Open Mike 27/12/2018

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, December 27th, 2018 - 103 comments
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103 comments on “Open Mike 27/12/2018 ”

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  1. James 1
    27 December 2018 at 8:19 am

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12180881

    “Three days earlier it was alleged her actions had left bruising to the upper right arm of the staffer, who had been in the role for six days.

    The report into the incident found it was “probable” that the employee’s version of events was more likely than the Minister’s.

    Whaitiri says there are certain parts of the report she agrees with, but others she “actively continues to challenge”.

    “In this country, we have a hierarchy; white men, white women, brown men, brown women, and sometimes brown women have to talk extra loud to be heard,” the MP said.”

    So it seems as a “brown woman” you have to physically assault staff and leave bruises in order to be heard.

    She was a government minister for goodness sake – I can’t imagine her staff ignoring her because of the colour of her skin.

    Jacinda would be a fool to let her back into a ministers role – she is obviously unrepentant for what she did.

    • Robert Guyton 1.1
      27 December 2018 at 8:36 am

      Whereas Maggie Barry fessed up immediately and handed in her Ministerial warrant quick-smart!

      • Stunned mullet 1.1.1
        27 December 2018 at 9:14 am

        ‘Whataboutism (also known as whataboutery) is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent’s position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument, which in the United States is particularly associated with Soviet and Russian propaganda.When criticisms were leveled at the Soviet Union during the Cold War, the Soviet response would often be “What about…” followed by an event in the Western world.’

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

      • James 1.1.2
        27 December 2018 at 9:22 am

        I missed where she assaulted a staff member –

        • Robert Guyton 1.1.2.1
          27 December 2018 at 9:27 am

          Of course you did, James; you “missed” when Key repeatedly assaulted the ponytail-wearing waitress. I sometimes wonder if you’re completely blind (my apologies and sympathies if you are).

          • James 1.1.2.1.1
            27 December 2018 at 9:31 am

            I was wondering how long that would take.

            *sigh*

            So I guess this makes assaulting a staff member and leaving bruises all ok then? Since you seem happy to ignore this (being the subject of the thread and all).

            • Robert Guyton 1.1.2.1.1.1
              27 December 2018 at 9:36 am

              Do the two bottles of wine Key coughed-up “make it all okay then”?
              (Since you seem…)

            • Pete 1.1.2.1.1.2
              27 December 2018 at 10:38 am

              One account had Whaitiri grabbing the staffer. Another had her pushing the staffer.

              At least you haven’t extrapolated it to ‘whacking’ or ‘hitting’ as I’ve seen elsewhere. You’ve got it to the semantic purity of ‘assaulted.’

              In your world, assaulting, the act of making physical contact, is worse than the the worst verbal abuse. I can momentarily grab someone by the sleeve and yank them and that invites the death penalty. Tormenting staff to any degree for any time until they lose their mind or chuck their job will never equal one fleeting grab.

              Sigh indeed.

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.1.1.3
              27 December 2018 at 1:27 pm

              No it doesn’t but I don’t recall you getting all het up about the ongoing assault that John Key perpetrated on a staff member at a cafe that he frequented.

            • Sabine 1.1.2.1.1.4
              27 December 2018 at 1:59 pm

              actually it does not make anything right,

              but i suggest it is best to not be throwing stones when you sit in a glass house.

              Sadly, John Key while being the Prime Minister of NZ did harass a young women -to the point of where his wife told him to stop, the girl was in tears and everyone was just at wits end as to what to do with the pair of dry balls called John Key – at her work place and everyone just went yawn, he is the PM and surely that is just a bit of horseplaying there….even tho the young women was not interested at all in horseplaying with the PM. The man, while PM was also filmed fondling the hair of young girls until – again on camera – he was told of by the mother.

              Maggy Barry should have stayed with her tomatoes and appropriate companion planting rather then go on to be a Minister who will only be known for harassment of staff – again, just a bit of horseplay right?

              So for what its worth, my 2 cents, all of these fuckwits should have been sacked immediately from their jobs.
              If you can not comport yourself as a decent human being towards others, go away and stay away. No decent company should have to put up with these losers.

              In short, no its not ok if National does it.
              As for that women from the Labour Party, sack her. If there is evidence of physical assault, charge her. Done.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                27 December 2018 at 2:16 pm

                So for what its worth, my 2 cents, all of these fuckwits should have been sacked immediately from their jobs.

                They need a conviction of assault which carries a maximum term of more then two years which would have them automatically out of parliament and never be able to run for being an MP ever again.

    • Gabby 1.2
      27 December 2018 at 3:21 pm

      She’ll be fine as long as she’s got staff who talk back ‘extra loud’ jimby.

  2. te reo putake 2
    27 December 2018 at 8:36 am

    “So it seems as a “brown woman” you have to physically assault staff and leave bruises in order to be heard.”

    Not actually what is said or meant, James. It says a lot that you equate the voices of women with violence. It’s almost like you’re scared of women and the things they say.

    The telling quote is the one about the hierarchy of power, which I’m sure you agree with 100%, representing, as you do, the top echelon.

    • Stunned mullet 2.1
      27 December 2018 at 9:15 am

      Utter cobblers Te Reo clearly you are not married.

    • James 2.2
      27 December 2018 at 9:21 am

      It’s clear she is using it as an excuse for her actions.

      • marty mars 2.2.1
        27 December 2018 at 10:35 am

        Bullshit James you little racist creep. You are selective in your quoting but it does show your odious opinion and it reeks of racism.

        • James 2.2.1.1
          27 December 2018 at 10:45 am

          I have her quote in full (as it was written) and linked to the entire article.

          I think you are projecting Marty mars.

          • marty mars 2.2.1.1.1
            27 December 2018 at 10:52 am

            Your projecting your hate of people of color. So obvious and typical from a rwnj like you.

            • James 2.2.1.1.1.1
              27 December 2018 at 10:56 am

              Now I will concede I think she’s was an extremely poor minister and is quite a horrible person.

              But that has nothing to do with the colour of her skin.

              On that I couldn’t give a shit.

              • marty mars …
                27 December 2018 at 1:04 pm

                You have a very poor understanding of the issues at play. You don’t understand mana for instance and have zero idea of how that influences Māori. You are like a crayon when a fine quill is needed. You not only know little but that wee bit you picked up from the MSM you spin into lies and disinformation – pretty basic troll behaviour and certainly bigoted. You really are a weakling.

                • Bewildered …
                  27 December 2018 at 3:45 pm

                  Ducking a and weaving Marty but still bs you sprout, there is no defense here, your cultural justification is pathetic Now don’t get all wound up and abusive over this, just chill

                • Muttonbird …
                  27 December 2018 at 7:41 pm

                  James isn’t a Kiwi. He’s an English immigrant and a guest here. Like a lot of older English immigrants, James brings colonial thinking to his every conversation and action and has no concept of Maori as a foundation of New Zealand indentity.

                  • James …
                    27 December 2018 at 10:37 pm

                    ^ deliberately stating something as fact with no evidence is poor form.

                    But you would jump to her defence esp as you have admitted prev having assaulted women. (Hey if you can start a meme – so can I ).

                • xanthe3 …
                  27 December 2018 at 10:37 pm

                  Thats just sad marty. One thing this is NOT about is mana

      • Tamati Tautuhi 2.2.2
        27 December 2018 at 10:56 am

        Evidently she grabbed the women by the arm and some minor bruising was inflicted, maybe the staffer is prone to bruising very easily, I don’t think it was a full blown assault as the media made out.

        Obviously Meka did not realize her own strength in this incident which was blown right out of proportion ?

        • bwaghorn 2.2.2.1
          27 December 2018 at 1:03 pm

          She still had no right to touch her and yes she is excusing her behavior by playing the race card.
          She needs to stay on the naughty chair till she accepts her behavior was wrong.

          • marty mars 2.2.2.1.1
            27 December 2018 at 1:11 pm

            “and yes she is excusing her behavior by playing the race card.”

            Nah there is a heirarchy you are just at the top is all and can’t see anyone else from your lofty heights.

            • bwaghorn 2.2.2.1.1.1
              27 December 2018 at 1:23 pm

              I’m at the top 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
              Classic
              At the top of what I’d love to know .
              I’ve had Maori bosses 2 I’ve never been the boss of anyone apart from running a docking crew on occasion.
              I’m one illness from broke and probably homeless .
              Eve n my kiwisaver has turned against me .
              Waitiri is levels above me and should/will stay there she just needs to pull her head in and stop being a bully.

              • marty mars …
                27 December 2018 at 3:15 pm

                Don’t be dense – you’re a white Male aren’t you. Sure you may be at the bottom of that group but you don’t have a clue about groups that SOCIETY oppresses.

                • BM …
                  27 December 2018 at 3:22 pm

                  What are you Mars?

                • Jim …
                  27 December 2018 at 5:08 pm

                  Hard too understand how a Maori women, that holds a reasonably powerful position as a minister in government can claim oppression!

                  • greywarshark …
                    27 December 2018 at 8:57 pm

                    Keep working on the understanding Jim. The problem with the majority of Kiwis (and I presume you are or have become), is that there has not been much thinking happening for 20 years or so. Try drinking regular glasses of water, cut down on the tea, coffee and alcohol and apply your mind to what goes on in NZ and look for how the various factions rate for income and opportunity for good jobs.
                    And who teaches them values of respect for all people – parents? school? the coach of their sports team?

    • Robert Guyton 2.3
      27 December 2018 at 9:24 am

      What Meta Whaitiri said was, ” sometimes brown women have to talk extra loud to be heard,”
      James reinterpreted that as, “So it seems as a “brown woman” you have to physically assault staff and leave bruises in order to be heard.”
      James does this as a matter of course, because it “seems” to him.

      • James 2.3.1
        27 December 2018 at 9:27 am

        Robert

        You would have a point if she said that in regard to perhaps Māori women getting into management etc.

        Not so much when she is using it as an excuse for her assaulting a staff member.

        By defending it you are excusing her actions.

        • Robert Guyton 2.3.1.1
          27 December 2018 at 9:34 am

          “Whaitiri says there are certain parts of the report she agrees with…”
          Can you show that she doesn’t agree that “probably” bruising the staffers arm is wrong? You claim she’s attempting to excuse that action; where’s your evidence???

          • James 2.3.1.1.1
            27 December 2018 at 9:43 am

            The article.

            People like you who minimise the assault really are part of the problem.

            I wonder why you are fixicated on Key but are apologetic for Whaitiri?

            Is it because she is a woman? Māori? Or are you willing to accept it because she she falls on ‘your side’ of the political fence.

            • Robert Guyton 2.3.1.1.1.1
              27 December 2018 at 9:55 am

              Well, James, may I straighten out a few things for you?
              Firstly, I’m not apologising for Whaitiri. If you can show me where I’ve done that, I’d be grateful (and very surprised).
              Secondly, this thread is called “Open Mike”. It is not devoted only to the topic of the first comment made here. If I or anyone wants to talk about Key’s ponytail-pulling, they can.
              Thirdly, I’m not “fixicated” on anything at all, though it sounds fun.
              Fourthly, I’m not minimising Whaitiri actions or statements, you are assuming that I am. I did notice though, that the quote you provided said:
              “The report into the incident found it was “probable” that the employee’s version of events was more likely than the Minister’s.” and I reckon I know what “probable” means and it ain’t “certain”, so I’m cautious about taking a concreted stance and notice that you are not so careful.
              Fifthly, Maggie Barry’s situation is similar in many ways, but you seem unwilling to comment on it, demanding that the topic of your comment is the only one that can be discussed – that seems odd to me. Why is it that you won’t give your views on someone else topic, James? Barry’s situation as worthy of discussion as Whaitiri’s, surely?

              • James …
                27 December 2018 at 10:16 am

                you understand the difference between a thread and a post not.

                If you want to start a thread on key – go for it. I’m sure you will get the usuals pile in. But if you are using the “reply” button try to keep it on subject.

                • Robert Guyton …
                  27 December 2018 at 10:24 am

                  James – though you may feel you have the authority to dictate what a person might say on a thread you’ve initiated, you don’t. A moderator here might remind someone to keep on-topic where one is set by them, but Open Mike isn’t such a post. In any case, being lectured by you about thread-jacking is beyond hilarious, so keep it up – you’re good for a laugh today!

            • veutoviper 2.3.1.1.1.2
              27 December 2018 at 10:55 am

              James, talk about flogging a dead horse … This subject was done to death here on TS and in the media at the time.

              Were formal charges of assault ever laid against Whaitiri? No.

              Was she found guilty of assault in a court of law? No.

              Has she been punished for possibly bruising a staffer? Yes. On the basis of a review – not a formal trial in a court of law – she lost her ministerial positions and was sent to the back bench.

              Does she have a right to continue to dispute parts of the review? Yes. It was not a formal finding by a court of law; she was not given her legal rights to be heard in a court of law, or to appeal. (See below.)

              I have worked directly with/for Meka in the public service and detailed that experience here on TS at the time.

              Here briefly on 31 August – https://thestandard.org.nz/facing-meka/#comment-1519566

              And more detail here with a further follow-up two down from this comment.
              https://thestandard.org.nz/facing-meka/#comment-1519865

              As you will note, Meka worked both in the public service at senior levels and in Parliament (eg as a senior adviser to her mentor, Parekura Horomia, when he was Minister of Maori Affairs).

              To have then been elected to Parliament herself after Horomia’s death, and then to be appointed to Ministerial positions under the new Government would have been a career pinnacle to Meka.

              To then lose those positions on the basis of one incident which was then only investigated internally and not in a court of law (with rights of appeal etc accorded under the latter’s formal judicial processes) would have been devastating to her.

              She has paid a heavy price for whatever took place that day – some would say too heavy a price, including not being afforded her rights under sections 24 and 25 of the Bill of Rights Act 1990 (BORA) – the rights of persons charged, and the minimum standards of criminal procedure.

              http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/whole.html#DLM225528

              Personally I understand why she may still be questioning the findings of that internal investigation. OTOH, having worked for Meka, I can understand that someone who did not know her and had only worked for her for a day, could misconstrue her. In saying that, in no way do I condone physical assault in any way or any circumstance.

              We will probably never know what actually took place. However, we do have another principle in our Bill of Rights Act 1990 that Whaitiri would also have been entitled to if this case had gone to court – that is the principle of double jeopardy under section 26.

              Perhaps, in terms of fairness and equality, we – including the media – should be applying this principle to other situations such as this one where the accused has not been given their rights to a court hearing etc under BORA but has nevertheless been found guilty in the court of public opinion and/or by non judicial reviews/investigations AND paid a price for those findings.

              • Robert Guyton …
                27 December 2018 at 11:09 am

                Yours is the comprehensive comment, veutoviper – makes the rest of us look like chumps 🙂

              • Pete …
                27 December 2018 at 11:12 am

                We will never know and cannot ever know.

                Which means that people with the inclinations of James can depict it loud and long as Ms Waitiri ‘giving someone the bash.’

                Assault? Insult. Insult to anyone inclined to have intelligent debate about anything in the country. As it stands the James’ of the world have the politician cast for life.

              • James …
                27 December 2018 at 11:34 am

                Much respect for your great reply.

                I assume you would be happy with that principle to be applied to all – including national MPs?

                Because that is something very much lacking on here.

                In regard to the rest of your post – thank you for the detail, thought and effort you put in.

                • veutoviper …
                  27 December 2018 at 12:11 pm

                  Yes, James – I absolutely believe in such principles being applied to everyone – regardless of race, religion, gender, colour etc including political beliefs and leanings.

                  Hence my comment(s) over the last day or so defending your rights of reply to claims made against you personally and to seek proof of those claims. eg https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-23-12-2018/#comment-1565009

                  Nothing to do with your political leanings – everything to do with your – and everyone’s – rights under BORA etc.

                  • Ad …
                    27 December 2018 at 1:18 pm

                    Graceful and gallant there V V.

                    • veutoviper …
                      27 December 2018 at 2:39 pm

                      As a woman, Ad, I have never been called gallant before, ROFL!

                      Not particularly physically graceful either! But will accept both terms as a compliment, Thank you.

                  • James …
                    27 December 2018 at 10:39 pm

                    Noted and appreciated

                  • Muttonbird …
                    28 December 2018 at 3:33 am

                    The effing search function doesn’t work. Bit hard to provide links to comments and conversations so one must go from memory instead.

                    You are very protective of James and I’m not sure why. Perhaps you are sweetened by the occasional saccharine reply.

              • Anne …
                27 December 2018 at 11:43 am

                Well said veutoviper. This was your area of expertise in the Public Service and I suspect your knowledge of this topic is far greater than anyone else who comments here.

                Initially I was annoyed with Whaitiri for allowing her frustration to get the better of her but the more that comes out about the incident, the more I have some sympathy for her situation.

                I think Mallard has hit on a long term problem inside Parliamentary Services. Both new ministers and parliamentarians in general – together with novice parliamentary staff members – are not given sufficient training on how to handle the various obstacles that must constantly arise.

                In this case, it appears the new press officer to Whaitiri did not know it was her job to ensure that her minister was where she should be – in this instance standing with Jacinda Ardern for a photo. That is the primary task of a press officer to ensure maximum press coverage for their minister.

                On the other hand it was wrong of Whaitiri to respond to the incident the way she did.

                Both have acknowledged they were wrong which is more than Maggie Barry has done or is ever likely to do. Barry may not have physically touched anyone, but she has bullied individuals to the point they have felt suicidal. The effects of psychological bullying can be greater and last a lot longer than most physical bullying as anyone who has been on the receiving end will tell you. Unfortunately its the hardest to prove because the perpetrators are invariably cunning enough not to do it when witnesses are present.

              • Sacha …
                27 December 2018 at 12:07 pm

                From reports at the time, it seemed to me that Whaitiri lost her roles because of how the discrepancies between the inquiry and her own account were represented to and received by the PM – not purely due to the inquiry findings.

                As you say, we will never know and it is well-buried horsemeat by now. You’d think James would still be stuffed from xmas.

              • Chris T …
                27 December 2018 at 1:37 pm

                Mate. She had a staff turn over that makes Heathrow Airport on a Saturday seem quiet.

                She assaulted a staffer.

                She is now making excuses

                How anyone can condone that is weird

                • Pete …
                  27 December 2018 at 2:36 pm

                  Having a big staff turnover is bad? Is a sign the MP is terrible? Did AnneTolley have as big a turnover and office ‘personality differences’ as Maggie Barry as Meka Whaitiri?

                  • veutoviper …
                    27 December 2018 at 2:50 pm

                    On the subject of turnover, I actually covered that in one of my earlier comments back in early September – links in my 2.3.1.1.1.2 above, but might as well quote it here (with a few small edits):

                    … The investigation is being carried out by Ministerial Services (part of the Dept of Internal Affairs) as the staffer would be employed through Ministerial Services (MS), not Parliamentary Services (PS) who are not responsible for providing funding/staff for Ministers such as press officers, researchers etc. IMO and experience, MS are very professional and well versed in such matters as employment law, investigations etc – and are very thorough and careful. They have to be. They may well employ an outside independent investigator such as an employment law firm or similar.

                    RE the turnover aspect, the fact that many staff have left her Ministerial office is actually not unusual because of how the allocation of Parliamentary staff (both Parliamentary Service staff to MPs and Ministerial Services staff to Ministers) operates.

                    As I understand it, each of these Services have a pool of staff of various skills, qualifications and experience available for allocation at the beginning of a new Government which are then allocated to MPs and Ministers. Other staff are employed to fill any gaps, very specific roles etc. But it is all a bit of a ‘mix and match’ lolly scramble and the first year of a new Government is a bit of a shakedown period as MPs and Ministers and such staff find their feet and whether the employment relationships fit or don’t. So there are often big turnovers of staff during this period in particular.

                    I can think of many other MPs and Ministers over the years who have had similar levels of staff turnover – but some of them also had/have other employees who have worked for them for eons. One such is Winston Peters.

                    As well as MS and PS staff, departmental advisers seconded from the relevant Ministry(s) or Department(s) also work in Minister’s offices (as I did quite a number of times over the years).

                    Then yet another type of employees/contractors are political policy advisers/press officers whose sole allegiance is to their Party, Minister, Leader/Deputy Leader of their Party, MPs.

                    So Minister’s offices (and to a lesser degree MP’s offices) can be real mixture of people with different roles and objectives, different employers and employment contracts – all of which can add to the potential for things to be less than smooth unless managed carefully.”

                  • Gabby …
                    27 December 2018 at 3:25 pm

                    It’s not good petey.

        • te reo putake 2.3.1.2
          27 December 2018 at 10:04 am

          Bullshit. She is not using it to ‘defend her actions’. If you’d switch your brain on, you’d remember she denies the allegation. So she is not ‘defending’ something she says didn’t actually happen.

        • marty mars 2.3.1.3
          27 December 2018 at 10:37 am

          You are a bulkshit artist James. Just another racist pushing agenda and using people of color as sacrifices to your disgusting personal philosophy of racist hate.

          • James 2.3.1.3.1
            27 December 2018 at 10:48 am

            Who agenda is this – she is the one raising race in regard to this issue.

            • marty mars 2.3.1.3.1.1
              27 December 2018 at 10:51 am

              Piss off noddy. Take your racism and shove it.

              • James …
                27 December 2018 at 10:58 am

                Can’t discuss the point huh?

                I assume you were ok with her giving her staff member bruises ?

                • Robert Guyton …
                  27 December 2018 at 11:02 am

                  Marty – James has raised a point – YOU MUST DISCUSS IT!!!

                  • marty mars …
                    27 December 2018 at 11:06 am

                    Yeah racists love that shit. I think it really shows how ineffectual and woefully useless they are in real life.

                  • OnceWasTim …
                    27 December 2018 at 12:13 pm

                    Yes he MUST MUST MUST!. If he doesn’t, then James will know he’s a legend (in his own mind) and he’s won.
                    I hope to Christ he doesn’t work in one of those ‘teams’, or manage staff for that matter.
                    By the way – did you ever get to have that conversation with James?
                    I’d recommend you have someone from Mediation Services present – you know that MoBIE agency? With a bit of luck they’ll be familiar with this little mediator’s gem from the past:
                    “I know you believe you understood what you thought I said – but I’m not sure that what you heard is not what I meant”
                    OR pistols at ten paces might be a better option, and far more efficient and effective, if not pragmatic (going forward)

                • marty mars …
                  27 December 2018 at 11:03 am

                  I assume you like beating up things James – bullyboys often do.

              • Tamati Tautuhi …
                27 December 2018 at 11:01 am

                James has achieved his desired result for the day, pissing some people off on TS which was his objective when he put up the post this morning. Try not to feed the TROLL ?

                • marty mars …
                  27 December 2018 at 11:04 am

                  You’re a racist troll too so why listen to a wanker like you?

                  • James …
                    27 December 2018 at 11:31 am

                    Gee you are a grumpy puppy this morning arnt you.

                    Hope you cheer up for 2019.

                    • One Two …
                      27 December 2018 at 12:35 pm

                      Do your twenty something sons and their children, your grand children, know their 48 year old dad/grandad is an agitator on a left leaning blog site?

                      What age are the grandkids (plural) which you referred to yesterday, James?

                    • James []
                      27 December 2018 at 1:45 pm

                      Their ages have nothing to do with anything – other than for you to bring it up again and again and again.

  3. marty mars 3
    27 December 2018 at 10:59 am

    Bummer

    “People are being warned to stay from 12 Auckland beaches this summer as they are contaminated by human and animal faeces.”

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/109449059/12-auckland-beaches-declared-noswim-zones-due-to-human-faeces-contamination

    In other related news – commenters are being asked to be extra careful on open Mike today as a silly little boy James has code browned and spread his faecal matter all over the post. Please wash everything including your eyes if you read his shit.

    • James 3.1
      27 December 2018 at 11:36 am

      Now you are just starting to sound hysterical.

      Chill out – life’s good.

      • greywarshark 3.1.1
        27 December 2018 at 9:36 pm

        James
        You didn’t add anything to the discussion with that comment. Why DYSTFU. The moderators can’t think of you as anything but someone starting flame wars.

    • fender 3.2
      27 December 2018 at 11:46 am

      So it’s fair to assume James has been swimming at all twelve of those affected beaches recently. One of those swimming nappies on his butt and another one covering his mouth could have prevented this unfortunate situation.

    • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.3
      27 December 2018 at 4:55 pm

      I swam at 5 of those beaches last summer snow I can’t. Thought this government was going to do more for the environment than any previous government?

      • mac1 3.3.1
        27 December 2018 at 5:52 pm

        Imagine a country where for ten years nearly, the roads have been poorly designed and maintained, there have been few mechanics and roading workers trained, where the vehicle fleet has been allowed to age, where trucks have been allowed to get bigger and bigger with consequent damage where promises for new roads and bridges have not been met.

        That has been NZ from 2008-2017.

        And then a tourist comes in 2017 and says “I drove these roads in 2005 and there was nothing wrong with them.”

        But this is not about roads only. It’s about wages and working conditions, It’s about taxation favouritism. It’s about debilitating the unions. It’s about not spending enough on on vital infrastructure, on health and education. It’s about wayward priorities like flag referenda. It’s about running an economy on immigration and environmental degradation. It’s about poor regulation especially where it matters and then not enforcing laws and regulations properly.

        It’s about nine years of poor government by poor politicians and senior civil servants, for the benefit of mostly of a proportion of the populace who are coincidentally not the poor.

        Then the same tourist comes back a year later and expects it all to be fixed?

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.3.1.1
          27 December 2018 at 7:13 pm

          Probably the stupidest metaphor in a long time. It was fine a year ago, now it isn’t. It was fine every year before last, now it isn’t. It’s broken in the last year.

          Guess the government is better at selling water than keeping it clean

          • mac1 3.3.1.1.1
            27 December 2018 at 8:01 pm

            No, Tuppence, the point is that the amount of effort required to fix, upgrade and rebuild infrastructure is immense. It is simply not credible to see a government deliberately run a country down and then demand fixes in the time frame you demand.

            I have the money to fix a small amount of earthquake damage, but a dearth of tradesmen/builders to do it. They are busy for example building houses etc in our area for workers in a booming wine industry and for retirees coming into the area.

            Have you a reference to back up your claim that all was fine in terms of the environment a year ago or did you luck it, or did you deliberately choose beaches which were swimmable at the time you chose from a wider selection of compromised beaches, as you would, of course.

            This is what I can easily find.
            16 Auckland beaches unswimmable in November 2017.
            Auckland beaches unswimmable 30% of time- in early 2018.
            10 beaches unswimmable in early 2017.
            January 2017 60% of monitored rivers unswimmable. etc etc etc.

            Your argument based on your probably wise choices last summer is not sufficienty robust evidence to argue that this a problem made by this government, not attended to by this government/local authorities or of a size able to be fixed within a year, given that much pollution is derived from agricultural sources and from human waste compounded by heavy periodic rainfall.

            With the best will in the world, how long does it take to fix Auckland’s rainwater and sewerage problems to the point where there is no pollution?

      • greywarshark 3.3.2
        27 December 2018 at 6:21 pm

        Damn you Tuppence S. What did you leave behind you? When are you going to care about being a good thinking citizen. Everytime i read you it is something unhelpful to people trying to guard and better our environment.

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury 3.3.2.1
          27 December 2018 at 7:11 pm

          Take only photographs, leave only foot prints.

          So damn you, you old coot. What do you bring to the table that makes your contribution so special and worthy.

          It’s your generation with the most to answer for. So fuck off

          • Drowsy M. Kram 3.3.2.1.1
            27 December 2018 at 8:33 pm

            “damn you, you old coot” – “fuck off”.

            A thought-free reply – infantile really.

            Not to worry, Dr Smith is currently redefining quality standards to avoidt sinking to new lows.

            “She [Rosie Bosworth] criticised New Zealand’s various agricultural sectors for failing to collaborate on responses to this challenge, saying it there had been “enough f…ing around”.

            “Do it tomorrow because we have got about five years before this hits our shores like a massive tsunami.”

            https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nick-smith-tweaks-freshwater-swimming-standards-b-206286

          • greywarshark 3.3.2.1.2
            27 December 2018 at 9:41 pm

            That wasn’t a useful reply. You don’t add anhything to the discourse. You RW people just try to drag the blog down, and you certainly do manage to bring it down quite a few notches.

            It’s not people who are trying to shift NZrs out of the muddy rut of cow poo they are in or tolerate, because as the quote above says.

            “Do it tomorrow because we have got about five years before this hits our shores like a massive tsunami.”

  4. marty mars 4
    27 December 2018 at 12:56 pm

    Great work. – hard to actually appreciate how awesome this mahi is – as good as it gets. So many positives for individuals, family, whānau, communities and our country.

    Greymouth-based Treanor is one of the trailblazers for Oranga Tamariki’s new Kairaranga-a-whānau role, connecting vulnerable Māori children with extended family all around the country. She researches family trees, tracking down distant whānau in the hope of forging new family connections.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/108992047/for-vulnerable-mori-children-theres-nothing-quite-like-whnau

    • Tamati Tautuhi 4.1
      27 December 2018 at 5:45 pm

      + 100% will help a lot of young maori going forward, the dislocation from their whanau has been a big problem in the past, not just maori, but all cultures.

  6. joe90 6
    27 December 2018 at 9:01 pm

    Oh look, the internets are a scam.

    /

    [thread]

    The numbers are all fking fake, the metrics are bullshit, the agencies responsible for enforcing good practices are knowing bullshiters enforcing and profiting off all the fake numbers and none of the models make sense at scale of actual human users. https://t.co/sfmdrxGBNJ pic.twitter.com/thvicDEL29— Aram Zucker-Scharff (@Chronotope) December 26, 2018

    https://twitter.com/Chronotope/status/1078003966863200256

    How much of the internet is fake? Studies generally suggest that, year after year, less than 60 percent of web traffic is human; some years, according to some researchers, a healthy majority of it is bot. For a period of time in 2013, the Times reported this year, a full half of YouTube traffic was “bots masquerading as people,” a portion so high that employees feared an inflection point after which YouTube’s systems for detecting fraudulent traffic would begin to regard bot traffic as real and human traffic as fake. They called this hypothetical event “the Inversion.”

    http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/12/how-much-of-the-internet-is-fake.html

  7. halfcrown 7
    27 December 2018 at 9:43 pm

    Now for something completely different. Saw tonight a 87 Two Ronnies Christmas Show.

    Very dated and corny but hey the wit was fantastic beats Master fucking Chef and other similiar shit hands down
    A small sample of the wit
    Ronnie Corbett advised that the Noise Abatment Society were going to sing Silent Night Just brilliant.

  8. Eco Maori 8
    28 December 2018 at 10:08 am

    The next generation know’s reality we can not rely on the Pollies to do the correct thing and use all the resourse the Papatuanuku has to build OUR grandchildren a Safer future well I just SEEN one yesterday spouting about spending $700 BILLION on Arms.
    WTF we need to gift more to the poor countrys to help thy neighour servive Climate change sea level rising green house warming Risks of ‘domino effect’ of tipping points greater than thought, study says
    Scientists warn policymakers not to ignore links, and stress that ‘every action counts’Policymakers have severely underestimated the risks of ecological tipping points, according to a study that shows 45% of all potential environmental collapses are interrelated and could amplify one another.
    The authors said their paper, published in the journal Science, highlights how overstressed and overlapping natural systems are combining to throw up a growing number of unwelcome surprises.

    Global warming melting UK dreams of a white Christmas
    Read more

    “The risks are greater than assumed because the interactions are more dynamic,” said Juan Rocha of the Stockholm Resilience Centre. “The important message is to recognise the wickedness of the problem that humanity faces.”
    The study collated existing research on ecosystem transitions that can irreversibly tip to another state, such as coral reefs bleaching and being overrun by algae, forests becoming savannahs and ice sheets melting into oceans. It then cross-referenced the 30 types of shift to examine the impacts they might have on one another and human society.Among the latter pairings were Arctic ice sheets and boreal forests. When the former melt, there is less ice to reflect the sun’s heat so the temperature of the planet rises. This increases the risks of forest fires, which discharge carbon into the air that adds to the greenhouse effect, which melts more ice. Although geographically distant, each amplifies the other.
    Advertisement

    By contrast, a one-way domino-type impact is that between coral reefs and mangrove forests. When the former are destroyed, it weakens coastal defences and exposes mangroves to storms and ocean surges.
    The deforestation of the Amazon is responsible for multiple “cascading effects” – weakening rain systems, forests becoming savannah, and reduced water supplies for cities like São Paulo and crops in the foothills of the Andes. This, in turn, increases the pressure for more land clearance.
    Until recently, the study of tipping points was controversial, but it is increasingly accepted as an explanation for climate changes that are happening with more speed and ferocity than earlier computer models predicted. The loss of coral reefs and Arctic sea ice may already be past the point of no return. There are signs the Antarctic is heading the same way faster than thought. Ka kite ano links below P.S The kumara know how sweet it is

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/dec/20/risks-of-domino-effect-of-tipping-points-greater-than-thought-study-says

  9. Eco Maori 9
    28 December 2018 at 11:24 am

    A new generation of women want to redefine ‘loud woman’ … (left to right) Lady Gaga, Michelle Obama, Geena Davis, Rihanna, Adele and Angela Merkel. Illustration:
    In praise of loud women – the joy and power of being noisy and female Eco Maori has quite a few in my whano and I tau toko them as well Ngati Porou IWI has respected wahine for centrys we have had wahine toa/wahine warriors I say because of our culture we influnced wahine voteing.
    Eco Maori tau toko’s wahine because its the correct thing to do they are the nurtures they are more intelligent than most men and when we get %50 of wahine in leadership positions OUR World will be a much better humane intelligent envirmentaly friendly Papatuanuku . My big voice was frowned upon when I was a girl in the 70s. Now, celebrities from Beyoncé to Michelle Obama Geena Davis are helping to tear up the idea of what a woman should sound . So, what are we supposed to do with the idea of loud women in our postfeminist age? Where have they all gone? Theresa May seems to maintain her fragile power by being the opposite of loud. Angela Merkel built a 30-year career on being as unnoticeable as possible. The response to Germaine Greer in recent years can be summed up as: “Shut up.” Is it no longer acceptable to be a woman and a noisy, loquacious pain in the arse? After all, the women we now think of as loud usually communicate through performance as larger-than-life versions of themselves: Beyoncé, Rihanna, Lady Gaga.
    In everyday life, there is still something uncomfortable for a woman about being called loud, because the implication is that a) you don’t care about the people around you (otherwise, why are you making them feel uncomfortable?) and b) you don’t care what other people think about you. To allow yourself to be loud as a woman is to be borderline psychopathic – to switch off your empathy and your emotional intelligence – to love the sound of your own voice, to take up too much space. That is the theory, at least. (“Who do you think you are? Beyoncé?”
    Ka kite ano links below P.S Thanks for the tau toko from around Papatunuku.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/nov/06/in-praise-of-loud-women-the-joy-and-power-of-being-noisy-and-female

  10. Eco Maori 10
    28 December 2018 at 1:44 pm

    Here you go all the maori who think this system is fair and unbiest wake up. This is what maori need more money in education for the lower classes as we are at the lowest rung of life in Aotearoa ana to kai. As the upper classes get the top jobs in Aotearoa there elitist glasses only lets them see life from there point of view and in most cases is DOWN on the lower classes Hence a system were its all good for them to cheat and buy there way out of human mistakes and throw the warth of there system at the poor people who most times are doing things just to survive.
    Inequality has been exacerbated since the education “reforms” enacted by the Labour Party government of 1984–90, supported by the trade unions and enforced by successive administrations. A “market” model was imposed on schools and universities, with self-governing boards tasked with imposing “business” disciplines and competition for students. In the early 1990s, many schools in working-class areas were struggling to survive.
    In 1989, student fees were introduced and have increased almost every year. Tertiary study, including at polytechnics, has now become too costly for many working-class students. In 2017, it was estimated that the combined student loan debt of 731,800 people, with an average debt of $NZ21,000, was $15.3 billion.
    Significantly, the material produced by the Herald shatters the assiduously cultivated myth that “disparities” in education are not a matter of social class, but are due to other factors, such as ethnicity and gender.
    All governments have promoted identity politics to divide the working class, while elevating a small upper middle class layer, particularly among indigenous Maori. A virtual academic industry, abetted and funded by the MoE, is devoted . to sustaining the notion that Maori and Pacific students are worse off because of “institutional racism,” not class.
    The insistence that ethnicity is the central cause of inequality has fuelled reactionary political agendas, including demands for racially segregated school systems and charter schools controlled by Maori tribal-based businesses. As in the US and Britain, these publicly-funded, privately-run schools were introduced by the National government to undermine public education and establish a bridge-head for widespread privatisation.
    Social class divisions, however, are asserting themselves more powerfully than ever, as capitalism lurches more deeply into global crisis. Internationally, including in New Zealand, teachers and other sections of the working class are beginning to fight back. Primary school teachers held a 24-hour nationwide strike in mid-August, following an effective pay freeze for much of the past decade, and severely understaffed schools. Their primary demands were for a pay increase of 16 percent, smaller class sizes and more support for needy students Ka kite ano links below.

    https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/10/02/nzed-o02.html

  11. Eco Maori 11
    28 December 2018 at 3:50 pm

    A dark tale of dispossession and greed
    by Vincent O’Malley | Dec 9, 2018 | 2 | 6 min read

    Vincent O’Malley
    For well over 25 years, Vincent O’Malley, a Pākehā historian, has been uncovering and recounting many of the rich and often discomforting stories about how Māori and Pākehā have got along since they began sharing Aotearoa 200 or so years ago.
    His most substantial book has been The Great War for New Zealand, where he explains what went on in the Waikato, especially in the wake of the New Zealand Settlements Act in 1863.
    But here he focuses on the significance of that legislation — and the need for us to understand and remember it.But here he focuses on the significance of that legislation — and the need for us to understand and remember it.

    When dates were being considered for the first Rā Maumahara commemorating the New Zealand Wars, one suggestion was December 3. That day doesn’t mark the anniversary of any particular battle or conflict. Instead, it’s the day in 1863 that Governor George Grey signed into law the New Zealand Settlements Act.
    It’s an innocuous-sounding piece of legislation but it had devastating consequences for many Māori communities. The Settlements Act provided the primary legislative mechanism for raupatu — sweeping land confiscations that were supposedly intended to punish acts of “rebellion” while also recouping the costs of fighting the wars. It’s an innocuous-sounding piece of legislation but it had devastating consequences for many Māori communities. The Settlements Act provided the primary legislative mechanism for raupatu — sweeping land confiscations that were supposedly intended to punish acts of “rebellion” while also recouping the costs of fighting the wars.
    It declared that where “any Native Tribe or Section of a Tribe or any considerable number thereof” had committed acts of “rebellion against Her Majesty’s authority” since January 1, 1863, their lands could be declared subject to the Act and seized for the purposes of settlement.
    It was part of a package of measures passed by the all-Pākehā parliament to crush Māori independence.

    Governor George Grey
    Grey and his ministers had drawn up these confiscation plans before invading Waikato in July 1863 and, by August, had begun recruiting military settlers who were to be offered a portion of the seized lands in return for their services . Loyal” Māori could apply for compensation for their losses — initially in money but later including lands. But the Compensation Court process that followed returned only a fraction of what was lost, often in completely different areas and always under a new legal form of title that meant many of these lands were quickly lost to their owners. Ka kite ano links below

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/history/a-dark-tale-of-dispossession-and-greed/

  12. Eco maori 12
    28 December 2018 at 5:51 pm

    Kia ora Tekaea Aotearoa is paradise we have heaps of guess and a lot of people are traveling to there holidays it’s cool that the price of fuel went down.
    It’s ka pai to see Pohorawiri marae getting a spruce up it will be able to cope with all the tangata whenua gathering well into the future.
    The salvation army does a very good service for tangata whenua in Aotearoa.
    One can see the results of nine years of smoky governments suppressing Maori and the poor people as more food parcels that are needed has risen sharply as of late.
    ka pai to the horouta wake whine are shining brighter.
    Ka kite ano

  13. eco maori 13
    28 December 2018 at 6:37 pm

    Kia ora Newshub everyone has to drive carefully in Aotearoa as the roads are packed and they are not 3 lane highways that our guest are use to hence the road toll is climbing .Condolences to the people who lost love ones in the Indonesia
    It is not accetable that tamariki are dieing in custerdy in the USA boarder detention centers.
    The Tauranga council just permeted to many houses to be built and did not have climate change in there plans and look what happeneds tutai in the moana
    Good on Collin O’brady for his treck across Antarctica solo some one could not say his name I wonder why I know.
    Its a real crime letting all those children starving in Yemen there need to be more aid sent into help the children.
    Do you believe those stats on daved seenothing getting all those hits on trademe for twerking haha .Ka kite ano P.S Eco Maori has another word he has eliminated must be a reason they keep pushing thee other money

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