The TPPA day of shame

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, February 4th, 2016 - 224 comments
Categories: capitalism, class war, john key, national, same old national, trade - Tags:

TPPA dont sign protest

Today the Government will sign the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement at Sky City in Auckland. They know the agreement is very unpopular. They could have signed it overseas or down in Queenstown or next week but instead they chose to sign it at Sky City two days before Waitangi day.

The host they chose has received a law change worth $527 million for which it has to build a convention centre. The legislative concessions will increase human misery.

There is a big march planned today in Auckland at 12:00 pm. The Government probably brought forward the signing to 11:30 am so they could put their thumbs in their ears and say “nananana” to the many kiwis who will again express their displeasure.

The Government will reuse its spin lines and say that it is all about opening up trade with 40% of the world’s GDP.  Shame that we already trade with these nations and the extra trade that will result is marginal.

This statement by Alfred de Mayas, the UN Independent Expert on the promotion of a democratic and equitable international order provides some real insight into what is wrong here. He said:

Trade is not an end in itself, but must be seen in the context of the international human rights regime, which imposes binding legal obligations on States. Trade agreements are not ‘stand-alone’ legal regimes, but must conform with fundamental principles of international law, including transparency and accountability. They must not delay, circumvent, undermine or make impossible the fulfilment of human rights treaty obligations.

I am concerned that notwithstanding enormous opposition by civil society worldwide, twelve countries are about to sign an agreement, which is the product of secret negotiations without multi-stakeholder democratic consultation. The Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) is fundamentally flawed and should not be signed or ratified unless provision is made to guarantee the regulatory space of States.

If you want proof of how flawed the process is it took all mention of “climate change” out of the treaty.

The treaty is a farce. The Government is ramming it through even though it knows this. Time for everyone to make their voices heard.

Update (r0b): RNZ live coverage with John Campbell

224 comments on “The TPPA day of shame ”

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  1. Puckish Rogue 1
    4 February 2016 at 8:09 am

    Some friendly advice though, keep it peaceful or you’ll play right into Nationals hands (no that’s not reverse psychology)

    • weka 1.1
      4 February 2016 at 8:44 am

      🙄 a the concern troll.

      • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 9:03 am

        How is that trolling? I mean seriously, how? National want violent demonstrations so they can portray the protestors as nothing more than violent thugs that don’t care about the country.

        No you’re right I’m trolling so just go hard and cause mayhem instead, that’ll really get the message across

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 9:07 am

          Ah, I see you’ve started up the lying already.

        • weka 1.1.1.2
          4 February 2016 at 11:16 am

          I didn’t saying trolling, I said concern trolling. Look it up.

          • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1.2.1
            4 February 2016 at 11:49 am

            Well ok fair enough I concede the point however I’m not concern trolling because:

            “A concern troll is a person who participates in a debate posing as an actual or potential ally who simply has some concerns they need answered before they will ally themselves with a cause. In reality they are a critic.”

            There is no way I’m posing as an ally, no way I want to be an ally and I’m upfront about my thoughts on the left

            • weka 1.1.1.2.1.1
              4 February 2016 at 12:37 pm

              Try using google with intelligence instead of reading the first thing it spoon feeds you.

            • North 1.1.1.2.1.2
              4 February 2016 at 10:23 pm

              Who gave that fucked ‘box of chocolates’ defintion of a ‘concern troll” ? Concern trolls are fucks who have this bad buzz about everything but John Key and his excretia…. and purport to tell us they’re ‘us’ and can be trusted. And while loftily over us all they really wanna do is suck John Key’s cock. Cos’ they’re trash white boy cargo cultists. Sorry, graphic but true.

        • North 1.1.1.3
          4 February 2016 at 10:12 pm

          A rare spare fragment of understanding of your point there PR. We do know that the punk’d be delighted in a shitting pants sort of way if it turned ugly.

          John Key’s a cheap bitch !

      • Anne 1.1.2
        4 February 2016 at 9:05 am

        Good advice from Puckish Rogue.

        I’m picking there will be attempts to provoke violence among the protestors. The Nats are not even past planting a few ‘agent provocateurs’ among them to ensure it happens. By all means be loud and demonstrative but leave the violence to the other side – including from the police. Then the victims will have a leg to stand on after the event. That was the lessons learnt from the Springbok tour of 1981.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1
          4 February 2016 at 9:10 am

          It’s weasel words offered in bad faith from PR. In the event of violence he will offer it up as representative of “The Left” or some other garbage, having already set the terms for failure or success of the protest.

          He has as much relevance as a sparrow’s fart, because he’ll call failure no matter the outcome.

          • Puckish Rogue 1.1.2.1.1
            4 February 2016 at 9:19 am

            “In the event of violence he will offer it up as representative of “The Left”

            – Yes that’s it, that’s it exactly, you’ve got it.

            ” because he’ll call failure no matter the outcome.”

            – Again correct but its all about the degree of failure, you can’t expect this one protest will change anything (you don’t do you?) but as part of a larger action against the TPP it can help…if its peaceful

            I just don’t understand how you’re getting the details but missing the big picture, Its really simple, keep the protest peaceful and legal and National will have a lot less ammunition to counter the left with

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1.1.1
              4 February 2016 at 9:34 am

              Whereas if National sends thugs to disrupt the protest, you will help them manufacture ammunition against New Zealanders, and if the protest is peaceful, you will help National manufacture ammunition against New Zealanders.

              You don’t get to dictate the terms of success or otherwise, because you act from bias and malice.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                4 February 2016 at 9:40 am

                Cheek of you “manufacture ammunition against New Zealanders”

                You’ve already set your stall out, any violence will of course have been done by plants because its a peaceful protest

                Your hands are clean pfft

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  4 February 2016 at 5:40 pm

                  …and now, after the peaceful protest, haven’t you got some ammunition to deliver? My hands are dirty 😀

            • Stuart Munro 1.1.2.1.1.2
              4 February 2016 at 10:58 am

              You cannot expect to commit a major treason against the people of New Zealand without the probability of violence.

              With this act all pretence of common cause in the pursuit of public interest dies: the Right in New Zea;and are traitors and must expect to be treated as such.

              It won’t all be fluffy bunnies and teddy bears.

              • Puckish Rogue …
                4 February 2016 at 11:55 am

                “You cannot expect to commit a major treason against the people of New Zealand without the probability of violence.”

                – It is not major treason, you sound like you just want an excuse to commit violence

                “With this act all pretence of common cause in the pursuit of public interest dies: the Right in New Zea;and are traitors and must expect to be treated as such.”

                – Do you mean the lawfully elected government or people that voted them in?

                “It won’t all be fluffy bunnies and teddy bears.”

                – And no doubt a keyboard warrior (or is it social justice warrior?) like yourself will be at the vanguard at whatever it is you think you’re saying?

                • Stuart Munro …
                  4 February 2016 at 1:04 pm

                  When you find yourself on the scaffold, remember how you chose to betray the people of New Zealand – for they will not forget.

                  [lprent: curb yourself, or I will do expend some time and do it for you. We don’t like any threats of violence here. ]

        • marty mars 1.1.2.2
          4 February 2016 at 10:39 am

          not so sure about the puck but you have given good advice Anne. We learned the lessons from the tour and we learned some of the dirty tricks they use and will use.

          Personally I’m thinking the silent, shaming, back turning protests have huge impact – maybe not for today but as a longer term approach – whew I think it can work.

        • lprent 1.1.2.3
          4 February 2016 at 11:30 am

          And carry plenty of cameras to document anything that happens.

      • tinfoilhat 1.1.3
        4 February 2016 at 10:11 am

        Maybe so – it is still good advice.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2
      4 February 2016 at 9:05 am

      I won’t be at all surprised if there are a few who’d love to have a crack. Whatever they do will be completely unrepresentative of the opposition, and when you try to say otherwise, you’ll be lying.

      • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1
        4 February 2016 at 9:13 am

        All I’m saying is National want the protest to turn ugly, they want the protest to turn violent, that way the message is less TPP and more violent thugs

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 9:18 am

          Yes, we know that. We also know how to deal with thugs. We also know that whatever the outcome of the protest, or any other further action, you will say none of it matters, because you voted bought a table at Cabinet Club.

          So all you’re really saying is that you have a limited understanding of democracy, and you’ve chosen a side.

          • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1.1.1
            4 February 2016 at 9:29 am

            Really, the left want to talk about democracy. The left love democracy as long as its the left in power.

            John Key gains unprecedented levels of support (MMP speaking) but apparently he doesn’t have a mandate to do anything because sooo many people didn’t vote for him.

            He tells the country about the partial sell down of the power companies before the election, gets in but no apparently its anti-democratic because the left don’t want it

            He tells the country before the election about the TPP but again its anti-democratic because the left don’t want it

            The audacity of the left in NZ to talk of democracy is the height of hypocrisy and its one of the (many) reasons why National is in power and will be until at least 2020

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.1.1
              4 February 2016 at 9:37 am

              Nope, I didn’t say any of that. Nor does it reflect my thoughts on the matter.

              It’s just your sick parrot running its mouth.

            • Lanthanide 1.2.1.1.1.2
              4 February 2016 at 12:38 pm

              “but apparently he doesn’t have a mandate to do anything”

              No, he doesn’t get a mandate “to do anything”, emphasis on the *any*.

              Passing legislation in government is one thing, because it can be repealed or altered by future governments. Signing up to trade deals that curtail the sovereignty, when the negotiations were conducted in secret (unlike some other trade deals) and then not properly consulting or allowing debate on it is quite another.

              Any democratic government would be aiming for 75%+ votes in parliament in support of such a treaty. This government isn’t, because it isn’t democratic.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                4 February 2016 at 12:59 pm

                Yep. Government involves governance.

              • ropata …
                4 February 2016 at 3:30 pm

                Didn’t John Key once state early in his first term that “Parliament is Sovereign”? Obviously that was a lie.

                Today, the cabinet executive (or wtf it’s called) does what it likes without the bother of putting things to a vote in Parliament.

                What is now clearly apparent is that the people of NZ are *not* sovereign

        • Halfcrown 1.2.1.2
          4 February 2016 at 10:39 am

          “All I’m saying is National want the protest to turn ugly, they want the protest to turn violent,”

          You can say that again Puckish. Prat Henry was talking up a riot this morning. One got the impression that he was drooling at the mouth at the prospect of a violent protest and more or less praying for one so he could rave and rant tomorrow morning. Not that that prat needs any encouragement to rant shit. he does it all the time
          I thought Tod Mc Clay was an officer and a gentleman, prat Henry was trying to get him cornered into agreeing with him about the protesters, but Tod Mc Clay kept repeating that it was their democratic right to protest. He has gone up in my estimation I also feel Prof Jane Kelsey was also first class and fended off very well the shit prat Henry wanted to shovel her way.

          • lprent 1.2.1.2.1
            4 February 2016 at 11:03 am

            Henry is a pandering stupid fuckwit in love with his own voice.

          • Puckish Rogue 1.2.1.2.2
            4 February 2016 at 11:17 am

            Well yeah Henry wants a riot but for different reasons, controversy creates cash or if it bleeds it leads

            • Brendon Harre -Left wing Liberal 1.2.1.2.2.1
              4 February 2016 at 12:12 pm

              Also Paul sets up a bob each way story -if there are TPPA riots then Henry will say TPPA protesters are low life scum. If they don’t riot -then Henry will say the protest was muted, not supported by the public etc.

              Really he is a useless journalist -he can’t be bothered moving from his shock-jock methods to actually gathering some facts and presenting a clear description of what is happening -see Lprent opinion above.

              • greywarshark …
                4 February 2016 at 12:46 pm

                It was interesting to see a photo of Paul Henry in a book recording events in the NZ citizen nuclear protest by the now deceased judge Sir Peter Williams. Henry was I think piloting the protest boat.

                Sailed to Mururoa Atoll with a Greenpeace flotilla to protest against the resumption of French nuclear testing in 1995.

                Apparently Henry is a man for all seasons, likes to float on the surface, with no real anchor to principle.
                edited

        • Tracey 1.2.1.3
          4 February 2016 at 5:03 pm

          I wonder why though, given how sure they are it is a great deal. Hell they are SO sure it’s a great deal they decided NOT to put it to the test in Parliament, by letting all elected reps vote. THAT is how sure they are.

        • reason 1.2.1.4
          4 February 2016 at 6:21 pm

          And here was me thinking mike sabin looked like a national thug …. remember him? john key thought he was minister material (police?) and was sad to see him go ………..

          Or remember the glory days when Clint Rickards was Auckland police commander ……. I think he was a national party supporter and certainly made himself into the fist that fitted in John Banks glove when he was Mayor…

          I imagine ex-cop and Nat mp mark Mitchell would quite like to put the police dogs onto protesters who speak out against the TPPA, “bite em till they scream boys, bite till they scream” ………

          The police always seem to go a bit backwards and thuggish when the nats are in power ………….

          You’d have to be off you Tolley to deny that the standards of Banks, Collins, Sabin & bent key have infected the police to some degree ….

    • savenz 1.3
      4 February 2016 at 11:21 am

      @Puckish Rogue

      Saw the one news for the first time in years, on the eve of the TPPA signing, the leading story was someone firing at a police car (nobody hurt), then about the TPPA and whether or not John Key would get through for Waitangi. Clearly our MSM our on task here, protecting the government…. Nothing about what a croc the deal is or any talk of risks. No wonder nobody gets their information from or trusts the news anymore! Couldn’t bear to watch Story or Seven Sharp crap. Maybe Morrissey has an analysis. Used to love his verbatim snippets. Come on let us know for those that find it too vomitus to watch what they had on.

      TV3 not much better, I saw a snippet and from what I could see nobody from Cabinet were prepared to say how great TPPA was. Nothing from John Key at all about it. MSM was very focused on the blockade (not the deal itself) and respecting our foreigners coming to sign, Ha ha now the protesters are the news rather than concentrating on any depth on the deal.

      It was clear the Natz and MSM were framing it as a ‘Maori’ / ‘Mana’ Maori issue rather than showing the wide spread support against the signing.

      Clearly did not want audience to know Labour does NOT support it, or the Greens – too many votes to be lost!

      • Puckish Rogue 1.3.1
        4 February 2016 at 11:28 am

        Well I’m with you there on the news, I don’t watch it either.

        But when you said “Clearly did not want audience to know Labour does NOT support it” I’m assuming you mean apart from Helen Clark, David Shearer, Phil Goff or Mike Moore and probably any politicians they’ve happened to have mentored over the years

        • Brendon Harre -Left wing Liberal 1.3.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 12:16 pm

          2 out of 4 of those people are no longer active in the Labour Party. The 3rd is leaving and the 4th is in doubt too, unless he toes the party line.

          • Chooky 1.3.1.1.1
            4 February 2016 at 2:17 pm

            +100…”Helen Clark, David Shearer, Phil Goff or Mike Moore”…are all yesterday’s men and woman…and David Shearer was parachuted in and was utterly incompetent as a leader…

            the Labour Party under Andrew Little is at last beginning to look more like a Labour Party and an effective Opposition… and leading the next Government ….with its opposition to the TPPA

    • Tracey 1.4
      4 February 2016 at 5:01 pm

      Please post a link to the last protest in NZ which was NOT peaceful. You have fallen for the govt’s bait, hook, line and sinker

  2. Penny Bright 2
    4 February 2016 at 8:57 am

    I will be one of the thousands of New Zealanders who will be marching against the signing of the TPPA in a PEACEFUL ‘family-friendly’ one hour up Queen Street to QE2 Square Britomart – which is NOT going anywhere near Sky City.

    (Assemble at Aotea Square at 12 noon TODAY 4 February 2016 – ends 1pm QE2 Square Britomart).

    This PEACEFUL march has been organised by It’s Our Future – which has organised peaceful protests / rallies / public meetings / educational campaigns against the TPPA over the last five years.

    (I note that those ‘business lobbyists’ who support the TPPA have yet to organise any demonstration / rally where the PUBLIC (ordinary Kiwis) have ‘stood up to be counted’ to show PUBLIC support for the TPPA?

    Why is this?)
    ____________________________________________________

    March against TPPA on Thursday

    On Thursday 4th February, thousands of Kiwis will take action across New Zealand to register their protest against the government signing the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA).

    The march down Queen Street is likely to be huge. People are coming from across New Zealand and many Aucklanders will take a long lunchtime to exercise their democratic rights.

    It’s Our Future spokesperson Barry Coates said: “We invite concerned Kiwi’s to join us in a loud, colourful, non-violent, family-friendly march to make it clear that this government does not have a mandate to sign the TPPA in our names.”

    The march assembles at 12 midday on the Queen St side of Aotea Square, proceeds down Queen St and end with speeches and music at Britomart.

    “After six years of secret negotiations, we have finally seen the details of this agreement, and we now understand why the government was trying to hide the details. Research shows the TPPA will give new rights to litigious foreign corporations, undermining the rights of government to regulate in the public interest and overriding our judiciary”.

    “People are angry and understandably so. Our sovereignty, democracy, our economy, the environment, public health, the rights of workers, public services, local government, small business and the protection of Te Tiriti o Waitangi would all be put at risk by this agreement,” explained Barry Coates.

    “Proponents of the TPPA are sounding increasingly desperate. They know that Kiwis don’t buy the spin and the slogans. They want the facts, and the facts say that the TPPA is not in our interests.”

    Signing is not the final step. Signing is largely symbolic and the TPPA does not come into force until countries accounting for 85% of combined GNP ratify the agreement. This is likely to take at least two years, if ever. Ratification is looking shaky in the US, Canada and other countries.

    The TPPA will not come into force until it is ratified by Congress and until New Zealand’s legislation has been ‘certified’ by the US administration. New Zealand and Australian governments will come under pressure during discussions on Thursday to give even more concessions over data exclusivity for biologic medicines and to undertake not to use the negotiated exception from investor-state settlement for cases involving tobacco control.

    The TPPA is opposed by opposition political parties – Labour, Greens, NZ First and the Maori Party – and by most New Zealanders, according to a TV3/Reid Research public opinion poll last November. It will be a central issue for the next election.

    There will be marches and actions on Thursday in cities including Waitangi, Whangarei, Auckland, Tauranga, Hastings, Taupo, Christchurch, Dunedin and Invercargill. These build on the huge attendance at the speakers’ tour across the four main centres last week, and protests in Nelson, Blenheim, Palmerston North, New Plymouth, Raglan and other cities and towns across New Zealand last weekend.

    The message from these marches and rallies has been: Don’t Sign the TPPA!

    ENDS

    Notes

    February 4th will see trade ministers from around the Pacific Rim converge on Auckland to sign the Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement (TPPA).

    The Queen St march will not go to Sky City, and will be non-violent, passionate and inclusive of all.

    Barry Coates, It’s Our Future spokesperson …… or itsourfuturenz.org.nz

    For further information, including research papers, visit http://www.itsourfuture.org.nz
    ________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
    (Who opposes New Zealand signing the TPPA).

    • Puckish Rogue 2.1
      4 February 2016 at 9:04 am

      Because we’re mostly working and we give our support where it counts, at the voting booths

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 9:13 am

        we give our support where it counts, at Cabinet Club.

        FIFY.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.1.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 9:34 am

          Yeah of course its always about the money isn’t it, easier to blame it on the money rather then blame the luck lustre candidates that Labour keep putting up, rather then blame the infighting and back stabbing that’s been the hallmark of Labour ever since Helen Clark left, rather then blame the negativity even when every other indicator disagrees with you

          Naah its always the money…

          • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1.1.1
            4 February 2016 at 3:03 pm

            It’s your job to bag Labour. As a Green voter I wish them all the best.

    • Marcus50 2.2
      4 February 2016 at 10:43 pm

      Penny
      Such a long diatribe and not one explanation of what in the ttppa you actually object to. What specific parts of the tppa are so onerous that they outweigh the long term trade benefit? Like so many protesting today you have simply become a grievance junkey that is looking for a cause without too much of a clue what your protesting about.

      Interestingly the majority of protestor interviewed today could not articulate what it was they were objecting to. It was laughable.

  3. nzsage 3
    4 February 2016 at 9:20 am

    I see some in the MSM are calling it a “Day of History”, I prefer a “Day of Treachery”.

    • Sabine 3.1
      4 February 2016 at 9:34 am

      t’is a day of historic treachery indeed.

      • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 9:35 am

        I agree, economic treachery on the part of the protestors

        • One Two 3.1.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 9:44 am

          Is it self gratifying to be dominating this thread ?

          Small minds occupy small spaces with man made constructs such as economics

          Smaller minds than that, use antagonism

        • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.2
          4 February 2016 at 11:01 am

          No – the traitor is you.

          Democracy requires that you not keep secrets from the people, and that you listen to their instructions, not sign away our wealth and our sovereignty.

          The failed Key government are traitors – and you, their minion, are also a traitor.

          • Puckish Rogue 3.1.1.2.1
            4 February 2016 at 11:21 am

            National said before the election this is what they were planning on doing so how exactly were they hiding it

            and as for being a traitor, well that’s a massive joke

            • McFlock 3.1.1.2.1.1
              4 February 2016 at 11:34 am

              The released the text before the election? No?
              That’s how they hid it.

            • Stuart Munro 3.1.1.2.1.2
              4 February 2016 at 1:05 pm

              Laugh it up traitor.

            • Tracey 3.1.1.2.1.3
              4 February 2016 at 5:05 pm

              By not being transparent on what they might sign up to. Is this really so hard for you to grasp?

              other countries have decided to let their parliament’s vote on it. Why not ours. that is the anti democratic bit. I didnt think it was rocket science.

        • Foreign waka 3.1.1.3
          4 February 2016 at 8:43 pm

          RP – you need to understand the difference between a democratic country and a shareholding company. The first ought to be governed by the peoples choice (representing) and the latter is run by a hand full of people for the gain of a selected few.
          Oligarchies, dictatorships and corporatocracies do subscribe to a similar approach such as the second model.
          Maybe there are advantages to the trade agreement, but as every deal this one will have its give an take game. With that in mind and the information thus far the give is indeed a high price to pay as the democratic state ceases to exist either way.
          I think this deal should have been better explained by the (arrogant) leaders, people educated and called to vote in a binding referendum.
          PS – the little – not agreed on – flag pin on J K jacket just took the cake. Is he representing a different country? It maybe a naive move (I doubt this) but completely inappropriate when representing a country donning the wrong flag. Imagine if President Obama would wear a fantasy flag instead of the Union Jack.

  4. Citizens Resistance 4
    4 February 2016 at 9:21 am

    The rise up of people showing their concerns by being prepared to hit the streets of Cities and Towns is good for democracy. The more people get informed on the perils of signing such trade agreements heavily weighted in favour of multi national corporations the better.

    The symbolic signing of the TPPA maybe today with mass numbers of Kiwi’s hitting the bricks in protest in Auckland City, excellent. The fight will continue with further rallies opposing the ratification. Here is a good rally organised for tomorrow;

    https://www.facebook.com/events/1661619914091993/

  5. Skinny 5
    4 February 2016 at 9:26 am

    The rise up of people showing their concerns by being prepared to hit the streets of Cities and Towns is good for democracy. The more people get informed on the perils of signing such trade agreements heavily weighted in favour of multi national corporations the better.

    The symbolic signing of the TPPA maybe today with mass numbers of Kiwi’s hitting the bricks in protest in Auckland City. The fight continues with further rallies opposing the ratification. Here is a good rally organised for tomorrow with Peters, Genter and Clark guest speaking;

    https://www.facebook.com/events/1661619914091993/

    • cogito 5.1
      4 February 2016 at 10:33 am

      Hopefully today’s TPPA signing will be the moment that the people of this country finally get the guts to show their collective rear ends to Key and this govt and demand change. If so, it will be historic. Bring it on.

    • alwyn 6.1
      4 February 2016 at 1:46 pm

      “Open Letter From New Zealand”
      I presume you do live here so the “letter” could be said to come from New Zealand.
      It does sound much more pretentious than that though, as if you really thought you were speaking for everyone rather than just one little unimportant person.

      Alternatively I suppose you could be like a person I once knew who used to sign his name as being “Norman New Zealand”.
      You don’t happen to be the Primate of the Anglican Church in New Zealand by any chance?

      • travellerev 6.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 4:30 pm

        Alwyn, if you took the time to read the post you would have seen I wrote from 1 person singular.

        • alwyn 6.1.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 5:28 pm

          But I did read it. That is how I knew what you had written.
          It still seemed to be an incredibly arrogant title though, and an equally conceited viewpoint you were pushing. First person or not.
          “I also want you to know that most people are opposed etc”.
          You mean that you and a few mates don’t want it.

  8. Pasupial 8
    4 February 2016 at 10:22 am

    I’ve been following the Waata radio (mostly music so far)/ Bradbury image stream on TDB (autoplays on home page). A bit concerned about these balaclavas (though the Tino Rangatiratanga flag cape is nifty):

    https://twitter.com/CitizenBomber/status/694980688441835520/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Good to see the international news media presence, they will be less susceptible to ShonKey lies:

    https://twitter.com/CitizenBomber/status/694988771629006848/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    Also this TPPANoWay twitter thread (for those who can’t endure Bradbury – RNZ stream not working for me even with adblock off, imagine too much demand, can still see the thread though):

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/TPPANoWay?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc^tfw

  9. lprent 9
    4 February 2016 at 10:49 am

    Pretty damn extensive protest at at sky city.

    A lot of police…

  10. lprent 10
    4 February 2016 at 11:01 am

    Peaceful but noisy protest. Nice atmosphere.

    Going past the police station there were police vehicles down the whole of the street.

  11. Sabine 11
    4 February 2016 at 11:03 am

    what you reckon, is PR paid per comment or per hour? And is he getting a bonus for working today.

    Loving the updates, sadly i am working. But friends of mine are in the melee and I hope that they are having fun today. The twitter feed is awesome.

  12. Sp OliviaRichard Christie 12
    4 February 2016 at 11:42 am

    I’m disappointed RNZ is running a partisan question/answer exercise using only pro-TPP economist Robert Scollay. Who are they working for.

  13. Pasupial 13
    4 February 2016 at 11:53 am

    Ugh! Just watching Key smirk as he poses to shake the hands of each country’s signer. Up to Peru now. So creepy!!

    On the up side, at least the RNZ stream is working now and I got to see a bit of the Campbell walk and talk.

  14. ropata 14
    4 February 2016 at 11:55 am

    Just watched 500 protestors run up Fanshawe St, past Victoria Park and heading for the motorway.
    Wish I was there but I’m stuck in the office and my workmates are showing their nasty side.
    Now the cops have blocked the Fanshawe/Beaumont St. intersection and started moving people on.

    Awful comments from my workmates
    “shoot the protestors”
    “they are a rabble with no jobs”
    “who gives a fuck about it, I need my money”
    “what are they protesting anyway?”
    “these fools have no clue, I saw one interviewed on TV”

    • Expat 14.1
      4 February 2016 at 12:04 pm

      ropata

      What you describe of your work colleagues is a sad indictment of the influence from this govt, how society has changed so much over the last 6 or 7 years, the result of absolute divisiveness.

      • ropata 14.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 12:15 pm

        it’s the naked disdain and ignorant prejudice that really offends me.

        and then one of them asked me to lunch. “sorry mate your comments just made me feel sick, so no I can’t go to lunch”

        the comfortable middle class doesn’t give a shit about anything, until their privilege is challenged

        • Expat 14.1.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 2:48 pm

          “the comfortable middle class doesn’t give a shit about anything, until their privilege is challenged”

          Sounds like OZ under Howard, especially the “comfortable” bit, only problem was, he took the country backwards while the rest of the world was moving forwards, and now their still trying to catch up.

          The only major difference was Howard banked $50b, where as NZ now owes $120b.

  15. Macro 15
    4 February 2016 at 11:59 am

    Who would want to block off the Hobson Street motor way off ramps?
    Anti -TPPA protestors?
    Idiots if they were…
    How many anti- TPPA protestors were prevented from joining them by their actions?
    And a very good way to get off-side with the general public – no way to win friends and influence people that stupid action. Auckland traffic is bad enough without creating more trouble for people needing to go about their business.

    • Sp OliviaRichard Christie 15.1
      4 February 2016 at 12:12 pm

      +100%, a very poor tactic

    • ropata 15.2
      4 February 2016 at 12:27 pm

      The idea of protest is to disrupt normal life and send a message. Traffic will probably be much worse after the TPPA comes in and we get floods of crappy cars and the corporations sue the NZ Government or Auckland CouncIl for investing in public transport.

      Auckland traffic is bad because of shitty and corrupt leadership fostering a car reliant city. Having people on streets was the historical norm for every city everywhere in history until the advent of the motor car.

  16. lprent 16
    4 February 2016 at 12:00 pm

    Down at the protest on queen street. Looks like streets blocked.

  17. greywarshark 17
    4 February 2016 at 12:03 pm

    Looking at the video from RADIONZ. The lineup could just as easily be those of waxwork models. Why bother to attend meetings where everything is already decided, done and dusted. Send the waxwork! And Key with his usual sincere smile. Someone in the audience who carried on the clapping after others had ceased – Michelle Boag? Key groupie without peer (or for the lady so finely educated, perhaps, sans pareil?)

  18. Gosman 18
    4 February 2016 at 12:28 pm

    Doesn’t look like the Police are smashing protestors heads together. Seems like the cunning plan by National to use this as a law and order issue has failed /sarc

    • greywarshark 18.1
      4 February 2016 at 12:50 pm

      No protesters hurt Gosman. That’s good news. Keep watching and reporting any violence and damage from either protesters or police please. It would be good to have an observant observer’s report.

  19. lprent 19
    4 February 2016 at 12:37 pm

    The vanguard of the queen street protest, a haka is just awesome. Well organised despite the police screwing up on clearing the road.

    • Jones 19.1
      4 February 2016 at 6:57 pm

      From what I saw the Police were pretty much non-existent on the Queen St march (I think I counted about 5…) leaving it mostly to Maori Wardens to control the crowd. The Police were focussed around Sky City. I counted 40+ on the Federal St side of Sky City and a lesser number on Albert St.

      I thought the Maori war party leading the march was a nice touch. Visually powerful.

  20. cogito 20
    4 February 2016 at 12:56 pm

    From the BBC:

    “Ambitious TPP trade deal signed”
    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-35480600

    “The ambitious Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) has been formally signed in Auckland even as the US struggles to get the pact ratified in Congress.”

    No other mention of NZ. No mention of the protests or of John Key. We are just fodder.

  21. Gosman 21
    4 February 2016 at 12:57 pm

    From an inclusitivity point of view I would be worried if I was a protest organizer. There seems to be a preponderance of Maori at the march. It would have been more effective to highlight a broader base of groups opposed.

    • lprent 21.1
      4 February 2016 at 1:11 pm

      There are, Maori are at the forefront. There are just a shortage of idiot dickheads like you here.

      • lprent 21.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 1:14 pm

        Have say that the wardens are doing a good job of getting the idiots off the roofs of the bus shelters. Police are doing the right thing and letting them handle it.

      • Gosman 21.1.2
        4 February 2016 at 1:15 pm

        I’m pretty confident there are more than a fair share of those present.

    • Lanthanide 21.2
      4 February 2016 at 1:15 pm

      Maori have been screwed over by a treaty before (as we will shortly be getting a day off to remember).

      Once bitten, twice shy.

      Although actually Maori have been bitten more like one million times, not just once. But that doesn’t sound as catchy.

    • Macro 21.3
      4 February 2016 at 1:30 pm

      Maori actually understand what it is this is all about – idiots like you however have still to find out.

    • Tracey 21.4
      4 February 2016 at 5:08 pm

      It was a diverse crowd, you clearly weren’t there

      • Rosemary McDonald 21.4.1
        4 February 2016 at 7:22 pm

        “It was a diverse crowd,”

        That, Tracey, would be the understatement of the year!

        What an awesomely eclectic bunch of misinformed politically irrelevant New Zealanders.

        We were somewhere in the middle, and only appreciate the sheer size of the march now we’re home and can see the photos.

        We were nearly stymied in our effort to participate courtesy of the bus drivers strike and the misinformation put out about when the last buses were running. We had to park our large vehicle in the Jellico St car park and the plan was to get the bus up to Aotea Square. Buses were stopping to let off passengers but not to pick any up. I was not looking forward to having to push Himself in his wheelchair all the way from the Wynyard Quarter to Aotea Square. (not without a portable defibrillator any way!)
        We were saved, by a true gentleman who bent the rules just a little bit when he heard we were going to the march. What a truly decent human being.

        And despite the traffic chaos the media were beefing up…we left the march at the Viaduct so we could head back to the motorway south. Took us 20 minutes from Beaumont St to the Drury BP…best run down the Southern Motorway ever!

        Good work today people…

  22. Mosa 22
    4 February 2016 at 1:15 pm

    When will kiwis come to their senses and demand a GENERAL ELECTION before DONKEY outlaws them!!

    • Lanthanide 22.1
      4 February 2016 at 1:20 pm

      Can’t tell if trolling or serious; either way you’re an idiot.

      • greywarshark 22.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 3:15 pm

        Are you calling Mosa an idiot Lanthanide? If so what about staying away from your keys for a while and let other people have an opinion, that mightn’t be one that you would espouse. FGS stop trying to prevent people expressing their views when they aren’t foul or violent, or with OTT language.

      • Mosa 22.1.2
        5 February 2016 at 9:28 am

        Hit a nerve there!

        • Lanthanide 22.1.2.1
          5 February 2016 at 10:29 am

          Not really, I just think such stupid conspiratorial views as yours should be labelled what they clearly are – stupid.

    • Puckish Rogue 22.2
      4 February 2016 at 1:21 pm

      Why would John Key outlaw elections?

    • cogito 22.3
      4 February 2016 at 1:27 pm

      I prefer to see Key go down slowly and painfully bit by bit and take the rest of them down with him.

    • ropata 22.4
      4 February 2016 at 1:39 pm

      They won’t be outlawed, elections are a useful veneer over our farcical “democracy”.
      They help to reassure the people, while corporations pillage and plunder.

      • Puckish Rogue 22.4.1
        4 February 2016 at 1:51 pm

        Would you say the same thing if Labour win power at the next election?

        • alwyn 22.4.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 1:53 pm

          The poor chap doesn’t look as if he will get the chance. Maybe 2020 if they can get themselves sorted out.

        • ropata 22.4.1.2
          4 February 2016 at 3:02 pm

          absolutely i would make similar comments if Labour pisses me off.

          for the last 4 decades kiwis have been trying to stop neoliberal arsewipes selling off our public assets but we are continually betrayed by both sides of the House

          • Puckish Rogue 22.4.1.2.1
            4 February 2016 at 3:11 pm

            Yet kiwis keep selecting and electing the politicians…ever get the feeling you’ve lost the battle and the war?

            • ropata 22.4.1.2.1.1
              4 February 2016 at 3:41 pm

              gotta stick to your values/integrity mate even if it looks unpopular at the moment. because I believe left wing values are morally, socially and economically superior to the neoliberal bullshit that we are spoonfed daily by the MSM

              when you look at what’s happening in the US and UK – – countries further down the right wing track than NZ – – you see popular left wing movements gaining mass appeal and there’s a glimmer of hope.

  23. Gosman 23
    4 February 2016 at 1:20 pm

    The most effective recent protest against this government’s policies was against the proposal to open up parts of the conservation estate to mining. The reason it was effective was that the protest movement was broad based. The National party realized they were on a vote loser and changed their policy. That is not the case with this anti-TPPA March. It is pretty much the usual suspects but in larger numbers. John Campbell didn’t interview anyone who was inspired by this issue to march against National for the first time.

    • Sacha 23.1
      4 February 2016 at 2:10 pm

      The national park miniing protest was well-organised by a small group of established eco organisations drawing on experienced protestors with a very simple call to action. TPP is far more complex.

  24. Tarquin 24
    4 February 2016 at 1:37 pm

    I see the protesters have “taken” at least eight intersections and police are warning people to watch for protesters leaping out in front of them. Sounds like a wonderful way to win friends and influence people.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 24.1
      4 February 2016 at 2:09 pm

      What would you know about it? I doubt anything they do is going to change a mindless parrot’s lines.

      • Tarquin 24.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 2:24 pm

        I made a simple observation. I agree with the right to protest but question if this is the best way. You do your your usual trick and reply with a juvenile line that tells us all what a close minded twat you really are. This is the major reason I rarely comment and am sure others think the same. You do this site no favours. Brain dead wankers like yourself belong in an echo chamber.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 24.1.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 2:36 pm

          You made a sarcastic remark which clearly indicates that you’ve taken a side. All demonstrations involve disruption to daily routines, why would this one be any different?

          Was it OK for “fart tax” protests to slow down traffic?

          • Tarquin 24.1.1.1.1
            4 February 2016 at 2:43 pm

            The right to demonstrate does not give you the right to deliberately close roads. Another left footed own goal.

  25. Magisterium 25
    4 February 2016 at 2:06 pm

    Maybe a pakeha kid wearing Asian-manufactured clothes bearing the logos of American sportswear companies and sipping water sold by Coca-Cola, who admits on camera to not really understanding the TPPA, is not the best person to represent the protest movement.

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/tpp-protester-admits-to-reporter-he-doesnt-know-the-gist-of-it

    • Puckish Rogue 25.1
      4 February 2016 at 2:19 pm

      Probably the best representative of the protest

      • greywarshark 25.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 3:21 pm

        Probably the best protest representative FOR TVONE’S PURPOSE. Which is likely to have a 40degree right wing lean (any more and they’d fall over). The idea always, always, is to present the protesters as a bunch of mindless, know nothings who have been promised a beer if they turn up.

      • Tracey 25.1.2
        4 February 2016 at 5:11 pm

        I doubt you could do more than spout limited memes on the TPP. People in glass houses.

    • Expat 25.2
      4 February 2016 at 2:33 pm

      Pretty anecdotal to use one person as an example, lets not forget last years survey that identified NZ as the most ignorant western country in the world, over 54% didn’t know any thing about the situation of their own country, I wonder who they voted for?

      • Magisterium 25.2.1
        4 February 2016 at 4:04 pm

        lets not forget last years survey that identified NZ as the most ignorant western country in the world, over 54% didn’t know any thing about the situation of their own country

        Let’s not forget that the survey found the thing New Zealanders are ignorant about is how good things are in NZ. The survey’s result was not that New Zealanders “didn’t know anything about the situation of their own country”; rather it found that New Zealanders think things are worse than they actually are.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11557000

    • ropata 25.3
      4 February 2016 at 3:09 pm

      of course TVNZ doesn’t want to interview Jane Kelsey or the Law Society or Sue Bradford or report on the UN analysis or polling numbers or petitions because that doesn’t fit the approved NatCorp™ PR narrative

    • weka 25.4
      4 February 2016 at 3:34 pm

      He’s a young NZer who understands that the TPPA is going to ruin this country and his life in it. What makes you think he’s the wrong person to express is opinion?

  26. doug stuart 26
    4 February 2016 at 2:06 pm

    good way to get support, block roads and piss everyone off.

  27. Jenny Kirk 27
    4 February 2016 at 2:10 pm

    Radio NZ – sorry RNZ – has been live-streaming John Campbell and his camera-man Alex throughout the major protest going down Queen St. Leading it are warriors from Ngati Whatua – JC asked a woman who seemed to be directing them who they were.
    If I got it right – these were the people who normally do the big powhiri for important guests to Auckland and NZ . They were impressive. And if that is who they were, then this was a big slap in the face to John Key to have them leading the protest rather than welcoming his guests.

    • Sabine 27.1
      4 February 2016 at 2:14 pm

      is there footage of them leading the march.

      • Jenny Kirk 27.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 4:51 pm

        Yes. RNZ has up on its page a series of photos – not a video – of the warriors.

        And I see John Key has just now announced he won’t be attending Waitangi. This
        might be a part of his reasoning – or an answer back to them – or an attempt to whip up a bit of a racist backlash. (He’s using the excuse that he doesn’t know if he’s allowed to speak or not). He might also be genuinely surprised at the numbers who protested, and be a bit scared to go to Waitangi.

        What was also interesting watching the RNZ livestream was the huge number of young people who took part. Young – 20s to 30s – is what I mean.

    • Tracey 27.2
      4 February 2016 at 5:14 pm

      Remember when Clark was upset at not being able to speak on the Marae? I seem to recall the opponents of her government relished that and blah blah blah…. but now the shoe is on the other foot. I wonder if Key didn’t decide over a week ago he wasn’t going to go, the rest has been spin.

  28. Sabine 28
    4 February 2016 at 2:11 pm

    so many people came to town
    so many people had fun

    so many people,
    so little rioting

    poor Henry, Matthew and consorts
    all waiting for a riot
    but no one came to the party

    poo poo poo

  29. RTM 29
    4 February 2016 at 2:13 pm

    TRadical history repeats? This week, in the build-up to the signing to the TPPA, strange machines were photographed moving through central Auckland. Are they an echo of the revolutionary year of 1913? http://readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2016/02/strange-beasts-on-queen-street.html

    • Jenny Kirk 29.1
      4 February 2016 at 4:53 pm

      RTM – I read somewhere that they were Singapore armaments returning via Port of Auckland to Singapore after some joint defence exercises. Can’t give you a link – don’t remember where I read this.

  30. The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 30
    4 February 2016 at 2:18 pm

    If you don’t like the TPP (and it seems you don’t) why not elect a Labour government and have them give notice of our withdrawal in accordance with the terms of the TPP?

    • Puckish Rogue 30.1
      4 February 2016 at 2:25 pm

      I guess the main problem with that is you’d have to put together a Labour government worth electing so its probably easier to try to force change through protest then win an election

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 30.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 2:28 pm

        That’s why this hysterical sovereignty bullshit is so overblown. We can get out on six months notice at any time.

        • Puckish Rogue 30.1.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 2:35 pm

          I think this is less about about anti TPP and more about anti John Key

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 30.1.1.1.1
            4 February 2016 at 2:49 pm

            You’ll never get the urine smell out of those sheets.

            • greywarshark 30.1.1.1.1.1
              4 February 2016 at 3:26 pm

              What a duo, with but a single mind. The mud pie twins. As buskers you’d probably go well and give people an enormous amount of pleasure dirtying your faces. Though cream pies would be okay too, but might be a bit greasy. Gormless and Puckish. The names together have a certain macabre ring.

        • Lanthanide 30.1.1.2
          4 February 2016 at 5:05 pm

          1. That doesn’t help if you’ve already got an ISDS suit against you.
          2. It’s expensive to pull out of treaties; all sorts of companies that have been built up to rely on the provisions of the treaty would be screwed if the country were to pull out.

          So this whole “pull out at any time” thing is the same as the Black Knight claiming he only had a flesh wound.

          Basically election 2017 is the last time we can pull out; any later than that and it’ll cause too much disruption.

          • Tracey 30.1.1.2.1
            4 February 2016 at 5:16 pm

            Well said.

            This is what happens when people latch onto Hooten or similar without an actual understanding, and repeat. They get hoist on their own petard.

          • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 30.1.1.2.2
            4 February 2016 at 7:27 pm

            Not to mention that all of the companies in other countries will be able to trade with 800 million people we will be excluded from trading with. You’ve convinced me: we’re much better staying in it.

            • Lanthanide 30.1.1.2.2.1
              4 February 2016 at 7:34 pm

              So which countries in the TPPA do we not already trade with, exactly?

              • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                4 February 2016 at 9:30 pm

                We may be able to trade but on what terms? I know it’s hard to keep in mind with all the “selling out our grandchildren” bullshit but the main purpose of the TPP is to reduce barriers to trade, like tariffs. So, we may be able to sell our goods in these markets without the TPP but Australia won’t have a tariff and we will. And then, we’ll be fucked.

                You must be getting sick of the hysteria. It’s just so hopelessly detached from reality.

                • ropata …
                  4 February 2016 at 9:58 pm

                  Far out you really have been sucked into the Matrix, if you think the TPPA is actually about trade. Here’s that extreme hotbed of left wing radicals, the NZ Herald:

                  • Tim Hazledine: Making world safe for big business
                  • Raybon Kan: TPP – what could go wrong?
                  • Bryan Gould: True origins of TPP lie in protecting profits

                • In Vino …
                  4 February 2016 at 10:18 pm

                  Bollocks They are all retaining the tariffs we want gone. Some “Free Trade” agreement. Remember what Free Trade actually means – no tariffs? Australia and NZ will fare much the same either way, Trust me, I know. My first name is John.

                • Lanthanide …
                  5 February 2016 at 10:30 am

                  So actually we trade with all of them, then.

                  So we won’t lose access to 800 million people if we’re excluded from the TPP, like you said right here:

                  “[the] 800 million people we will be excluded from trading with”

                  I give you a D- must try harder.

                  • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                    5 February 2016 at 10:56 am

                    We can try selling to them. They will not buy because the goods from countries in the TPP will be cheaper.

                    You win the petty pedantry prize but you lose the I can follow basic reasoning prize.

                    [lprent: There was a reason why I downgraded your handle to “Gormless fool”. It was because you have a long held reputation for vagueness, idiotic hyperbole and a gormless lack of precision in your statements. You also have a habit of being a pedant about any imprecision in the comments of other people. I do realize you would prefer to only use that particular PR tactic yourself, but that isn’t going to happen here. Perhaps you could just be a better editor on your comments in the first place rather than wasting the time of others in pointing out the basic flaws in the lack of precision in your deliberately vague language? ]

                    • pat …
                      5 February 2016 at 11:10 am

                      using that logic nobody would buy anything except the least expensive item ever….so we are all driving Chery J3’s and eating 2 minute noodles and living in unfurnished converted containers (i know some may aspire to that)….the fact is even with the (slightly) reduced tariffs many of our exports may still be cheaper….a far larger determining factor will be exchange rate and the case can be made that it will weaken should we remove ourselves from TPPA.
                      The case for niche export markets fits well with our scale and the oft stated goal of higher value items with greater return by small to med enterprises which make up the bulk of NZ businesses….these lend themselves to premium pricing

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      5 February 2016 at 11:14 am

                      Pat. You are an idiot. The premium would go to the government charging the tariff. Our competitors inside the TPP would not have to pay this tariff.

                      If you want to compete with the rest of the world on this basis get ready for a drop in the standard of living.

                    • pat …
                      5 February 2016 at 11:29 am

                      I see your bid of idiot, and raise(?) you one moron…….yes the tariff goes to the destination government and they can continue to take said tax, however in case you hadn’t realized we are currently competing in many of these markets WITH the tariffs against other parties not subject to them (think NAFTA) ….and as a little aside there is also the (not) so little matter of quotas….both of which don’t disappear under TPPA but are merely tweeked……it may pay for you to do a little research

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      5 February 2016 at 12:09 pm

                      Let’s take this in steps. If the tariff is removed are we likely to sell A. more; or B. fewer of our products?

                    • pat …
                      5 February 2016 at 12:15 pm

                      step 1) how high is the tariff?
                      step 2) what is the demand for the product?
                      step 3) what is the supply level of the product?
                      step 4) what is the cost of production and transport?
                      step 5) what is the exchange rate?
                      step 6) what is the relative quality/desireability of the product
                      step 7) are you starting to get the picture?

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      5 February 2016 at 12:17 pm

                      No Pat, you really don’t need to know the answers to you questions to answer mine.

                    • pat …
                      5 February 2016 at 12:26 pm

                      ok Gormless i’ll play your simplistic silly bugger game….if the demand is there the expectation is you may sell more (provided you can supply more) but remember the same tariff reductions also apply to 11 other countries who may be more efficient at producing said items ….so effectively a race to the bottom of low return ….gee sounds a bit like milk powder doesn’t it?

                      just one more thing to think about before i go….of the 12 TPPA signatories which country has the least advantage in economy of scale?

                    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell …
                      5 February 2016 at 12:32 pm

                      So, let’s stay out thereby making ourselves even more uncompetitive? Brilliant plan.

                    • Lanthanide …
                      5 February 2016 at 2:31 pm

                      “So, let’s stay out thereby making ourselves even more uncompetitive? Brilliant plan.”

                      You, on the other hand, would apparently happily take any tiny tidbits tariff reductions that are being offered up, and completely ignore the costs that are associated with the deal, such as increased price of medicines, being vulnerable to ISDS lawsuits and changes to copyright and software patenting.

                      There’s a thing about trade deals – you have to balance the pros with the cons.

                      In many people’s thinking, the cons significantly outweigh the small pros we are getting.

                      Some people would NEVER give up certain rights and freedoms in exchange for any amount of benefit in the world you can name. But others (such as myself) are much more pragmatic – if the pros are sufficiently valuable to make up from the cons, then the deal should be considered. That doesn’t appear to be the case with TPPA.

                      This is all pretty basic negotiations 101 sort of stuff, I’m not sure why you’re having such a hard time understanding it.

                    • ropata …
                      6 February 2016 at 11:40 pm

                      but the benefits are more likely to accrue to the Nat party base (internationalist upper/middle class) and the costs to everyone else (workers, the poor, uneducated, or unwell)

                      the goal of capitalism is inequality

    • Stuart Munro 30.2
      4 February 2016 at 3:35 pm

      It’s a public interest matter.

      The betrayal and impoverishment of the people of NZ should be kept to as short a period as possible.

      If this inconveniences the traitors so much the better.

      • Puckish Rogue 30.2.1
        4 February 2016 at 4:12 pm

        🙂

      • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 30.2.2
        4 February 2016 at 4:37 pm

        Right now, ISIL are pushing gays off high buildings and executing people who are the wrong sort of Muslim.

        Yet you are marching because a future government will be stuck with a trade deal you don’t like for six months.

        Perspective, man.

        • Tracey 30.2.2.1
          4 February 2016 at 5:16 pm

          What date is your march?

          • One Anonymous Bloke 30.2.2.1.1
            4 February 2016 at 5:20 pm

            It isn’t a march, it’s a bribe: $6,000 per table. $15,000 for a round of “golf”.

        • ropata 30.2.2.2
          4 February 2016 at 5:24 pm

          nice dead cat irrelevant distraction PR tactic

          A trade deal affecting a whole generation of Kiwis right here and now
          vs.
          Fearmongering about a few evil scumbags on the other side of the world

          Relevance, man

  31. Tautuhi 31
    4 February 2016 at 2:37 pm

    John Key assures us maoris there is a clause in the TPPA which protects the TOW and Maoris so we have nothing to worry about?

  32. Pasupial 32
    4 February 2016 at 3:39 pm

    I guess; “usual suspects”, is the Aussie version of; “rentamob”:

    Robb, who signed the regional trade pact with counterparts from 11 other nations in New Zealand on Thursday, dismissed opponents of the deal as “the usual suspects”

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/04/tpp-signing-andrew-robb-rejects-calls-for-cost-benefit-analysis-of-trade-deal

    The Australian trade minister does a good impression of; a corrupt official turning a willfully blind eye to the facts, but he’s no Claude Rains:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXuBnz6vtuI

  33. Tanz 33
    4 February 2016 at 4:43 pm

    There was a huge police and security element there at the convention centre. yet the protest was peaceful. John Key just gave the fingers to NZers, once again.

    • Tracey 33.1
      4 February 2016 at 5:17 pm

      Part of me wondered, as I saw the police presence, if we all shouldn’t have stayed away and let the media film SO many cops guarding… nobody and nothing.

      • Rosemary McDonald 33.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 7:26 pm

        When we were driving up Fanshawe St about 2.45, we saw about 20 cops jogging down the hill…were they heading to Victoria Park?

        Energetic looking bunch….must have been the new shift…

        • Jenny Kirk 33.1.1.1
          4 February 2016 at 8:24 pm

          more likely, Rosemary, they would have been trying to stop the Real Choice protesters from blocking another motorway exit/entrance.

  34. Tautoko Mangō Mata 34
    4 February 2016 at 6:54 pm

    Excellent protest, well run.

    1. Two years ago, the majority of people didn’t even know what TPPA stood for?
    2. Now more people know that the TPPA has been signed. Without today’s protest, the signing could just have slid through under the radar.

    3. Our job is to now make sure that the public know the following:
    Us, the public can now have our say on the TPP in submissions
    BUT
    we can’t change anything about it even if we don’t like it! (Submissions count for nothing!)

    4. The National Cabinet (not the whole Parliament) ratify the deal.

    • Magisterium 34.1
      4 February 2016 at 7:05 pm

      Now more people know that the TPPA has been signed. Without today’s protest, the signing could just have slid through under the radar.

      Yeah see the thing about protests is they’re supposed to happen BEFORE the thing you don’t want. You know, to try and prevent it from happening.

      • Tautoko Mangō Mata 34.1.1
        4 February 2016 at 7:31 pm

        Yeah, see the thing about submissions is that they’re supposed to be called for BEFORE the text is finalised so that you can take the content into consideration.

      • ropata 34.1.2
        4 February 2016 at 7:31 pm

        What PR line did you trot out to justify the Iraq War and ignore protestors?

        What f*cken bullshit will you spout when 90% of kiwis are tenants in our own country, water is privatised, and corporations have more power than Parliament?

        Yeah see the thing about democracy is it’s supposed to take place BEFORE passing shitty laws that nobody wants. You know, to try and protect the people of NZ from predatory vested interests.

  35. whateva next? 35
    4 February 2016 at 7:02 pm

    just returned from work, and was unable to attend, I hear the protest was beautifically orchestrated and maximum disruption and nil ammunition for Key and cronies to call a law and order issue. Far from “rent a protest”, it showed a huge amount of discomfort bout TPPA, and what clever and thoughtful people they are.
    Loud applause to all who took time out and attended, thankyou

  36. Penny Bright 36
    4 February 2016 at 7:45 pm

    What’s your view of the anti-TPPA protest(s) today Matthew Hooton?

    In my view – there has been significant publicity – which should help increase public understanding about the TPPA?

    When do you think that those business lobbyists supporting the TPPA are going to call a rally or protest for ‘ordinary’ New Zealanders to ‘stand up and be counted’ to show their SUPPORT for the TPPA?

    Penny Bright
    2016 Auckland Mayoral candidate.
    (Who today marched against the TPPA).

  37. papa tuakana 37
    4 February 2016 at 9:17 pm

    proud of the protesters today

  38. North 38
    4 February 2016 at 10:04 pm

    The punk we call our PM needs a fucking good talikng to ! Even if it’s talikng to a gargoyle. Which it is !

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11584656

    It’s not all a giggle darling.

  39. maui 39
    4 February 2016 at 11:07 pm

    I saw a massive turnout from Maori today in Auckland, to me atleast they seemed the biggest ethnic group. Very proud to be a kiwi seeing that and I think I now know who has got the countries best interests at heart.

  40. Doogs 40
    5 February 2016 at 8:46 am

    To the moderator of this site –

    I absolutely bloody despair.

    How good would it be to engage in some reasoned and enlightening discussion about the real issues here. Instead, what do we get? People like PR et al with their smotheringly unhelpful and quite illogical sycophancy.

    These people destroy the threads and skew the lines of discourse.

    I know, I know – in the interests of democracy . . . etc

    I love reading the articles in TS, which has a bias, undeniably. However, these red-herring draggers are nothing short of purposeful disruptors. They have nothing but entrenched bias to spout, and that is not only untruthful but couched in seriously abusive terms. It doesn’t make me want to comment. I just want to run away and scream at the back fence.

    We can’t stop them, but I genuinely suggest a concerted campaign to completely ignore the fuckers. How about it?

    • The Gormless Fool formerly known as Oleolebiscuitbarrell 40.1
      5 February 2016 at 8:48 am

      Ignore everyone who disagrees with you. The path to enlightenment.

      • Pasupial 40.1.1
        5 February 2016 at 11:18 am

        Spam every comment thread with bullshit. A Gormless Fool’s path to endarkenment.

      • Doogs 40.1.2
        5 February 2016 at 1:20 pm

        Largely it’s not the matter but the manner.

        And I know from whence my enlightenment comes. I will respect all who disagree with me when they do it with fact, grace and nuance. Shoutey buggers are just bias bulldozers.

        Do I detect more than a little arrogance when you infer there is enlightenment in your posts? I note your reply postdates my words by 2 minutes. Waiting to pounce are you?

        [lprent: The rules of this site are in the policy. Generally the mods will constrain debate within those limits using their judgement as required. But they are jealous superior beings and not tolerant of people trying to carve their own tablets. You’d be better off trying to develop a thick skin rather than trying to define what others should do here. ]

  41. Lorraine 41
    5 February 2016 at 10:47 am

    The real issue with the TPPA is that the government took a short turn approach to this deal by signing up to a deal that puts the rights of money hungry corporations over the rights of our nation.
    For example.
    Type 2 diabetes is a growing problem in NZ and is eating up more and more of the healthcare pie. The biggest contributor to type 2 diabetes is the increase in sugars in our food. These sugars are not recognisable to the average person as they are not labeled simply as sugar. Instead they have unrecognisable names, letters, or numeric codes. Portion size also is confusing because it is not a standard unit of measurement.
    Over the past 20 years, these sugars have been replacing other ingredients simply because it makes the product cheap to manufacture and therefore the money hungry no conscience multinational corporations richer and richer. We have rights under the bill of rights in NZ but what our government has agree to puts the rights of rich and powerful corporations above the rights of us as individuals. It is only a matter of time before type 2 diabetes healthcare cripples our healthcare system if our government can no put strategies to limit the use of these sugars in our food. Not only can the money hungry no conscience multinational corporations prevent legislation but they can also prevent education measures too.
    The environment is also an issue. Our beautiful country is open to exploitation by foreign investors with greed for money as their motivation for investing here. Do we want to live in a polluted country where our flora and fora is destroyed by exploitation by money hungry no conscience multinational corporation.
    THE ISSUE FOR NZ IS THOSE COMPANIES HAVE MORE MONEY THAN OUR COUNTRY AND SO HAVE MORE POWER IN A COURT OF LAW – because we have given our power away.
    The TPPA is like a marriage where one partner agrees to allowing the other partner to exploit and abuse them. At the time of the marriage it is perceived that the likelihood of that abuse happening is small but many men and women in marriages experience abuse of some kind. The same could be said for business partnerships etc.
    IF ONE PARTNER GIVES AWAY THEIR RIGHTS OVER TIME THEY WILL BE CRUSHED.
    NZ could end up being sued by many companies.
    DO YOU WANT YOUR TAXPAYERS DOLLARS GOING TO PAY LAWYERS AND PAYING BIG MULTINATION INSTEAD OF EDUCATING OUR KIDS AND CARING FOR US WHEN WE ARE ILL AND KEEPING NZ A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO LIVE!!!

    • Doogs 41.1
      5 February 2016 at 1:24 pm

      A really well put example Lorraine. Big ups.

    • Magisterium 41.2
      5 February 2016 at 2:04 pm

      We have rights under the bill of rights in NZ but what our government has agree to puts the rights of rich and powerful corporations above the rights of us as individuals. It is only a matter of time before type 2 diabetes healthcare cripples our healthcare system if our government can no put strategies to limit the use of these sugars in our food.

      Hell, I’m convinced.

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