Today is a win-win with Winston
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8:48 am, October 19th, 2017 - 103 comments
Categories: accountability, act, election 2017, electoral systems, First Past the Post, greens, jacinda ardern, labour, MMP, national, nz first, political parties, Politics, same old national, united future, winston peters -
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It appears that Winston is about to announce the decision of the NZ First party about their coalition partner today. There was a brief press release last night from Winston Peters office last night at 1720.
New Zealand First will be in a position tomorrow afternoon to make an announcement on the result of negotiations following the 2017 General Election.
New Zealand First Leader Rt Hon Winston Peters said he had spoken to the leaders of the National Party and the Labour Party today and, amongst other matters, advised them of that.
There have been a number of responses last night and this morning.
Barry Soper: NZ First to announce partner tomorrow
Vernon Small: If Peters wants a legacy then the playing field is tilting to the left
Claire Trevett: English suffers consequences of Middle Man Paranoia
Tracy Watkins: Winston Peters and the waiting game
But I’d like to point my viewpoint on it.
For the political dimwits and romantic adherents of the “strong leader” who seem to think that coalitions should be formed with rapidity, they simply shouldn’t. That is the path to making stupid decisions, and I am yet to hear a single good reason to do it.
Some of our spray and walk away media spitting their uninformed and ill thought through opinions out seem to think that. But they operate without the significiant feedback that hasn’t been filtered to guard their delicate egos. Yes – I am thinking of Mike Hoskings. But there are a lot of similar talking heads. Try radio talkback some time. Around here I get to have my opinions challenged daily by smart informed people with ‘interesting’ opinions, usually divergent to my own, on a political blogsite with limited filters. It keeps the hubris down.
But I still haven’t seen a credible reason why the current coalition process is a bad one. What I have seen is what I see in the media. A lot of spluttering of vague and unformed incoherence that seem to amount to “we don’t like Winston”. That isn’t a reason. That is just being a simple minded bigot unencumbered with thought.
Just look at Germany, the spiritual home of MMP, the recently concluded election on the 24th of September won’t even start realistic coalition agreements to form a government until the 18th of October. It isn’t expected that a government will actually form until December. In an extreme example of a more proportional system – in 2011, the Belgium government formed after 541 days.
That makes us having a government formed in well less than a month from the election a masterpiece of speed.
We have rational caretaker governments these days who unlike the born to rule stupidity of the National caretaker government of 1984, actually operate in the nation’s interest. That is, in my opinion, because they always have had to operate in cooperation with other political organisations to even form a government. That is what the voters keep voting for – politicians are servants of the public, not their autocratic masters.
There hasn’t been a single party majority under MMP and I don’t think that it ever that likely to happen. Who in their right mind would want that? It is bad enough having to have politicians. We really don’t need to give them that much political room to put their crazed ego maniacal ideas into action.
Sure, governments under first past the post have parties that are internal coalitions. But that is where the living arrangements were established well before the elections. It does mean that they can form governments fast. The problem was that voters didn’t get to decide anything apart from which pack of a limited set of lying self-interested fools we got to choose.
Voters then couldn’t do what I did earlier this year and decide that I didn’t particularly trust whatever was happening in Labour. I decided that my vote could be better used to vote for the Greens and under MMP that would still mean something – see “Ok, I’m pissed off with the Labour caucus again. Time to switch”.
My choices under FPP would have been to not vote at all, or to vote for a local candidate that had absolutely no chance of getting in. As it was I voted Green and for Jacinda Arden for Mt Albert, a choice that fortunately exactly mapped on to my preferences.
Back when MMP was decided I voted against MMP because I thought that it was likely cause unstable governments unable to make forward looking decisions that reached over the decades required – which is one of the major roles of a government. I was wrong and voted for MMP in the followup referendum.
MMP doesn’t mean that politicians or political parties are any better. They just have more limited room with which to cause damage. If you look at National you can often see that they have a clear abdication of a basic responsibility of government. They often appear to operate at timescales that are even lower than most private businesses manage to achieve*.
You don’t have to look far beyond their timing decisions over the last decade on housing, infrastructural spending and immigration to see a pretty good example of piss poor future planning and management. The effects in Auckland, where most of the nett migration winds up are pretty damn obvious. But this kind of short-term thinking damage is showing up all over our society at present. From poisoned rivers and low aquifers , to the armies of homeless beggars on the streets that remind you of the great depression.
But Nationals coalition partners have often forced required long term changes to be made. As examples:-
- In my opinion, the Maori parties Whānau Ora wasn’t exactly well organised, But it was a far-reaching attempt to change the pattern of health care to deal with a systematic and nagging social problem in a structural manner. Their major problem in politics was that they felt that they had to be present to protect that gain. If they ever manage to rise again, they should cultivate the art of structural organisation. Having to be hands on is a damn stupid idea in business, but even more so in government.
- Peter Dunne finally managed to push the move to get rid of that historical piece of early 1970s computing junk at the Inland Revenue and force the slow change to something that won’t inhibit future use of the tax systems to help our society and economy. This was something that became quite apparent when Working for Families was brought in. I may not like the strange political contortions that have allowed Peter Dunne to survive for decades. But I salute him for getting that change underway.
- Act – well I suppose there was the Auckland super-city. However they botched that by trying for political gain by their simple minded short-term fiddling of its structure. They structured it in such a way that it caused what will be a decade worth of lost time while it restructured, and that was over a period of its fastest growth. I think that their intent was to form a political base. However voters in Auckland nixed that idea and their proxies in local government here.
It means that while useful progress in the last 9 years has been really really slow on anything important, but it didn’t stop.
It is pretty clear that whoever NZ First goes with this afternoon, they will be trying to push for long-term policy gains.
In coalition with National’s habitual short-term and apparently unthinking focus on their organisational purpose of getting elected and into government, that focus on the larger issues will be welcome. Unfortunately I suspect that having to pull against all of that dead weight is likely to cause NZ First considerable backlash at the next election. So I’d expect a strong and decisive win for the left in 2020, and for many terms afterwards.
A coalition with Labour and the Greens is a more natural fit. NZ First will have a more natural role in acting more like the required brake required in all governance.
Move forward incrementally but don’t overreach is damn near the definition of a stable government.
Either way, as a separate party with it own internal structure and supporters, NZ First is fulfilling the required place of a political party in a coalition forming environment. What is really astonishing is how fast this coalition (whatever it is) has actually been formed.
* Before any religious advocate of the free enterprise gets too upset about that statement, please remember that I’ve worked in the private sector for all of my working life. I did a MBA at Otago when I was still interested in continuing to work as a manager. I’ve also been around politics for many decades and have a strong interest in history and legal principles. I know exactly what I am talking about and the limits on both kinds of systems. If you want to argue about my statement on the limits of private business (or government), then I’d suggest you establish your background first. I’m quite uninterested in arguing with ill-prepared fools or their ideological stupidities. I tend to treat them with contempt and humiliation as an educational experience. Be warned.
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Labour’s immigration spokesperson Phil Twyford is calling on the Government to follow the example of Australia and help New Zealanders’ close family members stuck in Gaza to escape and take shelter here. ...6 days ago - Now, more than ever, we must whakamana Te Tiriti o WaitangiThe Green Party is urging the Government to recognise its commitment to Te Tiriti o Waitangi so our tamariki and mokopuna can grow up in an Aotearoa where their language is celebrated, their health is prioritised, and their whenua is protected. ...6 days ago
- Release: Labour team ready to take on the coalition of chaosLabour’s strong line-up for the 54th Parliament brings experience and energy to the job of Opposition. ...2 weeks ago
- The future of Aotearoa is at stakeThe next 100 days will be a fight for our future. ...2 weeks ago
- Māori will die to fund tax cutsBy scrapping Aotearoa’s world-leading smokefree laws, this government is sacrificing Māori lives to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. Not only is this plan revolting, but it doesn’t add up. Treasury has estimated that the reversal of smokefree laws to pay for tax cuts will cost our health system $5.25bn, ...2 weeks ago
- Release: National’s fiscal plans dealt another blowFigures showing National needs to find another $900 million for landlords highlights the mess this coalition Government is in less than a week into the job. ...2 weeks ago
- Green Party unveils portfolio spokespeople for the 54th ParliamentThe Green Party is pleased to announce the allocation of portfolios across its largest caucus ever. ...2 weeks ago
- The Time is Now for Oceans ProtectionCommunity organisations, mana whenua and the Greens have written to the incoming Minister of Oceans and Fisheries to call for the progression without delay of the Hauraki Gulf/Tīkapa Moana Marine Protection Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Greenpeace nitrates research proves need for strong freshwater regulationThe Green Party is welcoming the release of an interactive map which enables people to monitor nitrate levels in their drinking water. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Chris Hipkins congratulates Christopher Luxon"On behalf of the Labour Party I would like to congratulate Christopher Luxon on his appointment as Prime Minister,” Labour Party Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...2 weeks ago
- Greens launch petition to save oil and gas banThe Green Party has launched a petition to save the ban on oil and gas exploration. ...2 weeks ago
- Luxon’s Government will whitewash AotearoaNZ First has gotten their wish to ‘take our country back’ to the 1800s with a policy program that will white-wash Aotearoa and erase tangata whenua rights. By disestablishing the Māori Health Authority this Government has condemned Māori to die seven years earlier than Pākehā. By removing Treaty obligations from ...2 weeks ago
- Green Party a strong opposition to divisive governmentThe Green Party will keep up the fight for an Aotearoa that works for everyone. ...2 weeks ago
- COP28 National Statement for New Zealand
Tēnā koutou katoa Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. An island nation at the bottom of the Pacific, New Zealand is unique. Our geography, our mountains, lakes, winds and rainfall helps set us up for the future, allowing for nearly 90 per cent of our electricity to come from renewable sources. I’m ...2 days ago - Ministers visit Hawke’s Bay to grasp recovery needsPrime Minister Christopher Luxon joined Cyclone Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell and Transport and Local Government Minister Simeon Brown, to meet leaders of cyclone and flood-affected regions in the Hawke’s Bay. The visit reinforced the coalition Government’s commitment to support the region and better understand its ongoing requirements, Mr Mitchell says. ...3 days ago
- New Zealand condemns malicious cyber activityNew Zealand has joined the UK and other partners in condemning malicious cyber activity conducted by the Russian Government, Minister Responsible for the Government Communications Security Bureau Judith Collins says. The statement follows the UK’s attribution today of malicious cyber activity impacting its domestic democratic institutions and processes, as well ...3 days ago
- Disestablishment of Te Pūkenga beginsThe Government has begun the process of disestablishing Te Pūkenga as part of its 100-day plan, Minister for Tertiary Education and Skills Penny Simmonds says. “I have started putting that plan into action and have met with the chair and chief Executive of Te Pūkenga to advise them of my ...4 days ago
- Climate Change Minister to attend COP28 in DubaiClimate Change Minister Simon Watts will be leaving for Dubai today to attend COP28, the 28th annual UN climate summit, this week. Simon Watts says he will push for accelerated action towards the goals of the Paris Agreement, deliver New Zealand’s national statement and connect with partner countries, private sector leaders ...4 days ago
- New Zealand to host 2024 Pacific defence meetingDefence Minister Judith Collins yesterday announced New Zealand will host next year’s South Pacific Defence Ministers’ Meeting (SPDMM). “Having just returned from this year’s meeting in Nouméa, I witnessed first-hand the value of meeting with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security and defence matters. I welcome the opportunity to ...4 days ago
- Study shows need to remove distractions in classThe Government is committed to lifting school achievement in the basics and that starts with removing distractions so young people can focus on their learning, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. The 2022 PISA results released this week found that Kiwi kids ranked 5th in the world for being distracted ...4 days ago
- Minister sets expectations of CommissionerToday I met with Police Commissioner Andrew Coster to set out my expectations, which he has agreed to, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. Under section 16(1) of the Policing Act 2008, the Minister can expect the Police Commissioner to deliver on the Government’s direction and priorities, as now outlined in ...5 days ago
- New Zealand needs a strong and stable ETSNew Zealand needs a strong and stable Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) that is well placed for the future, after emission units failed to sell for the fourth and final auction of the year, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. At today’s auction, 15 million New Zealand units (NZUs) – each ...5 days ago
- PISA results show urgent need to teach the basicsWith 2022 PISA results showing a decline in achievement, Education Minister Erica Stanford is confident that the Coalition Government’s 100-day plan for education will improve outcomes for Kiwi kids. The 2022 PISA results show a significant decline in the performance of 15-year-old students in maths compared to 2018 and confirms ...6 days ago
- Collins leaves for Pacific defence meetingDefence Minister Judith Collins today departed for New Caledonia to attend the 8th annual South Pacific Defence Ministers’ meeting (SPDMM). “This meeting is an excellent opportunity to meet face-to-face with my Pacific counterparts to discuss regional security matters and to demonstrate our ongoing commitment to the Pacific,” Judith Collins says. ...7 days ago
- Working for Families gets cost of living boostPutting more money in the pockets of hard-working families is a priority of this Coalition Government, starting with an increase to Working for Families, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon says. “We are starting our 100-day plan with a laser focus on bringing down the cost of living, because that is what ...7 days ago
- Post-Cabinet press conferenceMost weeks, following Cabinet, the Prime Minister holds a press conference for members of the Parliamentary Press Gallery. This page contains the transcripts from those press conferences, which are supplied by Hansard to the Office of the Prime Minister. It is important to note that the transcripts have not been edited ...1 week ago
- Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme scrappedThe Government has axed the $16 billion Lake Onslow pumped hydro scheme championed by the previous government, Energy Minister Simeon Brown says. “This hugely wasteful project was pouring money down the drain at a time when we need to be reining in spending and focussing on rebuilding the economy and ...1 week ago
- NZ welcomes further pause in fighting in GazaNew Zealand welcomes the further one-day extension of the pause in fighting, which will allow the delivery of more urgently-needed humanitarian aid into Gaza and the release of more hostages, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said. “The human cost of the conflict is horrific, and New Zealand wants to see the violence ...1 week ago
- Condolences on passing of Henry KissingerForeign Minister Winston Peters today expressed on behalf of the New Zealand Government his condolences to the family of former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who has passed away at the age of 100 at his home in Connecticut. “While opinions on his legacy are varied, Secretary Kissinger was ...1 week ago
- Backing our kids to learn the basicsEvery child deserves a world-leading education, and the Coalition Government is making that a priority as part of its 100-day plan. Education Minister Erica Stanford says that will start with banning cellphone use at school and ensuring all primary students spend one hour on reading, writing, and maths each day. ...1 week ago
- US Business Summit Speech – Regional stability through tradeI would like to begin by echoing the Prime Minister’s thanks to the organisers of this Summit, Fran O’Sullivan and the Auckland Business Chamber. I want to also acknowledge the many leading exporters, sector representatives, diplomats, and other leaders we have joining us in the room. In particular, I would like ...2 weeks ago
- Keynote Address to the United States Business Summit, AucklandGood morning. Thank you, Rosemary, for your warm introduction, and to Fran and Simon for this opportunity to make some brief comments about New Zealand’s relationship with the United States. This is also a chance to acknowledge my colleague, Minister for Trade Todd McClay, Ambassador Tom Udall, Secretary of Foreign ...2 weeks ago
- India New Zealand Business Council Speech, India as a Strategic PriorityGood morning, tēnā koutou and namaskar. Many thanks, Michael, for your warm welcome. I would like to acknowledge the work of the India New Zealand Business Council in facilitating today’s event and for the Council’s broader work in supporting a coordinated approach for lifting New Zealand-India relations. I want to also ...2 weeks ago
- Coalition Government unveils 100-day planPrime Minister Christopher Luxon has laid out the Coalition Government’s plan for its first 100 days from today. “The last few years have been incredibly tough for so many New Zealanders. People have put their trust in National, ACT and NZ First to steer them towards a better, more prosperous ...2 weeks ago
- New Zealand welcomes European Parliament vote on the NZ-EU Free Trade AgreementA significant milestone in ratifying the NZ-EU Free Trade Agreement (FTA) was reached last night, with 524 of the 705 member European Parliament voting in favour to approve the agreement. “I’m delighted to hear of the successful vote to approve the NZ-EU FTA in the European Parliament overnight. This is ...3 weeks ago
- Chainsaws, chokos and culverts: All the weird things New Zealand googled in 2023
Google New Zealand revealed its annual ‘Year in Search’. Sam Brooks runs down the expected, the unexpected and the downright strange. Each year, Google New Zealand releases what New Zealand has been searching for, from the most googled people of the year (Jacinda Ardern, often) to more obscure things like ...59 mins ago - Free Fares NZ Submit Petition Calling For New Government To Keep Public Transport Affordable
Today the Free Fares Campaign presented their 6,650+ strong petition to MPs Julie Anne Genter and Ayesha Verrall, demanding that the new Government retain the current public transport discounts and expand this to 100% free public transport for target ...1 hour ago - Male infertility is more common than you may think. Here are 5 ways to protect your sperm
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Karin Hammarberg, Senior Research Fellow, Global and Women’s Health, School of Public Health & Preventive Medicine, Monash University Shutterstock Infertility is often thought of as a female problem but one in three IVF cycles in Australia involve male infertility. We ...2 hours ago - The government is bringing immigration back to ‘normal levels’ but cuts are not as dramatic as t...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rachel Stevens, Research fellow, Australian Catholic University metamorworks/Shutterstock On Monday, the federal government announced plans to fix Australia’s “broken migration system” and to “bring migration back to sustainable, normal levels”. Its long-awaited migration strategy aims “to build a migration system ...2 hours ago
- Report Shows Government Must Act With UrgencyThe Gas Supply and Demand Study released today from the Gas Industry Company shows that the new Government must act urgently to restore investment confidence in New Zealand’s upstream oil and gas sector or put our energy security at risk. Energy ...2 hours ago
- CAPHRA Supports Beaglehole's Commentary On Vaping In New ZealandThe Coalition of Asia Pacific Tobacco Harm Reduction Advocates (CAPHRA) supports Emeritus Professor Robert Beaglehole's recent commentary on New Zealand's progress in addressing vaping among young people. Beaglehole, the chair of Action on Smoking ...2 hours ago
- How the poetically-charged art of Tacita Dean gives its audience a moment for stillness and timeSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Donna West Brett, Associate Professor in Art History, University of Sydney Tacita Dean, Paradise (film still), 2021, with music, Paradiso by Thomas Adès, 35mm colour anamorphic film, image courtesy the artist, Frith Street Gallery, London and Marian Goodman Gallery, New York, Paris ...2 hours ago
- Doing science in Antarctica has harmed an environment under great pressure. Here’s how we can do b...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shaun Brooks, Fieldwork Coordinator/Research Technician, CSIRO The Argentine research station, Base Primavera, on the Antarctic Peninsula. Shaun Brooks Scientific research in Antarctica has played a key role in many important discoveries of the past century. But it has also come at a ...3 hours ago
- Doing science in Antarctica has harmed an environment under great pressure. Here’s how we can do b...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shaun Brooks, Fieldwork Coordinator/Research Technician, CSIRO The Argentine research station, Base Primavera, on the Antarctic Peninsula. Shaun Brooks Scientific research in Antarctica has played a key role in many important discoveries of the past century. But it has also come at a ...3 hours ago
- International cricket is withering on the vine – why do we still play so much of it?Players are sending a clear and obvious message: there’s too much cricket and not enough of it matters. This is an excerpt from The Bounce, a Substack newsletter by Dylan Cleaver. We are less than a week from the start of the home international men’s cricket season and… what a wet ...3 hours ago
- Return of the ‘consultocracy’ – how cutting public service jobs to save costs usually backfire...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Barbara Allen, Senior Lecturer in Public Management, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington It has been clear that change is coming to the New Zealand public service since the election campaign. Just what impact that change will have is less ...4 hours ago
- Return of the ‘consultocracy’ – how cutting public service jobs to save costs usually backfire...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Barbara Allen, Senior Lecturer in Public Management, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington It has been clear that change is coming to the New Zealand public service since the election campaign. Just what impact that change will have is less ...4 hours ago
- Walking and talking: The Waitakere hīkoi teaching locals about the place they liveA West Auckland iwi is sharing its stories with other Waitakere community members through a unique programme of guided walks. At the meeting point of the Whau awa and Te Waitematā in Waitakere sits Harbourview Park, a taonga of te taiao near the heart of our nation’s biggest city. ...4 hours ago
- Digital ID will go mainstream across Australia in 2024. Here’s how it can work for everyoneSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Edward Santow, Professor & Co-Director, Human Technology Institute, University of Technology Sydney Simon Lee / Unsplash In a world promising self-driving cars and artificial general intelligence, the prospect of a new form of digital identity verification can feel … less ...5 hours ago
- If Ryanair’s social media jumped off a cliff, would yours jump too?The budget airline’s famously sassy tweets and TikToks have commanded millions of eyeballs, and spawned almost as many imitators. What does the brand’s former head of social make of them all? “When you try to be something you’re not, the users can smell bullshit a mile away.” Very calmly and ...5 hours ago
- Prime Minister Christopher Luxon: High net migration not sustainable for New Zealand
New Zealand's 118,000 net migration gain in a year is unsustainable, and infrastructure needs to be better managed to support growth, says Prime Minister Christopher Luxon. ...6 hours ago - Transporting New Zealand Outlines Road Freight PrioritiesRoad freight peak body Ia Ara Aotearoa Transporting New Zealand has released its industry briefing to the Minister of Transport Simeon Brown, including setting out eight actions that would provide practical support and reassurance to the freight ...6 hours ago
- Greenpeace billboard labels government 'climate extremists' over oil and gas exploration p...Anyone promoting more fossil fuel use in the midst of a climate crisis deserves to be called out as "extremist", Greenpeace says. ...6 hours ago
- What’s your money doing in Palestine?Your KiwiSaver could be helping to fuel the cycle of violence. Barry Coates, CEO of responsible investing charity Mindful Money, explains how to check. The images of dead and injured civilians pulled from the wreckage in Gaza is tragic. But what is even more tragic is that the atrocities committed ...7 hours ago
- Opinion: Will Our New Government Take The Chance To Fix Accessibility Bill?By Peter Reynolds, New Zealand Disability Support Network CEO I’m holding my breath - hoping for better Accessibility legislation that delivers world class support for all disabled New Zealanders. There’s work to do before we get there. Earlier this ...7 hours ago
- The Geminids: the year’s best meteor shower is upon us. And this one will be a true spectacleSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland Shutterstock As an astronomer and meteor enthusiast, I’d say it’s the most wonderful time of the year. Each December sees the return of the Geminid meteor shower – the best natural fireworks ...8 hours ago
- Israel-Hamas war: What is Zionism? A history of the political movement that created Israel as we kno...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Thomas, Lecturer in Middle East Studies, Deakin University Shutterstock As the Israel-Hamas war continues, there’s been a lot of discussion around Zionism. Put simply, Zionism is a nationalist movement that advocates for a homeland for the Jewish people in ...8 hours ago
- I’m trying to lose weight and eat healthily. Why do I feel so hungry all the time? What can I do a...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nick Fuller, Charles Perkins Centre Research Program Leader, University of Sydney Benjamin Franklin, one of the founding fathers of the United States, famously said nothing is certain except death and taxes. But I think we can include “you’ll feel hungry when you’re ...8 hours ago
- Australia has one of the weakest tax systems for redistribution among industrial nations – the Sta...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jim Stanford, Economist and Director, Centre for Future Work, Australia Institute; Honorary Professor of Political Economy, University of Sydney Shutterstock One of the chief purposes of government payments and taxes is to redistribute income, which is why tax rates are ...8 hours ago
- How an underwater sculpture trail plays a role in the health – and beauty – of the Great Barrier...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adam Smith, Adjunct Associate Professor, James Cook University The widespread demise of coral reefs due to climate change is now a certainty. But what role does art have in our future for coral reefs? Art is about feelings. One of the ...8 hours ago
- Workplace Relations Minister Brooke van Velden 'less certain' of good relationship with un...The new Workplace Relations and Safety Minister has a busy two weeks ahead, with promises to axe Fair Pay Agreements and start work to reinstate 90-day trials before the summer break. ...8 hours ago
- 2024 will be make or break for New Zealand infrastructureRoads, pipes, houses, hospitals: our infrastructure challenges are overwhelming in their size and scale. Will the government’s new approach make any difference, asks Catherine McGregor in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. A challenge of ...9 hours ago
- Sliding backwards on human rights
This week marks the 75th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. But is the agreement New Zealand signed up to at the UN so long ago still relevant? And are assumptions that we’re doing just fine in this area starting to look a little smug? Today on ...10 hours ago - Workplace Relations Minister 'less certain' of good relationship with unionsThe new Workplace Relations and Safety minister has a busy two weeks ahead, with promises to axe Fair Pay Agreements and start work to reinstate 90-day trials before the summer break. ...10 hours ago
- Xmas: the best nonfiction of 2023New Zealand nonfiction in 2023 went in pursuit of worthy subjects – Māori health, white privilege, law and order, the foaming mad of the alt-right – but lacked the personal touch. In contrast with the blazing artistry and honesty of Charlotte Grimshaw’s memoir The Mirror Book (2021) and Noelle ...10 hours ago
- Winston Peters’ rabbit hole problemClaims by a Whatu Ora staffer have attracted the attention of conspiracy groups in NZ and around the world. And they’re demanding attention from someone they thought was on their side. They didn’t all love him. This was the guy, after all, who stood in lockstep with their bete noire, ...11 hours ago
- Beyond Xero: Is Wellington ready to take on the fintech world?Seventeen years after Xero launched in a one-bedroom apartment on Willis St, the next generation of Wellington financial startups is ready to go big. Will the capital take advantage? In 2006, Rod Drury and Hamish Edwards started a little company in a one-bedroom apartment on Willis St with the janky ...11 hours ago
- Newsroom daily quiz, Monday 11 DecemberLoading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[quiz],DIV[quiz],A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp'); Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions. The post Newsroom daily quiz, Monday 11 December appeared first on Newsroom. ...11 hours ago
- Mackenzie solar farm stoush heads to courtApplicants for an 88MW solar array in the Mackenzie Basin says the site's biodiversity values are 'vastly overstated' The post Mackenzie solar farm stoush heads to court appeared first on Newsroom. ...11 hours ago
- Strong and stable pay for all – not just for politiciansIf a market is structured so a race to the bottom is encouraged, then businesses will start racing there The post Strong and stable pay for all – not just for politicians appeared first on Newsroom. ...11 hours ago
- Daily crossword, Monday 11 DecemberThe post Daily crossword, Monday 11 December appeared first on Newsroom. ...11 hours ago
- Surging migration expected to lift economic outputNet migration of 120,000 in 2023 has helped to grow population by 2.7% and supported higher output and demand The post Surging migration expected to lift economic output appeared first on Newsroom. ...11 hours ago
- Leaders go round in a circle at climate summitSigns of weaker language on the phase-out of fossil fuels emerged yesterday as the United Nations’ COP28 climate summit delegates prepared for the final few days of talks. To that end, Sultan Al Jaber, the United Arab Emirates’ chair of the negotiations, convened a majlis – a gathering of elders ...11 hours ago
- Defence Force boosts sexual assault response after ‘serious’ staff auditFormer Navy engineer welcomes reinforcement of armed forces' Sexual Assault Response team, in the hope her daughters' generation won't suffer what she did. The post Defence Force boosts sexual assault response after ‘serious’ staff audit appeared first on Newsroom. ...11 hours ago
- Government to toughen scrutiny of international students as it slashes net migration over two yearsSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Australia’s net-overseas migration levels will be cut dramatically over two years to bring the country’s exploding intake back to sustainable numbers. In estimates to be released on Monday, net-overseas migration will be 375,000 this ...15 hours ago
- Another march on the cards if new government lets Ngāpuhi down – Hinerangi Cooper-PuruDame Whina Cooper's daughter says her mum would have urged Ngāpuhi to never give up the struggle for justice. ...18 hours ago
- With Annastacia Palaszczuk gone, can Labor achieve the unachievable in Queensland?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Williams, Associate Professor, Griffith University, Griffith University Democracies are, by nature, systems of stability and change. But, north of the Tweed River, Queensland politics is very much about stability, and only a little about change. Where, for example, New South Wales ...20 hours ago
- Environmental Defence Society releases its Briefings for Incoming MinistersEDS has today released its Briefings for Incoming Ministers in the new Coalition Government. The BIMs cover the following portfolio areas and Ministers: Hon Penny Simmonds, Minister for the Environment Hon Chris Bishop, Minister for Resource Management ...1 day ago
- Tobacco researcher: New Zealand's reputation 'now pretty tarnished' amongst scientist...A public health academic says New Zealand's rowback on smokefree legislation is "very embarrassing" and has tarnished our reputation. ...1 day ago
- Why does some popcorn not pop?Popcorn has one job. So what happens when it fails? Charlotte Muru-Lanning reports from the stovetop. This is an excerpt from our weekly food newsletter, The Boil Up. There’s nothing quite like the lively ceremony of making stovetop popcorn. First there’s the clattering of those amber-coloured kernels into the pot. Hopefully within minutes, there’s the first hollow pop. Then, ...1 day ago
- In-between kids: The volunteering experience that inspired Before GeorgeDeborah Robertson on what inspired her to write her new novel, and to set it in 1953 – the year of the Tangiwai disaster. A group of six girls in purple T-shirts are sitting on a log. Well, not really a log. It’s an equestrian hurdle that has been carved ...1 day ago
- Coaster calls for Government to plug stopbanksA Harihari dairy farmer whose land was flooded when a stopbank failed this year says river protection on the West Coast has become unaffordable and the Government should urgently restore subsidies for the work. Andy Campbell lost the use of 100ha when the Wanganui River breached a stopbank last ...1 day ago
- We’re going on a bat huntIn rural South Auckland, a team of conservationists head out on a nocturnal mission to track down Aotearoa’s only native land mammal. Asia Martusia King tags along. The bat hunt begins as usual: with Vengaboys. A group of scientists sits somberly around a table in a rural South Auckland paddock, ...1 day ago
- The Sunday Essay: Is there an age when you can no longer dance?How I faced the limitations of dancing into the ‘sunset years’ of my life. The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. Illustrations by kūkū. “To choose to be a dancer is a lovely act of defiance” – Daniel Nagrin, How to Dance Forever ...1 day ago
- Ngāpuhi hapū gather to receive Tribunal report on Treaty grievancesA landmark Waitangi Tribunal report into injustices suffered by Ngāpuhi will strengthen the iwi's case as it looks to restart its stalled Treaty settlement negotiations, a hapū leader says. ...2 days ago
- ‘We’re legit filmmakers’: The story behind Viva La Dirt League’s epic new studioIn just 18 months, the Auckland-based YouTube channel has gone from working from home and out of cafes to a brand new multi-million dollar studio. Sam Brooks asks the trio how they pulled it off, and what they’re planning to do with it. On December 4, a video called “The ...2 days ago
- Focus on Politics: Māori dissent sets the scene as Parliament returnsThe resumption of Parliament this week has been underlined by outcry from Māori, soon matched by fury within the debating chamber. ...2 days ago
- ‘Childish, immature, disgusting’: Why TV viewers are mad at Anika Moa this timeThe Anika Moa Unleashed host unleashes her thoughts on After the Party, Paul Holmes, The Walking Dead, stalking celebrities and more. Anika Moa has a proud history of angering strangers online, whether it’s due to her tattoos, her love life, or something else entirely. When she sits down with The ...2 days ago
- Rod Oram: Words, crowds and Kiwis at global climate summitSearching widely for ways to overcome deep opposition by fossil fuel nations to a phase-out of their products, the President of COP28 enlisted an ally while negotiators sought subtler language yesterday. “We have been asked by the UAE presidency to help find common language that will be acceptable ...2 days ago
- Food writing isn’t really about foodWith a topic so universal, it’s almost always about something bigger. Consider the contents of your fridge. What kinds of fruits and vegetables are in your crisper drawer? How much did that block of cheese set you back? Where did you source most of this kai from? Are there ingredients ...2 days ago
- Long Read: The grief birdYou can read the full story, plus see photographs from Craig McKenzie, in the November-December issue of New Zealand Geographic magazine, or on their website. The bittern’s eerie, booming call sounds like a lament, a tangi ringing across the marshes. Now, the birds themselves are in trouble. ...2 days ago
- Theatrical performance: does music work for surgery?Opinion: You may have been there, waiting your turn, wearing an ill-fitting hospital gown, surrounded by a flurry of staff, the smell of disinfectant in the air. If you’ve ever undergone surgery, you probably know the nervous, stress-laden pre-op feeling. What may come as a surprise is that ...2 days ago
- Short story: Beautiful Isolation, by Catherine Chidgey1. In the evening and in the night, I sit on the balcony and think of you. I can’t see the water but I know it’s there, soft and slow. We bathed in it that last day, you and I, when the dusk hung heavy as cloth of gold ...2 days ago
- Togs, togs, undies: The story behind NZ’s most iconic summer adAlex Casey unearths the origin story of an New Zealand icon – featuring a surprise cameo from an international comedy megastar. At first glance, the Facebook post from a Waipu cafe reads like any other heartfelt change in ownership announcement. “George and Amber have reflected on their involvement in our ...2 days ago
- Their house, my garden: What to do when your plant is boltingThis week on Their house, my garden, why my spinach plant has grown suspiciously tall, and how to deal with your own over-eager plants. Beginner gardeners would be forgiven for thinking a plant growing tall is reason to celebrate. We are, after all, the kind of species who mark door ...2 days ago
- Government rocked by second leak in five days, ministers suspend analysis of repeal proposalsThe new government has been rocked by the leaking of another confidential paper to the New Zealand Herald - the second to spill in just five days. ...3 days ago
- 'He gets it' – Christopher Luxon impresses locals on first visit to cyclone-battered...Luxon drove the crumbling SH2 with a handful of MPs on Friday morning to reach the small town, gauge progress of its recovery, and learn what it needs from the new government. ...3 days ago
- Israel’s AI can produce 100 bombing targets a day in Gaza. Is this the future of war?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bianca Baggiarini, Lecturer, Australian National University Last week, reports emerged that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) are using an artificial intelligence (AI) system called Habsora (Hebrew for “The Gospel”) to select targets in the war on Hamas in Gaza. The system has ...3 days ago
- Frank and far-reaching: Senate report recommends shake-up of the way freedom of information is handl...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Johan Lidberg, Associate Professor, School of Media, Film and Journalism, Monash University The most significant recommendation in the Senate inquiry report on the functionality of the Commonwealth FOI system is this: move the federal Freedom of Information (FOI) function from the Office ...3 days ago
- Week in Politics: New government survives first Question TimeAnalysis: The government was under attack on multiple fronts during a week of relentless criticism and then faced its first Question Time in Parliament, Peter Wilson writes. ...3 days ago
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“coalitions should be formed with rapidity, they simply shouldn’t.”
Absolutely correct.
Winston is laying the groundwork for the coalition and the Labour lead negociations that must now go forward for how the labour NZF/Greens coalition will then be formed.
Common sense says, we need to make this agreement a very ‘durable’ settlement as we want a long serving coalition this time to survive the onslought of vicous backlash the MSM and the National propagandists will relentlessly throw at the labour lead coalition.
I am very confident that the coalition leaders in place will whether that vicious right wing insult.
Well said LPRENT.
It will be interesting how the long-term ecological, social, and cultural perspectives of Maoritanga mesh with Douglas/English/National(ist) neo-liberal theory
When is the next budget due?
June/July I believe .. before the next financial year.
If it is a coalition with National, then I suspect that is when we will find out about the National support of Whānau Ora.
For that matter we will find out then with a coalition with Labour as well.
Changes to current financial year budget allocations wanted/necessary as a result of either a NZF/National coalition or a Labour/NZF/Greens coalition, such as withdrawal of support for Whanau Ora, can/will be made through the Supplementary Estimates process.
This Supplementary Estimates process is used throughout the year to make changes to budgetary allocations etc after the formal Budget for the year has been finally passed by the House. (See Treasury Overview link in 2.1.2.1.)
But it is also the normal process used to make changes to/replace the existing Budget where a change of government takes place during the course of the standard financial year, so there is no need to wait for the next Budget and financial year.
Yeah. But we are talking large amounts of dosh here. I suspect that you can’t just deallocate that kind of budget from organisations who have been promised it easily. Usually it would have to budgeted and enabling legislation passed and then a period of time for everything to wind down.
Usually easiest to do at budget time.
The central govt financial year is 1 July to 30 June.
The budget process begins in Oct/Nov with Ministries and Departments preparing their budget bids for monies, new projects etc for the following financial year and starting discussions with their Ministers. These preparations and discussions etc continue in the new calendar year, with things then moving into wider ‘sector’ budget bids/negotiations – eg justice , education, health sectors, etc. leading to finalisation of teh government’s overall budget drafts and decisions being completed in about April, and the final Budget being presented to the House in the second half of May.
In other words, the timing of the general election – and this coalition negotiation and decision period – actually works in well the annual budgetary process. A few more weeks of coalition negotiation would not negatively affect the budgetary process IMHO (having worked through this process many times over the years).
A lot of the types of policy and policy priorities negotiations being undertaken in the current coalition negotiations are very like the budgetary priority negotiations that go on each year in an established government environment – so in fact a good amount of the usual budgetary preparatory work may be well advanced.
Further to the above, here is a link to a Treasury overview of the budgetary process.
http://www.treasury.govt.nz/budget/process
IMO the coalition negotiations are somewhat akin to the Executive phase of the process in the description and flow chart – in particular the Strategic phase.
This overview provides further links at the bottom of the page to more detailed information on the process and timelines.
“It will be interesting how the long-term ecological, social, and cultural perspectives of Maoritanga mesh with Douglas/English/National(ist) neo-liberal theory
Surely the opportunity to see this was in the last 3 terms, with the Maori Party in government with the Nats? After all, while Winston and some other notable NZF MPs may be Maori, he’s never (to my knowledge, anyway) been a proponent of Maori kaupapa or Treaty rights.
Good point.
“Would’t it be loverly” if a Government was formed which could work with an Opposition to form long term solutions for long term problems. Water. Housing. Health. Education.
Perfectly said ianmac. 100%
The fact that our system is absolutely rooted in the idea that Government and Opposition and must forever been in conflict with each other, is the fundamental flaw in our democracy. A flaw the CCCP is exposing with ruthless efficiency. (Not that their one party state is without it’s shortcomings either.)
What we lack is a global perspective on WHY we do governance, what it’s values and purpose should be. Once we understand that, then deciding how to achieve it, and what the structural details should be (quite different to the clapped out mess we have right now) … would all be a lot easier.
Basically I’m saying that while politics has always interested me, it’s daily perturbations and meanderings actually don’t much of my attention. What I want to see is a massive and total transformation, one that places service to the people, the environment and long-term well-being of both at the immovable centre of it’s deliberations.
It also explains why even the modest changes TOP were offering held an innate appeal for me. I was under no illusion Morgan was going to turn NZ into any kind of niravana, but at least he was trying something new.
We’re so far away from what I dream I’m not sure which is more ridiculous, me or the clown show we call Parliament.
Correct although I’m pretty sure that that’s an over generalisation. Some of us do understand why we need and do governance. Some of us see governance as a way to enrich themselves and their mates.
I’d like to see that but, while we have a top-down hierarchical system we won’t get it. Again, representative democracy was designed to actually prevent democracy and leave the real power in the hands of the few. It’s how our power assets got sold off against the wishes of the people.
To do that the we actually need to get rid of ‘government’ and just have parliament with each member then voting how their voters want.
In fact, that was how representative democracy was envisioned. The problem being that, within a very short time, political parties arose and we ended up with adversarial system of bi-partisanship which we’re now need to correct
The ideal of a due process approach is sound in principle, but my feeling is that the insincerity the Gnats have shown over their last nine years of government is likely to make any extended process ineffectual. If there’s one lesson we learned from 1996 it is that time to form coalitions does not guarantee quality. That requires commitments to the future of NZ and personal qualities that increasingly many people feel that MPs lack.
I wouldn’t mind being proved wrong, if Winston reformed the vile and self-serving wreck of a party that once was not utterly despicable. But I don’t expect it.
During Winston’s tenure as Treasurer with National, Shipley/English wanted to privatise Wellington Airport. Winston refused. He was sacked. Shipley lost the subsequent election.
Don’t you think Stuart that Winston’s stand was with merit?
Winston swore before the election that he would not go with National. Although your instance is positive the overall outcome was not positive for NZ (imho).
Link?
Can’t you use Google? Most of us remember the betrayal like it was yesterday.
but since you probably can’t use Google:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/613879/i-The-rise-and-descent-of-Winston-Peters-i
I back you up there Stuart as we 230 at a public meeting in Gisborne in september and heard winston say NZF cannot go with a National Government as their policies conflict with NZF policies in almost every policy so the party is opposed.
He was standing under his election poster saying “Had enough”?
BOO!!!!
No he didn’t although he certainly gave that impression (at Michael Laws encouragement I believe (IIRC, he was NZ1st strategist for the 1996 election)). And it was on that impression that NZ1st got such a large part of the vote and why NZ1st lost so much in the 1999 election.
And, no, Bob Jones is not a credible witness.
Frank McSkasy quoted six instances awhile back – this is a truth Winston doesn’t get to edit. He lied his arse off.
Not sure there’s much reason to prefer Michael Laws to Bob Jones frankly.
Link?
IIRC, Michael Laws was Winston’s campaign manager during the 1996 election. So what the difference here is that what Laws was saying was Winston’s actual strategy. And I learned all this in pols101 at Otago Uni.
Couldn’t find it – but I was in the Alliance in 1996 – we remember what Winston promised. And what he delivered.
As for Michael Laws, I knew him. People don’t change, they just become more true to type. Laws is in ORC now, by a margin of about five votes. Very chummy with ACT for some reason.
National’s insincerity over the last nine years should have had all their MPs in jail. Then they may actually start learning that such corruption isn’t going to be tolerated.
If we have a new government then I do hope that they’ll look at out pathetic anti-corruption laws and do something with them. An MP shouldn’t be able to keep on lying the way that Joyce and English did without consequences.
Agreed – but there’s probably two parts of this – the restoration of real parliamentary questioning and protocols around it – such as ministerial resignations for non-performance or misleading the house. And long overdue audits of low quality public spending on Gnat cronies and consultants.
Really quite different things, and I expect Labour’s focus will be more on things like building and regional development. Best they don’t let the sleaze wriggle away though – or it will be back.
+111
Brexit plan “in paralysis” ..
“Ministers are expected to confirm on Thursday that the government has been forced to delay bringing the EU withdrawal bill back to the House of Commons for a second time, as it seeks to persuade Tory rebels to drop their backing for hostile amendments.
MPs on both sides of the house had expected debate on the next stage of the key Brexit bill to begin next week but with Theresa May at risk of suffering a string of defeats at the hands of Conservative rebels, the government has set aside more time to prepare its response.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/18/brexit-strategy-in-paralysis-as-eu-withdrawal-bill-delayed
I ask – with some hesitancy, given the rebarbative tone of your asterisked footnote – whether in referring to National’s “adjudication” of the responsibility of government, you actually intended “abdication”. Seems a better fit with the context, that’s all. Just saying. Sorry.
Right Honourable Obtrectator: you should refer this issue to the gentleman writing as ‘lprent’.
Yeah you are right. The joys of writing before work, and publishing without a good review/edit.
I noticed a number of other fractured sentences as well. So I cleaned those up too while I waited for a cross-compiles to finish.
One point. It is common practise to call what hoskins etc force on us “opinions”. They are NOT opinions. An opinion is something a person believes. Most of what we are presented with is that which is intended to influence our opinions or mislead us . This is not “opinion” as it is not founded on genuine views, rather it is that which will engender a particular response in its audience. The correct term to use for this is bullshit.
Calling it “opinion” dignifies it undeservingly
“bullshit” is too strong. I think the legal term is “leading question” or “misdirection”, perhaps ‘subliminal advertising’ .. but yes it is intended to influence opinion. It has been going on since Vance Packard wrote ‘Hidden Persuaders” some time ago. Ethics ? What ethics ? It is a market economy .. but there are also countervailing forces.
The unadorned term is “propaganda”
Correct.
‘Propaganda’ has a negative connotation, though, so it is usually termed ‘journalism’ now. 😉
(And what used to be called journalism is now ‘treason’.)
It’s all about money. If Hosking could whistle Beatles tunes for 30 minutes and raise his audience size/lifestyle profile he would.
Campbell’s TV3 audience size wasn’t too bad. They didn’t support his primary sponsor, they weren’t buying new Mazdas.
A commercial show that leans to the left is immediately up against it. Their primary audiences don’t have lots of weekends at Matakana or ease their muscles in new spa pools.
We’ve had hit topical shows that lean to the left and draw audience from all over the political spectrum in the past. The successes generally seem to revolve around humour, satire etc.
All this talk of stable government is nonsense – it’s as if people have forgotten about the existence of the entire public service and all the government departments. If they were to fall over we really would be in trouble but otherwise the only people who suffer when the “government” is unstable are the people in power at the time – which would explain why they are always banging on about it.
It’s not got anything to do with stability as you say. What it is is a preference for a particular type of government, one that allows the psychopaths to keep screwing over the nation.
Businesses like ‘stable’ government because the laws don’t get changed on them in ways that they don’t like. So, they tend to prefer National governments which will make laws that they like and term them ‘stable’ while Labour led governments tend to make laws they don’t like and so they get termed ‘unstable’.
Well you all no that I have my hope’s pined on a NZ First Labour Green’s new Government but C`est la vie life goes on be proud of whom you are your culture and your people .
As for Brit exit well we don’t want Great Britain in the claps of those idiot neo liberal’s
That would be a disaster for all of us . The big picture is that Labour and the Greens should be targeting the low hanging fruit of our political system and front candidates for all our local elections as they have a Major influence on our environment and lives local councils Kia Kaha
PS please make a donation to the Standard to help Ipernt maintain this web site Thanks Ka Pai
Winston would make a pretty interesting Minister of Economic Development.
Would be good to see MBIE do something practical beyond handing out little grants and regulating little bits of the economy.
Whichever kind of government Winston goes in for, he would be well set to push prosperity into the forgotten regions again.
I would like to see the day that people stop bemoaning the loss of FPP. Then we would be able to improve MMP or even change it for another form of proportional representation. But at the moment, those would would like further improvements are humstrung by any debate having to be about MMP versus FPP. I think in another 20 years after a lot of baby boomers and older have died off, there will be less support for FPP.
proportional representation is essential but i don’t believe we have the best form.
stv is better and it works even if the electorate doesn’t understand it in detail
We have STV in Dunedin local elections and the sheer number of votes does dissuade some from voting (unless you give them a preranked list and a pen and stand over them while they fill the form in – which doesn’t feel entirely democratic). The way I look at it is; MMP produces a more proportional result than FPP, if the electoral commission’s 2012 recommendations were to be enacted by an incoming government (lowering the threshold to 4% & removing coat-tailing), then it would be expected to do even better. “Best” means different things to different people.
I like your idea DSpare.
4% and removing coat tailing. Just ease off is the idea – down from 5 to 4%, don’t need to cut more, treat our politics as a fragile plant, not to be savagely pruned or over fertilised.
Well ,we are all on tenterhooks,… and if we were camping outdoors ? , … we could say ‘the excitement is in tents ‘ ….
“we could say ‘the excitement is in tents ‘ of thousands.
I’d agree with most of this although I personally think the Maori party made a very bad blunder in teaming up with National. Most Maori I know to their credit are socialist and left leaning. If they rise again in their current form I’d be very surprised.
And yes its good to see the talks progressing and NZF not rushed by the endless right leaning bleating from the MSM who seem to live in FPP fantasy land for the most part.
Whateever eventuates I hope Peters holds to the key tenants of focusing on the needs of New Zealanders and ensures the vile TPPA business stays dead.
The Guardian has opened a livethread on the NZF decision, and it is always interesting to see how Aotearoa is percieved overseas (most recently in the casual reference to; “Panamanian companies owned by New Zealand trusts”, in an article on Maltese blogger Galizia’s murder). Claire Phipps summation seems on point:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2017/oct/19/new-zealand-election-winston-peters-prime-minister-bill-english-jacinda-ardern-live
One pm thursday still no announcement yet, so;——-
So I look at this excellent stuff LPRENT said about other Counties with MMP.
it seems that the sky does not fall in if we have no government yet, so in this window of “twylight zone” maybe we all need to give all these ‘negociators’ time to thrash out the best result for their’clients’ who are us as the public who pay these “high priced” public servants” to look after our interests firstly.
“We have rational caretaker governments these days who unlike the born to rule stupidity of the National caretaker government of 1984, actually operate in the nation’s interest. That is, in my opinion, because they always have had to operate in cooperation with other political organisations to even form a government. That is what the voters keep voting for – politicians are servants of the public, not their autocratic masters.”
almost 2pm and still no announcement yet
Tut tut… Don’t forget the artifice of Daylight Saving. We have falsified the clock, and afternoon in natural terms now lasts till well after 7pm.
How come he doesn’t have any idea which way he’s going? No idea? After all this time and effort. Is he playing ‘who blinks first’ with one of them? I know this all takes time, but at what stage does it turn into farce? Grrrr!!!
But it is a waiting game; -just like bidding on property or placing a proposition in a EOI (expression of interest) .
And the process has been pushed with exreme pressure from the MSM side which was unhelpful here.
I for one wouuld not care to have another autocratic national Government if it means we need to give these three coalition potential parties need more time to make serious conclussion agreements that will last at least three terms as it will take this long to get the country straightened up from nine years of the National wrecking ball.
Farce or Force? I know which one I would rather have.
greywarshark
I’d rather have inclussion rather than exclussion.
Winnie will be playing the role of hostage taker in the next blockbuster movie.
And he’ll have some fiendish Bond-esque nickname (The Puppet Master? The Gargoyle? The Renegade? Monsieur Bauble?..)
lol yeah, and I know the media will be great at playing the role of the ineffectual police squad.
How come he doesn’t have any idea which way he’s going.
Don’t believe it. He knows exactly where he’s going. He’s doing some last minute bargaining in order to up the stakes and leverage more out of the chosen party.
I wonder if he will come to a decision “Just in time” for the 6pm news?
Coincidentally, of course.
That would be my bet.
Why? He’s going to lead and hog the news today no matter when he announces.
Because then he can talk for as long as he likes to the biggest audience he can get without journalists putting spin on it or editors hacking him up into highlights.
EVERYTHING is about his arrogance and vanity.
+100
was thinking maybe 4:20 was a good time for an annoucement, but nah…. i think you are right with the 6pm news, or maybe 5:30 for JC on Prime.
I can just hear him:
“Comrades, I am happy to announce….”
Tease
“Oh Wi-in-ston Peeeters…Oh Wi-in-ston Peeeeters”
Where??? … looks around…..
“Winnie, Winnie, give me your answer do ,
It’s quite spinny, figuring out what you’ll do.
“It won’t be a happy marriage,
You carry too much baggage.
“But it’ll be serene,
With you off the scene,
In just a year or two.”
LMFAO !!!
I dont consider it a win – win, if he chooses L+G the backlash from the media and the other side will be unbelievable, we think Meteria had it bad. To me whoever receives his blessing is actually receiving a poisoned chalice, this will not end well in my opinion.
Here’s my take.
Winston’s head says he can make more policy gains with L/G than with National. But he knows if he goes down that path that the establishment will crucify him.
He’s also said that NZ1 identified 9 different coalition options. One of them is to force a grand coalition, Nat/Lab/NZ1 … with himself as PM. I can think of a zillion conventional reasons why not, but this is a moment with possibilities. And the last one Winston will ever get.
More Minister positions for NZF demanded.
NBR ✔@TheNBR
BREAKING: Coalition announcement delayed, as NZ First demanding more ministers in govt talks, writes @robhosking 🔒 https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/nz-first-demanding-more-ministers-government-talks-rh-p-208991 …
4:39 PM – Oct 19, 2017
Though I wonder how Rob Hosking knows?
Stuff are reporting that National and NZ first are at odds over ministerial positions, maybe the gnats wont do anything for power after all.
The latest to come out of stuff’s live blog:
God, it must be funny around parliament buildings at the moment. Spies everywhere. Standing round corners, blocking all entrances and exits, hiding in cupboards, suspended from ceilings…
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/98031482/live-dday-for-new-zealand-winston-peters-to-announce-who-hell-help-govern
Mirrors round corners? Secret codes.
Latest on stuff link:
Won’t believe it unless it actually happens. 😯
Hope so Anne,
My bottle of bubbly is getting so lonely in the fridge door.
If you wanted a Labour / Green government, why didn’t you vote Labour or Green?
By crikey it’s soooo dramatic 😀
Miss Twelve has asked that I go and tell her immediately when Winston starts speaking so she can tune in.
Say not six yet,who said three,who said Thursday the next week,how many weeks ago was that. max it till then to tell,six.
Update via TVNZ…. https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/live-winston-peters-getting-close-his-big-reveal?auto=5616671306001
4:55pm The NBR is reporting there is a hold up due to the number of ministerial positions Mr Peters has requested from National.
4:50pm There are reports the Green Party will be holding a teleconference with their delegates tonight. They would need 75 per cent of all the delegates to agree in order to sign off on any deal.
4:45pm We may have a decision tonight, just waiting on Winston Peters to reveal the exact time he will be fronting media to make his much anticipated announcement. He is expected to address the nation from a podium in the Beehive Theatrette.
Thanks cinny, appreciated.
De nada 🙂
as humiliated beings,Winston,should say, your farm fence has been a ridicule of me.
Stuff is reporting (link above):
No surprise there. Labour is in a better position to respond positively because they have no current cabinet ministers to oust. Makes it difficult for the Greens but… patience is a virtue Greens. You’ve had plenty of practice so a slightly longer wait will be worth it.
1000% Anne exactly the point.
Most other countries with MMP take many months longer tocomplete the process as germany will do, as their completion is due around xmas or later.
So these msm chills and others who want things sped up should chillout.
Sneaking respect for National if they told the chiseller to get lost.
All our baubles are belong to us!
EDIT – If Labour offered him even less, even better! The old git must been choking on spleen and disappointment.
7% and he wants 5 ministers, fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
Looks like Peters legacy is baubles and the destruction of MMP.
If such malignant resentment also exemplifies the view of National party supporters towards Winston / NZ 1st…
Now is the time to say,New Zealand First,knows it.
Getting close to Labour saying,Winston,make your mind up,people are suffering.
We need to also ask what are the greens doing here?
Aren’t they also finishing their bag of goodies too?
If you National trolls want to bag NZF how about the other left wing parties to please as you are showing your strong Anti labour coalition bias.
Here we go………
And go … and go … and go.
Get to the point Winnie.
Getting his paranoia in early …