Open mike 02/09/2021

58 comments on “Open mike 02/09/2021 ”

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1. vto 1

   2 September 2021 at 6:28 am

   It is completely distressting how fundamentalist extremists in the USA bark at other fundamentalist extremists in, say, Afghanistan about extremism and fundamentalism …

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/09/texas-s-near-total-abortion-ban-takes-effect-after-supreme-court-inaction.html
2. Sanctuary 2

   2 September 2021 at 7:11 am

   This morning we discovered that 85% of the population support elimination as a strategy, as opposed to 85% of the MSM who don't.
   • tc 2.1

     2 September 2021 at 7:36 am

     You sum it up nicely. Flicking past TVNZ to see Seymour and Bennett on a 'game show' shows how low they can go.

     I want paid opposition members asked questions not given soapboxes for frivolity on an SOE and Bennetts keeping a talented and funny comedian from a job, because she is neither.

     TVNZ needs a top down clearout.
     • Sanctuary 2.1.1

       2 September 2021 at 8:20 am

       I think TVNZ has been pretty good in it's COVID coverage this lockdown. It's where you get a confluence of journalists writing opinion pieces, "last consumer capture" of places like the Herald and recently the-fat-nerd-trying-to-hang-out-with-the-rugby-jocks syndrome that has overtaken RNZ it really turns to custard.
     • gsays 2.1.2

       2 September 2021 at 12:54 pm

       Bennett can go lower, she was a real estate agent.
   • Andre 2.2

     2 September 2021 at 7:37 am

     Linkity-linky? A quick squiz at Stuffed and Harold didn't find anything.
     • Sanctuary 2.2.1

       2 September 2021 at 7:43 am

       It's paywalled at the Herald, but:

       https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-nz-herald-kantar-poll-shows-what-new-zealanders-think-about-elimination-strategy/LVB5RB7NN3AODM5GT4DQRJHL7Q/
       • Andre 2.2.1.1

         2 September 2021 at 7:54 am

         The snippet that pressreader displayed said 46% back elimination and another 36% back our current course until at least 70% of the population is fully vaccinated.

         Any other significant caveats and nuances?
       • AB 2.2.1.2

         2 September 2021 at 10:41 am

         This is a typical effort by the Herald at opinion-forming. The method is simple enough:

         • run numerous pieces from your stable of opinion-writers attacking a paticular Labour government policy – usually by misrepresenting that policy in various ways
         • After a few weeks/months of this effort, run a poll on that policy – in the hope that you have shifted opinion enough to have that shift show up in the poll. If the poll has the desired result, then point at the poll as confirmation that your opinion-writers were correct all along and in fact brilliantly prescient

         It appears that it might not have worked quite so well this time – though doubtless the numbers can be spun in some way and efforts can be redoubled.
   • Ross 2.3

     2 September 2021 at 8:32 am

     This morning we discovered that 85% of the population support elimination as a strategy, as opposed to 85% of the MSM who don't.

     We also discovered that the NSW Premier has conceded defeat regarding its elimination strategy. She didn't apologise for her naivete but maybe there was an implied apology in her comments.

     “No amount of government intervention or lockdown is going to get you to zero cases. … what we do have to accept is when you are in the middle of a pandemic which is impacting our nation as it has been other nations that we need to appreciate that, unfortunately, lives will be lost."

     https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-23/zero-covid-just-not-possible-gladys-berejiklian-says/100400692
   • mauī 2.4

     2 September 2021 at 8:47 am

     How do you eliminate a disease as contagious as chickenpox with a vaccine that doesn't stop transmission?
     • Macro 2.4.1

       2 September 2021 at 9:00 am

       Maui please go away and learn how the word "eliminate" is used in a medical situation. It is not used in the way you obviously think it is.
     • Pingao 2.4.2

       2 September 2021 at 9:03 am

       We've done it before and a few other countries and regions have had a fair crack at it. The usual tools include masking, social distancing, tracking and tracing, border restrictions, lockdowns/restrictions on gathering and movement, quarantine and vaccinations (and in my opinion, also leadership, communication and widespread cooperation) . It is harder this time for us this time because of the variant.

       EDIT and a well resourced modern health system can be added as an essential tool.
       • Patricia Bremner 2.4.2.1

         2 September 2021 at 10:59 pm

         Yes, though we are easily weary of any restrictions. We are actually rather spoiled, and thinking of others has to be the new habit which grates some folk.
     • Bearded Git 2.4.3

       2 September 2021 at 9:17 am

       Everybody in NZ should listen to this from RNZ this morning. An epidemiologist in Victoria (Professor Blakely) is now resigned to the delta virus about to run out of control-up to 2000 cases a day-in Victoria where up to this point in time he had thought it could be eliminated. Listen to the tone of his voice.

       He makes specific references to NZ, and in particular the similarities between South Auckland and the communities in Melbourne where Delta has proven impossible to stop.

       It starts at 8.39am.

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/20210902

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018810719

       https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018810719/covid-19-victoria-ditches-elimination-strategy

       [direct permanent link added – weka]
       • Treetop 2.4.3.1

         2 September 2021 at 9:58 am

         The Delta strain has been the deciding factor in NSW and in Victoria.

         Once Covid mutatons become highly infectious, contact tracing has limits and locations of transmission such as essential services cannot be avoided.
       • Anker 2.4.3.2

         2 September 2021 at 10:26 am

         Bearded Git, that is quite frightening about Delta.
         • Bearded Git 2.4.3.2.1

           2 September 2021 at 10:37 am

           Agreed Anker.
       • weka 2.4.3.3

         2 September 2021 at 11:48 am

         BG, if you click on the item title on the RNZ page and then open that and copy and paste the link it will be the one with the interview details and the audio 👍
     • RedLogix 2.4.4

       2 September 2021 at 11:42 am

       Indeed. Listening to some very recent announcements from the UK from senior medical people, it's clear they've realised that Delta means there will be no herd immunity, either natural or vaccine induced.

       Essentially we should start thinking in terms of everyone getting it sooner or later. That implies doing whatever you can to improve your odds when it happens.

       And Delta is not the last variant – already news is filtering out around a dangerous new one in South Africa. We're all about to get an education in biological evolution.
       • roblogic 2.4.4.1

         2 September 2021 at 12:51 pm

         Depressing. I for one am a fan of Fortress NZ. But I think you're right.

         Vaccines improve your chances a lot, so let’s jab jab jab
       • Anne 2.4.4.2

         2 September 2021 at 12:51 pm

         We're all about to get an education in biological evolution.

         In fact we're all going to be biologists before this pandemic leaves us – at least in a pandemic form.

         Not a bad outcome actually.
       • aj 2.4.4.3

         2 September 2021 at 12:57 pm

         news is filtering out around a dangerous new one in South Africa

         Latest is that this variant has a growth rate disadvantage to D, and therefore may not take over from D

         https://twitter.com/TWenseleers/status/1433128109738545153
       • francesca 2.4.4.4

         2 September 2021 at 1:09 pm

         And if as a nation we want to be able to withstand new variants and new pandemics, we would do well to address issues around housing, poverty, access to higher education, whatever brakes on unhealthy food we can apply and access to affordable good quality food .

         All of that affects health at the grass roots level and gives us all a fighting chance. We can no longer afford to have large groups of people cut adrift.
         • roblogic 2.4.4.4.1

           2 September 2021 at 4:45 pm

           Indeed, laissez faire small govt neoliberalism is useless in the face of an existential crisis, and the pandemic has exposed just how irresponsible and sclerotic are those nations subscribing to free market bullshit. they DGAF about the deaths of multitudes
     • McFlock 2.4.5

       2 September 2021 at 4:49 pm

       By studying epidemiology and public health for many years in order to put yourself in a position to provide competent, evidence-based, and practical advice to decision makers so they can develop policies likely to achieve that objective (at least at a local level) when implemented by a competent and dedicated public service.

       Rather than losing one's shit and assuming all resistance is futile (except snake oil, that'll save us).
     • Incognito 2.4.6

       2 September 2021 at 5:00 pm

       That’s quite a claim there about contagiousness of Covid-19 vs. chickenpox, so please provide evidence for it, which you have carefully checked for validity, i.e., ‘fact checked’ yourself.

       Did you know that we have successful elimination strategy for measles? Did you know that measles is more contagious than Covid-19 or even chickenpox?

       Did you know that smallpox was eradicated without reaching herd immunity?

       Did you know what the main tool was to achieve those two awesome feats?
     • Drowsy M. Kram 2.4.7

       2 September 2021 at 6:19 pm

       Once NZ 'pivots' away from its COVID-19 elimination strategy there's no going back, so why are some so keen for the team to throw in the towel? Smacks of match-fixing. Heck, QLD, SA, WA, NT and TAS have stamped on and kept COVID out so far.

       Sure, NZ can't sustain a Covid elimination strategy forever, but imho it would be prudent to stick with that plan until >85% of Kiwis 12+ are fully vaccinated. That would give our nurses and doctors at least a fighting chance.

       ‘Elimination is the best strategy for us’: Ardern defends NZ’s Delta approach

       Asked during a daily update on coronavirus what she thought of criticism from Prime Minister Scott Morrison and Treasurer Josh Frydenberg that the Delta variant can’t be “eliminated”, Ardern insisted elimination was the most sensible strategy until New Zealand is fully vaccinated.

       “Delta is different; no one is denying that,” Ardern said, referring to the highly transmissible strain of coronavirus that has caused outbreaks both in Australia and New Zealand.

       But she said New Zealand will not change its approach until its population is vaccinated.

       “Elimination is the best strategy for us while we’re vaccinating people and then we’ll continue to look at all of the evidence going forward,” she said.

       Admirable, imho, apart from the ubiquitous and superfluous "going forward".
       • Andre 2.4.7.1

         2 September 2021 at 6:47 pm

         I'm wary of a target like >85%. We may never get there, and there may even be some amongst us that would avoid getting vaccinated to try to game putting off achieving that threshold.

         I'd be thinking more along the lines of: we're giving out over 50,000 first doses a day (7 day average) right now, so when that rate drops to a quarter (12,500 first doses a day 7 day average) and anyone that wants a vax can get an appointment within a week at their nearest provider, then we can reasonably say everyone that wants it has had a reasonable opportunity to get it. So eight weeks from that point (6 week gap plus 2 weeks after second shot) would then be reasonable to move to the next strategy.

         With approval for 5 to 11 year olds likely coming in the November-ish timeframe, to me it looks like that reasonable "move on to the next strategy" date will be around March-ish next year.

         For the sake of our medical system and especially the frontline people in that system, I hope like hell we're at >85% when we get to that point, but I fear we will be quite short of that.

         But I doubt the government will be able to hold out that long against mounting pressure to open up.
         • Drowsy M. Kram 2.4.7.1.1

           2 September 2021 at 7:16 pm

           I'm wary of a target like >85%.

           Fair enough Andre. >85% is aspirational and arbitrary, but I'm wary of setting a lower target. Imho setting a plausible if high target gives NZ a better chance of achieving what we need, but I could be wrong.

           There will no doubt be considerable pressure on the government to set a well defined target, and if they succumb to that pressure then there will be much debate as to whether that target is appropriate and/or achievable.

           We're all getting impatient – if setting a target makes a rod for the government's back, then maybe it's best not to set one at all, and just go with 'once everyone who wants to be is fully vaccinated' plus three weeks? Or:

           …until New Zealand is fully vaccinated.
3. Herodotus 3

   2 September 2021 at 9:32 am

   Have a thought to our frontline workers, food banks, etc out there carrying a great load to enable us all to get thru this. But what happens when they are left burnt out and totally exhausted ? How will they beable to regather themselves rest up and for how long without the ability to rest up can they continue ? But in saying that I still give my thanks and when I see those in the park I say thanks and hope that something good happens to them today.
   • Foreign waka 3.1

     2 September 2021 at 9:50 am

     Don't worry, in reality not a lot of people really care about that until they are affected directly, i.e. hospital care. I am an essential worker and I can tell you from getting through this now the second time around the stress shows when the pressure comes off. This time is a bit different from the first one. Insofar as that the first time around I felt an urgency and a need to help everywhere. This time around, I do what I can and have reduced my hours so that I have time to recover. I was surprised how much this has affected my health, my energy levels and compassion. My last holiday was 2 years ago and I am not working from home. I am glad that I get letters about well being. Yep, that will do. But thank you for your kind words, it is appreciated.
   • Treetop 3.2

     2 September 2021 at 10:12 am

     I went for a walk yesterday around the perimeter of a supermarket. I was not impressed as I saw approx 50 masks in the car park and on the foot path and several rubber gloves. Supermarket workers are putting up with behaviour which disrespects how difficult their job has become. This can be said for other frontline workers as well. The volumes of people through a supermarket has probably increased due to other outlets being closed or contactless pick up.
     • Treetop 3.2.1

       2 September 2021 at 1:05 pm

       I needed to be more clear about the masks and rubber gloves. They were discarded on the ground and people could walk on them.
4. Foreign waka 4

   2 September 2021 at 9:42 am

   And 3 students fly around the country and "did not know or were not told" that they cannot do this. Please unsubscribe these idiots from any Uni and class because they seem to be illiterate, not ready for higher learning and certainly incapable of showing responsible behavior towards a whole nation. I for one have absolutely no patience left for people like that who endanger a whole population and come up with ridiculous excuses. They should be fined and send home.
   • francesca 4.1

     2 September 2021 at 10:26 am

     She said she did not deliberately break the rules and the saga had been "upsetting"

     Family and the university are "supporting" her

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126256173/student-who-breached-covid-lockdown-restrictions-never-told-of-rules-or-checked-before-flying

     For Christs sake, when did young people become so oblivious and fragile
     • Pingao 4.1.1

       2 September 2021 at 1:01 pm

       That was my first reaction as well but then thinking back, I was quite oblivious as a young person (and still am in some situations) and would also probably have felt bad once i had realised my error. They probably expected the airport system to stop them travelling if it was in breach.
     • gsays 4.1.2

       2 September 2021 at 1:10 pm

       While not directly answering the question of fragility in youth, Class Action Park is a doco I thoroughly recommend.

       https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/stuff-to-watch/300396270/class-action-park-jawdropping-neon-doco-exposes-us-most-dangerous-attraction

       In the film there are lots of '80s teens congregating, drinking and engaging in high risk activities. Not a single adult in sight let alone concerned.
     • Tony 4.1.3

       2 September 2021 at 3:58 pm

       The article said she was visiting Family in Auckland, so no one in that bubble knew the rules either .. I don't buy it ..
       • Foreign waka 4.1.3.1

         2 September 2021 at 4:50 pm

         Do those idiots actually understand that everybody is being confined and some end up in hospital, with hopefully few in ICU. This is not a prank and it certainly is not "humanitarian". Another article of a guy who escaped quarantine after testing positive. His assertion " I have no symptoms". I think it's too late, the whole rigmarole of isolation etc. is becoming a farce. So much pussyfooting, no consequences. No one will follow rules if it doesn't matter whether you do. Slap on the wrist and lets get spreading.
5. pat 5

   2 September 2021 at 11:07 am

   Oops

   https://www.interest.co.nz/index.php/rural-news/112050/wednesday-government-lost-control-ets-speculators-has-big-implications-and

   "Minister Shaw must now be squirming at the way he has lost control of the ETS steering levers. There will be serious discussions in coming weeks between the Minister and his officials as to how the Government can get back control of the levers"
   • Gypsy 5.1

     2 September 2021 at 11:25 am

     "The key event setting up the opportunity to make some big money occurred on 18 August when James Shaw in his role as Climate Change Minister advised that the minimum auction price for a NZU would rise to $39.32 by 2026, and the maximum price would rise to $115.10. These announcements removed much of the speculative risk and increased the potential for windfall profits. Also, the underlying message was clear that the Government was going to use the ETS to drive behaviours. It was all on!"

     "Ooops" is an understatement
   • Gypsy 5.2

     2 September 2021 at 12:21 pm

     Hi Pat. You posted a question to me about housing affordability on another thread. My apologies I can't reply directly to that (no 'reply' link visible?), so i have replied at the end of that thread.
6. Tricledrown 6

   2 September 2021 at 11:52 am

   We have Collins and Seymour rabbiting on about why the South Island should be at level 2 .

   We have to look across the ditch to see how easy Delta spreads .Truck drivers driving interstate delivering essential goods etc, We have the same possibilities here the whole country needs to be extra vigilant.

   Make no mistake our country is at War with Covid Delta to have politicians undermining scientific advice from our health officials for cheap political gain is tantamount to treason.
   • JanM 6.1

     2 September 2021 at 12:05 pm

     Agreed – it is very cynical of them to keep taking misinformed pot shots at a government working so hard in a dangerous crisis when they well know there is no chance of them having to put their money where their mouths are. Cowardly and self- interested!
     • Treetop 6.1.1

       2 September 2021 at 4:53 pm

       Has National ever performed well during a crisis when in government or when in opposition?
   • Poission 6.2

     2 September 2021 at 12:08 pm

     South Island could move to level 2,unfortunately we have direct flights from delta land.

     https://www.christchurchairport.co.nz/travellers/flights/arrivals-and-departures/
   • roblogic 6.3

     2 September 2021 at 12:49 pm

     One way of stopping movement between the islands: drive the Picton train into the sea 🙂
   • Foreign waka 6.4

     2 September 2021 at 4:54 pm

     This makes me laugh. The country is not at was with Delta, it seems rules cannot be enforced. People escape quarantine, jump on planes etc. Its like a "lets spread" party. Who cares what the opposition says right now, the issue at hand needs to be dealt with.
7. Tricledrown 7

   2 September 2021 at 12:54 pm

   Ironic robologic as the shunting train was driver less.i can sea where your coming from robologic
   • CrimzonGhost 7.1

     4 September 2021 at 11:15 pm

     controlled by a remoteControl operator who was on autopilot LOL …he forgot Aratere not berthed due to vivid service withdrawal/reduction.

     [Changed your user name to the approved one. Please be more careful next time]
8. gsays 8

   2 September 2021 at 2:00 pm

   Excellent, that line has no pier.
   • roblogic 8.1

     2 September 2021 at 2:11 pm

     let's not go down that track!
     • Adrian 8.1.1

       2 September 2021 at 2:19 pm

       Lemmings…
   • Shanreagh 8.2

     2 September 2021 at 2:29 pm

     'This train got the disappearing railroad blues'……..

     My excuse with that line, to post the great song it comes from – City Of New Orleans by Arlo Guthrie.
     • Stephen D 8.2.1

       2 September 2021 at 5:00 pm

       Ahhh…

       Alice’s Restaurant. One of the greats.

       https://youtu.be/m57gzA2JCcM
9. Ad 9

   2 September 2021 at 4:32 pm

   Ahhh the joys of economic growth in a pandemic.

   Gross Domestic Product just loves all that taxpayer money spent shoring up massive disasters like COVID19.

   So how did Australia's economy grow in the middle of a pandemic?

   https://www.theage.com.au/please-explain/how-did-the-economy-grow-in-the-middle-of-a-pandemic-20210902-p58o3g.html

   "The stronger than expected results came on the back of state government spending on hospitals, railways and roads, federal government vaccine stockpiling and households continuing their COVID-era cash splash on things like renovations."

   We'll get to a measure of our own as soon as Treasury does another quarterly update.

   Do we get to call that sick growth?
10. Ad 10

    2 September 2021 at 4:39 pm

    Minister of Racing Grant Robertson has come out with a warning for the Greyhound Racing industry that they are on notice of closure, and are essentially hiding all their worst practices:

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/government-puts-greyhound-racing-on-notice-after-review-into-industry/YPBRFMNUMWNBTX4YE7EVQDRBDQ/

    Personally I am with Chloe Swarbrick on this one. Close them all down.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300284720/chle-swarbrick-greyhound-racing-is-cruel-and-we-must-end-it-now

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