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6:01 am, September 27th, 2018 - 207 comments
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Interesting article about increasing elitism in rugby.
“But it’s awkward if we want keep up the pretence that rugby remains a game for all New Zealanders. A reliable source told me that when St Kentigern played King’s College this year, more than 20 of the starting 30 players came from outside Auckland. The source hazarded a guess that few of them, if any, were full fee-paying.
Think about that for a minute.
We have long been accustomed to wealthy schools raiding low-decile Auckland schools for talent, but this points to a much larger talent-scouting footprint. There is also something deeply ironic about a school effectively paying for rugby talent to use the 1st XV as a marketing shop window to attract fee-paying students who are then subsequently locked out of, or face significant obstacles, on the route to their own rugby glory by the next influx of recruits.
NZ Rugby are aware of this ever-increasing plutocracy but are faced with a delicate balancing act. On the one hand they continue to laud the 1st XV production line that keeps churning out professional-grade talent, while on the other turning a blind eye to the glaring inequities of that system.
In plain sight clubs are dead, dying or merging because schools are failing to keep kids in the game. At many of these schools you are either on the pathway to professionalism or a road to nowhere. There is little in between.
It is killing rugby as a recreational pursuit.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12131402
Been that way as far as I can recall Ed, which shows how defecto the practice is. It’s not just rugby also.
It’s what the ‘elites’ do and don’t expect the NZRU to give a toss, they’re masters in elistism and double standards as the grassroots game withers.
It is killing rugby as a recreational pursuit.”
No what is killing rugby for boys 10-13 are clubs that play boys well above the weight restrictions (knowingly) and AR not enforcing weight limits. And the contact say between an under 11 restricted of 35-40 kg child trying to tackle an over weight 45+ kg child. And these boys run and tackle fair but hard.
Also (IMO no fault of anyone or organisation) limited high school opportunities for those “smaller” boys. As many schools have few teams which tend not to cater for the under 15 restricted and 6th grade(under 60kg) though lack of numbers to make up teams, and these boys only opportunity is to play up.
http://www.aucklandrugby.co.nz/asset/downloadasset?id=e0f0c92d-5046-43f1-912d-f492327ce12b
http://collegesport.co/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2017/03/Rugby-Auckland-Boys-Entry-Information-2017.pdf
Also not just the elites many high schools within Auck do it, out of zoners who are talented somehow make the ballots.
I have been to Y6,7 & 8 tournaments where high school staff have attended for scouting proposes. Not always from the schools that would instantly come to mind for many.
I think what is/what will kill Thugby is the slow decline of toxic masculinity.
I bet you have a limp handshake
Have you not observed the success of the Women rugby teams in New Zealand? the increasing crowds and viewer numbers?
What a pathetic comment. Still harbouring a personal resentment against the athletes in high school solky?
I bet you have a limp handshake
Thanks for providing an example. Do you not understand that Rugby is social engineering? Oh that’s right, you don’t call it that when right wing authoritarians manipulate culture and identity.
Rugby is social engineering? if you don’t like it, don’t engage with it or people who do.
It’s ok for people to do and enjoy things you don’t. you shouldn’t need to take it away from them to make your self feel better. Stop projecting
Toxic masculinity has done a lot of harm to a lot of people so yes i will speak out about it and encourage other men to be more than what their social conditioning might otherwise allow for.
Yes it is. People who don’t like rugby have always been looked down on in our culture.
People who don’t like rugby have always been looked down on in our culture.
[citation needed]
(basically that horse shit. I don’t like rugby but looked down upon….yeah, na…)
How have you managed to avoid the sneers when you tell people, who’ve just opened with an enthusiastic reference to the rugby the night before, that you don’t like rugby and didn’t watch it?
This is more of a reflection of rugby’s slow decline over the past 18-20 years more than anything else.
As well as an increase in opportunity for other sports.
When I was at primary school in Southland in the early 70’s, I had the choice of rugby and… rugby. That was it.
One of the stalwarts of the local Gore Wanderers Football Club decided that year to coach a football team at my school. 30 Mins of rugby was the end of my career, fortunately, and it was football from then on, thankfully.
Now kids are spoilt for choice which is a good thing when it comes to sport
So kids who would other wise be unable to afford the private education get plucked from a low decile area thanks to their natural ability.
sounds like the systems working
Are they getting the education?
Are those that do not move on to higher levels of rugby benefitting from that educational opportunity? Or have they served their purpose?
What about concentrating on healthy, happy exercise?
And less concern about competitive sport in schools, (i.e. First XV who need special blazers for their uniform, another barrier to kids who don’t fit in to the top strata chosen for some reason.)
What about schools leaning more to learning that is useful for life, and doing drama so that youngsters become accustomed to stepping into another role, more reading and talking about what the book and the writer did well, writing, civics. The constant battle of maintaining good human relationships is as demanding as any sports game. And less competitive trophy-oriented parents who gather on the sidelines and barrack for their kids in a very antipsocial, anti-community attitude.
Why wouldn’t they be getting an education and why wouldn’t they want to take advantage of such an opportunity to further themselves regardless of them making it in the game or not?
Too simplistic Tuppence.
1. Are kids who are ‘plucked’ from a low decile school, able to access and maintain one of the main advantages of private education – creating and maintaining a social network of contacts and influences that will assist them in the future.? Answer: unlikely, many scholarship students can’t participate in the social activities and extra curricular events that provide those relationships due to lack of funds and inability to reciprocate, that is assuming they will feel comfortable in that environment as well.
2. Should we have a tier system of education (real or perceived?) due to access of funds. The success of Finland’s education system indicates that private education is an impediment to beneficial societal education.
3. There is a psychological impact on the student as well, removing them from their existing support community, and in terms of sports scholarships, putting all their value into sports, even though they are there for the academic qualification. A contradiction for both the student and the institution when you think of it.
Such a reductive view of education, healthy community and individual.
so not having opportunities for advancement is fairer on all. Understood.
Reading comprehension not a result of your education then, Tuppence?
If I am kind, I’ll assume it is a result of me mangling the link, so here it is again: The only way to end the class divide: the case for abolishing private schools – Guardian article on the Finnish education system
Just to add to that, Tuppenny Shrew, it is NOT acceptable to offer a chance of a fair go in the education system to only a few good rugby players.
ALL poor kids need the chance of a good education. All of them.
So don’t serve up bullshit about how the odd rugby star being delivered to a better chance of education is any kind of justice at all, You are preaching injustice unless all poor kids get the same break. Got that?
People know who the White Helmets are.
“ In ending all funding to the White Helmets, the Dutch government did not wish to be confrontational towards the other neo-conservative governments who are funding and exploiting the propaganda from the White Helmets. Their report was therefore diplomatically phrased. Funding for the White Helmets may have “inadvertently” fallen into the hands of armed extremists, while unacceptable contact between the White Helmets and extreme jihadists was “inevitable” in the areas they operated.
Thanks to social media, there is an awareness among the UK’s general population of who the White Helmets really are, that belies the solidarity of the entire political and media class in maintaining the official fiction. Even the arch government supporting Daily Telegraph in reporting the story of White Helmets’ admittance to the UK, has a majority of readers’ comments pointing out the true nature of the White Helmets. “
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/09/importing-jihadi-terror-to-the-uk-cui-bono/
I’m sure it will end well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl20jlVnvYs
Irony fully intended 😉
It seems that Ed is not the only so called Leftist to support a genocidal bombing campaign against Idlib.
“ugly” but “inevitable”
zzzzzzz
Not able to rationally defend his position, or justify his support for genocide and industrial scale torture, mass murder, and Hitlerite type fascism. Ed takes a snooze.
https://www.goalglobal.org/stories/post/what-are-the-caesar-photographs
An early shift at the factory, Ed?
Or, maybe you are one of those who, “don’t realise they are being used as pawns”?
How Syria’s White Helmets became victims of an online propaganda machine
The Russia-backed campaign to link the volunteer rescuers with al-Qaida exposes how conspiracy theories take root: ‘It’s like a factory’
Olivia Solon – The Guardian, December 18, 2017
New Zealand Labour could learn from this.
https://twitter.com/UKLabour/status/1044980165103644677
Ed,
Yes I am all on board with this taking back our country plan as the elite are picking our bones daily and China are a threat to our sovereignty also by buying our infrastructure and placing politicians inside our government to take control one day.
They hold to much power over us ‘no thanks to John Key and Judith Collins’.
Bring back our sovereignty and our country to us.
Can’t Cleangreen. We lost the chance to have sovereignty at our fingertips back in 1984 when we didn’t protest repeatedly at Roger Douglas, Treasury quislings, et al and they went ahead to hollow us out instead of pruning the unsustainable growth from unfinancial methods that were pulling us back.
Now we have to find a way to hold onto what we feel is important culture and limit as much as we can the fellow travellers with boundless capitalism who have moved into places of authority, and who often are not even NZs, and they also aren’t all Chinese please note. We live in a global world with top positions that foreign people who fit the neolib profile can move into and be well-cushioned. Poor immigrants and refugees are not free to choose global destinations.
They get corralled in refugee (concentration) camps where they are concentrated, and have time to concentrate on the lack of decency of behaviour in the world. NZ being in the Chinese purview may be an advantage in the long run, who knows. If they can raise their game, the USA may have to improve their standards so they can continue to crow about how wonderful they are.
Trump is accusing China of potentially meddling in the upcoming mid-term Elections ?
Yes Ngungukai
China was involved in the Florida elections way back in 2000 with a company called “Wang enterprises” and their operatives, Quote: “according to Federal officials at the Homeland Security Department’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency, convicted spy and Chinese national, Hai Lin Nee” accused.
Was also found as a Chinese spy politician as we also have here in our National Party Government politician (Jian Yang) who was found that he spent a decade at elite Chinese military academies.
https://www.ft.com/content/64991ca6-9796-11e7-a652-cde3f882dd7b
With that same name as ‘Wang Enterprises’ who is mired in controversy as a Chinese Government official also; – read this ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis
I guess NZ councils foray into the idea of online voting will be a bonanza then – get the right candidate through as online elections are completely hackable, and viola, next all the council land sold off cheap and make the next generation penniless and homeless after the state and council having sold off all their land to the private sector for a song.
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2018/09/23/exclusive-why-you-must-boycott-auckland-wellington-hamilton-and-tauranga-local-elections-next-year/
Is there any talk of raising Super any time so. Live out of town and petrol cost is killing us.
100% Fflyod we agree.
Grey Power is currently advocating for this with government.
As for petrol costs, using an EV will cut fuel costs by 80%. An $11000 Leaf using 1 kw/h per 7 kms means the money is recouped quickly. 10000 kms at 1000 litres of 91octane petrol costing $2400 as opposed to 1400 kw/h at 30 c or less than $500 per annum. At damn near $2000 per annum difference, it makes sense.
What a great plan was the winter Electricity Grant. My older brother is just hanging on living alone and feeling the cold down south. This winter the Grant allowed him to properly heat his living area. Great.
+100 ianmac
I’m wondering if teachers get all they want from Govt if they should get paid for all the school holidays unless they can prove that they spend them doing school related things on a daily basis.
I am married to a teacher and two of my kids are teachers. Holidays are spent recuperating from the stresses of the job for a short time and then preparing for the next term.
They also work crazy hours.
Government should be giving them a good pay rise.
+ 1
I want teachers to be paid more and to regain the social status they once (imo) had.
And I have just started homeschooling my 11 year old because he and us are not convinced that the school learning environment is the best place to learn for him. He was homeschooled until 7 when he then said he wanted to go to school – we’ll do it for a few years until high school I think but the key thing is we will listen and do what is best for him (and us). Lucky in some ways because I work overnight shifts I’m home during the day so my wife can work during the day. This is how low income people get through btw
Interested in this Marty.
What were the hoops you had to jump through and do you receive any curricular program or help.?
Are there any home school type groups where you live?
Can see that this might benefit children who don’t fit in to the regular school system, and also ease the pressure on already overstretched teachers
You need to get an exemption – helpful support was received and as they said they want to know that we know the curriculum, why it is the way it is and how we’ll support it via learning.
Start right workbooks are one thing we use.
We have other homeschoolers around so resources are shared in some ways. For instance group activities – luckily the old school my boy went to is open to other children attending stuff – taiaha practice for instance – it is only a 2 room school though.
One 9f the real benefits for me is I get to spend quality time with my b9y helping him learn – I love that.
AFAIK, homeschooling does not require a curriculum – especially not knowledge and application of Te Whariki.
If that is now a requirement there has been a fundamental change in the exemption process that I am not aware of, and a bit dismayed about, because many old school homeschool advocates fought against this for many years, for the benefit of homeschool students.
My children are older and at various techs, but there is a great resource in the homeschool community. Particularly with those who use the opportunity to find specific ways to meet the needs of their children, and deliver great learning opportunities.
School at home, is often a primary method that gets abandoned when families realise that it misses the chance for better life-long love of learning. That said, I know I few families that persisted up to university level with programmes.
For those considering home education:
Just had a look at the updated exemption form, and note that the reference to curriculum is generic, and relates to your own learning plan. Which is good, but does make it seem that your exemption is contingent on a planned programme, where there are many very successful unschooled students.
Rob Williamson, who was head of the ERO review office, IIRC, was once a school principal, and provided great insight into the review for home educators. He was very impressed with the progress of unschoolers, and preferred reviewing them to those that went with structured programmes.
Also there is a note about records. Records are not required by the MoE, and if possible don’t tie yourself down to a particular method. As you are teaching your own child, your methods – and consequently your means of measuring progress – will change. Sometimes rapidly. You are not in charge of a classroom of thirty students, and will be able to have a grasp of what level your child is on and what help they need, primarily because you are working with them on a day to day basis.
Yes you don’t have to create a new curriculum.
“they said they want to know that we know the curriculum, why it is the way it is and how we’ll support it via learning.”
Sorry if that was confusing. I was trying to say that they require knowledge of the NZ curriculum etc
Thanks marty.
“I was trying to say that they require knowledge of the NZ curriculum etc”
Except that is not true. And if that is the advice being given and required of new applications, then there has been a fundamental change in the application process. Which I think is one of those supposedly “small” concessions, that cost a lot in the long run.
Thanks Molly
We’ve just got the exemption approved last week. My wife had conversations with the staffer assessing our application and we had to redo bits. So it is 2nd hand info in some respects as I didn’t have the conversations.
The Ministry will ask for further information, but we did have some stalwarts for many years that ensured that the Ministry staffers did not overstep the requirements of the exemption process.
I was involved with some of the regional and national committees for some years, and did notice that the natural change of guard in some respects, have resulted in homeschool advocates who are more compliant and aware of “relationships” with the Ministry, rather than advocating for home educators – particularly those who did not ascribe to their own philosophy of home education.
I believe a lot of this is due to inexperience, and a lack of interest in the history of home ed in NZ.
Congrats on getting your exemption regardless. Those that choose home education as an additional choice, rather than a solution to all the challenges of childhood, seem to have students that can traverse both school and home ed with ease, and do really well.
Why aren’t home schoolers expected to teach to the NZ curriculum.? What are they supposed to be learning? And how do we keep some control on children havisng a positive and open education. I have met a cult member and decided this is someone I don’t want to know or trust.
According to a study I read many years ago, IIRC, any changes to the education system takes about twelve years to be adopted by the institutional system. That transition is very disruptive for students in the transition period, and our education system and access to resources has been changing fairly continually over the last couple of decades.
There are a wide variety of home educators – a trait that is found in schooled parents, although I would say that there are a few that make their way to home education after their children struggle at school and they are unable to access support.
The Te Whariki curriculum is no guarantee of a good education, and many students thrive without reference to it. I can understand your concerns, and there may be some children that have less than adequate education at home, but unfortunately that is also true of some school attendees.
The ERO does conduct reviews on exempted families, and the concern rate is very low. So low that the number of reviews was reduced as budgets were restrained.
The state subsidises many religious schools which promote ideas I find worrisome. Equating home education with cultism is wrong, extremism exists in many forms and many places. Many home educators provide high quality education for their children, and that includes those who had no intention of homeschooling until their child ran into difficulties at school that could not be accommodated with the current resource allocation.
Don’t make the error of lumping them all together because of one meeting with one individual. Families cover the range from religious to secular, high income to beneficiary. Just like everyone else.
Good on you.
I’m sure your boy will thrive away from the stress that formal schooling can be.
No one knows your boy like you do, and you’ll be able to pick up and develop his interests in a way no strapped for time teacher would be able to
All the best
We know a few couples who home schooled their children, and one of our daughters close friends was home schooled. If our experience of these (now) young adults is anything to go by, you have made a good call. Good luck with your son!
Yep – the goal is to teach him how to learn and how to be his own person, strong in his mana.
We have long had teachers in our family. My sister has just retired. I notice that the spokesperson for teachers is emphasising conditions, she would agree that much could be done here.
The closing of special schools and sprinkling the children around regular schools causes difficulties for teachers with many children for instance. More teacher aides, more hours, making sure that the wraparound system works etc. These are more important than high wage rises and teachers would probably accept 3% for three years wage rises if the conditions were looked at.
My feeling is that special schools should be used again, with schools including special needs children in appropriate classes once or twice a week unless the child is too disruptive. For instance a child that makes odd noises all the time may be a reason to exclude from a learning classroom but be involved in some sporting one at the school, and the learning part take place in the special school.
I was a teacher and my answer to the point about holidays was two-fold. The holidays are actually for the kids, as both teachers and students need recuperation time. And preparation time.
Secondly, I’d just say that if you think that teachers get it cushy with all that holiday time then why not become a teacher. Watch people back off from that proposition! People do remember how it was, and they were, at school.
Of course, that has its own downside- the amount of people who feel entitled to pronounce infallibly upon teaching because they went to school. A bit like diners knowing all about food preparation- from composting and growing plants and animals, about plant, animal and human health, about cooking and food presentation- because they eat food.
“Holidays” are also when sports and cultural trips happen. That’s not a holiday, believe me.
For me, now retired, the money was important. It had to be as my health was affected by the stress of teaching and I had to retire before reaching retirement age. But, much more important was doing the job- the education of our young is a vocation, a calling, a mission. Teachers would be much happier if the issues which frustrate good teachers in their teaching were better addressed. At least, that was the thinking during my time ‘at the chalk face’.
Ffloyd
Teachers are paid for school holidays. In effect this means that teachers get something like 10 – 12 weeks paid annual leave; whereas most of the rest of the salaried population receives typically 4 – 5 weeks annual leave. So compared with most, teachers receive a significant paid benefit (annual holidays) that others can only dream of.
Teachers may rightly claim that they frequently work during their holidays. The fact is though that these days all kinds of salaried staff in all kinds of sectors do the same – despite receiving considerably smaller annual holiday entitlements.
Teachers may rightly claim that they frequently work during their holidays. The fact is though that these days all kinds of salaried staff in all kinds of sectors do the same – despite receiving considerably smaller annual holiday entitlements.
That is a problem with our employment practices, not a reason for teachers to forego holidays.
What is your solution? To not pay teachers while schools are closed?
Does this take into account the extra time teachers take during term time, including weekends to provide students with extra benefits outside the 9-3 school day?
We don’t value the benefit of good education enough, and we blame the teachers for failures of education policy while expecting them to pick up the shortfall.
Molly
My point is that when considering the employment terms and conditions of teachers; it is important to understand that they receive 10 -12 weeks paid annual leave; a much more generous benefit than that received by other workers. This equates to up to say 6 – 8 weeks of additional pay.
My other point is that many salaried staff in other sectors work in their holidays, while using their annual holidays to recuperate.
Its fine and its understandable to acknowledge that teachers do the same – however lets not be too sanctimonious abut teachers in this regard. They work no more or no less than many others during their holidays, in general.
BTW I am not suggesting that we not pay teachers when they are not at school. I am suggesting that we recognise the value of this benefit to them when discussing terms and conditions.
Whether or not teachers are paid enough is another matter; and one that is being negotiated.
I joke to teacher friends about “being on holiday again! And just having a 9 to 3 job! And getting paid all those thousands to look after a few little kids! What a job!”
We know that it is really a very hard job. Many young people start out with optimism but crumble under the weight.
There is a very high fall-out. Wonder why?
Yes ianmac, Principals in 6 schools Rotorua are finishing up this year. Burnout, age and general workload have contributed.
Years ago, as a senior teacher with a normal workload of two trainee teachers, a team of 7 teachers, a responsibility for children with special needs and those with special abilities, the library and the resource room, a class of 32 form 2 children in an intermediate, paid a huge $32000 a year, I relate to their work loads!!
A friend of my husband dropped by our home to watch the All Black Test, and joked about the holidays coming up. But after the game, as I’m still toiling making resources for a Social Studies unit, he admits… “maybe the hours are different to the usual perception!!” Just saying.!!!!
I have enjoyed my retirement, and think of all those who had less than the Actuaries expected 12 years!! I’ve had17!!! Still going strong, though awaiting a hip operation.
Why shouldn’t teachers have a decent break. In the old days, less paperwork, no student loans, no work during the holidays for teaches to justify getting paid and viola, we had one of the highest rates of literacy in the world!
I have kids and I’d prefer their teachers to come back refreshed after the holidays and have a real break from the school, even more important now that they can’t seem to retain any teachers any more…
Something the uneducated have missed
Should a teacher take unpaid leave, leave (sick or paid) for a “School” Friday and Monday there are 4 days taken into account, as teachers are “paid” for 365 days/year.
I am sure most other organisations do not deduct 4 days for unpaid absences for missing only 2 days contact/work time.
If holidays are not paid for then perhaps overtime rates should apply for hours worked outside 8:00 – 4:00 and paid for working lunchtime duties?
And the unravelling begins.
This will of course be met with the usual putinbots saying “what about…” – they are funny useful idiots.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-45656004
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/26/salisbury-poisoning-suspect-is-russian-colonel-reports
Snap!
I saw the Bellingcat claims earlier this morning and was going to post a link to their site here – and then run for the hills before the explosion … LOL
So here is the link to their claims which are much more detailed than the BBC or Guardian articles.
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2018/09/26/skripal-suspect-boshirov-identified-gru-colonel-anatoliy-chepiga/
While the narrative is interesting, I am not convinced by some of the photo comparisons – ie I don’t believe the person in the first passport photo is the same person as the person(s) in the 2nd and 3rd ones, but these latter ones could be of the same person.
Thanks ☺ I was just getting the ball rolling.
I’m not convinced 100% yet but there are a lot of people trying to find out and they will – I feel a bit fearful for these two because at some point it will have to be tied off and vlad does that emphatically imo.
When the National Party and fellow travelers wanted a story picked up by mainstream media, but felt that they couldn’t do a direct feed – for reasons of credibility, or to avoid charges of partiality or to avoid the risk of the news or information being seen as tainted because of the source, they’d often enough feed Whaleoil to get the ball rolling.
And then mainstream would pick up on what Whaleoil was writing about and promote it as though it came from a well connected, but independent source.
It was a pretty central plank of what Hager outlined in “Dirty Politics” – a way to get awkward and/or not necessarily true or accurate information into the public domain.
Bellingcat plays that same role on a larger stage and Eliot Higgins is no more an independent investigative journalist than is Cameron Slater.
Good to know your angle thanks.
“Eliot Higgins is no more an independent investigative journalist than is Cameron Slater”
Not even close. When the liars fall back on smears you know they have nothing else.
Sure he gets tip offs – same as Russia has pretty much taken over Assange’s feed – which was certainly not his intention in creating wikileaks. But Higgins did indeed start from a base of independent data journalism, and it was his success in that role that made him useful to those sources.
Bellingcat blew the lid off the Russian lies about MH17, and he has never been forgiven for it by the Russian trolls.
The publishing of truth, not the source of it, is fundamental to journalism. The Putinistas prefer opinion, because opinion can say anything, and the truth does not serve their geopolitical ends.
Waiting for actual evidence makes one a Putin Bot? really.
I realise that you may not be aware of the powers that be ever lying to the public before, or, infact, being wrong, but you know, it could happen..
Its all quite fascinating, and the odds of us ever finding out the real story are about nil…. however my next question would be, how could a ‘highly decorated colonel’ make such a balls up of an easy task, especially if it was ordered from the ‘highest level’ and especially as he was tasked with a job ‘normally’ assigned to someone of lower rank.?
“The source, speaking on condition of anonymity, expressed surprise that at least one of the operatives engaged in the operation in Salisbury had the rank of colonel. Even more surprising was the suspects’ prior award of the highest military recognition.
In our source’s words, an operation of this sort would have typically required a lower-ranked, “field operative” with a military rank of “no higher than captain.” The source further surmised that to send a highly decorated colonel back to a field job would be highly extraordinary, and would imply that “the job was ordered at the highest level.”
Yep I couldn’t believe a highly trained operative could stuff it up either – I tend to go for the keystones cops idea of these operatives as in thick a and clumsy and overconfident or it could be that life isn’t like the movies.
People can self select if they think they are Putinbots, as I said above I’m not 100% convinced yet.
Not sure how much of a stuff up it was. The point was made.
But either way operators have perishable skills. Like pilots or doctors. Just because you’re the dog’s bollocks today, after a year sitting at a desk you won’t be as good as someone more junior who does the work every day.
Saw a thing once which argued that (based on the reports at the time and the duration of his expiry) Lincoln might actually have had a good chance of surviving being shot in the head at Ford’s Theatre. the wound wasn’t immediately fatal and the first surgeon on scene was a battlefield surgeon, and the documentation suggested that he’d started a pretty solid assessment and treatment plan. Then along came the Surgeon General and a rich doctor-politician, neither of whom had touched a wound in decades, and the first thing they did was probe the wound by sticking a rod in to find the bullet. Repeatedly, because everyone needed their own look-see.
The theory was that the prodding either pushed the bullet into somewhere Lincoln needed to live, or jiggly probe rods killed him directly. If the most junior doctor there had been left to do his job, Lincoln might have lived.
I’m a crime and mystery fan and in one of my books the perpetrator of the crime was a contracted individual for someone who had been given the job from someone else who had some strategic goal that required the victim’s death. Something went wrong with the crime, and then sorting it all out was the problem for the brilliant investigator.
It seems similar with the Salisbury story. The giveaway that it was a minor player involved in the dirty work was the throwing away the remaining toxic stuff. Very messy housekeeping that, and would only be done by a rather thick and not efficient assassin.
I find it more than a little weird that it took 6 months to identify that there were two Russians in the area at the time of the poisoning, and hey they must have done it because Russians.
Then in a couple weeks bingo they find out their real names. Is this a keystone cops investigation that is going to drip feed evidence to the public over months and years? What do we find out in another couple of weeks? a witness comes forward saying he spotted a Russian by a door handle? FFS
Leaks, huh.
The Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation began checking on the fact of the leakage of personal data of “Salisbury tourists” Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov. We are talking about the publication of their questionnaires for obtaining foreign passports and data on the crossing of the Russian border.
As a source familiar with the situation told Rosbalt, the search for Russian Ministry of Internal Affairs employees who sold to journalists (or other persons) questionnaires and other documents for Petrova and Boshirova, which contain personal data, is currently being conducted.
“Serious measures will be taken against the persons who provided this information,” the source said.
http://www.rosbalt.ru/moscow/2018/09/25/1734151.html
Joe suffers from Russophobia.
Be kind.
Yes better not to engage.
Hardly surprising – you always seem to have so many doubts on some things but not others – funny that.
I had doubts about the spire spiers in the first interview, they seemed guilty as ..
But they have to be proven to be guilty. Sure they look dodgy, but from what I’ve seen this entire case is dodgy.
It’s a tough one the old gut instinct. On one hand what the hell is it? And on the other, with imperfect senses and information it’s pretty well the only thing we’ve got. That is until the facts are proven to our satisfaction. But that is also subjective so meaningless really. Yep a real tough one – for everyone mostly I spose.
Photos are they convincing?
The photo with the captain of the Mikhail Lermontov and his embassy minders.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UlnlcG_JPhc/TrOJ_tE42-I/AAAAAAAACh4/F6uYRg9YRVY/s1600/aaaa%2Bputin91.jpg
A third woman has now come forward accusing Kavanaugh of sexual misconduct.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/09/julie-swetnick-accuses-brett-kavanaugh-sexual-misconduct-180926154606912.html
Yes Cinny ;
But it seems now that the Democratic party was being assisted by a large Billionaire
(George Soros) him hating Trump and now by him donating $250 Million Dollars to several lobby groups setup now to destroy the Kavenough family, so all is skewed now in pure politics so it seems that truth will be the first casualty of this new US internal war. Soros was convicted as a criminal under Obama’s government a few years ago incidentally. (George Soros) payback perhaps?
George Soros was another insider trader as John Key was so we dont care for his morals either thanks.
https://listverse.com/2016/10/21/10-dark-secrets-of-george-soros/
Crikey that’s an even messier situation then, thanks for the info CG, much appreciated.
Be a bit cynical in believing everything out there re Soros, as there is a lot of fiction mixed with fact in the many articles about him – possibly including in his Wikipedia entry. Nevertheless the latter gives a feel of the situation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Soros
I believe that this Kavanaugh is a conservative being promoted to be in the judicial lifetime panel that is tops in the USA? And that people are desperate to get someone whose judgements are not pre-set in concrete.
Another problem of an inflexible and inadequate USA constitution that needs work to make it fit for the 21st century, but probably shouldn’t get it astoo few have any ideals and standards these days. All the people can do is try these limited guerilla tactics on the build-up of the Right’s control.
be very careful about the credibility of what CG is pushing regards US. Its like CG watches Fox news to get the links and talking points of the day.
eg the Goege Soros ‘conviction’
“PARIS — George Soros, known as one of the world’s savviest investors, should have realized that he risked violating insider trading laws when he pocketed more than $3 million from dealing in shares of the French bank Société Générale two decades ago, Europe’s highest human rights court ruled on Thursday.”
It was 2002 , it was France – yet concern troll CG links it to Obama . go figure… and see how a concern troll works.
https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/soros-loses-challenge-to-insider-trading-conviction/
Dukeofurl
We do need to watch our accuracy of things we put here. If recalling from memory state – I think but not sure. I don’t want to read assertions and then find its fudged rubbish.
Very true. We all mistakes with links or basic premise or not linking when we should to provide veracity.
When it becomes a pattern its a worry.
And no calling out fake news isnt censorship, as its worth remembering this from the site policy over what actions could lead to banning.
‘As guidelines to consider. Publishing facts that are manifestly false is relevant to our decision, but clearly stated opinion is not.
Jacinda – some people just don’t believe the bullshit. You may try to convince people but many have assessed and decided that these ‘deals’ are not in the countries best interest.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107407516/jacinda-ardern-canada-and-chile-leaders-talk-trade-at-un
unfortunately Jacinda and Labour are captured by the hard right MBIE types who funny enough when those oil and gas explorations are abolished, quite a few will be out of a job, so I guess HUGE self centred push for the MBIE types who have few skills in the modern world to keep the old ways of trade, trade, trade, oil, gas, TPPA going… nobody even the biggest supporters in government think NZ got. a good deal from CPTPP and even the best scenario figures show loses of Jobs in NZ from globalism.
Globalism is a system of taking resources from the poor local to the rich international with a cut to the multiple middle men and government/councils and no gloss or spin changes that.
Once the power balance changes, even the middle men and government/council will be cut out so they can join the poor at the poor house in a decades time.
About Madame Boag’s involvement in releasing Derek Handley’s emails: http://politik.co.nz/en/content/politics/1440/
Dirty dirty dirty – what a scum that person is.
And now there is another leak:
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/367381/jacinda-ardern-announces-investigation-into-how-draft-meka-whaitiri-report-was-leaked
What is going on? Who would have access to this “draft” copy?
As an aside, it seems Meka Whaitiri is not aware of her own strength. She looks a physically strong person. When most of us take some-one’s arm firmly (and we’ve all been in that situation) we don’t leave a bruise.
And what about the other leak. The Nats have gone silent. Why aren’t Labour calling for the outcome to be made public? After all, they were accusing Labour of the leak. They have a duty to correct their accusation at the least.
Boag, doesn’t score an A. Withdraw that and just the bog is left.
Prime had a doco on XTC, forgot how good they were.
Nice – good band.
I have started putting up numbers of links to images. I have decided to only leave one that would open and the others have to be clicked. I think that is a good idea rather than taking up large parts of a post with numerous consecutive ones.
The way to limit the opening is to put the ( bracket in front of the link, but leave the end part off.
Hopefully NZ Labour’s people organising the conference can make it as unintentionally entertaining as UK Labour’s one, as reviewed here in The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/26/labour-conference-momentum-deep-state-paranoia
Dirty people trying to bring down the government.
“Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has confirmed an investigation into how a report which details the incident between Meka Whaitiri and a staffer was leaked to media.”
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107409649/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-confirms-investigation-into-meka-whaitiri-leak
Well obviously its someone from inside Labour trying to take down Jacinda
Yeah right lol – bit silly that one chris please try hard er.
I will say this, and its completely serious, I didn’t think politics could get more interesting once Sir John left but I’m pleased to say it has
These leaks are getting too much imo we need some fingers.
Be honest here, arn’t you just the slightest bit more interested in whats happening in parliament because of all the shenanigans happening?
I know I am
No Chris i really just want them to get on and govern for the good of the citizens especially the vulnerable and those disadvantaged in society. I hate the bullshit point scoring from dumbarse politicians.
Then tell the Labour ministers to stop being dumb asses, Nationals only point scoring because Labour MPs are messing up
Sure they are Chris – nothing to do with simon and his band of merry wanksters eh. Nothing to do with the successful government and the long cold dark road ahead for the gnats. Lol you’re getting a bit delusional mate.
National have , finally, worked out that theres never going to be one single issue that takes the government down. It’ll be by the death of a thousand cuts
As long as they don’t attack Jacinda directly (because attacking Jacinda is obviously sexist) but just keep pointing out where the government is failing they’ll get there eventually
However tomorrow is Friday so Mega Fightery is probably hoping some more bad news will drop and it’ll take the heat of her…maybe something new or maybe more to come on Derek
Why are you fucking with her name. Do you realise most can’t even pronounce Māori names or words even half correct in this country. Stop doing it please – it is racist and harmful.
Probably the whole parliament is full of hard right employees and consultants, trying to bring down the government as they work for them.
🙂 Now that is funny
Probably + 100% fact as you would have had to have been a hard right Natzi to get a job under the Key Regime ?
A few things went through my mind at Ms Whaitiri’s problems.
1 The news item I heard this morning said that the staffer was new.
2 Ms Whaitiri’s press secretary had not done her job to make sure her boss was in an official photoshoot, This was important as it was in Ms Whaitiri’s electorate. The image would have gone into official records as well as the news, and you need to be known and recognised and shown to be on the spot doing your job. Her absence would have raised questions, and would have left her invisible in the record of that event.
3 This was a major mistake. It appears that the press secretary was not
effective, and not experienced enough for the job. Who employed her?
The State Services Commission or…?
4 Her arm was grabbed from behind. That raises questions. Was she walking away from questions, or did Ms Whaitiri run to catch her and grab her arm to
confront her about this?
5 Do we know absolutely that the bruise on the arm was caused by the pollie, or did she walk into a door knob, or has a heavy-handed partner?
6 I wonder if Ms Whaitiri played netball. A pakeha woman player I know commented on how physical the Maori girls were when she played a few decades ago.
Its not ok for someone with the power to end a persons employment to manhandle someone
Its not ok to manhandle anyone
https://i2.wp.com/teu.ac.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/pink-shirt-day.png?fit=600%2C424
https://www.bullyingfree.nz/
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTkjWLMmqmQ698Ajx6Pzxk4A82O-SRyCr58NI1G4NA_QwfmiZ9Hjg
http://www.witf.org/arts-culture/assets_c/2013/03/mean-girls-thumb-265×400-5683.jpg
manhandle any one?
Including a waitress in a coffee shop…on multiple occasions….by the then PM
Phew thats ok then, nothing to see here lets all move on
Dunno how major the “mistake” was. But apparently the press secretary was a recent hire because of the staff turnover in the minister’s office. So the minister is still the author of her own misfortune.
I like Ardern’s approach – the stuff about the bruising etc is contested by the former minister, so the decision was made on the uncontested bits of the report.
Bullying is unacceptable, especially in a government office.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/367364/small-airline-competes-against-air-nz-on-whangarei-flights
Good luck with that. And if AirNZ now increase their flights or do anything that puts this in jeopardy they will be noticed! They say they won’t but those who have lived long have learned not to believe everything they here.
On Radionz this morning I heard a virtuous sounding fisheries person say how good it is to close down a fishery for a while so it can build stocks even though it is going to lose them millions. I thought hello, what’s this, very unusual to hear that sort of comment. Then I found it was someone from Sealords. WTF?
Then Russel Norman gives some facts. The quota system which worked as a first step to stabilise fishing, is now out of date and being rorted, the Min of Fish has been hooked and we have been rooked. Areas with small fish should have been avoided to ensure the continuing yield was maintained, under reporting, falsified weights declared. Usual.
Thank god someone cares enough about NZ and its resources to keep an eye on them for us all. We have opened up our doors to privateers and economic home invasion who have a condition that makes them sort of magnetic, attracting money to their bodies. More, more is the message from the brain paralleling the continuing hunger of Prader-Willi syndrome.
Fishy link
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018664320/west-coast-hoki-fishery-collapsed-russel-norman
This blog site is a good reference for 3rd level airlines in NZ and occasionally AirNZ gets a brick bat for the tactics is uses to shut out the competition. Yes AirNZ has been doing it for yrs, everyone in the industry knows its, along with people like me who follow 3rd level airlines and who fly’s occasionally on them.
http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/
Exkiwi
Thanks have got them on my radar now.
Jacinda can consider herself quite lucky over the timing of the leaking
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107409649/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-confirms-investigation-into-meka-whaitiri-leak
‘After the report was leaked, there was friction between the Prime Minister’s office and New Zealand media with her in New York when it was suggested there would only be one question each allowed at her daily press briefing because of interest from international media.
Initially it was suggested there might be time after the press conference for a ‘truncated” standup with New Zealand media depending on time.
But only one representative of international media turned up in the end and the limit on the number of questions from New Zealand media was removed.’
I mean not only is that pretty embarrassing, like having a party and no one turning up, but shes also managing to annoy her cheerleaders (sorry the NZ MSM)
You sound surprised that media standups are ‘managed’ ?
Sounds like they were being practical about the circumstances ( international media in NY would have not get later standups like the locals would )
In the end the questions filled the time available
True but it wasn’t the international media that got Jacinda elected and has allowed her to interview for a UN position, it was the NZ media so they should feel a bit aggrieved that having got her to this position shes now basically taking them for granted
We all know the media have quite the puffed up belief in their own self importance so they won’t like this sort of behaviour
Maybe
Oh drop the harrassment and sarcasm Chris73 do something positive.
Leave Jacinda alone what did she ever do to you – or are you annoyed that she hasn’t done something for you that you wanted. You have to stand in line as there is so much to do after Natiional’s leaky government period.
“Leave Jacinda alone what did she ever do to you”
I withdraw and apologize, I didn’t realise that what I was saying was having a personal effect on Jacinda and I hope she can get over the terrible things that’ve been said about her on here and that she can move forward and get on with her life
I’m picking your belittling of her as a silly girl who got accidentally elected and doesn’t really know anything useful, will backfire on you.
Because you dislike her politics, you are absurdly under-rating her.
Many on the left did the same to Key. Personally, though I despised Key, despised everything he stood for and despised pretty much everyone who supported him, I never under-rated his effectiveness.
I don’t mind if you continue to get it ridiculously wrong and can’t see her appeal to people who aren’t hard-right ideologues like you. That fact is that although she is only very mildly left of centre, she has a freshness and a genuineness that has wide appeal, especially to women, who are absolutely sick of being led by the same old, same old conservative men. Myself, I would prefer Corbyn, but she is doing absolutely fine.
Keep getting it wrong buddy – you will be left in the dust.
+ 1 nice comment
I underate her because she did nothing in the nine years of opposition except flounce around as the Labour spokesperson for left-wing women aren’t all angry man-hating militant lesbians.
As helpful as that may have been for the Labour party, I personally don’t think that is the necessary skill set required to be a decent PM.
Your views are typically myopic. That is, you only see what you want to see, which isn’t all that much, and you believe that’s all there is to it.
Did you mean unde-rate or under-ate? That sentence was like a train wreck. Your language skills are severely lacking too, which is not all that uncommon for people with myopic views.
Just shows you’ve got no idea.
Good governance doesn’t consist in relentlessly critiquing everything a government does wrong, even when, like the Key kleptocracy, it never did or had any intention of doing anything right.
Voters’ political bandwidth is not infinite; you must find issues that resonate or you’re wasting your time.
There’s a bit of a nasty/nice conflict going on, and soft power is difficult to defeat with bile and belligerence.
The Tahr cull is a better play – the general public won’t fall in love with that anytime soon – the Gnats should play it up, even though the politically aware know they’d poison or mutilate them all at the drop of a hat if there were a $2 coin to be had from it.
It appears to be a case of Ardern and her cheerleaders believing their own publicity.
The old “I’m really, really important and the whole World wants to talk to me” syndrome.
Well bad luck.
The remainder of the press were at a local Starbucks where the Fisheries Minister from the Marshall Islands was going to have a latte.
There is a rumour that the sole representative of the World press who turned up was a young student doing an internship at the Smallville Examiner, a twice-weekly paper in a little town in Kansas. He gave his name as a Mr Kent. His only question was to enquire where the Starbucks was as he was new in town and lost.
Theres nothing wrong in looking for international press, anything that helps NZ exporters is all good but she needs to remember who got her to where she is because they can just as easily get their noses out of joint and start to cause mischief
Of course it makes sense.
If you expect anyone serious to turn up it helps that you have something to say.
Our PM is simply not prepared for that. She may go down very well with the Woman’s Day type publications but not with serious International publications.
She should have spent her nine years in Opposition working at her skills, not in preparing to take selfies with pre-schoolers.
“she needs to remember who got her to where she is”
When its a man he gets acclaim for hobnobbing with international leaders……
save us your sneering misogyny with that ‘she needs to remember’
Going to NY and the UN is all about international presence which has to start somewhere for a new leader.
Indeed. A man is ‘self-made’, but a woman ‘needs to remember who got her there’.
On a positive note. I’m very pleased for Rosemary that the bad disability law is to be overturned. Good on David Clarke calling it shameful. I hope the “consultation” that follows is genuine.
What on earth have they been doing until now? https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/367394/govt-to-look-at-changes-to-disabled-care-pay-policy
More ‘consultation’? Just get on with it.
Yes.
Assessment. Allocation of hours. Choose IF and pay who you choose. Go through a Contracted Provider who can employ a family member.
Done.
And, this is what was happening anyway, before the shitty legislation and in some cases up untill March 2016.
In fact, nah, I need some of the lies admitted to as well.
Funny, but just this morning (early, about 5am) Peter and I were discussing the timing of the announcement of the intention to repeal the Part 4 amendment. Both of us agreed that it was likely to be a “We really, really need a good news story to offset negative shit…” media release.
Considering the complete lack of detail and a ‘consultation’ (sigh, yet another one) period into next year, it would appear the announcement is a little premature.
So easy to implement…just do what the (at least 274) folk who did have family as their paid carers in breach of the pre 2013 policy did.
Stalling.
Chief human rights commissioner David Rutherford adds:
And those same advisors are presumably in charge of this latest round of ‘consultaiton’.
Gold,Sacha. Thanks.
On my phone in very isolated part of the rohe.
Somewhat dependent on others feeding the relevant details.
Journalistic hero in this case, Kirsty Johnston chimes in.
Oh Patricia! Rosemary is a grumpy and suspicious old bag (bugger PC) and will not be happy until she a) sees all documents, discussion and cabinet papers and the like, b) same will have no nasty little blanked out bits like the RIS that came with the 2013 legislation,c) actually get to speak with the independent whatsit their appointing…or more importantly Peter gets to speak with same.
Too cynical to even begin celebrations.
Yes I can understand that. It was good to see it called shameful, because it bloody was and is!!
I see the National Party are advising Derek Handley via former party president, Michelle Boag.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107415207/derek-handley-allegedly-advised-by-former-national-party-president
National are neck deep in Dirty Politics. When will they ever learn?
Considering how Labour treated him I’m not surprised hes going to National for advice
It’s a good wicket. Apply for a job, get National to sabotage it, then collect the compensation.
Boag, ever the trougher will have collected a tidy chunk of that taxpayer payout too.
I wonder if Handley and National have colluding on this from the start…
Man I never knew just how low the National dirty tricks brigade could go.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107416614/derek-handley-met-with-labour-party-president-and-spoke-with-pms-chief-of-staff-about-job
‘Derek Handley met with Labour Party president Nigel Haworth to offer his services to Labour ahead of being offered the role of chief technology officer.
That meeting, which happened before Labour came to power, resulted in a phone call from the Prime Minister’s acting chief of staff Gordon Jon Thompson, where Handley again pitched his help.’
Its impressive to think National were planning this even before Labour came to power
I wonder what else National will have orchestrated…
The Plot Thickens ?
I’m yet to understand what is so sinister about the creation of a CTO role (a good thing), someone in this industry offering their services, and what looks like a rigorous process involving a lot of people around the appointment.
Could you explain what is so sinister?
Its not but Labour pushed Ian Fletcher so you know payback and all that
Lol. So that’s what all this is about?
Politicians have long memories, look at Winston and besides what would Labour do if the show was on the other foot, ignore it?
Concern trolls have long memories too.
What would a CTO do that wasn’t being done already, besides clipping the ticket?
Get the IRD systems into the 21st century for a start.
Hmm, if I was Handley I wouldn’t be very happy with that comment.
I’d probably contact the site owner and ask him to remove it.
Wait. Does ‘BM’ stand for Boag, Michelle?
It’s just an opinion – no need to get your gruts torn over it. Or are you afraid I know something…
It certainly doesn’t look good having a National Party aligned operative in Boag working for Handley. Now that does look sinister!
Lol he doesnt like you i think.
I’ll take that as a compliment. BM is authoritarian, has obvious anger issues, and is quick to resort to abuse.
I find it the height of irony that BM comments on the actions of Meka Whaitiri when, if his behaviour on this site is anything to go by, he himself no doubt treats those around him in a similar fashion.
Is Handy a bit of a Streisand BMmer?
Handley is donating the Govt payout to charity.
Derek Handley and Jacinda Ardern were friendly before Ardern becoming Labour leader and then PM.
Clare Curran was the saboteur.
No. The appointment was to go ahead until the opposition, bitter that they hadn’t managed to unseat Curran earlier, vindictively smashed the room up costing the taxpayer $100K.
Michelle will be loving this, plotting how to bring down Jacindarella.
Yes Ngungukai, she certainly could audition to be the witch. A nasty woman our M Boag.
More pastoral care needed and input from Uni. and government. Much of the counselling available to students with difficulties is paid for from their own fees, and it is prioritised and appears that only urgent cases are seen immediately. In other cases, to get an appointment that is right for the student, they may have to wait – not more than six weeks!
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/367350/victoria-university-suicidal-student-wasn-t-evicted-but-told-to-leave
But vice-chancellor Grant Guilford said the use of the word “evicted” was inaccurate.
“The student in question was not evicted. None of our students would be evicted from a hall,” he said.
“When we have a suicide attempt in a halls of residence then usually the student is returned directly to their family or they come back to the halls. If they come back to the halls then we sit down and work through an individual care plan, and part of that care plan is usually a strong recommendation that their health is best protected by going back into a supportive family environment.
“So that conversation occurs and then there’s an arrangement made for the individual’s family to pick them up.”
He said occasionally the university had to “insist” that a student leave when they did not want to.
“We’ve had a small number of occasions over the years where we’ve had to insist that a student goes for their own protection and for the protection of the others,” he said.
“We are firm about this. Just popping someone back into a hostel room because they say they’re going to be okay isn’t good practice and isn’t good care.
*************************
And more unfeeling attitudes to we humans being crushed by the focus on economy instead of society. Machines are an aid, they should not be used as sorting us into types they have defined, which then get input that they have defined etc. There are more interesting stories coming out of ACC about predictive mod. I think.
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018664330/predictive-modelling-digital-vs-human-decision-making
Predictive modelling: Digital vs human decision-making
How does MSD use predictive data to target at-risk citizens?
Statistics NZ is running a Data Summit conference in Wellington today and tomorrow, and one of the agencies funding it is our biggest government social agency, the Ministry for Social Development.
It comes ahead of the release of a stock-take of government agencies using algorithms.
MSD’s Deputy Chief Executive for Insights and Investment Nic Blakely tells Kathryn Ryan where the ministry is at with helping our most vulnerable through predictive modelling.
Notes: 1 MSD is Ministry of ‘Social’ Development.
2 Work and Income https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/ – This comes under the Min. of Social Development – in case you aren’t up with the present status of government interest in helping us.
(It doesn’t state NZ next to their name but it does say govt.nz in the heading so it is about us. They also have a pretty picture of a polished red heart which looks like stone and not one they have surgically removed from some donor.)
And the whole basis for their work is to get NZs off the benefit and into work, so reducing annual figures. It is a pity that they don’t have an accompanying department for making jobs that will enable people to live and work in comfort.
Christine Blasey Ford’s prepared remarks to tomorrows judiciary hearing are powerful, and upsetting.
I believe her.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/4945864/Ford-Testimony-2018-09-26.pdf
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/business/367340/stuff-nzme-merger-would-lead-to-substantial-reduction-of-journalists-court-says
https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018664325/redundancies-not-ruled-out-as-stuff-nzme-merger-rejected
Sinead Boucher knows how to talk the talk about the high quality of news reporting the media is aiming for, and may be prevented from bringing us because of the merger being denied. Of course if Fairfax hadn’t sold off Trade Me they would have got the return on adverts that the paper had lost which would have provided the money that they needed.
Given people’s response to the thread involving Ardern invoking the memory of Mandela I thought it would be more appropriate to raise this in open mike rather than on that thread. There is a view that South Africa is currently trapped in some sort of Apartheid menatlity where the Whites benefit from the system whereas the Blacks do not. I think this is nonsense. If there are issues around people in south Africa not being able to advance they have the power to alter that in their hands. The fact is that the country has gone backwards not forwards over the past 10 years mainly because of the mindset of the people in power. It has little to do with the legacy of Apartheid.
Someone said you don’t live in NZ – is that correct?
Gosman
As someone said ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’. So South Africa has to work its way through lots of problem that accumulate confusingly, some from the past, the present morass, and what about the future people sometimes ask.
I don’t think they should be damned for being just another version of confused humans caught up in management and ethical problems. Somewhere along the way we will no doubt all get caught up in some sort of Perfect Storm that will eliminate some apparent possibilities, and then TINA. But as you say SA have opportunities still and need to concentrate on discussion and some definite goals. As we must.
Terry Pratchett in Raising Steam has the Low King of the dwarves talk about the problems of the quarrelsome, individualistic dwarves (possibly an analogy of ourselves):
‘I am here to tell you, my friends and, indeed, my smiling enemies, that if we do not band together against the forces that wish to keep us in darkness dwarfkind will be diminished. We need to work together, talk to one another, deal properly with one another and not spend all our time in one enormous grump that the world isn’t entirely ours any more and, at the finish, ruin it for everyone. After all, who would deal with such as us in a world of new choices? In truth, we should act as sapient creatures should! If we don’t move with the future, the future will twist and roll right over us.’
One aged dwarf responds on the subject of vandalistic destruction of their telegraph system, the clack towers – in short:
‘What are we but creatures of communication and communication accurately communicated is a benison to be cherished by all species everywhere.. discourse and compromise are cornerstones in the proper world of politics…’
It’s a story but Terry Pratchett was a bright spark with a good knowledge about everything, and worked with similar others, and his books are full of references to our present problems that show up in the Discworld of his imagination.
I thought you’d know the answer to that Marty.
Nah – I always thought you did so I was surprised when someone said it. Think of the question from a Māori perspective of creating context – it even is important with our personas I find 😊. Anyway i thought I’d ask – any response is understandable.
Plutocracy tries to take on democracy…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/107412125/rich-lister-sues-energy-minister-and-coalition-over-oil-and-gas-moves
Bring it on, fat cat.
So no bias or any hint of wrongdoing by Curran or the PM over the CTO role.
None.
No smoking gun. Nothing.
Just the National Party screwing things up for Handley, Curran, the PM, and the New Zealand public.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107422821/no-bias-in-handley-recruitment-report-concludes
They’d better move on to screwing things up for Maori (which is what they are best at), and the high country environment (they’re good at screwing that up too).
Of course you accept this. You are probably like Michael Cullen who welcomed such an enquiry about Taito Phillip Field.
Remember him? The only MP we have ever had who was jailed for corruption in office.
The then Government set up an enquiry that exonerated him.
Run by an eminent QC who turned in the report the Government needed.
At the time Michael Cullen, now the favourite of a useless Government said.
” It is typical of National Party members that, when faced with an independent inquiry, they immediately reject the conclusions if they do not like them. Those members come straight out of Alice in Wonderland—sentence first, then hear the evidence afterwards. That is their approach to justice.”
and then
“After all, the fundamental fault Mr Field committed was to work too hard on behalf of the many, many hundreds of people who come to his electorate office on immigration matters”.
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/48HansD_20060718_00000802/urgent-debates-taito-phillip-field-report-of-dr-noel
Well any Government can set up an enquiry that well say anything they want. It doesn’t mean it is necessarily accurate of course.
This Coalition of Losers appear to have done precisely that here.
You are struggling aren’t you?
This one is done. Dirty Politics just didn’t work this time.
Move on to Meka Whaitiri, or Wally Haumaha. Looks like the Nats are neck deep in those issues too so maybe you’ll have better luck?
Donna Awatere wasnt corrupt while in office ?
Then there was nationals MP and Minister Richard Worth who was offering official appointments to ( a) woman in return for sex ( before he was rolled for other sexual escapades)
I didn’t really follow that case.
You did notice that they kicked her out of the House I presume?
And Richard Worth was very quickly gone from Parliament as well. As were a couple of other National members who did not maintain the high standards Key required.
But Curran remains. So does the one who assaulted a staff member.
So far, anyway.
Didn’t Labour learn anything from Taito Phillip Field? They still seem only too happy to stand up for people who should be told to quit. Read the rubbish the Cullen came out with and tell me you honestly approve. Doesn’t it embarrass you?
The party leadership seemed happy to leave Darren Hughes there after his misbehaviour as well. Goff covered his eyes and tried to pretend that nothing had happened. His deputy said she was sound asleep at the time.
Remind you of the MP who was at the Young Labour do? Sound asleep. Never heard a thing.
Why don’t they clean out the ratbags in their ranks? It wouldn’t be seen as weakness. It would be seen as insisting on the highest standards from people who claim the right to tell everyone else in New Zealand how they are to behave.
Why is it so hard for them to do that?
Are you seriously equating what Richard Worth did with Clare Curran’s appointment efforts?
That is a level of derangement I’ve not seen in some time. Breathtaking.
I suggest you take it up with the person who contributes under the pseudonym of Dukeofurl.
He seems to wish to equate them. I was merely commenting on his opinion on the matter.
Are you seriously saying that Dukeofurl is deranged? Well I suppose it takes one to know one so perhaps you are correct.
It’s going to be mighty entertaining to watch you try to describe how Curran is corrupt.
I think that Curran is a liar and a fool.
How she ever got into the Cabinet is a total mystery.
I don’t believe I have ever actually described her as corrupt though.
People senior to her in this Government qualify though.
Biggest pile of bull shit ever, no one’s fooled except for a few dimwitted left wingers, such as yourself.
The whole thing stinks like a dirty arse.
https://twitter.com/dpfdpf/status/1045131037137764352
Going to Farrar for your opinions again, Michelle?
Saw Ardern on Colbert
Actually pretty impressed after the other 2 fluff ones.
Did Colbert know her name, and how to pronounce it?
He was talking to Jemaine Clement and Bret McKenzie last night on the show and was trying to find out how her name was pronounced. He certainly seems to leave it late to find out who the people he is going to have to interview really are. In fact he had to ask his staff when she was going to be on the program.
He also seemed to need assistance in finding out what he should ask her. Then he had no idea what the Capital of New Zealand is.
Didn’t see the intro, but she managed to dodge questions about the laughs at Trump well and got an advert for new direct flights to the U.S. in, which I thought was quite clever, and made a change from going on for 5 minutes about babies like the other ones
Why are you so unhappy all the time?
Irritable BM syndrome?
He doesn’t know how his own name’s pronounced wally.
Hello Gobby. Welcome back.
Back hair wally?
I understand that your revised medication is working for you Gobby.
That must be very nice for your relatives and friends.
It’s pronounced all-whine.
Everything before ‘But’ is bullshit.
Harking from New Zealand’s oil drilling heartland, a New Plymouth newscaster sees a new career niche for himself as a doubtcaster.
Following hard on the heels of the MBIE costings of the loss of taxes and wages, (no mention of loss to profits), caused by the cancellation on issuing any more oil prospecting licences. (Not the stopping new oil prospecting, as some oil industry alarmists claim), comes this:
Questioning the climate change inconsistencies
Jim Tucker – September 27, 2018
Not to be outdone:
EV drivers are bludgers costing NZ roads $7m per year
Rob Maetzig – September 27, 2018
Are these sort of news articles any conicidence at a time when the oil industry are squealing like stuck pigs at even the slightest of restrictions to drill baby drill forget about the climate costs. (we can externalise these costs and pass them on to you or your grandchildren)
Kia ora The Am Show EatMYlunch is a awesome cause 1 million lunches made .
How it works is when one buy lunch from eatmylunch they pay for 2 and one lunch is given to needy children free ka pai.
A criminal case review commission is what is needed interdependent review’s .
These people don’t have the money to higher lawyer to correct cases were people are charged for a crime they did not commit.
Mark I do say old guy’s matter but what they are doing to OUR World society treating it like a toilet has to STOP.
Finally the old men tangata wai splashing in there faces.
Duncan the tec guy was a set up from the start the timing of his release of his emails speaks clear and loud set up.
Yes judy tec guy it is all a bit strange if one has intelligence one could see it Duncan I hear bell’s lol. Heres a link below
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/107440994/derek-handley-refuses-to-confirm-or-deny-links-to-former-national-party-president-michelle-boag
Mark your poll gives a % 70 pass rate and climbing .
Look’s live Tova having a good time in New York .
Ka kite ano
The Cafe many thanks for high lighting FREEDOM FROM HUNGER DAY and play a song of Gorge Michaels FREEDOM
Mike Eco can see back ka kite ano
Some Eco Maori Music
Many thanks to the Indian Judges who have struck out laws that gave the man power to dominate wahine in Indian.
Ka pai te Papatuanuku society is growing up becoming more humane.
I know that Indian wahine still have a long road to walk but this is a good start Mana wahine link below Ka kite ano
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/27/asia/india-adultery-law-intl/index.html
I beleve that Kavnaugh is guilty first it is well know the American collage party culture there are a lot of movies made about this fact and many collage city’s in the west copy this culture .
Then he makes out hes a saint when we know what the side effects of drinking to much does to one self control and memory .
Any decent man would step down why because he is putting undue STRESS on his Family I put my family first . link is below Ka kite ano
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/107445581/wall-street-silence-tears-on-planes-us-watched-transfixed-as-she-told-her-story
Kia ora Newshub the star will not lose any shine when she gets back.
That’s the way students don’t let the power’s that be treat you as a lesser being.
Well that’s cool that the American owner of that farming station conforming to the Kiwi way of doing things ka pai
OUR Orca have a heap of pcp chemicals in there systems I read that Canada Orca half of there deaths are because of chemical in there environment this is why Im against poisons as we don’t know the long term effects they have on us or the creatures or our environment.
Some people just think about the now and not tomorrow that is quite plan to see.
They have not tested for long term effects have they of chemicals .
Elon Oil baron’s enough said.
Mr loop hole that English lawyer tell’s me I’m correct money can buy impunity .
That Mega Yacht is a beautiful boat there you go our boat industry’s are booming ka pai
It’s about time that the council in Te taiwhiti is trying to find solution’s to the mess that has been caused by clear felling whole forestry’s and flooding. That problem is all the way down the coast. The positive thing about it is the Trawler’s will be pushed out deeper or they will lose or rip up there trawling gear . That happen a bit after Cyclone Bolar .
Ka kite ano
Kia ora The Crowd Goes Wild Wairangi & Storm .The Rugby & League Grandfinal will be awesome this weekend .
One can see that I don’t know the over sea Netball team’s name’s Storm I tau toko the Silver Fern’s cool outfit Wai lol laughter is good for the wairua .
Kia kaha te Apricots Cricket team .
The ball skills of our Rugby and League team’s are quite awesome to watch .
Ka kite ano P.S The League wahine team’s have some mean tackles Kia kaha