Fact checkin’ round 2
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7:27 pm, November 3rd, 2008 - 44 comments
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It’s really good to see Clark taking Key to task on his lies this time:
Key: productivity has halved under Labour.
Lie. The same lie he made last time
Key: interest rates have doubled under Labour.
Lie. Which he also said last time, and Clark called him on it this time.
Key is also relying on the OECD ranking as the measure of economic performance, which it clearly isn’t. Compare growth rates, not order. Rankings don’t show the size of the gaps. We, and the countries with similar rankings in the OECD are all closing on those at higher rankings.
Key: National introduced the basis of Working for Families
Lie: The child benefit has been around since the early 1980s, but Working for Families is a Labour policy, which National has vehemently opposed.
The worst aspect of this debate is John Campbell. I actually enjoyed seeing the leaders talk directly to each other but Campbell hadn’t heard his own voice in too long, so he felt he had to interject. He questions are too long and convoluted. OK, now he’s getting better.
Key: record numbers leaving for Australia
Lie. the current level of emigration is well-within the normal cycle
Key: the government wants to limit the water through your showerhead
Lie. That was never government policy
Key: the Government is banning lightbulbs
Lie. the Government is raising the energy efficiency standards on lightbulbs. Most incandescent bulbs can’t reach the new standards but that’s not an argument for not raising the standards. Should we keep energy efficiency standards the same on fridges because old fridge designs can’t match them?
Key: Bill English has charm
Lie.
Key: Peters has distracted and would distract the Government
Lie. The Government is a $60billion organisation employing 250,000 people. The Cabinet is 26 strong. The idea that it is paralysed by a the fact that the media wants to talk about Peters all the time is absurd. Key can’t point to any actual instance of policy work being delayed by minister being busy on Peters.
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The loss of 27 kaimahi at Whakaata Māori and the end of its daily news bulletin is a sad day for Māori media and another step backwards for Te Tiriti o Waitangi justice. ...1 week ago
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Yesterday the Government passed cruel legislation through first reading to establish a new beneficiary sanction regime that will ultimately mean more households cannot afford the basic essentials. ...1 week ago
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Today's passing of the Government's Residential Tenancies Amendment Bill–which allows landlords to end tenancies with no reason–ignores the voice of the people and leaves renters in limbo ahead of the festive season. ...1 week ago
- Release: National Party urged to support modern slavery legislation
Labour is urging the Prime Minister to walk the talk and support legislation combating modern slavery. ...2 weeks ago
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The Speaker of the New Zealand Parliament made an unprecedented decision on the government amendment to the Fast Track Approvals Bill last night. ...2 weeks ago
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- Release: Labour fully supports greyhound racing ban
The Government has done the right thing in moving to ban greyhound racing. ...2 weeks ago
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After years of advocacy, the Green Party is very happy to hear the Government has listened to our collective voices and announced the closure of the greyhound racing industry, by 1 August 2026. ...2 weeks ago
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In response to a new report from ERO, the Government has acknowledged the urgent need for consistency across the curriculum for Relationship and Sexuality Education (RSE) in schools. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt introduces archaic anti-worker legislation
The Green Party is appalled at the Government introducing legislation that will make it easier to penalise workers fighting for better pay and conditions. ...2 weeks ago
- Winston Peters – Kinleith Mill Speech
Thank you for the invitation to speak with you tonight on behalf of the political party I belong to - which is New Zealand First. As we have heard before this evening the Kinleith Mill is proposing to reduce operations by focusing on pulp and discontinuing “lossmaking paper production”. They say that they are currently consulting on the plan to permanently shut ...2 weeks ago - Swarbrick calls on Auckland Mayor to end delay of revival of St James Theatre
Auckland Central MP, Chlöe Swarbrick, has written to Mayor Wayne Brown requesting he stop the unnecessary delays on St James Theatre’s restoration. ...2 weeks ago
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Today, the Green Party of Aotearoa proudly unveils its new Emissions Reduction Plan–He Ara Anamata–a blueprint reimagining our collective future. ...2 weeks ago
- Internationally-trained doctors jump at chance to boost health workforce
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says Health New Zealand will move swiftly to support dozens of internationally-trained doctors already in New Zealand on their journey to employment here, after a tripling of sought-after examination places. “The Medical Council has delivered great news for hardworking overseas doctors who want to contribute ...20 hours ago - PM appoints business leader to APEC Business Advisory Council
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has appointed Sarah Ottrey to the APEC Business Advisory Council (ABAC). “At my first APEC Summit in Lima, I experienced firsthand the role that ABAC plays in guaranteeing political leaders hear the voice of business,” Mr Luxon says. “New Zealand’s ABAC representatives are very well respected and ...3 days ago
- New intelligence oversight appointments
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- New housing developments able to progress more quickly
Improvements in the average time it takes to process survey and title applications means housing developments can progress more quickly, Minister for Land Information Chris Penk says. “The government is resolutely focused on improving the building and construction pipeline,” Mr Penk says. “Applications to issue titles and subdivide land are ...3 days ago
- Actions to speed up air travel delivering results
The Government’s measures to reduce airport wait times, and better transparency around flight disruptions is delivering encouraging early results for passengers ahead of the busy summer period, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Improving the efficiency of air travel is a priority for the Government to give passengers a smoother, more reliable ...3 days ago
- Ending contracted emergency housing in Rotorua
The Government today announced the intended closure of the Apollo Hotel as Contracted Emergency Housing (CEH) in Rotorua, Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka says. This follows a 30 per cent reduction in the number of households in CEH in Rotorua since National came into Government. “Our focus is on ending CEH in the Whakarewarewa area starting ...3 days ago
- Vocational education and training decisions support return to regions
The Government will reshape vocational education and training to return decision making to regions and enable greater industry input into work-based learning Tertiary Education and Skills Minister, Penny Simmonds says. “The redesigned system will better meet the needs of learners, industry, and the economy. It includes re-establishing regional polytechnics that ...3 days ago
- Reducing the environmental impact of synthetic refrigerants
The Government is taking action to better manage synthetic refrigerants and reduce emissions caused by greenhouse gases found in heating and cooling products, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds says. “Regulations will be drafted to support a product stewardship scheme for synthetic refrigerants, Ms. Simmonds says. “Synthetic refrigerants are found in a ...3 days ago
- Ngāruawāhia section of Waikato Expressway back to 4 lanes for Christmas
People travelling on State Highway 1 north of Hamilton will be relieved that remedial works and safety improvements on the Ngāruawāhia section of the Waikato Expressway were finished today, with all lanes now open to traffic, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“I would like to acknowledge the patience of road users ...3 days ago
- Appointments to the ENZ board
Tertiary Education and Skills Minister, Penny Simmonds, has announced a new appointment to the board of Education New Zealand (ENZ). Dr Erik Lithander has been appointed as a new member of the ENZ board for a three-year term until 30 January 2028. “I would like to welcome Dr Erik Lithander to the ...4 days ago
- Government to celebrate Waitangi Day around NZ
The Government will have senior representatives at Waitangi Day events around the country, including at the Waitangi Treaty Grounds, but next year Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has chosen to take part in celebrations elsewhere. “It has always been my intention to celebrate Waitangi Day around the country with different ...4 days ago
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Two more criminal gangs will be subject to the raft of laws passed by the Coalition Government that give Police more powers to disrupt gang activity, and the intimidation they impose in our communities, Police Minister Mark Mitchell says. Following an Order passed by Cabinet, from 3 February 2025 the ...4 days ago
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Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Minister of Education David Seymour today announced legislation changes to strengthen freedom of speech obligations on universities. “Freedom of speech is fundamental to the concept of academic freedom and there is concern that universities seem to be taking a more risk-averse ...4 days ago
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Police Minister, Mark Mitchell, and Internal Affairs Minister, Brooke van Velden, today launched a further Public Safety Network cellular service that alongside last year’s Cellular Roaming roll-out, puts globally-leading cellular communications capability into the hands of our emergency responders. The Public Safety Network’s new Cellular Priority service means Police, Wellington ...4 days ago
- Minister reopens Mangamuka Gorge
State Highway 1 through the Mangamuka Gorge has officially reopened today, providing a critical link for Northlanders and offering much-needed relief ahead of the busy summer period, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“The Mangamuka Gorge is a vital route for Northland, carrying around 1,300 vehicles per day and connecting the Far ...4 days ago
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The Government has welcomed decisions by the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) and Ashburton District Council confirming funding to boost resilience in the Canterbury region, with construction on a second Ashburton Bridge expected to begin in 2026, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Delivering a second Ashburton Bridge to improve resilience and ...4 days ago
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The Government is backing the response into high pathogenic avian influenza (HPAI) in Otago, Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard says. “Cabinet has approved new funding of $20 million to enable MPI to meet unbudgeted ongoing expenses associated with the H7N6 response including rigorous scientific testing of samples at the enhanced PC3 ...4 days ago
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Today the House agreed to Brendan Horsley being appointed Inspector-General of Defence, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “Mr Horsley’s experience will be invaluable in overseeing the establishment of the new office and its support networks. “He is currently Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security, having held that role since June 2020. ...5 days ago
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The Government today released a request for information (RFI) to seeking interest in partnerships to plant trees on Crown-owned land with low farming and conservation value (excluding National Parks) Forestry Minister Todd McClay announced. “Planting trees on Crown-owned land will drive economic growth by creating more forestry jobs in our regions, providing more wood ...5 days ago
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New Zealand is providing Vanuatu assistance following yesterday's devastating earthquake, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. "Vanuatu is a member of our Pacific family and we are supporting it in this time of acute need," Mr Peters says. "Our thoughts are with the people of Vanuatu, and we will be ...5 days ago
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Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp');Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions.The post Newsroom daily quiz, Monday 23 December appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago
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I think John Campbell is doing OK. He’s stopping the debate from dissolving into a shouting match, letting each leader have a say, and asking them some tough questions.
The textpoll is arse as well. TV3 also seems to have dropped the livestream at 7:30 and my TV doesn’t get channel 3. TVNZ ran their whole debate streaming. What’s the point of ultrafast broadband if the private sector can’t bloody well use the medium properly!
Cap: “knowing waiting”. Too bloody right.
Agree the txt poll is very bad. Should not be alllowed in a serious election debate,
And from what I saw Helen was clearly winning and Campbell was doing a good job of cutting through some of the spin.
Campbell has ADD. As soon as they get into a topic, and are about to get past the prepared lines into the substance … he moves on to another topic.
Bloody infuriating.
campbell is bollix – he called john key “mate” – is that appropriate? no straight answers from key as usual – why is he allowed to get away with that?
Key didn’t give any answer of substance on Nanny state coming thru his door.
Clark should have learned by now, if the moderator / interviewer won’t do the job, she has to. For example, tonight Key has said 1) he wasn’t in government in the ’90’s and 2) said “we” introduced WFF under Shipley.
So fire a question straight at Key: “Do you stand by Bill English and the last National government, or do you reject it?”
Get your sound bites and killer lines in, you can’t win on substance in this dumbed-down format.
Well TV3 may not be able to make a live stream work but I can certainly fashion an outside aerial with a coathanger. That’ll be that kiwi ingenuity.
Did Key just say English has “charm”?
keys would say anything!
key keeps saying that record number stat, and no-one calls him on it not being a record if linked to population.
Key: Repeating rehearsed lines and the same stats, yawn. Itll sway the ill informed young voters, sadly.
Clark: Been trying to jump on those lies but Campbell gets in the way. She should have jumped on him when Key pissed up big time talking about a fresh direction when Campbell listed his top 12 on the list who are all the usual suspects.
Listening to my flatmates misogynist and shallow comments… infuriating.
I tried to txt a vote & got a “could not fetch content” reply.
That panel Campbell has got are a bunch of sorry fuckwits, I can hardly stand to watch their fuckwittery.
here come the analysts – bring on the wankers. Its a competition of who can be the most cynical – one woman looks deeply depressed.
Oh, now Campbell says the error messges are wrong. I’d already tried sending my vote again. Gonna be a really acurate poll then
What a waste of an hour.
All it served to do was remind me of why I don’t watch Campbell.
Im glad i stopped watching before the analysts came on. judging by the previous posts. I was already fuming watching the debate
Lol, my flat most vehement National voter (only moderately political, but still) has just told me that he doesn’t like Key because he is rich.
Clark smoked Key. Hands down.
The panel is absolutely dreadful. And what’s the deal with that STUPID stock trading game?
That ipredict stuff is hiliarous – there were like four trades and they’re trying to figure out who won the debate from it. Tragic.
Actually Jenny McManus just nailed Key. Linda Clark also said that it looked as if Key had no hunger for the role of PM and Clark did, wiping the floor with him.
Downside is the promotion of ipredict, along the same line as text polls:-(
I disagree that there is no prescription for dealing with the financial crisis. Labour has a prescription.
The US election shouldn’t be compared to ours. If our leaders did all the showmanship stuff, Kiwis would reject it.
Yeah. Then they all come out and say Key will be PM! wtf?!
Cos I’m surrounded by only Uni students, this obviously isnt a representative or valid inference of the general populous of nat supporters. But I’m going to give it to you anyway.
The Male Uni student Nat supporter: say things like ‘Look at John hes just such a nice guy’ , ‘Helens like a man’, ‘Im sick of Labour’….. Very rarely do I hear any substantial reasons as to why they will vote national.
When I quizzed one flatmate why hes voting national: ‘I dont like Sue Bradford and Sue Kedgley’ That was all I could get out of him.
I might get grilled for this comment, but its gods honest truth when looking at the people who surround me – a bunch of rich white young guys.
The panel was pathetic, and going over the the ‘live market’ for ipredict was a joke. There had been five trades during the debate, basically a flat.
But that quote from Jenni McManus, that was gold.
Can we vote put in a vote to TV3 on how good the panel were?
Watched the debate with two Tory voters, a Labourite and a Greenie. All five of us gave the debate to Clark.
yeah I had to turn it off I’m afraid
i could hear all the whingeing from Keys from the other room and campbell was oozing out of the video all acroos my living room floor like a big heap of slime from chungas revenge
that man had too many cheese sandwhiches before the show started
blerrrrk
Small footnote:
A blogger – fact-checking, in real time.
A TV channel, with four “experts” and half an hour of post-debate airtime – not one fact checked, not one assertion queried. Not a single one.
That’s NZ’s media, in a nutshell.
gobsmacked – You’ve absolutely hit the nail on the head.
hey …the media area a pack of smug self satisfied greassy little noo noo heads who spend most of the time looking in the mirror and the rest of the time vibrating passionateley while they dream about their vision where they have actually learned to read!
hah… and my blog has just been gluggle searched for misdemeanours about the one who was rude to nicole kidman
now thats kid stuff to the max
and the rest are just the same
the clearasil crowd masquerading as grown ups
captcha- caesars morn- yes helen is going to cross the rubicon….you betcha
That panel was the biggest load of gobshite I’ve seen. Some ‘tard closest to JC was wondering why she didn’t get all the answers to the world’s economic crisis, and a 50-frkin’-point plan as to what they were going to do about it. Hate to say it honey, but it ain’t always the economy, and you’re stupid.
fact checking?
hmmmm
wonder if the herald and the dimopost have their frontpages laid out already
hehehehehehe
they are going to wake up with a bad hangover after thisone!
“when looking at the people who surround me – a bunch of rich white young guys.”
Why bring skin colour into it – are you racist or just bitter?
Chris G, I absolutely understand what you are saying. I find that most Nat supporters arent able to present any reasonable rationale for their political preference. I believe that is because of family associations and ideology rather than for anything meaningful that they can put their finger on. It must be hard for many national voters to accept that the policies they support will result in tangible hardship for many people. Its easy to presume that those who are better off are so because they either work harder and are some how more deserving than others. They are too selfish and shallow to consider that their wealth is a direct result of the hard work of the low paid. That is why you find as I do, that rich white guys, all too often engage in personalised criticisms. generally directed at women MP’s.
Certainely neither..Considering I’m in the aforementioned category, no I’m not bitter. And if your suggesting I’m a ‘tall-poppy-cutter-hate-on-rich-people-commy’ well your wrong doubly.
Plus if thats all you could derive from my comment, clearly I made some good points. Maybe you’ve heard similar comments flowing out of some mouths. Cheers pal.
Alexandra,
Great comment, couldn’t agree more. It seems our experiences echo.
I find it a sad indictment on a chunk of our voting populous who seem to be voting because their misogynistic or dont like the way someone looks. Apparently it doesnt stop when they get older either… surf whaleO or kiwiblog for a few mins to find plenty of evidence of that.
This is part of my dismay at the thought of a National led government. It seems like such a step backwards in terms of attitudes, civil rights, and social justice. OTOH I am uplifted by the way so much of the discussion on the left is based on MP’s and candidates politcies and political skills, rather than their gender, sexuality or appearance.
I find it very sad that you can look at that quote and actually get the impression that Chris G is racist, (rather than you know, acknowledging a bias that exists among people similar to himself) and that the people he’s talking about aren’t an example of racial privilege. (which is not the same thing as racism, because racism is the abuse of a racial privilege. Just so nobody goes putting words in my mouth 😉 )
Chris – I also have a number of friends voting for national for bizzare reasons, for example, Clark’s looks, marriage, the fact she has no children etc etc.
I wonder if its generational thing though as I suspect we are of similar ages (both flatting, uni etc).
It does worry me that so many people at university buy into this trash – so much for teaching reasoned thinking – although all my examples are from the commerce department so maybe it makes sense 🙂