Daily review 28/09/2021

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, September 28th, 2021 - 24 comments
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24 comments on “Daily review 28/09/2021 ”

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  1. Patricia Bremner 1
    28 September 2021 at 5:50 pm

    What does Brian Tamaki want? Is he an antivaxer?

  2. bwaghorn 2
    28 September 2021 at 7:15 pm

    Covid in taurangas waste water !!

  3. Chris 3
    28 September 2021 at 9:26 pm

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126508318/couple-stranded-in-queensland-due-to-lack-of-miq-spots-may-face-14k-pension-bill

    I think MSD would be wrong to say lockdowns weren't unforeseen, therefore someone receiving NZS must pay the whole 26 weeks of payments back if they remain overseas for more than 30 weeks. I hope anyone facing such a decision doesn't take it lying down and uses the review and appeal process to take them on.

    • Gezza 3.1
      28 September 2021 at 9:52 pm

      MSD centralised services general manager Jason Dwen said no exemptions were available for people in the Wallaces’ situation.

      “Closure of the travel bubble with Australia, other flight limitations due to Covid and difficulty securing a spot in MIQ, were all reasonably foreseeable before departure for anyone who left New Zealand within the past 30 weeks,” he said.

      “There are no legislative provisions under which New Zealand Super and Veteran Pension clients who left New Zealand, and are now stuck in Australia solely due to closure of the travel bubble, could be paid any financial assistance by MSD.”

      MSD could consider each case though as there may be other unforeseeable reasons a person may not be able to fly to New Zealand. For example, “there may have been a serious medical event that prevented their return”, he said.

      This looks like ideal Question in The House to Ministers stuff, plus an immediate letter to their MP.

      • Chris 3.1.1
        28 September 2021 at 10:27 pm

        Yes it would be.

        “There are no legislative provisions under which New Zealand Super and Veteran Pension clients who left New Zealand, and are now stuck in Australia solely due to closure of the travel bubble, could be paid any financial assistance by MSD.”

        And here's the section MSD's talking about:

        “22 First 26 weeks of certain temporary absences

        New Zealand superannuation that would otherwise be payable to a person (other than a person who is receiving New Zealand superannuation overseas under section 26) is payable in respect of the first 26 weeks of any absence from New Zealand if—

        (a) the person’s absence does not exceed 30 weeks; or

        (b) the person’s absence exceeds 30 weeks and the chief executive is satisfied that the absence beyond 30 weeks is due to circumstances beyond that person’s control that he or she could not reasonably have foreseen before departure.”

        So someone goes to Australia via the travel bubble. The government says "yes, we're opening it up because we believe it's safe". Then the bubble closes, and NZS is clawed back for the whole of the 26 weeks, which the Act can require, but the exemption in s 26(b) doesn't apply because the closure of the bubble, while beyond the person's control, ought to have been foreseen. That's what MSD is saying.

        While of course it's a possibility the bubble could close, to say a person travelling ought to have foreseen that occurring is more than a bit of a stretch. For something to be foreseen there needs to be much more of a chance, in fact a bloody good chance that thing will happen.

        The belief it would not happen comes from the fact of the bubble itself. The government is saying "yes, while we cannot guarantee the need to close the bubble will arise, we're pretty confident it's safe enough for people to travel, so we're going to have a bubble".

        So for MSD's Jason Dwen to say there are no legislative provisions to enable people to retain the first 26 weeks of NZS because the the bubble's closed, well, he's just wrong.

        • Gezza 3.1.1.1
          29 September 2021 at 1:26 am

          Ministers need to ask themselves, & their officials:

          1. Is this fair?
            1. If I/you were in the exact same circumstances where you were desperately needed by a family member – a child – in Australia, & and you were retired, relying on your government super – or any other payment – to meet your costs & living expenses, would you have gone?

          If the answer to the 2nd question is “No”, that Minister or official needs to be censured for their inhumanity – even if childless themselves.

          And the final questions to the officials should be: How are you going to fix this, & how are you going to make sure this doesn’t happen again?

          Imo.

          • Gezza 3.1.1.1.1
            29 September 2021 at 1:30 am

            Grr. 😠

            Paras were numbered 1. & 2. and were hard to tbe left margin when I hit “Submit Comment”.

            Must figure out a way to avoid this post submission auto-editing.

          • RedLogix 3.1.1.1.2
            29 September 2021 at 2:37 am

            MSD are pretty much above the law – I know for a fact that they have and continue to defy High Court orders against them by the simple ruse of taking years to reply to letters or just ignoring instructions. Or claiming that some other 'review process' is underway and they will re-consider your matter afterward – which never arrives.

            Interesting crowd.

      • Pete 3.1.2
        28 September 2021 at 10:38 pm

        30 weeks back from now is early March. So closure of the travel bubble with Australia was reasonably foreseeable back then? Other flight limitations and difficulty securing a spot in MIQ were all reasonably foreseeable then?

        From the official Covid site:

        "Trans-Tasman bubble to start 19 April

        06 April 2021

        New Zealand’s successful management of COVID means quarantine-free travel between New Zealand and Australia will start on Monday 19 April."

        With that logic and experience will there a time in the next five years for which the expression "reasonably foreseeable" couldn't be used?

        • Gristle 3.1.2.1
          29 September 2021 at 5:21 am

          I hate to burst your bubble, but the exact reason I didn't travel to Australia when the bubble was open was that I foresaw that the travel options could close due to the presence of covid 19 infections. So was it reasonably foreseeable? Yes.

          • Chris 3.1.2.1.1
            29 September 2021 at 8:51 am

            Bullshit. You were extra cautious, not willing to take the chance and as it turned out the bubble closed. That's not 'reasonable foreseeability'. You should've bought a lotto ticket.

          • Jimmy 3.1.2.1.2
            29 September 2021 at 9:11 am

            My parents decided not to travel to Sydney as they thought the bubble could close at any time and they may get stuck there. Mind you that was back in 2001, so I guess using your logic they foresaw it too.

        • Chris 3.1.2.2
          29 September 2021 at 11:18 am

          I hope like anything that people in a situation where MSD's saying "it's your fault you owe us $14k because you should've foreseen the bubble would close" appeal those decisions. I'd love to see what MSD would tell the Social Security Appeal Authority when asked whether it's reasonable for people to act upon what the government tells them:

          "New Zealand’s successful management of COVID means quarantine-free travel between New Zealand and Australia will start on Monday 19 April."

          Classic.

          • Chris 3.1.2.2.1
            29 September 2021 at 11:24 am

            I think MSD's position would be much stronger if they said "it's your fault you owe us $14k because you should've foreseen we'd do everything we could to fuck you over once you left, you worthless piece of shit." That would be very difficult to appeal, in my view.

  4. DS 4
    28 September 2021 at 9:57 pm

    The key to any reopening plan: "how many deaths are you willing to put up with?" Since we don't know how many people endemic covid kills in a vaccinated population, all we can do is wait for the Northern Hemisphere Winter.

  5. Incognito 5
    28 September 2021 at 10:07 pm

    About National’s Covid-19 policy announcement tomorrow. The premise might be that Covid-19 is this Government’s strongest and weakest point. The ‘policy’ will try pivot this instead of trying to provide genuine solutions. In other words, it will be more political than practical and definitely populist with an eye on the polls, i.e. a National variant of Plan B.

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