Mana Māori truce didn’t last long

58 comments on “Mana Māori truce didn’t last long ”

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1. Bill 1

   3 April 2017 at 10:44 am

   Hmm. They agreed to not stand against each other in electoral seats. That’s the ‘truce’ (agreement).

   To say of some proposed legislation you’re opposed to that “it’s a poisonous and destructive cancer”…sorry, not seeing the problem with that, and not seeing how it’s somehow ending an agreement to not contest with one another in electoral seats.
   • marty mars 1.1

     3 April 2017 at 10:54 am

     There is no problem except in naughty minds that want to stir imo.

     It in fact is ho hum in the excitment stakes.

     Worth talking about though for the discussion of what we think is happening verses what we want to happen.
   • The Chairman 1.2

     3 April 2017 at 10:56 am

     “They agreed to not stand against each other in electoral seats”

     Yes, but clearly there was an expectation that doing so would encourage supporters of both to support the one standing. However, Hone has now threaten to pull his backing of his members doing so. Which somewhat undermines the expectation of their agreement.
   • Karen 1.3

     3 April 2017 at 10:59 am

     Yes, the agreement allows for criticism of policy.

     However, the difficulty for the Māori Party is that they they are counting on Mana endorsing their candidates in the 6 seats not being contested by Mana. Two of Mana’s previous candidates (Angelina Greensill and Annette Sykes) have signed the petition by Māori academics calling for the government not to proceed with the Te Ture Whēnua Bill in its current form.

     Te Uroroa Flavell is now in a very difficult position as he has been pushing it through in spite of widespread opposition from many Māori.
     • marty mars 1.3.1

       3 April 2017 at 11:07 am

       Yes good points. Flavell has nowhere to go, he has dug his hole, HIS mana is now on the line and being tested.
   • michelle 1.4

     3 April 2017 at 12:03 pm

     But I agree with him it is poisonous and the aim is to take more of our land greedy bastards keep you hand of our land gnats government and their crony mates who
     are milking our assets. Don’t tell us what to do with our land you thiefing pricks and they call us thieves you don’t tell the pakeha what to do with their land
2. Muttonbird 2

   3 April 2017 at 10:47 am

   Two stories recently about the health of Maori society in New Zealand.

   The first was last week when it emerged that incarceration rates for Maori have surged to record levels under this government.

   Amy Adams’ response? The go-to response for National Party ministers when faced with alarming numbers, “there’s no one silver bullet”.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11828500

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/wanganui-chronicle/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503426&objectid=11826303

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rotorua-daily-post/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503438&objectid=11826420

   The other news was that rates for Maori children in care is also now at record levels.

   New figures released on Wednesday, however, showed that the number of children in CYF custody had now risen from 5159 to 5453. That included an 8 per cent rise in the number of Maori children in care.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11829423

   Also some shit appropriation of Teo Reo for political purposes which presumabley the Maori Party must have been all over.

   http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/327033/maori-words-'helicoptered'-into-cyf-legislation

   I think it is incredibly dishonest for the Maori Party to claim they have been good for Maori in their 9 years as National Party poodles.They truth is ordinary Maori have suffered even further under this government while elite Maori have gotten fatter.

   This reflects that National Party ideology trumps Maori concerns every single time, and the socioeconomic trends we see under this right wing government, namely a rise in inequality, are also seen across Maori society and are amplified.

   What of the next generation of Maori when their numbers in state care are increasing and more of their Dads are in in prison than ever?

   The Maori party might have a few elite Iwi-business consultants who have gotten rich under this government but where is the evidence that is helping those at the bottom?

   Hope the MP gets shafted this election – it’s no less than they deserve.
   • ropata 2.1

     3 April 2017 at 12:13 pm

     What happened to Whanau Ora? The Nats have slashed everything else but pumped billions into Maori developement, but the statistics remain stubbornly dire.

     If the Nats and MP were sincere about improving Maori social outcomes, they would throw out their neoliberal BS and actually address the deep inequalities that have riven NZ for 30 years.

     FFS
     • saveNZ 2.1.1

       3 April 2017 at 2:24 pm

       +100 ropata

       The point is, has the Maori party just become a party to get capital for the 5% of Maori while pretending to care about the rest of Maori just like the Natz are a party of the 5% + cronies, while pretending to care about the rest of NZ?

       Basically I think Hone Hawawira was forced into this alliance thinking they could get on because they are both on the side of Maori, but their ideologies are so different.

       Probably even the Maori party created themselves with the right intentions but they have got corrupted and need to go.

       Labour should throw an olive branch with a deal to Hone Hawawira, he’s got more supporters than MP and his ideology is a lot more in line with Labour than MP.

       Labour seems to have a grudge against Hone and if they want to work with Maori and show they can change and work with everyone, they need to get over it, real quick.

       I feel that there’s a lot of bulllying against Hone Hawawira and he’s one of the most genuine people who wants to change things for the better.
       • DS 2.1.1.1

         3 April 2017 at 3:31 pm

         Hone is an overt racist. Why would Labour go crawling to him when they beat him last time?
     • Muttonbird 2.1.2

       3 April 2017 at 3:22 pm

       I don’t know how the Maori Party can claim to be kaupapa Maori unless kaupapa Maori means stuffing up another generation by throwing more Maori in prison and into foster homes.
       • DS 2.1.2.1

         3 April 2017 at 3:29 pm

         They’re the brown wing of the Nats, nothing more.
         • Muttonbird 2.1.2.1.1

           3 April 2017 at 3:48 pm

           They are at the moment and the entire premise of the MP was anti-Labour much like the founding of the National Party so maybe they have more in common than we think.

           That said, a party that truely had the health of ordinary Maori society as a core value could never work with a National led government, only a Labour led government because those are the core values of decent Labour policy.
     • Matthew Whitehead 2.1.3

       3 April 2017 at 3:31 pm

       I’m pretty sure the MP know this, they’re just focusing on programs they can sell to National while they’re in government.

       The issue is whether that will damage their brand enough with bills like this that it consigns them to electoral infamy or not- so far, Māori largely seem to understand and endorse their strategy, however this bill may reverse the gains they seem to have made after Labour’s botched attempt to force them out of the Māori electorates.
3. fisiani 3

   3 April 2017 at 11:15 am

   Kelvin Davis will only get back into Parliament if he wins his seat. He has already said that he will not be on the Labour list. He would be a far better MP than Hone Harawira.
   • michelle 3.1

     3 April 2017 at 12:05 pm

     really Fisiani and how would you know that is a typical pakeha view I want someone that will stand up to the greedy white man and he will (Hone)
     • Tarquin 3.1.1

       3 April 2017 at 12:37 pm

       Been to Kaitaia lately? Hone and his friends have trashed the place, if you’re looking for a cheap house and don’t mind gangs you could well fit in – particularly with your blatant racist outlook.
       • michelle 3.1.1.1

         3 April 2017 at 1:44 pm

         really Tarquin we have lived with racism in our country for 150 yrs now so its about time people like me started speaking out against red necks like you who think you are always right look at our countries our first laws were extremely racist ones that is how you colonized and assimilated us. We didn’t get to where we are ( in the prisons etc ) all by ourselves.
         Kaitaia those are some of my whanau up there and I blame our government for what is happening up there but if you want to be nasty I think you will fit in good with the KKK and the nutter running the usa
       • Red Blooded 3.1.1.2

         3 April 2017 at 1:58 pm

         Actually Tarquin, yeah I was there this morning, were you? When was the last time you were here? In the 3 years I have lived in the area I have seen approximately 3 patched gang members and a total of ONE patched gang member in Ahipara in those three years. I can remember because it is such a rarity so you can take your blatant elitist and racist outlook and shove that somewhere else thanks. There are plenty of damn fine and hard working people, of all races, living up here in the Far North, sure there are some issues of race and poverty in the area like there are in areas all over this country of ours so you can’t blame Hone for all those. Having said that if I was on that roll I would be voting for Kelvin for sure. My dilemma will be do I vote for Winston or Willow-Jean to keep out whatever numpty the Tories throw at us again.
         • Jenny Kirk 3.1.1.2.1

           3 April 2017 at 2:06 pm

           Party vote Labour, Red Blooded AND Willow-Jean. That way you’re sure to help get a govt into power with competent people who’ll do something about the mess this current govt has got us into.
         • Tarquin 3.1.1.2.2

           3 April 2017 at 4:14 pm

           I think the head hunters are behind the tinny house in Moa Street by the beach. You should get out more.
           • Red Blooded 3.1.1.2.2.1

             3 April 2017 at 6:28 pm

             And I remember driving past a gang house in Sandringham Road Kingsland many times as well, what’s your point. If you only “think” they live there they can’t be scaring you too greatly eh? I only live a few streets from there and If there is a gang house there they keep pretty well to themselves. I get out plenty thanks, and as I said, have only seen one patched gang member in town. Perhaps you should stop trolling the streets looking for boogey men.
           • michelle 3.1.1.2.2.2

             4 April 2017 at 11:12 am

             I think we have bigger problems than tinnies Tarquinn its P you should be worried about . As for living by gangs if you were Maori and applied for state housing they put you in the bronxs often your neighbours were gangs or gang families and the state servant who were mostly pakeha at the time were extremely racist they didn’t care about us or our people because we were brown and we were Maori as far as they were concerned we were housed were we belong well really! Why do you think many of our people including myself are so angry as we have had enough and are speaking out.
     • DS 3.1.2

       4 April 2017 at 4:10 pm

       Hone is a racist arsehole.
       • greywarshark 3.1.2.1

         4 April 2017 at 9:39 pm

         DS
         You defamed Hone at 3.31 on 3 April. Now you do it again.
         Are you one of his supporters trying reverse psychology to draw attention to him?. /sarc

         I think you will be getting one up yours if you don’t come up with some joined-up ideas in the near future. What is Hone doing and saying up North that has pierced your thick skull?
   • saveNZ 3.2

     3 April 2017 at 2:25 pm

     See Fisiani supports Davis, I rest my case!
   • Tiger Mountain 3.3

     3 April 2017 at 4:19 pm

     fizzyanus supports Kelvin–what a surprise

     Hone was one of the few MPs that did not support big business, he took on Tobacco and advanced unconditional Feed the Kids, he represented this country with credibility at Australia’s “Sorry Day” –he deserves to be back, and has made valid criticism of the bill
   • ropata 3.4

     3 April 2017 at 5:29 pm

     100% agree, Hone is far too divisive. I mean, Mana’s principles are OK but Hone has a massive chip on his shoulder. A brown version of Gareth Morgan.

     I saw Kelvin Davis speaking at Horeke a couple of weeks ago, was impressed with his grace and the mana he carries there.
     • michelle 3.4.1

       5 April 2017 at 2:37 pm

       john whose gone has done the most damage to nz now his mate bill is carrying on with more collateral damage and thinks we will stand by and accept more of the same I doubt it. It takes NZers 3 elections for the dumb dumbs to realize we are not going to have a brighter future that was for johns and bills mates not us the rest of the 99%
4. esoteric pineapples 4

   3 April 2017 at 11:27 am

   What sane person with the best interests of Maori at heart would vote for a party that wants to move the Maori Land Court to a government department where it can be neutered?
   • saveNZ 4.1

     3 April 2017 at 2:30 pm

     +1 esoteric pineapples
     to answer you question pick from the multi choice options..

     a) an insane party
     b) a party without the best interests of Maori at heart
     c) a party that thinks the National government knows best
     d) all of the above
5. Robert Glennie 5

   3 April 2017 at 1:09 pm

   Hone should retire from politics. Mana made a huge mistake linking with Dotcom. The kind of person Harawira is is not one I want to see in Parliament or in an elected position anywhere else.

   Hone is in it for Hone.

   Not you. Not me. Not Aotearoa.
   • Spikeyboy 5.1

     3 April 2017 at 9:51 pm

     Hone has always been in it for those that have been disempowered. Sure he made a mistake last time but I for one will be giving him my vote again this time
   • PMC 5.2

     3 April 2017 at 11:25 pm

     Do you think that about everyone you hold a different political view to? Or just those who’ve made mistakes? Either way, on your analysis, there’d be plenty of people who’d say you should be banned from voting.
   • michelle 5.3

     5 April 2017 at 2:40 pm

     but Hone didn’t sell our assets and Hone hasn’t let all the foreigners in our country to take our peoples jobs and buy up all our housing its the tories because they don’t care about mine or your mokos they only care about themselves and their own
6. michelle 6

   3 April 2017 at 1:46 pm

   and what was John key in it for Robert can you tell us was he for john or was he for the 1% of johns ?
7. Barfly 7

   3 April 2017 at 1:48 pm

   I respected Hone for such things as his food in schools bill…dam great idea . The dotcom adventure didn’t survive the gang tackle of every political party in NZ. I am disappointed with his “understanding” with the MP as I believe an attempted trade of 1 for 6 to a party happily propping up a vile National Party government is a betrayal of what Hone purported to stand for previously.
   • dukeofurl 7.1

     3 April 2017 at 2:29 pm

     Its was more a one for one trade.
     Hone’s only chance of winning was in TTK and he was really only giving up Waiariki where Annette Sykes came very close to same vote as labour., that was the seat that MP was possibly danger of losing which would have meant the end
     • Barfly 7.1.1

       3 April 2017 at 3:23 pm

       Hone’s actions were to aid the MP in 6 seats against the LP maybe the MP will still fail maybe not.
8. Cynical jester 8

   3 April 2017 at 1:52 pm

   I hope both parties fall apart. Hone is a wanker, sure he’s left but he’s still a wanker.

   Go Kelvin, I also think labour is foolish for not putting mps like Kelvin and Nanaia on the list quite idiotic imo.

   As for the maori party as far as im concerned i hope they win zero seats they’ve propped up a right wing gvt that’s impoverished kiwis of all ethnicities and are more than happy to do so again, they supported the tppa an absolute betrayal to maori and all kiwi.

   The excuse of needing to be at the table is bs the real reason is they have zero principles and as far as I’m concerned they are the maori wing of the national party
   • tc 8.1

     3 April 2017 at 5:05 pm

     +100 and if we had an actual left party, not these identity focused centrists called labour, mana wouldn’t be required.

     Let them do what tribes at war do, bring forth the attrition I say, they both leave alot to be desired so hopefully they cancel each other out and dissappear.
9. Jenny Kirk 9

   3 April 2017 at 2:09 pm

   cynical jester – Labour’s Maori MPs are standing in electorates only to shake up the Maori voters, and to make them think really hard about what/who they are voting for. Its a good strategy. They will have to make a definite choice – do they want to continue as they are doing, or do they want a change for the better !
   • Matthew Whitehead 9.1

     3 April 2017 at 3:34 pm

     It was a risky strategy and it seems to have backfired, though we’ll see for sure in the next poll or two.
     • JanM 9.1.1

       3 April 2017 at 3:41 pm

       What makes you think it has backfired?
       • Matthew Whitehead 9.1.1.1

         3 April 2017 at 9:42 pm

         The first poll after the electorate-only announcement for Labour’s Māori electorate candidates had a 3% boost for the Māori Party, which suggests that voters on the Māori roll want to get a 2-for-1 deal in the Māori electorates regardless of which way around they do it, and so they’re now going to give their electorate votes to Labour but their party votes to the MP. (Labour currently dominates the Māori Party Vote with over 80% of it going to them- if that changes they will have cost themselves a fair amount of seats just to secure those electorates, which is something of a shot to the foot)

         This may not be a long-term trend and might wear off, but right now indications are it has backfired.
         • Karen 9.1.1.1.1

           4 April 2017 at 10:05 am

           Actually Matthew the Colmar Brunton Poll was taken between 18/3 and 22/3 and mostly would have occurred at the weekend of 18/3 and 19/3. As the announcement that Labour MPS standing in Māori electorates had requested to be electorate only was on 21/3 the poll cannot possibly be an indication of a backlash.

           The TV3/ Reid poll covers some of the same period and gave the Māori Party 0.7%. The actual figure is probably somewhere in between.

           Polls are useful for trends – individual polls are not reliable.
           • Matthew Whitehead 9.1.1.1.1.1

             4 April 2017 at 11:25 am

             I agree, that’s why I called it a suggestion and said we needed to wait to see if it was a long-term trend. But at a 3% raise that would have to be a rogue poll not to be driven by something.

             And I agree that it captured only part of the necessary period. What that means is if my guess as to what’s going on there is correct, we’ll see the same trend more dramatically in the next poll, as only some of the respondents had a chance to react. (or we’ll see it roughly the same, as the news has died off, or we’ll see it not at all because it was a blip) The Reid Research poll you mention didn’t cover that period at all, it was released on the 21st, and was for the period of 10th-19th of March, so it’s actually perfectly consistent for the Māori Party to be polling at 0.7% in it.
             • Karen …

               4 April 2017 at 1:12 pm

               “The Reid Research poll you mention didn’t cover that period at all”

               It covered two of the 4 days of the Colmar Brunton.

               My argument is not so much about the worth of individual polls but that you are ascribing a reason for a jump in the polls on something that happened at the end of the polling period. Not only is the majority of polling done at weekends, it generally takes time for news to filter through to people and for them to react.
               • Matthew Whitehead …

                 4 April 2017 at 2:04 pm

                 You’re misunderstanding what I was referring to- Reid Research’s poll finished days before Labour’s strategy was announced, and had a typical Māori Party vote share- which is actually consistent with my speculation. CB’s poll actually included the relevant event and had a statistically significant spike. (ie. an increase without overlapping error bars) The fact that they overlapped time periods actually helps my point, not hurts it, as if CB’s spike was caused by something earlier, we would expect it to also show up in the Reid Research poll, which means the most likely way that my speculation is wrong would be if CB’s poll was a rogue. (which I have been quite careful to say is still a possibility)

                 Also worth noting is that most polling stays open in order to poll more Māori voters, so it’s actually reasonable to interpret events affecting specifically Māori voters as being more valid potential causes for Party Vote movements when they occurred toward the end of a poll than is generally the case. There’s a few other demographics that sometimes function this way, but Māori are the most significant individual demographic. (it’s normally an intersection they’re looking for of course, such as Māori or Pasifika women)
   • tc 9.2

     3 April 2017 at 5:08 pm

     Labour strategy has yet to provide anything but defeats since 2008, just saying.
10. weka 10

    3 April 2017 at 3:02 pm

    Harawira has never minced his words, but “a poisonous and destructive cancer” – that’s not something you say to your allies.

    Why not? He was talking about the policy not the ally right? It just sounds like HH to me. But it begs the question, is the issue here the disagreement over the policy or that HH was blunt?
    • Sabine 10.1

      3 April 2017 at 8:33 pm

      i would actually say that that is precisely the way Hone would speak to anyone.

      Expecting anything else but bluntness and outspokenness form Hone is silly.
11. Bearded Git 11

    3 April 2017 at 4:21 pm

    I heard Hone interviewed on Radio NZ the other day about the Land Reform Bill. He was extremely eloquent-I had forgotten how smart he is. He will win TTT.

    Most of the lawyers are coming out against this bill; there was an Otago Uni law lecturer/head of department interviewed on Morning Report this morning and she was against it, saying it needed a lot of further discussion.
    • Molly 11.1

      3 April 2017 at 11:43 pm

      We had a couple of speakers at our Tikanga Marae course from the Maori Land Court, who spoke about the lack of any discussion with them before Flavell put the proposals forward. There were reasons why the suggestions were going to require new legislation just to be proposed, and even more to be activated.

      As it was, the proposal that was taken to token hui and consultations around the country was not one that could be enacted. And they were not permitted to contradict the promoters even though they knew what was being said was incorrect.

      IIRC, from their point of view, (as lawyers working in Maori land disputes for many years) the proposal would allow the appropriation of land by a smaller proportional number of landowners – meaning that land could be mortgaged against and lost to all if any failure to pay came about.

      Te Ururoa promoted it as a way for Maori to benefit economically from the more efficient use of their resources (ie. land) but we’ve all heard that excuse before, have we not?
      • Bearded Git 11.1.1

        4 April 2017 at 8:40 am

        Nicely explained Molly. I heard the hui were basically power point presentations promoting the Land Reform Bill rather than a genuine discussion that started by looking at what was wrong with current law.

        I don’t trust Flavell; he is in the pocket of the Nats. This is another nail in the MP coffin. Shame really because a principled MP would have been nice to see…..and it could still be and be called Mana…..
        • michelle 11.1.1.1

          4 April 2017 at 11:15 am

          agree with you Bearded Git he (Te Ururoa) is in the pocket of the gnats and power hungry he has been selling our people down the toilet and our other NZ whanau
          • Bearded Git 11.1.1.1.1

            4 April 2017 at 11:29 am

            I just hope this is reflected at the election.

            Rumour has it the MP 4% reported in one of the recent poles has not been supported by other polls where they sit around 1%. Given their support for the “developers charter” RMA reforms that is too much.
      • greywarshark 11.1.2

        4 April 2017 at 9:45 pm

        Molly
        That explanation of the new Maori land proposal for a bill sounds similar to the unsatisfactory situation on group housing as in apartments with body corporate rules. They have representatives elected for all who seem to have power to agree to serious changes and expensive ones with no comeback from the hapless residents who hadn’t imagined the troublesome and costly commitments.

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