Pull your head in, Curran

Written By: - Date published: 9:47 am, August 23rd, 2011 - 109 comments
Categories: labour - Tags:

90% of Labour’s MPs are hardworking, principled, and bloody good at what they do. Cunliffe, Fenton, Parker, Nash, Moroney, Ardern, King, O’Connor, Shearer, Twyford, Davis, Mahuta. The list goes on. It’s the quality of these people and what they believe in that makes me support Labour. A pity, then, that loudmouths like Clare Curran taint their public image.

Here’s Curran complaining about the Greens trying to win the same votes as Labour:

And on another note, re white-anting; the attempts by the Greens to encroach on Labour territory is also happening in Australia.

Wake up, Clare. The Greens aren’t stealing Labour’s ground. It’s the opposite. Labour’s tax policy looks pretty much like what the Greens have been calling for since it was founded. Labour’s transport policy is moving towards the Greens’. The fact is, the Greens have been right all along, and it’s a great thing that the political centre and the party of the centre-Left are moving towards it.

The Greens aren’t Labour’s opponents; they’re its vanguard.

The worst thing, though, is the arrogance of this first-termer:

Hard to believe she’s meant to be a PR expert.

Like I say, I don’t think a couple of bad apples spoil the Labour barrel any more than a couple of bad MPs make the Greens a bad party or a couple of good ones change the fact that National is a force for elitism and incompetence. But it would be welcome if the likes of Curran developed some humility. She has some great local issues, like Kiwirail, and some people in real need in her electorate. She should concentrate on getting those things right and drop the intemperate online comments.

109 comments on “Pull your head in, Curran ”

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  1. John Williams 1
    23 August 2011 at 9:58 am

    Eddie, take a deep breath and relax. No need for this.

    • mickysavage 1.1
      23 August 2011 at 1:29 pm

      Agreed John.
       
      Clare’s basic premise I believe was correct.  Rather than Labour/Green/Mana trying to devour each other’s support base the aim should be to grow the collective share.  And I am not sure why a single comment should attract such vitriole.
       
      Let’s face it.  If the polls are right and the left collectively does not grow its share we will have smile and wave back in power.  And this time he will do real damage.
       
      Clare is hard working and very down to earth.  She does not deserve the criticism.
       
       

      • mik e 1.1.1
        24 August 2011 at 5:08 pm

        The greens with their silly narrow water tax have done a lot of damage and need to realize they also are part of the left .Instead of scaring off voters and antagonizing Farmers the greens need to be a lot more careful how they tread.The only thing that stupid policy has done has filled nationals coffers and also motivated a lot of very busy farmers to get more involved in keeping the left on the opposition benches

    • Deadly_NZ 1.2
      24 August 2011 at 12:30 am

      But Labour do not need these silly distractions.

  2. prism 2
    23 August 2011 at 10:11 am

    Claire Curran sounds like a very passionate people supporter. What’s wrong with that? And I couldn’t see the word Greens in the link which is about the high Australian currency and the disadvantage to Oz, and particularly the grief of over a thousand workers losing their jobs as they shut down some steel manufacturing. And I/S comes across as anti in the headings of their interchange. There can be too great a restricting effect on people by parties” codes of behaviour and controls on thinking outside of the square. Perhaps this is what’s happening here.

  3. gingercrush 3
    23 August 2011 at 10:13 am

    The signs were there last year about Clare Curran. They were ignored. Anyway I can only think pure frustration is at the cause of her posts. And I don’t think she’ll be the last one either to express such frustration.

  4. the sprout 4
    23 August 2011 at 10:21 am

    i always did think curran being in pr is particularly funny.
    it’s like if key were in the speech training business, or tolley in the business of imparting wisdom.

    • mickysavage 4.1
      23 August 2011 at 8:25 pm

      Funny Clare expresses a heart felt idea totally contrary to PR spin and people are criticizing her?

      I though honesty and engaging in debate should be rewarded. 

      • Lee Hong 4.1.1
        23 August 2011 at 9:05 pm

        Greg loves Clare, we get the picture dude. Focus on the dilemma, ignore your emotions for a sec

      • QoT 4.1.2
        24 August 2011 at 7:46 am

        Micky, I’m sad to see you joining the queue of people pretending this is about something other than it is.

        Nobody is complaining that Curran said something “contrary to spin”: we’re complaining because she acted like Labour voters becoming Green voters is some huge injustice tantamount to “undermining” Labour, and when called on that attitude she threw a tanty and started using other people’s sob stories to get sympathy.

        I mean, that’s definitely *not* good PR practice, but that’s really not the point.

        • mickysavage 4.1.2.1
          24 August 2011 at 8:18 am

          QoT I am struggling a bit to understand the intensity of the criticism although I am the first to admit that I am utterly biased albeit I like to think in a well informed way.

          Clare says she has had a “gutsful of the white-anting of Labour from both the right and the left of politics”.  The Greens are not even mentioned. 

          And this is converted into an attack on the greens.  I am not even sure why.

          I know many of the local active greens and most of them are dedicated decent people who I like a lot.  There are a couple who see Labour as the opposition and this can make relationships difficult.
          And there is no sign of any flexibility between the Greens/Mana and Labour.  An example is Norman standing in the Mt Albert by election at a time when the polls suggested that the result could be very close.  Another is Waitakere where the Greens and Mana are standing quality candidates.  Their involvement may mean that Sepuloni will miss out and Paula Bennett will be re-elected.  Uurgh. 

          I suspect Clare regrets the tweets.  There are times when everyone should walk away from the keyboard.  Done that myself!

          My initial response was to Sprout’s criticizing Clare’s PR skills.  I thought that she was clearly expressing a personally held view and I always thought that honesty was preferable to spin.

          • QoT 4.1.2.1.1
            24 August 2011 at 8:08 pm

            “And on another note, re white-anting; the attempts by the Greens to encroach on Labour territory is also happening in Australia.”

            From the link posted below: http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/08/22/the-importance-of-being-labour-2/

            And before you start, please pay attention to that giveaway word, “ALSO”.

          • Pundit X 4.1.2.1.2
            24 August 2011 at 8:34 pm

            Mickey the only difference between you and Clare is the the degree in which your attempting to mislead on the inflexibity of the Greens and Mana. The Greens have only ever campaigned on the party vote in Waitakere and have attempted dialogue with Labour in the run up to the election. Mana will be campaigning for both the electorate vote and the party vote. Greens inflexible – I don’t think so.

      • mik e 4.1.3
        24 August 2011 at 5:10 pm

        No right turn has a few vendettas to settle from the old days.If anything he has moved further and further to the right almost in the hooton camp

  5. marsman 5
    23 August 2011 at 10:26 am

    Clare does seem to be a very hard working and passionate MP. She certainly has been able to expose Joyce for the sneaky little rat that he is re broadband.Perhaps you are a bit harsh on her Eddie, I could not see any reference to the Green Party either. (?)

  6. Squirrel 6
    23 August 2011 at 10:29 am

    Eddie should have included this link http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2011/08/22/the-importance-of-being-labour-2/

    The comments thread needs to be read to get the full picture.

  7. Daveo 7
    23 August 2011 at 10:34 am

    Have to agree with the post, the woman’s a liability. She also seems to be so excited about blogs and twitter that she’s lost all perspective. Same goes for Trev. I think the two of them need to take a month off the internet. It’d do them a world of good.

    • Deb 7.1
      23 August 2011 at 10:42 am

      What amazes me they have so much time to devote to blogging as much as they do, if as Ms Curran claims, she is busy out there door-knocking.

  8. (not the) jackal 8
    23 August 2011 at 10:42 am

    sprout: comment deleted, identity hijack

  9. Deb 9
    23 August 2011 at 10:44 am

    I see the mods have been busy over there in the last half an hour!

    • Anne 9.1
      23 August 2011 at 11:08 am

      I see the mods have been busy over there in the last half an hour!

      Nice bit of misrepresentation Deb. Just had a look. Not a single deletion. Referring to your own attempt to contribute? Well, you’ve said something that has triggered the automatic moderator havn’t you. Chances are someone will dig it out and post it up in due course. But I think you know this.

      • Deb 9.1.1
        23 August 2011 at 11:24 am

        Sigh……..

        Just because you say it, doesn’t make you right. I rarely read and even less frequently contribute @ RA myself, it’s all too puff-chested and look at moie-ish. You can be assured that on the odd occasion I have, I have never been moderated in any respect.

  10. Anne 10
    23 August 2011 at 10:47 am

    I,too, didn’t think Clare’s posts were helpful. Gingercrush is right. It’s born out of frustration. Don’t be harsh on her, she’s a 1st termer.

    It’s been my experience that the majority of Labour members and supporters want a close and inclusive relationship with the Greens. What’s more they have wanted it for a long time.

    Please take note Labour. Please take note the Green Party!

    • Colonial Viper 10.1
      23 August 2011 at 11:06 am

      Green Party members talking openly about considering “Blue-Green” policies (albeit sometimes negatively) is an additional frustration.

      The Left will remain disempowered if it does not have MSM channels of its own to hold rationale, reasoned discourse through.

      It takes an MP 12 months to door knock a thousand households; or (and) 30 minutes in a TV studio to reach a hundred times more people.

  11. M Hill 11
    23 August 2011 at 10:56 am

    On a side issue, I am kind of hoping Greens in my electorate (Waitakere) think very strategically about their electorate vote…. Carmel deserves a win here, and it would be great to see Paula’s smirk on her face shrink.

  12. jackal 12
    23 August 2011 at 11:01 am

    Dear Moderator. That comment above @ 10:42 is not me. Please remove it and do not allow any silimar stupid imposter comments through. I will change my log in email shortly.

    Perhaps Clare should have chosen her words more carefully. I think she’s been very courageous in saying what a lot of people are thinking… The Greens are becoming centre left instead of a left wing party. You need look no further than their 1080 policy and Kennedy Graham’s comments on Backbenches last week re National’s food stamp policy.

    I usually enjoy reading Idiot/Savant’s concise posts but I presume his nasty twitter comments are born out of a similar frustration as that expressed by Clare. Too many people are believing the right wing spin that National is guaranteed to win. The internal political conflict this causes is one of the reasons Steven Joyce “loaned” $43 million to Mediaworks, to portray a falsehood.

    Perhaps the twitter timeline is slightly wrong. Clare says it’s not about her, it’s about the people who are desperate. Idiot/Savant then throws that in her face, incorrectly saying that Clare is demanding he serve and obey her. It’s a small inconsistent outburst of stupidity. An invitation is not an order.

    The Greens aren’t Labour’s opponent’s, it’s about time some Green supporters realized that.

    • QoT 12.1
      24 August 2011 at 7:47 am

      Dude, really? I don’t think it’s the *Greens* who have to realise they aren’t Labour’s opponents. As in, it wasn’t Russel Norman on Frogblog talking about “white-anting”.

      • thejackal 12.1.1
        26 August 2011 at 11:11 pm

        That’s rather cryptic… I’m not sure I understand exactly what you mean QoT? I don’t think you’re one to lecture though, being all too ready to undermine the Labour Greens relationship yourself.

        • QoT 12.1.1.1
          26 August 2011 at 11:23 pm

          How is that cryptic? It isn’t the Greens who need to figure out that Labour and Greens aren’t enemies … it’s Labour.

          The idea that I have any power to “undermine the Labour Greens relationship” is a fucking laugh, mate. But please, keep trying to use that whole “shut up, YOU’RE the real person who’s trying to be divisive towards other members of the left!!!” argument, it’s really persuading me that Labour supporters aren’t entitled shits.

          • thejackal 12.1.1.1.1
            26 August 2011 at 11:40 pm

            I said “Green supporters” QoT. I’m talking about a few Green’s supporters who don’t think a relationship with Labour is worthwhile, and undermine that relationship. I’m not speaking for the party and I simply made an observation, I didn’t tell you to shut up.

            I very much doubt there’s any white-anting within the Green’s. I also don’t think Clare’s comments have undermined the Labour party in the least. A belief of perspective perhaps.

            If you don’t think you’ve any power to change things, why do you blog QoT? Some Labour supporters might be “entitled shits”, but this would be a slim minority. Tarred everything with the same brush lately?

            • QoT 12.1.1.1.1.1
              26 August 2011 at 11:42 pm

              Oh, fine. Then it’s time Labour supporters (and apparently MPs) realised the Greens aren’t the enemy. Have your semantic victory late on a Friday night.

              Another thing I’m over, btw? People who want to attack me demanding I justify my choice to blog to them. Not going to be fit into a nice neat box so you can tell me exactly how I’m doing it wrong and destroying the progressive movement, sorry.

              • thejackal …
                26 August 2011 at 11:59 pm

                I don’t think martyrdom is going to win you this debate QoT. Neither is dismissing your writing as having no impact and then ironically saying that you’re destroying the progressive movement, a contention I never made. You will note that you questioned my assertion above, thus instigating the debate. Questioning your comment is not an attack. As for fitting into a nice neat box, straw-man!

                • QoT …
                  27 August 2011 at 12:04 am

                  Questioning my comment isn’t an attack, sure. But demanding, as many have done before you, to know “why I blog unless it’s [to do what you want to categorise blogging as doing so you can say I’m doing it wrong]” is.

                  Forgive my hyperbole. It’s this common literary technique for illustrating that your assertion about my Evil Plot To Achieve World Domination By Pointing Out When Labour MPs Are Shitting On The Greens Yet Again (whoops, did it again) is stupid.

                  • thejackal …
                    27 August 2011 at 12:31 am

                    You’ve lost me again QoT. Having an opinion is not telling you that you’re “doing it wrong.” Personalizing things is not helpful to the debate. Blogging can change things for the better, that’s why I write. Your motivation is obviously different to mine. Pointing out a contradiction within your argument is not stupid! But your further hyperbolic contention is.

                    When Eddie writes that the Green’s have been right all along re tax policy, I totally agree. There’s nothing wrong with Labour moving to adopt Green’s policies. However they justify that in their own minds is also OK by me, and I believe that is where our beliefs differ. If for instance National adopts the Greens policy on child poverty, and say it was theirs all along, I’m not going to jump up and down about it, I’m going to say “about bloody time.” Basically, don’t let politics get in the way of doing what’s right.

                    I think there’s a political advantage sometimes in treating your natural enemies as your friends and vice versa. I don’t think that presently applies between the Greens and Labour. Personally I don’t believe continued opposition is beneficial, as there’s too much effort wasted. That’s one of the reason’s parliament is stagnant and not progressing New Zealand. The current political system is presently making things go backwards.

                    • MirrorMirror …
                      27 August 2011 at 12:40 am

                      Your not alone, I’m here.

                      I’m your friend; if you want a best friend, look no further.

                      I am just right here.

                      No strings- just helping my other half, as you do.

                      Do you want to know a secret- this is real- but you and I are the same soul.

                      It’s the truth.

    • mik e 12.2
      24 August 2011 at 5:13 pm

      What clare is saying if you really care about the cause come along and help the real people

  13. Gina 13
    23 August 2011 at 11:07 am

    Can the Moderator ( is iprent around ) please discipline “Jackal”

    Jackal

    I have noticed you left some very abusive comments on Travellerev’s blog “Aoteraroa a wider perspective”. Your icon and name are identical.

    http://aotearoaawiderperspective.wordpress.com/

    Perhaps they could be explained if there was a single piece of discussion mixed with the abuse but they are totally abusive.

    I’m really pleased Travellerev published them as it exposes what you are.

    Travellerev is a long term regular commenter here and has clearly being targeted by you for abuse.

    i.e. A singular “Eat my ass !” is the tamest of Jackal’s comments on her blog.

    The idea that people can comment here then follow our links and abuse us is creepy.

    • jackal 13.1
      23 August 2011 at 11:13 am

      I’m amused that somebody views me as such a threat as to try and besmirch my character by impersonation. I assume a right wing blogger is behind such childishness. Please try to keep on topic Gina.

      • travellerev 13.1.1
        24 August 2011 at 7:06 am

        Are you trying to tell me you did not leave those comments on my blog J?

        • thejackal 13.1.1.1
          26 August 2011 at 11:13 pm

          That’s right travellerev. I apologies for any offense, but it was an impersonator. I’ve never commented on your blog site. Please feel free to remove them.

    • Gina 13.2
      23 August 2011 at 11:14 am

      I like Claire Curran. She’s one reason I would vote labour. Let free speech rule please, our democracy is going down the tubes far to quickly. Im beginning to think we should scrap parties and just have MP’s. Stuff party loyalty. Lets have vigorous non personal debate.

      • the sprout 13.2.1
        23 August 2011 at 11:18 am

        it seems the earlier comment under jackal’s name was not in fact by jackal but an identity highjacker.

        • thejackal 13.2.1.1
          23 August 2011 at 11:26 am

          Hi Sprout. Thanks for your quick edit. I have created a new account, please ban the old one.
          [Done – r0b]
          [lprent: Not sure who that was from the IP. It was a dynamic ADSL from iHug in Auckland (I’m tempted to lodge a complaint with them). Whoever it was had the correct e-mail address. It is likely to have come directly or indirectly from someone running a blog site that you have commented on. ]

          • thejackal 13.2.1.1.1
            23 August 2011 at 1:14 pm

            Thanks for that. I would appreciate a copy of the info you have as I would like to lodge a complaint with iHug.

            • travellerev 13.2.1.1.1.1
              24 August 2011 at 7:10 am

              Wow, I just got on my blog. ROFL. Almost choked on my coffee. I’ll remove them and keep an eye out for this. I also had someone impersonating Mallard a couple of weeks ago.

          • travellerev 13.2.1.1.2
            24 August 2011 at 7:20 am

            Hi Jackal,
            I thought it was you at first because it started about two weeks ago on my blog and I just left the comments feeling somewhat puzzled. I have send them to the spam filter and hope this doesn’t cause any problems for you. I have collected three different IP addresses and will send them to Iprent via the Standard contact form. I would be happy to lodge a complaint too. 
            We must be doing something right for these idiots to become so blatant eh?

        • Gina 13.2.1.2
          23 August 2011 at 11:54 am

          OK Thanks Sprout. it is something a wing-nut would do.

    • lprent 13.3
      23 August 2011 at 12:34 pm

      It was a completely different IP to any that the jackal uses. The sprout fixed it.

      Someone knows the jackals e-mail.

    • travellerev 13.4
      24 August 2011 at 7:37 am

      Thanks for your words on my behalf Gina but it seems we have a nasty impostor on our hands. On my blog it now seems two more identities have been hijacked and used to spout abuse. One of them being Mallard no less.

  14. ianmac 14
    23 August 2011 at 11:20 am

    Our local MP just regurgitates manicured Central Office stuff. Everything published by the Right is manicured and sanitised.
    Clare writes her own stuff and somehow it sounds credible warts and all.
    Are we becoming so used to MP sanitation that we are shocked when faced with the real raw stuff?

  15. Afewknowthetruth 15
    23 August 2011 at 11:25 am

    ‘90% of Labour’s MPs are hardworking, principled, and bloody good at what they do.’

    Well that must rate as the best joke of the day!

    The people listed have been repeatedly provided with information vital to the planning of the future of NZ, and they have consistently ignored it and have supported policies that are totally dysfunctional: hence the mess we are in now.

    My personal experience in dealing with Labour MPs, that is Helen Clark, Michael Cullen, Paul Swain, Pete Hogson, David Parker, Trevor Mallard, Harry Duynhoven and Ross Robertson in particular, is that they don’t want to know about anything that challenges their positions of comfort, complacency and ignorance.

    In fact several have been downright decietful.

    • grumpy 15.1
      23 August 2011 at 11:55 am

      AFKTT, for Christ’s sake!!! They’re politicians aren’t they????

      Anyway Clare Curran is one of Labour’s better performers. Can’t the left see that there are only a certain percentage of left votes in the country and if Green cannibalise Labour’s votes, that is a few Labour MPs out of a job and in any future (but unlikely) coalition a lot less influence for any that are left.

      CV has made one good comment but seems quite docile on this one, pity because CV is one of Labour’s better commentators here…..

      • grumpy 15.1.1
        23 August 2011 at 12:25 pm

        I take it back!! She’s lost the plot!

        I just looked at Lanth’s Stuff link. Clare blames the CHINESE for taking 1000 jobs from Aussie steel workers.

        Bullshit, it’s the Aussies own fault for not equipping their steel mills with the “magic chimneys” that China has that have zero carbon emissions.

        Look for more businesses moving to China to take advantage of their technology. (I hear that NZ cows – when exported to China also have no more methane belches).

      • Idiot/Savant 15.1.2
        23 August 2011 at 12:28 pm

        Anyway Clare Curran is one of Labour’s better performers. Can’t the left see that there are only a certain percentage of left votes in the country and if Green cannibalise Labour’s votes, that is a few Labour MPs out of a job and in any future (but unlikely) coalition a lot less influence for any that are left

        And correspondingly more for the Greens. Whether this is a Bad Thing or not depends on which policy mix you prefer.

        But look, if Labour is concerned about its voters being “cannibalised” by the Greens, they can fight for those votes, and offer policies which will attract them. If they don’t, they’ve got no-one to blame but themselves.

        • grumpy 15.1.2.1
          23 August 2011 at 12:48 pm

          Or, they can move more to the right and pick up those “swing voters”. If, as suggested, Annette King gets rolled for Shane Jones, that will be an indication.

          I think there are more votes for Labour from the right than the left but both options are mutually exclusive.

          • McFlock 15.1.2.1.1
            23 August 2011 at 10:03 pm

            Okay, suppressing my knee-jerk left reaction to the suggestion, my perceptiion is that the trouble labour is in now is *because* they went right and tried to satisfy both camps, pleasing none.
              
            If half your votes are “floating” because you moderated your principles, then you lose a chunk X off the other end – votes you could previously rely on. In 2008 National ran a labour-lite campaign. Now they’re in trouble because they slipped the political continuum leftwards and the people they relied on as the bookend right (ACT) are in deep schtuck.
             
            Labour needs to provide substance, and the CGT is agood start. The more they do of that, the more National will look shallow.
             

            • Colonial Viper 15.1.2.1.1.1
              23 August 2011 at 10:34 pm

              The National-Lite approach is a disaster for Labour.

              Where is the real political economic positioning here.

              A slightly gentler, kinder version of free market economics? Yeah right.

              Massive changes need to be made to:
              – Our banking/finance/monetary system
              – The free market system (a free market for goods and services of safe standard is fine, a free market for capital and labour is not),
              – Increase the ability for families to be sustained on one income, and for people to sustain themselves on 3 day (24 working hour) weeks.
              – The valuation and facilitation of unpaid work and work not done for profit.
              – Sustainable energy policy.

              Not tinkering, I mean massive changes.

            • mik e 15.1.2.1.1.2
              24 August 2011 at 5:21 pm

              mcflock ACT are there to dog whistle to make key look moderate thats all they will be able to do with dinosaur don

              • McFlock …
                24 August 2011 at 10:22 pm

                Yes, but without them Key does not look moderate or “middle of the road” or “reasonable” or “a good guy”. He looks like the right wing, profiteering, gambling slickster that he is.
                  
                And, frankly, (because I’ve had a few), fuck that lying prick. His government kills people by inaction. Most of his ministers are incompetent and oblivious, but I think he really knows it. Fuck him.
                   
                   
                     
                     
                     

                           
                         
                     
                   
                   

    • johnm 15.2
      23 August 2011 at 12:07 pm

      Hi AFKTT
      Yes they get used to their privileged positions.They are incapable of thinking outside the current paradigm box:and they are elected not to do so:the heroic confrontation of new realities is not their concern they are stewards of the current order. Conformity and respectability are their concerns and pandering to the delusions of the NZ electorate. If they seriously addressed contraction and energy and environmental decline their constituencies would howl in outraged betrayal: “We did not elect you to tell us nasty truths,but to keep our comfortable lives on track!”

      • Afewknowthetruth 15.2.1
        23 August 2011 at 12:35 pm

        johnm

        Yes. Politicians are custodians of the status quo with absolutely no vision whatsoever. Having steered the Titianic into the iceberg, all they know is “Full steam ahead’. Ludicrous really.

        Of course, the great irony is that every day that passes politicians of all parties dig a deeper hole for the nation and dig deeper holes for themselves, so the ‘howl in outraged betrayal’ will be louder and more bloody when it comes, when the general populace finally does figure out the extent they have been lied to.

        Now that IS something to look forward to!

        Not long to wait now, I suspect. I see gold is $1908 and oil is down because economies are collapsing all over the place.

        • Lanthanide 15.2.1.1
          23 August 2011 at 12:54 pm

          “oil is down because economies are collapsing all over the place.”

          Oil is down because Gaddafi’s regime in Libya is crumbling and so the market is anticipating increases of oil flows in the coming months.

          • Bored 15.2.1.1.1
            23 August 2011 at 1:12 pm

            Oil has pre Peak tracked industrial supply / consumer demand. Collapsing consumer demand is reflected in the current oil price BUT supply versus demand is keeping the price up. What that means is that as supply decreases economies will shrink through inability to produce, unemployment will increase and consumer demand diminish.

            The question is whether demand will fall as fast as supply? That is highly unlikely so the price will fluctuate wildly, but be generally high.

            Gaddafis Lybia and their oil production are relatively minor on a world scale, increased oil flows from them will make very little impact on supply and price.

            • Lanthanide 15.2.1.1.1.1
              23 August 2011 at 1:19 pm

              Libya was previously supplying 1.6M barrels/day, about 2% of the world’s production.

              That being taken off the market is what has lead to the large price gap between Brent and TWI, because the exports went to Europe.

              • Bored …
                24 August 2011 at 7:34 am

                Which if there was high demand would be a huge problem. There isnt so its not. Seems the supply issues are currently being buffered by the financial crisis and consumption is severely depressed. Welcome to the yoyo effect…..gonna be a fun ride.

              • Colonial Viper …
                24 August 2011 at 10:40 pm

                That being taken off the market is what has lead to the large price gap between Brent and TWI, because the exports went to Europe.

                No, what has led to the price gap between Brent and TWI is all encompassing market manipulation and the fact that most of the volume of oil traded in the world goes through dark pool exchanges.

                If you check, you will see that WTI prices have been going up and up and up…even as WTI inventories have been going up and up and up. Pure market manipulation. BTW Goldman Sachs and JPM own (rent) huge oil storage facilities around the world.

                Oil is down because Gaddafi’s regime in Libya is crumbling and so the market is anticipating increases of oil flows in the coming months.

                No fraking way. You cannot tell me that today’s oil price is down because Libya MIGHT be able to resume its former production levels in 6 months time (given that fighting in Tripoli has not ceased yet).

                You might have a case for saying contracts for January and February are down because of an improved Libyan supply outlook, but anything more than that is fanciful IMO.

            • mik e 15.2.1.1.1.2
              24 August 2011 at 5:24 pm

              bored I listened to BBC world the other night and they say alqieda is going to make life very difficult in Libya so there might be a short term drop in oil prices but it won’t be very long

              • Colonial Viper …
                24 August 2011 at 10:44 pm

                Apart from the fact that there is no such thing as ‘Al Qieda’. It appears to me to be a label that the west dreamt up to group together a bunch of extremely disparate and unco-ordinated outfits for ease of media purposes.

    • Rodel 15.3
      23 August 2011 at 9:56 pm

      What rubbish, ..” my personal experience…etc.”fantasy make believe- Do you really think anyone takes this crap seriously? and for Christ’s sake learn to spell.

  16. Lanthanide 16
    23 August 2011 at 11:41 am

    Looks like this has been picked up by Stuff:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5491588/Clare-Curran-stirs-blog-controversy

    Lets see if they also pick up the story about National running boilerplate press releases for all their electorate MPs. Nah, that would be too balanced of them.

  17. Peter 17
    23 August 2011 at 12:22 pm

    Posts like this amount to shooting-yourself-in-the foot.

  18. Bored 18
    23 August 2011 at 12:52 pm

    I really wish Clare would cease being the electronic mouth piece of the Labour Party. The volume is too much, it needs to be more pointed and spread acros the team. She is a good lady but she is trying too hard, and that gets trying for us on the end of it.

    New leadership potential for Clare…she works hard enough but needs to spend more time actually getting results such as those Dalzell and Cosgrove have in Chch post quake.

    Future leadership, Adern? Image wise it would scare the hell out of ” John the photo op” having a better looking sharper tongued young opponent.

  19. Bill 19
    23 August 2011 at 1:01 pm

    I really don’t get the point of this post.

    Would people rather ‘gagging orders’ applied to every M.P. and that they could only utter an opinion after clearance from central office/committee?

    She ‘confessed’ to being angry and reckoning she should ‘probably be more measured’.

    And she wasn’t (measured).Yeah, well. So what?

    I’d far rather M.P.s were people with all the jagged edges and fuck-ups than polished insincere spin doctors.

    And if she was so fucking wrong in what she said, then again, so what? Her opinion can be challenged…by simply bowling on round to her office. Or sending her an email or a tweet.

    • Pete George 19.1
      23 August 2011 at 1:36 pm

      I agree Bill, better to have unvarnished opinions and real reactions, far better than the wooden pinnochios. It’s the novelty factor that get’s al the atention. Sure it can be damaging but it can also be like a breath of fresh air.

      Voters have a right to know what politicians are really like.

  20. Samuel Hill 20
    23 August 2011 at 1:36 pm

    Curran impresses me with her passion.

    Meanwhile, I think most of the people on the left have turned whatever kind of political movement they believed they had into a complete joke. While there are a few who speak up in the Labour and Greens and Mana who understand reality, a vast majority of Leftists are irrelevant in their arguments.

    To come out and be critical of an MP who is clearly frustrated with an ignorant and self-serving government, and an MP who is trying to do something for the people of her community and her country, is a bit rich. It is just wonderful how many people are keen to come and post their thoughts on a blog, but lack the balls to expose their true identity.

    Why don’t you grow a pair?

    Everyone who hides behind a psuedonym is chicken if you ask me – including every single person who posts on this blog under a make believe name.

    I wonder if anyone on the left is still capable of fighting a good fight?

    For example, take a look at my home electorate of Taupo, where the candidates from the Left are a complete joke. National’s Louise Upston is going to win very very easily. This is a seat which should be strongly contested. But no. Mark Burton is gone, and now there nobody there to fill the void.

    If there are any LABOUR men or women around with a more coherent message than Curran, please inform me. Because they sure have been silent in the last 6 years.

    But it is not me you have to try and convince is it? It is the average Joe and Jane on the street. The people who don’t read blogs, nor probably have the time to do so.

    When people from Labour are worried about whether a Green candidate or any other minor party is standing in certain electorates, that tells me there are serious problems within the party. And thats why people aren’t signing up to Labour. The socially liberal left who Labour have pandered to for the last 20 years are now deserting Labour, just as the hard working labourers did at the last election. How is Labour going to win these people back?

    With passionate people like Clare Curran, that’s how.

    Now if everyone could start showing their true colours instead of being such pedantic, pretentious know-it-alls, the Left might win an election in the next 10 years.

    • Bored 20.1
      23 August 2011 at 3:29 pm

      Curran impresses me with her passion. True, she has that in buckets, would that a few more were similar and less jaded. Thinking it through I am only critical of her voluminous output, the content is always considered.

      Maybe she should step aside from the electronic for a while and practice another communication media. It would stand her in good stead for the day she gets a ministerial post.

  21. The Voice of Reason 21
    23 August 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Pisspoor post. Crosby Textor will be laughing their arses off at this petulant crap, which only weakens the left overall. If IS doesn’t want to support Labour that’s fine, but an ego driven post on the Standard bagging a hard working MP who at least is trying to use social media in a positive way is just dumb. I think an apology would not be out of place, Eddie.

    Keep on rocking, Clare, the folk who knock on the doors, deliver the pamphlets and put up the hoardings are with you. The railway workers are with you. The voters of Dunedin are with you.

    And by the way, the Greens are not Labour’s vanguard. They have only ever been in the guard’s van on Labour’s train, which means they’re along for the ride, but nothing more. Until the Greens mature enough to both want to be in Government and be wanted in Government, they will just be there to make up the numbers.

      • The Voice of Reason 21.1.1
        23 August 2011 at 7:47 pm

        Nah, as I said above, the Greens have to make up their minds as to what side they are on and how best to achieve their goals. I reckon that is with Labour, in Government. As part of a left(ish) block. That can’t be achieved by bagging each other in the media. So, in the 100 days we have left to save NZ from a total economic and environmental disaster, we’ve got to unite. Today’s tanty made the msm because they will take any crumbs to feed the Goff Must Go meme so that they can keep us out.
         
        Or are are you OK with sucking up to Key for a token bit of greenwash in the Key/Brash Government, when you could be making a real difference with Labour?

        • Anne 21.1.1.1
          23 August 2011 at 8:13 pm

          the Greens have to make up their minds as to what side they are on and how best to achieve their goals. I reckon that is with Labour, in Government. As part of a left(ish) block. That can’t be achieved by bagging each other in the media

          On the button as usual TVoR. I tried to say something similar earlier today but never so eloquently as yourself.

          Take note Greens!
          Take note Labour!

          That is if you really do put NZ ahead of yourselves, and I believe you both do…

          It may not have been intentional, but at least we should give credit to Clare Curran for opening up this important discussion.

  22. grumpy 22
    23 August 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Does anyone know if Jenny Michie is still Labour’s Communications Manager?

    If she is, perhaps someone could contact her about this sudden display of counterproductive infighting.

    As others have said “Labour eating it’s own”.

    [lprent: Nope. This may give you a hint. But do try to keep up. ]

    • mickysavage 22.1
      23 August 2011 at 2:15 pm

      The left always have these sorts of discussions Grumpy and often in public.
       
      We are made up broadly of two factions:
       
      1.  The purist who believe that campaigning with the perfect model of social/environmental/community cooperation will attract a plurality of support.  The trouble is that no two of these purists agree.
       
      2.  The activist organiser who is prepared to put up with a lot of crap so that progressives can be elected.
       
      Some of the most vehement of complaints of CLare have come from the purists.  Her asking them to come doorknocking is an indication that she is clearly in the activist organiser camp.
       
      IMHO the right has the same sorts of divisions:
       
      1.  Nutbar conservatives/rascists/christians
       
      2.  The wealthy.
       
      Shame is they realise that having these debates in public is damaging for their respective causes.
       
       

      • Blue 22.1.1
        23 August 2011 at 2:49 pm

        Also other divisions in the National Party Micky, hard working families that pay their bills, have small businesses, employ new Zealanders, look after their children the way they are meant to be looked after and folk that hate extremes of any kind and duplicitous “forgetful” people like Goff.

        You forgot a couple of Labours divisions – Union Hacks, fringe dwellers and failures in life (looking for someone to blame for their misfortune). Psssst ‘the answer is in the mirror’.

        • mickysavage 22.1.1.1
          23 August 2011 at 3:07 pm

          Ha Blue

          I am a fringe dweller in that I live on the fringe of Auckland.  I am not a union hack, I have qualifications, am self employed and have a small business that employs people. 

           So which division do I belong to?

        • Colonial Viper 22.1.1.2
          23 August 2011 at 8:52 pm

          Also other divisions in the National Party Micky, hard working families that pay their bills 1), have small businesses, employ new Zealanders (1), look after their children the way they are meant to be looked after and folk that hate extremes of any kind and duplicitous “forgetful” people like Goff.(2)

          1) What about tax bills mate? Have all dairy farmers started paying income tax suddenly?

          2) Then it must be a National guy who told my friend and his workmates today that “they are getting restructured” they weren’t needed, and that minimum wage temps will be doing their jobs from now on, and then only whenever the company has enough work on. Is that the kind of employment you mean?

          3) Are you telling me that these National supporters also hate John Key because Key can’t remember what he was doing when the Boks visited in 1981? Or what Key knew about buying new BMWs for the Rugby World Cup, and when?

          Or maybe they hate English because he can’t remember which house he actually lives in?

          lolz mate

        • mik e 22.1.1.3
          24 August 2011 at 5:32 pm

          blue obviously belongs to the brown nose division of National. Which guaratees you an income no matter how dumb you are so long as you keep the rhetoric up youll have a lob in National while the businessmen that fill their pockets can get on with business leave the politics to hacks like Blue to spin BS

    • The Voice of Reason 22.2
      23 August 2011 at 2:26 pm

      Jenny Michie is now off doing excellent comms work for a union, Grumpy. Lucky for them, obviously, but not so lucky for Labour.

  23. randal 23
    23 August 2011 at 2:30 pm

    the opponents of democracy always complain about how messy it is.
    But that is the nature of trhe beast. At least this example shows that Labour MP’s have have some fight in them and are not miserable little crosby textor clones.

  24. toad 24
    23 August 2011 at 2:52 pm

    Eddie, how come the homophobic & anti-union Damien “Gaggle of Gays” O’Connor is on your list of “hardworking, principled, and bloody good” Labour MPs?

    • grumpy 24.1
      23 August 2011 at 3:25 pm

      Because he is a bloody good bloke and Labour can see more votes in moving right than left…..

      • millsy 24.1.1
        23 August 2011 at 9:19 pm

        Grumpy, if Labour moves right and becomes just like National, like you are saying it should, then it should fold up and merge into National.

        I think that Labour needs to dust off the writings of Nash, Fraser, Savage, and even John A Lee.

    • Lanthanide 24.2
      23 August 2011 at 3:55 pm

      He got it wrong anyway, it should be “parade of gays” or “drag of gays”.

      I guess those aren’t alliterative though.

    • mik e 24.3
      24 August 2011 at 5:42 pm

      Toad all the gays in National are still in the Closet. National do everything behind closet doors .Thats why you can only be a slag ger because you are told what to do in National and what to say there is no open discussion for you guys . Thats why you come to the standard where you can have a decent argument without all the slagging like you get with farrer and Blubber sorry bludger. I’m happy to oblige .

  25. neoleftie 25
    23 August 2011 at 7:52 pm

    well as a semi active activist in clare’s electorate i have to say this post is a bit trite.
    Clare is hardworking, IT savy and a genuine person for the masses, perhaps not as savy a politian or as polished as our career poli elites.
    I would rather have an honest caring MP, who displays passion, than a polished stuffed white collar tory or even a career, right leaning labour MP.
    I for one have been impressed at her transition from simple beginnings at LEC meeting to speeches in the House. Hardworking – tune in to Poli TV and you will see a few familar faces who stand out as regulars; Clare, Grant Robertson and old hand Trev.
    So shame on you Eddie

    • SHG 25.1
      24 August 2011 at 1:18 am

      “Hardworking”? Yeah, ok. “passionate”? Ok. But “IT savvy”? Puh-lease. When it comes to technology Curran is a waste of space. If she could stop her “tee hee I’m a girl on the Internet!!!1” schtick for a moment she might be able to learn something about telecommunications, seeing as how she’s the oppn spokesperson for it. But so far, nope.

      • Anton Angelo 25.1.1
        24 August 2011 at 3:42 pm

        Having spent time talking to Clare about IT at various events, I can say that she has a good grasp of the issues, and from personal experience I contest your claim that she is somehow ignorant, and relying on her gender to somehow fake her way.  Maybe she doesn’t know the intricate details of SS7[1], but I’d rather, personally, she dealt with policy than intricate technical issues.  
         
        [1] Maybe she does know SS7. 
        [2] Edited for spelling.

  26. Jum 26
    23 August 2011 at 10:10 pm

    Clare is a passionate speaker in the House and is obviously a problem for Joyce because he does what Key does (who taught whom?) which is to suggest the questioner is lying and tries to belittle her when the question has been a good one and the Speaker will not/cannot question the veracity of Joyce and Key’s slippery replies. They also try it on Jacinda Ardern; they just come off looking so childish; I wonder how little real substance the three stooges Key, English and Joyce have to offer New Zealand when they resort to those silly behaviours. It’s not a good look for our Parliament.

    Keep Curran. Get rid of Joyce, English and Key (out of Parliament I hasten to add!) and out of the country, back to their American masters, and Parliament will be a much more credible, honest and effective place.

    There is so much to lose this year if these NActMU cretins get back in, more than even I thought – our assets, our financial credibility as a country and our level of humanity in dealing with our neediest.

    We know the rightwing agenda already, no matter what new policy they magic up.

    Whatever they promise such as only part ownership of our assets will be a lie as it was in 2005 and 2008 and will be again in 2011.

  27. alex 27
    24 August 2011 at 12:00 am

    The Greens don’t owe Labour a thing. Labour deserves to lose their position as the major opposition, and the Greens should be the ones to take over. They take strong, principled stands and debate the issues. Labour tries to play the same game as National, and loses. Yes I would rather have Goff than Key forming the next government, but if National does win, I want the Greens to win in 2014.

  28. Anton Angelo 28
    24 August 2011 at 3:33 pm

    All those that have commented about Clair being passionate and angry: well, from the small experience I have of her, you’ve got it right. And she is quite justified to be so. In fact, I think showing a bit more honest emotion would do us all good. The blogs seem to be full of snide backbiting over trivia, and the standard media can only work with the over produced smarm they get delivered.

    Getting angry doesn’t mean being rude, or disrespectful, it’s the precursor to getting organised. It means passionately standing up for the clear differences between right and left, between greed and kindness, about what it means to live in a democracy.

    We talk about passion so much these days with relation to piddling nothings, and lie about it constantly (yes boss, I’m passionate about my job wiping down dunnies, it fills my soul with completeness) we’ve forgotten what it actually looks like. And Clair seems to actually have it.

    Get pissed Clair. I am. We are. Sometimes it will go over the top. That’s OK – its better then smiling and waving and pretending its all alright, when it so evidently not.

  29. chris73 29
    24 August 2011 at 5:20 pm

    I’m loving Clares postings, so much humour 🙂

    Slagging off the Greens, yeah thats helpful. Maybe Labour could have been a bit more supportive towards the Greens by offering them some baubles of power

  30. Pete George 30
    25 August 2011 at 7:13 am

    It’s good to see Clare back on red Alert with an admission and apology – it’s unusual and refreshing to see a politician doing that.

    It’s debatable how necessary an apology was for free and open expression but I guess it’s a politically pragmatic thing to do.