John Key: the mumbo-jumbo man

52 comments on “John Key: the mumbo-jumbo man ”

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1. McGrath 1

   26 June 2014 at 1:20 pm

   As a general question, how many Maui dolphins have died as a result of oil & gas exploration?
   • Wonderpup 1.1

     26 June 2014 at 1:38 pm

     Its not how many have, its how many might. And that figure is too high.

     For the minister of tourism to want whale watching tours to be done with the background of oil drilling platforms, and the risk they pose, is astonishing.
     • infused 1.1.1

       26 June 2014 at 2:25 pm

       Better stop driving cars. Someone might die.
       • weka 1.1.1.1

         26 June 2014 at 2:36 pm

         Better stop commenting. You look like a tosser.

         There are something like 60 Maui Dolphins left. On the planet.

         Unless of course you don’t care about species extinction, in which case why not just say so?
       • Pasupial 1.1.1.2

         26 June 2014 at 2:41 pm

         infused

         There are more than 55 people left in the world. One single death of a Maui’s dolphin for whatever reason is a nearly 2% drop in total population; that’s the equivalent of 130 million people dying!

         You may be as terrible at driving as you are at thinking, but I doubt even you could manage that.
   • Martin 1.2

     27 June 2014 at 11:33 pm

     Key is still an ignorant
     regardless of your question.
   • emergency mike 1.3

     28 June 2014 at 2:11 am

     Yeah that’s right McGrath, what would dem scientists know eh? Clearly not as much as you.

     You’ve got to hand it to Key though. Norman offers him science supporting the claim that oil exploration is a threat to Maui’s Dolphin. Key responds by demanding science supporting the claim that oil exploration is a threat to Maui’s Dolphin.

     Still, it was good enough for repeaters like McGrath.
2. Enough is Enough 2

   26 June 2014 at 1:25 pm

   Yet again it is the Greens leading the debate on an issue.
3. Will@Welly 3

   26 June 2014 at 1:27 pm

   I watched this interchange, and quite frankly I was embarrassed. John Key, as usual, was not interested in debating the facts.
   Had this been a boxing contest, it was obvious Russel Norman had John Key on ‘the ropes’ several times, and it was only the lame-duck rulings of the Speaker, David Carter, that saved John Key’s bacon. As much as I detested him as a politician, oh for Lockwood Smith to have been there as Speaker – Key would have run out of the Chamber.
   Key cannot debate on anything other than money – that is all he knows, and how to trade it. And how to sack people just because he can – what a little quisling.
4. Blue 4

   26 June 2014 at 1:35 pm

   If you look up ‘shallow’ in the dictionary, you will find a pic of John Key. I wonder how John Roughan managed to write a whole book about the guy, although I’m sure his fawning and gushing occupied a rather large part of that.
   • lprent 4.1

     26 June 2014 at 2:32 pm

     See my next post. It expressed my viewpoint on John Roughan’s writing. Is the guy ever right?
   • georgecom 4.2

     26 June 2014 at 8:45 pm

     78 sized font?
5. McGrath 5

   26 June 2014 at 1:42 pm

   Actually a number is important. If there has been no deaths since exploration began in the 60’s, then what is the issue?
   • vto 5.1

     26 June 2014 at 1:45 pm

     Yep nah there have never been any maui dolphin deaths caused by human activity – there have only ever been 55 maui dolphins since day dot…
     • marty mars 5.1.1

       26 June 2014 at 5:26 pm

       lol – nice one vto
   • Te Reo Putake 5.2

     26 June 2014 at 1:49 pm

     If it’s that important to you, go and do some research. Any death from human intervention is one too many. Looking forward to reading your findings.
   • weka 5.3

     26 June 2014 at 2:48 pm

     McGrath, the species is in decline. “Nationally Critical”, which is the highest classification we have. This means they are more at risk now than they were in the 60s, so they need more protection of their habitat. With endangered species it’s not just about deaths, it’s about distruption to mating, breeding, feeding etc. I don’t know what affects the Maui’s dolphin, but if the science shows there is an issue, and the govt is being told by independent scientists, then it’s a significant problem is our PM calls that mumbo jumbo.

     The GP press release says that the issues are harmful seismic surveying and the risks of exploratory drilling.

     https://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/national-minister-misleads-parliament-over-mauis
     • weka 5.3.1

       26 June 2014 at 2:52 pm

       “According to Dr Norman, expert scientists say seismic surveys, which are part of petroleum exploration, can harm dolphins’ hearing and may push them into unprotected areas where they are more exposed to fishing nets.”

       http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/oil-drilling-threaten-maui-s-dolphin-say-greens-6005594
     • Tracey 5.3.2

       26 June 2014 at 2:55 pm

       weka

       Many on tge right dont understand how ecosystems work. They are so disconnected from reality they have convinced themselves that they are not part of nature and therefore unaffected by changes in it. Take the bee issue as an example.
       • weka 5.3.2.1

         26 June 2014 at 3:04 pm

         Very true Tracey, it’s like nature is a machine, so if you get the tech right you can just replace one bit with something else.

         The other thing, that they should understand, is risk assessment. Obviously if a species is in slow decline, then the risk is less, so there is a relationship between vulnerability and impact. But once you get to 55 single animals, then any distruption is going to be problematic. Which makes me think that actually they just don’t give a shit.
         • Tracey 5.3.2.1.1

           26 June 2014 at 3:15 pm

           wll, john key probably saw one in hawaii, so he doesnt need that experience again…
         • vto 5.3.2.1.2

           26 June 2014 at 3:16 pm

           weka your point just above about disruption to ecosystems is spot on.

           this is what happens in Africa. It is not the deaths of animals that is causing their decline it the expansion across their habitat by humans that is the greatest cause of declining numbers.

           As per maui here.

           And the right wing fools don’t even bother to think about these things – it is entirely about yelling stupid one-liners.
           • weka 5.3.2.1.2.1

             26 June 2014 at 3:22 pm

             Much of the species decline in NZ is affected by ecosystem disruption. I suppose to be fair though, most of us were raised in an education system that doesn’t teach systems thinking, and it’s hard for some people to grasp what that is about when the mechanistic world view is so engrained and reinforced.

             Africa… modern humans I guess. There’s some interesting theory that native peoples formed important parts of those ecosystems and the ecosystems have suffered by removing those traditional lifestyles. But yeah, population pressure from humans is a huge issue.
   • Draco T Bastard 5.4

     26 June 2014 at 5:18 pm

     Thing is, we don’t know how many deaths were caused because we weren’t counting. And there were probably some as the activity does, as has been scientifically proven, affect the dolphins and other marine mammals.
6. john 6

   26 June 2014 at 1:47 pm

   I’m surprised you even want to bring this issue up after Cunliffes total cock up by being against it in one tv interview, then embarrassingly having to do a 180 degree turn and completely reverse his position within hours.

   Then you have another prospective Labour MP protesting against Labours own position.

   Or the fact that 18 of 23 rigs in the region that have been allowed in the region went in under a Labour Government.

   It seems nobody has a clue on what’s going on.

   Reminders of the Greens “Hey Clint – what’s our policy on this”

   [lprent: And how is Labour is involved in this post at all? I didn’t write about them. You didn’t explain or link to anything about how Labour was linked to this issue. There is a policy about that kind of trolling for a reason. Four week ban for diversion trolling on my post. The only reason that it wasn’t 3 months was because there was an issue you could have raised, but you needed to raise it rather than troll with it. ]
   • Tracey 6.1

     26 June 2014 at 2:46 pm

     john

     Bear with me for a moment.

     You know how the ACT party, the conservative party are not the same party as National?. Well, stick with me a while longer, the Green Party is not the labour party, and this is a site for discussing the Left.

     Did you stay with me?
     • framu 6.1.1

       26 June 2014 at 3:31 pm

       no he didnt
7. mikesh 7

   26 June 2014 at 1:48 pm

   It’s about time someone put the question: Is he too thick to understand what is said, or is he just being evasive.
   • ianmac 7.1

     26 June 2014 at 1:52 pm

     He has no intention of debating mikesh. Just a shit-stirrer.
     • weka 7.1.1

       26 June 2014 at 2:54 pm

       I thought he was talking about Key 😉
       • McFlock 7.1.1.1

         26 June 2014 at 3:25 pm

         [insert tory there]
         in the very best possible taste, of course 🙂
8. fisiani 8

   26 June 2014 at 2:20 pm

   key wants to continue oil exploration coal mining forestry and fishing . in other words he wants a successful NZ and is pilloried by jealous critics who cannot understand the centrist way he is working for New Zealand.
   • vto 8.1

     26 June 2014 at 2:44 pm

     key wants to exploit every resource in the land in the same way that the early primary producers took all the kauri and all the whales, and like the current primary producers are taking all the rivers and mining in all the wild areas

     he has no idea of long term human community and history because he is an extremist
     • Camryn 8.1.1

       27 June 2014 at 1:19 pm

       I know this is a bit of a nit pick, but I wouldn’t use the term “primary producers” for those who just take like whalers, kauri loggers and miners. They’re “extractors” – they don’t create anything, just extract it from where it is. Farmers are “primary producers” and, although they have an environmental impact too, they’re at least creating a resource rather than just extracting from an existing one.

       And this rivers thing is getting a bit overblown. It’s great that we’re focusing on cleaner rivers, but it’s not so great to blame current farmers for nitrates that didn’t bind 20 years ago. Current practices will lead to much, much cleaner rivers in future. Put another way… there’s a long lag as the environment recovers from past bad practice. Much of the correction in practice has already been done but we don’t see the benefit yet.
       • lprent 8.1.1.1

         27 June 2014 at 1:52 pm

         I always thought it was about 6 decades, but apparently it is more like 8 decades
         http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3831475/

         Because of the nature of farming, they don’t fertilize once every 20-30 years. They do it every few years so the leachable nitrates will keep building up in the soil.

         The problem is that killing rivers is pretty damn easy, all you have to do is feed the wrong plants and animals. Keeping them alive is a lot harder because it depends on everyone not treating the river as another ditch and forgetting about the buggers downstream.

         It is a tragedy of the commons issue.

         But with cows the real trick is to simply not allow them near rivers and therefore preventing their defection would get rid of much of the problem. I’d suggest that a simple immediate and automatic confiscation of any cow in a stream bed with no excuses would fix the problem pretty quickly.
         • Camryn 8.1.1.1.1

           27 June 2014 at 5:28 pm

           I think they’re better at only applying as much nitrate as will bind these days etc… better for the waterways and better economic sense (if it leeches away, it’s not making grass grow). Agree you’ve just got to keep the cows out of the water. There has been a lot of waterways fencing… a huge advance from many farmers not even having effluent ponds back in the day. Growing up, we drank creek water from the back of our farm and I’m sure I drank a lot of our neighbour’s cow shit!
         • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.2

           27 June 2014 at 5:45 pm

           It is a tragedy of the commons issue.

           No, it’s a tragedy of the lack of regulation.

           Every time the commons has been used by communities there’s been rules and regulations governing how that commons would be used. Capitalism and the fencing off of the commons into privately held land has seen those rules and regulations removed in favour of the landowners doing whatever the hell they like. The result being our polluted waterways.
   • Tracey 8.2

     26 June 2014 at 2:49 pm

     Because every country that has oil rigs, and coal mines have fiull employment and no public debt.
   • framu 8.3

     26 June 2014 at 3:32 pm

     he wants to do forestry in a dolphin sanctuary?

     thats just retarded

     i dotn expect you to get the point there fisty
     • Tracey 8.3.1

       26 June 2014 at 4:27 pm

       the only maui he gives a shit about is part of Hawaii.
   • Roy 8.4

     26 June 2014 at 3:46 pm

     A New Zealand that allows critically endangered species to become extinct is not a successful New Zealand.
9. philj 9

   26 June 2014 at 4:19 pm

   xox
   There is a suggestion ( sorry no references) that significant Maui dolphins had died from infections of the umbilical cord. Questions have to be asked about compromised immune systems from a degraded, polluted environment? Is there any scientific support for this hypothesis?
10. meconism 10

    26 June 2014 at 7:53 pm

    I will say it then: The phrase ‘mumbo jumbo’ is racist. Completely and unalterably racist.
    • In Vino 10.1

      26 June 2014 at 8:01 pm

      Golly!
11. In Vino 11

    26 June 2014 at 8:06 pm

    Just to make my attitude clearer: I find John Key’s attitude to environmental matters as contemptible as that of most ego-centric right-wingers.
12. Weepu's beard 12

    26 June 2014 at 9:53 pm

    When I was a teenager in 1984 my father (a very conservative, establishment man, bless him) said he didn’t like the way David Lange said “gunna” instead of “going to”.

    Well, if that was reason enough to nail your colours to a mast back then, then I don’t know what conservative, establishment men make of our current Pry Mincer today.
    • lprent 12.1

      26 June 2014 at 10:44 pm

      Yep. When I was doing a lot of canvassing that really is the level that a proportion of the electorate make up their mind on.
13. Jrobin 13

    27 June 2014 at 12:32 am

    Well they have been trained to focus on the personal and the emotional. Corporates put a lot of money into this manipulation, they must be pleased how well it’s all going. I’ll just tune in to the entertainment pages now to see how my celebrity buddies are and what clothes and pets they are displaying. Ooh look she’s had a boob job and eye lash tint and feels sooo jealous of her sister with the new boyfriend……how can reality compete its so harsh and full of sadness.
14. xtasy 14

    27 June 2014 at 1:00 am

    John Key, we respect YOUR MOTHER and her history, and your family’s difficulties, with all respect. What is your position on the disowned people in Palestine, the tortured prisoners there and many middle eastern countries, and what about the poor in many countries?

    What about the many poor in Latin America, Africa and South Asia, also?

    Do you bother to care, or has your personal “poverty story” been just a “personal” biographical experience and NADA else? We would like to know where you stand, dear Mr Key, beyond the rest of New Zealand, if you would care, please.

    We challenge you and sing NOW:

    “Hasta Siempre Commandante, Commandante Che Guevara!”

    You are free to answer and justify, if you can bother!
15. Jrobin 15

    27 June 2014 at 1:33 am

    Sorry xtasy JK doesn’t read or write, without a ghost writer that is.
    • Kiwiri 15.1

      27 June 2014 at 2:08 pm

      And when that ghost tells him, he will say he can’t recall.

      Or that he doesn’t think that’s right, but he remembers there were some vague things.
16. dimebag russell 16

    27 June 2014 at 5:48 pm

    ring ring.
    JK: That’ll be my broker…

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