Open mike 03/09/2015

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1. Morrissey 1

   3 September 2015 at 6:29 am

   Jim Mora reckons Europe might be suffering “compassion overload”;
   Is he an appropriate person to make such a remark?
   The Panel, Radio NZ National, Wednesday 2 September 2015, 4:45 p.m.
   Jim Mora, Susan Hornsby-Geluk, Max Ritchie

   humbug n. 1. the quality of falseness or deception; 2. a person who is not what he or she claims or pretends to be; impostor; 3. a boiled lolly.

   All this strife in the Middle East and Africa means that the refugee situation is getting worse. Is the problem that we Europeans and Kiwis are just too darned compassionate? In fact, so compassionate that we are suffering from “compassion overload”?

   Well, that’s what Jim Mora thinks might be the trouble…..

   MAX RITCHIE: New Zealanders are compassionate, caring people. Ahh, we’ve got, y’know, I was talking earlier on about the nature of New Zealanders, we DO care. But let’s do it properly.

   JIM MORA: [deep intake of breath to indicate moral seriousness] I take your point about the, um, humanitarian crises that are ignored, that aren’t to do with Europe. But, ahh, the current flow is surely a humanitarian crisis for all those poor people trying to hop across the razor wire and—

   MAX RITCHIE: Of course it is. Of course it is. But we had exactly the same size, ahhhh, last year, the year before, the year before that and the year before that.

   JIM MORA: Did we?

   MAX RITCHIE: Oooh yeah. This isn’t new, people affected by war, there were people flooding out of countries in Africa ten and twenty years ago, it was just as great as this, but they weren’t going to Europe, that’s the difference.

   JIM MORA: I’ll get Professor Al Gillespie’s take on your opinion too, but before I do, Susan what do YOU think?

   SUSAN HORNSBY-GELUK: Oh it seems that, um, seven hundred and fifty refugees a year for New Zealand is way too few. I mean, we’ve had that number apparently for so many years that it was, you know, the same when we had, y’know, two million people, so it does need to increase. Whether it needs to increase immediately, well yes, I think there is more a symbolic relevance there than a practical one because I don’t think the people from Europe will make it this far, but I think symbolically everyone needs to be doing their bit.

   JIM MORA: Okay. Professor Al Gillespie, an expert on international law from the University of Waikato and pro-vice chancellor of research. Al, good afternoon.

   PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: Good afternoon, Jim.

   JIM MORA: A few things to ask you. First of all, I mean, the point of that texter, how do we line up against other countries? I mean, because China actually does take refugees of a sort, doesn’t it, North Koreans for example.

   PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: It takes a few North Koreans and it took a few in the Vietnamese war as well. But both China and India, which are the two big powerhouses in the region, are now playing a very political game and not taking many more because they don’t want to upset their neighbors. The difference with China and India is that China signed the 1951 refugee convention but India hasn’t. But with regards to the Middle East, China very much sees this as a problem that the West’s caused and therefore one the West should solve.

   JIM MORA: Do you buy that or would, um, [weary exhalation of breath] do you consider it morally reprehensible?

   PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: I think we need to see it from the point of human suffering. We’ve all got a responsibility here because these people have got no options, no alternative. And there’s a difference here between refugees and migrants. The migrants are just people who are looking for a better economic lifestyle, and there’s no debate that these people should be pushed back to the countries that they came from. But for refugees, they are applying because ultimately someone’s trying to kill them, or because their human rights have been severely degraded.

   JIM MORA: I used the word “migrants” on air yesterday—it’s been used a lot by media coverage—and was told off by listeners who said, you know, the people in Hungary are refugees. So what ARE they, in your view?

   PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: Some are refugees, some are migrants. But it’s not just the ones coming across from the Middle East at the moment. There are also people coming up from North Africa where there IS no conflict in certain parts, or also they’re coming from Kosovo or certain parts of the Balkans, and again these are migrants, not people fleeing for fear of their life.

   JIM MORA: [long, deep intake of breath] Is Europe—because Max’s argument is “it was always thus, or it’s been thus for a while”—is Europe suffering compassion overload now? What do you reckon?

   PROFESSOR AL GILLESPIE: I think there is a limit to our empathy. He’s partly correct on one point….

   I could keep transcribing this, but I just cannot bear it any longer. I am sure that I am not the only listener who was appalled to hear Jim Mora, of all people, chuntering on about “compassion overload”. Over the last ten years, Mora has showed precious little hint of any compassion at all, leave alone “compassion overload”. Just over a year ago he and a couple of sneering National Party pricks, Chris Wikaira and David Farrar, were chuckling at the fate of War Criminals’ Enemy No. 1….

   Uh, Julian Assange. The press conference at the Ecuadorian Embassy. He’s leaving, weee-e-e-e-lll, n-n-n-not really, well not right now….And he’s very short of Vitamin D. You’d think there’d be a courtyard where he’d get some sun of an afternoon wouldn’t you. Cos he’s appeared on a balcony before, when he’s made his semi-papal appearances.”

   David Farrar seemed to be tickled pink at Mora’s display of sparklingwit, and added his own twist of the knife:

   Well he IS very blond! So, ha ha!, maybe he’s not one that can handle the sun too much!”

   http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20082014/#comment-869959
   • miravox 1.1

     3 September 2015 at 7:03 am

     I’m appalled if this transcript is what passes for insightful commentary. Who is Max Ritchie and why should I pay any attention to what he, or Mr Mora thinks?

     But yeah – NZ can ‘do it properly’, to a degree, by doubling the refugee quota – right now!

     Compassion overload Pfft. – certainly doesn’t extend to the Prime Minister and his party faithful (I’d love to see someone break rank). Good on the government support parties for not brushing aside the idea of a quota increase.
     • Paul 1.1.1

       3 September 2015 at 7:13 am

       I stopped listening to Mora a while back.
       His programme is an utter disgrace.
       • tc 1.1.1.1

         3 September 2015 at 1:00 pm

         Mora’s panel is another vehicle in the Dirty Politics fleet and a good example of the depths RNZ has sunk to under Griffins stewardship.
   • John Shears 1.2

     3 September 2015 at 10:05 pm

     Boring why not just a link with a brief preamble?
     • Morrissey 1.2.1

       4 September 2015 at 4:29 pm

       Boring why not just a link with a brief preamble?

       And what is wrong with the occasional magnum opus, may we ask?
2. Tautoko Mangō Mata 2

   3 September 2015 at 7:07 am

   Climate action tracker: “New Zealand’s proposed 2030 INDC target is not on a direct path towards its 2050 goal, which is, in itself, inadequate.”
   See the graphs and full report:
   http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/newzealand

   SHAME!!!!
3. Tautoko Mangō Mata 3

   3 September 2015 at 7:23 am

   How can the Labour Party support deep sea oil drilling in the light of the Climate Change information?
   I challenge them to revisit their stance.

   This support for further oil exploration plus not coming out directly with No to TPPA is turning off more support than it is gaining.
   • marty mars 3.1

     3 September 2015 at 7:58 am

     Yes I agree – Labour are out of line on this. Shows how serving two masters is just not doable. Funny even commenters like draco the bastard want us to keep drilling, keep digging and sucking – got to keep their endofdays lifestyle going I spose and it is so much easier to say “do as I say not as I do”.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1

       3 September 2015 at 10:30 am

       And, as you well know but have ignored, I put very strict conditions on that mining and drilling.
       • marty mars 3.1.1.1

         3 September 2015 at 11:04 am

         yep you do and what I said is true too.
         • Draco T Bastard 3.1.1.1.1

           3 September 2015 at 11:44 am

           No, not even close.
           • marty mars 3.1.1.1.1.1

             3 September 2015 at 11:52 am

             you said “and” so don’t try and back out now – be proud of your wish to opencast mine our natural resources – fuck you might even get a knighthood buddy.
             • weka …

               3 September 2015 at 11:56 am

               You could each say what you actually believe yourselves, might save some time and aggro. Just a thought.

               Myself, I don’t think all mining is the same. With deep sea oil drilling, even if we can make a good case for using the oil ourselves for good purpose (eg to transition off FF), and we can justify the emissions of that, there is still the risk issue of where the mining is happening and the impact of ‘accidents’. Accidents which I think are inevitable now given the pressures coming on with Peak Oil.

               Mining in National Parks should be completely off limits because those ecosystems are far more important than the finite resource we can extract from them.

               Other mining I think is case by case. We should be getting to the point of not taking anything out of the earth except rarely, but all of us, including those very opposed to mining, still use and rely on metals and oil every single day. Some of that use is critical, but much of it is simply because of the lifestyles we are used to. So I don’t think mining is that simple.
               • marty mars …

                 3 September 2015 at 12:36 pm

                 “but all of us, including those very opposed to mining, still use and rely on metals and oil every single day. Some of that use is critical, but much of it is simply because of the lifestyles we are used to.”

                 Isn’t that line of thinking just a cop out for everything – we can’t say don’t do something because our society and us uses the product or by-product – so it is an always perpetuating business as usual.

                 Oh how can you be a vegetarian when you wear leather shoes type of argument
                 • weka …

                   3 September 2015 at 1:18 pm

                   I didn’t say we can’t do anything 🙂 Why would you think that?
                   • marty mars …

                     3 September 2015 at 1:22 pm

                     I don’t know – feeling a bit put out today – think I’ll sit the rest of the day out 🙂

                     I feel quite agitated – that image of the child dead on the beach, key fucking going on like he gives a shit about anyone other than himself – grrrr
                   • weka …

                     3 September 2015 at 1:28 pm

                     yeah, I didn’t look at the picture, and as a general rule I don’t listen to Key.

                     All I was saying was we activist types need to go a bit deeper with the solutions. No mining is a starting point, but I want to see how we are going to do that.

                     Hope your afternoon is good to you 🙂
             • Draco T Bastard …

               3 September 2015 at 5:08 pm

               Nope, still not even close. In fact, I’d say that you’re seriously misrepresenting everything that I’ve said on the matter.
               • marty mars …

                 3 September 2015 at 6:38 pm

                 If I have I will concede and say sorry..
                 • Draco T Bastard …

                   3 September 2015 at 9:34 pm

                   Well, I suggest you look to anywhere where I’ve supported open cast mining.
                   Also, deep sea drilling.
                   Then you should probably look for where I’ve said that BAU can continue.

                   Once you’ve failed to find any of that you should say sorry.
                   • marty mars …

                     3 September 2015 at 10:03 pm

                     I haven’t looked but I’ll take you at your word – I am sorry.
                   • Draco T Bastard …

                     3 September 2015 at 10:10 pm

                     Apology accepted.
4. Paul 4

   3 September 2015 at 7:35 am

   When war criminals Blair and Bush illegally invaded Iraq in 2003, they destroyed a country.

   Kids washing up dead on beaches in Europe 12 years later are just another consequence of their actions.

   Britain and the US are responsible for this humanitarian catastrophe. And they refuse to stop warmongering ( Ukraine, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan) or look after the refugees they created.

   NZ is new to the game, although had our bankster leader Key been PM in 2003, we would have been slavishly following US orders. That we have money to send soldiers to Iraq to cause more misery and destruction, yet have no money for more refugees, shows that we have sunk to the moral abyss of the US.

   Shame on Key and his US lackey government.

   http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/02/shocking-image-of-drowned-syrian-boy-shows-tragic-plight-of-refugees
   • marty mars 4.1

     3 September 2015 at 7:54 am

     I agree with most of that, and

     those war criminals are just the tip of course – behind them the graymen who organise and reap the profits.

     This country is not new to the game imo, we are just good at pretending

     I have read about the many people who are trying to help this crisis, ordinary people who realise that they could just as easily be on the other side of the razor wire – people do care and they are trying to help imo

     meanwhile here in our I-so-late little island some rejoice at our distance from these events and no doubt they and their crony mates would wail tears if bodies of 3 year olds started washing up on our beaches – do you want the good news or the bad news?
5. marty mars 5

   3 September 2015 at 8:07 am

   Wicked – just watched 30, yes thirty, Tui hanging around in a flowering cherry tree – good start to the day.

   They all looked as Robin interprets them – fierce, direct, beautiful.
   http://redartgallery.com/collections/robin-slow/products/untitled
   • maui 5.1

     3 September 2015 at 9:45 am

     I see that a couple of times a year here on flowering kowhai trees. It’s only started in recent times, and since the neighbouring reserve started getting proper pest control. Fantastic sight.
   • Ad 5.2

     3 September 2015 at 10:25 am

     I used to live in Days Bay in Wellington and there were a great series of Kowhai around there. At this time all the Bellbirds in the ranges behind us would come down and have a grand old cacophonous time.

     Mind you I’ve never seen 30 Tui anywhere, nice! Great time to feed them.
     Haven’t even seen that many at once here in Titirangi.
6. half crown 6

   3 September 2015 at 8:25 am

   I have got to agree there Marty, We have a favourite spot we go to regularly in the spring . One great big row of bloosom trees I don’t know what, and this time of year it is loaded with these birds. Can sit there all the afternoon watching and photographing.
   I like the art work, magnificent.
   • tc 6.1

     3 September 2015 at 1:02 pm

     Peach Parade in akl looks magnificent when the blossoms are out, enjoy it now before the racecourse gets its way and chucks 12-15 storey blocks on the steeplechase track.
7. vto 7

   3 September 2015 at 8:31 am

   Federated Farmers really seriously genuinely need to deepen their thoughts and analysis as they simply get things wrong time and time and time again…

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/71665796/environment-southland-airs-frustration-with-federated-farmers

   Here this time Fed Farmers Southland president Allan Baird reckons this …………. “”The council has got to try and steer a middle ground between what farmers want, what iwi wants, what Fish & Game want and what other people who use the rivers want.””

   Nothing could be further from the truth. Allan Baird has rocks in his head if he thinks whoever sticks their hand up and demands something is entitled to it…. what a frikkin’ loophead … His understanding of the regional council and its obligations is completely wrong and is woeful to the point of being harmful to Fed Farmers (they come across as idiots).
   • Draco T Bastard 7.1

     3 September 2015 at 10:38 am

     Allan Baird has rocks in his head if he thinks whoever sticks their hand up and demands something is entitled to it…

     That does seem to be the default setting for a lot of people these days. Our economic system has divorced people from the reality of scarce resources.
8. NZSage 8

   3 September 2015 at 8:44 am

   Politically motivated SPAM?

   The CEO of an iconic NZ Company supporting privatisation of our healthcare service.?

   Apparently this email has been sent to all Southern Cross members by Peter Tynan the CEO of Southern Cross: http://tinyurl.com/prnhjv3

   No surprise where his loyalties lie on this issue but using his organisations membership list to promote a political issue seems a little naive to me.
9. Tautoko Mangō Mata 9

   3 September 2015 at 8:58 am

   Wouldn’t it be ironic if Big Tobacco stopped the TPPA passing through the US Senate because it was excluded from having the rights to sue states under the ISDS system!

   http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/could-tobacco-carveout-kill-tpp/
   • Tautoko Mangō Mata 9.1

     3 September 2015 at 5:11 pm

     The latest TPPA news sounds promising!

     1 .”Canada scuttles Australia’s TPP bid”
     ….., it looks as if the TPP could finally be ‘dead and buried’ – a view confirmed today via The Australian Dairy Farmer, which claims that Canada’s refusal to give ground on dairy protection has helped scuttle the deal:”
     http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2015/09/canada-scuttles-australias-tpp-bid/
     and
     http://adf.farmonline.com.au/news/magazine/industry-news/general/canada-dairy-protection-hurts-tpp-bid/2742090.aspx

     2. “As TPP Grinds To A Halt, Asian Countries Start Focusing On Rival Trade Agreement RCEP – See more at: http://www.theasianews.net/index.php/sid/236343969#sthash.z44FnNEK.dpuf
     Australia has focussed more on the US-led TPP in recent months on the basis that it would set important new principles for 21st century commerce in areas including services and regulation but the government now appears to be less confident of any swift conclusion to the TPP.

     A participant in the meeting said China appeared to be seizing the opportunity to bring the RCEP to a conclusion after it had been seen to be languishing. [Australia’s trade minister] Robb supported the Chinese objective of pushing for a conclusion.

     The article also notes that RCEP has a big advantage in that it is not trying to define an ambitious set of new trading rules, as TPP is, but instead is merely attempting to harmonize existing trade agreements among RCEP’s 16 nations, which also include another major economy absent from TPP — India. The Financial Review column concludes with another small but telling indicator that Asian interest may be shifting away from TPP and towards RCEP:”
     http://www.infowars.com/as-tpp-grinds-to-a-halt-asian-countries-start-focusing-on-rival-trade-agreement-rcep/

     3.”Could the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) Be Dead?”
     “Canada’s elections are only a month away which gives the Trans Pacific Partnership a whole 30 days to be wrapped up and signed. Many countries have come to the conclusion that the TPP will not be wrapped up by then and have already lost interest in the TPP.”
     http://economyincrisis.org/content/could-the-trans-pacific-partnership-tpp-be-dead-2
     • AmaKiwi 9.1.1

       3 September 2015 at 9:24 pm

       That’s all good news about TPPA.

       My expectations are:

       1. The global economy is turning down.
       2. When the economy turns to custard, people become angry and isolationist.

       Why am I opposed to TPPA? Its creators are the sleaziest, money grubbing bastards on the planet. I don’t trust them to do anything good for anyone except themselves. . . almost always at our expense.
10. weka 10

    3 September 2015 at 9:08 am

    any chance this could go up as a Notice?

    YES WE CAN – a plan for significantly reducing greenhouse gas emisions.

    Announcement and Livestream today, 12.30pm

    Hear Green Party Co-leader James Shaw launch a plan that sets out a pathway to meet a more ambitious emissions reduction target.

    Streaming live at https://livestream.com/nzgreens/climate or if you are in Wellington join us in person here: https://www.facebook.com/events/871459326236902/

    In advance of the international climate negotiations at the end of the year, the Government has set a greenhouse gas emissions reduction target of 11% below 1990 levels. Climate Tracker, and others, have pointed out this target is low compared to the commitment by other countries, and also comes without a plan of how to achieve it.

    The Green Party has put together a plan that sets out a pathway to meet a more ambitious emissions reduction target. This plan can bring us into line with the rest of the world, while also transitioning New Zealand towards a smarter, greener, more prosperous future.

    Co-leader James Shaw will launch the emissions reduction plan, and introduce a roadmap for building political consensus around a more ambitious target that New Zealanders can be proud of.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/865812643501395/
    • adam 10.1

      3 September 2015 at 12:41 pm

      Thanks Weka
      • weka 10.1.1

        3 September 2015 at 1:33 pm

        Here are the various links from the presentation. The first part was a speech, the second was a power point presentation about the actual plan.

        Part 1: Speech transcript

        https://www.greens.org.nz/news/speeches/yes-we-can-plan-significantly-reducing-greenhouse-gas-emissions

        Part 2: PP summary,

        https://www.greens.org.nz/sites/default/files/YesWeCanOnePagerFINAL.pdf

        Part 2: Slides,

        https://www.greens.org.nz/sites/default/files/YesWeCanPresentation.pdf

        Press release,

        https://www.greens.org.nz/news/press-releases/yes-we-can-green-climate-plan-shows-40-target-2030-achievable

        There was much more detail in the power point, so I hope they get that up online soon.
        • weka 10.1.1.1

          3 September 2015 at 1:40 pm

          I found this useful to look at while listening too. It has a pie chart of GHG sectors and emissions in NZ.

          https://www.mfe.govt.nz/sites/default/files/media/Climate%20Change/ghg-inventory-2014-snapshot.pdf
          • weka 10.1.1.1.1

            3 September 2015 at 3:13 pm

            Video is here,

            http://livestream.com/nzgreens/climate/videos/98017470
            • weka 10.1.1.1.1.1

              3 September 2015 at 3:31 pm

              Full version of the plan plus appendices for

              Electricity
              Transport
              Other combustion of fossil fuels
              Industrial processes
              Waste
              Forestry
              QELRO and emissions budget

              https://www.greens.org.nz/file/yes-we-can-finalpdf
            • AmaKiwi 10.1.1.1.1.2

              3 September 2015 at 9:39 pm

              What will Labour say?

              Will they back the Greens or sit on their hands?

              That could well decide my party vote in 2017 and to whom my donations go.
    • adam 10.2

      3 September 2015 at 1:25 pm

      Miffed – did not get to hear Q and A
      • weka 10.2.1

        3 September 2015 at 1:30 pm

        Me too. The GP have this reputation as being the best on social media and connecting, but there is still a lot of room for improvement. I’m trying to pull together various links re the presentation, but it’s not easy. Would have been good to have had the slide show online by the time the presentation started too, I found it a bit hard to follow.
    • Bill 10.3

      3 September 2015 at 1:46 pm

      Shit. Sorry Weka. Missed that, or I would have thrown it up. Been reading through the full policy with an eye to a post on it though?
      • weka 10.3.1

        3 September 2015 at 1:56 pm

        no worries, it was pretty short notice. I’m hoping to have a proper look through today. A post would be good, there’s some interesting bits in there. They’ve produced an actual plan that will work within the economy and meet our international obligations which should be accessible to the mainstream even if it’s not enough for the likes of us 😉

        I’m hoping this will help the people feeling like they can’t do anything to realise there are things we can actually to. A detailed plan of action is exactly what we need. So not the ultimate solution by any means, but a good start to get us moving.
11. ianmac 11

    3 September 2015 at 9:17 am

    Oops! “If we are to recognise our history and use national symbols, we ought to get them right. Kyle Lockwood’s silver fern is a generic, two-divisional plant fern that can be found on every continent.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11506892 – David Ellison
    • Barbara 11.1

      3 September 2015 at 10:28 am

      Maybe this botanic error should be thoroughly checked out as it will have profound implications, our silver fern is unique and it is shabby and ill thought out in design if Kyle Lockwood hasn’t done his homework correctly – like everything else about this Govt when they organise anything they are all hair oil and no socks.
    • weka 11.2

      3 September 2015 at 10:58 am

      everywhere we turn this is a farce. That’s a good article and yet again shows how far along the path of NZ Inc we are. Wake up sleepy hobbits, not much time left now.
    • maui 11.3

      3 September 2015 at 11:35 am

      I have a major problem with Ellison’s comment though, the flag that he is backing is the Black & Silver flag, a flag that is even more botanically incorrect. https://www.govt.nz/browse/engaging-with-government/the-nz-flag-your-chance-to-decide/gallery/design/15513

      The Black & Silver flag has the leaves opposite each other and the leaf tips are rounded. Both those things are different to what a real silver fern looks like.

      At least Lockwood’s designs do have the leaves alternating running up the frond, and the tips are all pointed, which all says to me they more closely represent the real thing.
      • weka 11.3.1

        3 September 2015 at 4:48 pm

        good point. I tried looking for the original AB silver fern but can’t find it. I’ve got this image in the back of my mind of an actual silver fern shape, who used that?
12. freedom 12

    3 September 2015 at 9:27 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11506379

    The sums are paltry. It comes down to replacing all existing flags and defence uniforms and reflagging NZ Government ships and replacing the flag on drivers’ licences.

    paltry ,ˈpɔːltri,ˈpɒl-/
    adjective: paltry; comparative adjective: paltrier; superlative adjective: paltriest

    (of an amount) very small or meagre

    The last time the NZDF changed their uniforms was all the way back in 2013, for a cost of $13.6 million. Hopefully Fran meant it is only the flag patches that need replacing, not the entire uniform. The cost should only be a few thousand dollars for the new patches. I assume the soldiers will remove the old flag patch and sew on the new flag patch themselves …..
    http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/news/media-releases/2013/20130620nanail.htm

    But that is small potatoes and pales into insignificance when we consider another item listed in Fran O’Sullivan’s statement – drivers’ licences.

    http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Research/Documents/Motor-Vehicle-Crashes-2013/Motor-vehicle-crashes-2013-Driver-licence-and-vehicle-fleet-statistics.pdf

    There are approximately 3,280,603 class 1-6 car licences issued.
    There are 486,722 motorcycle licences issued.
    As some motorists hold both classes and some motorcyclists don’t hold a car licence lets call it 3,500,000 licences.

    The current renewal of a class 1-6 licence costs $43.60

    That totals $152,600,000 to replace the licences.

    This $152 million is a sum Fran O’Sullivan calls paltry.

    So who is going to pay the renewal costs?
    Has anyone asked the government?

    Personally, having very recently renewed my ten year driver licence, I am not in favour of being asked to pay another $43 for another new licence so a 2cm x 1cm bit of printed plastic conforms with a change the public did not ask for. The fact my car is off the road anyway as I can’t afford to get it roadworthy (or run it) doesn’t help either. So I’m off for a walk into town to once again wander the supermarket aisles, stupefied by the ever increasing prices, as my brain does its best to stretch as far as possible what actually is a paltry sum.
    • marty mars 12.1

      3 September 2015 at 9:56 am

      kia kaha freedom

      A paltry fran as usual
    • greywarshark 12.2

      3 September 2015 at 10:02 am

      I remember noting the division between me and my weekly income and that of John Hawkesby and the wine fans he was talking to, when he quoted a wine as being very affordable at $30. The viewpoint about what is paltry depends on how high up the income level you are, and of course whether it is a cost that affects others more or those who are lesser mortals on lesser money.
    • weka 12.3

      3 September 2015 at 10:02 am

      Why not wait until the 10 year change for each person?
      • Sabine 12.3.1

        3 September 2015 at 10:10 am

        why wait when you can extort the money because people have to have the new tea towel printed on their lisences……

        How much money is the Government gonna make on the GST component alone?

        We have a Grifter Government run by and for Grifters.
        • Pat 12.3.1.1

          3 September 2015 at 10:44 am

          enough to pay for a flag referendum perhaps?
      • The Chairman 12.3.2

        3 September 2015 at 10:38 am

        Weka, that would be the most logical and cost effective approach.
      • freedom 12.3.3

        3 September 2015 at 1:20 pm

        seems an obvious solution doesn’t it weka, especially from an economics point of view – but raises all sorts of issues with fakes etc.

        ‘Experts’ are well paid to plan these things. I haven’t seen a single publicly disclosed time-line for the re-branding of any government items that require inclusion of the New Zealand flag, if a new flag is adopted, let alone the costings.
        • weka 12.3.3.1

          3 September 2015 at 1:45 pm

          “but raises all sorts of issues with fakes etc.”

          how so?
          • freedom 12.3.3.1.1

            3 September 2015 at 3:05 pm

            ok, mild exaggeration, maybe not “all sorts of issues” but having two different flag images in circulation when fake ID’s and fake driver’s licenses are already a very real problem, surely compounds that problem?

            http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/68803722/Wellington-police-fight-uphill-battle-against-fake-IDs
            • weka 12.3.3.1.1.1

              3 September 2015 at 3:11 pm

              interesting. They need to give that 18year old something better to do with his talents.

              I’m not sure that two versions of the licence would make that any worse tbh. If they can already produce fakes that people can’t tell are fakes, would it matter?
              • freedom …

                3 September 2015 at 4:22 pm

                was only thinking It adds another layer of uncertainty to the task of spotting them.

                Nefarious teens with devious plans aside, another thing crossed my mind about the renewal of licences.

                If they do go ahead and demand they all change enmasse, rather than as the expiration dates come up, there will be an enormous demand on the services that renew the licences.

                I had an unscientific observational survey of the local AA staff to estimate the time it takes to renew a licence and put against previous personal experience I would surmise it takes 8-12 minutes per licence – this includes paperwork, photo & transaction fee processing.

                The government might allow the digital photo on file to be used to speed up the process but we can’t count on that, so let’s use 10 minutes as the ballpark figure. I tried to find out on-line what the current average annual renewal volume is, to no avail. When I made enquiries to NZTA I was told I needed to apply in writing and there would probably be a fee.

                User-pays data or food? End result, I have no current NZTA figures on annual volumes of driver licence renewals to gauge against the herculean task of renewing 3.5 million licences.

                What there is, is the data we know
                3.5 million licences at approximately 10minutes per licence is 583,333 hours or 24,305 days

                There are 69 authorised driver licence agents across the country. AA has 38 centres, VTNZ has 27 and VINZ has 4.
                This conundrum presents those offices with 352 days of 24/7 activity to renew the approximately 3.5 million private car and motorcycle licences currently in circulation.

                My guess would be they are going to be compelled to have people update their licences as they come up for renewal.

                note: None of the above includes truck/special vehicle/passenger licences or endorsements
                • weka …

                  3 September 2015 at 4:42 pm

                  Nice accounting. I’m guessing they’ll do it at the ten year renewal too.

                  Not surprised by the NZTA, was that the call centre? For some reason they’re one of the more authoritarian govt depts. You could OIA them 😈
                  • freedom …

                    3 September 2015 at 4:51 pm

                    They were actually very friendly and very prompt in answering. More so than my current telco anyway.

                    but an OIA? yeah nah, I’m gonna foolishly assume the bean-counters in the back office will be onto that already because sooner or later the MSM will need to present such information, when enough people start to ask the question.
13. Draco T Bastard 13

    3 September 2015 at 10:33 am

    Steve Keen: Why Capitalism Needs a Debt Jubilee to Survive (Video)
14. b waghorn 14

    3 September 2015 at 11:28 am

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/71698532/Maurice-Williamson-so-offensive-conference-attendees-walked-out
    Surely they have to sack this fool this time!!
    • marty mars 14.1

      3 September 2015 at 11:54 am

      I hope so – he is a parody of a person now.
      • b waghorn 14.1.1

        3 September 2015 at 12:12 pm

        If someone in his position is that stupid that he thinks that ,that shit is appropriate any where then they are not fit for office ,its the same with key pulling ponytails . I would prefer my “leaders ” to be a bit more aware.
15. adam 15

    3 September 2015 at 12:36 pm

    How odd is this – it’s almost 10 years since the Stern review.

    Global capitalism – happy to watch us burn.
16. marty mars 16

    3 September 2015 at 2:01 pm

    I don’t have a lot of time for Trotter – but he is correct on this one

    In other words, it’s a flag that speaks directly to this country’s past, present and future. For that reason, alone, it makes the strongest case for being chosen as the present flag’s replacement. That it is also a superb design merely strengthens its claim.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71655482/why-the-tino-rangatiratanga-flag-should-be-our-national-choice
    • ianmac 16.1

      3 September 2015 at 2:46 pm

      I rather like that flag too marty. Recognizable. Colour. Balanced. Symmetrical. If that was up for choosing alongside the Morgan one I would get really interested. As it is I will vote for the Koru as least best. (Not the spoiled ballot paper as that still leaves the vote for one of the others which will “win” and a spoiled paper will not change the outcome.
17. McFlock 17

    3 September 2015 at 2:19 pm

    I’ve decided that I will vote for the flag that looks like the monkey butt in the playoff round of “Pimp My Flag NZ”.

    Do we txt vote in this reality TV program, or is it down to facebook likes?
18. weka 18

    3 September 2015 at 3:17 pm

    This is the first flag I’ve seen that’s made me think a new flag might be a good idea,

    https://www.facebook.com/redpeakflag

    MADE FROM NEW ZEALAND
    Red Peak was designed to reflect distinctly powerful and fundamental visual elements from New Zealand culture. The challenge was to break down multicultural elements into the most simple shared forms.

    The flag design uses a primary shape of triangle/chevron which is drawn from Taniko weaving patterns. The shapes and colour positioning suggest a landscape of alpine ranges, red earth, and black sky, which refers to the Maori mythology of Rangi & Papa. The red triangle with white stripe is an iteration of elements of our existing flags (tip of our existing Stars, Union Jack detail, Commonwealth Games 74 logo).
19. weka 19

    3 September 2015 at 4:44 pm

    Can everyone else see the smilies, or has something happened to them?

    🙂 🙄 😈 😉
    • lprent 19.1

      3 September 2015 at 11:08 pm

      I can.
      • weka 19.1.1

        3 September 2015 at 11:12 pm

        ok, prob at my end then.
20. Mike the Savage One 20

    3 September 2015 at 10:21 pm

    With shock and disappointment, I conclude, the “European Idea” is nothing but DEAD:

    http://www.dw.com/en/orban-refugee-crisis-is-a-german-problem/a-18691306

    This is the beginning of the end of the EU as we have known it, for sure, and more fractures will come soon, as this refugee disaster, totally mismanaged by a “union” that has not got its act together, is causing stress levels so far unknown to Europe.

    It is every one to their own, Greece was just barely “rescued” from bankcruptcy weeks ago, and to get that managed, the Eurozone, a large part of the EU member states, was already stressed to the limits, as they struggled to agree on a “rescue package”, which some rather considered a dictate of harsh terms.

    Now the refugee crisis is finishing off Europe, as Hungary goes its way, tells Germany and other states to get stuffed, and simply sends trains to the Austrian border, so the thousands on them can move on. In the meantime they will build more fences and walls, pass draconian “anti migrant” laws, ban refugees from entering and more. Before that Slovakia and some other new member states expressed similar concerns as the Hungarian government.

    The cobbled together, expanded EU has reached its limits, and is facing at least partial collapse.

    Merckel and others stand there unable to do much, as they themselves face a dilemma. While many in their populations in Germany, Austria, perhaps Sweden and a few other countries may show solidarity, and offer support for Syrian and other refugees, there is also strong opposition brewing among the “silent majority”, who oppose further intake of refugees.

    The strategy of Islamic State (ISIS) is working, bringing Europe to its knees, I fear.
21. North 21

    4 September 2015 at 12:03 am

    Things get no better at the Herald when Trev’ tries to be funny, tries to whip up a howler.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11506974

    Ya just ain’t got it Trev’. There’s a good spot I know writing mawkish greeting cards. Call me.

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