Key calling in police over tea tape

101 comments on “Key calling in police over tea tape ”

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1. Pete George 1

   14 November 2011 at 4:36 pm

   I think he is making an important point for all politicians.

   I wouldn’t like to see “accidental” recording going open slather, and I doubt any serious party people would either once they see past point scoring opportunism.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.1

     14 November 2011 at 4:38 pm

     All political discussions should be public. They do, after all, affect everyone and so everyone has a right and a need to know.

     Politicians having “private” conversations should be done for treason.
     • insider 1.1.1

       14 November 2011 at 4:48 pm

       Even caucus discussions say on Chris Carter or Taito, or Pansy or Worth? Similarly a civil servant will never have a free and frank discussion under your rules.
     • Pete George 1.1.2

       14 November 2011 at 4:49 pm

       I don’t agree, politicians have to be able to have private discussions. A cafe with a media frenzy is a stupid place to have a private discussion but al politicians should have the same legal rights to privacy as anyone else.

       This is a bad precedent – and I’d bet that all parties will agree after the election.
       • Lanthanide 1.1.2.1

         14 November 2011 at 5:00 pm

         I agree that politicians should be able to have private conversations in public places like cafes.

         But not if that conversation is part of an election stunt that they specifically invited the press to attend.
         • Tigger 1.1.2.1.1

           14 November 2011 at 5:09 pm

           And where the press are one foot away and the detail of the conversation is designed to be public (ie. this wasn’t a secret meeting, we all knew what they were there to discuss).

           Getting sick of News of the World crap from Key. He has no fucking idea how rank they were. If he thinks this is on par with what they did then he’s pathetic.
           • Lanthanide 1.1.2.1.1.1

             14 November 2011 at 5:58 pm

             “Getting sick of News of the World crap from Key. He has no fucking idea how rank they were. If he thinks this is on par with what they did then he’s pathetic.”

             I’m sure Key knows it’s not in the same ballpark as NotW. But that’s not the point. It’s what the punters out there in punter-land know about NotW that counts, and for Key equating this with NotW is a valid strategy.

             IMO it’s a bad strategy, because enough people know enough about the NotW scandal (particularly anyone from the UK) and what they were doing to know that this is in a different league, thus making Key look stupid to them.
         • Jackal 1.1.2.1.2

           14 November 2011 at 5:51 pm

           Lanthanide

           But not if that conversation is part of an election stunt that they specifically invited the press to attend.

           That’s what makes Keys Police complaint so stupid! The media were invited to attend… the recording was what is termed incidental and under the law can be used. Key has no legal rights here… a competent PM would know that.
       • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2.2

         14 November 2011 at 5:21 pm

         I don’t agree, politicians have to be able to have private discussions.

         If they’re discussing actions that they’re going to take that affects everyone else why should those conversations be private?

         A cafe with a media frenzy is a stupid place to have a private discussion…

         The two Johnies weren’t having a private discussion – they were having political discussion. Yes, it was probably a bad place to have said discussion but we still should hear it.

         …should have the same legal rights to privacy as anyone else.

         Where have I said that they shouldn’t? It’s only in association with their job that I say that they should be recorded and the recording made public.

         Even caucus discussions say on Chris Carter or Taito, or Pansy or Worth?

         Perhaps a small time lag for sensitive discussions.
   • ron 1.2

     14 November 2011 at 7:41 pm

     You know what? I try to be reasonable in the forums(a?). I try to respond reasonably with evidence for my arguments and analysis of the other’s case. But you know what? Jonkey and Banksy made a bloody great song and dance about their cuppa. “hoho see us Righties having a jolly PR time together – cmon Epsom, cmon”.
     They looked like the dicks they are and showed what dicks they are by saying something they don’t want us to hear in f^*king public!
     Bullshit, Pete. Jonkey hasn’t called the cops because he trying to protect some shonkey concept of privacy and fair play.. He’s grandstanding to protect his smelly Tory arse. OF COURSE I’d be pissed of if the Tories bugged a meeting of my party.
     This isn’t a bug in their office. This isn’t someone sectretly recording a meeting. This is the same as Smith’s “dead rats”. The conversation could just as easily have been reprted by someone overhearing the conversation. The only difference is that Shonkey jonkey can’t lie about it because there’s evidence.

     If we can roll these f*^kers by using a bit of accidental audio – i reckon go for it and see if Jonkey can fight it off, the ballless little prick.
     • Colonial Viper 1.2.1

       14 November 2011 at 7:45 pm

       Now that’s fighting talk 🙂
     • Rodel 1.2.2

       14 November 2011 at 8:08 pm

       What you say is spot on! so true and well said!
       How dare they invite the media on mass for such a shallow publicity stunt then try to limit what the media can or cannot report.
       It smells of dictatorship censorship. You vill report only vat I vant you to report.!!!

       But seriously folks, who gives half a sh*t what these two jonhywankers said to each other?

       Shame donnybrash couldn’t get invited to the teaparty. He would have been frankly.

       I wish we had a John Stewart in NZ. Is there anyone?
     • the sprout 1.2.3

       14 November 2011 at 8:15 pm

       hear hear ron
2. Draco T Bastard 2

   14 November 2011 at 4:36 pm

   Is it just me, or is John Key starting to look like he has something to hide?

   Definitely and he’s going to a lot of effort to hide it. The tape should have been released as soon as HoS got it that’s what would have happened in a credible fourth estate but we don’t have one of those.
   • insider 2.1

     14 November 2011 at 5:10 pm

     yeah but you guys think he can’t lie straight in bed so it is hardly a high bar you are setting.
   • Jim Nald 2.2

     14 November 2011 at 10:53 pm

     This recent incident has even prompted a response from my staunch Tory brother who half sighed, saying Brand Key is imploding.
3. mickysavage 3

   14 November 2011 at 4:43 pm

   All politicians go insane during election campaigns.  So much is on the line and they have to be perfect.  I have witnessed many pollies’ decision making go to pot in the last couple of weeks.
    
   The pressure is especially bad for Key because he is carrying all of National’s hopes and expectations on his back.  The strain is showing.
    
   He has now given oxygen to the story and everyone in the country is thinking “what was on the tape?”
    
   The slithery one calls it the Barbara Streisland effect.
    
   Major mistake by Key.  He should have laughted it off.
   • Lanthanide 3.1

     14 November 2011 at 5:02 pm

     Actually I think by reporting it to the police, they’ve now effectively made it impossible for the mainstream journalists to release it. So it’ll sit with the police until after the election, when it won’t matter anyway.
     • Colonial Viper 3.1.1

       14 November 2011 at 6:14 pm

       No charges have been laid, so no problem.

       Especially since the Herald already has a legal opinion to that effect. The recording was made in a public place, with invited media present, with the heads of two main political parties performing in a public show and tell.

       Release it and sort it out in the courts afterwards.
       • Lanthanide 3.1.1.1

         14 November 2011 at 7:06 pm

         The police have registered the complaint.

         TV3 news says they have a copy of the recording but were advised by the police before going to air not to play it.

         Watching Campbell Live now, they just had a 3-4 minute interview with Winston Peters. Giving Peters press time is in itself a huge own-goal by Key on this issue.
       • TighyRighty 3.1.1.2

         14 November 2011 at 8:26 pm

         You are such a toad. I can only imagine th lengths to which you would scream criminality if this was against someone you supported. I understand partisan, but without reason? Again, through are the reason that the average labour voter is of lower intelligence than the average nat voter.
         • mickysavage 3.1.1.2.1

           14 November 2011 at 8:48 pm

           Again, through are the reason that the average labour voter is of lower intelligence than the average nat voter

           Well tight righty I think you just confirmed two things:

           1.  You are really stupid.
           2.   If you are the average nat voter then the average Labour voter is way more intelligent.  And more passionate.
     • Hami Shearlie 3.1.2

       14 November 2011 at 8:32 pm

       Exactly Lanthy! That was the reason JK complained to police. Still, look for it sent to someone overseas on a computer file, who will then upload it on to Youtube. By the time it’s taken off, many will have it stored on their computers! Technology rules!!
4. Armchair Critic 4

   14 November 2011 at 4:47 pm

   Of course he has some things to hide:
   1. A lack of policy in some areas.
   2. Unpopular policy in other areas.
   3. A pretty poor track record in government.
   This teapot recording provides a great distraction from National’s weak points and takes the attention away form Labour – they really need to stay in the spotlight for the next two weeks (and for the right reasons).
   The only other alternative I can see is a brief discussion of upcoming personal issues with John Banks, but I doubt either of them are dumb enough to even refer to such things in public. Well, I doubt John Key is that dumb. It’s only a possible subject because if National form a government after the election they will do so with a slim majority (one or two), and John Key does not want and can not afford another MP from Epsom resigning under undisclosed circumstances.
5. McFlock 5

   14 November 2011 at 4:49 pm

   Hmmm.
   Because there was a clearer recording of an already semi-audible conversation, it’s a police matter?
   If a camera operator recorded the visual of them speaking through the windows of the restaurant, would lipreading be illegal as well?
   I reckon they might be doing a big hoopla over this so that it’s a fizzle just before the election.
   • the sprout 5.1

     14 November 2011 at 8:20 pm

     i wonder that too, better have voters focus on non-issue than the many many holes in nat policy

     OTOH so far its only helped to reinforce perceptions of secrecy, hypocritical pettiness and mismanagement – and pissing off media. it’s a dangerous strategy if it’s set-up
6. tc 6

   14 November 2011 at 4:55 pm

   It’s a massive staged managed distraction…..HOS is granny b*&ch after all, I don’t think he’s that stupid but on the other hand Banks is so maybe just maybe. key’s media managed to within a micron by his many support crew.
7. anne 7

   14 November 2011 at 5:16 pm

   In this case the ‘public interest’ outweighs the ‘private interest’,remember ‘watergate’ recordings, the public interest factor allowed them to be released to the public.
8. felix 8

   14 November 2011 at 5:17 pm

   I wonder when we’re going to stop calling it a “tape”…
   • Lanthanide 8.1

     14 November 2011 at 5:59 pm

     Not for another 20-30 years until all the oldies have knocked off and we’re left with the digital generation in charge of the media and public discourse in general.
   • mike 8.2

     14 November 2011 at 7:24 pm

     “The Teapot Tape” is catchy tho. It also has a pleasing “Watergate” feeling to it.
9. Cin77 9

   14 November 2011 at 5:25 pm

   I dont know what to think. Originally I figured it for a PR stunt but with the hoopla Keys raising maybe there is some substance to this.

   I rekon it’ll be mostly drivel anyway and what we get to know eventrually will be a well scrubbed version. Hope the guy that caught it kept a copy, I think that would make some interesting listening (or reading, transcript please kind sir 🙂
   • Tigger 9.1

     14 November 2011 at 5:28 pm

     I do love a good conspiracy theory and I’m in knots trying to figure this one out.

     I think it all comes down to what is going on, rather than what was intended. What’s going on? Key is saying one thing (I don’t care) but doing another (going to the police). And he’s stuck talking about a secret recording and what he said rather than focusing on the issues. All in all what’s going on is bad for him.
     • Lanthanide 9.1.1

       14 November 2011 at 6:01 pm

       Yeah I agree.

       Overall the handling by Key is poor. Either it’s not a big deal, or it is. He’s trying to have both and is so looking foolish. It’s definitely put the tea party in a negative light and spun it into the headline news for tonight, which is a bad outcome for Key.

       It gives Labour ammunition to mock him with for the rest of the campaign too.
     • Dan1 9.1.2

       14 November 2011 at 6:31 pm

       Initially Key said he didn’t mind it going public, quite relaxed. Then it is now so serious that it requires a complaint to the police.
       It confirms to me that Key has no idea of what is important and what is not. It was not until someone else heard the tape and pointed out some inconsistencies that Key realised he was in the crap.
       My initial reaction was it was all a distracting setup to diminish the need for policies. Now the old rule of conspiracy vs stuffup: pick stuffup every time.

       Key’s face and body demeanour changes when he is lying. Fascinating stuff!
       • Hami Shearlie 9.1.2.1

         14 November 2011 at 8:36 pm

         I’ve noticed Key’s face-changes too. Love it when he’s questioned about his links with Lord Ashcroft. Really sick looking!
10. Neil 10

    14 November 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Tapes ill-gotten, but only accidently, revealed information of “public interest” that would affect votes, according to Herald on Sunday editor Bryce Johns.

    So what exactly what were John Key and John Banks talking about so candidly in front of the nation’s media, as part of a stunt they themselves organised in order to pull democracy’s pants down in Epsom?

    http://fearfactsexposed.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/key-and-banks-take-the-piss-out-of-democracy/
11. felix 11

    14 November 2011 at 5:56 pm

    Looks like the “tape” has been leaked: http://bit.ly/vqSter
    • Lanthanide 11.1

      14 November 2011 at 6:02 pm

      Lol.
    • the sprout 11.2

      14 November 2011 at 8:25 pm

      excellent but both of them sound sane and intelligible
12. Craig Glen Eden 12

    14 November 2011 at 6:00 pm

    So we have John Key having a private conversation with his Gimp that was recorded in a Public place in a spot that the media was told about before hand so they could witness it. This meeting is to have cup of tea which symbolizes Nationals support for the gimp, Key is not telling Nat voters how to vote but he wouldnt be upset if they voted for the Gimp. he wont vote for the Gimp but others should? The conversation was about not much and Key is not bothered about it, but he is going to the police to stop it being made public. SSHHHish. So is Key waisting Police Time or what? To think people voted for this goober.
13. outofbed 13

    14 November 2011 at 6:19 pm

    So Brash gets rolled and Act is a branch of the National party eh?
    • felix 13.1

      14 November 2011 at 6:44 pm

      Act is already a branch of the National party. Brash has already been rolled.
    • Treetop 13.2

      14 November 2011 at 6:49 pm

      “So Brash gets rolled and Act is a branch of the National party eh?”

      Well to me it is looking like there are two National candidates running in Epsom.

      I have to give Brash his dues as I am able to tell that he is representing Act.

      As a side issue I said on 11 November 2011 on Banks & Peters 9. “… Brash will get rolled as leader by the end of the year if Act get back in.”

      If Key discussed Brash being rolled, it indicates that Key has crossed the line, as he always says that certain matters are the concern of the party and not for him to comment on. Yeah right, but only when it suits Key!
14. McFlock 14

    14 November 2011 at 6:29 pm

    lol – maybe the idea was for banks to leave act and stay in as an independent? 🙂
15. dad4justice 15

    14 November 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Hey Key you gutless wimpish creep the cops got better things to do than wipe your yellow burnside arse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    And I thought Aunty Helen was bad.

    Only a fuckwit would bother voting in this election. Fact!!
    • ghostwhowalksnz 15.1

      14 November 2011 at 6:42 pm

      Well he getsthe Police to come to him in his office…. the next day.

      Its just a bit of push back … so when hes asked about the contents … he can say

      “Sorry police investigation …no Comment”, or some mangled version thereof
      • dad4justice 15.1.1

        14 November 2011 at 6:47 pm

        Like Aunty Helen the Key wimp has the pigs in the back pocket.

        Fuck this country is sick, just ask the Kahui Twins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
        • mik e 15.1.1.1

          14 November 2011 at 11:14 pm

          DAD 4 Justice you are a poor role model
16. Blue 16

    14 November 2011 at 6:46 pm

    Key really is a dork isn’t he?

    Calling the police in, as if they have nothing better to do than to investigate this.

    The HOS has already said over and over again that it was accidental, the cameraman has explained how it happened, and it’s pretty clear that it was just a consequence of being caught up in the Key-created media frenzy.

    But loser-boy has an ego the size of a small planet and thinks it’s all about him.
    • Jackal 16.1

      14 November 2011 at 10:48 pm

      The cops even call the media up to ensure they wont broadcast the recording. Meanwhile they’re ignoring my formal complaint regarding Owen Glenn trying to buy peoples votes… pisses me right off.
17. mike 17

    14 November 2011 at 6:49 pm

    “We can’t tell you what’s on the tape.”

    “John Banks is it true you are planning to restructure ACT after the election?”

    Nice one TV3.
    • felix 17.1

      14 November 2011 at 7:01 pm

      Heh.
      • Lanthanide 17.1.1

        14 November 2011 at 7:11 pm

        Interview between Brash and John Campbell, he ended it up by asking Brash about whether Banks supports him as leader.

        TV3 have the tapes but were told by the police not to air them.
    • Colonial Viper 17.2

      14 November 2011 at 9:59 pm

      How come Key is helping Banks get rid of Brash? Isn’t ACT an independent political party? What’s National got to do with it?

      There must be rules around these situations. Where a political party is shown not to be truly independent but is actually a puppet wing of another larger party.
18. dad4justice 18

    14 November 2011 at 6:58 pm

    I guess I know why Nutional and the wimpish Key mean when they say we are building a brighter future with the help of the pigs. Oh great maybe crusher can break another finger nail. No wonder the Kahui twins and Kirsty Bentley have no closure. Give the cops a ring John, oh don’t worry if you get a smack in the head by a angry bro eh mate………………..

    I am disgusted with these creeps.  
19. Terry 19

    14 November 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Interesting to see the police spring so quickly into action! ?? This event could hardly be both private AND public, Key cannot have it both ways (as hard as he tries). Key is calling into the question the integrity of the Editor of the H-on-S it appears. Bryce is beyond reproach. Of course, the countless thousand of “nice Mr Key” lackeys will be staggered to hear the meeting described as potentially “explosive”!
20. tsmithfield 20

    14 November 2011 at 8:03 pm

    Several points:

    1. The herald had plenty of time to publish if they thought it was in the public interest. The didn’t. Even TV3, who have heard the tape, commented tonight that the claims of it being a “game-changer” were over-blown, and described it as merely “interesting”. So talk of there being some cover-up is ridiculous. However, I can imagine that Key would prefer not to have the distraction of having to deal with unnecessary intrusion and distortion from the media over what the evidence suggests does not pass the test of public interest.

    2. Ambrose has admitted that he intentionally placed the recorder where it was without the consent of either Key or Banks, so his position looks fairly shaky.

    3. Key was quite right to go to the police if he felt the discussion he was having was no longer privy to media attention, and the boundary had been crossed. Surely he is entitled to the same rights as everyone else. And why the hell should he make his own private discussions public just to please the bleatings of the left anyway?
    • Stanley 20.1

      14 November 2011 at 8:20 pm

      With reference to your second point, I took Ambrose’s comments to mean he put a mic on the table at a time at the beginning of the meeting when the media were inside the room, and Banks (at least) was answering questions. He got squeezed out of the group around the table because of the sheer number of media trying to get a shot or audio, and when he tried to get a wide shot, the scrum got moved outside by the media minders, and he couldn’t get/forgot to get his transmitter. As a reference, I put a mic and transmitter in front of the PM last week, on a lectern. I didn’t ask permission or consent. It was in plain view, at a Grey Power meeting with a number of other media present.
    • Draco T Bastard 20.2

      14 November 2011 at 8:51 pm

      And why the hell should he make his own private discussions public just to please the bleatings of the left anyway?

      1.) When two politicians are talking concerning the interactions of their parties that will have a direct effect upon people and so they have a right to know what was said.
      2.) It was a discussion in a public space which means, by default, that the conversation wasn’t private.
    • mik e 20.3

      14 November 2011 at 9:38 pm

      own goal by HOs
    • Colonial Viper 20.4

      15 November 2011 at 12:15 am

      And why the hell should he make his own private discussions public just to please the bleatings of the left anyway?

      I dunno, maybe to convince voters that him and Banks aren’t pre-planning a contrivance to screw voters and screw Brash in one go?

      If they making confidential plans now contrary to their public statements, or which could affect how people view their parties pre-election, then it needs to come out now, the whole lot, lock stock and barrel.
21. mike 21

    14 November 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Who saw Winston Peters on Campbell Live before Campbell asked Brash whether “John Banks supports me absolutely,” meant that John Banks really, really, really supports Brash?

    Winston was glowing. Did he implying he had heard this ever-more mysterious tape? Did I miss something? Why are we talking to Winston? He was firing on all cylinders. He reckons it will show a John Key the public doesn’t see. The one who says one thing in public and another in private. Here’s hoping. Or maybe he’s just taking the chance to grab himself a slice of John Key is a shifty liar pie.

    Goff is right this is farcical. So it begins – with two weeks to go, it’s always a silly fun-farm surreal circus monkey on party pills from here folks.
22. gobsmacked 22

    14 November 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Yes, the journos don’t need to publish what was said. They just need to have heard or seen what was said (TV3, Herald) and then ask Banks and Key about it, without explicitly referring to it. No law against asking those questions.

    You don’t ask “Did you say on the tape …”

    You ask “Can you confirm / rule out that you will … ” “Have you ever discussed …” “So are you saying that you’ve never …” etc.

    Unfortunately the number of political journos in NZ who have the skills or desire to do this can be counted on one hand, but still.
    • felix 22.1

      14 November 2011 at 8:13 pm

      Seems that’s exactly what tv3 were doing, according to reports a few comments upthread.
23. Brett Dale 23

    14 November 2011 at 8:12 pm

    If this tape was damaging, wouldn’t silence form key be the best, wouldn’t he just let it die out, I kinda think the left is being played, that Goff will scream and yell like a circus chimp to have it released, and when it comes out and its nothing, he will end up looking foolish, not to hard for Goff I guess.
    • mickysavage 23.1

      14 November 2011 at 8:16 pm

      So why would Key go to the police about it then?  Wouldn’t this make him look like a dork if he was trying to play Goff?
    • felix 23.2

      14 November 2011 at 8:16 pm

      Have you seen Goff screaming and yelling before Brett?

      Have you ever seen him over-reacting with inappropriate outbursts of emotionally charged fervour?

      Are you sure you’re thinking of Phil Goff?

      Do you spend a lot of time with your own thoughts, Brett?
24. Treetop 24

    14 November 2011 at 8:28 pm

    I can now see why Brash was not invited along for a cuppa and a chat when Banks and Key met to appease the voters of Epsom. The day for the cuppa was probably picked when it was known that Brash had an engagement in the South Island.
25. felix 25

    14 November 2011 at 8:32 pm

    Notice how irrelevant Brash is these days?

    TV3 tonight showed Banks and Key on the campaign trail, all busy and bustling.

    Then when they talk to Brash – nominally the leader of the party at the centre of the scandal – it’s at what looks like a family bbq.

    Retired already.
    • Draco T Bastard 25.1

      14 November 2011 at 8:54 pm

      Notice how irrelevant Brash is these days?

      Brash hasn’t been relevant since he lost the 2k5 election due to dithering with the EB and lying about it.
26. gobsmacked 26

    14 November 2011 at 8:52 pm

    A conservative curmudgeon (who usually gets stuck into lefty-liberals) is not impressed by Key on this one …

    http://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2011/11/funny-business-at-cafe-urban.html

    Generally, I reckon that “News of the World” line from Key/Joyce is backfiring. Most people can work out the difference between publicity-seeking politicians and the family of a murdered girl or a dead soldier.
    • Jim Nald 26.1

      14 November 2011 at 11:21 pm

      … in this latest case, Honesty has been murdered
      • rosy 26.1.1

        14 November 2011 at 11:38 pm

        Anything I thought about Key being intelligent… scrub that.
        1. meeting in a public place with reporters and camera operators in tow – fine for the PR purpose
        2. not noticing a stray black bag on the table after everyone shooed out – what??
        3. Talking about anything other than ‘how’s the weather today?’ in such a setting – crazy
        3. Identifying said black bag as a recording device at the end of the discussion – All righty, light bulb moment.
        4. Handing it over to be handed back to the owner without checking it – a wtf moment, really how stupid can a slick PR whore be?

        Surely handing back an object identified as a recorder is a form of permission for the owner to do what he likes with it? It was GIVEN to him.

        And if I was a betting person I’d bet it has the word ‘sheeple’ on it. That fits the stories of Key – that the conversation was pretty boring – and the editor who used ‘game-changer’ to describe it. As in, for example, ‘nothing to worry about Johnny the sheeple of Epsom will vote like they’re told to’.
27. Puddleglum 27

    14 November 2011 at 8:57 pm

    There’s always a plan B.

    John Key was ‘plan B’ for when Brash became leader of National. Banks is ‘plan B’ for when Brash became the leader of ACT.

    Sadly, ‘plan A’ just kept on failing.

    Or was ‘plan A’ always just ‘bait and switch’? The main thing was to dislodge Rodney Hide from Epsom – that could be done once Brash acted as the battering ram. Banks could then take over.

    Rodney Hide – in his custodianship of ACT – was a bit like Saddam Hussein’s custodianship of Iraq; a useful proxy but a bit too independent at times. It was inevitable that the time would come when he needed to be removed.
    • mik e 27.1

      14 November 2011 at 9:41 pm

      Quaint frankly your right Puddle
      • Colonial Viper 27.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 12:05 am

        Given the desperately short list of talent Key is relying on to run ACT, they seem to be on Plan Y or Plan Z currently.
28. ianmac 28

    14 November 2011 at 9:26 pm

    And keep in mind that the Brash take-over was maybe a connivance between Steven Joyce and Act and as strategist for National he no doubt has responsibility for the tea party. And therefore the stuff up. Shadows suit him.
29. appleboy 29

    14 November 2011 at 9:53 pm

    It may well be the tone that is so damaging rather than content. What if Key was portrayed as something quite different to the scripted, ‘likeable’ John the public think they know…using cynical, disparaging language – of Brash, of the media, of the public, that undermines his public image just enough to turn the undecided swingers away and suddenly it’s all on as National fall to mid 40’s.

    Maybe this explains the change of heart by MonKey..not about the content but he’s recalled the tone that may undermine his image.
    • felix 29.1

      14 November 2011 at 10:10 pm

      “…of the public…”

      That’s what I reckon too. He’ll be saying something about the “little people” or the “plebs” falling in line and doing what they’re told and voting for Banks.

      Half-jokingly of course, but it’s hard to report only the joking half.
      • burt 29.1.1

        14 November 2011 at 10:30 pm

        I totally agree with you. However I think that as the blue stripe from Epsom do act as sheep I think pointing out that Key and Banks discuss them as such will make them chuckle. FFS, if they are prepared to take one for the team and put Banks into parliament then they are not going to be to fussed about being momentarily mocked for it. They’ll be mocking each other about it for decades.
        • felix 29.1.1.1

          14 November 2011 at 10:44 pm

          Could be so. If I were Key I wouldn’t want to risk it though.

          While you’re here, what if anything do you reckon – as an ACT supporter/former supporter – about Banks being the face of the party, and potentially the leader?
          • burt 29.1.1.1.1

            14 November 2011 at 10:55 pm

            Bollocks. Total bollocks.
    • burt 29.2

      14 November 2011 at 10:25 pm

      Look ummm, can someone remind me again why the surveillance evidence in the Urewera 18 case was inadmissible? That’s right it wasn’t done legally.

      Seems appropriate that as gossip of a recordings gained traction that Key should push the ‘consequences’ button. He’s so recently been strongly reminded the consequences of not following legal process with making recordings so he’s right to ensure the law is vigorously adhered to.
      • Lanthanide 29.2.1

        14 November 2011 at 11:11 pm

        There’s quite a big difference between the police installing surveillance video cameras for months knowing that it wasn’t within the existing laws, and someone ‘accidentally’ leaving a microphone in front of the PM for 8-9 minutes during a staged media event.
        • burt 29.2.1.1

          15 November 2011 at 7:43 am

          Yes, a big difference – one was months of video and one was minutes of audio. However both are illegal recordings.

          Is there really people in NZ who think they can “secretly” record the PM and not face legal consequences ? Really…
          • Colonial Viper 29.2.1.1.1

            15 November 2011 at 7:55 am

            However both are illegal recordings.

            Not according to the Herald’s legal team, mate. Trust them more than I trust you. And that’s really saying something.
      • fmacskasy 29.2.2

        15 November 2011 at 8:01 am

        Burt – because the Urewera 18 aren’t standing for Parliament? Because they’re not stitching up deals to win electorates? And because the Urerwera 18 won’t be elected to pass laws in the House that affect us all?

        Howzat for a few differences?
30. Jan 30

    14 November 2011 at 10:22 pm

    My take on cuppagate? It’s an evil plot to distract the MSM from an in-depth analysis of policy proposals and therefore potentially alerting voters as to which party’s policies might be in their best interests ;-).

    [always assume fuckup over conspiracy. People fuckup all the time. Conspiracies that work and stay secret are a special level of not fucking up that comes along very rarely. Zet]
    • burt 30.1

      14 November 2011 at 10:38 pm

      I think so. If Key and Banks (and all their minders) were so completely inept as to let this happen by accident then they should all fricken resign right now!

      Happy to be called wrong on this, but I think they utterly knew it was there and they are now playing it to their advantage.
      • Colonial Viper 30.1.1

        15 November 2011 at 7:58 am

        Happy to be called wrong on this, but I think they utterly knew it was there and they are now playing it to their advantage.

        So they knew the radio mic was there, and deliberately left it anyway, which means that the recording made is not illegal.
        • burt 30.1.1.1

          15 November 2011 at 7:23 pm

          Yes, indeed. If you think for a moment Key knew it was on then you might want to stop giving him oxygen over it.
      • rosy 30.1.2

        15 November 2011 at 8:20 am

        Yeah I know Burt, it’s so hard to work out if they were really stupid or really manipulative *sigh* I’m going for stupid.
    • fmacskasy 30.2

      15 November 2011 at 8:03 am

      [always assume fuckup over conspiracy. People fuckup all the time. Conspiracies that work and stay secret are a special level of not fucking up that comes along very rarely. Zet]

      Precisely.

      Cases in point, to prove how real conspiracies end up;

      * Iran-Contra Deal.

      * Watergate.

      * Assassination of Julius Caesar.
31. burt 31

    14 November 2011 at 10:54 pm

    Another possibility. Key told Banks that his clash over decriminalising marijuana ends after the election. That if he wants the nod for 3 year in Epsom he’s got to at least tow his own party leaders line.

    That would probably meet the criteria for the media to say it would change the way people see the govt.
    • Colonial Viper 31.1

      15 November 2011 at 8:00 am

      2 follow on scenarios

      1) The clash over decriminalising marijuana ends because Key assists in getting Brash gets dumped.

      2) The clash over decriminalising marijuana ends because Key says he will come out in support of it.

      Yes both scenarios would change how the public votes and we should be told now.
32. Jan 32

    14 November 2011 at 11:13 pm

    It’s a joke! However there is a serious point – nearly all of the MSM election news is diversionary and uninformative – the analysis of trivia like body language that – that frankly I can see for myself. The polls are indicating that 30-40% of people in NZ – possibly more – are reporting that they are just about to vote against their own best interests. There seems to be a connection here!
33. mik e 33

    14 November 2011 at 11:17 pm

    Can someone just lip read the news reel and we can get some transparency from our transparent PM PinoKeynose
34. Tigger 34

    15 November 2011 at 12:20 pm

    “But Mr Key has today maintained the recording of his conversation with ACT’s Epsom candidate John Banks was no different to the hacking of a dead girl’s phone by defunct British tabloid News of the World.”

    Really JK, it’s as bad as the hacking of a dead girl’s phone? What else is it no different to – genocide, serial killing, rape and torture?
35. Richard Down South 35

    15 November 2011 at 9:20 pm

    I thought i had posted this, but here goes again… do the police have the right to ‘usher’ the press out of a cafe, without a request to do so by the business owner… what if they wanted a coffee and a muffin?
36. Rodel 36

    16 November 2011 at 11:51 pm

    Meanwhile back in the jungle…Bill English is formulating plans to sell Kiwibank and ACC…and no one is noticing….

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