Donald Trump’s unusual diplomatic behaviour

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1. dukeofurl 1

   11 June 2018 at 11:07 am

   Highlight of the Summit was all the pictures of Trudeau , who is 6ft 2in towering over Trump who claims he is 6ft 3 in.
   No wonder he couldnt wait to get to Singapore and meet Kin Joung Un who may be only 5ft 7in ( in special shoes)
2. One Anonymous Bloke 2

   11 June 2018 at 11:14 am

   Some context.

   Average tariff rates charged by G-7 nations:
   USA: 1.6%
   EU: 1.6%
   UK: 1.6%
   Italy: 1.6%
   Germany: 1.6%
   France: 1.6%
   Japan: 1.4%
   Canada: 0.8%

   h/t Justin Wolters via Russell Brown.
   • bwaghorn 2.1

     11 June 2018 at 12:44 pm

     Is Trump right about the 270% tariff on dairy though?
     • Barfly 2.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 1:00 pm

       https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwin7Pzss8rbAhWBW5QKHQQGC7QQFggpMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.realagriculture.com%2F2018%2F02%2Fu-s-dairy-subsidies-equal-73-percent-of-producer-returns-says-new-report%2F&usg=AOvVaw283iMOcbTc2A-kLOBy-C82

       “The report follows similar analysis conducted by Grey, Clark, Shih and Associates in 1990, 1998, 2003, 2005 and 2010. In 2010, the firm found U.S. government support equaled 62 percent of American dairy farmer returns, totalling nearly $20 billion.”

       There is no doubt tariffs but there is also enormous subsidies to USA dairy farmers
       • dukeofurl 2.1.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 1:53 pm

         Canada has supply restrictions and import quotas means the high prices are paid directly by the consumers, so small dairy farms by NZ standards give a comfortable living.

         US has an issue with Europe and Canada over GST/VAT.
         For an importer it acts like a sales tax on imports, while local suppliers can claim their GST back on the supply chain.
         Plus GST on exports gets rebated.

         GST in Europe/Canada can act as rebates on exports and a tariff on imports.
         When you have GST rates in Europe up around 20% it can seem a big
         problem
     • J.Albers 2.1.2

       12 June 2018 at 10:38 am

       Yes, Canada does have the tariff on dairy imports, yet the US exports 10% of Canada’s dairy consumption.

       The US RESTRICTS dairy imports to just 3% of domestic consumption. Go figure!
   • dukeofurl 2.2

     11 June 2018 at 2:46 pm

     Misleading.

     US imports into Europe have to pay GST of around 20% at the border. No such requirement at US border and their sales taxes are quite low

     GST for exporters acts as a rebate and for importers who dont have the supply chain of local producers it acts like a tariff.

     The GST/VAT problem is something Trump has homed in on.
   • Wayne 2.3

     11 June 2018 at 5:42 pm

     OAB,

     I don’t believe these statistics on average tariffs, especially for Canada. The reason why Canada was so difficult over CPTPP was because they have high tariffs, especially in agriculture.
     • One Anonymous Bloke 2.3.1

       11 June 2018 at 7:42 pm

       The World Bank may have it wrong, I guess: the Financial TImes tells it differently, with Canada at 3.1% and the US at 2.4%, citing the WTO.

       The FT still paints Trump’s blather as a distortion of reality that betrayed a lack of understanding.
3. Carolyn_Nth 3

   11 June 2018 at 11:28 am

   The crux of the dispute is that Canada has a regulated dairy industry to stop over production, and to maintain a high quality product. The US is producing milk and milk products more cheaply, but they have over produced so are looking for external markets to dump their products.

   It tends to make Canadian ilk products more expensive for Canadians, and, to protect against cheaper US milk creating an over-supply and damaging Canadian dairy production, they have high tariffs.

   The Boston Globe on this.

   Canadian dairy farmers have been struggling to contain a deepening crisis that is threatening the long-term survival of the carefully calibrated supply-management regime. That balance has been upended by the surge of milk-protein imports, a glut of skim milk and underinvestment in dairy processing. Canada is producing too much milk, but not enough butter, and that is putting downward pressure on overall farm incomes. U.S. farmers, meanwhile, are suffering from overproduction and falling global milk prices. The United States enjoys a large dairy trade surplus with Canada.

   The Guardian reports:

   In 2016, Canada imported dairy products from the US worth five times more than the small amount it exported there. “I would call that a pretty good deal,” she told the House of Commons.

   Canadian farmers point out that despite the tariffs that protect them, imports make up 10% of the country’s dairy consumption. By contrast, the US restricts dairy imports to 3% of domestic consumption. “That just screams hypocrisy to me,” Muirhead said. “I don’t understand how they can get away with these positions.”

   Interesting that Trump accuses Trudeau of being “weak”. He seems to prefer other authoritarian leaders like Putin and Kim Jong-un.
   • JessNZ 3.1

     11 June 2018 at 12:49 pm

     Interesting that protectionism for the dairy industry is destabilising Western trade… NZ might want to learn some lessons! Of course, for most leaders, this would be unusual behaviour, but it’s pretty typical for Trump.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 1:14 pm

       Interesting that protectionism for the dairy industry is destabilising Western trade…

       Is it?

       Or is it the over-investment and over-production of dairy in the US and EU?

       The US seems to be demanding that they be able to dump their over-production into Canada.

       As I’ve said before: All countries can produce their own food and thus trade in food must eventually cease.

       Produced goods like electronics may take longer but has the same result. Every country is quite capable of producing them from their own resources and at the same efficiency.

       To me it’s much better to work on that principle and develop the local economy than it is to think that trade will always be there to take the over-production.
       • JessNZ 3.1.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 1:50 pm

         Yes, that’s at least one of the lessons NZ ought to be taking from this instead of intensifying dairy for export.

         Overinvestment and overproduction is another form of protectionism. The US govt forces cheese into the food stamp programmes and into school lunches.
   • D'Esterre 3.2

     11 June 2018 at 7:23 pm

     Carolyn_Nth: “authoritarian leaders like Putin…”

     Putin is a liberal, not an authoritarian. Although you’d not find that out reading the Guardian or the Boston Globe.

     Putin’s default liberalism is at the heart of some of the opposition to him in Russia: such people would prefer that he were more of a nationalist.

     I recommend to you Russian language news sites: you’ll get a much more nuanced view of what’s going on in Russia.
     • Macro 3.2.1

       11 June 2018 at 8:04 pm

       Yes he is very liberal with handing out death to those who oppose him or openly criticise him. Some might want to call that authoritarian however.
       • D'Esterre 3.2.1.1

         11 June 2018 at 10:08 pm

         Macro: ” with handing out death to those who oppose him or openly criticise him.”

         Oh gawd, not that hoary old chestnut again! I’ve read those lists several times, seen analysis of them, even. You know, who died when and where. None of that constitutes evidence of Putin having ordered deaths. I note how many of them died in the 1990s: the Chechen wars, more likely. Or the mafia.

         Do you speak or read Russian? I’m guessing not; because if you did, you’d know just how much opposition opinion flourishes in Russia, and manages to get itself onto the politics and current affairs shows. There aren’t any dissidents: democracies don’t have them. People such as the idiot Babchenko are self-described dissidents, struggling for relevance and to be noticed. You know why Babchenko fled to the Ukraine, don’t you? The man’s a plonker.
         • Macro 3.2.1.1.1

           12 June 2018 at 12:06 pm

           🙄
     • solkta 3.2.2

       11 June 2018 at 8:10 pm

       Yes that’s right, and Richard Pebble is a socialist
       • Tamati Tautuhi 3.2.2.1

         11 June 2018 at 8:34 pm

         Richard Prebble was Roger Douglas’s best mate he would have sold his grandmother for sixpence. He was a pure neoliberalist.
         • solkta 3.2.2.1.1

           11 June 2018 at 9:19 pm

           Yes, that’s right, Putin is a fascist.
           • D'Esterre 3.2.2.1.1.1

             11 June 2018 at 10:13 pm

             solkta: “Richard Pebble is a socialist”

             He certainly was, back in the day. I remember it well. But probably before you were born.

             “Putin is a fascist.”

             And your evidence for this is……?
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               12 June 2018 at 12:18 pm

               …abundant, well documented and public, no matter how much the US does it too.
             • solkta …

               12 June 2018 at 12:21 pm

               What evidence do you have that he is a liberal? All you’ve said is: “Russian language news sites”
4. SPC 4

   11 June 2018 at 11:51 am

   This is normal for Trump, he bullies juniors (sub-contractors out of full pay for the work) and negotiates with outside parties (banks/competitors).

   Clearly he sees Xi and Putin as equals and NATO partners as his juniors.

   Until the EU sends a message by buying Gulf oil in euros this will not change.
5. Anne 5

   11 June 2018 at 12:01 pm

   So, what’s changed.

   As this photo suggests, The Chump should be ignored by everybody. Leave him to shout and holler like the demented kid he is, and just come down hard on him when he’s naughty. Y,know like… telling lies about tarrifs and things and slapping them willy-nilly on his mates.
6. Gosman 6

   11 June 2018 at 12:09 pm

   Canada should call his bluff then and drop all Dairy tariffs and call on the US to do the same.
   • Barfly 6.1

     11 June 2018 at 1:03 pm

     No they should call for subsidies to both be removed
     • Gosman 6.1.1

       11 June 2018 at 1:50 pm

       Why? If a nation wants to waste money subsidising the consumers of your country why would you want them to stop doing so?
   • One Anonymous Bloke 6.2

     11 June 2018 at 1:49 pm

     Put sanctions on his business interests and real estate.
7. Heather Tanguay 7

   11 June 2018 at 12:11 pm

   Remember the TV show called Southpark, the famous song was ‘Blame it on Canada’ this is just another chorus of the same song
   • JessNZ 7.1

     11 June 2018 at 1:12 pm

     Blame Canada! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA
8. Sanctuary 8

   11 June 2018 at 12:16 pm

   Invade the USA and burn down the White House again I say!
   • dukeofurl 8.1

     11 June 2018 at 1:55 pm

     US burned Toronto first before the British attacked Washington a year later
   • Adrian 8.2

     11 June 2018 at 3:10 pm

     When Trump accused Canada of burning the White House down I bet Trudeau was biting his lip wanting to say “A pity you wer’nt fucking in it!.
     • dukeofurl 8.2.1

       11 June 2018 at 3:32 pm

       While there certainly was battles along the common border that would have involved canadians the landing of British troops in Cheseapeake Bay area and the occupation of Washington DC wouldnt have involved any canadians

       The interesting thing about 1812 war is that it originated by a trade blockade by the British against Napoleonic Europe along with other items like US coveting territory in Canada ( the name for the St Lawrence valley area at the time) and the maritime provinces
9. JessNZ 9

   11 June 2018 at 12:49 pm

   Interesting that protectionism for the dairy industry is destabilising Western trade… NZ might want to learn some lessons! Of course, for most leaders, this would be unusual behaviour, but it’s pretty typical for Trump.
10. Macro 10

    11 June 2018 at 7:51 pm

    https://talk.whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/t/humor-memes-funny-internet-stuff-etc/441/323
11. Macro 11

    11 June 2018 at 7:53 pm

    https://talk.whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday.com/t/humor-memes-funny-internet-stuff-etc/441/318
12. North 12

    11 June 2018 at 8:29 pm

    Trump: “America won’t be pushed around !”

    Trudeau: “Canada won’t be pushed around !”

    Trump: “Ooh he hit me !”

    Classic bully shit. Trump is scum !
    • Richard McGrath 12.1

      14 June 2018 at 8:44 am

      “Fuck Trump!” (waves clenched fists in the air)

      Standing ovation
13. Tamati Tautuhi 13

    11 June 2018 at 8:35 pm

    Richard Prebble was Roger Douglas’s best mate he would have sold his grandmother for sixpence. He was a pure neoliberalist.
14. D'Esterre 14

    11 June 2018 at 10:27 pm

    Yay for Trump! Sticking it to the odious Trudeau and the equally odious president diacritic of France, the one who’s married to his mother. And schoolmarm May. And “I-never-met-a-migrant-I-didn’t-like” Merkel. Makes my heart sing….
    I wonder whether this is his strategy: if Congress and the bureaucracy won’t let him implement his plans, he’ll follow theirs and run them into the ground. It’s beginning to look as if that’s his game.
    The Kremlin’s response to Trump’s urging that Russia be readmitted to the G8 could be glossed as “meh”. There’s no advantage to reforming the G8; the trust on Russia’s part is gone and cannot be recovered, except by huge efforts that the Americans and Euros are unwilling to make. Italy actually has been hurting sufficiently in the pocket to buck the consensus on the subject, but the rest have yet to suffer enough to change their minds. Though it looks like that suffering may be coming for all of them.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 14.1

      12 June 2018 at 1:18 pm

      How much “suffering” do you suppose a country with an economy smaller than Australia’s can inflict?

      I don’t think Putin’s stupid enough to expose himself to that much more humiliation.
15. Richard McGrath 15

    14 June 2018 at 8:41 am

    The photo of G7 leaders looks to me like Fraulein Merkel trying to bully Trump, with Abe siding with The Donald. A later photograph suggested a fairly good-natured conversation was taking place.

    And a G6 vs Trump split seems unlikely to me. While FM and The Eyebrow probably have issues with DJT, Italy and Japan seem to me more likely to side with him against the European establishment.

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