Govt: All workers to get same holidays as PM

85 comments on “Govt: All workers to get same holidays as PM ”

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1. Pip 1

   12 January 2010 at 8:32 am

   Bill Kristol … playing Risk = Win
2. Gosman 2

   12 January 2010 at 8:35 am

   When he’s working you think he’s lightweight and doesn’t do anything and then when he’s on holiday you want him back at work.

   I can’t understand your leftist logic sometime.

   BTW I think this sort of post is along the lines of those attacking Barrack Obama that are detailed here http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/trifecta.asp or those that were made against Helen Clark about her personal life. If you wish to engage in this level of discussion then go ahead but it can get really messy in the gutter.
   • Marty G 2.1

     12 January 2010 at 8:43 am

     Gosman, I don’t read any US blogs, I’m not copying them.

     And this has nothing to do with Key’s personal life. I’m not accusing him of being gay, I’m not attacking his appearance or ethnicity or his family life.

     I’m criticising his dedication to his work.

     And that is in no way contradictory to criticising the work he does sometimes do. Why should I have to settle for saying ‘pheww, at least he’s not at work buggering things up’.

     Is it too much to ask to want a prime minister that both shows up for work and does a good job while he’s there?

     Cheers Pip, new Eddie.
     • Gosman 2.1.1

       12 January 2010 at 8:52 am

       The only people who seem to have any real problem with John Key being away is a small clique of leftists such as yourself. Now considering it is unlikely John Key would be able to do anything that would satisfy your own particular political philosophy I don’t see the point of you bemoaning his absence from the job.

       Perhaps you are expecting the MSM or general population to take up the points you are making. However at the moment you just come across as petty and vindicative. It is exactly the same ugliness that frames the attacks on Obama in that link I provided or was behind the silly personal attacks on Clark during the last Government.

       These don’t tend to work except amongst the ugly section of society. If you wish to appeal to these people then go ahead. Perhaps you can make some comments against Maori rights as well vis-a-vis Phil Goff.
       • Marty G 2.1.1.1

         12 January 2010 at 9:04 am

         We made comments on Goff’s speech at the time.

         Tell us what to write on our blog again and you won’t be welcome anymore, see our policy page. It’s about behaving in fair manner to the people who give up the time to provide you with a forum.
         • Gosman 2.1.1.1.1

           12 January 2010 at 9:13 am

           Ummmmm….. there is a BIG difference between telling you what to write and suggesting something.

           All I stated is that if you wish to appeal to the ugly section of society then doing something along the lines of Phil Goff’s comments would be a start.

           If you don’t undersatand the point I am making then it is more fool you.
           • Daveo 2.1.1.1.1.1

             12 January 2010 at 11:13 am

             Where have you been Gosman?

             http://www.thestandard.org.nz/goffs-speech/
           • roger nome 2.1.1.1.1.2

             12 January 2010 at 11:52 am

             gosman = abject fail. stumbling around an issue and making yourself look like an idiot at the same time. can’t you find a better use for your time?
3. Jewish Kiwi 3

   12 January 2010 at 8:44 am

   Gosman – you don’t appear to understand logic itself.

   The point is that John Key does nothing whatsoever. And now he is doing so flagrantly. He should be back in New Zealand, being less of a lightweight.

   Do you understand?
   • Gosman 3.1

     12 January 2010 at 8:46 am

     So you think he should be doing nothing at all in NZ instead of in Hawaii?

     Why exactly?
     • Jewish Kiwi 3.1.1

       12 January 2010 at 8:47 am

       Gosman – who says he should be doing nothing in NZ?

       Rodney Hide, perhaps.
     • Marty G 3.1.2

       12 January 2010 at 8:47 am

       No. Gosman. Try reading. Jewish Kiwi, like me, thinks he should be back in NZ and working.
       • Gosman 3.1.2.1

         12 January 2010 at 8:57 am

         But when he’s back in N.Z most of you guy’s think he doesn’t do anything anyway. This ‘Too many holiday’s’ attack line seem to be just an excuse to make a personal attack on him.
         • Jewish Kiwi 3.1.2.1.1

           12 January 2010 at 9:01 am

           Because we *think* he doesn’t do anything doesn’t mean we *want* this to be the case.

           You are very slow in the head, and if you don’t get it by now, go read Hairy McClairy or something.
         • Marty G 3.1.2.1.2

           12 January 2010 at 9:05 am

           again: “Is it too much to ask to want a prime minister that both shows up for work and does a good job while he’s there?”
         • Rob Carr 3.1.2.1.3

           12 January 2010 at 10:12 am

           This too many holidays proves he is lazy in general. Prime Ministers are not known for taking that much holiday time in their first year in government.
           • Gosman 3.1.2.1.3.1

             12 January 2010 at 10:32 am

             But this isn’t within the first year in Government. You guys are stretching the period to 14 months (which includes two major holiday periods) and then trying to state it falls within a year. Essentially you are guilty of dodgy statistical gathering.
4. illuminatedtiger 4

   12 January 2010 at 8:56 am

   I was back at work on the 4th. Now this asshole who we call the PM is just taking the piss!
5. TightyRighty 5

   12 January 2010 at 9:07 am

   So in the first year of his new job, John Key took his 4 weeks holiday, in the second year of his new job, he has taken his four weeks annual leave? whats the problem? i think it’s great he takes holidays with his families. Families are important, and i’m sure they don’t get to see to much of Mr Key during the year.
   • Jewish Kiwi 5.1

     12 January 2010 at 9:09 am

     Except when he is hiding out at the Huka Lodge during important by-elections
   • logie97 5.2

     12 January 2010 at 11:42 am

     Now let’s see – Election November 2008 – 2 months in the job and already on top of it so I take 4 weeks leave. 12 months later after just 14 months in the job I take another 4 weeks. How many jobs are there where you get a full leave entitlement after only 2 months?

     It could be argued that the “first hundred days” where everything got passed under urgency was his idea of a full year’s work…
     • Gosman 5.2.1

       12 January 2010 at 11:49 am

       Seriously but are you a little slow or something logie97?

       When did John Key become an MP again – was it October 2008 or a few years previously?

       When you get a promotion at work does you Holiday entitlement start again from the moment you start your new role?

       If you are representative of the the intellectual capital of the left I don’t think the National led Government has much to worry about for a good few years to come.
       • logie97 5.2.1.1

         12 January 2010 at 11:56 am

         Promotion? – He changed jobs.
         • Gosman 5.2.1.1.1

           12 January 2010 at 2:09 pm

           He changed roles not jobs. He is still first and foremost an Member of Parliament. Within this specific job he can take on a number of roles. One of these includes being the Prime Minister. However I think you will find his holiday entitlements are accrued according to the length of time he has been an MP not when he bacame PM.
           • logie97 5.2.1.1.1.1

             12 January 2010 at 4:14 pm

             You can spin it how you like. He was 2 months into a new job, no longer just an MP or leader of a political party (answerable only to that party), but in a totally different job as leader of a country – a Prime Minister and answerable to a nation.

             (and as for trying to gain the intellectual high ground, you should check your typing before you submit – Professor “Tolley” Umbridge would not be very proud of one of hers making so many fundamental grammatical errors…)
             • Gosman …

               12 January 2010 at 5:03 pm

               So just to clarify your position, MP’s who were formally employed as Ministers under the last Labour Government are not entitled to any leave that they had accrued at the moment they ceased being Ministers of the crown and have to start afresh – is that correct?

               As for my gramatical errors, this is a blog comments section not an English test. What is more important is ideas and argument logic and you fail seriously on that front.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               12 January 2010 at 5:22 pm

               See my comment below, but on this separate issue, parliaments are dissolved between elections aren’t they. If so then they are re-applying for their jobs.
     • Crash Cart 5.2.2

       12 January 2010 at 2:22 pm

       In the defense force you have the full balance of you leave year available to you at the start of the year. The moment it rolls over you could go out and use your 20 days. They work under the premise that you are going to earn it any way, you will have restricted opportunities to take it, why not let you use it. It also means you don’t have to scramble to use it up when a leave year is going to roll over due to the fact you can only carry over a certain number of days per year. If you leave before you have earned the leave days that you have used you are required to pay them back.

       Just because things don’t work like this where you are doesn’t mean no on e else gets it that way.
6. TightyRighty 6

   12 January 2010 at 9:11 am

   snide, snippy remarks. the hallmark of the politics of envy
   • Jewish Kiwi 6.1

     12 January 2010 at 9:13 am

     Actually, you are bang on the money TightyRighty.

     I’m bloody envious my snout isn’t in the gravy train as well.
     • TightyRighty 6.1.1

       12 January 2010 at 9:16 am

       By not taking your full entitlement of annual leave granted by the last government that John Key is quite rightly making use of? then you are either an idiot, or a martyr.
       • Jewish Kiwi 6.1.1.1

         12 January 2010 at 9:18 am

         TightyRighty

         Does the Prime Minister have leave allocated like a normal worker, or does he just swan off whenever he’s feeling a bit pale around the edges?

         I don’t think politicians have job descriptions nor contracts with leave factored into them.
         • TightyRighty 6.1.1.1.1

           12 January 2010 at 9:21 am

           really? so as an employee of the state he’s not covered by any contract? hmmmm, i find that a bit hard to believe. does anyone know how much time our last prime minister, defeated at the polls, the second female prime minister of new zealand, Helen Clark took in office?
           • Jewish Kiwi 6.1.1.1.1.1

             12 January 2010 at 9:24 am

             TightyRighty,

             They don’t contact public services HR and schedule some time off to see their families. They might consult their party whip.
             • TightyRighty …

               12 January 2010 at 9:31 am

               Oh really? gee thanks for clearing that up. your obviously such an HR expert that you could probably explain to me why all full time employees, no matter their role, are covered under the Holidays Act. if he gets paid for a job, i’m pretty sure you could consider him employed.
         • Gosman 6.1.1.1.2

           12 January 2010 at 9:21 am

           What an ill informed comment. Of course the Politicians have conditions of employment. They are ultimately paid by the same state bureacracy that pays Heads of Departments and other Civil Servants. the only difference being is that the emplyment and dismissal rules are different.
           • Jewish Kiwi 6.1.1.1.2.1

             12 January 2010 at 9:44 am

             What are the dismissal rules for the PM, do you think?
             • Gosman …

               12 January 2010 at 10:35 am

               Ummmm…..

               Either he gets rolled by his caucus, rejected by the electorate during a General election, or he can have his Ministerial warrant removed by the GG.

               I thought this was pretty obvious.
           • Pascal's bookie 6.1.1.1.2.2

             12 January 2010 at 5:18 pm

             What an ill informed comment. Of course the Politicians have conditions of employment. They are ultimately paid by the same state bureacracy that pays Heads of Departments and other Civil Servants. the only difference being is that the emplyment and dismissal rules are different.

             I’m pretty sure Jewish Kiwi is spot on here actually. They are members of parliament. They are not employees of the state, and I doubt very much that they have any contract of the sort an employee would have.

             As you say, their ‘conditions of employment’ are about being duly elected. Beyond that the are pretty much safe as long as they don’t get convicted of a crime. The privileges committee has some control over their behaviour, bringing the house into disrepute, that sort of thing.

             Who do you think is on the other side of the contract you imagine exists? Any civil servant is employed, ultimately, by an mp so that won’t work.

             However I think you will find his holiday entitlements are accrued according to the length of time he has been an MP not when he bacame PM.

             Where would I find this? I think you’ll find they can take as much holiday as they want, and do as little work as they want. Accrual doesn’t come into it. The only thing that will matter is public perception of their performance.
   • roger nome 6.2

     12 January 2010 at 11:55 am

     the only thing i envy about you is your ability to be blissfully unaware of the world around you. key treats his most important position with contempt, just as Bush did. we deserve better.
7. jcuknz 7

   12 January 2010 at 9:28 am

   It is a fun piece Marty but to be fair … how many ‘workers’ remain ‘on call’ during their holidays the way John Key has to? I would guess that if you deducted the amount of time JK spends on government business during his holidays his total free time would be no more than what the rest of us, myself excluded as a returee, have off / used to have off. ‘Workers’ have real time off, I doubt that JK does. No doubt some idiot will say he doesn’t work now.
   • Jewish Kiwi 7.1

     12 January 2010 at 9:35 am

     @jcuknz

     “How many ‘workers’ remain ‘on call’ during their holidays the way John Key has to?”

     Firefighters and Emergency Workers
     IT Professionals
     Printers
     Hotel Administrators
     Hospital Interns
     PAs

     ..to name a few
     • Crash Cart 7.1.1

       12 January 2010 at 9:53 am

       All of those you have listed above are required to be compensated in some way for remaining on call and should they be called in during that leave the day is to be refunded to them. I am in the defense force and before that was an IT professional. Both fall into this category.
       • TightyRighty 7.1.1.1

         12 January 2010 at 10:11 am

         Do they? Seeing how Mr Key donates his salary to charity, how would he be compensated seeing as he has limited time for holidays?
       • Bright Red 7.1.1.2

         12 January 2010 at 10:20 am

         I think the $350K salary probably counts as compo, don’t you think?

         The guy knew the job he was running for.

         Did you really think you would be getting a PM who takes 7 weeks a year off on overseas holidays?

         Is that really OK with you?
         • Gosman 7.1.1.2.1

           12 January 2010 at 10:28 am

           I prefer to rate people’s work on overall performance and outcomes rather than on how much time they spend ‘officially’ at work. Now if you have evidence that John Key is failing in this regard by all means attack him on them rather than this rather pathetic smeer attack on his Holiday’s.
         • TightyRighty 7.1.1.2.2

           12 January 2010 at 10:30 am

           see above. what 350K salary? he doesn’t take 7 weeks of a yeart. he took four in the first year, and has taken three so far this year of employment. all within the holidays act. doofus.

           anti-spam: drawing, as in marty and eddie are drawing a long bow on this one
           • Pascal's bookie 7.1.1.2.2.1

             12 January 2010 at 10:34 am

             Where’s this ‘Key donates his salary to charity’ meme spring from? Got a cite?

             It’s meaningless anyway for this debate. What he does with the salary he gets paid in no way detracts from the fact that he is paid it.
             • Gosman …

               12 January 2010 at 10:37 am

               So why are you guy’s using a 14 month term and trying to imply the time off he’s had is related to a year in office?
             • TightyRighty …

               12 January 2010 at 10:40 am

               Really? in no way detracts from the debate? i would have thought that if someone donates 100% of their salary from their job, you would at least not begrudge them their holiday entitlements. especially in such a demanding job that requires many hours away from the family. nobody minded when Helen Clark went hiking in dangerous mountain country, so why mind that John Key is off on holiday with his family?
             • Pascal's bookie …

               12 January 2010 at 10:45 am

               What he does with salary he is paid is his business. We pay him to do a job.

               Now any evidence at all that he pays 100 perecnt of his salary to charity?
             • Crash Cart …

               12 January 2010 at 10:45 am

               Actually tighty he gets to trade on the good will he earns from donating his salary. In the long run someone as rich as he is will gain more political leverage and increase his chances of re-election by a far grater amount by donating his salary rather than collecting it.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               12 January 2010 at 10:50 am

               Does anyone have a cite for this donation story?
             • TightyRighty …

               12 January 2010 at 11:02 am

               PB: sorry he donates a good part. what a good part is i am unsure, but am guessing it is more than 50%

               http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/573560

               Crash, i understand the good will he earns by doing this. However, i am at a loss to understand why taking holidays allowed for within the holiday act to spend time with his family is a bad thing?
             • Crash Cart …

               12 January 2010 at 11:06 am

               See my statement below Tighty. I am not passing judgment on him taking leave. I agree taht no one should be ridiculed for taking their allotment, and he probably is in constant contact with his party while on leave. I merely back the stance that his donating of his salary in no way effects the amount of leave he should be able to take. He sees a benefit from that salary be it good will or feeding his kids.
             • Pascal's bookie …

               12 January 2010 at 11:17 am

               Thanks TR

               National Party leader John Key has vowed to donate “a good part” of his government pay to charity should he be New Zealand’s next Prime Minister.

               Like my tax cut north of fifty bucks then eh 😉

               Seriously though, good on him if he is, but it’s pretty vague to hang any sort of argument on it.
             • DeeDub …

               12 January 2010 at 11:47 am

               If he does not take his salary as leader of the country he is in extremely dodgy company. 😉

               A certain Adolf Schickelgruber was widely praised a few years back for not drawing his salary. He was a multi-millionaire too.
             • felix …

               12 January 2010 at 11:54 am

               TR: Why do you assume it would be above 50% though?

               Wouldn’t 20% be a good part?

               How many people do you know who donate 10% of their salary?

               If you donated 10% of your salary would you consider that “a good part”? What about 5%?

               It’s all academic anyway, as PB points out. No-one has provided a shred of evidence that he donates anything at all.
         • Crash Cart 7.1.1.2.3

           12 January 2010 at 10:31 am

           I was not passing judgment on JK. I just pointed out that Jewish kiwi was not giving all facts in regards to those who have to be on call.

           I am a right winger who is not happy at all with the current government.
8. prism 8

   12 January 2010 at 9:52 am

   Great imaginative piece Marty G. Sounds as convincing as the usual stuff from government.
9. Bradbury 9

   12 January 2010 at 9:54 am

   For fucks sake, he’s a do nothing anyway, holiday or not.

   Funnily enough most workers can take holidays over and above their entitlement, provided they budget for the loss of income. Isn’t John Key’s salary being given to charity anyway?
10. Razorlight 10

    12 January 2010 at 9:56 am

    Can you please give me the dates of the seven weeks he has taken as ‘holiday’. I can then get this clarified by his office.

    We can all then all see whether he is lazy or whether you are full of shit
    • snoozer 10.1

      12 January 2010 at 4:35 pm

      razor, don’t be lazy and angry like some reptile, check the post from yesterday, it lists 5 and a half weeks of holidays – Hawaii, New York/Florida, Trinidad – then add the 3 he has taken just now. That’s 2 months in 14, or about 7 weeks in 12 months.
      • felix 10.1.1

        12 January 2010 at 5:01 pm

        He knows.

        He was pasting the exact same comment on that thread too.
11. vidiot 11

    12 January 2010 at 10:33 am

    If I work 2 jobs and each job gives me 4 weeks annual leave – does that mean I get 8 weeks leave a year ?
    • Crash Cart 11.1

      12 January 2010 at 10:40 am

      Yes you do. You may choose to take them all at the same time so it appears that you have only taken 4 weeks off but you have received the equivalent of 8 weeks of leave pay. When it comes down to it that is how the leave you take is measured. You can take as much time off as you want but your employer only has to pay you for 4 weeks.
      • snoozer 11.1.1

        12 January 2010 at 4:37 pm

        but if you don’t take the leave at the same time, you’ll have to show up for your normal hours at your second job even if you’re on leave from your first one.
        • Crash Cart 11.1.1.1

          13 January 2010 at 8:10 am

          That’s irrelevant. You get paid for 8 weeks leave from two different employers. I could choose to take up part time work during my 4 weeks leave. It doesn’t mean I am not getting it. My employer is still having to pay for me to not be there.
          • Pascal's bookie 11.1.1.1.1

            13 January 2010 at 9:12 am

            Don’t you get four weeks leave from each? I get what you are saying, but the ‘8 weeks’ angle doesn’t really describe what’s going on, (unless you’d say that they get two weeks pay for two weeks work every week when they are not on holiday).
            • Crash Cart 11.1.1.1.1.1

              13 January 2010 at 9:17 am

              As far as I see it getting 4 weeks from two sources is 8 weeks. An employer isn’t usually interested or responsible for what people do in their own time. The fact that they get the 8 weeks worth of holiday pay from two different employers doesn’t change the fact that it is 8 weeks holiday pay.
12. Ministry of Justice 12

    12 January 2010 at 11:02 am

    “All workers to get same holidays as PM”

    The teachers’ union isn’t going to be happy.
13. grumpy 13

    12 January 2010 at 11:57 am

    So, if JK works on weekends or statutory holidays, does he get days in lieu?
14. Brett Dale 14

    12 January 2010 at 12:08 pm

    Hopw many weeks hoiklday a year did Helen Clark take.
    • Bright Red 14.1

      12 January 2010 at 4:28 pm

      not 2 months in every 14, I’ll bet you that much.

      Tell you what Brett, if you think it’s OK for Key to take 2 months in 14 off on overseas trips as long as Clark did (despite the fact that you hated Clark) why don’t you work how how much overseas leave she took and tell us.

      Bet it’s not 2 months in 14.
    • burt 14.2

      12 January 2010 at 6:08 pm

      Brett Dale

      You know that’s different. Helen was a competent and popular PM and everything she did was always good.
15. burt 15

    12 January 2010 at 12:48 pm

    When self serving Labour were in charge I regularly posted comments about how is it that the PM (and senior ministers) get circa 9% pay rises every year while the general workforce gets 2%-3% if they are lucky. I was regularly shot down for this because the PM isn’t in charge of setting his/her own salary.

    But on the subject of extra weeks leave, that is a tough one. Perhaps the solution would be for the same percentage increase the MPs get to be given to all the public service always. So if the MPs get a 9% payrise – so do the teachers, doctors, police etc.

    Lets get that sorted then work on the holidays as well, but as noted above – the teachers won’t like this and they are just starting to get over being called rich pricks under Labour so tread carefully with them if you want their support to return to Labour.
    • Pascal's bookie 15.1

      12 January 2010 at 12:58 pm

      I’m not at all sure that mp’s have these sort of contracts.

      AFAIK they can take as many holidays and do as little work as they like. Judgements about whether or not they are troughing that entitlement are political, which would make them fair game for comment I’d think.

      If there is some sort of employment contract specifying their entitlements, I’d be obliged if someone could confirm that.
16. burt 16

    12 January 2010 at 1:03 pm

    Pascal’s bookie

    Well that’s even more of a concern isn’t it. It is interesting that when “the red team” were in charge the red team supporters had no issue with, and actually defended, the pay and entitlements their team enjoyed. All changed when the red team got the boot eh – now the red team supporters are actually looking at what they are talking about rather than just being apologists for self serving troughers…

    Hell in 2007 Helen’s pay rise was bigger than the gross pay of a minimum wage worker – this will be the same for Key but I suspect I won’t be shot down pointing it out like I have been in the past.
    • Pascal's bookie 16.1

      12 January 2010 at 1:09 pm

      Don’t be too stupid burt.

      Whther or not they are troughing it is a judgement call. It’s quite possible to think the system itself is ok, and that one team is abusing it and the other is not. But whatevs.
    • lprent 16.2

      12 January 2010 at 1:21 pm

      Ummm wasn’t the topic on MPs and specifically the PMs holidays? What do wages have to do with it?

      The wages are set by the state services commission.

      I suspect that the holidays are set by the MP concerned themselves.

      So you’re just doing a pile of bullshit – what for? Diversion…
    • Bright Red 16.3

      12 January 2010 at 4:17 pm

      MPs don’t determine their salaries, burt, the Remuneration Board does. MPs do determine how much time they take on holiday, and where they go to.

      Are you cool with a PM taking 2 months off in 14? Would you be cool if Clark had done it? Of course not.
17. Noo 17

    12 January 2010 at 4:30 pm

    IrishBill: A couple of days ago I banned you for a week. Now I think I’ll make it two.

    [lprent: Ah – I missed that… Explains what was happening. I should have backtracked him. Oh well he has had a few comments pushed to anti-spam now. ]

    IrishBill: Sorry Lynn, I should have flicked you an email. He was posting as “yess” at the time. First ban for 2010.
    • felix 17.1

      12 January 2010 at 4:55 pm

      Yep you’re clearly too busy to comment.

      Well done.
18. dirtystandardfilth 18

    12 January 2010 at 8:30 pm

    [deleted]
19. John Plato 19

    8 February 2010 at 3:08 pm

    If this goes through it will definatly be a blow to employeers.

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