Tīwaiwaka wahine would be female fantail; Gezza, but ka te pai for making the effort. Less poetically, it was probably after the insects that were stirred up by your presence – which is why they seem to be such a friendly bird to humans.
“tīwakawaka
1. (noun) fantail – a small, friendly, insect-eating bird of the bush and domestic gardens which has a distinctive tail resembling a spread fan.
Nā, kia mōhio tātou, ko ngā tīwaiwaka e tītakataka nei ka hura rā hoki ngā hukumaro ki runga, ka riro ko te upoko ki raro (TTT 1/10/1929:1086). / Now, we should know that fantails flit about opening their tail feathers up and with their head going down.
(Te Pihinga Study Guide (Ed. 1): 2; Te Māhuri Textbook (Ed. 2): 182;)”
It’s also known as he pīwakawaka in some other parts of te motu.
A wahine toa Māori friend of mine in her 60s up in Northland always shortens the name to tīwaka when she writes about hers up there – which is why I did. (Thanks for the reminder about the macron being needed on the ī, btw.)
PS: No, it's not after insects stirred up by me. I saw it flitting about in the trees across the stream. I'm just standing by my fence, not moving. I called it over. I know how to mimic a tīwakawaka call.
That is impressive; Gezza, my own whistling has a half octave range, and even then; there is a rather wet slurring to the pitch (probably learning brass at school messed up my embouchure habits for whistling, and other flutes). Āe, ngā reo ā-iwi certainly do make the language interesting – if it was intentional and had precedent then you're not wrong,
My tīwaka call is a variation on a “kissy” sound. I suck air thru my teeth. A bit hard to describe further beyond that. I can get it to sound quite loud & it carries across the stream.
Another neat trick a lady friend of mine in Huntly uses is to rub two pieces of polystyrene foam together. I tried it, & it works on my fantails here. 👍🏼
My Māori friend up north lives off grid with her partner in te Hokianga. Her tūrangawaewae is East Coast tho. She spent many years as a possum hunter & trapper. Now she’s becoming quite a tohunga rongoā.
Off to get my second shot of vaccine today; more like 9 weeks after the first than the intended 12, but school holidays start at the end of the week and I want to be over any reactions and side effects before I am being scamped 24/7 again. I had the soreness at injection site for a day or two last time, expecting the wiped-outness this time around, so have got a bunch of DVDs from the library (including the reCGed Sagan Cosmos!) and arranged for a friend to come over to watch them (and over me) the next couple of evenings. I did the same for them a couple of weeks back when they had their 6 week jab. Though that was more snuggling together in front of a winter fire.
Vacci-dating is a very 2021 form of social interaction.
Ad, I was trying to imagine what your pain and torment was like, having likened it to that of Lawrence of Arabia. Was it like suffering riding a camel cross-legged across a stony desert all day with little water? Still, he got to be a wise man, did TE Lawrence, after the experience, with his "Seven Pillars of Wisdom".
Then I realised you had just got through a bad day by watching the film, not by reliving it. I'm glad you're better. My second jab took my energy so that a usual Sunday morning hill walk climbing 400 metres had me stopping five times on the uphill stretch-usually one stop 'for the view'.
Lawrence taught me that the major religions all came out of the desert as a result of encounters with open, starry night skies. I still seek spiritual solace that way- without the panadol, but sometimes with a wee dram……..
COVID is certainly the disease of the unvaccinated according to healthcare workers. And now thanks to “Roger’n’Ruth’s” toxic neo liberal legacy, it is also the disease of the alienated working class poor.
It is pretty clear what needs to be done, albeit obviously too late for this current virus outbreak.
–Pay all citizens a basic income via IRD (recovered via taxation from higher earners)
–Fare free public transport and free Wifi nationwide
–Rent control at all times
–Rent freeze and mortgage holiday during any lockdowns
–State house and apartment mega build, emergency housing and homeless tiny house build in all towns and regions
But what is the Govt.’s latest move? relax conditions for migrant workers just as upward pressure on wages was building in a tighter labour market! Yes migrant workers have been treated appallingly for ever and redress is needed, but really employers and the NZ petit bourgeois just get such favoured treatment from this majority Labour Govt. Bring on 2023 and 2026 I say.
Bribery and punishment rarely work to incentivise good behaviour, so John Key should put down the wooden spoon about vaccine-hesitant people, writes Jess Berentson-Shaw
So when I read John Key suggesting that “incentives” should make up a core part of our vaccination strategy (that means offering a mix of material “rewards” for getting vaccinated and sanctions for not), I rolled my eyes.
Save us from conservative men with opinions telling us that what hesitant people really need to get themselves vaccinated is a bit of tough love. It's the rhetorical equivalent to shouting “boot camps!” in response to youth crime.
Poor old conservative John Key. He doesn't get the respect now that he believes that he deserves.
It's a good scheme – time to break with that strange conservative reflex of Peter Dunne's that has NZ trailing liberalization even of countries as backward as the US.
Better for everyone that gangs are mellow – and vaccinated.
Apropos the notion in National's pandemic response of purpose-built quarantine facilities near Auckland airport to open in early 2022. On CNN today:
China has built a 5,000-room quarantine centre for overseas arrivals.
– A (NZ) $378 million, 5,000-room quarantine facility for incoming travellers opening in Guangzhou.
– Size of 46 football fields, took less than three months to be built from scratch on outskirts of the city.
– Travellers transferred directly from the airport on buses, confined to their rooms for at least two weeks. Three meals a day delivered by robots — minimized direct contact with staff.
– More than 4,000 workers assigned to the construction site. The facility completed earlier this month and a first batch of 184 medical staff moved in last week
– Designed as bubble isolated from rest of city – travellers, AND workers placed under effective lockdown.
– Medical staff work 28 days at the facility, go through week of quarantine themselves, and another two weeks of home quarantine before allowed to go outside.
That can happen in a dictatorship with unlimited resources.
NZ has a massive shortage of construction workers Shortages of building materials many imported from China supply constrictions ,lack of ships operating due to covid.
I have observed the calls to have unlimited resources, instant, dictatorship type action.
Do you think it's funny when such calls come from those who freak out and scream "Dictatorship!" when there are rules about wearing facemarks on public transport and suggestions about wearing them in public?
Don't you think it's funny when people anti a particular government demand unlimited resources, instant action then if anything is done at haste to meet the perceived needs of a situation, wail "What about consultation?!"
New Covid-19 poster child, Ireland, has 40,000 active cases and recorded 40 deaths yesterday. Bloomberg says Ireland is the best place to be right now.
National wants purpose built quarantine centre by early 2022. Have they been asked just how that would be done? Land to be acquired, council consents to be applied for, architects and designers selected to draw up plans, contractors and sub-contractors to be tendered for, building materials to be ordered and trades people to be hired all in the next 5-6 months for completion in early 2022. One of the nuttiest ideas ever.
Government has already been working on this for some time and National knows this. National pretends to come up with new innovative plans whilst painting the Government as a shambolic useless lot and then claiming the credit when it is actually happening AKA I told you so. Cheap lazy political point-scoring and grandstanding and not fit for Government.
there appears to be an almost without exception complete media black out on the Select Committee Hearing on the BMDRR Bill
So hears my update.
Select committee members are showing very overtly they are biased in favour of the bill when submitters are against the bill.
Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this biasis.
One MP , Dr Elizabeth Kerekere, posted a screenshot from the zoom call, with a submitter who opposes the bill accusing them of hate speech. This is likely defamation, but also completely undermines the Select Committee process as it amounts to intimidation. ie if you present an opposing view to the views the select committee clearly holds, you risk being put on FB and acccused of hate speech
With counting almost complete the numbers against the bill outweigh the numbers for the bill by 75 to 25%
There have been a number of Maori wahine presenting against the bill
Pasifica have also presented against the beill
Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle are part of an group of prominant older feminists who are presenting against the Bill and calling for a Royal Commission of Enquiry into sex and gender.
Stuff, Herald, TVNZ Radio NZ Newshub………..your welcome
I have been really shocked by the contempt shown towards some submitters by members of the select committee. Shamefully, for me as a Labour Party member, the worst behaviour is coming from Labour MPs. I have seen eye rolling, scrolling through phones, frankly hostile and confrontational conduct. Deborah Russell has finished a day of intemperate conduct on the select committee and gone home to tweet that she wants to shout "oh do F*ck off" to submitters.
Along with Kerekere's facebook abuse of one group submitting, and Rachel Boyack's barely concealed contempt, sitting pointedly scrolling through her phone during one group's submission, the whole process has been an appalling display of arrogance.
Committee members do not have to share the beliefs of submitters, but should have sufficient EQ to be able to listen respectfully and politely clarify points as required.
The conduct of the committee has been an absolute fiasco. Only Ian McKelvie and Nicola Griggs have shown any ability to conduct themselves appropriately. (It galls me to say this as I pathologically hate the Nats).
What on earth are the party chief whips doing, allowing this to happen? Do these MPs not know what their roles and responsibilities are? Do they not get some training on parliamentary processes and appropriate behaviour? Mallard has already said on Twitter that he has no role in sanctioning misbehaving MPs on select committees.
The whole thing has been a shameful episode for democartic processes. Labour should thank their lucky stars that the opposition are in such disarray.
A member who has (whether in the House or outside the House) made an allegation of crime or expressed a concluded view on any conduct or activity of a criminal nature, identifying by name or otherwise a person as being responsible for or associated with that crime, conduct, or activity (referred to as apparent bias), may not participate—
The Births deaths , marriages and relationships Bill is really about being able to change gender.
For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision
Regardless of one's views about the bill, members of the public should be able to submit to the select committee without fear of intimidation from MPs. If you support democratic processes, it is really important that the integrity of the select committee process is preserved. If this becomes the new standard of conduct for discussing differing views we are heading to a very dark place.
No eye rolls arent intimidation, but i imagine it could be intimidating to some presenters.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech. Lets call it what it is intimidation
So if I am presenting the next day and am in disagreement with this bill, it would be realistic for me to fear the same thing happening.
The hate speech thing is a smear. Its intimidation and inappropriate for a MP to do this, probably breaks the harmful digital communication lawas and is in fact libleless.
FFS I thought you guys were all about the "safe spaces". Seems like that doesn't apply to women who disagree with you.
And where are the men on the Standard? Heads buried in ideology.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech
Can you please link, and be specific. I looked the other day and the FB post I saw didn't quite match your description. One of the reasons we ask for links a lot here is so that people can see what is being referred to and in context. It makes discussion much better when we are all working off the same page.
Ghostwalker, try reading John Minto submission which is againgst SOP59
or the Correction Officers who has a trans kid, but is against the bill cause he has seen a number of pregnancies in women's prison due to transgender women being there.
Fowls with older prominant feminists is fantastic (Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle, a former Green MP). They are against gender id and are calling for a royal commission into sex and gender.
or save Women's Sports oral submission with one of the submitters giving evidence of how transgender females are already in women's only spaces and the Bill will only accerelate and legitimize this. She gives a case of a gym where a transwomen sat and watched as women and girls got changed. So is anyone whose pro this bill alarm bells going off yet. The gym claimed they could do nothing which probably could be challenged, but not once this bill comes in.
Their is a Pacific Island GP who is really pissed off about this bill and the Conversion therapy bill, and she claims the lack of consultation with the PI community shows how hollow the apology for the dawn raids are. The is a huge number of Asian people submitting against this bill..
There are Christians of course, Lesbian groups, Maori wahine, women, mothers. There are people who wrote things like “Just don’t”. and is the Government completely mad.
btw, for clarity, the difference between the two comments is that the second one is someone reporting what they saw in the video. The first is saying that a sitting MP made a defamatory statement. The latter needs to be linked. The former, it would be good if people got in the habit of putting up links, but it's not particularly contentious.
(I don't think what Kerekere did is defamatory, because I think defamation needs to be a) a specific allegation or statement, 2) made against a specific person/s. EK's behaviour is appalling though)
Thanks weka. I did make that assumption when posting the link, but thought I'd better check given we are at the sharp end of the day.
I was disillusioned with the integrity of the select committee process when I attended one of the last minute ones held in Auckland for the TPPA. Both David Shearer and David Parker remain in my memory as equivalent to the eye-rolling and disdainful behaviour Anker relates in this instance.
It strikes me as farcical to refer to consultation conducted in such a way as democratic. I criticised such behaviour when it was exhibited by a National government. I am critical of the same behaviour and lack of genuine democracy being demonstrated by members of this government.
thanks, that's very helpful, I didn't know if what the Labour/GP women are doing was out of the norm for SCs or not. Very disappointing that it's normal, as well as the disappointment for this particular group of women.
What i really would like to know is if the Persons of the Green Party realise that in the end they too – like the persons of the Green Party in Germany have just a few days ago realised – that they will lose their jobs and their Persons Roll and their Persons Quota to Transwomen.
Next a transwomen to stand for Persons Co leadership of the Green Party.
But the real reason they are just being rude and obnoxious is that the fix is in, and this is just a wee spectacle to pretend that the democratic process is still functioning in their own parties.
So to finish up, lets discuss what some opposition party has done wrong today.
I wish to ask that you do not use such misogynist language towards women posters here. You are free to disagree, but sexist name calling is not appropriate on a left wing blog.
When its avoiding the core issue and complaining about 'process'… its Karens. …or Ill call it what it is privileged older white women.
[yes, you can name privileged, older white women (assuming you are being accurate). Because when you do that the political argument you are trying to make is clear and people can argue for or against it. If you use the term Karens, which is a perjorative, it derails the debate, by people having to stop and deal with the sexism. It’s tedious af. If you use Karens again like this, I will moderate accordingly. This isn’t FB or twitter. There is an expectation that people will engage here in robust debate not lazy slurs and throw away marginalising dismissals. – weka]
Given you don't know whether those you are referring to are:
privileged, older or white,
your justification is poor, immature and murky.
The only constant that exists in the use of Karen, is the biological sex of those who have it as a name. Since it is a derogatory term, it is both a lazy, and misogynistic label.
@Ghostwhowalksnz Good God. Not everything is about transgender. And I have never stated that I do not support their wish to have an official record of their gender identity. I always have supported that wish, and still do. Link to where I have stated otherwise (alternatively, stop making shit up)
Now, despite that misdirection, I believe your commitment to your repeated use of Karen can be seen as delighting in the misogynistic term it really is. But I guess as long as social media condones it, you don't have to take responsibility.
Karen – Seems to me to be a lazy, misogynistic term that seems to be an acceptable form of "bitch". And yes, I know that when this term goes, another will take its place., but…
… try to be brave, and say what you really think without a socially accepted veneer of sophistication.
Have you looked at your birth certificate ?It requires sex, not gender.The bill refuses to denote the differences between sex and gender.Pretty poor law making
Ghostwalker this is the bit you omitted about bias.
233 Complaints of apparent bias
(1) A complaint of apparent bias on the part of a member of a select committee may be made by any member (whether or not a member of the committee) or by any person appearing or about to appear before the committee whose reputation may be seriously damaged by proceedings of the committee.
(2) A complaint of apparent bias must be made, in writing, to the chairperson.
(3) The chairperson, after considering any information or comment from the member against whom the complaint is made, decides whether the member is disqualified by reason of apparent bias.
(4) Any member of a committee who is dissatisfied with the chairperson’s decision on a complaint of apparent bias may refer the matter to the Speaker for decision. The Speaker’s decision is final.
When I rechecked Rule 233 it says Witness Expenses ?
Complaints of Apparent bias section is my quote:
Rule 237 Complaints of apparent bias
Standing Orders By Chapter Select Committes 23 Oct 2020
You may be referring to an older version, however that version doesn’t dis allow MPs showing bias towards submitters.
Im sure single issue zealots mostly get that response
It is not about people changing gender – it is about people creating a biological fiction – that they have changed SEX – and cementing that as a legal fiction. There is a process to do that now – which has the appropriate safeguards against abuse. The proposal in the SOP enables anyone to make that change by was of a Statutory Declaration with very few safeguards.
Let's have a higher standard for ourselves and our MPs that what you have proposed as acceptable. The select committee process is supposedly a part of a democratic process, not performance art. (Mind you, after attending some of the TPPA submissions this assumption was fairly quickly dispatched for me.)
There is a high degree of arrogance to misuse such processes while calling them democratic.
I believe that arrogance has also interfered with the public discussion on the bill, which leads to you making such statements as:
"For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision"
Many of the submissions I have read have not been about this at all.
It has been about the failure of the bill, and the MP's promoting it, to outline how the practical application of this bill in real life may impact on issues not related to birth certificates or transgender people.
Their (I suspect deliberate) conflation of biological sex, gender and gender identity in public statements or meetings has made any discussion fraught with misunderstandings and confusion. I hold those MP's partly responsible for the oppositional nature of public discussions. They are definitely responsible for not doing more to bring clarity into the public sphere.
If you cannot see that there has been a failure to address the possible impact on removing the safeguarding and gatekeeping process and replacing it with a statutory declaration, then you haven't gone past the basics of this issue.
The current process is not there purely as a remnant of prejudice, it was a safeguard put in place to ensure that those who wanted to make such a change had contacted the necessary services and experienced what this may mean.
Regardless, of how impatient or desperate some are to make immediate change, this safeguarding process should not be completely removed. For the well-being of those making the change. Yet, no support services or counselling or medical advice requirement is included in this self-id process. That's arguably going to be a negative as time goes on, as those who required help for other issues, sought gender change as a solution when it was perhaps not appropriate. Given the impact on mental health for many making the transition, this removal takes away the pressure on successive governments to provide necessary services. A better solution would be to demand investment in the provisions of specialist services, and for universal access to streamline the process rather than do away with it altogether. What seems like an ideal proposal may turn out to be a negative.
The other issue is, that the self-id process as proposed, will be available to all members of the public. Not just those within the transgender community.
There has been no clarity from the MP's on how they will stop those people with malicious intent from using this process to remove their personal (possible criminal) histories from public view, easily change names and do so with an intent to commit crimes, harm and fraud. If this process is misused in such a way, this is also not good for the transgender community.
And that's without getting into the impact of these changes on the biological sex class of women.
It is a well-intentioned but poorly thought out piece of legislation, presented badly by the MP's promoting it.
Yes. As overseas its actually the amateur implications of this change which have the striking impact. Many things (such as removing single sex/female) categories will be removed justified by the overarching law change. This will happen even though there is no legal requirement to change and the justification claimed will be that the law has changed requiring this.
The supplementary order to the bill was presented as non controversial, having very little effect on the general population , and "bringing us into line with overseas countries"
I'm concerned that it gives legal recognition to a vastly changed concept of what the words female and woman means.This without wide consensus or consultation with the 50% of the population who this affects.
It seems there's been a total flip, now biological sex is a cultural concept (easily discarded with hormones and medical corrections) and gender is the new destiny, originating in the womb as an innate felt reality, trumping sex.
In the process of ratifying the new orthodoxy , and in the name of inclusivity , natal women are neutered, their breasts not to be mentioned in connection with milk, the femaleness of their periods reduced to desexed menstruating bodies.
We can't say pregnant women it seems , for risk of upsetting those who deny their material sex in favour of a preferred gender Ashley Bloomfield could have said pregnant men and women but perhaps he opted for brevity.
I'm very wary of changes in language to fit a new orthodoxy, pushed in large part by academia in the social sciences .
If you remove the sex class then you no longer have 'discrimination on the basis of sex'.
One day some Persons with prostates will realise that they too lost their sex status, but by then it will be too late.
What i want to know is, if sex is removed, say a Cop were to arrest you, can you be cavity searched by a Transwomen? Must a female cop cavity search a transwomen in a prison? Can transmen be drafted? Can in the future persons with intact reproductive facilities be compelled to breed children for those that have been neutered in the name of trans? Will be a surrogate incubator be a career choice for persons who no longer find employment? Same for the production of human milk, can a person be compelled by Winz to be a wet nurse? If a child is born to a person and a transwomen (who is the ejaculator in this case) will the state be the parent, as persons in prison can not consent to sex? And so on and so forth.
Already in a woman's rape crisis refuge in Scotland, a distraught woman victim asked to have a true female deal with her and administer the rape kit.Instead she was chided and told if she would not accept a transwoman (who knows what stage of transition)she would just have to stomach it and get over her bigotry.
Gender Identity is the new Immortal Soul. Anybody who supports the separation of Church and State should be concerned by this new ideology which seeks to use the levers of the State to privilege it above other belief systems. There is no more physiological evidence for the possession of a gender identity than there is for the possession of an immortal soul. And we all know what happened last time the populace was required to accept the beliefs of its rulers.
UK Labour now openly identifying as unelectable is basically healthy. Under Corbyn they were still making it a secret that they didn't want to be elected.
and a trans woman from the UK Debbie Hayton, who is I understand a science teacher also submitted. She is against gender self ID as she says it will back fire against trans people as women will protect their spaces “they have to”
Never mind, them persons/people/others will get used to their new status of person/people/other. And frankly we should abolish 'persons' rolls, or 'quota persons' they are as defunct as much as same ‘sex’ spaces.
No, I just followed the link that visubversa supplied and found the submission he had made.
From what I can see he is a blogger, architect and contributor to some online media sources.
The reference he makes to the redacted and poor RIS (Regulatory Impact Statement) was mentioned by a commentator a while ago. I did have a look at the time, but am not familiar with the regular form or nature of it, so couldn't comment on its comparison to others.
Thanks for the link. The way she writes about her acceptance of herself after many years as a trans woman chimes in with what I've taken from discussions with a person in my wider family circle who transitioned more than 20 years ago, and these discussions (and my experiences as a biological woman) are where my thoughts about this legislation fit.
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
So why is the government not considering making it mandatory for other risk based industries such as construction workers/road workers as well as work places where interaction with the public is high?
Or maybe it just has to do with the fact that we now have vaccines in the country and thus people that were stuck in Group 3 and 4 can actually get vaccinations?
Sorry, I forgot to put quote marks around the main paragraph:
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
That was the conclusion based on their responses – hesitancy due to misinformation. But they soon changed their minds when it became mandatory.
No-one is suggesting it should be across the board, but obviously making it mandatory for all high risk areas is a no-brainer.
Is this just me feeling a rant is coming on. Michael Venus is "thinking about" sueing the Gov because he cannot secure an MIQ spot. Firstly he is a professional sportsman and should be expecting problems flying in and out of the country and just grow a spine and get on with it. he is now going on to San Diego presumably to another fixture.
Secondly his wife and two young children are joining him there plus his mother. His mother is joining them and has quit her job as an emergency department nurse, a sorely needed job which will be missed and training will take up valuable time to replace her. Reason being for her to be going is that she will be a stay at home mum as Venus's wife will be working over there.
Now bugger me, Venus surely has sufficient PA earnings that he could afford a nanny for his kids and secondly why should it be an expectation that his mother will have to take over his wife's role. His mum may be more than happy to do this but the sense of entitlement Venus has, for thinking of sueing the Government and the cheek of even asking his mum to look after his kids.
Sorry but I am over entitled prats and their whinging and whining. Grow a spine Venus and get a life.
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
Apart from your dislike of persons discussing the issue, could you explain how you compare a current political action i.e. the discussion of bill that has wide ramifications in this country to the US election?
And this is the open Mike? So why not discuss it here, other then that some persons may not disagree with what some other persons have to say?
I have no dislike of any person having discussions on this issue although sometimes take offence at some of the language used. The comparison with the US election, as I stated, was based on the level of clogging up Open Mike. I am not trying to stifle your conversation but suggesting people from either side could CHOOSE to go to a dedicated post to voice their opinions on this topic.
As you say being such a critical situation affecting 50% of this countries population, I would have thought you would welcome the suggestion to have a daily post dedicated to the discussion until the Bill is finalised.
I'd like discussion to stay on Open Mike. The media have blacked out this issue of the BMDRR. So I kind of see it as my civic duty to get some information out to others.
I'm sure it has been done before. That is… a rolling post for a specific subject which is ongoing and controversial, thus freeing up OP for more general subject matter.
I am not sure what the language is you are referring to. I think you called me on transgender ideology. I hopefully clarrified to you that it is the ideology and how it is being imposed that I have a big problem with.
As I said to Ad yesterday I have been commenting on TS since 2013. I have never been warned, banned or had a threat of a ban in all that time.
I think I am pretty reasonable with my comments. I have had a lot of stuff chucked at me, but only when I am commenting on this issue. I have been accused of coming across as unhinged, I have been told I am stupid, I have been told I side with the idiot right wingers and I had it implied I made some sort of lewd suggestion about someone taking their daughter into a change room.
I post on this site, because there is a media black out about this bill. What I reported today was pretty factual about the. a Select Committee. Many regular commentators were keen to engage about this topic.
I suppose I am hoping at some stage some of the people on this site who aren't supportive of those of us who are gender critical may actually be able to acknowledge that there is a problem for women and girls with gender ideology and the attempt to legislate for self identification. Already male bodied people are turning up in women's spaces, eg. a transwoman in a change room watching women and teen girls change. I will never stop trying to bring this to peoples attention, because it is not o.k.
Attempted public discussions around the issue, well – I’m sure you can find some cancelled ones.
Just as I’m sure you can find some that weren’t cancelled.
Molly, one of Anker's assertions @12.1.1.3 was that "there is a media black out about this bill."
As "this bill" has been referred to in a few media reports (not a lot, I would agree), it seems inflammatory to mischaracterise the paucity of reporting as a "media black out", and I believe it’s unlikely to foster further dialogue.
Just my opinion – we can agree to disagree – peace.
Molly, the only times I have engaged on this topic is when I have taken offence at the language being used directed at the Trans Community. With your "be quiet, be quiet" narrative you are wrong. As I have stated above, today I have asked for a daily post dedicated to the discussions, that is hardly trying to shut you up, but when one does take offence to a "women with penises" remark they are jumped on for highlighting its offence. I personally would rather this matter be handled by the moderators, as I had addressed them, and am happy to leave it up to them, without me making further space on Open Mike.
"None of you need bother answering, the question is rhetorical. " and which you walked away from.
Open Mike 26/08/2021 which was more productive, but showed a tendency for you to say what you wanted, which was responded to, but you walked away again instead of addressing what other commentators had said. This pattern of expecting and receiving a response, but not returning the courtesy has been noticeable on this issue.
This pattern is not a discussion, it is a lecture.
I have not lectured any of you, you however!. I have highlighted when offensive remarks (imho) have been made, and no I am not going back to each thread to highlight them again, many of you have been party to the threads so will be well aware of the words used so I will not re-hash them. I will be very happy to have a discussion with Weka, who I addressed the last comment you mentioned to. This comment was addressed to the Moderators and as such we can, as Anker has done, and Sabine has alluded to, wait with patience to see what Weka or other moderators have to say, and/or voice your opinion to them why continuing the topic on Open Mike is a good idea. .
No, RBO. I think you are mistaken in thinking you have made a genuine attempt at discussion and sharing viewpoints. Despite people taking time to engage and respond to each of your comments in regards to content, you have given no indication in your comments that you have considered the content in theirs.
That is not a robust discussion, when all the listening is happening on one side. That is a lecture.
And you have been asked to provide a proof to your assertation that offensive language against the trans community was used, and used in order to offend.
Again, you are complaining about such language being used, and again you provide no link, nothing at all.
As far as i am concerned, moderators/authors on tis page have left various posts to discuss various issues. However not a single on of them has opened a post about this submission/hearing farce that is currently ongoing, other then Weka – and i think AD and MickeySavage who did a post in favour of it. Today however, not one Author did.
But maybe you could let us all know what you would like us to discuss on the open mike? Maybe the 'vaccine mandate', the locking up of people who may refuse to take vaccinations, the rubbishing of peoples stuck overseas or here due to no spaces in MIQ or no flights that would fit MIQ? Maybe you would like to discuss childhood poverty and that of the poor parents? Maybe you would like to discuss the medical services that can't be accessed by many people because AKL is in lockdown and will remain in lockdown for the foreseeable future? Maybe you would like to discuss the rental shortage, the extortionist prices for human habitat?
What would be an appropriate thing to discuss on the opne mike in your view?
I should make the effort, but the people dominating the discussion at TS seem to regard any opposing position as bias, claim that they're being silenced, and/or argue the people with a different position are victimising them. And then when they get told TS isn't viewed as a safe space, some of them have a little discussion about how they can't see why that might be, throw in a bit of patronising rephrasing that they think should solve whatever problem there is even though they can't see it, then a couple decide that the complaint was just a weapon used to victimise them.
I just want the bill voted on. Even if it fails this time around (or has some "civil union"-style compromise), sooner or later it'll pass.
At least give us a link to a contribution of yours when you could be "fucked" to talk with integrity on this topic, then I'll give credit to your "any more".
Taking a deep breath, because although we can play this point scoring game all day, it is pointless.
I support the ability of transgender people to have a streamlined process that enables them to get official government documentation that records their declared gender identity. However, I think there are issues with how they are proposing to do so.
In particular, the ability to self-id without the requirement for the presence of support services. I think this is a negative for the transcommunity long-term. Also, there seems to be little proposed in the way of safeguarding the process from those who are not in the transgender community, but who may use it with ill intent.
Can you really not entertain the thought that there may be negative impacts from this proposed method?
Except in countries where similar legislation has been passed, what you consider only "theoretically possible impacts" have occurred in real life, thereby rendering them "probable impacts".
I have not found a submission against the Bill, that state that they do not believe transgender people should not have access to documentation that records their preferred identity (although, I am sure there are some). I have randomly looked at about 40, and couldn't find one that stated that objection. The submissions were about the failure to safeguard both the transgender community and those in the wider community from the misuse of process and/or the failure to provide guidance or reassurance on possible negative impacts on the safeguards put in place for the biological sex class of women.
Make no mistake. I believe the MP's who are promoting this Bill have done an appalling job of predicting, and providing suitable responses to these concerns. Their failure to do so in part is responsible for an inability to publicly discuss this topic with genuine intent to resolve it to the benefit of all.
The differing understandings of the words sex, gender, gender identity, women, men, male, female etc makes the whole topic a minefield of misunderstandings and bad assumptions. People are often not even using the same language. How do we overcome that primary obstacle?
I fully support finding a streamlined method of providing transgender people with official government documentation.
I believe a truly progressive government would provide that by ensuring that any transgender person would have immediate access to counselling/medical/support services that facilitate that option.
By doing that instead of removing that safeguard, we ensure that those in the transgender community (which has a high percentage of mental health issues) at least has one guaranteed point of contact with such services. (Similar to the requirement of pregnant women to have a midwife).
This means that support services need to be invested in and grown. Removing the safeguard process, gives successive governments (think National and ACT) the option of reducing these services without regard.
That's one consideration that may be interesting to discuss with you, if you think you have the solution. The other issue with self-id is the ability of those not in the transgender community to misuse the process with the intent to commit harm. I would genuinely be interested in how you think that can be avoided.
Bluntly, the fact that after years of implementation overseas the only negative impacts people point to seem to be individual cases (that are often highly debatable or talk radio reckons) rather than rates suggests to me the negatives of this largely administrative bill are still more theoretical than probable.
McFlock, unfortunately we are repeating the pattern where we are talking past each other. Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect, and can easily be rebutted with a few internet searches. But you have stated more than once your refusal to follow provided links, so there is no point in doing so.
If you get to a place where you think we can actually converse with a genuine intent to solve this discussion issue, then we can give it another go. ie. would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I believe that solution works both for increasing access to services for the transgender community while solving the issue of misuse of process from those without. Perhaps you can propose a better one.
(Just as an aside, do you believe me and others when I make affirmations regarding support for the transgender community or do you consider them false?)
Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect,
This is the other issue. That's not actually what I wrote, nor certainly intended to imply. There was one discussion at TS (about a trans woman in a US prison ISTR) that did in fact resolve to being some talkback wonk, but I did not say that all cases were restricted to talkback radio. But you jumped on that interpretation as evidence that I'm arguing in bad faith.
Similarly with my refusal to look at some links – particularly when I've already spent half a damned day looking for and reading a judgement that was mentioned (and misinterpreted) in a tweet linked by a commenter.
That's not my bad faith, that's me having limited time and inclination to check the content that the original commenter should have checked before linking.
I apologise for paraphrasing incorrectly, but that is how it came across to me, even on the re-read. There have been numerous incidents related on TS, and again, easily found on the internet, about the harms on both the transgender and wider society by the use of an administration only process for self-id. One incident where you got frustrated is not an excuse for not informing yourself independently. And once again, you are taking issue with how we are talking rather than what we are saying.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Wrestling scores, excerpts from judgements, anecdotes about predators being thrown into womens prison wings, fathers being locked up for "using the wrong pronoun"… cherry picked, out of context, talkback radio, outright misleading (he was done for repeatedly violating suppression orders by giving his kid's specific medical info to the press against the kid's, the kid's mother's, and the court's wishes).
Those aren't the only instances, just the ones off the top of my head.
Then the flipside is how few comments have been made about Tavistock winning their appeal. Quite a few before the appeal came out. This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up – the point of the observation is that people tend to post links to support their position and that's fine if the links are accurate. But in this debate they seem to be largely assessed on surface value, and all too often fail accuracy checks that the commenters should have done.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Just noticed this paragraph. Missed the Q the first time.
Was it this bit
would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
Actually, McFlock, there are submissions from within the transcommunity that object to the self-id provisions in the bill.
It would also be an indication of genuine engagement if you provided more in regards to this discussion than "they said so". I would suggest that the burden of informing your opinion should not rely solely on the testimony of those you have relationships with. The issue is much wider and far-reaching than the personal views of a few people.
This is a societal change, not just a legislative one. It also affects women as a sex class, because it affects sports, awards, services, spaces, quotas, statistics etc that relate to that class.
Others within the transcommunity and those concerned about the impact on the laws and societal mores than affect the biological sex class of women, have brought up those concerns more than once, only to be dismissed as transphobic.
Were you ever supportive of the idea of single-sex spaces? If you understood the need for them before, why has this changed?
Are you supportive of the inclusion of religious women (eg. Muslim), modest women or young women and girls in community facilities? Do you understand that the presence of self-identified male bodied people in those spaces might well result in the exclusion of these biological women from those facilities? How do you, and those who require validation from inclusion in women-only spaces despite male bodies, provide inclusion for those women?
Those examples you have provided are also out of context. The Tavistock ruling, is concerning. You are right. I didn't know it had been overturned, but I do know that I consider that to be a problem rather than a reason to celebrate.
As someone currently on hormone suppression treatment, it is no walk in the park. And I know that my insecurity as a teenager regarding my developing body, and my disconnect with "normal" would have predisposed me to possible solutions that I would have had no ability to provide informed consent for. That may have led to further treatment that rendered me sterile, and unable to function sexually. Do you really think teens have the capability to understand this?
You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology. I see it as what happens when safeguarding and wider considerations are thrown to the wind. We will end up with harm being done to many more than Keira Bell. Don't ask me to celebrate that result.
Again, my opinion is not solely based on the opinions of people I know. It's a combination of that and what the trans community seem to go for. No group agrees completely – there were probably some women who opposed women having the vote, for whatever reason. But the overall direction? That can be seen.
Similarly, "You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology." is actually almost the precise opposite of what I wrote: "This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up".
As for what teens can consent to, many of them are smarter than you give them credit for, and some have very good reasons for not wanting their caregivers invovled in decisions about their reproductive organs. Sure, there should be clear criteria on establishing the capacity for and existence of informed consent. In the UK, that's called the Gillick test. It's a clinical process, not the business of the courts.
Appealing against that doesn't just affect trans patients, it affects every young person needing sexual health services of all kinds but not wanting their parents' involvement in that process.
BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious.
So, no worries about the probable exclusion of some women in women's spaces then. And once again, no answering to the questions regarding your previous support for women only spaces, and why this has changed.
As far as I am aware, the Gillick competence test was created for the prescription of contraception to minors. Fit for purpose, and used to provide medication that on cessation would no longer have an effect. This successful use, has been used to justify the provision of off-label medications, which may have permanent effects, to minors.
I think this is a problem. It is also similar to referring to the harm of gay conversion practices, and conflating that to mean that affirmation only models are the only acceptable approaches when dealing with teenagers and young people.
These are not one-sized fits all solutions. Each situation needs a purpose built solution.
"BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious."
I am actually, because as I mentioned before the language used in these discussions is so fluid and amorphous it is hard to keep track. I perhaps should have used "gender identity ideology" but you can give me the updated appropriate term to refer to. (Given that you have probably an updated definition of the word woman that I don't ascribe to, let's just try to understand what each other is saying rather than get caught up in the semantics.)
jesus christ, did you ever consider the idea that maybe concentrating on one complex topic in a comment and trying really hard to avoid pissing you off might, just might, not be an intentional slight or an indication that I have zero consideration for the other complex topics in this comment thread?
But no, keep seeking out the worst possible inference to make.
That way me removing myself from this thread right now is obviously some example of "no debate" or bad faith rather than exasperation at someone who thinks the lack of "identity" is probably the insulting bit and not the presence of "ideology".
Jesus Christ, McFlock. Instead of being outraged for repeated attempts to engage and requests for you to read comments in their entirety before responding, perhaps you should remove yourself from this thread.
BTW, I don't feel slighted. I feel like someone who continually has to remind you that you are not responding to content. I would only be slighted, if I thought this was done intentionally in an attempt to not engage. I actually think you are unaware that you do it. That's why I ask specific questions, so that the conversation can go back on track.
I remain unlearned in the right phrase to use in regards to gender identity ideology. Do you actually have one to provide? Because statements that regard biological sex as a state of mind is a belief. Hence, ideology.
McFlock I don't think anyone said they don't see how it might be that the Trans community would find this an unsafe space.
I think the trans community are only seeking affirmation. They are entitled to want that. But they may not find that on the Standard. As I said the Standard is a place for robust and rigourous debate.
I can't understand your bit "throw in a bit of patronizing…."
Women are being silenced. What do you think happened when trans activists successfully shut down their meetings.
If you can't be fucked with anymore, no problem. Just scroll down
RBO are you saying it is offensive to refer to women with penises?
We women are being told by some trans activists that women can have penises, men can give birth and lesbians can have penises (so being a lesbian is no longer about being self sex attracted, it is about being gender identity attracted).
Do you understand why some of us don't accept the above statements?
In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions, I will be accused of running away if I don't respond to all your questions. I am happy to wait until Weka returns or a Site Moderator gives an indication that they do or don't agree with my suggestion of a special daily post for you to discuss this topic and anyone else from either side can join you. I trust you can do the same.
"In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions," – but this is a descriptor used by the transgender community itself.
Oh, that's right. Stop asking me questions or giving me information. Be quiet, be quiet.
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
It's fine to ask. I can't see the justification for the amount of work involved for an author/mod (it's a fair amount of work). With the US elections every day there were long, heated debates that tended to take over OM, so dedicated posts took the heat out by not annoying so many people that were sick of it, and it made it easier to moderate.
That's not happening with the BDMRR debates (there are days, sometimes a lot, when there's been no discussion at all).
If you don't like the topic, my suggestion is to scroll on by. I have to do this with various TS topics that go through phases eg vaccines at the moment (although as a mod I actually have to scan them to make sure no-one is being an arse)
I certainly don't wish to cause anyone any more work on this issue. You asked the other night why there wasn't more engagement from the other side of this issue. May I suggest the piling on, from a passionate few, for even asking for a special daily post to discuss it, may answer that question.
For the record I do not, as Anker suggests below, wish to get any "pesky women off Open Mile" I however, can happily take another option of rather having to scroll passed, I can take a self-imposed avoidance of Open Mike until after the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill has been finalized.
I agree that pile ons can be counter productive. In this instance, your request was fine, and your replies after that even handed and point, so thanks for that. I find that if too many people are engaging with stuff I am saying it's useful to pick which I want to reply to and focus on those. Or choose not to engage at all (in this case you asked the mods a question, so there was no obligation to respond to anyone else). This is a really useful skill to develop in robust debate culture. One person's pile on is another person's water off a duck's back. I wouldn't class yesterday as a pile on, the people that replied to you were likewise evenhanded and making coherent points. Everyone was ok in what they did despite the apparently conflict.
I will say that some of the response yesterday was based on how you engaged on the topic the other day. I have two thoughts about this. One is that there's no obligation here to respond to anyone other than moderators. However, it does tend to piss people off if someone says something controversial and then says don't talk to me about that.
I also think that where you have been saying you find some of the language about trans people offensive, you probably need to explain what you mean if you are going to stay in the conversations eg women with penises is a common concept in trans circles online, I don't know what is offensive about it because you haven't explained. I would also say that being specific rather than general improves debate eg link to where someone has said 'women with penises' and then we can see what you actually mean (especially the mods).
Thanks, I acknowledge I have read this. I wont rehash the offensive comments but even you have, in conversations, acknowledged them on occasions so I didn't see the need to go over them again, as I thoroughly explained why I felt them offensive at the time. I bow to your judgment and will take time off from Open Mike so that I don't get caught up again trying to defend against the hurt that words can cause on a maligned community. Regards, RBO
The selfish, entitled arse certainly owes an apology to his family, Maniapoto iwi, search and rescue folk and members of the local community who gave a substantial amount their time and resources to look for him and his kids.
Yes, wonderful news. I'm sure most of us assumed they were dead, and the news headlines had certainly moved on. Whatever the personal circumstances, an outcome to celebrate.
Key would have never openly displayed going to his chosen friendly journalists every presser and feeding them questions.
(to be fair that is probably bollocks sorry. He would have feed questions he needed. They all do, but I am just saying he wouldn't have been so blatant about it)
All good though.
At least now we know what the announcement will be next week.
[Yes, it is bollocks, but you said it anyway. So, you can now provide support for all your assertions in your comment, including that they all (!) feed questions to the friendly (!) journalists [at] every (!) presser. Failing to do so will cost you a month.
Or you can withdraw your trolling bollocks, apologise, and take a week off for wasting my time, unless your apology comes across as genuine, this time, given that you say sorry a lot, but it is obviously rather meaningless coming from you – Incognito]
I just said I was wrong about Key not doing the same thing.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it. But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked, so well done people, in the grand scheme of things, you have rocked in level 3.
[Hmm, I’d already put you in the Black List for a week, but then dinner called. I see that you slightly edited your comment. So, I’ve slightly edited my note for you that I’d written before dinner.
Good to know that you know that Key is/was not doing the same thing. I’m so relieved that you clarified just that one part of your comment.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it.
It is not about what I want; I gave you an opportunity to correct and redeem yourself with a genuine apology. You did not really grasp that opportunity with both hands.
I cannnot forget anything you say here, unless I delete it and then it still shows up in the Trash folder and I have to delete it there too. What is said, is said and stays said.
You cannot have it both ways; mean what you say, say what you mean. If you have nothing to say then don’t say anything.
You are a disingenuous time-wasting commenter, but I’ll give you one more chance – Incognito]
But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked,
God, I hope you're right cos my fringe is a hanging over me eyes and I can't see proper. Far more important than anything else. 😉
Edit: I watched chris T and I'm certain you got it wrong, but can understand why you thought it. JA has a policy of kicking off question time with the two TV political editors Jessica Mutch-McKay and Tova O'Brien on alternate days. It was Tova's turn today.
Although, having said that, I am very concerned we are going to look like this in early November.
Victoria has recorded 1438 new locally acquired Covid-19 infections, another daily record, as health authorities warn the state has not yet reached the peak of the outbreak.
Whatever you think of the PM's answers, to suggest that it's a "rehearsed patsy question" is a solid 9 out of 10 on the conspiracy theory scale (10 involves lizards and aliens).
I think it's possible to debate the issue without bringing in individual trans people and using them as political fodders. Especially in this case because SBE has had a lot of stupid, mean and transphobic arguments directed at them and about them in public.
I'm also concerned that you can't see the problem of asking what you did in response to Sabine's comment. It's none of our business whether any individual NB/trans person has a cervix or not, and it's completely unnecessary for us to know or debate about that person. It's also irrelevant to the issues Sabine pointed to.
Your new e-mail address has now been approved and your comments will now appear freely without being caught by Auto-Moderation unless something else triggers it.
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Buzz from the Beehive A significant decline in natural gas production has given Resources Minister Shane Jones an opportunity to reiterate his enthusiasm for the mining and burning of coal. For good measure, he has praised an announcement from Genesis Energy that it will resume importing coal. He and Energy ...
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Rob MacCullough writes – Here is my subjective ranking on a “most-left” to “most-right” scale of most of our major NZ Universities, with some anecdotal (and at times amusing) evidence to back up the claim.Extreme Left Auckland University of TechnologyEvidenceThe ...
Eric Crampton writes – I hadn’t thought about this one until a helpful email showed up in my inbox.It’s pretty obvious that income tax thresholds should automatically index with inflation – whether to anchor the thresholds in percentiles of the income distribution, or to anchor against a real ...
Jacqui Van Der Kaay writes – Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National ...
Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Placards and mourners outside the Kilbirnie Mosque following the Christchurch terror attack: MSD has terminated the Kaiwhakaoranga service, which has been used by 415 families since the attacks. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government’s pledge to only cut ‘back office’ staff rather than ‘frontline’ services is on increasingly shaky ground, with ...
There’s been a few smaller public transport announcements over the last week or so that I thought I’d cover in a single post. Fareshare I’ve long called for Auckland Transport to offer a way to enable employer-subsidised public transport options. The need for this took on even more importance ...
Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National Minister Matt Doocey, reflects poorly on Genter and ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Today New Zealand First will introduce a Member’s Bill that will protect women’s spaces. The ‘Fair Access to Bathrooms Bill’ will require, primarily in the interest and safety of women and girls, that all new non-domestic publicly accessible buildings provide separate, clearly demarcated, unisex and single sex bathrooms. This Bill ...
The Green Party is welcoming Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ continuation of Hon. James Shaw’s cross-party work on climate adaptation, now in the form of a Finance and Expenditure Committee Inquiry. ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Introduction Good morning. It’s a great privilege to be here at the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium. I was extremely happy when the Prime Minister asked me to be his Minister for Infrastructure. It is one of the great barriers holding the New Zealand economy back from achieving its potential. Building high ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...
New Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
By Kaneta Naimatu in Suva Journalists in the Pacific region play an important role as the “eyes and ears on the ground” when it comes to reporting the climate crisis, says the European Union’s Pacific Ambassador Barbara Plinkert. Speaking at The University of the South Pacific (USP) on World Press ...
Aldora Itunu is back in the Black Ferns squad after a three-year absence. The last of her 24 internationals was an underwhelming loss to France (7-29) in Castres to conclude the disastrous 2021 Northern Tour. The powerhouse prop won a Rugby World Cup in 2017 and thought she was done. ...
The fight to control major transport policy and projects in Auckland has burst into the open again, with councillors rejecting Mayor Wayne Brown’s latest attempt to steer things more under his influence. Councillors from the left and right broke ranks on the mayor’s bid to control Auckland Transport more directly ...
Exhausted by the general election campaign, horrified by the twilight zone of coalition negotiations, distracted by the silly season and waiting for the honeymoon to begin, Raw Politics has been in hibernation since October. From today, we’re back. Our weekly political video show and podcast returns for ...
By Patrick Decloitre, RNZ Pacific correspondent French Pacific desk Authorities in the small town of Boulouparis have commemorated Armistice Day on May 8 with a new memorial honouring New Zealand soldiers who were stationed in New Caledonia during World War II. The ceremony took place in the township on the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sara Dehm, Senior lecturer, international migration and refugee law, University of Technology Sydney The High Court unanimously ruled today that the Australian government can keep asylum seekers in immigration detention indefinitely in cases where they do not “voluntarily” cooperate with their own ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Munro, Lecturer, Creative Industries and Digital Media, University of South Australia Twenty-four hours after the release of Macklemore’s pro-Palestine protest song Hind’s Hall on social media on May 7, the video had already notched up over 24 million views. In ...
Failing to anticipate the complexity of the consenting system is being cited as the the current builder's shortcomings, an Infrastructure Commission review says. ...
350 Aotearoa is calling the Environment Select Committee’s decision to allow oral submissions from just 40% of individual, unique submitters who asked to speak to the committee ‘a disgraceful blight to democracy’. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Helal, Assistant Dean (Sustainability), The University of Melbourne Dubai skylineAleksandarPasaric/Pexels Since ancient times, people have built structures that reach for the skies – from the steep spires of medieval towers to the grand domes of ancient cathedrals and mosques. Today ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Edward Musole, PhD Law Student, University of New England Girts Ragelis/ShutterstockRecent trends show Australians are increasingly buying wearables such as smartwatches and fitness trackers. These electronics track our body movements or vital signs to provide data throughout the day, with ...
Papua New Guinea experienced a significant earthquake on 24 March in East Sepik and there has also been recent flooding there and in surrounding provinces. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yousuf Mohammed, Dermatology researcher, The University of Queensland Maridav/Shutterstock You wake up, stagger to the bathroom and gaze into the mirror. No, you’re not imagining it. You’ve developed face wrinkles overnight. They’re sleep wrinkles. Sleep wrinkles are temporary. But as your ...
The Environment Select Committee has just announced that 60 percent of individuals who asked to speak at the hearings will not be heard. This equates to almost 700 people who made individual submissions and more than 1000 more who made a form submission. ...
The Royal New Zealand Ballet is performing Swan Lake around the country. What kind of dream does the ballet sell?Before going to see the Royal New Zealand Ballet perform Swan Lake, I had about as much familiarity with the plot of this ballet as could be expected from having ...
A new poem by Auckland poet Eamonn Tee. High Tide at Local Maxima It is only going to get worse. The streams will be narrow and fickle. The week will bend and buckle like a pot-bellied waist. You will make it to the weekend with one ...
The New Zealand entrepreneur behind beauty business Ethique is gearing up to launch a new eco-venture. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Our thirst for a tasty bevvy is insatiable, but it comes with a hefty plastic price for the planet: 580 billion ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 James by Percival Everett (Mantle, $38) A retelling of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn from ...
By Kamna Kumar in Suva Pacific Islands Forum Secretary-General Henry Puna stressed the importance of media freedom and its link to the climate and environmental crisis at the 2024 World Press Freedom Day event organised by the University of the South Pacific’s journalism programme. Under the theme “A Planet for ...
Tara Ward previews a new local TV series offering alternative visions of motherhood. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. A woman is clambering up the side of her two-story house, clinging desperately to a drainpipe. Nearby, her child is perched on the ...
Local Government New Zealand (LGNZ) is supportive of the cross-party approach to climate adaptation announced by the Minister of Climate Change today. ...
The Sustainable Business Council (SBC) and Climate Leaders Coalition (CLC) welcome today’s announcement from Government around a bipartisan inquiry into an enduring climate adaptation framework for New Zealand. ...
The Free Speech Union welcomes the decision by the Department of Internal Affairs, and Minister Brooke Van Velden, to abandon proposals to further regulate online speech. ...
Its new building in Wellington will not be nearly big enough for all its records, and it has also run out of money to build its new storage facility in Levin. ...
BusinessNZ is congratulating the Minister of Climate Change for his work in achieving cross-party consensus for a way forward on climate adaptation. ...
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.
Such delightful birds, and so curious, even when they realise you’re not the tiwaka wahine they were expecting.
https://i.imgur.com/LF6VU25.gif
Tīwaiwaka wahine would be female fantail; Gezza, but ka te pai for making the effort. Less poetically, it was probably after the insects that were stirred up by your presence – which is why they seem to be such a friendly bird to humans.
It’s got quite a few Māori names, Forget now.
“tīwakawaka
1. (noun) fantail – a small, friendly, insect-eating bird of the bush and domestic gardens which has a distinctive tail resembling a spread fan.
Nā, kia mōhio tātou, ko ngā tīwaiwaka e tītakataka nei ka hura rā hoki ngā hukumaro ki runga, ka riro ko te upoko ki raro (TTT 1/10/1929:1086). / Now, we should know that fantails flit about opening their tail feathers up and with their head going down.
(Te Pihinga Study Guide (Ed. 1): 2; Te Māhuri Textbook (Ed. 2): 182;)”
It’s also known as he pīwakawaka in some other parts of te motu.
A wahine toa Māori friend of mine in her 60s up in Northland always shortens the name to tīwaka when she writes about hers up there – which is why I did. (Thanks for the reminder about the macron being needed on the ī, btw.)
PS: No, it's not after insects stirred up by me. I saw it flitting about in the trees across the stream. I'm just standing by my fence, not moving. I called it over. I know how to mimic a tīwakawaka call.
That is impressive; Gezza, my own whistling has a half octave range, and even then; there is a rather wet slurring to the pitch (probably learning brass at school messed up my embouchure habits for whistling, and other flutes). Āe, ngā reo ā-iwi certainly do make the language interesting – if it was intentional and had precedent then you're not wrong,
Kia ora for that, e hoa.
My tīwaka call is a variation on a “kissy” sound. I suck air thru my teeth. A bit hard to describe further beyond that. I can get it to sound quite loud & it carries across the stream.
Another neat trick a lady friend of mine in Huntly uses is to rub two pieces of polystyrene foam together. I tried it, & it works on my fantails here. 👍🏼
My Māori friend up north lives off grid with her partner in te Hokianga. Her tūrangawaewae is East Coast tho. She spent many years as a possum hunter & trapper. Now she’s becoming quite a tohunga rongoā.
Off to get my second shot of vaccine today; more like 9 weeks after the first than the intended 12, but school holidays start at the end of the week and I want to be over any reactions and side effects before I am being scamped 24/7 again. I had the soreness at injection site for a day or two last time, expecting the wiped-outness this time around, so have got a bunch of DVDs from the library (including the reCGed Sagan Cosmos!) and arranged for a friend to come over to watch them (and over me) the next couple of evenings. I did the same for them a couple of weeks back when they had their 6 week jab. Though that was more snuggling together in front of a winter fire.
Vacci-dating is a very 2021 form of social interaction.
I went through Lawrence of Arabia yesterday with 4 panadol over the day.
Better today.
Ad, I was trying to imagine what your pain and torment was like, having likened it to that of Lawrence of Arabia. Was it like suffering riding a camel cross-legged across a stony desert all day with little water? Still, he got to be a wise man, did TE Lawrence, after the experience, with his "Seven Pillars of Wisdom".
Then I realised you had just got through a bad day by watching the film, not by reliving it. I'm glad you're better. My second jab took my energy so that a usual Sunday morning hill walk climbing 400 metres had me stopping five times on the uphill stretch-usually one stop 'for the view'.
Lawrence taught me that the major religions all came out of the desert as a result of encounters with open, starry night skies. I still seek spiritual solace that way- without the panadol, but sometimes with a wee dram……..
5.30am this morning you could see an inky Manukau Heads from South Titirangi Road with a wee wreath of showers, and stars coming through.
Well done.
😀 True, & wise.
COVID is certainly the disease of the unvaccinated according to healthcare workers. And now thanks to “Roger’n’Ruth’s” toxic neo liberal legacy, it is also the disease of the alienated working class poor.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/452596/covid-19-team-helps-auckland-families-frightened-of-being-tested
It is pretty clear what needs to be done, albeit obviously too late for this current virus outbreak.
–Pay all citizens a basic income via IRD (recovered via taxation from higher earners)
–Fare free public transport and free Wifi nationwide
–Rent control at all times
–Rent freeze and mortgage holiday during any lockdowns
–State house and apartment mega build, emergency housing and homeless tiny house build in all towns and regions
But what is the Govt.’s latest move? relax conditions for migrant workers just as upward pressure on wages was building in a tighter labour market! Yes migrant workers have been treated appallingly for ever and redress is needed, but really employers and the NZ petit bourgeois just get such favoured treatment from this majority Labour Govt. Bring on 2023 and 2026 I say.
good ideas.
Poor old conservative John Key. He doesn't get the respect now that he believes that he deserves.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/jess-berentson-shaw-do-vaccine-incentives-help-hesitant-people?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=c00f98c647-Daily+Briefing+30.09.2021&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-c00f98c647-95522477
Need to get our vax-hesitant gangs to work. Joint for a jab anyone?
Need to get the local kaumatua to pay them a visit, or to ask them to come to the marae to discuss getting jabs?
It's a good scheme – time to break with that strange conservative reflex of Peter Dunne's that has NZ trailing liberalization even of countries as backward as the US.
Better for everyone that gangs are mellow – and vaccinated.
Apropos the notion in National's pandemic response of purpose-built quarantine facilities near Auckland airport to open in early 2022. On CNN today:
China has built a 5,000-room quarantine centre for overseas arrivals.
– A (NZ) $378 million, 5,000-room quarantine facility for incoming travellers opening in Guangzhou.
– Size of 46 football fields, took less than three months to be built from scratch on outskirts of the city.
– Travellers transferred directly from the airport on buses, confined to their rooms for at least two weeks. Three meals a day delivered by robots — minimized direct contact with staff.
– More than 4,000 workers assigned to the construction site. The facility completed earlier this month and a first batch of 184 medical staff moved in last week
– Designed as bubble isolated from rest of city – travellers, AND workers placed under effective lockdown.
– Medical staff work 28 days at the facility, go through week of quarantine themselves, and another two weeks of home quarantine before allowed to go outside.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/29/china/guangzhou-covid-quarantine-center-mic-intl-hnk/index.html
That can happen in a dictatorship with unlimited resources.
NZ has a massive shortage of construction workers Shortages of building materials many imported from China supply constrictions ,lack of ships operating due to covid.
I have observed the calls to have unlimited resources, instant, dictatorship type action.
Do you think it's funny when such calls come from those who freak out and scream "Dictatorship!" when there are rules about wearing facemarks on public transport and suggestions about wearing them in public?
Don't you think it's funny when people anti a particular government demand unlimited resources, instant action then if anything is done at haste to meet the perceived needs of a situation, wail "What about consultation?!"
whoa… back up!
ROBOT WAITERS!!!
In a pandemic iso unit.
I used to bitch that we didn't have a moonbase like they said we'd have when I was a kid. Now we're getting all the sci fi at once.
New Covid-19 poster child, Ireland, has 40,000 active cases and recorded 40 deaths yesterday. Bloomberg says Ireland is the best place to be right now.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Yeah saw that yesterday 🙄
It's all about "freedom" and money.
Not to mention Bloomberg's biggest audiences are probably in the plaguelands, so Ireland's rates look pretty good by comparison..
National wants purpose built quarantine centre by early 2022. Have they been asked just how that would be done? Land to be acquired, council consents to be applied for, architects and designers selected to draw up plans, contractors and sub-contractors to be tendered for, building materials to be ordered and trades people to be hired all in the next 5-6 months for completion in early 2022. One of the nuttiest ideas ever.
Government has already been working on this for some time and National knows this. National pretends to come up with new innovative plans whilst painting the Government as a shambolic useless lot and then claiming the credit when it is actually happening AKA I told you so. Cheap lazy political point-scoring and grandstanding and not fit for Government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018814429/covid-19-many-options-on-the-table-for-purpose-built-miq-chris-hipkins
Not so hard really – especially over summer.
Shigeru Ban: Emergency shelters made from paper | TED Talk
there appears to be an almost without exception complete media black out on the Select Committee Hearing on the BMDRR Bill
So hears my update.
Select committee members are showing very overtly they are biased in favour of the bill when submitters are against the bill.
Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this biasis.
One MP , Dr Elizabeth Kerekere, posted a screenshot from the zoom call, with a submitter who opposes the bill accusing them of hate speech. This is likely defamation, but also completely undermines the Select Committee process as it amounts to intimidation. ie if you present an opposing view to the views the select committee clearly holds, you risk being put on FB and acccused of hate speech
With counting almost complete the numbers against the bill outweigh the numbers for the bill by 75 to 25%
There have been a number of Maori wahine presenting against the bill
Pasifica have also presented against the beill
Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle are part of an group of prominant older feminists who are presenting against the Bill and calling for a Royal Commission of Enquiry into sex and gender.
Stuff, Herald, TVNZ Radio NZ Newshub………..your welcome
I have been really shocked by the contempt shown towards some submitters by members of the select committee. Shamefully, for me as a Labour Party member, the worst behaviour is coming from Labour MPs. I have seen eye rolling, scrolling through phones, frankly hostile and confrontational conduct. Deborah Russell has finished a day of intemperate conduct on the select committee and gone home to tweet that she wants to shout "oh do F*ck off" to submitters.
Along with Kerekere's facebook abuse of one group submitting, and Rachel Boyack's barely concealed contempt, sitting pointedly scrolling through her phone during one group's submission, the whole process has been an appalling display of arrogance.
Committee members do not have to share the beliefs of submitters, but should have sufficient EQ to be able to listen respectfully and politely clarify points as required.
The conduct of the committee has been an absolute fiasco. Only Ian McKelvie and Nicola Griggs have shown any ability to conduct themselves appropriately. (It galls me to say this as I pathologically hate the Nats).
What on earth are the party chief whips doing, allowing this to happen? Do these MPs not know what their roles and responsibilities are? Do they not get some training on parliamentary processes and appropriate behaviour? Mallard has already said on Twitter that he has no role in sanctioning misbehaving MPs on select committees.
The whole thing has been a shameful episode for democartic processes. Labour should thank their lucky stars that the opposition are in such disarray.
Well said. Deborah Russel's attitude towards the SUFW spokesperson was disgusting.
"Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this bias"
I think you are assuming they are judges hearing evidence in court.
Rules of the House regarding Select Committes and bias is only one section and doesnt seem to cover the situation you think it does
236 Disqualification for apparent bias
A member who has (whether in the House or outside the House) made an allegation of crime or expressed a concluded view on any conduct or activity of a criminal nature, identifying by name or otherwise a person as being responsible for or associated with that crime, conduct, or activity (referred to as apparent bias), may not participate—
The Births deaths , marriages and relationships Bill is really about being able to change gender.
For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision
Regardless of one's views about the bill, members of the public should be able to submit to the select committee without fear of intimidation from MPs. If you support democratic processes, it is really important that the integrity of the select committee process is preserved. If this becomes the new standard of conduct for discussing differing views we are heading to a very dark place.
Eye rolls are intimidation ? Are you expecting patsy questions as well .
BTW which submission are you in support so we can look it up online and judge for our selves.
No eye rolls arent intimidation, but i imagine it could be intimidating to some presenters.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech. Lets call it what it is intimidation
So if I am presenting the next day and am in disagreement with this bill, it would be realistic for me to fear the same thing happening.
The hate speech thing is a smear. Its intimidation and inappropriate for a MP to do this, probably breaks the harmful digital communication lawas and is in fact libleless.
FFS I thought you guys were all about the "safe spaces". Seems like that doesn't apply to women who disagree with you.
And where are the men on the Standard? Heads buried in ideology.
Can you please link, and be specific. I looked the other day and the FB post I saw didn't quite match your description. One of the reasons we ask for links a lot here is so that people can see what is being referred to and in context. It makes discussion much better when we are all working off the same page.
Ghostwalker, try reading John Minto submission which is againgst SOP59
or the Correction Officers who has a trans kid, but is against the bill cause he has seen a number of pregnancies in women's prison due to transgender women being there.
Fowls with older prominant feminists is fantastic (Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle, a former Green MP). They are against gender id and are calling for a royal commission into sex and gender.
or save Women's Sports oral submission with one of the submitters giving evidence of how transgender females are already in women's only spaces and the Bill will only accerelate and legitimize this. She gives a case of a gym where a transwomen sat and watched as women and girls got changed. So is anyone whose pro this bill alarm bells going off yet. The gym claimed they could do nothing which probably could be challenged, but not once this bill comes in.
Their is a Pacific Island GP who is really pissed off about this bill and the Conversion therapy bill, and she claims the lack of consultation with the PI community shows how hollow the apology for the dawn raids are. The is a huge number of Asian people submitting against this bill..
There are Christians of course, Lesbian groups, Maori wahine, women, mothers. There are people who wrote things like “Just don’t”. and is the Government completely mad.
What did Minto say?
I know you may be making a point about links, but John Minto's submission can be found by clicking the pdf on this page.
(I think Anker may be watching the submissions online, so doesn't have the links)
No, I was curious what Minto said, thanks.
btw, for clarity, the difference between the two comments is that the second one is someone reporting what they saw in the video. The first is saying that a sitting MP made a defamatory statement. The latter needs to be linked. The former, it would be good if people got in the habit of putting up links, but it's not particularly contentious.
(I don't think what Kerekere did is defamatory, because I think defamation needs to be a) a specific allegation or statement, 2) made against a specific person/s. EK's behaviour is appalling though)
Thanks weka. I did make that assumption when posting the link, but thought I'd better check given we are at the sharp end of the day.
I was disillusioned with the integrity of the select committee process when I attended one of the last minute ones held in Auckland for the TPPA. Both David Shearer and David Parker remain in my memory as equivalent to the eye-rolling and disdainful behaviour Anker relates in this instance.
It strikes me as farcical to refer to consultation conducted in such a way as democratic. I criticised such behaviour when it was exhibited by a National government. I am critical of the same behaviour and lack of genuine democracy being demonstrated by members of this government.
thanks, that's very helpful, I didn't know if what the Labour/GP women are doing was out of the norm for SCs or not. Very disappointing that it's normal, as well as the disappointment for this particular group of women.
The behaviour of Russell and Kerekere on the select committee is disgusting. They really confirm my opinion never to vote Labour again.
Labour and the Greens.
What i really would like to know is if the Persons of the Green Party realise that in the end they too – like the persons of the Green Party in Germany have just a few days ago realised – that they will lose their jobs and their Persons Roll and their Persons Quota to Transwomen.
Next a transwomen to stand for Persons Co leadership of the Green Party.
But the real reason they are just being rude and obnoxious is that the fix is in, and this is just a wee spectacle to pretend that the democratic process is still functioning in their own parties.
So to finish up, lets discuss what some opposition party has done wrong today.
Karens always have that approach
This is so true.
Karens voting with their feet.
Bad bad Karen.
Maybe they need some re-education by some Transwomen and Men as to the proper function and place of Persons/Peopels/Others/Karens in society.
"bad, bad Karen".
Love it Sabine!
"persons/peoples/others/karens in society"
BTW #82
Ghostwhowalksnz….
I wish to ask that you do not use such misogynist language towards women posters here. You are free to disagree, but sexist name calling is not appropriate on a left wing blog.
When its avoiding the core issue and complaining about 'process'… its Karens. …or Ill call it what it is privileged older white women.
[yes, you can name privileged, older white women (assuming you are being accurate). Because when you do that the political argument you are trying to make is clear and people can argue for or against it. If you use the term Karens, which is a perjorative, it derails the debate, by people having to stop and deal with the sexism. It’s tedious af. If you use Karens again like this, I will moderate accordingly. This isn’t FB or twitter. There is an expectation that people will engage here in robust debate not lazy slurs and throw away marginalising dismissals. – weka]
Doubling down, a la Collins, huh?
Given you don't know whether those you are referring to are:
privileged, older or white,
your justification is poor, immature and murky.
The only constant that exists in the use of Karen, is the biological sex of those who have it as a name. Since it is a derogatory term, it is both a lazy, and misogynistic label.
So you arent happy with a label 'that isnt you'.. quelle horreur
Just imagine a whole life with much much more than a label that isnt you, but you can never change.
@Ghostwhowalksnz Good God. Not everything is about transgender. And I have never stated that I do not support their wish to have an official record of their gender identity. I always have supported that wish, and still do. Link to where I have stated otherwise (alternatively, stop making shit up)
Now, despite that misdirection, I believe your commitment to your repeated use of Karen can be seen as delighting in the misogynistic term it really is. But I guess as long as social media condones it, you don't have to take responsibility.
It's not even an accurate use of the Karen slur, so doubly sexist I think. Just any old pejorative against the crones, eh.
mod note for you.
Your point is noted
I always know when someone's arguements aren't that good. They start labelling you, Karen, Terfs.
Karen – Seems to me to be a lazy, misogynistic term that seems to be an acceptable form of "bitch". And yes, I know that when this term goes, another will take its place., but…
… try to be brave, and say what you really think without a socially accepted veneer of sophistication.
You might find yourself unrecognisable.
Sabine, this is what is happening in the Scottish Green Party.
We'll see it here
I'm cancelling my membership and monthly donation after decades of loyalty.
I don't have a party I can vote for any more.
https://andywightman.scot/archives/4634?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=why-i-resigned-from-the-scottish-green-party
The Labour Party Conference in England that just ended yesterday was a doozy in regards to this issue.
Mind, i have left the Labour Party in 2016. Will be voting for a third party, neither N / L nor G are at all a fit for me.
Act or if you qualify Te Maori Parti ? RIGHT… got that.
Ghostwhowalks @8.2
Have you looked at your birth certificate ?It requires sex, not gender.The bill refuses to denote the differences between sex and gender.Pretty poor law making
Ghostwalker this is the bit you omitted about bias.
233 Complaints of apparent bias
(1) A complaint of apparent bias on the part of a member of a select committee may be made by any member (whether or not a member of the committee) or by any person appearing or about to appear before the committee whose reputation may be seriously damaged by proceedings of the committee.
(2) A complaint of apparent bias must be made, in writing, to the chairperson.
(3) The chairperson, after considering any information or comment from the member against whom the complaint is made, decides whether the member is disqualified by reason of apparent bias.
(4) Any member of a committee who is dissatisfied with the chairperson’s decision on a complaint of apparent bias may refer the matter to the Speaker for decision. The Speaker’s decision is final.
When I rechecked Rule 233 it says Witness Expenses ?
Complaints of Apparent bias section is my quote:
Rule 237 Complaints of apparent bias
Standing Orders By Chapter Select Committes 23 Oct 2020
You may be referring to an older version, however that version doesn’t dis allow MPs showing bias towards submitters.
Im sure single issue zealots mostly get that response
It is not about people changing gender – it is about people creating a biological fiction – that they have changed SEX – and cementing that as a legal fiction. There is a process to do that now – which has the appropriate safeguards against abuse. The proposal in the SOP enables anyone to make that change by was of a Statutory Declaration with very few safeguards.
Let's have a higher standard for ourselves and our MPs that what you have proposed as acceptable. The select committee process is supposedly a part of a democratic process, not performance art. (Mind you, after attending some of the TPPA submissions this assumption was fairly quickly dispatched for me.)
There is a high degree of arrogance to misuse such processes while calling them democratic.
I believe that arrogance has also interfered with the public discussion on the bill, which leads to you making such statements as:
"For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision"
Many of the submissions I have read have not been about this at all.
It has been about the failure of the bill, and the MP's promoting it, to outline how the practical application of this bill in real life may impact on issues not related to birth certificates or transgender people.
Their (I suspect deliberate) conflation of biological sex, gender and gender identity in public statements or meetings has made any discussion fraught with misunderstandings and confusion. I hold those MP's partly responsible for the oppositional nature of public discussions. They are definitely responsible for not doing more to bring clarity into the public sphere.
If you cannot see that there has been a failure to address the possible impact on removing the safeguarding and gatekeeping process and replacing it with a statutory declaration, then you haven't gone past the basics of this issue.
The current process is not there purely as a remnant of prejudice, it was a safeguard put in place to ensure that those who wanted to make such a change had contacted the necessary services and experienced what this may mean.
Regardless, of how impatient or desperate some are to make immediate change, this safeguarding process should not be completely removed. For the well-being of those making the change. Yet, no support services or counselling or medical advice requirement is included in this self-id process. That's arguably going to be a negative as time goes on, as those who required help for other issues, sought gender change as a solution when it was perhaps not appropriate. Given the impact on mental health for many making the transition, this removal takes away the pressure on successive governments to provide necessary services. A better solution would be to demand investment in the provisions of specialist services, and for universal access to streamline the process rather than do away with it altogether. What seems like an ideal proposal may turn out to be a negative.
The other issue is, that the self-id process as proposed, will be available to all members of the public. Not just those within the transgender community.
There has been no clarity from the MP's on how they will stop those people with malicious intent from using this process to remove their personal (possible criminal) histories from public view, easily change names and do so with an intent to commit crimes, harm and fraud. If this process is misused in such a way, this is also not good for the transgender community.
And that's without getting into the impact of these changes on the biological sex class of women.
It is a well-intentioned but poorly thought out piece of legislation, presented badly by the MP's promoting it.
Yes. As overseas its actually the amateur implications of this change which have the striking impact. Many things (such as removing single sex/female) categories will be removed justified by the overarching law change. This will happen even though there is no legal requirement to change and the justification claimed will be that the law has changed requiring this.
The supplementary order to the bill was presented as non controversial, having very little effect on the general population , and "bringing us into line with overseas countries"
I'm concerned that it gives legal recognition to a vastly changed concept of what the words female and woman means.This without wide consensus or consultation with the 50% of the population who this affects.
It seems there's been a total flip, now biological sex is a cultural concept (easily discarded with hormones and medical corrections) and gender is the new destiny, originating in the womb as an innate felt reality, trumping sex.
In the process of ratifying the new orthodoxy , and in the name of inclusivity , natal women are neutered, their breasts not to be mentioned in connection with milk, the femaleness of their periods reduced to desexed menstruating bodies.
We can't say pregnant women it seems , for risk of upsetting those who deny their material sex in favour of a preferred gender Ashley Bloomfield could have said pregnant men and women but perhaps he opted for brevity.
I'm very wary of changes in language to fit a new orthodoxy, pushed in large part by academia in the social sciences .
If you remove the sex class then you no longer have 'discrimination on the basis of sex'.
One day some Persons with prostates will realise that they too lost their sex status, but by then it will be too late.
What i want to know is, if sex is removed, say a Cop were to arrest you, can you be cavity searched by a Transwomen? Must a female cop cavity search a transwomen in a prison? Can transmen be drafted? Can in the future persons with intact reproductive facilities be compelled to breed children for those that have been neutered in the name of trans? Will be a surrogate incubator be a career choice for persons who no longer find employment? Same for the production of human milk, can a person be compelled by Winz to be a wet nurse? If a child is born to a person and a transwomen (who is the ejaculator in this case) will the state be the parent, as persons in prison can not consent to sex? And so on and so forth.
Already in a woman's rape crisis refuge in Scotland, a distraught woman victim asked to have a true female deal with her and administer the rape kit.Instead she was chided and told if she would not accept a transwoman (who knows what stage of transition)she would just have to stomach it and get over her bigotry.
The cruelty of re traumatising a victim of rape.
Persons/People/Others/Karens need to do again what was done in the past.
But then, just like with discrimination of sex, if you make it so bad that Karens don't go to the police or a rape crisis centre or a hosptial to
a. report the crime
b. and allow for evidence of the crime to be collected from their battered bodies
then you have no crime.
Win win.
Labour / Green solved the violence against People/Persons/Others/Karens.
Woot Woot! Victory! Sweet Sweet Victory!!
Gender Identity is the new Immortal Soul. Anybody who supports the separation of Church and State should be concerned by this new ideology which seeks to use the levers of the State to privilege it above other belief systems. There is no more physiological evidence for the possession of a gender identity than there is for the possession of an immortal soul. And we all know what happened last time the populace was required to accept the beliefs of its rulers.
From England.
https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442822907399397380/photo/1
UK Labour now openly identifying as unelectable is basically healthy. Under Corbyn they were still making it a secret that they didn't want to be elected.
A wee funny from the german elections.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-trans-women-elected-german-parliament-tessa-ganserer-nyke-slawik-greens-party-20210928-xta4cbxaxjbenaqn245bvrglha-story.html
Never mind, them persons/people/others will get used to their new status of person/people/other. And frankly we should abolish 'persons' rolls, or 'quota persons' they are as defunct as much as same ‘sex’ spaces.
I had a laugh with the submitter who said 'just because you have two wooden legs doesn't make you a table'.
Paul Litterick's submission on the SOP to the BDMRR Bill is wonderful. https://fundypost.blogspot.com/
Can't find that submission on the link Visubversa
Link here,
OMG!Molly that is chilling
Paul Litter??? Phd. do we know more about him
No, I just followed the link that visubversa supplied and found the submission he had made.
From what I can see he is a blogger, architect and contributor to some online media sources.
The reference he makes to the redacted and poor RIS (Regulatory Impact Statement) was mentioned by a commentator a while ago. I did have a look at the time, but am not familiar with the regular form or nature of it, so couldn't comment on its comparison to others.
If you have a penis you most certainly are not a table.
lol Gabby. Indeed.
Debbie Hayton's submission to the UK government on their similar legislation can be found here. (pdf).
Articles she has written as a self-described transgender campaigner can be found here.
Thanks for the link. The way she writes about her acceptance of herself after many years as a trans woman chimes in with what I've taken from discussions with a person in my wider family circle who transitioned more than 20 years ago, and these discussions (and my experiences as a biological woman) are where my thoughts about this legislation fit.
This is well worth a read.
Here is further proof that mandatory vaccinations and "tackling misinformation" works:
Port workers' 95% vaccination rate attributed to tackling misinformation
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
So why is the government not considering making it mandatory for other risk based industries such as construction workers/road workers as well as work places where interaction with the public is high?
Or maybe it just has to do with the fact that we now have vaccines in the country and thus people that were stuck in Group 3 and 4 can actually get vaccinations?
Was it really tackling misinformation, or was it just maybe something else had more to do with it?
from the link:
Sorry, I forgot to put quote marks around the main paragraph:
That was the conclusion based on their responses – hesitancy due to misinformation. But they soon changed their minds when it became mandatory.
No-one is suggesting it should be across the board, but obviously making it mandatory for all high risk areas is a no-brainer.
Is this just me feeling a rant is coming on. Michael Venus is "thinking about" sueing the Gov because he cannot secure an MIQ spot. Firstly he is a professional sportsman and should be expecting problems flying in and out of the country and just grow a spine and get on with it. he is now going on to San Diego presumably to another fixture.
Secondly his wife and two young children are joining him there plus his mother. His mother is joining them and has quit her job as an emergency department nurse, a sorely needed job which will be missed and training will take up valuable time to replace her. Reason being for her to be going is that she will be a stay at home mum as Venus's wife will be working over there.
Now bugger me, Venus surely has sufficient PA earnings that he could afford a nanny for his kids and secondly why should it be an expectation that his mother will have to take over his wife's role. His mum may be more than happy to do this but the sense of entitlement Venus has, for thinking of sueing the Government and the cheek of even asking his mum to look after his kids.
Sorry but I am over entitled prats and their whinging and whining. Grow a spine Venus and get a life.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/tennis-kiwi-olympic-bronze-medallist-michael-venus-considering-legal-action-against-government-over-miq-system/3PPXVGBYVLSJFJIDG2D32L3CKQ/
Venus and sufficient earnings? By my reckoning from winnings he has averaged NZ$320,000 a year since 2009.
https://www.atptour.com/en/players/michael-venus/v576/overview
Dear Moderators,
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
Apart from your dislike of persons discussing the issue, could you explain how you compare a current political action i.e. the discussion of bill that has wide ramifications in this country to the US election?
And this is the open Mike? So why not discuss it here, other then that some persons may not disagree with what some other persons have to say?
I have no dislike of any person having discussions on this issue although sometimes take offence at some of the language used. The comparison with the US election, as I stated, was based on the level of clogging up Open Mike. I am not trying to stifle your conversation but suggesting people from either side could CHOOSE to go to a dedicated post to voice their opinions on this topic.
How can an issue that will affect 50% of this countries population be 'clogging' up the open mike?
As you say being such a critical situation affecting 50% of this countries population, I would have thought you would welcome the suggestion to have a daily post dedicated to the discussion until the Bill is finalised.
i agree with you,
but sadly Weka is not around, and no one of the others started a post. So we are stuck on the Open mike until Weka comes. Patience.
I'd like discussion to stay on Open Mike. The media have blacked out this issue of the BMDRR. So I kind of see it as my civic duty to get some information out to others.
Thank you for your feedback and I hope a satisfactory outcome appears for everyone.
I'm sure it has been done before. That is… a rolling post for a specific subject which is ongoing and controversial, thus freeing up OP for more general subject matter.
Thanks Anne, that's all I was suggesting.
Ok Red blooded One.
I am not sure what the language is you are referring to. I think you called me on transgender ideology. I hopefully clarrified to you that it is the ideology and how it is being imposed that I have a big problem with.
As I said to Ad yesterday I have been commenting on TS since 2013. I have never been warned, banned or had a threat of a ban in all that time.
I think I am pretty reasonable with my comments. I have had a lot of stuff chucked at me, but only when I am commenting on this issue. I have been accused of coming across as unhinged, I have been told I am stupid, I have been told I side with the idiot right wingers and I had it implied I made some sort of lewd suggestion about someone taking their daughter into a change room.
I post on this site, because there is a media black out about this bill. What I reported today was pretty factual about the. a Select Committee. Many regular commentators were keen to engage about this topic.
I suppose I am hoping at some stage some of the people on this site who aren't supportive of those of us who are gender critical may actually be able to acknowledge that there is a problem for women and girls with gender ideology and the attempt to legislate for self identification. Already male bodied people are turning up in women's spaces, eg. a transwoman in a change room watching women and teen girls change. I will never stop trying to bring this to peoples attention, because it is not o.k.
A few reports escaped this "media black out", despite everything that's going on.
Fortunately 'the media' is (also) more diverse than it was a few decades ago.
Had a look at your links. The first three are really a whole lot of reckons, and no discussion at all.
The next three are similar to press releases. There is also a conflation of the terms sex and gender throughout. Not helpful.
Attempted public discussions around the issue, well – I'm sure you can find some cancelled ones.
Just as I’m sure you can find some that weren’t cancelled.
Molly, one of Anker's assertions @12.1.1.3 was that "there is a media black out about this bill."
As "this bill" has been referred to in a few media reports (not a lot, I would agree), it seems inflammatory to mischaracterise the paucity of reporting as a "media black out", and I believe it’s unlikely to foster further dialogue.
Just my opinion – we can agree to disagree – peace.
… and love…
Gotta love 'em
Yes please!
Despite engaging with you non-passionately on this topic a few times, RBO, why are your contributions only different versions of?
Be quiet, be quiet, be quiet, be quiet…
Molly, the only times I have engaged on this topic is when I have taken offence at the language being used directed at the Trans Community. With your "be quiet, be quiet" narrative you are wrong. As I have stated above, today I have asked for a daily post dedicated to the discussions, that is hardly trying to shut you up, but when one does take offence to a "women with penises" remark they are jumped on for highlighting its offence. I personally would rather this matter be handled by the moderators, as I had addressed them, and am happy to leave it up to them, without me making further space on Open Mike.
Two fairly recent conversations with you where you did not discuss, just dismissed:
Open Mike 28/09/2021 which actually included the instruction:
"None of you need bother answering, the question is rhetorical. " and which you walked away from.
Open Mike 26/08/2021 which was more productive, but showed a tendency for you to say what you wanted, which was responded to, but you walked away again instead of addressing what other commentators had said. This pattern of expecting and receiving a response, but not returning the courtesy has been noticeable on this issue.
This pattern is not a discussion, it is a lecture.
I have not lectured any of you, you however!. I have highlighted when offensive remarks (imho) have been made, and no I am not going back to each thread to highlight them again, many of you have been party to the threads so will be well aware of the words used so I will not re-hash them. I will be very happy to have a discussion with Weka, who I addressed the last comment you mentioned to. This comment was addressed to the Moderators and as such we can, as Anker has done, and Sabine has alluded to, wait with patience to see what Weka or other moderators have to say, and/or voice your opinion to them why continuing the topic on Open Mike is a good idea. .
No, RBO. I think you are mistaken in thinking you have made a genuine attempt at discussion and sharing viewpoints. Despite people taking time to engage and respond to each of your comments in regards to content, you have given no indication in your comments that you have considered the content in theirs.
That is not a robust discussion, when all the listening is happening on one side. That is a lecture.
And you have been asked to provide a proof to your assertation that offensive language against the trans community was used, and used in order to offend.
Again, you are complaining about such language being used, and again you provide no link, nothing at all.
As far as i am concerned, moderators/authors on tis page have left various posts to discuss various issues. However not a single on of them has opened a post about this submission/hearing farce that is currently ongoing, other then Weka – and i think AD and MickeySavage who did a post in favour of it. Today however, not one Author did.
But maybe you could let us all know what you would like us to discuss on the open mike? Maybe the 'vaccine mandate', the locking up of people who may refuse to take vaccinations, the rubbishing of peoples stuck overseas or here due to no spaces in MIQ or no flights that would fit MIQ? Maybe you would like to discuss childhood poverty and that of the poor parents? Maybe you would like to discuss the medical services that can't be accessed by many people because AKL is in lockdown and will remain in lockdown for the foreseeable future? Maybe you would like to discuss the rental shortage, the extortionist prices for human habitat?
What would be an appropriate thing to discuss on the opne mike in your view?
I just can't be fucked with it any more.
I should make the effort, but the people dominating the discussion at TS seem to regard any opposing position as bias, claim that they're being silenced, and/or argue the people with a different position are victimising them. And then when they get told TS isn't viewed as a safe space, some of them have a little discussion about how they can't see why that might be, throw in a bit of patronising rephrasing that they think should solve whatever problem there is even though they can't see it, then a couple decide that the complaint was just a weapon used to victimise them.
I just want the bill voted on. Even if it fails this time around (or has some "civil union"-style compromise), sooner or later it'll pass.
I don't think you realise how ironic your comment is.
Funny. I think the same about your comments.
At least give us a link to a contribution of yours when you could be "fucked" to talk with integrity on this topic, then I'll give credit to your "any more".
Yep, that's the stuff.
That's OK. I couldn't find one either.
Taking a deep breath, because although we can play this point scoring game all day, it is pointless.
I support the ability of transgender people to have a streamlined process that enables them to get official government documentation that records their declared gender identity. However, I think there are issues with how they are proposing to do so.
In particular, the ability to self-id without the requirement for the presence of support services. I think this is a negative for the transcommunity long-term. Also, there seems to be little proposed in the way of safeguarding the process from those who are not in the transgender community, but who may use it with ill intent.
Can you really not entertain the thought that there may be negative impacts from this proposed method?
Every policy might have negative impacts, just as there might be positive impacts.
But there's a difference between realistic or even widespread impacts, and the theoretically possible impacts.
Except in countries where similar legislation has been passed, what you consider only "theoretically possible impacts" have occurred in real life, thereby rendering them "probable impacts".
I have not found a submission against the Bill, that state that they do not believe transgender people should not have access to documentation that records their preferred identity (although, I am sure there are some). I have randomly looked at about 40, and couldn't find one that stated that objection. The submissions were about the failure to safeguard both the transgender community and those in the wider community from the misuse of process and/or the failure to provide guidance or reassurance on possible negative impacts on the safeguards put in place for the biological sex class of women.
Make no mistake. I believe the MP's who are promoting this Bill have done an appalling job of predicting, and providing suitable responses to these concerns. Their failure to do so in part is responsible for an inability to publicly discuss this topic with genuine intent to resolve it to the benefit of all.
The differing understandings of the words sex, gender, gender identity, women, men, male, female etc makes the whole topic a minefield of misunderstandings and bad assumptions. People are often not even using the same language. How do we overcome that primary obstacle?
I fully support finding a streamlined method of providing transgender people with official government documentation.
I believe a truly progressive government would provide that by ensuring that any transgender person would have immediate access to counselling/medical/support services that facilitate that option.
By doing that instead of removing that safeguard, we ensure that those in the transgender community (which has a high percentage of mental health issues) at least has one guaranteed point of contact with such services. (Similar to the requirement of pregnant women to have a midwife).
This means that support services need to be invested in and grown. Removing the safeguard process, gives successive governments (think National and ACT) the option of reducing these services without regard.
That's one consideration that may be interesting to discuss with you, if you think you have the solution. The other issue with self-id is the ability of those not in the transgender community to misuse the process with the intent to commit harm. I would genuinely be interested in how you think that can be avoided.
Bluntly, the fact that after years of implementation overseas the only negative impacts people point to seem to be individual cases (that are often highly debatable or talk radio reckons) rather than rates suggests to me the negatives of this largely administrative bill are still more theoretical than probable.
McFlock, unfortunately we are repeating the pattern where we are talking past each other. Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect, and can easily be rebutted with a few internet searches. But you have stated more than once your refusal to follow provided links, so there is no point in doing so.
If you get to a place where you think we can actually converse with a genuine intent to solve this discussion issue, then we can give it another go. ie. would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I believe that solution works both for increasing access to services for the transgender community while solving the issue of misuse of process from those without. Perhaps you can propose a better one.
(Just as an aside, do you believe me and others when I make affirmations regarding support for the transgender community or do you consider them false?)
This is the other issue. That's not actually what I wrote, nor certainly intended to imply. There was one discussion at TS (about a trans woman in a US prison ISTR) that did in fact resolve to being some talkback wonk, but I did not say that all cases were restricted to talkback radio. But you jumped on that interpretation as evidence that I'm arguing in bad faith.
Similarly with my refusal to look at some links – particularly when I've already spent half a damned day looking for and reading a judgement that was mentioned (and misinterpreted) in a tweet linked by a commenter.
That's not my bad faith, that's me having limited time and inclination to check the content that the original commenter should have checked before linking.
I apologise for paraphrasing incorrectly, but that is how it came across to me, even on the re-read. There have been numerous incidents related on TS, and again, easily found on the internet, about the harms on both the transgender and wider society by the use of an administration only process for self-id. One incident where you got frustrated is not an excuse for not informing yourself independently. And once again, you are taking issue with how we are talking rather than what we are saying.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Would that it were one incident.
Wrestling scores, excerpts from judgements, anecdotes about predators being thrown into womens prison wings, fathers being locked up for "using the wrong pronoun"… cherry picked, out of context, talkback radio, outright misleading (he was done for repeatedly violating suppression orders by giving his kid's specific medical info to the press against the kid's, the kid's mother's, and the court's wishes).
Those aren't the only instances, just the ones off the top of my head.
Then the flipside is how few comments have been made about Tavistock winning their appeal. Quite a few before the appeal came out. This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up – the point of the observation is that people tend to post links to support their position and that's fine if the links are accurate. But in this debate they seem to be largely assessed on surface value, and all too often fail accuracy checks that the commenters should have done.
Just noticed this paragraph. Missed the Q the first time.
Was it this bit
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
Actually, McFlock, there are submissions from within the transcommunity that object to the self-id provisions in the bill.
It would also be an indication of genuine engagement if you provided more in regards to this discussion than "they said so". I would suggest that the burden of informing your opinion should not rely solely on the testimony of those you have relationships with. The issue is much wider and far-reaching than the personal views of a few people.
This is a societal change, not just a legislative one. It also affects women as a sex class, because it affects sports, awards, services, spaces, quotas, statistics etc that relate to that class.
Others within the transcommunity and those concerned about the impact on the laws and societal mores than affect the biological sex class of women, have brought up those concerns more than once, only to be dismissed as transphobic.
Were you ever supportive of the idea of single-sex spaces? If you understood the need for them before, why has this changed?
Are you supportive of the inclusion of religious women (eg. Muslim), modest women or young women and girls in community facilities? Do you understand that the presence of self-identified male bodied people in those spaces might well result in the exclusion of these biological women from those facilities? How do you, and those who require validation from inclusion in women-only spaces despite male bodies, provide inclusion for those women?
Those examples you have provided are also out of context. The Tavistock ruling, is concerning. You are right. I didn't know it had been overturned, but I do know that I consider that to be a problem rather than a reason to celebrate.
As someone currently on hormone suppression treatment, it is no walk in the park. And I know that my insecurity as a teenager regarding my developing body, and my disconnect with "normal" would have predisposed me to possible solutions that I would have had no ability to provide informed consent for. That may have led to further treatment that rendered me sterile, and unable to function sexually. Do you really think teens have the capability to understand this?
You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology. I see it as what happens when safeguarding and wider considerations are thrown to the wind. We will end up with harm being done to many more than Keira Bell. Don't ask me to celebrate that result.
Again, my opinion is not solely based on the opinions of people I know. It's a combination of that and what the trans community seem to go for. No group agrees completely – there were probably some women who opposed women having the vote, for whatever reason. But the overall direction? That can be seen.
Similarly, "You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology." is actually almost the precise opposite of what I wrote: "This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up".
As for what teens can consent to, many of them are smarter than you give them credit for, and some have very good reasons for not wanting their caregivers invovled in decisions about their reproductive organs. Sure, there should be clear criteria on establishing the capacity for and existence of informed consent. In the UK, that's called the Gillick test. It's a clinical process, not the business of the courts.
Appealing against that doesn't just affect trans patients, it affects every young person needing sexual health services of all kinds but not wanting their parents' involvement in that process.
BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious.
So, no worries about the probable exclusion of some women in women's spaces then. And once again, no answering to the questions regarding your previous support for women only spaces, and why this has changed.
As far as I am aware, the Gillick competence test was created for the prescription of contraception to minors. Fit for purpose, and used to provide medication that on cessation would no longer have an effect. This successful use, has been used to justify the provision of off-label medications, which may have permanent effects, to minors.
I think this is a problem. It is also similar to referring to the harm of gay conversion practices, and conflating that to mean that affirmation only models are the only acceptable approaches when dealing with teenagers and young people.
These are not one-sized fits all solutions. Each situation needs a purpose built solution.
I am actually, because as I mentioned before the language used in these discussions is so fluid and amorphous it is hard to keep track. I perhaps should have used "gender identity ideology" but you can give me the updated appropriate term to refer to. (Given that you have probably an updated definition of the word woman that I don't ascribe to, let's just try to understand what each other is saying rather than get caught up in the semantics.)
jesus christ, did you ever consider the idea that maybe concentrating on one complex topic in a comment and trying really hard to avoid pissing you off might, just might, not be an intentional slight or an indication that I have zero consideration for the other complex topics in this comment thread?
But no, keep seeking out the worst possible inference to make.
That way me removing myself from this thread right now is obviously some example of "no debate" or bad faith rather than exasperation at someone who thinks the lack of "identity" is probably the insulting bit and not the presence of "ideology".
Jesus Christ, McFlock. Instead of being outraged for repeated attempts to engage and requests for you to read comments in their entirety before responding, perhaps you should remove yourself from this thread.
BTW, I don't feel slighted. I feel like someone who continually has to remind you that you are not responding to content. I would only be slighted, if I thought this was done intentionally in an attempt to not engage. I actually think you are unaware that you do it. That's why I ask specific questions, so that the conversation can go back on track.
I remain unlearned in the right phrase to use in regards to gender identity ideology. Do you actually have one to provide? Because statements that regard biological sex as a state of mind is a belief. Hence, ideology.
One simple question:
do you think
is part of
Because I sure don't. It looks to me like an accusation based on yet another worst possible interpretation.
100 percent
McFlock I don't think anyone said they don't see how it might be that the Trans community would find this an unsafe space.
I think the trans community are only seeking affirmation. They are entitled to want that. But they may not find that on the Standard. As I said the Standard is a place for robust and rigourous debate.
I can't understand your bit "throw in a bit of patronizing…."
Women are being silenced. What do you think happened when trans activists successfully shut down their meetings.
If you can't be fucked with anymore, no problem. Just scroll down
RBO are you saying it is offensive to refer to women with penises?
We women are being told by some trans activists that women can have penises, men can give birth and lesbians can have penises (so being a lesbian is no longer about being self sex attracted, it is about being gender identity attracted).
Do you understand why some of us don't accept the above statements?
In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions, I will be accused of running away if I don't respond to all your questions. I am happy to wait until Weka returns or a Site Moderator gives an indication that they do or don't agree with my suggestion of a special daily post for you to discuss this topic and anyone else from either side can join you. I trust you can do the same.
"In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions," – but this is a descriptor used by the transgender community itself.
Oh, that's right. Stop asking me questions or giving me information. Be quiet, be quiet.
It's fine to ask. I can't see the justification for the amount of work involved for an author/mod (it's a fair amount of work). With the US elections every day there were long, heated debates that tended to take over OM, so dedicated posts took the heat out by not annoying so many people that were sick of it, and it made it easier to moderate.
That's not happening with the BDMRR debates (there are days, sometimes a lot, when there's been no discussion at all).
If you don't like the topic, my suggestion is to scroll on by. I have to do this with various TS topics that go through phases eg vaccines at the moment (although as a mod I actually have to scan them to make sure no-one is being an arse)
Please see Internal Post in Back End.
just replied.
Agree Weka. I think people are exaggerating how much of the time this topic comes up on Open Mike.
As well as having push back about it, I have a number of women (I assume) commenters thanking me for bringing it up.
I don't like the idea of having a special post for this topic. It smacks a little of lets get these pesky women off Open Mike
Thanks Weka for you considered reply,
I certainly don't wish to cause anyone any more work on this issue. You asked the other night why there wasn't more engagement from the other side of this issue. May I suggest the piling on, from a passionate few, for even asking for a special daily post to discuss it, may answer that question.
For the record I do not, as Anker suggests below, wish to get any "pesky women off Open Mile" I however, can happily take another option of rather having to scroll passed, I can take a self-imposed avoidance of Open Mike until after the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill has been finalized.
See you after that. Cheers
I agree that pile ons can be counter productive. In this instance, your request was fine, and your replies after that even handed and point, so thanks for that. I find that if too many people are engaging with stuff I am saying it's useful to pick which I want to reply to and focus on those. Or choose not to engage at all (in this case you asked the mods a question, so there was no obligation to respond to anyone else). This is a really useful skill to develop in robust debate culture. One person's pile on is another person's water off a duck's back. I wouldn't class yesterday as a pile on, the people that replied to you were likewise evenhanded and making coherent points. Everyone was ok in what they did despite the apparently conflict.
I will say that some of the response yesterday was based on how you engaged on the topic the other day. I have two thoughts about this. One is that there's no obligation here to respond to anyone other than moderators. However, it does tend to piss people off if someone says something controversial and then says don't talk to me about that.
I also think that where you have been saying you find some of the language about trans people offensive, you probably need to explain what you mean if you are going to stay in the conversations eg women with penises is a common concept in trans circles online, I don't know what is offensive about it because you haven't explained. I would also say that being specific rather than general improves debate eg link to where someone has said 'women with penises' and then we can see what you actually mean (especially the mods).
I would appreciate you acknowledging you have read this, and am fine if you don't want to engage further.
Thanks, I acknowledge I have read this. I wont rehash the offensive comments but even you have, in conversations, acknowledged them on occasions so I didn't see the need to go over them again, as I thoroughly explained why I felt them offensive at the time. I bow to your judgment and will take time off from Open Mike so that I don't get caught up again trying to defend against the hurt that words can cause on a maligned community. Regards, RBO
And the Dad with his three kids that no one could find came back home.
Yei! Finally some good news.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/missing-south-waikato-father-tom-phillips-three-kids-found-safe-and-well-after-three-weeks/4E2FWPWBQCQDHJH2XF235USN4I/
Sometimes, life surprises in a good way.
The selfish, entitled arse certainly owes an apology to his family, Maniapoto iwi, search and rescue folk and members of the local community who gave a substantial amount their time and resources to look for him and his kids.
Selfish arse with living children, which is often not the case for selfish arses.
For that I am thankful.
Yes, wonderful news. I'm sure most of us assumed they were dead, and the news headlines had certainly moved on. Whatever the personal circumstances, an outcome to celebrate.
You wouldn't grudge a "massive search" for someone in the bush because of a broken leg.
Why, would you grudge a search because of someone, as seems likely, with a broken brain.
Both equally need help. As someone who has been involved in searches, it is what we do as a community.
Just pleased, as I have been on other occasions, after searches for people with mental problems, that they are safe.
Yes that is good news
Ardern just got Tova to ask their rehearsed patsy question, so Ardern can say Auckland's border will still be shut at level 2.
Congrats Auckland.
That will be you going to level 2, but with closed borders, so you can't spread yourself round the country in the school holiday.
Edit: Subtlety isn’t Ardern’s thing is it?
I trust you’d conflate clarity and subtlety.
Just saying they could have made it a bit less obvious.
I see, obfuscate like JC and JK. Yeah, nah.
You are right in one respect.
Key would have never openly displayed going to his chosen friendly journalists every presser and feeding them questions.
(to be fair that is probably bollocks sorry. He would have feed questions he needed. They all do, but I am just saying he wouldn't have been so blatant about it)
All good though.
At least now we know what the announcement will be next week.
[Yes, it is bollocks, but you said it anyway. So, you can now provide support for all your assertions in your comment, including that they all (!) feed questions to the friendly (!) journalists [at] every (!) presser. Failing to do so will cost you a month.
Or you can withdraw your trolling bollocks, apologise, and take a week off for wasting my time, unless your apology comes across as genuine, this time, given that you say sorry a lot, but it is obviously rather meaningless coming from you – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 4:25 pm.
I just said I was wrong about Key not doing the same thing.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it. But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked, so well done people, in the grand scheme of things, you have rocked in level 3.
[Hmm, I’d already put you in the Black List for a week, but then dinner called. I see that you slightly edited your comment. So, I’ve slightly edited my note for you that I’d written before dinner.
Good to know that you know that Key is/was not doing the same thing. I’m so relieved that you clarified just that one part of your comment.
It is not about what I want; I gave you an opportunity to correct and redeem yourself with a genuine apology. You did not really grasp that opportunity with both hands.
I cannnot forget anything you say here, unless I delete it and then it still shows up in the Trash folder and I have to delete it there too. What is said, is said and stays said.
You cannot have it both ways; mean what you say, say what you mean. If you have nothing to say then don’t say anything.
You are a disingenuous time-wasting commenter, but I’ll give you one more chance – Incognito]
God, I hope you're right cos my fringe is a hanging over me eyes and I can't see proper. Far more important than anything else. 😉
Edit: I watched chris T and I'm certain you got it wrong, but can understand why you thought it. JA has a policy of kicking off question time with the two TV political editors Jessica Mutch-McKay and Tova O'Brien on alternate days. It was Tova's turn today.
FYI
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/whos-the-prime-minister-going-to-give-the-first-question-to/CZI37LJ4FLWV4H5C5DKNMNE5OQ/I
See my Moderation note @ 6:09 pm.
For what it is worth. Thank you.
It’s worth between a week and a month as long as you sharpen up your comments here.
Incognito.
Did you actually watch the 1pm press conference?
Nope, never watch them pressers; too depressing.
Fine with me. I don't need to galavant around the country to prove I'm able.
As long as work starts next week, and school and sport resumes in Term 4, I'll be happy.
Although, having said that, I am very concerned we are going to look like this in early November.
Christmas might be off after all.
Whatever you think of the PM's answers, to suggest that it's a "rehearsed patsy question" is a solid 9 out of 10 on the conspiracy theory scale (10 involves lizards and aliens).
😂 Quote of the day.
The scale only goes up to 5.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/six-common-conspiracy-theories-and-why-it-s-pointless-to-argue-with-them-1.4531139
From which tier did you scrub Russia Gate?
Apparently now the FBI have indicted some Clinton lawyers for not telling them they were 'on the clock' at the time they were giving evidence.
And for all the cervix havers that lost their cervix to cancer, it appears that with some hormone therapy and some surgery on can grow a cervix.
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1443125834626260993
Persons who suffered from cervical cancer the world over will rejoice in this knowledge.
Is Scout Barbour-Evans a woman?
What is a woman?
What are women?
and also,
Who is Scout Barbour-Evans?
(And if Muttonbird doesn’t know, why would you?)
I think it's possible to debate the issue without bringing in individual trans people and using them as political fodders. Especially in this case because SBE has had a lot of stupid, mean and transphobic arguments directed at them and about them in public.
I'm also concerned that you can't see the problem of asking what you did in response to Sabine's comment. It's none of our business whether any individual NB/trans person has a cervix or not, and it's completely unnecessary for us to know or debate about that person. It's also irrelevant to the issues Sabine pointed to.
Love it Sabine!
test
Your new e-mail address has now been approved and your comments will now appear freely without being caught by Auto-Moderation unless something else triggers it.
cheers.