Key’s crocodile tears for teachers & doctors

Written By: - Date published: 9:59 am, September 20th, 2010 - 30 comments
Categories: class war, john key, national, tax, wages - Tags: ,

John Key told Breakfast this morning that he supports the teachers and junior doctors’ claims for a pay rise ‘but we simply don’t have the money’.

This is the same John Key who is borrowing half a billion dollars this year for tax cuts for the wealthiest 9% of taxpayers, eh?

It isn’t a question of what the government can afford. It’s a question of who matters to National – the rich do, teachers and doctors don’t.

30 comments on “Key’s crocodile tears for teachers & doctors”

  1. ianmac 1

    A week ago Key was saying something about “Teachers are out of touch with reality.” This implies lack of sympathy with their case. Changed the tone a bit hasn’t he?

  2. D14 2

    Must have noticed the stuff? poll which was approx 50 50 for/against teachers.

    • lprent 2.1

      Self-selecting online poll? Who cares…

      • Lanthanide 2.1.1

        Actually 50/50 from a website that is generally right-leaning (white-collar professionals browsing the web while at work) is actually pretty good support for the teachers, higher than I’d have expected.

  3. Mac1 3

    How much money per annum is calculated to pay both claims at the rates sought by the unions involved?
    Anti-spam ‘drawings’.

    • Blighty 3.1

      The teachers’ is about $30 million isn’t it?

      • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

        Wasn’t that the amount that NACT increased government subsidies to private schools?

        • Tim 3.1.1.1

          No…Key gave private schools 50 million. This would have paid for a 6% pay rise for teachers. It would also have reduced class sizes significantly…but I guess when the National front bench all send their kids to private schools they don’t really care.

        • Anne 3.1.1.2

          $35 million it was DTB.

          Bloody abhorrent! What makes it worse in my view is that private schools are exempt from Nat Standards – excuse being the can’t enforce it. Well, that has never stopped them changing laws to suit themselves before. The truth is: it suits them not to have their own kids and grand-kids subjected to the Standards.

          • Anne 3.1.1.2.1

            Your comment wasn’t up when I posted Tim. I thought it was $35mil. but perhaps there was something else as well.

  4. prism 4

    It is a matter of fact that developing nations bringing education to their people, especially women, gives a huge boost to improving their stats of wellbeing and wealth. We teeter on the edge of being a developed country with modern industries, and have a huge dependence on businesses in extraction of natural resources, agriculture and farming products. The scions of those businessmen don’t have the wit to understand Fred Dagg’s ironic “We don’t know how lucky we are.” Education is needed to keep our country from sinking into ruts of lack-lustre common-sense policies that get recycled in different clothes, every decade or less.

    There is an item on Bryan Crumps evening program on RadioNz this week which looks at the freezing out of humanities studies with the trend no doubt in favour of those directly concerned with industry, finance and management.

    I think this is a part of the waning interest in a broad education and encouraging enquiring minds, to just a factory process turning out strata of learners, with teachers as head of factory lines. It sounds rather like ant behaviour. I was shocked to find they are so smart (item recently on RadioNZ) – one of their behaviours is to direct the nurture of their young ants so they are precisely programmed for particular tasks.

  5. tc 5

    A fair few voters with families were conned to vote nat’s on the tax cuts north of $50 porky combined with their alleged labour lite approach to education/health/welfare i.e keep funding it as it was.

    Wonder what shonky cons they’ll try in 2011 to cover up the 2008 lies…..it’ll probably work the way Phildo’s tracking.

    • Vicky32 5.1

      Well, they deserved what they got then, these greedy people who were ‘conned’! (Just heard TV3 explaining that a tax cut for a worker on 28,000 which will be wiped out by the GST rise, really *is* fair – and the Phil Goff really is an idiot for suggesting the removal of GST on fruit and veges. NACT don’t need PR people, they have TV3! )
      Deb

      • Bill 5.1.1

        Notice that the guy on $28 000 ( some $3000 or $4000 above the average wage) was touted as being a part time worker?

        • Vicky32 5.1.1.1

          It gets a bit cponfusing really! TV3 said that the ‘average wage’ is $51 000, and I don’t know anyone who comes near that, even if they are working full time, even in the case of a professional! So what on earth *is* the average wage?
          Deb

          • Bill 5.1.1.1.1

            The mean average is the sum total of all wages divided by the number of all wage earners.

            The mode average is the wage that most people earn.

            The median average is the wage that is half way between the lowest wage and the highest wage.

            The media don’t use the mode average which is strange given that it best reflects the reality of most people.

  6. Lanthanide 6

    “It’s a question of who matters to National – the rich do, teachers and doctors don’t.”
    I shouldn’t need to point this out, but looks like I do.

    Some teachers, and most junior doctors will be getting pretty reasonable/big tax cuts from National.

    • Red Rosa 6.1

      Tolley was on TV yesterday, saying that the average secondary teacher’s salary was $70k. $70k! She probably worked out from that figure, however derived, that half the teachers would then get tax cuts.

      There are a few statistical niceties here that need pointing out by the cognoscenti. But my guess is that the average salary is a good deal less than $70k, and a good deal less than half of all teachers earn over the average. Y’know…means, medians and all that jazz.

      Presumably the PPTA have something to say on this one.

      • BLiP 6.1.1

        Its classic government mathematics and overlooks the difference between the “average” and the “mean” – and bloody mean it is too.

        (Captcha = evened!! C’mon, lprent, admit it – you and your buddies get together every couple of weeks with a bottle of whiskey and sit around loading up the dictionary while giggling amongst yourselves, I *know* you do ☺ )

    • Tim 6.2

      Bollocks. Very few teachers earn anywhere near $70,000. Any teacher that does would have to have management responsibilities as this is beyond the top of the scale. So the ‘big’ tax cuts, which most people would see as the massive 6% drop in the top tax rate, will not make one bit of difference to teachers.

      Stop repeating Tolley sound bites

  7. Fabregas4 7

    The $70k figure is actually a real concern to us all because it is an average amount not the amount paid to an average teacher. So the average teacher (one without extra paid responsibilities such as AP, DP, Curriculum Leader) is more like $60- $65 but only after they have worked their way through the grades over 10 or so years. The fact that teachers average salary is going up is the worry because it signals that there are less ‘new’ teachers and that the profession is becoming dominated by ‘older’ professionals (not being disrespectful to them just saying). Maybe a good hard look at the salaries would help to recruit some younger people? Starting salary is around $40k right now.

    • Bored 7.1

      At $60 -65K teachers are well out in front of the average wage…which just shows how piss poor that is. And a large chunk of the teachers will recieve a tax cut. To be honest Key is technically correct, there is no money given that it has gone to the SCF bail out, tax cuts and the Canterbury earthquake. I would conjecture that teachers were representative of the electorate in the proportion who voted National. That greedy bunch should hang their heads in shame asking for a double dip and placing their interests so far in front of the average worker.

      • Fabregas4 7.1.1

        The average wage is not a fair comparison here. I would not compare teachers say with supermarket workers. Teachers should be compared with other professional groups who study for three years at leastt- try doctors, lecturers, chemists, etc. Average professional incomes and teachers $65k may not look quite so generous. And as an aside, if you broke it down to an hourly rate, in my experience, it becomes less attractive. One last thing, the right always talks about having to pay what people could get overseas – think Telecoms boss for example. Why not teachers?

      • Tim 7.1.2

        This is utter crap. Teachers have four years of tertiary education. If you looked at the average wages of accountants, lawyers or any other professional with a similar level of tertiary education, you would find that the average wage is a lot higher than 60 – 65K. So anybody that gets a payrise is double dipping? By your insane logic farmers that had damaged property replaced and were also in SCF would also be double dipping…really????

        The average worker would benefit from ensuring that their kids receive the best education possible. Not taught by the silly teachers that didn’t work out that in Hong Kong they can earn 120k a year.

        • Bored 7.1.2.1

          Tim and Fabre, you miss my points in your rush to defend teachers position. So again, without any desire to object to what teachers are claiming which I agree is probably fair and reasonable, I said / implied:

          1. That because teachers are well above the national average wage the Key government will drive the wedge between them and lower paid workers.
          2. That the government are correct that there is no money given the pressures of SCF, earthquake, tax cuts etc and they will claim that to pay teachers more will mean more borrowing.
          3. That a large proportion of teachers probably voted National and need to look at themselves hard as they voted for tax cuts and now want pay rises as well.

          Do the above observations cause you problems?

    • Fabregas4 7.2

      From PPTA web site slightly more accurate information tahn mine.

      “This is blatant misinformation – the starting salary for a secondary teacher with four years training is $45,000 and if those teachers pass an annual appraisal based on professional performance standards, they can progress to the sum of $68,000. You do not have to be a maths teacher to see that no matter how hard you try you cannot get an average of $70,000 from those figures.

  8. Zaphod Beeblebrox 8

    The international market for scientific and engineering talent is really hotting up at the moment. The Obama administration is showering US Universities with research grants and money to recruit talented PhD and masters students and the Chinese and Koreans are also upping the R and D ante. The race is on to develop new engineering, medical, enviromental and scientific technologies as they know that is where economic prosperity will come from. And they don’t care where the scientists come from, as long as the technology is developed by their researchers. The rest of the world are struggling to keep up. Of course the most vulnerable countries to losing their best brains are the poorest who cannot afford to keep their educated. So they lose out both ways- they become stuck with and under-educated workforce using outdated technology whilst losing the people who could be helping them improve productivity and create propserity.

    Meanwhile in NZ……..we argue over whether we can pay our teachers another 1%.

  9. N0rdmeyer 9

    Tolley has been completely disingenuous on her $70k figure. This is classic National Party statistical manipulation. What she has said is that at the half-way point of their career teachers earn on average 70k. But half way through their career the vast majority of teachers are at the top of the scale. So this isn’t an average at all – it’s the top! This calculation conveniently rules out all the teachers who start teaching at about 35k, get completely pissed off about their pay and conditions and head off to Telecom, TPK, UK or Australia for a much better paid job.
    The Government has shown no interest in settling this dispute. They have put a whole lot of claw backs on the bargaining table, taking away the aspects of the collective contract which teachers have previously won (non-contact time, compensatory mechanisms for a series of large classes). They should offer the teachers 2% this year and the same next year and withdraw their claw-backs and then we would have a settlement.

  10. Giarne 10

    Let’s put some facts into the equation here (all figures as of 1 July 2009 from relevant collective agreements) as Tolley seems completely unable to know who she’s employing and how:

    A teacher with a 3 year degree starts teaching on $44,348, with a honours or 4 yr degree starting salary is $45,653. A third of the teaching population (approx 11,000 teachers) either have a diploma or higher diploma (which was what they were able to enter with at the time they entered teaching) and sit on their maximum rate of either $54,132 or $58,044. The maximum for a teacher with a 3 yr degree is $65,609, with 4 yr degree, PhD, masters or Doctorate, the top step of the scale is $68,980.

    Units are $4,000 per annum and are for roles and tasks above and beyond the regular classroom teacher. No teacher in a small school (under 50 students) even gets units yet they still do all the oversight of the curriculum and extra curricular work. There are now more units available in schools but not all teachers have them, it is hard to have an “average” for how these are distributed, each school sets its own Unit Policy and there is a lot of flexibility and a miriad of ways schools utilise them.

    Perhaps Tolley added Principals into the mix (their scale goes from $76,288 – $143,708 : note here that this top salary is for Principals where the student population exceeds 2,401, the most Primary Principals would get is around $110,ooo.

    What this proves is that Tolley desperately keeps repeating mis-understandings like this deliberately in order to ensure it becomes a truth. Any member of the media or public are able to download copies of the Collective Agreements (from either the unions website or Ministry of Edcuation) and could have checked her ridiculous figures. I suppose we trust our MPs to get their facts straight, that might be a reasonable assumption for the public to make but surely the media should be checking. Thanks to blogs like yours these figures are actually challenged.

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    Here’s another novelty chocolate to shove in your gob, New Zealand Cadbury could be seeking to make itself great again with a rumoured new release: Pineapple Trumps, a spin on its classic chocolate-encased pineapple treat and do-it-yourself tooth remover. The global confectionery manufacturer and bumbling “before” character in an infomercial, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • The coming resource war.
    During my time in the Pentagon I had the privilege of sitting down with military leaders and defence and security officials from a variety of Latin American nations. Sometimes I was present as a subordinate assistant to a senior US defence department official, sometimes as part of a delegation that ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    1 week ago
  • Māori Language Week with The Civilian
    Kia ora, Aotearoa. It’s that magical time of year. Te Wiki o te Reo Māori. In English, the week that frightens talk radio. As you probably know by now, all your favourite media outlets are participating, some more successfully than others. Stuff has changed its name to Puna for the ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Will Horizons act on climate change?
    Local body elections are coming up next month. And it looks like all Palmerston North candidates for Horizons (the Manawatu-Whanganui Regional Council) want to take action on climate change:Climate change is set to be a key issue in Palmerston North for the next three years if those wanting to get ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • BORA reform is stalled
    Eighteen months ago, the government promised to strengthen the Bill of Rights Act, by explicitly affirming the power of the courts to issue declarations of inconsistency and requiring Parliament to formally respond to them. So how's that going? I was curious, so I asked for all advice about the proposal. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Corbyn and Brexit
    As the Brexit saga staggers on, the focus is naturally enough on the Prime Minister and his attempts to achieve Brexit “do or die”. But the role played by the Leader of the Opposition is of almost equal interest and complexity. The first problem for Jeremy Corbyn is that he ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • A ditch for him to die in
    Last week, English Prime Minister Boris Johnson boldly declared that he would rather die be dead in a ditch than delay Brexit. Unfortunately for him, the UK parliament accepted the challenge, and promptly dug one for him. The "rebellion bill" requires him to ask for and secure yet another temporary ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Warning! Warning! Danger Jacinda Ardern! Danger Marama Davidson! Warning!
    Lost In Political Space: The most important takeaway from this latest Labour sexual assault scandal, which (if I may paraphrase Nixon’s White House counsel’s, John Dean’s, infamous description of Watergate) is “growing like a cancer” on the premiership, is the Labour Party organisation’s extraordinary professional paralysis in the face of ...
    1 week ago
  • Union solidarity with Ihumatao land occupation
    by Daphna Whitmore Every Sunday for the past two months unionists from First Union, with supporters from other unions, have set out to the Ihumatao land protest, put up gazebos and gas barbeques, and cooked food for a few hundred locals and supporters who have come from across the country. ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • Climate Change: The wrong kind of trees?
    Newsroom today has an excellent, in-depth article on pine trees as carbon sinks. The TL;DR is that pine is really good at soaking up carbon, but people prefer far-less efficient native forests instead. Which is understandable, but there's two problems: firstly, we've pissed about so long on this problem that ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • No freedom of speech in Turkey
    Canan Kaftancioglu is a Turkish politician and member of the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP). Like most modern politicians, she tweets, and uses the platform to criticise the Turkish government. She has criticised them over the death of a 14-year-old boy who was hit by a tear gas grenade during ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Tadhg Stopford: Why I’m standing for the ADHB
    Hi there, just call me Tim.We face tough problems, and I’d like to help, because there are solutions.An Auckand District Health Board member has nominated me for as a candidate for the ADHB, because her MS-related pain and fatigue is reduced with hemp products from Rotorua.  Nothing else helped her. If I ...
    1 week ago
  • Good little vassals
    The Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security has published their report on whether the SIS and GCSB had any complicity in American torture. And its damning. The pull quote is this:The Inquiry found both agencies, but to a much greater degree, the NZSIS, received many intelligence reports obtained from detainees who, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Who Shall We Turn To When God, And Uncle Sam, Cease To Defend New Zealand?
    Bewhiskered Cassandra? Professor Hugh White’s chilling suggestion, advanced to select collections of academic, military and diplomatic Kiwi experts over the course of the past week, is that the assumptions upon which Australia and New Zealand have built their foreign affairs and defence policies for practically their entire histories – are ...
    1 week ago
  • The Politics of Opposition
    For most of the time I was a British MP, my party was out of government – these were the Thatcher years, when it was hard for anyone else to get a look-in. As a front-bencher and shadow minister, I became familiar with the strategies required in a parliamentary democracy ...
    Bryan GouldBy Bryan Gould
    1 week ago
  • More expert comments on the Canadian fluoride-IQ paper
    The Green et al (2019) fluoride/IQ is certainly controversial – as would be expected from its subject (see If at first you don’t succeed . . . statistical manipulation might help and Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear). Anti-fluoride campaigners have been actively promoting it ...
    1 week ago
  • The return to guerrilla war in Colombia
    by Gearóid Ó Loingsigh On August 29th a video in which veteran FARC (Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia) commander Iván Márquez announced that they had taken up arms again was released. There was no delay in the reaction to it, from longtime Liberal Party figure and former president Uribe, for ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    1 week ago
  • Air New Zealand identifies this enormous plot of unused land as possible second airport site
    Air New Zealand couldn’t believe its luck that this seemingly ideal piece of real estate had so far gone entirely unnoticed. Air New Zealand’s search for a site to build a second Auckland Airport may have made a breakthrough this afternoon, after employees scanning Google satellite imagery spotted a huge, ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Redline on the Labour Party
    No-one on the anti-capitalist left in this country today puts forward a case that Labour is on the side of the working class.  There are certainly people who call themselves ‘socialist’ who do, but they are essentially liberals with vested interests in Labourism – often for career reasons. Nevertheless, there ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • New Fisk
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour’s failure
    When National was in government and fucking over the poor for the benefit of the rich, foodbanks were a growth industry. And now Labour is in charge, nothing has changed: A huge demand for emergency food parcels means the Auckland City Mission is struggling to prepare for the impending arrival ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Ardern attempts to vaccinate Clarke Gayford live on television to prove that it’s safe
    Gayford, pictured here on The Project, before things got wildly out of control. A bold public relations move by the Government to encourage parents to vaccinate their children has gone horribly wrong. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern appeared on tonight’s episode of Three’s The Project, where the plan was for her ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Has Mr. Whippy gone too far by parking on our front lawns?
    Mr. Whippy’s business model has driven it down a dark road of intimidation. Residents in major centres around the country are becoming disgruntled by the increasingly aggressive actions of purported ice cream company Mr. Whippy, who have taken to parking on people’s front lawns and doorsteps in a desperate attempt ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Cleaning up the water
    Today the government released its Action Plan for Healthy Waterways, aimed at cleaning up our lakes and rivers. Its actually quite good. There will be protection for wetlands, better standards for swimming spots, a requirement for continuous improvement, and better standards for wastewater and stormwater. But most importantly, there's a ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Fronting up
    Today I appeared before the Environment Committee to give an oral submission on the Zero Carbon Bill. Over 1,500 people have asked to appear in person, so they've divided into subcommittees and are off touring the country, giving people a five minute slot each. The other submitters were a mixed ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Politics of science – making a silk purse out of a sow’s ear
    Anti-fluoride activists have some wealthy backers – they are erecting billboards misrepresenting the Canadian study on many New Zealand cities – and local authorities are ordering their removal because of their scaremongering. Many New Zealanders ...
    2 weeks ago

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