Allan fired

Written By: - Date published: 8:38 am, July 24th, 2023 - 162 comments
Categories: labour, political parties - Tags:

This does not help.

Kiritapu Allan has been fired as a Minister after being charged with reckless driving, resisting arrest and driving in breach of alcohol limits last night.

On the face of it she clearly failed the attitude test.  This suggests that her decision making was not optimal.

Her recent personal difficulties have been well documented.  Parliament is not the sort of workplace that allows you a supported transition back into good health.

National and Act will be like pigs in mud this week.

And rational debate about the future of the country, and how we deal with climate change and child poverty will be obliterated in a process of Wellington centric unpicking of a personal tragedy.

Update: The Police now say that Allan has been charged with careless driving not reckless driving.  This is significantly different.  Careless use is a fine only offence, reckless driving can involve a jail sentence.  This is very sloppy reporting by the police who should know better.  And the second charge was refusing to accompany not resisting arrest.  Very very sloppy although the decision to fire her is still appropriate.

Further update: It appears that the source of the misdescription may have been Allan herself.

162 comments on “Allan fired ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Mr Nobody 1
    24 July 2023 at 8:59 am

    It would be nice if we could pretend Chippy had been able to show decisive leadership by firing Kiri, unfortunately she resigned.

    "Allan, in a statement, said she had immediately resigned"

    NZ Herald

    • SPC 1.1
      24 July 2023 at 9:15 am

      If you ignore the fact the PM's statement was issued before her own (indicating she had resigned).

      One can note that the ministerial matters faced this year were all historical ones.

      • Mr Nobody 1.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 9:26 am

        Except Chippy's statement agrees Kiri resigned and was not fired.

        "She’s advised me she wishes to resign all her portfolios immediately"

        Stuff

        I'm sure there will be those who will claim this is just "Political Speak" however it is clear to any reasonable person that Chippy is weak and unable to manage his Ministers.

        • SPC 1.1.1.1
          24 July 2023 at 10:08 am

          Defining yourself as an arbiter of reasonable, is somewhat arrogant, as well as untrue.

        • observer 1.1.1.2
          24 July 2023 at 10:13 am

          If you bothered to listen to the PM's press conference you would know your take is wrong, though obviously you aren't here for accuracy.

        • Michael P 1.1.1.3
          25 July 2023 at 1:33 am

          It's not weak at all, With someone who has put themselves in Allen's position you should always allow them to do the right thing and resign. If she hadn't resigned then I don't think there's any doubt she would have been fired.

          How does it show he is unable to manage his ministers??? She made a personal choice to get in her car and drive whilst drunk, not sure how he could have prevented that.

    • Terry 1.2
      24 July 2023 at 9:26 am

      I’m guessing that if she hadn’t immediately resigned, she would’ve been sacked. She also needs to resign from parliament.

      And before people say I’m being harsh, being a cabinet minister means being a grown up, this just can’t happen. She was in Wellington, cabinet ministers have access to chauffeur driven cars, Uber and also old fashioned taxis.

      I’ve known guys & girls who have done the same thing, & their employer has sacked them.

      • SPC 1.2.1
        24 July 2023 at 10:26 am

        She has said she will be reviewing her future in politics.

        I could recount the story of the head of police prosecutions who was found asleep in a car after being in a police bar (he however got home before officers arrived there to ask him if he was well and OK to resume work). I'd name him, (he once replied to one of my letters to a police minister, with what I would regard as warning not to ask questions about police practice, so I am tempted to) but it is not a matter of formal public record.

        • Michael P 1.2.1.1
          25 July 2023 at 1:46 am

          A warning?

          Do you mean a threat?

          If so then you should absolutely have reported it

          • SPC 1.2.1.1.1
            25 July 2023 at 5:23 am

            Reported to whom.

            The Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) investigates and tries to resolve complaints against the police.

            I was informed that I should not ever write again about the matter to the police minister (after an earlier letter was replied to at the local level without answering the questions asked and on that same day I was a victim of a classic gaslighting method by the force concerned).

            I could go on a bit about the modern PW methodologies available to the establishment, but most people really have no idea (and not revealed to joe public, but "classified").

          • SPC 1.2.1.1.2
            25 July 2023 at 8:00 pm

            I can now add, the years of tinnitus back then, returned today. I am once again left with the concept of consequences for any challenge to the corrupt of this country.

            The long arm of the law, with modern technologies, is that ability to bully and gaslight the victim.

      • Corey 1.2.2
        24 July 2023 at 1:30 pm

        100%

      • Michael P 1.2.3
        25 July 2023 at 1:44 am

        I agree she should resign as an MP. Members of parliament are elected by the public and are in a position where deliberately breaking the law is unforgiveable. If she is found guilty of drink driving then she has to resign, I don't see how she could remain and still have the confidence of the public. What if she had killed someone…

        The people you mention that were sacked by their employer must have been driving a company car or still at work else they couldn't have been sacked. (unless such an act meets the criteria for serious misconduct in their employment contract)

  2. Ad 2
    24 July 2023 at 9:23 am

    Who is taking over her ministerial portfolios?

    Who is left?

    Presumably we will wait until after Cabinet meeting.

    • bwaghorn 2.1
      24 July 2023 at 1:32 pm

      Might as well call a snap election and get it over with, allen has hammered the final nail in the coffee

      • Phillip ure 2.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 3:26 pm

        The right-winger hehir noted on rnz that when voters go into the booth in 12 weeks they will be voting on cost of living etc etc….

        Not on the demise of a minister…

        'final nail in coffin' earns you a place on the shortlist for today's hyperbole-award…

    • Corey 2.2
      24 July 2023 at 1:33 pm

      Duncan Webb should get it surely, yes he's outside of cabinet but he should have been in cabinet years ago,even Helen Clark on election night said he should be minister of foreign affairs or justice!

  3. Tiger Mountain 3
    24 July 2023 at 9:26 am

    Unfortunately you need to be a hard arse to survive in Parliamentary politics as many have discovered over the decades. Todd Muller had a meltdown and got an easy ride from the media channels, Kiri Allan will be unlikely to get similar treatment.

    Hopefully the demographic change from boomers to new gens will see the NZ Labour Caucus dramas sidelined in favour of keeping Natzos and Act away from office.

    • Terry 3.1
      24 July 2023 at 9:47 am

      Todd Muller didn’t crash his car after drinking & then get arrested for resisting arrest. It appears that Kiri Allen has done such a thing. This is what she will (rightly so in my opinion) crucified for.

      Of all the stupid things a cabinet minister can do is crashing a car and then getting arrested.

      She needs to leave parliament and walk in the wilderness for a while.

      • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 9:53 am

        crucified

        Really? What a crass shithead.

        • Terry 3.1.1.1
          24 July 2023 at 10:53 am

          Why am I a “shithead”? You without doubt would crucify someone from national or act if they had done the same.

          We cannot in any way have a cabinet minister getting arrested for resisting arrest. There is no excuse for this. Labour needs to cut her loose now. Sure Labour can say that they will “support her recovery”, but she has to go & stay gone.

          The rest of us ordinary workers get zero sympathy when this happens to us. What is so special about a Kiri Allen, that she deserves some sympathy?

          I’m saving my sympathy for the families of two men who were murdered in their work place, and the family of the kidnapped woman in Christchurch.

          The only saving grace, is that while she was drunkenly driving her car, she didn’t run into someone and kill or injure them.

          For gods sake, back in the ‘80’s & ‘90’s we collectively had zero sympathy for drunk drivers.

          • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.1.1.1.1
            24 July 2023 at 11:04 am

            You without doubt would crucify someone from national or act if they had done the same.

            You..know nothing about me. Obviously. And thankful for that I am. As to crucifying Kiri Allen ? Or anyone for that matter ?

            I stand by what I wrote.

            • Corey 3.1.1.1.1.1
              24 July 2023 at 1:39 pm

              Terry very clearly meant the media was going to onslaught on her would be like nothing we ever seen before…

              The minister of justice, the minister who explains and defends government laws, arrested for careless driving and being belligerent to the cops and refusing to accompany them.

              The country is reacting to this the way the left would react if Kiri was a national minister who did this: no sympathy

              • PsyclingLeft.Always …
                24 July 2023 at 2:22 pm

                Hey there…corey. Dont attempt to "explain" what other people have clearly written… for my benefit.

                • LawfulN …
                  24 July 2023 at 3:04 pm

                  But you appear to need common figures of speech explained to you.

                  • PsyclingLeft.Always …
                    24 July 2023 at 4:27 pm

                    To crucify someone (and for what exactly ?) might well be common to you and your fellow comment circle.

                    Quite glad to not be anywhere near you and your ilk…

                • Terry …
                  24 July 2023 at 3:41 pm

                  Corey, thanks for clarifying, what I was in-elequently attempting to say.

                  You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.

          • SPC 3.1.1.1.2
            24 July 2023 at 11:06 am

            Her level of blood alcohol was such she would have been under the limit applying back then. We have since moved to discourage any (even moderate levels) drinking while out and about with the car.

          • Anne 3.1.1.1.3
            24 July 2023 at 11:17 am

            I’m saving my sympathy for the families of two men who were murdered in their work place, and the family of the kidnapped woman in Christchurch.

            Oh, so Terry has a selection process he follows when assessing whether to have sympathy for someone based on who else is deserving of sympathy (for whatever reason) at the same time. There isn't enough sympathy available to go around you see, so someone has to dip out. Stupid is as stupid does. 🙄

            • Terry 3.1.1.1.3.1
              24 July 2023 at 12:08 pm

              Well it’s like a sliding scale…

              A woman being kidnapped and possibly worse is tragic and horrifying.

              A couple of men being gunned down in the workplace is also tragic and horrific.

              A father driving home on a Saturday evening bringing seriously injured in an accident caused by a drunk driver is also tragic and horrific.

              The innocent person and families in the above stories deserve sympathy.

              A drunk driver who crashes into a parked vehicle, who then gets arrested for resisting arrest, doesn’t deserve sympathy.

              She deserves someone telling her that she should have known better and that she’s a grown up who needs to sort her stuff out.

            • Terry 3.1.1.1.3.2
              24 July 2023 at 12:11 pm

              Oh and I guess the families of those men who were gunned down and murdered in their workplace are not deserving of sympathy?

              • Anne …
                24 July 2023 at 12:13 pm

                As I said:

                Stupid is as stupid does. 🙄

                • Terry …
                  24 July 2023 at 3:44 pm

                  Stupid is being a highly paid Cabinet minister, who after a glass or two of wine, gets into a car, crashes, and gets arrested.

                  • In Vino …
                    24 July 2023 at 8:44 pm

                    No Terry

                    Stupid is obviously trolling.

                    On this sad day, your sliding scale looks like cynical opportunism, and your spelling is not great.. (Irony: 'elequently??')

                    You show a total failure to understand what Anne wrote.

                    Just bog off, you idiot.

                    • Michael P …
                      25 July 2023 at 2:09 am

                      Stupid is someone who deliberately gets in a car and drives under the influence of alcohol.

                      Why would you have sympathy for someone who drinks and drives? It's not like she can't afford an uber or a taxi. She could have easily killed someone, If she hadn't been drinking and had a car accident then absolutely I would have sympathy for her, but she made a conscious choice to drink alcohol and then put the public in danger by driving.

                    • Terry …
                      25 July 2023 at 1:47 pm

                      Sorry, my spelling is not great!!! Seriously!!!
                      I take it that you were the class prig, who sat at the front of the class, always brought a apple for the teacher, & told tales on your classmates. As a result you had no friends and grew up with a BO Problem.

                    • In Vino …
                      25 July 2023 at 6:37 pm

                      Nice Tui moment there, Terry…

        • MAWG 3.1.1.2
          24 July 2023 at 12:22 pm

          There's nothing crass about it. After last night she simply cannot fulfil the roles she was elected to perform.

          For her own benefit, she needs to step away from politics. For the benefit of her Party, she cannot remain, especially with these events occurring so close to the election.

          If you would call for any National or ACT MP to resign for similar conduct, then you cannot reasonably expect her to remain in her current role, such as it is…

          • observer 3.1.1.2.1
            24 July 2023 at 12:33 pm

            I don't think anybody is suggesting that she should.

          • PsyclingLeft.Always 3.1.1.2.2
            24 July 2023 at 2:16 pm

            Hello? Crass, as in Crucified. As in : Crucify this woman. Who has had cancer. And Mental Health issues. You might just want to re-ponder there…..

      • SPC 3.1.2
        24 July 2023 at 10:15 am

        She was arrested after not going willingly with a police officer (for processing and alcohol testing presumably).

        • alwyn 3.1.2.1
          24 July 2023 at 10:33 am

          There has apparently been no charge for the over the alcohol limit.

          The reckless driving charge has been dropped to merely careless driving.

          No doubt the resisting arrest can be dropped as only being a misunderstanding because she was in a state of shock after bumping her head or suchlike.

          By tomorrow morning her supporters will all be saying that she has been exonerated and was only being picked on because she was a Maori woman.

          Chippie will go quiet and point out that she resigned and that he didn't sack her but only accepted her resignation because she asked to be allowed to quit and she really didn't do anything wrong at all. It is all Chris Luxon's fault will be the cry and it is Luxon who should resign.

          • observer 3.1.2.1.1
            24 July 2023 at 10:39 am

            You did OK with a couple of factual sentences to start. Should have stopped there. Leave fantasy writing to George RR Martin.

            • alwyn 3.1.2.1.1.1
              24 July 2023 at 5:54 pm

              I see the third sentence is now well on the way to being correct.

              She isn't now being charged with resisting arrest. It has been lowered to refusing to accompany a police officer. How long before the offenses are all wiped?

              • In Vino …
                24 July 2023 at 8:49 pm

                alwyn, old boy, don't hold your breath waiting for further affirmation.

                I enjoyed the malicious humour of you last two paragraphs, but…

              • SPC …
                24 July 2023 at 9:08 pm

                What do you mean – it was already at that level when you wrote your post at 10.33.

                Note my 10.47 am post.

                The refusing to accompany a police officer charge still stands.

                • alwyn …
                  25 July 2023 at 10:17 am

                  At the time I wrote it I had only heard Hipkins original announcement that she had been charged with resisting arrest.

                  I believed him at the time. Silly me.

          • SPC 3.1.2.1.2
            24 July 2023 at 10:47 am

            It's apparently standard for there to be an infringement notice for excess breath alcohol between 250 and 400 micrograms (the old limit).

            Going from reckless to careless use of a motor vehicle, is a way to manage a guilty plea and avoid wasting court time. The refusing to accompany a police officer charge still stands.

          • Phillip ure 3.1.2.1.3
            24 July 2023 at 5:33 pm

            Alwyn..!..have you met terry yet..?

            I reckon you two could hit it off..

            ( He's a (self-styled) working class hero…didn'tyaknow..?)

            • alwyn 3.1.2.1.3.1
              24 July 2023 at 5:56 pm

              I assume you think you are talking sense. I however haven't the faintest understanding of what you are trying to say.

          • Michael P 3.1.2.1.4
            25 July 2023 at 2:14 am

            Do you know why no charge for the over the alcohol limit? This would be a very bad look for the Police and the Government unless there's a very good reason for no DUI charge. The public would see this as one rule for some and a different one for the rest of us.

            • SPC 3.1.2.1.4.1
              25 July 2023 at 5:08 am

              The media have covered why. The low level of alcohol.

              It's apparently standard for there to be an infringement notice for excess breath alcohol between 250 and 400 micrograms (the old limit).

            • observer 3.1.2.1.4.2
              25 July 2023 at 11:04 am

              The public would see this as one rule for some and a different one for the rest of us.

              The public could see a lot of things that aren't there, if they choose to be uninformed.

              Allan was not treated differently from the rest of us, as the detailed reporting on the incident has made very clear.

      • roy cartland 3.1.3
        24 July 2023 at 11:16 am

        —[EXAMPLE]— Todd Muller, the pathetic fcking loser, who gambled his career on everyone thinking he was god's gift. Came crashing down when he found he was too weak and stupid to lead that bag of chickenshits, dragged everyone down with him and wimped out crying about his 'mental' health. Mental, alright – severely so.

        Then when the media started asking questions about why he was such a sooking little crybaby, he played the "feel-sorry-for-me-beacuse-I'm-mental" card – and it worked! they fell for it! Hopeless pathetic loser who the country would be better off without gets out of jail free, because "oh I'm so sad now". What self-respecting party would entertain keeping such an obvious loser, wimp and hopeless sack of uselessness. Everyone hates him, and he still pretends that it's sympathy they're expressing. He's an embarrassment to all. Needs to be literally crucified, then we'll see if he's actually 'really brave' as he keeps whining that he is because he "spoke out" (ugh!).

        See I never read anything like the above account in the media re Todd Muller (or JL Ross). That'd be close to the 'crucifiction' you're baying for. Ugly and unnecessary, but according to you, quite deserved when it's not your beloved boys in the gun.

        • Terry 3.1.3.1
          24 July 2023 at 12:24 pm

          Well I don’t think that I recall either of them drunkenly driving their car into a parked vehicle and then being arrested. All while being the cabinet minister for Justice!

          We should all be angry about this! People in these positions cannot be putting themselves in this situation. It’s just not acceptable!

          • bwaghorn 3.1.3.1.1
            24 July 2023 at 1:36 pm

            I'm not mad just disappointed!!

          • roy cartland 3.1.3.1.2
            24 July 2023 at 1:59 pm

            You said crucify. That's not anger, that's idiocy and I think you know it.

            • Terry 3.1.3.1.2.1
              24 July 2023 at 3:53 pm

              Calm down Roy, you are obviously from Canterbury, being so one eyed.

              I’m sure on any given Monday, ordinary voters/taxpayers are heading into work, shame faced because they got caught drink driving, and have to explain to their bosses what happened over the weekend.

              This sort of behaviour has nothing to do with politics, sexuality, gender etc. It’s about one of our most senior politicians being arrested.

              I’m angry because it’s someone in power who should have known better, & because at heart I’m a Labour supporter.

              • bwaghorn …
                24 July 2023 at 3:57 pm

                How'd ya feel about a prime minister repeatedly touching a young woman's in a hair in a creepy fetish manner despite being asked not to,???

                • In Vino …
                  24 July 2023 at 8:53 pm

                  Terry has just revealed himself as yet another concern troll.

                  Welcome to the long, tiresome list. Terry.

              • Roy Cartland …
                24 July 2023 at 11:17 pm

                I'm glad you think I'm from Canterbury, because that dump typifies the worst in this country – farm after shitting farm, fouling our rivers to the horizon. A bit like the posts I've been making, as you'd see it.

                Nice try, but you're not a 'supporter' of anything (and certainly don't have a heart) – you're a known and proven troll, who didn't like what he saw in the mirror I'm holding upb to you. Boo hoo.

            • Michael P 3.1.3.1.2.2
              25 July 2023 at 2:22 am

              It's called a figure of speech and used in this context probably (very very likely) means she should be severely criticized and pressured to resign.

      • Kiwi_in Aus 3.1.4
        26 July 2023 at 1:32 pm

        Justice minister, nonetheless.

    • Michael P 3.2
      25 July 2023 at 1:51 am

      You don't need to be hard arsed, you just need to be of good character, 100% honest with those who you represent, principled and law abiding. Probably helps if you're there for the right reasons too I would guess.

      • Tony Veitch 3.2.1
        25 July 2023 at 5:26 am

        you just need to be of good character, 100% honest with those who you represent, principled and law abiding

        Oh, you mean like Woodhouse, Kuriger, Lee and Uffendell etc?

  4. miravox 4
    24 July 2023 at 9:28 am

    I hope she has a lot of love and support surrounding her while she rebuilds and recovers and continues to be awesome in whatever comes next.

    • Anne 4.1
      24 July 2023 at 10:09 am

      Ditto miravox.

      I suspect Kiri Allan has been going through more than we know about. Given the toxicity in society these days it is possible she is also coping with a nasty form of harassment. We will know more in due course.

      In the meantime, those who take delight in judging others without knowledge of contributing factors are loathsome individuals who should be shunned.

      • newsense 4.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 11:50 am

        And the first question from the press was to blame Hipkins for letting her return to work.

        After the press harassed her without any process or natural justice.

        The problem here is that the right is allowed to wage campaigns on Dame Jacinda, calling for her to be hanging, setting fire to the playground at parliament and generally being absolutely awful in a way that would get them arrested if they were harassing anyone else.

        Perhaps what is missing is a harassment campaign from the left. We see a mayor who can call for effigies of journos pissed on, journos who can accuse ministers at a much much lower burden of proof than anyone else, and an opposition who got ticked off by Audrey Young (and no one else) for using the protest at parliament for political gain.

        The only harassment right wing figures get is from their own side.

        It’s not a new thing though the form is. I knew someone who was standing for a small local roll and got followed at public meetings by goons from another party who were not there to debate.

        The right has seen kindness and empathy as dirty words.

        I wish these cretinous vultures had to suffer the same way that Dane Jacinda had. That they had to understand how that impacts.

        Currently if you’re a right wing journo involved in a dirty politics sting all you have to do is apologise at the end of your career and you are lionised as an amazing self aware font of wisdom. ‘I’m sorry I participated in a conspiracy of lies to damage a politician and affect the election. Worked though didn’t it?’

        Perhaps tomorrow Hipkins will introduce the Relationship Trouble act where you will be required to share all messages in your relationship so your employer can judge your state of mind before allowing you back from leave. #sarc

        • Anne 4.1.1.1
          24 July 2023 at 12:05 pm

          "Perhaps what is missing is a harassment campaign from the left…"

          I concur. It doesn't have to be dirty like the other side. Labour is allowing the perpetrators from the right to get away with murder (metaphorically speaking). They should be calling them out at every turn.

          Labour seem to have an expectation that the majority of voters will see through these dirty campaigns. They are wrong. It is almost as if they are fearful of their detractors in the media in particular and what they might do to them.

          • newsense 4.1.1.1.1
            25 July 2023 at 2:18 am

            I mean I am angry that this kind of shit is just par for the course:

            She gave an example: “I was at a Bunnings, got the kids with the bloody sausages and tomato sauce over their hands, we’re running through trying to get nails or whatever we were doing, and just literally being cornered in by two people who were very aggrieved around mandates, locking us in – myself, my partner and our two kids, in a row in Bunnings … I don’t like that that has become the state of New Zealand.”

            https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/24-07-2023/the-kiri-allan-story

            I’d just love to share that experience of work with the nameless and faceless accusers who wouldn’t raise an employment issue but mouthed off in the press and the slimeball reporters who got on their high horse. Maybe she had something to answer, but the way it was done seemed calculated to stick the knife into someone at their lowest ebb and to overshadow the PM’s biggest trip overseas.

      • Tiger Mountain 4.1.2
        24 July 2023 at 1:17 pm

        yes
        Agree Anne.

      • Heather Grimwood 4.1.3
        24 July 2023 at 2:47 pm

        To Anne at 4.1 : My thoughts too Anne…the scene has always been toxic for many women, some obvious, much coped with in silence.

        I know of four prominent women parliamentarians who suffered such abuse in earlier years, three resigning on account of it.

        • Anne 4.1.3.1
          24 July 2023 at 6:01 pm

          Yes Heather Grimwood. I went through a series of abusive experiences which saw me forced out of a career and job 30 years ago. It went well beyond the workplace and left me with PTSD. I therefore have compassion for anyone who has been or is being treated in a similar fashion.

          Its so easy for the ignorant – and those who lack empathy for the tribulations of others – to blame the victim for their misfortunes without taking into account what they may have been through, and how it may have temporarily left their ability to cope.

  5. PsyclingLeft.Always 5
    24 July 2023 at 9:29 am

    I have a lot of empathy for Kiri Allan. Still wish her all the best. And Labour. And all the "coulda, woulda, shouda"…..is not going to DO anything.

    At the moment..Im not too sure how I feel about our chances to keep the NAct creeps from power.

    Who have Labour got to jump in and get moving to make a difference?

    • Tiger Mountain 5.1
      24 July 2023 at 10:07 am

      Slim pickings at the moment it would seem. Well past time to boot Rogernomics as Te Pāti Māori have already said. But, nonetheless, NZ Labour are still the lesser evil in the situation and have to be supported for one more round–though I am weighing up Green vs. TPM.

  6. Muttonbird 6
    24 July 2023 at 9:31 am

    Surely she was just kicking the tyres of the justice system? Seems to be working ok.

    • Dennis Frank 6.1
      24 July 2023 at 9:46 am

      Good one. yes smiley Unfortunately, she missed her opportunity to explain that motivation to the public. Labour's desire to imprison 12-yr-old ram-raiders could be explained similarly perhaps, with a bit of judicious spin-doctoring.

    • roy cartland 6.2
      24 July 2023 at 11:21 am

      Haha nice one. Doing an internal audit, you might say.

  7. Reality 7
    24 July 2023 at 10:06 am

    It is sad for Kiri that she was really not ready for being back in the bear pit. It is sad for the PM that this has happened not just now, but any time. And it is sad to see the caustic, gleeful comments from some of the commenters here. For goodness sake, Kiri has had serious cancer and personal problems. Show some decency, though some people don't know what that means.

  8. Seti 8
    24 July 2023 at 10:08 am

    Resisting arrest is the most flagrant issue here. From a minister of the Crown. The Justice Minister, no less.

    Sure, a driving mistake was made but to then physically refuse or challenge the police is an affront to the nation.

    Good riddance.

    • SPC 8.1
      24 July 2023 at 10:18 am

      The arrest and charge was in not willingly complying with a request to accompany police for charging (as to the driving offence) and presumably a blood alcohol test.

      • Seti 8.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 10:28 am

        Exactly. Required to accompany, she tells them where to go. It is highly likely she would also have been warned after the initial refusal that failing to accompany would result in arrest, yet here we are.

        • Dennis Frank 8.1.1.1
          24 July 2023 at 10:44 am

          When inebriated, kiwi males are sometimes inclined to tell cops to fuck off. Good to see kiwi females coming to that party, huh? And one who just happened to be justice minister at the time. Sets a new standard for democracy – unlikely to be surpassed soon, even by the next Labour minister!

          Still, look on the bright side; she has not been reported as asking the cops if they knew who she was.

        • Anne 8.1.1.2
          24 July 2023 at 10:53 am

          Scenario as foreshadowed by Seti:

          Kiri prangs a 4WD parked on the side of the road. The police are called. Kiri throws a wobbly and refuses to cooperate with them. Did she stamp her feet too Seti? Did they drag her handcuffed into the police car? Do tell us the juicy tid-bits. We'd love to know cos we’re not clairvoyant. (sarc)

          • Jack 8.1.1.2.1
            24 July 2023 at 11:08 am

            What more is there to know? The facts as I understand them are that the then justice minister failed to accompany a police officer when required to do so.

            Inexcusable under any lens.

            • roy cartland 8.1.1.2.1.1
              24 July 2023 at 11:24 am

              They reported it as 'Kiri had a car crash'. I would never describe swiping a parked car as a crash, I would have thought that 'crash' involved another motorist, as considerable speed. Preferably with the other person injured and the cars written off.

                • Anker …
                  24 July 2023 at 3:41 pm

                  TBH I have no idea how she managed to do that. Initially I thought she must have hit a parked car while passing it. On Wellingtons very narrow streets a little more understandable, but having said that that hardly ever happens. But this particular road is pretty wide and a relatively easy drive especially when there's not much traffic is around.

                  I have some compassion for her and hope she is getting a lot of support.

                  On the other hand she was driving under the influence of alcohol and over the limit. Unforgivable. We all know not to do this and most people who are suffering from depression don't do. this. If she has had professional help it is likely that she was told alcohol and depression aren't a good mix especially if she was taking anti depressants. Just no excuses for driving over the limit.

                • Roy Cartland …
                  24 July 2023 at 11:19 pm

                  Wow, it's even more pathetic then I thought, thanks Molly! This is what a 'crash'is now?? Jesus wept, and loudly.

              • Terry …
                24 July 2023 at 3:59 pm

                From what I can see on the photo, the rear wheel & axle have been pushed forward. This will be expensive to fix. Certainly not just a swipe.

  9. observer 9
    24 July 2023 at 10:23 am

    Obviously this is going to be a vulture thread, which will say more about the vultures than Kiri Allan. So courageous, to feast on a corpse.

    Her political career is over, and that is very sad. I hope she gets the help she needs. MPs and Ministers come and go, most are asterisks in a footnote to history, but there is only one life to live. Aroha to her.

  10. Sabine 10
    24 July 2023 at 10:23 am

    Can we blame their employer? Please, pretty pretty please.

    They clearly had mental health issues, and probably for a while now, and they simply is now at a stage where any and all coping strategies they might have had no longer work. Should they have been sent on a longer holiday after the last time they were in the news, yes. Should they never have been burdened with hard portfolios such as justice as such a young member of parliament and such a vulnerable member, yes too.

    As above stated, they have access to drivers, ubers, and the likes, they did not need to chauffeur their own vehicle. Fuck this is sad and depressing. Not because they are a Labour MP, or a prominent Tangata Whenua, but because it is and was and always will be such a pointless offense by those that have paid drivers and free vehicles at their disposition. Drink, don't drive.

    Will the Labour Party survive their own hubris.

    • Terry 10.1
      24 July 2023 at 11:24 am

      Yes!

      I remember as a kid in the ‘70’s at a friend’s place up the road, it was as Saturday night. The cops came knocking at the door, my friends dad had been in an accident caused by a drunk driver. It was a horrible experience, & unfortunately back then all too common.

      Joe public doing this is one thing, but a cabinet minister!

    • Patricia Bremner 10.2
      24 July 2023 at 1:08 pm

      What do you understand "Mental Health Issues" to mean?

      In general terms it means making bad/poor/inappropriate decisions based on faulty perceptions or loss of any sense of danger due to overload of emotion, or being partially or totally detached from reality.

      The decisions made here were self damaging, and very sad. I am glad she has ongoing support and love.

      • Sabine 10.2.1
        24 July 2023 at 2:35 pm

        I mean mental health issues to mean mental health issues.

        We can all have them from times. Break up of personal relationships, body issues, stress, high work load, public scrutiny etc, all can cause mental health issues. And sometimes they can cause us to do dumb stuff that we regret for many years to come.

        Drink driving despite having an option of uber or driver is one of the things that can fall under 'mental health issues' that causes us to do dumb stuff that we would not do were we of fully rational mind.

        And again, Ii stress Patricia, that I believe that everyone can have these 'mental health issues' in the same circumstances. Not everyone does, but everyone can, and many do.

        I also consider these types of 'mental health issues' to be temporary, meaning with a reduction of stress/workload, a distance to family issues, speak therapy with a professional or a priest/spiritual advisor or iwi/whanau elder, a break from routine etc might be enough to provide some much needed clarity of thought again.

        Kiri Allen had a lot of stuff going on, and maybe they needed a bigger plate for all that stuff but was not provided one and the one they had just broke under the heavy load.

    • In Vino 10.3
      24 July 2023 at 9:09 pm

      Thank you Sabine for showing what a ridiculous effect that silly pronoun thing can have upon our language.

      I do not believe that normal people will ever do what you just did so diligently!

      In your second language, too!

  11. Sanctuary 11
    24 July 2023 at 10:24 am

    Jeez Chris Hipkins looked shattered at his press conference just now. I know the look, it was the face of someone who had sat through the night next to a loved one on their death bed.

  12. observer 12
    24 July 2023 at 10:36 am

    Press Gallery at PM's press conference give yet another demonstration of how they are trapped inside the bubble. Reporter asks about a snap election … because the public (those strange people who live outside the building) are marching and chanting for September instead of October? Nobody with any grasp of reality thinks that. FFS.

    • SPC 12.1
      24 July 2023 at 10:54 am

      The tendency to focus on the practice of politics, rather than the issues of governance for the good of wider society, is why there is reference to the gallery as creatures of the beltway. The talk of a snap election is just them trying to create a news angle to connect their style of gotcha politics to the wider public.

      It’s like a pretence of being important to the democratic process, without much reference to the real concerns of the wider society. The ultimate in continuance of the form of democratic normality in an era of a neo-liberal small government. Which could be called a transition stage towards the American style culture war populism to bed in a class order of rule.

  13. tsmithfield 13
    24 July 2023 at 10:49 am

    I hope she gets diversion over this. It seems to me she has been under huge pressure. Hopefully the police will take this into account. I don't think it would be good for her mental health to have to deal with a court conviction on top of what she has been going through already. As much as I disagree with her politics, she seems like a genuinely good person.

    • Terry 13.1
      24 July 2023 at 11:26 am

      Why diversion? I know people who have been sacked for being charged with this type of offence, and they are nowhere near the level of responsibility as a cabinet minister.

      • Belladonna 13.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 11:44 am

        I think that civil penalties (e.g. losing your job for bringing your employer into disrepute; or because your usual employment requires driving) – are quite different to legal penalties (a conviction).

        Diversion would only apply to the latter.

        • Michael P 13.1.1.1
          25 July 2023 at 2:37 am

          She could be admonished without conviction if the Judge decides that is appropriate but I would doubt that will happen.

      • observer 13.1.2
        24 July 2023 at 11:48 am

        And there are others who have been convicted (not just charged) of more serious crimes, and yet they have permanent name suppression. Justice is not equal, never has been.

        Allan is now facing a level of crushing humiliation and condemnation that most of us could not even begin to cope with, all in the full glare of the media spotlight. She probably wants to curl up into a ball and make the world go away.

        Her sentence is permanent. A promising political career is over, forever, and it will be a long time before she can play any kind of role in public life. Any court verdict will be a minor punishment by comparison.

        • Michael P 13.1.2.1
          25 July 2023 at 2:55 am

          "And there are others who have been convicted (not just charged) of more serious crimes, and yet they have permanent name suppression. Justice is not equal, never has been."

          Why would she get name suppression, there has to be a very good reason and having mental health issues isn't one of them. Especially as an elected member of parliament it is very much in the public interest for her name to be published. I haven't read anything to suggest that she applied for interim name suppression?

          As for the rest of your comment. If somebody chooses a career in the public eye, especially an elected position of trust then you have to understand everything that comes with that including the consequences for breaking the law. I couldn't imagine any situation where a sitting member of parliament would get name suppression after breaking the law no matter what the crime because it is a position with public accountability.

          • observer 13.1.2.1.1
            25 July 2023 at 10:59 am

            Of course she wouldn't/shouldn't get name suppression. You've missed the point entirely.

    • Belladonna 13.2
      24 July 2023 at 11:48 am

      I agree.
      Last week I felt she was the star of the Labour team in presenting their Law and order policies.

      Regardless of whether you agree or disagree on the policies, she was articulate, intelligent and all over the detail (unlike Davis, for example). She looked like someone with a long career ahead in politics. Truly one of the bright spots in the Labour line-up.

      This must be a desperately sad outcome, for her supporters and for Allan herself.

      I truly hope that she is getting the support she needs to come to terms with her decisions and the reasons for them.

  14. Mac1 14
    24 July 2023 at 11:35 am

    I've been thinking about this Kiri Allen situation and first I thought how would I in my own life be situated? Yes, I've clipped a car under the influence. Yes, I've had four cancer diagnoses and treatments and know something of that pressure. Yes, I've had a serious relationship break-up when young. Yes, I've had three months off work due to 'hitting the wall'.

    So, some understanding there. I went on to read what others were saying, and some of the criticism especially made me think of the saying "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

    I went to read about that biblical injunction and what looked like a more fundamentalist interpretation suggested itself. It was a good choice.

    For it looked at the background and also to an interpretation beyond the most obvious one.

    Christ saw that the motivation of the Pharisees was also involved in their bringing the adulteress to him for condemnation. They should also have brought the male partner as both were under Mosaic Law equally guilty.

    They were trying to trap Christ rather like some politicians, media people and those too ready with their reckons……. They were using the case of the fallen woman for their own purposes in order to bring Christ down.

    Instead he drew in the dust with his finger, no doubt thinking about what was happening in all its entirety and saw what was really going on. Then after consideration, he straightened up and spoke.

    In the same way, I believe that all those people using the Kiri Allen case to attack and bring down the government should just stop.

    Think. Consider. Are they without fault personally in this matter of using one person's sorry circumstance to attack the Labour government, and doing so for honourable motives?

    • Macro 14.1
      24 July 2023 at 1:07 pm

      Well said Mac. This is exactly analogous to the Biblical reference.

      Interestingly, again the interaction of Jesus with women in every reported instance is one of respect, compassion, and understanding. There are no recorded instances where Jesus disgraces, belittles, reproaches, or stereotypes a woman. Rather his attitudes toward women, show repeatedly how he liberated and affirmed women.

    • Patricia Bremner 14.2
      24 July 2023 at 1:18 pm

      Thank you Mac1.

    • ianmac 14.3
      24 July 2023 at 3:48 pm

      Yeah Mac 1. Well said.

    • Anker 14.4
      24 July 2023 at 3:56 pm

      I think we can all feel compassion for Kiri and recognise this must be extremely painful for her.

  15. Sanctuary 15
    24 July 2023 at 12:18 pm

    I guess if there is a silver lining it is that a government minister can be subject to a normal arrest by a bog standard cop. Not too many countries left where that's the case.

      • In Vino 15.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 9:19 pm

        Yes, but that was back in the day when there actually were checkpoints.

        You realise that after making loud noise about lowering the alcohol blood limits, the Key-English govt cut police funding to the point where police felt constrained to cut all checkpoints completely?

        My reading of research was that lowering limits had no effect at all, but increasing the number of checkpoints really did reduce drunk-driving offences. TV ads no use at all.

        So NZ became the drink-drivers' paradise: no checkpoints!

        Labour has started to correct that trend, and not before time.

        • weka 15.1.1.1
          24 July 2023 at 10:14 pm

          I didn't know that. Small town life I guess.

        • Belladonna 15.1.1.2
          24 July 2023 at 10:31 pm

          Plenty of mobile checkpoints in Auckland – both before and after 2017….

          Just a couple of months ago I was breath-tested on a Sunday morning about 9am. I suppose anyone they catch at such an …. unlikely …. time would be a serious alcoholic….

        • Michael P 15.1.1.3
          25 July 2023 at 2:59 am

          "Yes, but that was back in the day when there actually were checkpoints."

          There still are, I've been through 3 just in the last month.

          • Tony Veitch 15.1.1.3.1
            25 July 2023 at 5:40 am

            There still are, I've been through 3 just in the last month.

            Maybe, just maybe because this Labour government has increased funding, and police numbers?

            • In Vino 15.1.1.3.1.1
              25 July 2023 at 10:19 am

              Precisely, Tony Veitch. The period when there were no checkpoints was leading up to the 2017 election. That is when publicity about the bad accident rates came out. (The limit was lowered back in 2015.)

              I too saw the odd checkpoint after the election, so Labour did enable resumption, but only recently have I seen increasing numbers.

              (As seems usual, it took a long time for Labour to really do something.. I suspect that further bad stats may have recently come out?)

              I suspect that cheapskate NZ must now have near-worst record in the world for combatting drunk driving. Lowering the limit did no good at all, and under the old limit Kiri would not have failed the test.

              • Anne …
                25 July 2023 at 10:34 am

                Came across a checkpoint on Lake Rd, Devonport Sat. night. Now there may have been others from time to time, but that's the first one I have seen in years. Was pleased to see it again.

                • In Vino …
                  25 July 2023 at 6:35 pm

                  Yes Anne – over the past week I have been tested twice just outside my own gate, but in the morning. I even told one of them it was good to see them testing again.

                  This constant testing presence on the roads seems to be the only thing that works. TV ads are worthless.

    • UncookedSelachimorpha 15.2
      24 July 2023 at 1:22 pm

      Yes – this is incredibly important, and long may it continue.

  16. Anne 16
    24 July 2023 at 1:42 pm

    Today10:46 AM Rachel Moore

    Statement from National Party leader Chris Luxon

    “It was the right thing for Kiri Allan to resign. It was quite untenable for her to continue as Justice Minister.

    “Clearly this situation raises questions about the judgement of Prime Minister Chris Hipkins. (My bold)

    "We wish Ms Allan well and hope she is getting the support and help she needs.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300934071/live-justice-minister-kiri-allan-charged-after-car-crash-resigns-as-minister

    Thank-you Chris Luxon for confirming my suspicion you are in reality a louse.

    Did Labour criticise National for not immediately sending Todd Muller home when he was having mental health issues? Not that I recall. Indeed Labour made a point of NOT using the Muller incident for political purposes.

    • weka 16.1
      24 July 2023 at 1:59 pm

      tbf, Muller wasn't a Minister of Justice being charged with drink driving and resisting arrest. And Luxon wasn't the PM who appointed the Minister of Justice and kept her on despite issues with her behaviour and coping with mental health issues in the recent past.

      hard to know what Labour would do if the situation were exactly reversed.

      • Kat 16.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 3:55 pm

        We do know what Labour would do if the situation was reversed, Jacinda set the standard for kindness and although Chippy is not afraid to answer back he is not into cheap shots.

      • Anne 16.1.2
        24 July 2023 at 5:47 pm

        "And Luxon wasn't the PM who appointed the Minister of Justice..."

        Which is why I said "Did Labour criticise National…"

        Being a little pedantic there weka. Of course the two incidents are not identical. But the difference in their responses are worth noting. One party remained silent and did try to use a sad, personal situation to their political advantage. The other party did. And imho there-in lies the real difference between the two.

        • Anne 16.1.2.1
          24 July 2023 at 6:30 pm

          Ooops. A typo:

          “One party remained silent and did NOT did try to use a sad, personal situation to their political advantage.”

    • Jester 16.2
      24 July 2023 at 11:06 pm

      I don't understand why you consider Luxon a louse due to his statement. Even Kiri herself said her position was untenable.

      "Allan said she was returning home to the East Coast on Monday morning, and was considering her future in politics. She had resigned all her ministerial roles, saying: “I accept that my position as a minister is untenable.”

      PM: Kiri Allan's actions 'inexcusable' after car crash and failed breath test | Stuff.co.nz

      I thought comments I've heard today from Luxon, Swarbrick, Van Velden and even Seymour have been pretty sympathetic to her. Worse comment IMO was a Labour MP that said "shit happens"! (Damien O'Connor? I could be wrong).

      You should remember, when Muller had MH issues he went for a cup of tea and a lie down, he didn't drink alcohol in excess of the driving limit and then crash in to a parked vehicle and then refuse to accompany police.

      Someone should spare a thought for the owner of the parked vehicle too. Looked like a work vehicle so they have probably been unable to work today, and now have the hassles of insurance process.

    • newsense 16.3
      25 July 2023 at 2:40 am

      Someone needs to press him on how it questions Chris Hipkin’s judgement.

      And see who in the press gallery is a lap dog for the Nats.

      This is not someone who has worked for or run a mercenary outfit. This is not someone who has sold cigarettes which cause cancer to addicts while working for companies who have arms that work on getting children addicted. This is not someone who has made a career of minimising, misrepresenting and avoiding climate change responsibility. This is not someone who has hidden donations, potentially from an agent of a sovereign state. This is not someone who has spread false information about a pandemic. This is not someone who has sexually harassed someone in a vulnerable position. This is not someone who beat a younger child with a blunt wooden object. This is not someone who attempted to blackmail a ex using photos. This is not someone who has illegally spied on someone in a workplace dispute. This is not someone who can issue and then withdraw a policy in order to be all things to all people. This is not someone whose religion became less important to them than their politics.

      This was someone going through a relationship break up.

      This was not a question of judgment. This is a capable person going through a difficult time very publicly, and now has crossed a line.

      Most people will go through at least one devastating break up and many may drive a little over the limit or carelessly.

      Few will make the moral choices made by various National party representatives.

  17. Reality 17
    24 July 2023 at 1:43 pm

    I have long thought that Labour needs to speak up more forcefully in response to National/Act and the Jenna Lynch and Jessica M-M sorts with their vicious nastiness when someone has let themselves down by their behaviour. Luxon maintains he is Christian for goodness sake but can't help himself being very un-Christian.

    When National was having numerous dramas in recent years I well recall Jacinda always was very careful and avoided nastiness in her responses. Dignity personified.

    Nats are often cold and calculating and display little kindness towards people having a difficult time. There should have been nothing to stop Luxon showing some basic support to Jacinda when she was being ripped apart online. I would have respected him if he had.

  18. Corey 18
    24 July 2023 at 1:53 pm

    Kiri has gone through a lot in the last three or four years since she was diagnosed with then terminal cancer.

    My heart went out to her then, and I still think after such a traumatic experience, with a very young and new family on top of it all, rushing back to work so quickly and taking on multiple massive, gargantuan portfolios, throw in a relationship breakdown and it was a recipe for disaster for anyones mental health.

    As someone whose had a mental breakdown, I recognised behaviour both online and in public reminiscent of my own.

    It sucks that this has happened, she could have been a great advocate for mental health in parliament but … Alas

    My sympathy doesn't extend to her actions as a minister of justice driving carelessly over the limit and and a minister of justice being belligerent to police.

    Few will have sympathy for those actions, as far too many people die on our roads and a minister in Wellington can easily find a ride.

    I think she should resign from parliament altogether and work on herself for her family and her kid.

    Forget politics, it's a nasty business, go be with your family and people you love.

    Arden and so far Hipkins have been really silly in giving ministers who have giant portfolios, more giant portfolios when these events happen, which puts extreme pressure on ministers.

    The portfolio should go to someone outside cabinet like Duncan Webb, not be given to another cabinet minister.

  19. BAW 19
    24 July 2023 at 2:44 pm

    Nat voter.

    Her case stands send a clear message to us all. Look after your mental health or else.

    • LawfulN 19.1
      24 July 2023 at 3:10 pm

      No. The message is that poor mental health must be disqualifying for certain occupations, including being a cabinet minister.

      • Charlotte Rust 19.1.1
        24 July 2023 at 5:53 pm

        She doesn’t have poor mental health, she’s just having some issues that are affecting her mental health. It happens to many of us after big life stresses and situations. She probably should’ve taken more time when issues first started arising. I think the crux for me is her employer ie Hipkins and fellow workmates perhaps didn’t encourage some sort of mental health assessment. Most people try shrug off their issues and say they are ok to work but she clearly wasn’t. Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff. Labour seem to be stumbling head first into all these problems when they should’ve been nipped in the bud so to speak. Now she’s subject to being called ‘sick in the head’ by the indelicate liberal Stephen Franks on the panel and no one in the media seeming to want to address the complexity of the matter. I don’t recall Todd Muller being called ‘sick in the head’ by anybody.

        • Anne 19.1.1.1
          24 July 2023 at 6:27 pm

          " I don’t recall Todd Muller being called ‘sick in the head’ by anybody."

          That's because he's a man Charlotte Rust which I know you are only too well aware 🙂 . Thought I'd spell it out for the thick-heads who are weighing in on this post. I may be wrong but I suspect LawfulN is a man.

          • In Vino 19.1.1.1.1
            24 July 2023 at 9:28 pm

            Yes, and I am just the one who will volunteer to test LawfulN's own mental health. He seems to have a tendency to making dictatorial statements, does he not?

          • Roy Cartland 19.1.1.1.2
            24 July 2023 at 11:25 pm

            Quite right. Baldie white rich guy = brave and strong!

            Black young lesbo = crucify now!

            Sheesh, this country [head in hands]

            • Anne 19.1.1.1.2.1
              25 July 2023 at 10:29 am

              How many times have we been told that this institution or that entity has rated NZ as the least corrupt country in the world.

              It is time that myth was debunked once and for all. We haven't been anywhere near clean since the 1970s when Muldoon reigned supreme. I hope one day the truth about those years and the decades which followed will emerge but it may not be in my lifetime.

  20. Mike the Lefty 20
    24 July 2023 at 4:34 pm

    It seems that Ms Allan might have rushed herself coming back to work and perhaps needed a bit more time to work on her personal issues.

    Unfortunately it makes little difference now, the damage is done.

    National and ACT will seize on this as another example of the Labour government falling to pieces before our eyes, and it is hard to find a counter argument.

    Political pundits are now saying that this was the last straw, Labour is now history and it is not so much if National/ACT win but by how much?

    It just seems to me that this wouldn't have happened under Jacinda's leadership.

  21. Craig H 21
    24 July 2023 at 4:46 pm

    Ministerial portfolios reallocated.

    • Justice – Ginny Andersen
    • Regional Development – Kieran McAnulty
    • Cyclone Recovery lead coordinator for Tairawhiti – Grant Robertson
    • Revenue – Barbara Edmonds (this was on request of David Parker to allow him to focus more on Transport)
    • Associate Finance – Barbara Edmonds
    • Associate Transport – Damien O'Connor
    • Associate Health reallocated to other Health ministers
  22. adam 22
    24 July 2023 at 8:36 pm

    Just one more example of why the two major parties are a joke.

    We have been here with national

    Now we are here with labour.

    Come on it's past time to vote for parties who want to the best for the country, which neither national or labour are going to provide.

    • weka 22.1
      25 July 2023 at 10:49 am

      potential for the Greens and TPM to make a big difference if voters get behind them.

  23. Mac1 23
    25 July 2023 at 10:57 am

    In The Press today, the front page sub-heading reads – "after a late-night car crash".

    Who believes that 9 pm is 'late-night'?

    Googled, night is given as beginning at 9 pm and evening is between 7-9 pm. Late evening would be a fair description.

    So, why does the sub-heading state "late-night'? It's wrong; so, is there an attempt to smear with the connotation of a "late-night out"?

    Andrea Vance's article then begins with the first paragraph attacking Hipkins for evading 'crucial questions' including "whether she left the scene of the accident."

    There is another crucial question. What does the law say about a driver's conduct after an accident? Andrea Vance doesn't say. Mischievous journalism, in my opinion, because she makes an allegation that does not fit the known facts. In fact, giving the obligations that a driver has following an accident would have destroyed her inference that this driver did wrong by leaving the scene.

    I'm not a lawyer so I'll give this reference to a Community Law site which outlines these issues.

    https://communitylaw.org.nz/community-law-manual/chapter-32-driving-and-traffic-law/accidents-driver-responsibilities/

    Something all drivers should know.

    • SPC 23.1
      25 July 2023 at 9:37 pm

      Vance appears to have been fact free, people said she was in her car when people left their homes and talked to her and then the police arrived.

  24. Darien Fenton 24
    25 July 2023 at 12:28 pm

    What a stupid and unnecessarily provocative headline. I have no words.

  25. Ffloyd 25
    26 July 2023 at 1:23 pm

    Vance apparently cut her journalistic teeth on the UK Tabloids. Hence her inability to just report things as they are without embellishing her jottings with a little bit of made up sensationalism. Whether it be the truth or not the truth. Either way she’s just a feeder of fanning flames. And very boring with it. I think she has just written a book. Might be looking for sales. I am pretty sure that she said in an article that she was pleased to go into msm because it had more empathy in its reporting. Then again I might have just dreamed that bit.

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.