Well that deteriorated quickly

170 comments on “Well that deteriorated quickly ”

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1. Tom Jackson 1

   31 August 2014 at 9:26 am

   One last push comrades, and the perfidious Key will be removed!
   • disturbed 1.1

     31 August 2014 at 10:34 am

     100%++++++
     Opposition should lay charges to instigate an immediate police seizure of all Government files.

     Police today should be entering bee hive today to seize all computers and all records in Key’s offices, Collins, & Kaye and other minister’s implicated.

     This is urgently needed, and this should check any further damage, and send a shiver down the spines of those who destroyed our clean Government and corrupted the whole system.

     Then we can finally see justice being done.
   • Tracey 1.2

     31 August 2014 at 11:28 am

     a few weeks ago i thought that kim dotcom showing key had lied would be batted away easily… Now it could be the nail in the coffin. IF he has something showing key discussed dotcom with usa officials before the raid… Then the bigger impact is that the electorate may turn to thinking back to dirty politics and that maybe key ws closer to it all than he says
     • yeshe 1.2.1

       31 August 2014 at 11:50 am

       Reckoning it will be major, fully proven and irrevocable. And I am certain is is bigger than just Key knew about Dotcom earlier and lied about it. I’m guessing it is a reveal about spying and the breadth of what exactly has been enacted in our good peace-making name, and also upon our own citizenry.

       No reasonable Kiwi will be happy about it — my wish and my opinion this morning !

       Potential even to be the final ‘squirm and deny” !
       • Tracey 1.2.1.1

         31 August 2014 at 12:03 pm

         ;l
2. gobsmacked 2

   31 August 2014 at 9:34 am

   It’s inevitable that there will be an inquiry, and casualties, and probably prosecutions. But not until 2015.

   Cunliffe should play the statesman card now. He’s already (rightly) called for an independent commission, headed by a judge. Next step: announce that as Prime Minister he will consult the leader of the opposition, invite nominations, even allow a veto of that appointment*, so that the inquiry can be seen to be non-partisan. “Restore confidence … democracy does not belong to one party, in power or out … justice seen to be done … invite Mr Key to agree …” etc.

   That’s thousands of swing votes, right there. It’s not left v right, it’s clean v dirty. Voters saying “oh, they’re all as bad as each other” is National’s best hope – so Cunliffe should counter it, strongly.

   (*don’t worry, National won’t veto a smart choice of judge. It would cost them dear).
   • Anne 2.1

     31 August 2014 at 10:27 am

     Cunliffe should play the statesman card now.

     And that is exactly how he played it on The Nation just now. On top of the facts as we know it thus far… clear, concise, measured and prime-ministerial.
     • TheContrarian 2.1.1

       31 August 2014 at 10:53 am

       Yeah Cunliffe played it very cool this morning
     • Tom Jackson 2.1.2

       31 August 2014 at 11:15 am

       Well, I think he needs to smash Key over the head with it in the next debate.

       National = corruption, disunity, chaos

       Labour = clean, unified, rational
       • Colonial Viper 2.1.2.1

         31 August 2014 at 12:17 pm

         I think Cunliffe does need “to smash Key over the head with it” but the sledgehammer head must be wrapped in the fine silk weave of dignified statesmanship.

         Delegate the negative slamming to Robertson & others.
         • Tom Jackson 2.1.2.1.1

           31 August 2014 at 2:52 pm

           Splitting the difference, eh CV?
     • Tigger 2.1.3

       31 August 2014 at 11:35 am

       Yes, he hit the right notes. He’s looking very Prime Ministerial.
3. Rich 3

   31 August 2014 at 9:34 am

   The house that was valued at around 22 million that sold for 43 million that one?

   Is that a 21 (43m-22m) million dollar bribe (tax free) that I can smell there?
   • locus 3.1

     31 August 2014 at 10:19 am

     Tax writeoff
     Bribe
     Money laundering

     Take your pick – has to be investigated ay
   • Tom Jackson 3.2

     31 August 2014 at 11:17 am

     It’s worse, since it was bought by the Oravida people.

     No wonder Key didn’t want to investigate Collins’ Oravida stunt properly.
4. weka 4

   31 August 2014 at 9:35 am

   Two questions –

   Why was Feeley specifically targeted? Is it just because he was doing his job and they would have targeted anyone in that position, or was it because he wasn’t taking orders/playing the game?

   Why did Rawshark not have the smoking gun email?
   • Awww 4.1

     31 August 2014 at 11:30 am

     “Why did Rawshark not have the smoking gun email?”
     Who says he didn’t? There’s nothing in the rules to say hackers must release all information before anyone else.

     And in any case is it fair to expect a hard working hacker to sift through all this vile shit all day? What would be worse than spending time with these people.
     • Tracey 4.1.1

       31 August 2014 at 11:36 am

       Rawshark says he didnt
       • Colonial Viper 4.1.1.1

         31 August 2014 at 12:45 pm

         More than one player is in this network gunning to take the Key Government offline.
         • Tracey 4.1.1.1.1

           31 August 2014 at 1:08 pm

           Is ACT trying to use this to do a Phoenix? The colin party are nut jonbs, is ACT ( odgers, hooton), making a last ditch attempt to save ACT?
           • yeshe 4.1.1.1.1.1

             31 August 2014 at 1:15 pm

             with 0.2% of the vote ? need to be a very very small ditch wouldn’t it ?
             • Tracey …

               31 August 2014 at 1:39 pm

               nats will bleed to ACT, NZF and or Colins Craigs Crazi party. SST started focusing on ccp lower list crazies… That will hopefully stop the bleed to them… With epsom they only need to get 2-3 % to get a few extra MPs…
               • yeshe …

                 31 August 2014 at 1:51 pm

                 I’m ashamed to say I just did a small squirm and deny at the thought …
             • phillip ure …

               31 August 2014 at 2:10 pm

               @yeshe..

               ..not so much a ‘ditch’..as a groove in the dirt…
           • Kiwiri 4.1.1.1.1.2

             31 August 2014 at 1:18 pm

             A good clean-out required and will need to disestablish the National Party.
             Former party member, Winston Peters, to step up and reconstitute the National Party. 😉
   • yeshe 4.2

     31 August 2014 at 11:34 am

     weka .. Rawshark downloaded only a limited few months worth from Slater … this email may have been outside the parameters ?
5. Ian 5

   31 August 2014 at 9:38 am

   WOW- you and Matthew Hooton are on the same page! On Q&A Hoiton saying bring in the Police. The worm has turned
   • weka 5.1

     31 August 2014 at 9:43 am

     I’ve been thinking that Hooton might be one of the few people in this whole mess who took the precaution of not incriminating himself in cyberspace or hardcopy. Of course, he is still up to his neck in it, and why the MSM are still using him as an independent commentator is a big part of the problem. Fools.
     • CnrJoe 5.1.1

       31 August 2014 at 10:07 am

       not independent, out here for us to see his spinning spinning spinning
       • weka 5.1.1.1

         31 August 2014 at 10:29 am

         Too many people will give credence to Hooton simply because he writes for the NBR and RNZ talks to him every week about politics as if his views are something other than spin.
         • Kiwiri 5.1.1.1.1

           31 August 2014 at 11:21 am

           Hooton’s star is rising again and regaining more relevance when “The Blogger” is being put away.
           • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1.1

             31 August 2014 at 12:48 pm

             It’s not saying much, but Hooton was never operating at quite the same scum level as Slater and Lusk.
             • weka …

               31 August 2014 at 1:03 pm

               Bet he likes to think of himself as the nice one 😉
             • tricledrown …

               31 August 2014 at 1:28 pm

               CV Hooton is just like Key keeping enough distance as not to get bogged in the mucKey murKey mire putting on the nice guy front while quietly condoning and colluding in the background Hooton’s name pops up to many times in Hagers book and then his involvement with the intimidation of Nicky Hager address release with Cactus Kate!
             • David H …

               31 August 2014 at 3:02 pm

               Yeah but Hooton is still upto his neck in this.
         • Lanthanide 5.1.1.1.2

           31 August 2014 at 1:23 pm

           He is on the segment “from the right and the left”, and he is introduced as being a representative of the right.

           I don’t think anyone is claiming he is independent, but perhaps they may not be emphasising how involved he really is – on the other hand he isn’t a member of National AFAIK.
           • weka 5.1.1.1.2.1

             31 August 2014 at 1:33 pm

             He’s an independent commentator from the right (or he is supposed to be). As opposed to say a National MP, or staffer. That’s the point, is to have someone with a rightwing perspective whose job isn’t to push the party line or who has conflicts of interest. There’s nothing wrong with RNZ using right and left wing people, but there is something wrong with using someone who is intricately involved in the stories being examined.
           • Tracey 5.1.1.1.2.2

             31 August 2014 at 1:41 pm

             he was touted as a possible candidate for ACT in Epsom
         • Not a PS Staffer 5.1.1.1.3

           31 August 2014 at 5:36 pm

           The NBR have him because he is close to the National Party. RNZ and others have him because they are afraid of him, Slater, Farrar et al. They are afraid because they have all compromised themselves with Farrar, Slater and Hooton at some stage.
           This explosion of revulsion will change the media map.
           • weka 5.1.1.1.3.1

             31 August 2014 at 7:03 pm

             Do you have an example of how RNZ have compromised themselves?
     • Tracey 5.1.2

       31 August 2014 at 11:31 am

       trying to help ACT?

       He appears to have wanted to assist odgers and her clients by giving them hagers street name…

       Now that odgers is revealled as the source of the emails, does that mean there is now a right and left wing conspiracy againt poor key and collins…

       How will slater be feeling, torn between collins and odgers… Will odgers get double? ?
   • aj 5.2

     31 August 2014 at 2:14 pm

     Almost civil war between Boag and Hooten on Radiolive this morning, with Mark Sainsbury and Mike Williams amazed bystanders.
     Between 10-11am
     • adam 5.2.1

       31 August 2014 at 3:14 pm

       That starts at 10:10 and goes for at least 10 minutes.

       Character assassination and defamation accusations. Boag sounded overly defensive, and while it can be said I’m no fan of Hooten – the personal attacks by Boag are really quite unnecessary and vicious.

       Murky – under statement of the Week Duncan Garner.
       • adam 5.2.1.1

         31 August 2014 at 3:24 pm

         Listening to more – Boag is in full on personal attack mode.

         Wow and Hooten spills a few more – At 10:40
         • Paul 5.2.1.1.1

           31 August 2014 at 3:43 pm

           Civil War is almost the most bitter.
       • Paul 5.2.1.2

         31 August 2014 at 3:32 pm

         Toxic people.
     • Anne 5.2.2

       31 August 2014 at 3:56 pm

       Have just listened. Incredible. They did calm down in the latter stages of the hour long debate, and if there was a winner I would pick Mike Williams. He stayed out of the Boag/Hooton stoush but when he did get a chance to speak he came across all sense and sensibility in comparison.
     • BLiP 5.2.3

       31 August 2014 at 4:07 pm

       ‘

       Woah!! That’s crazy shit from both Boag and Hooton. As Duncan Garner asked, is this the start of the National Ltd™ rats fighting tooth and claw amongst themselves in order to get off the sinking ship without them personally being sucked down into the vortex with it? Delicious. And well done Mike Williams, too. After Matthew Hooton detailed new revelations of curruption from the Prime Minister and the Minister of Everything, Steven Joyce, Mike points out “yet you are still going to vote National”. Kinda sums up the core values of those at the heart of the functionings of the National Party.

       Thanks for the headsup, aj, well worth a listen. Might even download it for posterity.
       • Paul 5.2.3.1

         31 August 2014 at 4:13 pm

         Some clever person could make a clever video based on the most heated parts.
       • aj 5.2.3.2

         31 August 2014 at 6:23 pm

         My pleasure.
         Yes, Mikes point is one that I have been repeating. Anyone voting National is endorsing the corrupt behaviour that has been exposed.
     • joe90 5.2.4

       31 August 2014 at 4:25 pm

       Mathew is rather pissed off.

       http://ruminator.co.nz/is-the-prime-ministers-office-corrupt/
       • Draco T Bastard 5.2.4.1

         31 August 2014 at 5:48 pm

         Just read that one – looks like the brown stuff is about to hit the whirly thing.
6. BLiP 6

   31 August 2014 at 9:40 am

   ‘

   The police cannot be trusted to properly investigate this matter. Just consider the police investigation into John Banks. The only body left in New Zealand which might be prepared to look properly into this matter, IMHO, is the senior tier of the judiciary. Even then, the legal fraternity is so tightly interwoven and practised at arse-covering there can be no certainty that New Zealand will be well served by its involvement in exposing endemic malfeasance.

   Any investigation which does eventuate should also consider the involvement of the media. Failfax has revealed yet another circumstancial example of how the New Zealand Fox News Herald has been involved in a criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. It is now apparent that even the newspaper’s Editorial is now available to those carrying out “hits”.

   . . . One piece of chaos and mayhem cooked up by Graham, Slater and Odgers involved the latter writing an op-ed for the New Zealand Herald in April 2012.

   This column – run without disclosure that Odgers was allegedly being paid at the time by Hotchin and described by her in emails as a “hit” – is now heavy with irony.

   “Hanover was deliberately sensationalised by leaks, drip-fed to media and anti-big business bloggers as their conduit,” she wrote.

   “The FMA played a dirty game.”

   A dirty game, indeed, and one which leaves the New Zealand Fox News Herald, and other media landscape major players, covered in filth. No doubt the only reason Failfax mentioned it is to take a swipe at its opposition and distract from its own murky involvement.
   • wyndham 6.1

     31 August 2014 at 10:22 am

     “The police cannot be trusted to properly investigate this matter. Just consider the police investigation into John Banks. The only body left in New Zealand which might be prepared to look properly into this matter, IMHO, is the senior tier of the judiciary. Even then, the legal fraternity is so tightly interwoven and practised at arse-covering there can be no certainty that New Zealand will be well served by its involvement in exposing endemic malfeasance.”

     In a nutshell, Blip ! I wouldn’t trust the NZ gendarmerie to investigate anything as serious as this. We are too small a country and the only possible source of impartiality is the judiciary. And make sure that Key doesn’t stipulate the “terms of inquiry.”
   • Tracey 6.2

     31 August 2014 at 11:35 am

     is it a crime to try to intimidate and interfere with an fma or sfo witness? Mr slater and mr graham, mark and redacted seem to have this as their purpose.

     Maybe we appoint the Canadian Judge who did the bain report…
     • Kiwiri 6.2.1

       31 August 2014 at 11:58 am

       Interesting. We may need to bring in a deeply experienced (and perhaps retired) judge from overseas to ensure impartiality and restore trust.
   • CentreOfLeft 6.3

     31 August 2014 at 11:48 am

     Get Graeme McCready on it!
7. Richies McClaw 7

   31 August 2014 at 9:42 am

   Is this New Zealand or Fiji?
   • Draco T Bastard 7.1

     31 August 2014 at 11:27 am

     Just the standard buildup of corruption in some of the rich that happens to every civilisation as it matures. It’s the major reason why we can’t afford the rich as that corruption is what will destroy our society.
8. Dont worry. Be happy 8

   31 August 2014 at 9:50 am

   It seems to me that Matt Nippert is no fool. Credit where credit is due.

   And love the headline….”All the Financier’s Men” ….so Nixon downfall…so Key’s background.
9. Richies McClaw 9

   31 August 2014 at 9:53 am

   Is it possible for anyone to go to jail over this? Its looking more and more like the Hanover investigation was compromised.

   It makes me feel sick that the MOJ position, one that is to serve the public interest, was apparently used to defend a man who ripped off many people of their livelihood and life savings. If there is a positive rather than speculative link identified, and the money from the fraudster was reaching Cabinet, that is an unprecedented situation in this country (as far as i am aware) and the extent of the damage it does to our image of being a corrupt-free nation (and public faith in government) cannot be overstated.
   • yeshe 9.1

     31 August 2014 at 10:42 am

     might I suggest the 16,000 Hanover investors are changing votes as we write ?? angry they will be …
     • Bearded Git 9.1.1

       31 August 2014 at 11:12 am

       @yeshe

       That would be 50,000 with family and friends.

       This is something for Labour and the Greens to push on.
       • yeshe 9.1.1.1

         31 August 2014 at 11:19 am

         Yes indeed, BG. Collins could seem to have cost them $half a billion when they had already been rorted by Hotchins and Hanover in the first place. I would be seething mad.

         Enough votes to change an election, n’est-ce pas ?
         • Richies McClaw 9.1.1.1.1

           31 August 2014 at 11:32 am

           The type of people with money to invest in ventures like Hanover are also the type of people who are likely to be National voters. Skimming Kiwiblog, it seems the strategy has shifted to “this government may be ugly, but imagine how ugly it will be with the left coalition!”, i don’t know if that is a winning slogan.
           • yeshe 9.1.1.1.1.1

             31 August 2014 at 11:56 am

             Ironic National slogan is “Working for New Zealand” and how it has now acquired an automatic and indelible question mark.
           • Graeme 9.1.1.1.1.2

             31 August 2014 at 8:53 pm

             I wonder how may Hanover victims where in the group of party faithful behind Collins when she pulled the pin. Could explain some of their expressions.

             Collins could find it really interesting campaigning around Papakura, if she even shows her face again.
   • Kiwiri 9.2

     31 August 2014 at 11:16 am

     Key documents still exist or have been conveniently destroyed?

     Missed opportunity by Key, oops, the PM’s Office: below at 12 🙂
     • Kiwiri 9.2.1

       31 August 2014 at 12:31 pm

       Coincidentally, this popped up on Youtube:

       Schenck and the burning of documents
     • Kiwiri 9.2.2

       31 August 2014 at 12:36 pm

       Coincidentally, just came across this on Youtube:

       Schenck and the burning of documents
       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyMEM2yl1KI

       Looked for a translation and saw this:
       http://hitlerparody.wikia.com/wiki/Schenck_and_the_burning_of_documents
       • Kiwiri 9.2.2.1

         31 August 2014 at 1:07 pm

         Der Untergang.
10. Tautoko Viper 10

    31 August 2014 at 10:18 am

    JK’s song going around in his head “We’re never be Royals…..” One tick box unticked for sure….(knighthood). Never mind, John. There are plenty of us fellow peasants that will never have titles.
    • Bill 10.1

      31 August 2014 at 10:35 am

      The irony is, that if you knew the history of knights and knighthoods, then John Key would now be on the cusp of being a sterling candidate. 😉
      • adam 10.1.1

        31 August 2014 at 3:30 pm

        Would he not need a scandal with a dominatrix, to make that one stick Bill?
11. yeshe 11

    31 August 2014 at 10:25 am

    And Micky — because of all this, on The Nation special just now, Winston appears to have resiled from his usual ” we will talk first with the biggest party”.

    Don’t have actual words he used, but it is plain he wishes not to be automatically assumed as going with National in light of today’s revelations .. very plain to me at any rate. I will post link as soon as available.
    • weka 11.1

      31 August 2014 at 10:31 am

      Interesting. So the rest of Slatergate didn’t bother him, but this does.
      • yeshe 11.1.1

        31 August 2014 at 10:40 am

        Good morning weka ! No, I think it all bothers him, he makes that plain … link not there yet, but it was very interesting and am eager to know your take on it. I think it is a revised stance .. but I have popcorn ready …
        • weka 11.1.1.1

          31 August 2014 at 12:01 pm

          I havent’ seen today’s video yet, but what I was meaning is that after Hager’s book came out Peters was still saying the largest party is who he would talk to first ie National. So what was in Dirty Politics wasn’t enough for him to consider them unsuitable for govt. But the SFO stuff is. I think this is interesting, because it implies that he has high standards, but the deeper implication is that he knows which side his bread is buttered on (ie more people will vote for him if he now makes a stand). Those two implications aren’t inherent contradictions btw, which is why Peters is so tricksy.
          • yeshe 11.1.1.1.1

            31 August 2014 at 2:11 pm

            @weka .. link is here for you The Nation this morning … WP starts at around 12.28

            The three interviews are all excellent .. David Cunliffe, Metiria Turei and then WP.

            http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/thenation/politicians-react-to-judith-collins-resignation-2014083113

            let me know if you think he has changed his position …
            • weka 11.1.1.1.1.1

              31 August 2014 at 2:29 pm

              Thanks yeshe. I didn’t hear Peters saying he’s resiled from his previous statement. I heard him restating his long held belief, that NZF has the right to not say what they will do until after the election. One might be tempted to say that’s a swing away from National, but it’s just as likely he is doing that for vote catching reasons as for ethical ones. And I doubt it’s any real inference about not going to the largest party first, I think he’s just finding himself in a rock and hard place, because ethically the only real move now is left and obviously he doesn’t want to declare that.

              In the first half of the interview he sounds muddled. Second half he is clearer, and he does acknowledge that this is a more difficult election because of the issues, but he says that both sides are causing that, and the little parties too ie only NZF is going to keep NZ politics honest and do the right thing 🙄
      • greywarbler 11.1.2

        31 August 2014 at 10:44 am

        Winston the master of remaining vertical, alive and hot has his ice skates on and his skills honed to avoid the dangerous thin ice.
        • yeshe 11.1.2.1

          31 August 2014 at 11:22 am

          while calling for a full Royal Commission .. maybe this one could be Whinebox ?
    • Awww 11.2

      31 August 2014 at 11:47 am

      Winston is thriving in this environment, a bit like a fugus does in warmth and moisture.
      He is interviewing well and is not displaying his reptilian side at the moment. I expect we will see a NZFirst Deputy Prime Minister shortly.
      • yeshe 11.2.1

        31 August 2014 at 11:52 am

        (Well, I do like mushrooms !)

        But a DPM with whom ??
        • weka 11.2.1.1

          31 August 2014 at 12:04 pm

          Please stop talking up Peters. Look at NZF polling and GP polling and tell me why Peters should be DPM.
          • yeshe 11.2.1.1.1

            31 August 2014 at 12:14 pm

            you asking me weka ? I’m not intending to talk him up, but I am trying to honestly observe what is happening. nb I didn’t suggest he would be DPM.
            • weka 11.2.1.1.1.1

              31 August 2014 at 12:18 pm

              More aimed at Awww, but trying to keep my comment in the right threading 🙂
              • yeshe …

                31 August 2014 at 12:27 pm

                all good … (but I do like mushrooms !) 🙂
          • Tracey 11.2.1.1.2

            31 August 2014 at 12:19 pm

            exactly
          • tricledrown 11.2.1.1.3

            31 August 2014 at 12:41 pm

            Peters will demand Key stands down and resigns from parliament English will have 2 years as PM Winston deputy 3rd year Winston as PM!
            • yeshe 11.2.1.1.3.1

              31 August 2014 at 1:19 pm

              I don’t assume Key will be there to stand down from anywhere …
            • Skinny 11.2.1.1.3.2

              31 August 2014 at 1:19 pm

              This is a lot more serious than what the aveage Kiwi may think. It goes to the very core of a transparent democracy. The election should be holted and John Key stood down and replaced by Bill English till a full Royal Commision Enquiry is concluded.

              I have been contacting ex pat Kiwi’s reminding them to vote. Here is a reply I received early this morning. This is a common theme emerging and is not isolated. Note: My friend is married to a Swiss partner and they have the same rivalry as Kiwi & Aussies.;

              Hello *********
               
              All very well to tell me vote – but who for?
               
              Asked dad and hes not sure either – all sounds a bit dishonest on the political front in NZ at the moment.
               
              And don’t tell me Kim.com – the day I vote for a german or a party associated with one will be a sad day!!
               
              Got any other suggestions?
               
              It was good to hear from you and hope alls well.
               
              We are all ok – getting older but not wiser.
               
              Let me knopw your voting advice
               
              Love Karen
              • yeshe …

                31 August 2014 at 2:13 pm

                bit racist re Germans isn’t it ? what a shame.
12. Kiwiri 12

    31 August 2014 at 11:11 am

    And the vital documents and hard drives need to be seized and protected but John Key has just missed the opportunity to ensure sending in a squad of 76 officers assisted by two helicopters to make a dawn raid on Collin’s home and office!!!!

    Maybe his Office was feeling comfortable and relaxed.
    • Bearded Git 12.1

      31 August 2014 at 11:15 am

      Key had never heard of Collins until this week.
    • yeshe 12.2

      31 August 2014 at 11:20 am

      well, it was at the end of the day …

      (and love yours BG)
13. Tracey 13

    31 August 2014 at 11:43 am

    Is ti murphy herald on sunday editor…

    Their editorial is as much a veiled attack on discreditting slater as any criticism of collins… And defending itself

    His emails drip with boastfulness and bluster. He exaggerates in the same email his influence over Herald coverage of Feeley, which was nil, and the extent of contact and information he had with a Herald reporter, which was limited. “
14. weka 14

    31 August 2014 at 11:56 am

    Want a diagram of the SFOgate connections?

    https://twitter.com/DebsHancock/status/505843027131109376
    • Draco T Bastard 14.1

      31 August 2014 at 12:31 pm

      Ha, was just about to post that as well 😀
    • BLiP 14.2

      31 August 2014 at 4:21 pm

      ‘

      Interesting. The flowchart leaves out the John Key connection and also the suggestion of personal malice on the part of Carrick Graham. Does Graham similarly suffer “daddy isues” like Cameron Slater? Payback double, and all that.
    • weka 14.3

      31 August 2014 at 6:35 pm

      Updated diagram!

      https://twitter.com/DebsHancock/status/505921891035406337
15. weka 15

    31 August 2014 at 11:57 am

    Want a diagram of the SFOgate connections?

    twitter.com/DebsHancock/status/505843027131109376
    • yeshe 15.1

      31 August 2014 at 12:35 pm

      Interesting comment below that diagram suggesting Carrick Graham could have reason to seek UTU against SFO for his father’s conviction re Lombard.
    • CM 15.2

      31 August 2014 at 12:35 pm

      What’s missing in the diagram is the SIS. There is no doubt they would have been aware of all of these dealings, indeed it is a possibility that Tucker called in covert assistance to discredit Goff. Key may have never known about it. Where did this latest e-mail come from? Odgers is attributed but clearing out Collins takes the light off the fast-tracked OIA for the moment and buys time for hasty damage limitation and destruction of evidence.
      By who? If there are corrupt practices within parliament and the media why wouldn’t there be similar crookedness within the intelligence services? Much to be gained from sympathetic (and easily controlled) political masters…
      • Anne 15.2.1

        31 August 2014 at 1:25 pm

        … it is a possibility that Tucker called in covert assistance to discredit Goff. Key may have never known about it.

        I had a similar initial reaction CM, but on reflection think it is highly unlikely. Have a look at his credentials below. He was a senior Public Servant of many years standing and enjoyed the full confidence of several prime-ministers including Helen Clark.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Tucker

        It is far more likely he was ‘instructed’ to release that document to Slater.
      • weka 15.2.2

        31 August 2014 at 6:38 pm

        CM, I don’t follow. Are you saying there is a direct connection between SISgate and SFOgate? (apart from Slater). Why would the SIS have been aware of what Odgers etc were up to?
16. Tracey 16

    31 August 2014 at 12:28 pm

    When was lombard being investigated? Was Carrick getting paid by Hotchin but doing a freebie for his Dad. I note that the herald and SST refer to carrick graham but not who his Dad is
17. RedBaronCV 17

    31 August 2014 at 12:35 pm

    If they were diverting an SFO criminal investigation is there any chance of criminal prosection for ” say perverting the course of justice?” Where is a lawyer when you need one for an opinion?
    • crocodill 17.1

      31 August 2014 at 6:35 pm

      lol same place they usually are: waiting for you to agree to pay them for the advice.
18. yeshe 18

    31 August 2014 at 12:50 pm

    Hacker Rawshark says “It’s a good start” … must read just posted …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10443712/Collins-sacking-a-good-start-hacker
19. yeshe 19

    31 August 2014 at 12:52 pm

    Posted just now on Stuff ..

    Rawshark Hacker says of Collins, it’s a good start !!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10443712/Collins-sacking-a-good-start-hacker

    here be dragons !
    • Kiwiri 19.1

      31 August 2014 at 1:02 pm

      At the end of the day,
      tomorrow marks the start of the last 20 days of John Key’s dirty government.

      And the New Zealand Spring for Change.
      • Puddleglum 19.1.1

        31 August 2014 at 2:44 pm

        The ‘Kiwi Spring’?
    • David H 19.2

      31 August 2014 at 4:01 pm

      But as usual TricKey is trying to divert the book onto Collins and anyone else he can think of. He is so complicit I can’t imagine why, (oh yes I can) the MSM won’t do their jobs. But anyway here’s what what he said.

      “He thought Collins’ departure would reflect positively on his leadership because ”where I’m presented with information I’m concerned about, I deal with it and I deal with it thoroughly.”

      He said he was counting up last night and thought eight ministers had gone during his leadership.

      “I have high standards, I hold people to account. But I’m also fair, I listen to both sides of it.”

      And after reading that drivel all i could think was, “Yeah Right”
      • One Anonymous Bloke 19.2.1

        31 August 2014 at 8:19 pm

        What else is he going to say?

        “My office isn’t sure exactly which tranche of emails Rawshark has and I don’t want to do an Odgers – maybe I’ll come out clean.”
20. Anna 20

    31 August 2014 at 12:55 pm

    I’ve raised this elsewhere, but I’ll put it here too. It’s a serious question. What would it take for the Law Society to investigate and/or disbar Cactus Cate? I don’t think she should be practising, especially if she was paid to interfere with a material witness in a potential prosecution.
    • weka 20.1

      31 August 2014 at 1:14 pm

      +1
    • yeshe 20.2

      31 August 2014 at 1:24 pm

      I asked Tracey the same thing earlier on Aug 20 .. her thorough reply here for you ..

      thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20082014/#comment-870051
    • Chris 20.3

      31 August 2014 at 2:58 pm

      With respect to Tracey I don’t think that’s necessarily right. Lawyers can be struck off for, for example, committing an offence that may very well be outside of their normal course of work. It’s about whether they remain fit and proper to stay on the roll. I think someone should make a complaint about Odgers. The Law Society can also look into things on their own bat.
21. tricledrown 21

    31 August 2014 at 1:08 pm

    Right wingers bloggers getting new spinning orders wonder what their next excuses and obfuscations are going to be!
    • Kiwiri 21.1

      31 August 2014 at 1:22 pm

      blockages in their payment pipeline, thanks to disarray in the PM’s orifice
    • emergency mike 21.2

      31 August 2014 at 5:01 pm

      Anyone else notice the consistently interesting and constructive follow of discussion in this post without the usual lowbrow distraktor tr0lls?
      • Paul 21.2.1

        31 August 2014 at 5:04 pm

        I know… really pleasant.
        • yeshe 21.2.1.1

          31 August 2014 at 6:01 pm

          really fine, isn’t it ? very pleasant indeed.
        • crocodill 21.2.1.2

          31 August 2014 at 6:38 pm

          Yes reminds me of a delightful night at The Peninsula Club…
22. Lizzie 22

    31 August 2014 at 1:09 pm

    Nicely summed up. Then other smear campaign that was supposedly going on was Slater, Cactus Kate and Kathryn Rich smearing exec members of the grocery council. Shows their skills and flexibility to smear anyone willing to pay enough. Ah, the free market! 😉
23. Michael 23

    31 August 2014 at 1:39 pm

    We need something like the Fitzgerald inquiry and the resulting Independent Commission Against Corruption they’ve got in New South Wales. Of course, the ICAC has put away some corrupt Labor politicians too, so maybe our lot won’t be too keen on implementing it here.
24. Grim ReeFer 24

    31 August 2014 at 2:39 pm

    deserves a slow read, re -Cathy O

    http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2014/08/new-zealand-prime-minister-john-key-the-whale-oil-blog-and-international-organized-crime.html

    Catherine Michelle ODGERS
    fun playing around cross referencing with the below site, oh Cathy what have you been up to?
    http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/

    https://opencorporates.com/companies/nz/2098758/network

    https://opencorporates.com/officers?button=&q=lana+zamba&utf8=%E2%9C%93
    • Awww 24.1

      31 August 2014 at 3:57 pm

      “So, worst case: Odgers is a crook, directly involved in Russian mafia moneylaundering, a $1Billion US Ponzi scheme, and the largest pension fraud in Australian history. If that’s how it is, then Key, via Whale Oil, looks a little too close to her.

      Best case: Odgers is a monumentally oblivious idiot, with an astonishing knack for working with, or for, large-scale fraudsters, again and again. Even in that best case, and somehow discounting Trio Capital and the Russians altogether, it’s still only two steps from the Prime Minister to the crooks (Key => Whaleoil/Odgers => Flader/Jeeves), and that $1Billion US Ponzi, and $314Million in US penalties.”
    • Huginn 24.2

      31 August 2014 at 4:49 pm

      Richard Smith’s article in Naked Capitalism is mind blowing. Skip the first third and go straight to what he says about Cathy Odgers’ involvement with Russian money laundering.

      The Herald should have looked into this instead of giving her space to attack the regulators.

      http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/author/richard-smith
      • yeshe 24.2.1

        31 August 2014 at 6:02 pm

        and don’t forget to link it to her chop-chop email to slater in DP where she claims it’s fortunate no Russians are involved .. eye watering !
25. ianmac 25

    31 August 2014 at 3:35 pm

    The Guardian had a solid piece last week re the book Dirty Tricks. Now I am sure that NZ’s rep will be aired internationally in view of Collins stand-down. Not what we should have publicity for especially involving the Minister of Tourism.
26. disturbed 26

    31 August 2014 at 3:46 pm

    My Son is living in Germany and has done for 9 yrs.

    He is deeply disturbed & incensed at John Key and his Ministers in the National Party for running this criminal black op’s ruthless operation to undermine his country he was born in & loves dearly.

    I am passing this message onto the opposition Parties for him to request they now get together and form a forum to save our Democracy so he and future generations can live in hope in NZ.

    He believes an Independent investigation be started now and a recovery of all materials and files be collected and the whole investigation be operated totally independent of any Government agency as he has no faith in any of them after reviewing what has now been released.

    A retired senior Canadian or British Judge may be the best choice as they would be free from interference hopefully.

    My son believes this should begin from tomorrow, the 1st of September 2014.

    The election process may be required to await the outcome of these proceedings, as to be sure that any National candidates are not found guilty firstly of criminal conviction.
    • greywarbler 26.1

      31 August 2014 at 4:14 pm

      @disturbed
      I don’t know about delaying the election. If there is a delay our democracy might end up torn to shreds as it is pulled between a bunch of NACT-style curs with Labour grabbing and yanking to get some purchase and probably resorting to biting the protagonists legs.
      • Skinny 26.1.1

        31 August 2014 at 7:43 pm

        greywarbler all baby boomers remember the 81 tour and what position they took ( all but honest John). I am very worried should the election result in a third term National lead Government that civil unrest will ensue.

        Recently had dinner with friends one being an American living here, he seemed to be very alarmed with the build up of riot training by the Feds in his homeland & says same thing is being conducted in England. Then he enlighten me to the scary news that the USA marines have recently been out here training up our police force in the latest anti riot tactics.

        Sounds like big brother is tooling up for trouble. So now knowing this I’d far rather have a delayed election till we (public) get a full enquiry ‘and not something the Key administration’ has any control over. Very wary of the thought of civil disobedience on the streets of New Zealand. Not after the divisions of last time.
        • greywarbler 26.1.1.1

          31 August 2014 at 9:25 pm

          @Skinny
          I didn’t know about the riot police but have been cogitating about Tuhoe. I think they were used as a training program. Otherwise I can’t see the reasoning behind the draconian moves made. And the fact that the USA wants to set up bases here and have in Oz. And have carried out practice here. We should now be asking for Chinese joint ventures here to get a level playing field.

          But playing around with set time frames because we want answers to other unsatisfactory matters and wrongful behaviour? Dangerous. You believe it would only be temporary and there would be an election held at some firm future date. But start playing around with our practices and lawful systems, as in Christchurch, and will we be able to get back what we had. Agree once to introduce flexibility into the election date, and it creates a nasty precedent.
27. heather 27

    31 August 2014 at 4:14 pm

    I am interested in Lizzie’s comments abput Rich and Slater and the Grocery Council and their links to liqour and tobacco companied and Supermarkets, these matters have not had much air time
    • yeshe 27.1

      31 August 2014 at 4:43 pm

      all in Nicky Hager’s book ….
28. Pascals bookie 28

    31 August 2014 at 5:10 pm

    the explosive bit from the Boag Hooton meltdown today:

    http://ruminator.co.nz/is-the-prime-ministers-office-corrupt/
    • miravox 28.1

      31 August 2014 at 9:27 pm

      Thanks pb. I can’t seem to find the audio…
      • weka 28.1.1

        31 August 2014 at 9:47 pm

        Try here miravox, listen from 10.15 to 11am.

        http://thestandard.org.nz/wakeup-call-for-the-media-has-slater-done-us-all-a-favour/#comment-877057
        • miravox 28.1.1.1

          31 August 2014 at 10:31 pm

          Thanks weka. That’s an amazing performance. Who is Mathew going in to bat for here, i wonder. Odgers? She’s the only one of the team that’s taken a hit for a possibly contrived Collins resignation.
29. disturbed 29

    31 August 2014 at 5:26 pm

    Top Marks to Matthew Hooten from 1.10 on radio live this Sunday 31st August when he took down Michele Boag, after she tried to say the issue was just developed by a small group of way out theorists.

    Michele Boag showed she is a ruthless nasty piece of work, as she attacks Matthew Hooten.
    She is obviously yet another attack dog, for the hard assed National core who mercilessly attacked Matthew like a stray dog.

    Matthew simply wanted to spill the beans.
    Michele called Hooten a conspiracy theorist also!

    An unbelievable display of more reasons to have all National MPs backgrounds thoroughly checked for corruption also.

    Get Matthew on side to let the truth out.
    • Pascals bookie 29.1

      31 August 2014 at 5:30 pm

      Steady on. Hooton has his own agenda with regard to both national and his own ongoing ability to make money.
      • disturbed 29.1.1

        31 August 2014 at 6:57 pm

        PB

        Yes you are simply very correct there.

        Hooten when he said while Boag was Cussing at him s a traitor of national,he said;

        “I am calling time on these operatives”

        That deserves some credit that where we are, and want him to give evidence based on that interview today on Radio live.
        • One Anonymous Bloke 29.1.1.1

          31 August 2014 at 8:16 pm

          …as part of his plea bargain.
30. Thinker 30

    31 August 2014 at 5:38 pm

    You know, the National party “preppy-rowing-team” ad, coupled with their current woes, reminded me of that childrens’ book “The Wind In The Willows”. Straight from there, is the script for their next tv ad….

    ‘Stop it, you silly ass!’ cried the Rat, from the bottom of the boat. `You can’t do it! You’ll have us over!’

    The Mole flung his sculls back with a flourish, and made a great dig at the water. He missed the surface altogether, his legs flew up above his head, and he found himself lying on the top of the prostrate Rat. Greatly alarmed, he made a grab at the side of the boat, and the next moment–Sploosh!

    Over went the boat, and he found himself struggling in the river.

    O my, how cold the water was, and O, how very wet it felt. How it sang in his ears as he went down, down, down! How bright and welcome the sun looked as he rose to the surface coughing and spluttering! How black was his despair when he felt himself sinking again!’
31. Inky 31

    31 August 2014 at 5:48 pm

    This becomes more like a Chinese puzzle each day and I’m struggling to keep up with a lot of it. I’d be grateful if someone rather more clued-up than I am could answer a couple of questions — or at least put forward some theories.

    1: Do we know what the outcome of the campaign against Feeley was? For example, did Hotchin gain in any way? I know Feeley was still in the job a year later but is it possible the campaign made him back off or so undermined him that he eventually left?

    2: What motivation would Cupcake Collins have had to target Feeley? It seems a heck of a risk for her to take, so I’d imagine she thought she stood to gain considerably if she succeeded?

    3: If it is proven there indeed was such a campaign, would anyone be likely to face criminal charges? If so, who — Collins, Slater?

    4: If it is proven that the Herald, rather than just share information with Slater deliberately played a part in the campaign against Feeley to bring him down, would it be likely to destroy the newspaper, in other words bring about its closure?

    5: The hacker has said he did what he did not just to go after politicians but to bring down “the network”. Does anyone know what this network is and who appears to have been involved in it?
    • CM 31.1

      31 August 2014 at 8:04 pm

      What did Collins and her husband gain from the sale of Hotchin’s house to Deyi Shi, founder and chairman of Orivida?
      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11164421
    • Paul 31.2

      31 August 2014 at 8:09 pm

      A key player Carrick Graham…wasn’t his Dad Doug Graham under investigation by the SFO?
      • weka 31.2.1

        31 August 2014 at 8:14 pm

        He’s Doug Grahams’ son?!

        Connections diagram needs updating again.

        https://twitter.com/DebsHancock/status/505921891035406337
32. Ad 32

    31 August 2014 at 5:54 pm

    Key subpoena’d and forced to appear just over a week from polling day.
    Shave another 2% off National just for that.

    Slater, Hooten, Collins and the rest of the attack dogs have the blood veil over their eyes and nothing left to loose. They cannot see that damaging Key for revenge damages National’s best chance of re-election.

    Such a great ride.
    Mr Cunliffe, don’t let up for a second.
    • ianmac 32.1

      31 August 2014 at 8:09 pm

      It seems that Key will not be on the list to appear under oath. Bizarre!
      • Kiwiri 32.1.1

        31 August 2014 at 8:27 pm

        I am very sorry but this secret so-called inquiry being cobbled together, with officials who cannot provide assurance of independence from a government in trouble, and who intend to hold closed door hearings away from public gaze and out of public strutiny in less ten days from General Election, can neither instil confidence nor trust.
        • Peter 32.1.1.1

          31 August 2014 at 9:02 pm

          Don’t the Americans hold these sorts of investigations in public?
          • Colonial Viper 32.1.1.1.1

            31 August 2014 at 9:16 pm

            lol no mate, unless you are thinking the McCarthy witch hunts in the 1950s
          • disturbed 32.1.1.1.2

            31 August 2014 at 9:35 pm

            Yes in USA we watched several impeachment hearings in our time there over 20yrs and if this country have no independent public viewing of proceedings we will be shamed if we don’t get opposition to place their charges themselves to open this whole affair up in the public interest & security also!

            In us hearings they have the opposition political members publically interrogate the agencies on TV and Government also.

            We will suffer our loss of credibility around the globe and be regarded as another banana republic without a proper independent legal oversight Governmental watchdog, conducted with TV appearances.

            Even our mother country of which we use the Westminster legal model holds wide public hearings, and we don’t?
        • blue leopard 32.1.1.2

          31 August 2014 at 9:12 pm

          +1 Kiwiri
          • Kiwiri 32.1.1.2.1

            31 August 2014 at 9:45 pm

            We must not accept anything less than an inquiry being created independently and held openly and publicly, with deep and broad interrogation/cross-examination (including by any of our representatives in Parliament!) of the information, material and evidence.
            • blue leopard 32.1.1.2.1.1

              31 August 2014 at 9:58 pm

              I thoroughly agree – the issue this is all over, after all, is dishonesty and duplicitous behaviour by our current government. It is a bit farcical, therefore, if the ‘usual suspects’ hold the inquiry…and behind closed doors.
          • ExStatic 32.1.1.2.2

            31 August 2014 at 9:46 pm

            +2
    • weka 32.2

      31 August 2014 at 8:19 pm

      “Such a great ride.
      Mr Cunliffe, don’t let up for a second.”

      The problem here is NZF. Anyone done the figures on what an actual left wing would need to govern?
      • weka 32.2.1

        31 August 2014 at 8:29 pm

        Labour at 32%, GP at 15%, Mana getting 2 electorate seats, would mean the left could govern without NZF. But would Labour do that?

        (that’s leaving ACT and UF out of the calculation), and giving the Mp 2 seats and NZF 6%).
        • Colonial Viper 32.2.1.1

          31 August 2014 at 9:19 pm

          Almost every scenario makes Winston king-maker…LAB would be lucky to get 32% (~30% more likely) and GR would be lucky to get 15% (~13% more likely).

          30% + 13% = 43%. Another 6% is required…
          • weka 32.2.1.1.1

            31 August 2014 at 9:32 pm

            Yes, I was just figuring how much the left would need, not whether it was likely (National would have to drop to 41%).

            I used the calculator, which takes into account electorate seats and overhangs. Check my figures there (I could be wrong)

            http://www.elections.org.nz/voting-system/mmp-voting-system/mmp-seat-allocation-calculator?asPercentage=1&partyName_0=ACT+New+Zealand&partyVote_0=0&electorateSeats_0=0&partyName_1=Alliance&partyVote_1=0&electorateSeats_1=0&partyName_2=Aotearoa+Legalise+Cannabis+Party&partyVote_2=0&electorateSeats_2=0&partyName_3=Conservative+Party&partyVote_3=3&electorateSeats_3=0&partyName_4=Democrats+for+Social+Credit&partyVote_4=0&electorateSeats_4=0&partyName_5=Green+Party&partyVote_5=15&electorateSeats_5=0&partyName_6=Labour+Party&partyVote_6=32&electorateSeats_6=0&partyName_7=Libertarianz&partyVote_7=0&electorateSeats_7=0&partyName_8=Mana&partyVote_8=2&electorateSeats_8=2&partyName_9=M%C4%81ori+Party&partyVote_9=1&electorateSeats_9=2&partyName_10=National+Party&partyVote_10=41&electorateSeats_10=0&partyName_11=New+Zealand+First+Party&partyVote_11=6&electorateSeats_11=0&partyName_12=United+Future&partyVote_12=0&electorateSeats_12=0&partyName_opt_0=Other+Party&partyVote_opt_0=0&electorateSeats_opt_0=0&partyName_opt_1=Other+Party&partyVote_opt_1=0&electorateSeats_opt_1=0&partyName_opt_2=Other+Party&partyVote_opt_2=0&electorateSeats_opt_2=0&partyCount=13&optPartyCount=3&action=Calculate+parliamentary+seats
33. philj 33

    31 August 2014 at 9:42 pm

    xox
    ” National working for NZ? ” Surely a complaint should be lodged at the Advertising Standards Authority for false and misleading advertising!
    • Kiwiri 33.1

      31 August 2014 at 10:30 pm

      National only disclosing half it it. Here’s their actual full version:
      National working for NZ’s downfall.
    • dave 33.2

      1 September 2014 at 5:33 am

      John key should step aside bill english can act care taker pm until the election
      your right those offices need to be sealed before the paper shredders hit over drive.
      police in the interim but a royal commission into the actions of the john key government once a new government is in place.
    • dave 33.3

      1 September 2014 at 5:38 am

      those hordings do cause offence no wonder there getting trashed

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