There are a few parallels with the 2023 election result and the All Black loss over the weekend. First, we all lose at times. Second, sometimes there's not much in it, and what will the TMO say as the results are reviewed on November 3? Third, how will the new coach/captain/new players perform? Fourth, look what happens when players don't perform, are sin-binned, are seduced into playing overseas or just plain drop the bloody ball or miss the posts.
Well, at least we weren't beaten by the Aussies!
Oh…… the Black Caps just were.
And we, the crowd, we just have to go back home and get on with it, each other and whatever it is that the world, weather and wars dish out to us.
Yeah I don't know what to think about Israel anymore tbh. My only certainty in all of this is to get rid of Netanyahu and Likud & their fellow travellers and from there we need to proceed.
I just hope all the innocent civilians from both sides are okay and that they live to try to establish something new from the ashes of all of this.
It is more. Gaza is supposed to be, practically, a separate state.
But, as with all power holders, Israel is able to dictate when the West Bank and Gaza are considered autonomous, and when they are not. It changes depending on their interests.
It's also why they will never win and will always consider themselves under threat, forever. I think they and they leaders simply prefer it this way.
Gaza is in that grey area of being self governing, but under border control because it is supposed to be part of a future Palestine state – one realised by some two state peace settlement (or otherwise they will be like the Korean peninsular is with two states).
The best course would be for Gaza to be a separate state (and control of its own borders – it would still need secure water and power sorted) and then merge with the WB when the PA gets control there.
UN administration is the best course, but expecting the UN to actually solve anything …
That's because they are always under threat and if you aren't aware of that then I suggest you do some research and learn the facts about Israel and the surrounding states in the middle east.
There’s a reason why Tories go on holiday there. They’d love all the culture and touristy appropriation, but with sovereignty imposed by gunboat. That’s what the Treaty ‘reviews’ etc are.
I feel that "right to exist" discussions are essentially meaningless and don't help. I'd start from the position that all extant states have a right not to be made non-existent, especially by force, which is already the case in international conventions. Whether any settler-colonial state ever had the right to be created is a different question and it's solely of academic interest – we have to deal with the cards history has dealt. None of this means that states have a right never to be pressured to change their constitution, laws and behaviour.
I'd start from the position that all extant states have a right not to be made non-existent, especially by force, which is already the case in international conventions.
Fully agree. Israel does have a right to exist but not at the expense of trying to annihilate another nation's citizens, most of whom are innocent of any acts of terrorism.
Are you seriously holding up the war in Ukraine as sufficient reason to slaughter more than 6 thousand innocent civilians in Gaza? More than half of which are children? Israel has continued, from its inception, to find ways to eliminate the inconvenient native population. Beginning in 1948 with the murder and displacement of over 50 % of the population. The destruction of 50% of villages. The ruins of which some of the settler communities invaded by Hamas were built on.
Its about the most pathetic excuse for supporting war crimes that I've come across
Argue the point. Which was the absurd and indefensible claim made.
To which you added your own
Beginning in 1948 with the murder and displacement of over 50 % of the population.
Risible. Few were killed, and some of the displaced left because of the coming Arab army invasion. Over 90% of Jews in Arab nations were displaced (most) or killed (few) at this time and all Jews either killed or displaced from the West Bank.
Its about the most pathetic excuse for supporting war crimes that I've come across
Another lie. I was challenging a false accusation. War does not create a license to slander.
PS The death rate of children in war tome as a consequence of bombing is a function of the population demographics.
From Ilan Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. This is documented history told from the perspective of the victims. Pappe further states that if the Yugoslav ethnic cleansing had not occurred then the UN definitions of this war crime would have fit the history of Israels ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Sure, but Pappe here mentioned nothing about killings of Palestinians (only some were).
And he does not mention some Arabs within the area left rather than be in the war zone (presumably because they were not allowed to return), or that some of the refugees were in the area that Israeli territory expanded into during the 1948 war (Gaza to WB land bridge for example).
Few were killed, and some of the displaced left because of the coming Arab army invasion. Over 90% of Jews in Arab nations were displaced (most) or killed (few) at this time and all Jews either killed or displaced from the West Bank.
Pappe further states that if the Yugoslav ethnic cleansing had not occurred then the UN definitions of this war crime would have fit the history of Israels ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Pappe does not mention the equivalent matters of the killing or expulsion of Jews from areas the Arab armies occupied. As with the break up of Yugoslavia and with the 1947 partition, when there is war rather than acceptance of established or agreed upon borders there is death and displacement. Something we can see in the Donbass etc.
Rubbish. Learn some history. You should start by learning about what happened in 1948 especially when you're making comments about the supposed "inconvenient native population"
Your comment is a pathetic excuse for supporting the murder and rape by scumbag terrorists of 1000's of innocent civilians including the cold blooded murder of babies. Hope you realize that Hamas views you as a useful idiot.
So you believe that there is an attempt to annihilate Gaza residents, because of the military action there, but not so in Ukraine? (my bold)
I made no such claim. An attempt to justify some petty fogging point for the sake of it?
Apart from both being being led by bloody minded right-wing politicians with fascist tendencies, Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Israel's invasion of Palestine are two different wars in two different places for [largely] two different reasons. A person is allowed to comment on one without reference to the other. FFS.
It's an outrageous slander, and without any evidence of similar outrageous claims against other nations engaged in war, it could be called one based on anti-Semitism.
Play the anti semitism card all you like. This isnt the UK. From Mondoweiss we know that current thinking of both an influential think tank linked to Netanyahu and Israeli Intelligence Ministry is to move the population of Gaza out of Gaza into tent cities in the Sinai. Do you know the correct name for these plans? It's called ethnic cleansing. It's a war crime and it has been continuous since before 1948.
1.Egypt does not want to see refugee camps in the Sinai (nor would Jordan want to see that).
2.As per the Mondoweiss report – Egypt is building residential apartments in 2 satellites cities off Cairo to cater for a growing population (and to modernise housing) not to house Palestinians.
Do you know the correct name for these plans? It's called ethnic cleansing. It's a war crime and it has been continuous since before 1948.
The stated plan is to end Hamas rule of Gaza and to hand over responsibility to someone else for that area.
How before 1948?
And from 1948, if there had been no threat from 5 Arab nations to destroy the state of Israel, there would have been no displaced people – just 2 states with an Arab minority in one and a Jewish minority in the other.
But what they were offered was the partition plan and they accepted the terms of it.
But for the attack by the 5 Arab armies …. there would have been 2 states and a larger Arab minority in Israel and more Jews living in Arab nations as they did before 1948.
It was not continuous 1948-1967.
It became more questionable after 1967, not having a peace with surrounding states would have been the only valid reason not to set up a self governing Palestinian state then.
It does seem that Likud (Irgun and Stern origin) – government from 1977 – is the party in Israel that has tried to return to that pre 1948 ambition.
It began with the settlement building and then the land for peace deal with Egypt to secure that border. Then onto incursion in Lebanon (and then their first resort to the hostage swap). And being so willing to show how tough they were each provocation would be followed by the now over used (and faintly ridiculous) term "non proportionate" response.
With Likud there were now two actors who want to win it all and not abide by the international consensus of 1947-48. The irony is that the extremists see each other as the reason why they can win.
PS The Israeli unity government includes "Blue and White" (currently more popular than Likud in the polls), so whatever agendas some on the right have for Likud, there are still some limits on them.
Would you call Jewish Voices for Peace anti semitic? Or are they just self haters? Their call for a cease fire and justice for Palestine shut down New York Grand Central
Why, have they called the war against Hamas in Gaza an attempt to “annihilate” the residents there? And if they did, it might be better referred to as either anti-Zionist (Neturai Karta like) or anti-Israeli government policy because it was not sourced in anti semtism.
Some oppose the option to war against Hamas because they want to negotiate over hostages (or at least as first option). Others oppose Israeli policy on the West Bank. Clearly some Jewish groups do both.
It’s about 50-50 in Israel on the former, but they keep electing Likud led regimes …
Try scrolling through one or two of the photos in this Reuters article about the massive protest by Jewish groups in New York. Read one or two of the placards they are carrying. I cant locate any referencing hostages. Plenty say things like "Don't kill kids like me! ", "Free Palestine", "No to genocide", "Israel is a terrorist state". So I think you may have a bit of an ostrich problem. Its amazing how much clearer the view is when you pull your head out.
Lots of horror from Jews at what the Israeli state is unleashing. Not sure where your 50/50 comes from. Just another one of your baseless reckons I reckon
It’s about 50-50 in Israel on the former (opposing the military action because they want negotiation over hostages), but they keep electing Likud led regimes …. (despite their WB policy).
According to you "I was accusing Israel of attempting to annihilate Gaza residents, because of the military action there, but not so in Ukraine."
Nonsense.
Now you claim that my comment was anoutrageous slander? Really? You mean that Israel didn't know that its current bombardment of Palestine was going to kill ordinary citizens by the thousands and adding more thousands on a daily basis until they have been severely depleted? Somebody please explain it to them. (sarc.)
Israel does have a right to exist but not at the expense of trying to annihilate another nation's citizens,
This is the comment I was an am objecting too. Stop evading.
And if bombing urban centres, civilian areas, was an attempt to annihilate the residents, then that would apply to near all use of air power in war for near a century.
This conflict is slightly unusual in that Hamas hides in bunkers below ground, in which it stores rockets and uses to move its forces.
A look at the list of candidates for the Port Waikato by-election is disturbing for supporters of the left.
Neither Labour, the Greens or Te Pati Maori are standing candidates. Although there is a Gordon Dickson standing as an independent. This might be the same Gordon Dickson who was a Labour candidate for Selwyn back in 2014 but later fell out with the party.
The list is mainly made up of parties of the right, including the conspiracy theorists.
The nearest one gets to anyone from the left is perhaps Jill Ovens of the Women's Rights Party but I don't know enough about them to make an informed comment.
I can kind of understand that Labour doesn't want to, although its official reasons which basically is that it doesn't have the money are pretty damned weak, but the Greens not being interested in very disappointing to me.
If you are a supporter of the left in Port Waikato you may as well stay at home.
That no-one is prepared to put themselves up to give an alternative for the few voters that want to stand up against the NACT/conspiracy theorist alliance in this smug blue-arsed National fiefdom is sad.
The WRP Party didn't really feature in the general election coverage. With the focus on a single electorate, the fact that they are the only left party competing will give them a good opportunity to get some valuable publicity, at least.
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You know things are desperate when an ED nurse of 40 years experience complains “ What’s going on, the games gone soft” over to much TMO interference.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/27/a-red-card-could-ruin-the-rwc-final-why-the-game-needs-fairer-rulings/
Wayne Brown and T-MO winning by a goldmine.
That’s what bloody happens when you change the government. Useless bloody Nats it’s all their fault.
Send a losing minister from a losing government to a RWC final and look what happens 😁
NZ elected a National-led council of thieves on October 14.
The All Blacks are beaten in the Rugby World Cup final two weeks later.
God is punishing us for our sins.
Penance has been paid.
All is not lost. We’ll have at least two further chances to win the RWC under our new government.
Politics and sport do mix.
There are a few parallels with the 2023 election result and the All Black loss over the weekend. First, we all lose at times. Second, sometimes there's not much in it, and what will the TMO say as the results are reviewed on November 3? Third, how will the new coach/captain/new players perform? Fourth, look what happens when players don't perform, are sin-binned, are seduced into playing overseas or just plain drop the bloody ball or miss the posts.
Well, at least we weren't beaten by the Aussies!
Oh…… the Black Caps just were.
And we, the crowd, we just have to go back home and get on with it, each other and whatever it is that the world, weather and wars dish out to us.
With his gf called 'susie'..what do you..expect?
Hold that Christopher Luxon photo-op ….
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/live/2023/oct/28/rugby-world-cup-final-new-zealand-v-south-africa-live-score-updates
Wayne Barnes. Slip of the digit. Correction to my previous comment.
Heard rumours that the TMO can now go back so far in advance to rule out an ABs try, Wayne Barnes has finally called the forward pass from 2007…
Which forward pass do you mean—the one by the All Blacks before McAlister's try or the one by the Tricolours before Jauzion's?
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67246761
Darkness and almost total silence. All forms of communication has ceased.
6 million Jews died under a fascist regime. Millions more dying or going to die under a new fascist regime – a Jewish regime.
My support for the right of Israel to exist in its present form has run out.
Yeah I don't know what to think about Israel anymore tbh. My only certainty in all of this is to get rid of Netanyahu and Likud & their fellow travellers and from there we need to proceed.
I just hope all the innocent civilians from both sides are okay and that they live to try to establish something new from the ashes of all of this.
Do you question the right of Russia to exist?
Millions ….(remember the saying about new MP’s in parliament) …
By that what do you mean?
I'm talking about the millions (anything from 1 to 6 ) who will die if Israel continues on its present path under the current administration.
Russia? A false dichotomy.
Why would that happen on their current path?
Israel is 'currently' bombing Gaza into the ground.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/oct/28/israel-hamas-war-live-gaza-phone-and-internet-cut-off-as-israel-intensifies-bombardment
No more than some rebel held cities in Syria.
It is more. Gaza is supposed to be, practically, a separate state.
But, as with all power holders, Israel is able to dictate when the West Bank and Gaza are considered autonomous, and when they are not. It changes depending on their interests.
It's also why they will never win and will always consider themselves under threat, forever. I think they and they leaders simply prefer it this way.
Gaza is in that grey area of being self governing, but under border control because it is supposed to be part of a future Palestine state – one realised by some two state peace settlement (or otherwise they will be like the Korean peninsular is with two states).
The best course would be for Gaza to be a separate state (and control of its own borders – it would still need secure water and power sorted) and then merge with the WB when the PA gets control there.
UN administration is the best course, but expecting the UN to actually solve anything …
"…will always consider themselves under threat,…"
That's because they are always under threat and if you aren't aware of that then I suggest you do some research and learn the facts about Israel and the surrounding states in the middle east.
Is Russia a false dichotomy?
Generally the rule is – if a nation starts a war the regime is defeated, occupied and undergoes regime replacement.
But Russia would still exist as a nation state.
Ok
So like the US for most of its lifetime?
The building of the Russian state took centuries of expansion.
From a new world settlement into the interior after 1789, then 1846-48 vs Mexico, 1898 vs Spain for the US of A.
Don't forget Hawai'i in 1893, up till then an independent kingdom, internationally recognised as such.
The first monarch to circumnavigate the world was from Hawai'i
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kal%C4%81kaua%27s_1881_world_tour
Fascinating story.
There’s a reason why Tories go on holiday there. They’d love all the culture and touristy appropriation, but with sovereignty imposed by gunboat. That’s what the Treaty ‘reviews’ etc are.
I feel that "right to exist" discussions are essentially meaningless and don't help. I'd start from the position that all extant states have a right not to be made non-existent, especially by force, which is already the case in international conventions. Whether any settler-colonial state ever had the right to be created is a different question and it's solely of academic interest – we have to deal with the cards history has dealt. None of this means that states have a right never to be pressured to change their constitution, laws and behaviour.
Fully agree. Israel does have a right to exist but not at the expense of trying to annihilate another nation's citizens, most of whom are innocent of any acts of terrorism.
So you believe that there is an attempt to annihilate Gaza residents, because of the military action there, but not so in Ukraine?
Is this based on the number of deaths, the number of refugees, or the cut off of power etc compared to that in Ukraine?
Are you seriously holding up the war in Ukraine as sufficient reason to slaughter more than 6 thousand innocent civilians in Gaza? More than half of which are children? Israel has continued, from its inception, to find ways to eliminate the inconvenient native population. Beginning in 1948 with the murder and displacement of over 50 % of the population. The destruction of 50% of villages. The ruins of which some of the settler communities invaded by Hamas were built on.
Its about the most pathetic excuse for supporting war crimes that I've come across
Argue the point. Which was the absurd and indefensible claim made.
To which you added your own
Risible. Few were killed, and some of the displaced left because of the coming Arab army invasion. Over 90% of Jews in Arab nations were displaced (most) or killed (few) at this time and all Jews either killed or displaced from the West Bank.
Another lie. I was challenging a false accusation. War does not create a license to slander.
PS The death rate of children in war tome as a consequence of bombing is a function of the population demographics.
Imagine thatnotso long ago, in any givencountryyou are familiar with, halfof the entire populationhadbeen forcibly expelled within a year, halfofits villagesandtowns wiped out, leav-ingbehindonly rubbleandstones. Imaginenowthe possibility that some-howthis act will never make it into the history booksandthatall diplomatic efforts to solve the contlict thateruptedin thatcountrywill totally sideline, ifnotignore, this catastrophic event.
From Ilan Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. This is documented history told from the perspective of the victims. Pappe further states that if the Yugoslav ethnic cleansing had not occurred then the UN definitions of this war crime would have fit the history of Israels ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
Sure, but Pappe here mentioned nothing about killings of Palestinians (only some were).
And he does not mention some Arabs within the area left rather than be in the war zone (presumably because they were not allowed to return), or that some of the refugees were in the area that Israeli territory expanded into during the 1948 war (Gaza to WB land bridge for example).
Pappe does not mention the equivalent matters of the killing or expulsion of Jews from areas the Arab armies occupied. As with the break up of Yugoslavia and with the 1947 partition, when there is war rather than acceptance of established or agreed upon borders there is death and displacement. Something we can see in the Donbass etc.
Rubbish. Learn some history. You should start by learning about what happened in 1948 especially when you're making comments about the supposed "inconvenient native population"
Your comment is a pathetic excuse for supporting the murder and rape by scumbag terrorists of 1000's of innocent civilians including the cold blooded murder of babies. Hope you realize that Hamas views you as a useful idiot.
I made no such claim. An attempt to justify some petty fogging point for the sake of it?
Apart from both being being led by bloody minded right-wing politicians with fascist tendencies, Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Israel's invasion of Palestine are two different wars in two different places for [largely] two different reasons. A person is allowed to comment on one without reference to the other. FFS.
You made the claim that Israel was
It's an outrageous slander, and without any evidence of similar outrageous claims against other nations engaged in war, it could be called one based on anti-Semitism.
Play the anti semitism card all you like. This isnt the UK. From Mondoweiss we know that current thinking of both an influential think tank linked to Netanyahu and Israeli Intelligence Ministry is to move the population of Gaza out of Gaza into tent cities in the Sinai. Do you know the correct name for these plans? It's called ethnic cleansing. It's a war crime and it has been continuous since before 1948.
Sure.
And even in the UK it is known that
1.Egypt does not want to see refugee camps in the Sinai (nor would Jordan want to see that).
2.As per the Mondoweiss report – Egypt is building residential apartments in 2 satellites cities off Cairo to cater for a growing population (and to modernise housing) not to house Palestinians.
The stated plan is to end Hamas rule of Gaza and to hand over responsibility to someone else for that area.
How before 1948?
And from 1948, if there had been no threat from 5 Arab nations to destroy the state of Israel, there would have been no displaced people – just 2 states with an Arab minority in one and a Jewish minority in the other.
'I am for compulsory transfer; I do not see anything immoral in it.' David Ben-Gurion to the Jewish Agency Executive,June1938
Or from the same source
“It should be clear to us that there is no room in Palestine for these two peoples. No ‘development’ will bring us to our goal of independent nationhood in this small country. Without the Arabs, the land will become wide and spacious for us; with the Arabs, the land will remain sparse and cramped”
Yosef Weitz 3 years later in 1940
But what they were offered was the partition plan and they accepted the terms of it.
But for the attack by the 5 Arab armies …. there would have been 2 states and a larger Arab minority in Israel and more Jews living in Arab nations as they did before 1948.
It was not continuous 1948-1967.
It became more questionable after 1967, not having a peace with surrounding states would have been the only valid reason not to set up a self governing Palestinian state then.
It does seem that Likud (Irgun and Stern origin) – government from 1977 – is the party in Israel that has tried to return to that pre 1948 ambition.
It began with the settlement building and then the land for peace deal with Egypt to secure that border. Then onto incursion in Lebanon (and then their first resort to the hostage swap). And being so willing to show how tough they were each provocation would be followed by the now over used (and faintly ridiculous) term "non proportionate" response.
With Likud there were now two actors who want to win it all and not abide by the international consensus of 1947-48. The irony is that the extremists see each other as the reason why they can win.
PS The Israeli unity government includes "Blue and White" (currently more popular than Likud in the polls), so whatever agendas some on the right have for Likud, there are still some limits on them.
Would you call Jewish Voices for Peace anti semitic? Or are they just self haters? Their call for a cease fire and justice for Palestine shut down New York Grand Central
Why, have they called the war against Hamas in Gaza an attempt to “annihilate” the residents there? And if they did, it might be better referred to as either anti-Zionist (Neturai Karta like) or anti-Israeli government policy because it was not sourced in anti semtism.
Some oppose the option to war against Hamas because they want to negotiate over hostages (or at least as first option). Others oppose Israeli policy on the West Bank. Clearly some Jewish groups do both.
It’s about 50-50 in Israel on the former, but they keep electing Likud led regimes …
Try scrolling through one or two of the photos in this Reuters article about the massive protest by Jewish groups in New York. Read one or two of the placards they are carrying. I cant locate any referencing hostages. Plenty say things like "Don't kill kids like me! ", "Free Palestine", "No to genocide", "Israel is a terrorist state". So I think you may have a bit of an ostrich problem. Its amazing how much clearer the view is when you pull your head out.
It was a Jewish organised one, not exclusively Jewish – be observant. And (the anti-Zionist) NK appear to be the "Orthodox Jews" in the video.
And it was not a massive protest, it was large scale civil disobedience.
Or from the earlier Al Jazeera linked article
While Shabbat is typically a day of rest, we cannot afford to rest while genocide is unfolding in our names,” Rabbi May Ye, was quoted as saying in a statement released by the organisers.
Lots of horror from Jews at what the Israeli state is unleashing. Not sure where your 50/50 comes from. Just another one of your baseless reckons I reckon
No wrong again.
It’s about 50-50 in Israel on the former (opposing the military action because they want negotiation over hostages), but they keep electing Likud led regimes …. (despite their WB policy).
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-27/ty-article/israeli-poll-finds-49-support-holding-off-on-gaza-ground-offensive/0000018b-6faa-d1da-a1bb-6fba47b00000
According to you "I was accusing Israel of attempting to annihilate Gaza residents, because of the military action there, but not so in Ukraine."
Nonsense.
Now you claim that my comment was an outrageous slander? Really? You mean that Israel didn't know that its current bombardment of Palestine was going to kill ordinary citizens by the thousands and adding more thousands on a daily basis until they have been severely depleted? Somebody please explain it to them. (sarc.)
This is the comment I was an am objecting too. Stop evading.
And if bombing urban centres, civilian areas, was an attempt to annihilate the residents, then that would apply to near all use of air power in war for near a century.
This conflict is slightly unusual in that Hamas hides in bunkers below ground, in which it stores rockets and uses to move its forces.
Israel has a right to exist so does Palestine. Just without Netanyahu or his cronies and without Hamas controlling Palestine's future.
That’s my hope and dream: that they can both be at peace.
God Bless the UAW!!!
More wins, this time a tentative deal with Stellantis.
A look at the list of candidates for the Port Waikato by-election is disturbing for supporters of the left.
Neither Labour, the Greens or Te Pati Maori are standing candidates. Although there is a Gordon Dickson standing as an independent. This might be the same Gordon Dickson who was a Labour candidate for Selwyn back in 2014 but later fell out with the party.
The list is mainly made up of parties of the right, including the conspiracy theorists.
The nearest one gets to anyone from the left is perhaps Jill Ovens of the Women's Rights Party but I don't know enough about them to make an informed comment.
I can kind of understand that Labour doesn't want to, although its official reasons which basically is that it doesn't have the money are pretty damned weak, but the Greens not being interested in very disappointing to me.
If you are a supporter of the left in Port Waikato you may as well stay at home.
That no-one is prepared to put themselves up to give an alternative for the few voters that want to stand up against the NACT/conspiracy theorist alliance in this smug blue-arsed National fiefdom is sad.
Ovens has a solid left background. WRP policy looks left wing to me as well.
https://thestandard.org.nz/the-womens-rights-party/
The WRP Party didn't really feature in the general election coverage. With the focus on a single electorate, the fact that they are the only left party competing will give them a good opportunity to get some valuable publicity, at least.
My prediction is: less than half the registered voters will be bothering to vote anyway.
I'm in the electorate and will be staying home. Andrew Bayley is a dud MP, but he wears a blue ribbon so will have no problem winning.