treatment on someone is made and you remain fixated on the Inquisitor mode, about the character of the person … we can only now presume … political agenda and ignore the spam.

          But the unverified claims – back them up.

        • Patricia Bremner 3.2.5.3
          27 July 2023 at 2:30 pm

          Wow!! So Terry, do you know who is complaining? Or do you jump at every rumour to add them to the actual mistakes?

          So she has got nowhere to go. according to you.

          That is not true. Her local people and many of us are rallying to help her to recover. Your senario is all guess work and glaring falsehoods. Kiri has been held accountable… but you seem to have a twisted view of things Terry.

        • Roy Cartland 3.2.5.4
          27 July 2023 at 3:46 pm

          There you go, regular as a clockwork bowel movement.

          Shut up about this if you're serious, and go comment on something useful, like that post today about Labour's reneging…

          Or are youactually just trolling?

      • Anne 3.2.6
        27 July 2023 at 2:06 pm

        I get the horrible feeling that the opposition and media will not be satisfied until they have hounded her to death.

        Yes.

  4. Belladonna 4
    27 July 2023 at 10:46 am

    Te Huia is allowed back into central Auckland.

    The key measures are that Te Huia will be using its Electronic Train Protection (ETP) system in the Auckland area and its locomotive engineers are doing extra training and are getting support “to navigate the complexities of the Auckland metro rail network”.

    This has assured Waka Kotahi that safety risks have been addressed and the prohibition notice can be lifted, director of land transport Neil Cook said.

    ….

    “We are pleased that KiwiRail is taking the urgent action required to prevent further incidents.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/waikato/132622712/te-huia-train-service-allowed-back-into-central-auckland

    • Ad 4.1
      27 July 2023 at 10:59 am

      Kiwirail should have invested in the new safety equipment that NZTA asked for, right back at the business case for Te Huia. They were quite happy to shell out for new station and track in Hamilton.

      But good patch for now.

    • Muttonbird 4.2
      27 July 2023 at 11:59 am

      Can't see why it was an issue. The chances of Te Huia encountering a working train on the Auckland network are next to zero.

  5. weston 5
    27 July 2023 at 10:52 am

    I see Blinken has dropped in for a few hours and no doubt our pm will be fawning all over him personally i'd have sent a junior office clerk an maybe shouted him a cup of instant at the local pie cart similar to how the Chinese treated him recently !

    • Tiger Mountain 5.1
      27 July 2023 at 11:38 am

      Blinking Blinken, there have been a number of US officials and delegations roaming around the Pacific lately…what could they possibly want…

      I recall during the sirKey years when the “Hobbit Act” and Kim Dot Com raid were on the go, non commercial American planes were spotted at Wellington Airport. They always come sniffing around.

  6. Dennis Frank 6
    27 July 2023 at 11:16 am

    Political diagnosis from Luke Malpass:

    The revelations were remarkable for two reasons. The first is that it marks the first chink in what has been an impenetrable unity of the Labour caucus since 2017. And second because it is an account of an MP unhappy about something that well predates Chris Hipkins’ prime ministership. In other words, unfixed problems under the leadership of former prime minister Jacinda Ardern. The fact that at least some caucus members are now feeling aggrieved enough about it to speak to media belies a greater tension that appears to be setting in among the Labour ranks over a number of issues.

    https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/politics/350043016/labour-will-be-desperate-plug-caucus-leaks

    Note the banal framing: Labour will be desperate to plug caucus leaks. One swallow don't make no summer, as an illiterate Englishman might say. Can anyone actually plug caucus leaks?? Experience tells us no: the tendency to leak under sufficient pressure is as likely in National as in Labour. Leaks happen regardless of witch-hunting endeavours if the motive is sufficient. Btw I wouldn't blame Luke for that banal framing – more likely blame his editor – a level up the media hierarchy.

    The most significant dimension revealed by the leak seems to be the victim specifying abuse spanning two years, with implied tolerance by powers that be – yet with no mention of any victim complaint. Smoke without fire again.

    • Cricklewood 6.1
      27 July 2023 at 11:50 am

      Its not overly suprising really, youve got a whole bunch of mp's who have come to the stark realization that theyll be looking for a new job shortly. A fair portion of them will be feeling aggreived for real and imagined reasons. A small portion of them will have a big enough chip on the shoulder to try and do damage on the way out.

    • observer 6.2
      27 July 2023 at 12:07 pm

      When Grant Robertson calls a press conference at Parliament, and calls Chris Hipkins a corrupt, criminal politician, and releases secret recordings of their phone conversations, and then marches off to the Wellington police station with the media in tow, to lay a complaint against his own leader …

      then yes, Labour's internal "leaks" will be just as bad as National's.

      So, a very long way to go. One dripping tap, and one dam bursting flood.

      • Corey 6.2.1
        27 July 2023 at 12:55 pm

        Yeah but Nationals implosion happened in opposition. They kept their shit together right up until Bill English left in 2018.

        Labour has started imploding in government. After just 5 and a half years. It's unreal.

        At first it looked like Jacindas retirement had created a post Helen Clark esque leadership vacuum in the party with Hipkins unable to fill it.

        Increasingly, it looks the other way around:

        Jacindas lack of leadership and discipline over her cabinet created a mountain of problems and a bunch of lazy, fast and loose, entitled ego driven MPs and bad behaviour to go unchecked.

        All these problems were allowed to go unchecked under Ardern and as soon as a leader who tried to actually lead his caucus in a traditional style, the shit hit the fan.

        The internal problems labour faces ATM is because Ardern was hands off. She was another Lange who let her cabinet run circles around her.

        There is no defending Ardern, all of these problems should have been managed by her, years ago.

        Now labour has an arrogant, divided caucus that can't focus on anything but themselves, two months out from an election.

        If they are imploding this badly in government, god help us when they do the usual post government opposition implosion.

        • Patricia Bremner 6.2.1.1
          27 July 2023 at 2:52 pm

          Don't be naff Corey. Cut the hyperbole.

          Nash leaked Woods lied plus two retirements and a defection.

          Now a Minister in strife.

          Face it 6 hard years have caused fall out. As Chris Hipkins is finding, managing in a constant state of crisis is very demanding.

          I don't think we would do any better with Luxon's sorry lot, plus Seymore playing holier than thou with his no human rights no treaty, and probably a failing narrow benefit system falling apart as they tell us "there is no money", except what they find for tax cuts contracts for mates etc.

          Why are you quoting their rubbish??

    • Patricia Bremner 6.3
      27 July 2023 at 12:44 pm

      plugging non existent 'anonymous leaks' even harder. imo.
      A bit like finding a “homeless man in MIQ”.

  7. Sanctuary 7
    27 July 2023 at 11:24 am

    Stuff has noticeable lurched to the right since the soft coup that saw Caitlin Cherry jump before she was pushed. The opinion attacks on Labour from their political staff have become much more aggressive. That sort of thing only happens with an email about an editiorial direction change and warnings about job losses amongst the luke warm if they paper doesn't turn revenue falls around.

    They've brought in Tova O'Brian who it seems is the angel of death who appears when a news organisation moves to the right and then inevitably fails.

    • Dennis Frank 7.1
      27 July 2023 at 12:02 pm

      Yet Tova's first for Stuff this morning seemed to lack pizzazz.

      inevitably fails

      Another Belfast cowboy along with Van Morrison?? Well, cowgirl presumably…

      Boucher moved with her family from Belfast, Northern Ireland, to Christchurch, New Zealand, when she was about three years old… On 25 May 2020, Nine Entertainment agreed to sell Stuff to Boucher for NZ$1… In July 2023, Boucher stepped down as CEO and became executive chair and publisher. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinead_Boucher

      So if Stuff has no stock exchange listing I assume she's sole owner still, more of a media baroness than cowgirl. In regard to chronic failure in capitalist enterprise, could be worth noting that the Post combined the mid-19th century Evening Post with the early 20th century Dominion about 20 years back. Evidence of continuity.

    • I Feel Love 8.1
      27 July 2023 at 11:45 am

      56!, Jeez, that's terrible. She def spoke her mind. Lion & Cobra is an exceptional album. Damn.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9HEn1pqq4g Sister Sinead by Kris Kristofferson

    • Anker 8.2
      27 July 2023 at 12:37 pm

      Sad. Too young

    • gsays 8.3
      27 July 2023 at 2:25 pm

      After tearing up the Pope's photo on Saturday Night Live in 1992, Joe Pesci threatened to "smack" her.

      She responded along the lines of 'if you believe half the stuff said about him, I wouldn't be the first woman he abused'.

      One of my all time favourite records is her album of reggae covers, Throw Down Your Arms.

    • Belladonna 8.4
      27 July 2023 at 4:19 pm

      Someone ridden by many demons – as well as making unforgettable music.

      One never thought she'd make old bones.

      Hopefully her family and those who loved her can find peace with this tragic loss.

  9. Dennis Frank 9
    27 July 2023 at 12:48 pm

    The Israeli triad:

    three power centers — Netanyahu, the far-right, and the ultra-Orthodox — align on the need to kneecap the courts to enact their agendas. It is the courts that could send Netanyahu to jail and that (on occasion) issues rulings constraining the settlement movement and protecting the rights of Arab citizens and more secular Jews.

    The court system, in other words, is the barrier standing between Israel and a more authoritarian future. Without its oversight, “the government could … rig future elections, for example by banning Arab parties from participating — a step previously proposed by coalition members,” the Israeli public intellectual Yuval Noah Harari writes in the Financial Times.

    This is from a rather good in-depth look at their threat to the Supreme Court : https://www.vox.com/2023/7/24/23805532/israel-judicial-overhaul-reasonableness

  10. Adrian Thornton 10
    27 July 2023 at 12:52 pm

    Here is a well balanced piece on the bogged down, and increasingly untenable Ukraine counter offensive…
    Did the US know the Ukraine offensive might fail, and if so, when?
    This also begs the question of whether Washington will recognize when it must start pushing for an armistice.

    "As the Quincy Institute’s Anatol Lieven has observed many times, Ukraine has already achieved a great victory that very few believed possible when the invasion occurred in February 2022. Russia has suffered staggering military losses, its international reputation is in tatters, and its forces have been stopped and pushed back far short of their original objectives."

    "An armistice like the one that halted the fighting in Korea seventy years ago has been held up as a model for how the current war could be brought to an end. The Korean War also offers us a cautionary tale of the perils of overreaching, as the advance towards the Chinese border led to Chinese intervention and the prolonging of the war at great cost to all parties. Trying to recapture all territory held by Russian forces runs the risk of both Russian escalation and Ukrainian exhaustion, and Ukraine might end up with less than what it has today."

    Of course with ultra war hawks and open Russia hawks like Blinkin and newly Biden appointed acting deputy secretary of state Victoria Nuland in the room, this only sane option seems tragically unrealistic…as these people are obviously insane.

    • Res Publica 10.1
      27 July 2023 at 2:33 pm

      Or maybe we could leave the definition of victory up to the Ukrainians rather than some random American think tank?

      I'm pretty sure they're more than capable of defining their own military and foreign policy objectives without our help. And that when they do, it will not involve a half-assed truce that results in large chunks of their county being occupied by the Russians.

      We have to remember that to the Ukrainian people, this isn't just a distant conflict that's going to end when the West gets bored of it: it's a struggle for national survival against a bellicose neighbor who has a grim historical record of straight-out mass murder.

      And, on the subject of apt historical analogies, sitting around and letting autocracies gobble up their other nations in the 1930s while telling them they weren't worth fighting over turned out really well, right?

      I don't understand how the progressive left has grown so soft, so cowardly, and so far up its own arse that it would support a morally bankrupt quasi-dictatorship for fear of soiling its own hands.

      None of our values are worth anything if we aren't willing to fight for them.

      As for the counteroffensive and it's purported failure: ces't la guerre

      • Adrian Thornton 10.1.1
        27 July 2023 at 5:57 pm

        The Ukrainians will never take back any more significant land from the Russian now.

        The progressive Left is mainly pro a negotiated end to this conflict because they are some of the few out side observers that seem to be willing to acknowledge/comprehend the awful and tragic series of events, that were heavily guided and funded by outside actors (we all know who they are) that finally led to this totally avoidable war.

        No matter what you or I think, the fact of the matter is that all Super Powers demand boarder security…the USA, UK, France, China would have all done exactly what Russia is now doing had a hostile military alliance moved on to their boarder…that is just a fact.

        So the question you should really be asking is why the USA/UK via NATO intentionally backed Russia into a corner when they all well knew that any Russian leader would have gone into the Ukraine with that provocation?

        As the Head of the CIA warned of himself….

        "The former US ambassador to Russia, William J. Burns, who is now director of the CIA, warned in a February 2008 embassy cable that Ukraine constituted a security “redline” for Moscow.

        The confidential State Department cable was titled “Nyet Means Nyet: Russia’s NATO Enlargement Redlines” (“nyet” is Russian for “no”).

        Burns cautioned that the issue of NATO membership for Ukraine “could potentially split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene.”

        https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/02/27/us-nato-expansion-ukraine-russia-intervene/

        What would have been the down side of Ukraine being a neutral country?

        • UncookedSelachimorpha 10.1.1.1
          28 July 2023 at 12:52 am

          "What would have been the down side of Ukraine being a neutral country?"

          Not what russia wants. Russia wants to build their empire and subjugating Ukraine is a non-negotiable part of the plan. Nonsense like trying to dictate the foreign policy of your independent neighbour, is merely a means of war and conquest by other means.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 10.2
      28 July 2023 at 12:50 am

      "An armistice like the one that halted the fighting in Korea seventy years ago has been held up as a model for how the current war could be brought to an end."

      Worked out great for the population that remained trapped in North Korea. Mass starvation, utter poverty and absolute suppression and abuse by the state. Plus compulsory worship of a clown dictator. Sounds lovely for them! But the Ukrainians don't seem so keen to sign up for that.

    • Ad 11.1
      27 July 2023 at 12:59 pm

      Helps us align with Australia where first $18,000 is tax free.

      Sensible policy from Maori Party.

    • Tiger Mountain 11.2
      27 July 2023 at 1:26 pm

      Well done Te Pāti Māori!

      Voters with a brain that would not be lonely if gifted another, will get exactly what is potentially on offer here. The key strategic political task in 2023 is surely to exclude Natzos and Act from office, so that there is opportunity to finally kick Rogernomics arse in 2026.

      Turnout is King–and if the previously alienated young new gens climb on board the TPM & Green train there will be an upset Election result on October 14. The MMP negotiations will be interesting indeed.

      • Alan 11.2.1
        27 July 2023 at 1:31 pm

        Last one out please turn the lights off

      • gsays 11.2.2
        27 July 2023 at 2:39 pm

        "The key strategic political task in 2023 is surely to exclude Natzos and Act from office, so that there is opportunity to finally kick Rogernomics arse in 2026."

        Dare to dream…I tautoko what you say but would add a severely diminished Labour too. A once in a lifetime opportunity with a majority MMP government and all we got was incremental tinkering.

        Parker and Robertson are no-one's fools. Hipkins' Captain's Call (to not implement meaningful tax reform), to chase a few rich folk's votes to the detriment of thousands deserves to see Labour lumped in with the Nats and friends.

  12. Alan 12
    27 July 2023 at 1:19 pm

    Here you go, cannot see details on the mechanisms of the wealth tax

    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/07/27/te-pati-maori-time-for-wealthy-to-pull-their-weight-on-tax/

  13. Alan 13
    27 July 2023 at 2:24 pm

    When asked about the TPM tax announcements today, Chippy confirmed there will be no wealth tax is any Government he leads.

    • Res Publica 13.1
      27 July 2023 at 2:37 pm

      Bold of him to assume he has a choice. Unless he's happy being leader of the opposition, of course.

    • gsays 13.2
      27 July 2023 at 2:42 pm

      "Chippy confirmed there will be no wealth tax is any Government he leads."

      I can see a win-win solution to that…

      • Alan 13.2.1
        27 July 2023 at 2:49 pm

        I can see Labour getting 20% if Chippy is rolled.

        • gsays 13.2.1.1
          27 July 2023 at 2:59 pm

          Less about rolling Hipkins but Labour may end up being grateful for 20%, Nats too.

          HMS Neo-Liberalism is listing…

          • Alan 13.2.1.1.1
            27 July 2023 at 3:05 pm

            I admire your optimism

          • Phillip ure 13.2.1.1.2
            27 July 2023 at 6:05 pm

            If the math works post-election…and it means being government or not being government…

            ..hipkins could be rolled during coalition negotiations…

    • Herodotus 13.3
      27 July 2023 at 2:43 pm

      Will that position be cemented into Labours election Manifesto ?

      Or do we wait until THIS leader is overthrown to allow for any changes and how does anyone then know what they are voting for as we see some policies are on the basis of a leaders call/whim ? and who knows who will be leading Labour in the future and what leaders calls they will make in opposition/government !!!

      • Drowsy M. Kram 13.3.1
        27 July 2023 at 3:45 pm

        Or do we wait until THIS leader is overthrown…

        To be fair, the Labour party have had two leaders and no overthrows in the last six years, compared to seven Nat leaders – although a couple of those had very short tenures, possibly indicating "trouble at mill" wink

        I hope the devout Luxon adopts Bill English's (2017) election campaign commitment to cut the number of Kiwi children living in poverty by 50,000 over the next three years, and another 50,000 in the three years following – that would be awesome.

        • Belladonna 13.3.1.1
          27 July 2023 at 5:48 pm

          Counting placeholders like Nikki Kaye (1 day) and Shane Reiti (5 days) – seems a little disingenuous.

          The substantive total: English, Bridges, Muller, Collins, Luxon is pretty much equivalent to the last time Labour were in opposition: Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe, Little, Ardern.

          Or was that "trouble at 't mill" as well?

          • Drowsy M. Kram 13.3.1.1.1
            27 July 2023 at 6:34 pm

            All good B – knew you could be relied on to counter this inveterate lefty's view.

            Yes, Kaye's 1-day stint was a stop-gap response to the trouble with Muller, while Reti's 5-day reign smoothed over the Collins/Bridges stouch/meltdown.

            Kaye’s gone, but can’t rule out Reti having another go in future. He may only have been in parliament less than 9 years, but that's still more than three times the experience of the current leader of the opposition.

            • Belladonna 13.3.1.1.1.1
              27 July 2023 at 6:40 pm

              Well, in that vein, you can't rule out Parker (after all he's only stated that he didn't want the leadership) or Robertson (likewise).

              Opposition parties often go through leadership strife. They're trying to re-invent themselves, after a swinging electorate rebuff.

              Trying to imagine more into it than that is bound to fail.

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                27 July 2023 at 7:00 pm

                Trying to imagine more into it than that is bound to fail.

                Yes, but our imaginations can sometimes be quite furious wink

                I would say that if Labour loses the election, Hipkins will be rolled.
                …
                If he [Hipkins] fails to do this [win the election], then there is no need for compromise, and he's out.
                …
                Will Hipkins remain? Or will he be rolled by the left of the party…
                …
                If so – who's the next leader?

                https://thestandard.org.nz/the-greens-election-campaign-launch-game-on/#comment-1961479

                • Belladonna …
                  27 July 2023 at 7:12 pm

                  Yes. I'm imagining what would happen to a defeated leader of a Government.
                  History is on my side…… More often than not, they are gone as leader within a year (in fact, the only exception that immediately comes to mind is Shipley – I think she lasted another 2-3 years)

                  What is interesting in this case, is whether Hipkins would be rolled, even if successful (success defined as in making a left coalition possible). His stated policies on tax are antithetical to TPM and GP – and there is clear division within his caucus, with a left-wing of the LP closer to the GP, than they are to Hipkins on some issues.

                  Yes, of course it's speculation – as is every other comment on TS about what might happen in October.

                  If you think the speculation is wrong – and Hipkins is safe as houses as leader of the LP – then make your case.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    27 July 2023 at 7:43 pm

                    Imho it's pointless making an alternative case to a respectful centrist's imaginings – as pointless as expecting an explanation for "Clark's fury".

                    Not that one’s needed wink

                    • Belladonna …
                      27 July 2023 at 7:46 pm

                      See the comment below.
                      If you don't like making a case for the respectful centrist – perhaps you'd like to make one for the unabashed leftist.
                      Or is it only fun challenging the centrist?

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    27 July 2023 at 9:25 pm

                    Or is it only fun challenging the centrist?

                    Would that be "the centrist" who described Clark's reaction to Shipley being Aotearoa NZ's first woman PM as "Clark's fury"?

                    Imho, there's value in challenging regressive right comments* on TS. Misinformation and misrepresentation can also be a bit of a worry.

                    Your definition of 'centrist' may be broader than mine – time will tell.

                    • Not your comments, obviously.
                    • Belladonna …
                      27 July 2023 at 10:03 pm

                      So, not challenging the same comments from the Leftist.

                      Makes it clear just how principled you are.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram …
                    27 July 2023 at 10:56 pm

                    Makes it clear just how principled you are.

                    Thanks, I do try to give an honest account of myself, and despise ACT.

                    Imho, "Clark's fury" makes it clear just how centrist you are.

                    This exchange began when you took exception to the way I took exception to Herodotus’ comment @13.3 – makes you think?

                    • Belladonna …
                      28 July 2023 at 9:14 am

                      It always amazes me the way the hard-core left (and the hard-core right, for that matter) – seem to require their political heroes to be on pedestals – and decline to allow them any human reactions or emotions.

                      BTW – thanks for continuing to link to a very minor and rather incidental description of a natural human reaction – by my estimation, you've increased its circulation by 500%. Was that your intention?

                      And, still no reaction or challenge to exactly the same comments about the chances of Hipkins being rolled from the leftie…. Not very principled at all…..

                    • Belladonna …
                      28 July 2023 at 2:38 pm

                      And again, thanks for the continued promotion of my original comment.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram …
                      28 July 2023 at 4:48 pm

                      And again, thanks for the continued promotion of my original comment.

                      You're welcome – always happy to highlight obvious fabrications, such as "Clark's fury", in this age of disinformation/misinformation – however “very minor and rather incidental“.

                      • Disinformation
                        Information that is false and deliberately created to harm a person, social group, organization or country.
                      • Misinformation
                        Information that is false, but not created with the intention of causing harm.
                      • Malinformation
                        Information that is based on real facts, but manipulated to inflict harm on a person, organization or country.

                      https://www.undp.org/eurasia/dis/misinformation

                • Belladonna …
                  27 July 2023 at 7:26 pm

                  When even the lefties are saying it …..

                  https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-27-07-2023/#comment-1961954

              • Drowsy M. Kram …
                28 July 2023 at 2:23 pm

                It always amazes me the way the hard-core left (and the hard-core right, for that matter) – seem to require their political heroes to be on pedestals – and decline to allow them any human reactions or emotions.

                Are you now suggesting I've declined to allow Helen Clark (my "hero"?) "any human reactions or emotions"? That would be a truly bizarre twist.

                You, a self-described centrist, fabricated "Clark's fury". You've provided no objective evidence to support your odd (for a centrist) mischaracterisation.

                Maybe one or both of us is/are mistaken about "fury" and/or "centrist", but (imho), with 'centrist' comments like yours, who needs NAct. Just the impression I get from some of your comments – I could be wrong.

            • UncookedSelachimorpha 13.3.1.1.1.2
              28 July 2023 at 12:57 am

              "..that's still more than three times the experience of the current leader of the opposition"

              No,no,no,no…there was this airline. Here, let me tell you about it [deep breath in] …

      • SPC 13.3.2
        27 July 2023 at 4:21 pm

        Given parties make compromises in forming coalitions, a leaders word has more impact than the manifesto.

        In this case it would seem to mean under Hipkins, Labour could only be a minority government with G and TPM providing little more than confidence and supply to keep NACT out.

        • Belladonna 13.3.2.1
          27 July 2023 at 6:26 pm

          Or Labour roll Hipkins immediately after the election (assuming that a left coalition has a mathematical chance), to allow a closer relationship with GP and TPM. Sounds pretty cynical…..

    • Jack 13.4
      27 July 2023 at 2:46 pm

      Meanwhile from Q2 in Parliament today it seems Labour maybe set to announce the removal of GST on fresh food as part of their last gasp attempt to regain the election initiative.

      Anyone who’s ever been to the UK, ordered a sandwich and been presented with the eat in or take away question knows how fraught that policy is. Of course everyone says take away and the immediately takes a seat instead. 😂

  14. SPC 14
    27 July 2023 at 4:46 pm

    The Ugly Australian brand originator, John Howard demonstrating he was not and is not shit-lite.

    First stating the good fortune of Oz (those aboriginals) to have been settled by the British (white pride our voice is better keep their voice quiet – they should be grateful)

    Mr Howard is one of the most influential conservative figures to throw his weight behind the No campaign, but his own legacy on Indigenous affairs remains controversial.

    His government weakened First Nations land rights, suspended Australia's racial discrimination act, and refused to apologise to the Stolen Generations – tens of thousands of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children who were taken from their families by the government until the mid-1960s.

    His pupil Dutton

    warned that the vote would have an "Orwellian effect" on Australian society, by giving First Nations people greater rights and privileges.

    It is a claim that has been further distorted online – and debunked – with social media users suggesting the vote would divide Australians into "settlers" and "original custodians" resulting in a "two-tier government".

    Howard claimed it would prevent a repeat of his 2007 Intervention

    Mr Howard defended the policy in his interview on Wednesday as "a good old-fashioned dose of proper governance".

    He also claimed that if the Voice succeeds, it could prevent the government from intervening in Indigenous communities when it is deemed necessary.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66309637

  15. mary_a 15
    27 July 2023 at 5:13 pm

    @ Terry (3.2.5) … and your factual evidence for your comment is …?

    • Belladonna 15.1
      27 July 2023 at 5:22 pm

      If you want Terry to see and (possibly) reply. Then you should use the "Reply" feature (bottom right hand corner of the comment box).
      S/he is most unlikely to see this stray comment 12 major comments later.

      • mary_a 15.1.1
        27 July 2023 at 5:45 pm

        Yes I know. But something went wrong when I first posted it. Second time posting it ended up here at 15!

        • Belladonna 15.1.1.1
          27 July 2023 at 6:28 pm

          You can always (well, within 10 minutes) delete a stray comment and have another go.
          I've found that refreshing the site, or exiting my browser and opening it up again seems to re-set the replies to go where they should.

  16. Corey 16
    27 July 2023 at 5:15 pm

    Why not just drop GST on everything from 15% to 10%? It's so much easier and requires far less admin that excluding some items but not others.

    • SPC 16.1
      27 July 2023 at 5:24 pm

      GST revenue is about $25B (2022) – 25% of total tax.

      A reduction of a third, without a lot of new taxes, would have immediate impact on our credit rating.

      The total for food is less than $3B of the GST revenues.

      • Nic the NZer 16.1.1
        27 July 2023 at 7:07 pm

        Is this actually important though? I mean if the credit rating companies are not open to just buying a better rating (as they have shown previously they are open to). But ultimately if your a large financial firm then lending to the govt is the only place you can lend to which also itself issues the repayments. You can spend or invest that instead but then this adds risk (and presumably pays more return) and another large financial firm ends up with the same dilemma. Some central banks have even demonstrated negative interest rates don't inhibit govt borrowing (these result in lending at a nominal loss, and this lending still happens).

        • SPC 16.1.1.1
          27 July 2023 at 8:18 pm

          There are ways to manage debt without cost or with low cost, but whether one could sell that approach when running a high OCR because of inflation – it's a lot of change and the economic mainstream is conformist, except when something different is required to save the system.

          • Nic the NZer 16.1.1.1.1
            28 July 2023 at 12:09 am

            I suspect your under a misapprehension here. If the govt spends without draining the excess reserves created, or creates surplus reserves via QE or similar, then the effective OCR falls to zero (financial institutions don't need to borrow reserves, the OCR is irrelevant). Govt borrowing serves the purpose of allowing the RBNZ to maintain a higher OCR. The follow on impacts on inflation are the sketchy part, with multiple countries implementing such policies without being able to even get inflation up to target bands over the course of a decade.

            • SPC 16.1.1.1.1.1
              28 July 2023 at 1:14 am

              As I said

              There are ways to manage debt without cost or with low cost,

              but only if this is seen as necessary out of GFC, or the pandemic when

              something different is required to save the system.

              But generally this is opposed by the economic mainstream at other times, and more so if there is inflation – and the orthodoxy is to manage this with a higher OCR.

              Inflation cause is a separate topic.

              • Nic the NZer …
                28 July 2023 at 8:41 am

                Inflations cause is very relevant to the question of if using the OCR to target inflation is a sensible policy. The evidence seems to suggest the high OCR policy has extended the inflation (regulated prices such as energy prices are often tied to base returns on investment) and shifted the burden to prices impacting low incomes (such as rents).

    • Blazer 16.2
      27 July 2023 at 8:52 pm

      But,but how would you pay for tax …cuts!

      That's a Key…issue.indecision

      • SPC 16.2.1
        27 July 2023 at 9:12 pm

        Lest we forget back in 2008 National campaigned on tax cuts, but because of the economic decline of the time (Bollards high OCR to stifle house inflation) and the looming GFC on top of it, this was found to be unaffordable.

        So Key decided it could be still be done. if there was an increase in GST to 15% …