Polity: Key lies to Parliament: The proof
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- Date published:
1:24 pm, May 8th, 2014 - 127 comments
Categories: john key, Judith Collins, Parliament -
Tags: Oravida, polity
The original of this post by Rob Salmond at Polity is here.
Yesterday, John Key lied to Parliament. He made a very specific claim about a set of official documents, and those same documents show clearly that the claim was false.
First, here’s Key’s statement in Parliament, in response to a question from Labour’s Grant Robertson:
The [MFAT] paperwork shows right through this that not only did the Minister have a very busy programme, which the member wants to gloss over, all on judicial and justice issues, but, secondly, all the way through it talks about a private dinner.
I added the underlining to the critical phrases, in which Key assures Parliament that there was complete consistency throughout the planning process for Collins’ visit, and that the now infamous dinner with Oravida and the mystery Chinese border official was always intended to be private.
Well, let’s go to the tape, provided by those very same documents, as I summarized yesterday:
8 October
Collins specifically requests that MFAT invite Stone Shi and Julia Xu to whatever official event [redacted] attends1.
This document shows Collins attempting to engineer an official meeting between herself, Oravida, and [redacted Chinese Border Official].
15 October
MFAT officials learn2:It appears Stone Shi has organised directly for the Minister to meet with a [redacted] (do they mean [redacted]) on Sunday evening. She would like you [NZ Ambassador to China] and Connie to attend.
Collins’ office directly requests briefing for the dinner, and also asks for Ambassadorial attendance3.
This document shows Collins not only arranging an official dinner for herself, Oravida, and [redacted Chinese Border Official], but requesting the New Zealand Ambassador to China attend, giving it even more official clout.
16 October
Collins’ office demands MFAT explain “why the Sunday dinner with [redacted] has not been included in the visit programme.”4
This document is utterly damning. It shows Collins wanted the dinner to have official status so badly that she question’s MFAT’s decision to leave it off the official programme.
These documents clearly contradict Key’s statement to Parliament not once, not twice, but three times. He was referring specifically to these documents in his statement. He lied.
If Key is anywhere near Wellington today, he simply has to come to the House to correct his answer. Deeply embarrassing that may be, but he cannot allow such blatant untruths to stand uncorrected.
They say its never the crime that gets you, it’s the cover up. How wretched must Judith Collins feel now that she has reduced the Prime Minister to lying in Parliament on her behalf, all in order to conceal an obvious and ugly truth.
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Much as I would often disagree with his opinions, I’ve gotta say, Rob is streets ahead of John Pagani at doing this job.
Good work, Rob.
what do you mean by “this job”?
John Key relies on people not noticing or following up on his words. With John Armstrong and Whaleoil around to applaud his antics, Mr Key may be misjudging the appetite for holding him to his words. Smug arrogance won’t keep you alive Johnny Boy.
I expect that Grant will haunt Key with his own words next week.
And yes Rob. Great work!
Interesting to note that the mystery dinner guest’s name has been withheld under section 6(a): to avoid prejudicing the international relations of the New Zealand Government.
is this because the chinese govt does ordoesnt know who it is? because the chinese might make an example of him for shaming them?
for my part i believe the chinese govt must know who he is. a foreign govt minister in town would surely be under scrutiny in a nation like china?
i spoke with someone involved in fisher and paykel when bought by haier. the chinese expect bribes to keep the process moving. the chinese employee is reluctant to make a decision alone, happy enough to do so with another person, but not alone.this person told me the first mandarin they were taught at management level was for “fucking peasants”.
a bottle of whiskey here, a family trip there, but covered up, and kept seperate from the top level company executives who know its happening but not by their hand.
Everyone knows who he is, it’s Ted Redac, the well known Chinese border official. Everyone knows that in China your surname goes first – so it’s Redac Ted. Geez you lefties are slow……
took you two days to think that up grumpy?? you going to do a slylands and call your colleagues over for a giggle?
How could a private dinner prejudice the international relations of the New Zealand Government?
He asked, innocently…
all the other chinese border official who wish they were friends with collins might withdraw their labour? prison means nothing after the disappointment of being rejected by judith for friendship.
Well you won’t get Key in parliament today he is currently in Whangarei at the National Party Cabinet club Luncheon at the Prawn Bar & Grill. There is a small group of activists, one with a loud hailer giving the ‘pay for favours’ guests what for over their donation scamming.
Thanks to the activists for getting out there and doing that 🙂
Your welcome 🙂
I’ve heard about some of you lot in Whangarei 😀
You are well informed
The strong arm of Unions represent workers who work behind the scene at these events. Put it this way I wouldn’t want to eat anything put infront of me at such events lol.
More proof Unions are scum ……. well at least the one you represent.
Funny what you consider proof.
If you believe the practice of adding extra protein to coffee is confined to union members you are very much mistaken. It’s a disgusting practice, but then so is the politics of the minimum wage, so who you gonna trust?
Drink a clear tea and add your own milk is my advice.
Yes it is a disgusting practice and in this instance if the commenter is to be believed sanctioned by the respective union…….. yuk I think most of the union’s members and the coworkers of anyone involved in this type of thing would be rightly disgusted.
how dare the downtrodden find a way to vent their hardship. fucking peasants.
Do they serve River Crab?
if jones is there, there will be crabs.
Yeah quite reasonable trying to poison people….. FFS what planet do you come from ?
Poison? I doubt very much whether minimum wage workers have poison for saliva.
Edit: now I see the problem, you think union worker and your brain sees a Komodo Dragon.
Don’t you know that tories are severely allergic to poor people?
Yeah because no viruses or other lurgies are spread by saliva …… oh wait on ?
So not poison then. Coming to work on a sick day just to spit in Not Petey’s coffee. Doesn’t ring true for me.
So hocking in someones drinks/food is OKish if you’re not sick ?
Just for future reference you don’t need to come in on a sick day to spread several very nasty viruses about but yeah keep digging yourself a hole you vile piece of filth.
Once more for the English comprehension challenged: No, adding bodily fluids to a meal is not ok .
I expect Not Petey’s unhinged reaction to my mentioning it has something to do with the engorged amygdala that afflicts a Tory. They dwell on morbidity and nausea, apparently.
Glad I’m not a Tory.
not Petey can’t distinguish between toxicology and medical microbiology. Sad.
not planet key…
since when is saliva poison?
you affront and some mythical story you tell yourself is laughable.
taxpayers funding a minister to help her husbands company is ok, but the suggestion someone might spit in a meal…. OUTRAGE?
Get over yourself Tracey.
The Collins beatup is a political and MSM turn for a couple of weeks and will be gone before the end of the month.
So fecking what she had a meal with the company who husband is a director of which exports NZ products into China whooped de do?
IMO Maurice Williamson’s indiscretion was far more serious but both will be minor hiccoughs in NZs political landscape in a couple of months let alone in a couple of years.
😆
Comical Petey. They’re going to bring down the government.
Comical OAB you live in a fucking fantasy land the only person who might bring down the government is Winston Peters.
“So fecking what she had a meal with the company who husband is a director of which exports NZ products into China whooped de do?”
its called a conflict of interest cretin – are you OK with a politician from ANY party using tax dollars to benefit their family and party donors?
jesus wept
🙄
Earth to Not Petey, and why would Winnie be in a position to bring down the government?
Because Judith and Maurice ruined their chances of getting close enough to 50%.
Baby steps, come on, you can do it…
We need better wingnuts.
froth not petey froth… like a rabid dog
plea se enlighten us withyour definition of
poverty of responsibility… poverty of truth j collins 2002
” highest ethical standards” cabinet manual
i dropped in for a cup of tea ” on the way to the airport”
j collins 2014
the documents show it was always a private dinner j key 2014
proven lies in oia documents released under oia in may 2014
you are so outraged at unions but consider collins benefitting her husband financially AND LYING is a display of highest ethical standards.
keep posting rabid wee acolyte, you look more foolish with each keystroke.
“its called a conflict of interest cretin – are you OK with a politician from ANY party using tax dollars to benefit their family and party donors?”
OK so if it had been let’s say Tim Grosser meeting with Orivida you wouldn’t be screeching ?
It’s no different to Annette sorting out the DHBs etc when she was Minister storm in a teacup stuff and soon forgotten by the masses and the MSM when they’ve got a new cause celebrate to create some angst over.
Sigh OAB …….. the Nats despite their most ambitious fantasies are and were never going to get over the line without another party (I don’t count the singe seat parties as parties) and the only one that could be would be Winston first.
to ask about tim groser just exposes your complete misunderstanding of the entire collins issue
A cause celebre with lots more episodes to elapse before it grinds to its boring and sorry conclusion, or better still, a full-blown and massively destructive leadership challenge.
I’m backing Judith. Judith is strong.
Nah not at all Tracey, all the indignant outrage over Collins is because she has the audacity to be friends with the owner of the company who exports NZ products to China and that her husband is one of the board members and she visited the offices while over in China oh noes oh noes the world is coming to an end …..
…… more sighing to OAB….. why would Judith get the leadership of the Nats when Key is preferred PM by several country miles ?
There, there not Petey, you’re getting all worked up. Relax, sit down and put your feet up, I’ve made you a nice milky cup of chai 😉
Didn’t anyone in the Power Elite watch Fight Club? I mean seriously, here’s the brief recap for the 0.1%:
People like Not Petey simply don’t understand the ultimate consequences of where the Power Elite is driving our civilisation at top speed. It’s not going to be pretty, for anyone, and we need to change course now.
finally …
ty CV,
“…why would Judith get the leadership of the Nats when Key is preferred PM by several country miles?”
Because Key is weak and doesn’t back his ministers, hiding behind Cabinet Manual “guidelines”. Judith is strong and looks after her friends.
Can you say this in mandarin?
Would you accept guavanese ?
If your bad faith spin on that commenter’s remark is to believed I’m pretty sure pigs will fly next.
“Sanctioned”. Yeah, really, no, you made it up.
I’ve known Unions sanction all types of vile shit, this would be no different, thankfully most of the cloth cap filth imported from the UK have either died, are in their dotage or are in irrelevant positions so there are less incidents these days.
No, the problem is English comprehension: you are confusing the alleged behaviour of what by your own somewhat fanciful description is a small group of individuals and pretending that represents official sanction. Like blaming The National Party for the behaviour of Judith Collins.
Has Judith been caking in the curry at Belamys ?
No, she’s been shitting in a much bigger nest.
you an d skinny could have been cut from the same cloth…
You are out of touch chap regarding good old English Unionist here in NZ.
I just read on my union feed that a South Island port stoush has just concluded with a fine win for the workers who manned up and took industrial action. Correct me if I’m wrong, I think the Union organiser is a former East Ender. A superb pedigree to be fronting any scrap with the bosses. A salute to you my comrade JK! To think the port boss buckled before even getting to mediation 🙂
Oh goodness me you wingnuts are touchy these days. Ok my little joke was in poor ‘taste’ however I must say your reaction was like someone dropped a weta down the front of your pants i.e squeamish and over excitable.
I hear the catering staff at Oravida HQ are even worse than unionists. They are communists!! I hope Judith didn’t swallow.
So what’s the game plan with the added protein Skinny and Bloke, Saliva, seamen or sh*t , all have a pretty good protein percentage, whats the standard practice for you guys?
Perhaps the unions employed this scrubber ?
http://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Granny.jpg
Yep , I must admit I did have a mental image of some aged, angry under achiever squating on the table and taking a dump in the curry, you know , just trying to make a point….
that says more about you rob, than skinnys real or imagined story above.
You should sit in on some more Labour caucus meetings – apparently some of the MPs are dynamite when they’re on the turps.
okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
Stop the press! Person gets drunk, runs mouth a bit!
another whale whore.
i hope you have never complained at a restaurant. apparently chefs can be quite upset. even the rich ones from the telly.
in the meantime the prime minister has lied in parliament, collins has lied…
” highest ethical standards”
the proof is in black and white, for those who choose to read.
Oh, am I being accused of condoning the disgusting practice now, Rob? “You guys” really are having a problem with English comprehension today.
The particular individual I am thinking of claimed to add saliva to the coffees they made for a particular politician. Still, the first rule of fight club is not to talk about fight club so who knows how widespread the practice is? After all, no-one likes a Tory.
“After all, no-one likes a Tory.”
What about other tories ?
And if that’s the case, on current polling what on earth would they be putting in Cunliffes coffee down at the tea shop ?
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b29_1367100542
it turns out some of the govt supporters cant read.
but mention bodily fluids and they go all downton abbey.
lying to cover ones misuse of office and taxpayer money to assist ones husband and friends is simply how one behaves for ones chums. fucking peasants.
there is poverty in this country but its not monetary… its a poverty of responsibility… a poverty of truth j collins 2002
i dropped by for a cup of tea on the way to the airport… it was a dinner with friends… it was a private dinner. j collins 2014
collins lied documents under oia 2014
key lied hansard may 2014
now, take your union hating bullshit and put it with your head, up your arses.
wah wah wah lives so unfair way way way everything will be greta when Labour and the greens save us wwah wwwhah … get a job Tracey you dozy hag.
😆
Another hostile fuckwit with his head firmly lodged up his arse.
Tracey’s profession is obvious to anyone who’s been paying attention.
do you actually have something to say or are you going to stick with proving you have trouble putting your pants on the right way?
“Tracey’s profession is obvious to anyone who’s been paying attention.”
Dung eater ?
Still pretending to be a doctor, higherstandard?
For an illustration of all that is ugly and ignorant about the tory, see not Petey’s comments above…..
And no doubt all your anger and perceived injustice in regards to this matter will stay with you to your grave. By the way who said I was union hating.
Tracey you have demonstrated that hate is all with you, dont let drive it drive you into the ground before your time.
While you bag others for hate I’m waiting to hear your explanation for your dishonest and hostile smear against yours truly; a simpleton’s mistake can easily lead to conflict, and you make lots
thats the market for ya
proof its a cc function?
Who are you Tracey the proof police?
Watch tonights news point and spray John Key’s cheesy face will be all over it.
jst asking. you made a definitive statement and i wondered what you based it on.
of course you could have written how you knew it was a cc function when you posted. i wont apologise for trying to tell the facts from the made up stuff.
do you think he will make the news for the fiber roll out or the cabinet club?
‘
John Key is on a roll. This Oravida coverup is taking on the now familar patina of mendacity we have seen in relation to John Key covering up such things as the Sky City deal, or the employment of Ian Fletcher, and and and . . .
. . . thanks John, I’m lovin’ it.
interesting questions from winston peters to woodhouse and subsequently tabled letters.
How much are you lovin it BLiP, you also spraying the protein around as well?
god, you are a worried little acolyte today.
Big deal, Robertson said something that was proven to be incorrect (was that a lie?) by Pete George and Mallard made up claims as well (was that a lie?) also it proves nothing except its collins office not collins herself
Back to the drawing board lefties
go read the documents and then read her maiden speech. she, unlike you, champions personal responsibility.
how much, if anything, do you think ms collins husband receives per annum from the five oravida companies upon which he serves as a director?
ive commented many times on my view of mr mallard and his tactics. i have yet to see you comment on whether you think collins conduct, bennetts lie the other day, and the strong possibility mr key lied to the house yesterday, meets the ” highest ethical standards” demanded/required by the cabinet manual?
Can you not see the corner Key is painting himself into Puckish Rogue? Have a look at Hansard. And Polity.
One little bit at a time. A weak Prime Minister. And Judith is strong.
he has started relying on pete george for his assertions… enough said?
Labour has nothing,all they’ve said is a mere rehash (or straight out lies) of what they’ve said before in the vain hope that Collins and/or Key will breakdown and quit
still not read the documents and hansard aye pucky…
“there is a poverty of responsibility… a poverty of truth…” j collins 2002
“highest ethical standards” cabinet manual
collins done nothing wrong
puckly roget 2014
meh if this is the best ammunition that labour have got along with the less than electrifying policy statements to date I’d expect the polls to improve for the Nats and Greens and get progressively more dire for Labour.
What sort of ammunition do you need for the death of a thousand cuts?
Ask Trevor and the rest of the ABCs, I’m sure they’ve got a substantive database.
Anyone but Collins? Get real, they’re dead meat, and she already knows their names.
havent you received todays memo?
the knife throwing and teeth gnashing is in the national caucus. key is a brave man to leave wellington.
tell us again petey how collins has done nothing wrong. tell us again that national giving jones a tax payer funded junket job makes labour look bad
your emperor is wanding around in singlet and undies, soon hewill be naked, but for now his ralph lauren gruds stand between him and total exposure.
if only collins would sign something to benefit a charity. now THAT would be worthy of weeks of outrage.
sadly she is unlikely to do anything that wont benefit herself, indirectly or directly.
and yet you are particularly rabid today… so much frothing at the mouth for someone so unworried about the lay of the land for national.
Judith will never quit, but Key has betrayed her twice now and he has to pay.
Were it a private dinner with good friends the elephant in the room is the border official. Had relevant business not have been discussed and I was a border official I would have been bored and probably have been too busy to have attended. Too much coincidence for the border official to attend a dinner without a definite purpose. Collins had a tight itinerary/schedule as well.
Were it an official meeting with a border official this breaches the cabinet manual as there is a conflict of interest.
The reason for being at the dinner is what Collins needs to face. Misleading parliament is a no no for a crown minister.
and the invite to the ambassador to join them.
Nah, there’s nothing suspicious about [redacted]’s presence per se: anyone can be friends.
What’s suspicious is that Oravida tried to set up an official meeting with [redacted] that turned into a “private” one when alarm bells started ringing at MFAT.
a friend who doesnt speak collins language. any suggestion an interpreter was there… not from what i have read.
the documents are a mixture of
moj
ministers office
minister
I agree, a dinner is either a private one or an official one, Collins made it an official, private one. I’d like to know what her definition of “private” is ?
It’s one where you can report back to the ambassador that nothing untoward was discussed and your staff confirm it. Despite the fact that neither them nor you speak Mandarin.
A private dinner would not require a person to report back anything to the ambassador.
Translation is not an issue for any language, as a lap top or a smart phone is all that is required to communicate.
Erm, it’s one where you all agree to call it “private” and everyone keeps a straight face?
Or, one where you hold it in a private room because [redacted] is conscious of the new president’s anti-corruption speech?
Or is it, one where you have to keep the details hidden from the New Zealand public because if they find out about it you’ll have to resign?
i thought that was a telling response by collins, that she reported to the ambassador ANYTHING about the private dinner with friends… makes no sense.
Do you know what the correspondence between Collins and the ambassador was prior to the dinner.
Perhaps the ambassador and his wife were invited due to the fact that a Chinese official was to be at the private dinner as well- as a safe guard. As they could not attend he may have asked to be informed about the happening’s at the dinner.
So she informed him.
“as a safe guard” – for whom?
And our Ambassador smelt the rat of the conflict of interest and wisely abstained by declining the invitation. Remember he is well informed by our diplomatic (commonly referred to as spy’s) group stationed over there.
or had another engagement?
williams gate, collins gate (on going ) now it looks like the storm is coming to woodhouse and donkey lies and lies and lies the stench and stink is growing. scandel!
The never ending story keeps on giving, I wonder which new piece of information labour or NZ First will introduce next week, and what will it be the week after. What requests to the OAG have the press got in at the moment to legitimise the information they already know. When will the most juicy bits come out? Three weeks before the election would be my guess. The NATS and the MSM where daring Labour to spill all there beans this week, they held their nerve and their ammunition for when it counts.
What is important is that the absolute belief and trust of the Key Administration is being eroded. Even those who do not follow the detail will begin to wonder. That would be good eh?
I think Key can squirm out of this.
The
dinnermeeting Collins and [redacted] attended was organised by Deyi (aka Stone) Shi after Collins’ official one fell through.Key is going to say they were two separate meetings (he’ll call them dinners), one of which never happened, and he was talking about the other one which was private because it was organised by Mr. Deyi.
Of course he was still lying and it will boost the official narrative: that he is dishonest and shady, but it’s all he’s got.
I still wonder if Key directed Collins to organise the dinner. It reeks of the way he does business.
Yay, Collins can stay!
😀
Had the border official not attended, there may have been no dinner to catch up with friends.
No one knows the level of english that the border official understands.
Nothing surprises me, Woodhouse and Liu had a minimum hour long meeting and Liu does not speak english. Also the minister went to Liu’s hotel.
Three strikes for the government this week. The $10,000,000 immigration entry has become a millstone.
Was Woodhouse’s visit before or after Liu roughed up his wife? Either way, I bet he’s regretting it now.
The visit occurred in 2012.
Wrong answer was given. Correct answer 14 months ago.
Thanks. Wasn’t suggesting Woodhouse knew about Liu’s domestic violence background prior to the odd meeting at the hotel. Never-the-less, it shows how cosy the very highest offices of our Government are with National party donors of sometimes questionable character.
Perhaps John Key, like all compulsive liars, has simply given up and is just running with his lies now. No longer cares.
Makes sense as pretty much everytime the subject of John Key’s honesty arises in various conversation the solid consensus is “dishonest. liar. bullshitter”
He doesn’t really have any other option I reckon. Foot to the floor til the gas runs out.
meanwhile pile on the cheese!
My reaction on reading the headline was ‘What? We need MORE proof?’
Sadly, we don’t. Still, good job pointing out this blatant example. Add it to the list…:-(