Nats illegally gaming the OIA process

Written By: - Date published: 8:17 am, October 16th, 2014 - 75 comments
Categories: Abuse of power, corruption, national - Tags: ,

It is clear to anyone who has read Dirty Politics that the National government illegally games the OIA process for political gain. Now we have Key’s confirmation of the fact (audio):

PM admits using delaying tactics

Sometimes we wait the 20 days because in the end government might take the view that’s in our best interests to do that.

Such delays are both arrogant and illegal.

Update:

https://twitter.com/DavidSlack/status/522465039631265793

75 comments on “Nats illegally gaming the OIA process ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Draco T Bastard 1
    16 October 2014 at 8:29 am

    I don’t suppose that comes with a 2 year or more jail time does it?

    • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1
      16 October 2014 at 8:40 am

      The RNZ report says there’s no penalty. Key is so corrupt he thinks “they did it too” is some sort of defence.

      • Tracey 1.1.1
        16 October 2014 at 8:44 am

        ifs it not illegal it must be the “highest ethical standard”…

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.1.1
          16 October 2014 at 8:58 am

          …shall, as soon as reasonably practicable, and in any case not later than 20 working days…

          Try as I might, I can find no form of words in the act that can reasonably be interpreted as “when it suits us politically”.

          • Tracey 1.1.1.1.1
            16 October 2014 at 9:04 am

            agree but no sanction, it relies on things like the cabinet manuals “highest ethical standard” … and this govt just laughs at such nonsense… until a beneficiary steals a nappy

            • Draco T Bastard 1.1.1.1.1.1
              16 October 2014 at 9:19 am

              Yep, the next left government needs to start making these things that National that are wrong but not illegal actually illegal so that we can hold the fuckers to account.

              • AmaKiwi …
                16 October 2014 at 10:16 pm

                @ Draco 1.1.1.1.1

                You don’t get it. It’s an elected dictatorship. The next Nat government will just change the law back to what it is now.

                That’s why I promote BINDING referendums that CANNOT be reversed by any parliament.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  16 October 2014 at 10:48 pm

                  I understand that that’s why I have a tendency to advocate:

                  1. Policy set by referenda that can only be undone/repealed by a greater referenda, i.e, if a policy passes by 50% referenda then it needs 51% by referenda to be repealed
                  2. That if the government tries to repeal those laws they get to go to jail, without appeal, for 21 years for treason
                  3. Total transparency: Everything that the government does, including all commercial contracts, is available for viewing online. There will be exceptions for this but they would be very few and if the government tries to abuse those exceptions then see 2.

      • shorts 1.1.2
        16 October 2014 at 9:26 am

        I wish someone would call him on the “they did it too” lines he and his govt have bandied about for 2 terms – perhaps some media type could ask him for proof previous governments did so… and then ask the obvious does that make it right follow up questions

        Key and his mob act like 12 year old kids (apologies to 12 year olds)… and well at this point polite language leaves me

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1
          16 October 2014 at 9:35 am

          The obvious follow-up response is “So you admit it then?” – turns to camera – “That was Prime Minister John Key boasting that his government systematically breaks the law.”

  2. Tracey 2
    16 October 2014 at 8:38 am

    remember when he claimed his govt would be transparent?

    30 October 2010

    “..”But personally I’ve been of the view that transparency is a good thing. As Prime Minister I’ve tried to lead that charge when it comes to transparency and on that basis I made those feelings clear.” …”

    its also of note that mbie and auckland council (lgoima) both avoid uncomfortable releases by pretending they cant find something and telling you to go to the ombudsmen, knowing that will take months or years.

    i have recently had aucklandcouncil tell me they cant find something but i know they disclosed it in a case less than a year ago…

  3. Tracey 3
    16 October 2014 at 8:48 am

    it also suggests that the govt is aware very early on to make the decision to drag it out in their interests. that suggests ministerial knowledge, parliamentary services or whoever runs oisa would not have that knowledge. all of which turns the wheel back to ministerial no surprises knowledge of slaters sis oia

  4. cogito 4
    16 October 2014 at 9:21 am

    “government might take the view that’s in our best interests to do that”.

    No mention of the interests of NZers, only his interests.

  5. Dont worry. Be happy 5
    16 October 2014 at 10:06 am

    Time for the media to start telling us this….as it is happening, not after the election…tell us what has been asked, of which Minister and how long over the legal limit the information has been denied. Keep the score. Add that score to the end of every story related to that withheld information. Invite the Minister on to explain. Every time they refuse to front, tell us and invite an opposition spokeperson on to give their take on the issue instead. Stay calm and polite. Reward appropriate behaviour. Never reward behaviour that is anti social. Be consistent. Sort of like house training puppies…

    • tc 5.1
      16 October 2014 at 10:47 am

      ‘Time for the media to start telling us this..’

      what parallel reality have you been living in, the MSM have allowed this gov’t to BS across the board for over 6 years now, it’s SOP for them or Joyce is set upon them.

  6. hoom 6
    16 October 2014 at 10:19 am

    Disgraceful.

    And they will continue with this corrupt bs which helps them get re-elected, just as they will continue with the Dirty Politics because they just got away with it completely.

  7. RazzleDazzle 7
    16 October 2014 at 11:44 am

    I worked at MSD for 10 years. Labour routinely did this too. Get over yourselves.

    • dv 7.1
      16 October 2014 at 12:26 pm

      OH well that makes it right then.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2
      16 October 2014 at 12:36 pm

      I was in the Mongrel Mob for ten years. The Black Power routinely did this too. As a right wing cretin I actually believe that’s an excuse.

    • Tracey 7.3
      16 October 2014 at 12:40 pm

      proof please otherwise you are just a tosspot interviewing your keyboard.

    • hoom 7.4
      16 October 2014 at 1:51 pm

      I am also appalled if Labour did it too.

      It should be the kind of thing overseen by a properly resourced independent watchdog with frequent public reporting on performance & non-performing heads should roll.

    • Murray Rawshark 7.5
      17 October 2014 at 2:04 am

      The difference is that at least some of us here want to get rid of anyone who does this sort of rubbish, from either side of the house. You would probably have trouble understanding that, but it’s true.

  8. SHG 8
    16 October 2014 at 12:20 pm

    I know you all really really want this to be unlawful, but it’s just not.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 8.1
      16 October 2014 at 12:33 pm

      Which is why the Chief Ombudsman flatly contradicts you. Um, who to believe, the Chief Ombudsman, or a lying piece of right wing dogshit? That’s a toughie.
      .

    • Tracey 8.2
      16 October 2014 at 12:38 pm

      it is illegal. it is breaking the oi act. I think what you might mean is it is not criminal…

    • lprent 8.3
      16 October 2014 at 12:50 pm

      It is unlawful. From memory the act specifies that OIAs are required to acted on the minimum time possible. To hold them up for the convenience of a mere politician’s convenience is not only immoral, it is likely to be illegal if pushed through a court.

  9. RazzleDazzle 9
    16 October 2014 at 1:00 pm

    …and yet – Labour did it too.

    It is unlawful, it was unlawful. But I am sick of all of your biased, hypocritical, sycophantic rantings. Stop pretending Labour isn’t just as bad as National.

    • Lanthanide 9.1
      16 October 2014 at 1:02 pm

      Key promised a higher standard.

    • Tracey 9.2
      16 October 2014 at 1:04 pm

      I worked at msd too. I think I remember you. wore colourful ties and shiny shoes?

      • RazzleDazzle 9.2.1
        16 October 2014 at 1:08 pm

        No, sorry Tracey, wrong person. I worked in WINZ to fight media fires so the Hon Ruth Dyson didn’t have to respond to media critiscism. “pay and make it go away” was her mantra. I refused. You people have no idea (or choose not to) how corrupt Labour was under Helen Clark.

        • Tracey 9.2.1.1
          16 October 2014 at 1:14 pm

          you said you said no to dyson. does that mean you thought the behaviour was wrong? if yes did you whistleblow or leak stuff to reveal your truth?

          do you think if lp did it then its ok if national does it?

          • RazzleDazzle 9.2.1.1.1
            16 October 2014 at 1:36 pm

            does that mean you thought the behaviour was wrong?

            Yes

            if yes did you whistleblow or leak stuff to reveal your truth?

            No, because – Why? The CE of SSC doesn’t do jackshit to upset his or her political masters.

            do you think if lp did it then its ok if national does it?

            answered that – no, but you lot think Labour is pristine, when it isn’t. A reality check you refuse to accept.

            [lprent: You are making an assertion about a fact. Link to or give an instance to support your assertion that Labour gamed the OIA process ‘as well” or I’ll be forced to consider it to be a just a simple lie by a moron troll.

            Adding you to auto-moderation while you hunt for one or backtrack. You get a few days to come up with one before I ban you for stupidity.

            Also read our policy so I don’t have to see you screwing up again. ]

            • srylands 9.2.1.1.1.1
              17 October 2014 at 9:36 am

              “You are making an assertion about a fact. Link to or give an instance to support your assertion that Labour gamed the OIA process ‘as well” or I’ll be forced to consider it to be a just a simple lie by a moron troll. ”

              You are being ridiculous as a moderator. I am sure you do not believe your own disingenous bullshit. You are really pretending that the Clark Government did not game the OIA process?

              [lprent: So give examples rather than just asserting. Otherwise you are just myth making. I’m getting kind of sick and tired of “.. but Labbbbooouurrr did it too!”. Put up or shut up. ]

        • Tracey 9.2.1.2
          16 October 2014 at 1:23 pm

          judith collins once said this of ruth dyson

          “… “New Zealanders understand that there are exceptional circumstances under which the retrieval of a beneficiary’s car from a tow yard, is acceptable. But they don’t understand why they should be assisting lawbreakers. 

          “This is an insult to law-abiding New Zealanders and taxpayers who are footing the bill. 

          “It is also another example of breathtaking arrogance from a Labour Minister who cannot admit she’s wrong.”  ….”

          you and I differ in that this behaviour has to stop… whoever is doing it.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 9.3
      16 October 2014 at 1:05 pm

      Then you’ll be able to link to the comment that pretends that, won’t you? No? You’re projecting your shit ethics onto everyone else? Why yes, you are.

      The only asshole apart from you who says that Labour did it too is an excuse is Dear Leader. As a Green Party voter I think it makes you look like trash.

    • framu 9.4
      16 October 2014 at 2:46 pm

      so all those comments saying that “labour did it to” isnt a good reason – for the very fact that it doesnt make it right regardless, just didnt appear on your computer?

      your accusing people of holding a position that they have already rejected – get with the program for christs sake

  10. Lanthanide 10
    16 October 2014 at 1:01 pm

    See, here’s where The Herald should be getting out their ‘Democracy Under Attack!” banner.

    • AmaKiwi 10.1
      16 October 2014 at 10:31 pm

      It’s not a democracy. It’s not just that Parliament is sovereign and can do anything it wants. There are also no checks and balances, no alternative sources of power. We have no provinces or states with their own police and prosecutors. No public protests that threaten the government of the day.

      Read Chris Trotter’s “Unfretful Voters.” In the 1951 Waterfront Dispute the Holland government was as dictatorial as Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia. And the people did NOTHING.

      http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/

  11. RazzleDazzle 11
    16 October 2014 at 1:26 pm

    I find it amusing you all assume I condone National doing it too. I don’t. I’m merely pointing out that Labour is equally morally bankrupt. A fact you delusional nutters seem to fail to grasp (I’m talking to you OAB, you abusive idiot).

    • Tracey 11.1
      16 October 2014 at 1:31 pm

      given alot of the nutters here dont vote labour you assertion is a little odd.

      I am interested in your response to my questions above.

      I voted green party in 2014… 2011 and 2008

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2
      16 October 2014 at 1:45 pm

      Yet you can’t point to a single comment (link or you’ve got nothing) to illustrate your accusation that anyone here is pretending this hasn’t happened under previous governments, nor even present any evidence that Labour were “just as bad” as you assert.

      Anecdotal evidence from news media suggests that in fact the problem has worsened under Dear Leader, who for his own part freely admits law breaking while failing to hide his cynicism.

      What I find “amusing” is how you right wing trash rush in all aggressive and accusatory, then pack a sad when no-one bends over for you. Choke on it.

      • RazzleDazzle 11.2.1
        16 October 2014 at 1:51 pm

        umad bro? You certainly seem mad. So nice of you to agree that this entire “article” is pointless, because, guess what? Labour did it too. Choke on it yourself.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.1.1
          16 October 2014 at 2:19 pm

          Oh for fucks sake don’t you get it: I know “Labour did it too”, or at least, I can find instances of National complaining about having OIA requests refused, and two official reports that more-or-less confirm certain instances since the Act was passed into law.

          However, the current government is being accused of systematic abuse of their OIA powers, whether for political attacks or to avoid releasing embarrassing information altogether, and there are enough concerns that the practice has worsened, and is so out of control that there is to be an official inquiry into the matter.

          Anyway you’ve an assertion of fact to justify for a moderator. Off you go.

          • Tracey 11.2.1.1.1
            16 October 2014 at 3:34 pm

            must have heeded your advice and is off finding evidence to come back and make a new post

            • One Anonymous Bloke 11.2.1.1.1.1
              16 October 2014 at 3:44 pm

              I’m picking increasingly querulous comments in moderation 😈

              • lprent …
                16 October 2014 at 10:01 pm

                Not that I have seen.

                However I tend to find that these days the antique troller is a bit short of breath and puffing whenever someone asks him for evidence (or else).

                No real stamina.

                While I’m pretty sure that I could find a number of instances of Labour probably / possibly gaming the timing of OIAs as well if I spent a 15 minutes looking it up on google.

                However blowhards like this chappie really don’t know what to look for, get confused by all of the long words like “official” and tend to be frightened of the derision if they get it wrong. They just prefer running their finger in a ring around their butthole and offering up their itchy dead parasites as their unassailable assertions.

                (now I have disgusted everyone with that image, I will remind you that I was a army medic many eons ago).

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  17 October 2014 at 9:18 am

                  “…a number of instances…”

                  Colin James’ article about the state of play in 2006, the Price report, a regular smorgasbord of information.

                  James quotes

                  Nicola White, a senior research fellow at Victoria University’s Institute of Policy Studies … extensive study of the OIA which included many interviews with both “requesters” for and providers (or non-providers) of official information, the culture of government has changed “fundamentally”. It is much more open and people expect it to be.

                  Oddly, that seems to undermine the assertion that Labour were just as bad.

                  Who’d’a thunk it?

                • greywarshark …
                  17 October 2014 at 9:58 am

                  lprent
                  You have an interesting background.

                • Melanie Scott …
                  12 November 2014 at 8:59 am

                  ooh yuck. Are you going to moderate yourself?

                  Actually, it did make me larf.

          • greywarshark 11.2.1.1.2
            17 October 2014 at 9:53 am

            I noticed that Guy LeS S when questioning Nat on OIA this morning, had to add ‘of course Labour did it too’ before he could delve into Nats behaviour.

            It is an annoying sidestep when an entity should be talking directly to what is being done now, and how it itself, behaved in the past, Instead there seems an illusory respect for history or tradition of government. Yet our government cares nought for retaining the past policies of history which have been treasured by citizens.

        • framu 11.2.1.2
          16 October 2014 at 2:51 pm

          well when people accuse someone – several times – of something they didnt say – despite explanations to the contrary – its common to get a bit mad

          you – are – wrong

          no one is attempting to excuse labour here – everyone is pointing out that regardless of whos in govt its bad, and that this fact makes it morally bankrupt for key or anyone else to use “labour did it to” as an excuse

          thats not denying labour did anything good or bad – its pointing out the shallow and venal excuse making of our PM to attempt to cover his own bad ethics

          please – dont make anyone else explain this to you again

          and a word of warning – if you make an accusation against whats being said in any comment thread on any site – and that accusation is denied, you better do the work of fronting with an example and explaining yourself – otherwise you will get told off pretty swiftly

    • One Anonymous Bloke 11.3
      16 October 2014 at 1:52 pm

      PS: considering I just compared Labour and National to the MM & BP, where do you get off accusing me of your behaviour?

  12. Hennie van der Merwe 12
    16 October 2014 at 2:44 pm

    They not only delay it – they also speed it up when it suits them.
    They also un-classify it when it suits them.

  13. coaster 13
    16 October 2014 at 2:49 pm

    But they did it too is a line kids use when they no they have done something wrong and got caught.

    I seem to remember nice mr key telling his mps not to get 3rd term arrogance itis, dont know how more arrogant you can get than admitting youve done wrong and not even caring or being ashamed.

    And for all the people who say labour did it too, labour hasnt been in power for 6 years, so its time to stop blaming labour for stuff that will have happened almost a decade ago by the time they get back in again.

    • Treetop 13.1
      16 October 2014 at 3:51 pm

      Because it happened before is not a defence.

    • emergency mike 13.2
      16 October 2014 at 4:11 pm

      “But they did it too is a line kids use when they no they have done something wrong and got caught.”

      Exactly. And that’s really all that should need to be said about it. What find more interesting than the fact that some RW tr0lls trying to direct the conversation towards why people here are insisting that Labour never did it too in spite of the fact that no one here is doing any such thing, is why Key has said what he did.

      He is normally quite careful and slippery with his words, why just up and casually state that his government is breaking the law? Labour never did that folks.

      He is trying to normalize dirty politics. As in ‘Yeah we break the law, and give the finger to the spirit and purpose of the OIA, but everyone knows that.’ So that people like Hager and whoever else can expose what they want, and those faithful souls who are too dumb to give a shit will keep faithfully ticking the blue box anyway.

      Hence the recourse to the infantile ‘Labour did it too’ justification that has been faithfully repeated by the faithful repeaters.

      • Tracey 13.2.1
        16 October 2014 at 4:15 pm

        jeebus, you have summed it up nicely, and that 47% dont give a shit suggests half the nation, at least have no personal ethics

      • felix 13.2.2
        16 October 2014 at 9:35 pm

        From the audio I think it’s pretty clear he was on the turps when he said it.

        • greywarshark 13.2.2.1
          17 October 2014 at 10:02 am

          I thought that the quaff de jour was meths? How did turps get into it? Is it supposed to be more powerful like a drop of the really hard stuff.

  14. Treetop 14
    16 October 2014 at 3:09 pm

    The government are not the only place which holds up an OIA request. The police can deny having had correspondence from the person applying even when they have a reference number.

    Am I correct in thinking that ministers hold information which the police do not hold?

  15. Sable 15
    16 October 2014 at 4:02 pm

    Oh well seems the sheeples like sleazy governments given the election result. So this mob should stay in office forever…

  16. coaster 16
    16 October 2014 at 4:33 pm

    We have to be fair to the people that voted national, many of them voted based on what they heard and saw in the media. Those of us who are interested see through the spin, but most people do other things with the little spare time they have.

    • AmaKiwi 16.1
      16 October 2014 at 10:41 pm

      People voted National because the economy appeared to be on a roll. “Appeared to be” because $60 BILLION we borrowed kept it humming. When the bill comes due (overseas lenders want to be repaid or rolled over at 15% interest rates) all hell will break lose and the government of the day will crash and burn. Rogernomics will look like a walk in the park.

  17. coaster 17
    16 October 2014 at 4:44 pm

    You also have to admire there campaign messages, 2008 time for change, 20111 a brighter future, 2014 steady as she goes.

    I handed out labours flyers and I cant remember what the message was, vote positive, cgt, fair go for all???. National cheat, lie and spin a damn good line while labour fights, comes up with good policys but doesnt know how to sell them and hold leaders elections.

    if it was a game of rugby labour would stop trying to hit there key playmaker, and would concetrate on defence and forcing a mistake, and then take advantage of it.

    • Murray Rawshark 17.1
      17 October 2014 at 2:21 am

      True. It’s not as if there are any other really strong players besides FJK. The Greens seem to do this much better than Labour does.

  18. Steve 18
    16 October 2014 at 6:17 pm

    This abuse of power has not been reported by TVNZ, TV3, NZ Herald or Dominion Post.

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