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Open mike 05/07/2021

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, July 5th, 2021 - 93 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

93 comments on “Open mike 05/07/2021 ”

  1. Incognito 2

    The last red flag to look out for is, is the information presented in a way that seems designed to make you angry or scared. Good information put out to help you make an informed choice won’t do that.

    Indeed, and I apply this rule-of-thumb to comments on this site too, i.e. when there is much anger and/or other negative emotions in it – the opposite tone applies as well, of course.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300347048/how-to-spot-covid19-misinformation

    • Sabine 2.1

      And while the country waits patiently to get the vaccines to arrive, for invites to be send out, for those over 65 to finally get their jabs they should have gotten some weeks ago, we again discuss those that may not want it the jabs.

      that in itself seems to become misinformation now, how many will actually not want a jab – for what ever reason?

      But we are lucky, – good news, 150.000 doses arrived two days earlier. If we ration that properly to some 5000 doses a day delivered it might last till then next shipment and thus we don't run out 🙂 good news.

      • Incognito 2.1.1

        Take it away, Sabine! We know you can do it!

        https://www.newsroom.co.nz/charting-new-zealands-vaccine-rollout

        • Sabine 2.1.1.1

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-group-4-vaccination-rollout-start-date-wording-changed-on-government-website/XOCYASHL22RFHM5RHCBV3HXHPM/

          but yeah, you post that link Incognito as if you life depend on it. 🙂 It is still a meaningless link to those that are in groups that should have been vaccinated but aren't.

          But lets discuss the few that may or may not refuse a vaccine that they will not get for another few month.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 2.1.1.1.1

            It is still a meaningless link to those that are in groups that should have been vaccinated but aren't.

            https://covid19.govt.nz/

            So what can be done about "those that are in groups that should have been vaccinated but aren't"? I can't do anything about vaccine supply, but maybe you can? Or maybe you have some ideas about what our Government can do, or coulda/shoulda done to ensure a better supply during this on-going pandemic?

            Expect the tragic global COVID death toll on Worldometers to top 4 million on Tuesday/Wednesday, although the actual excess mortality is likely higher.

            Only 26 tragic COVID deaths in NZ so far, the last one almost 5 months ago, so surely the team of nearly five million deserve a pat on the back for that – we don't know how lucky we are.

            Personally I recommend the placebo moan – feeling better already wink

            Major depression: an illness with objective physical signs
            Anxiety is a conspicuous and an integral element of affective state and may be expressed by severe restlessness and agitation. Muscle tension, wringing of hands, weeping and moaning, repeating over and over in a monotonous and stereotyped way phrases expressive of misery are all important clinical signs of major depression.

            And a response/critique:

            Blue is the new black

            Of course they're only experts – really not worth my time.

          • Incognito 2.1.1.1.2

            You have mentioned twice that we (??) need to “discuss” this but you don’t discuss anything!? You just put down and pull down without offering up anything, just meaningless ignorant vitriol.

            Besides hijacking and diverting this thread to an imaginary discussion you’re pissing in the wind again, as usual.

            I’ve got badly scratched broken old records that sound better than most of your comments because the professionalism and quality still come through. When will you stop screeching and start contributing something new and useful to the conversation?

        • AB 2.1.1.2

          One of the things I don't miss about working in the corporate world is being part of project teams that had talented, hard-working people busting themselves to get something difficult done. Then having to go and sit in front of lazy, entitled managers who wanted everything done yesterday and ignorantly impugned our competence and commitment – and took every issue, challenge and delay as evidence that these were lacking. I guess it's a more general human phenomenon than I realised.

          • GreenBus 2.1.1.2.1

            Yes, one can get a little over the constant harping on about the smallest things when really the ship is sailing smoothly on very rough sea. All the crews asses are safe thanks to a great captain in charge. There are always a few stirrers on board though that are never happy.

            • woodart 2.1.1.2.1.1

              I get very tired of the constant whingers, they must be a real joy(sarc alert) to live with. maybe they should take a look at the rest of the planet, and if they can find somewhere better, bugger off there . especially the moaners who dont have any solutions.

            • McFlock 2.1.1.2.1.2

              Although there was one Cook Strait crossing where B bought a dozen handles of speights just before the bar shut, and a particularly large roll took them all off the table. That was a damned tragic event mourned deeply by all present. 🙂

              • mac1

                You call that a tragedy? A tragedy would have been having beer spilt. 🙂

                • McFlock

                  them's fighting words 🙂

                  • mac1

                    What beer we drink and what team we support really do define us, don't they, like an accent or style of clothing.

                    The pub I played in during the early Eighties was about the first pub to pour Mac's Real Ale. It broke the Lion/DB duopoly. The brewery had to go to Nelson and buy a cidery to be able to access beer bottles as the two had sewn up the supply through the ABC.

                    Now NZ has 200 breweries. Last night I we dined with my son-in-law and daughter next to a great local brewery. Schnitzel and sauerkraut, garlic bread and two craft beers, a hazelnut beertini and a porter, and a wee taste of a salty sour.

                    Unheard of food or ales when I was young, and a compensation for getting old!

                    • McFlock

                      yeah, tbh honest I tend to drink a pale ale these days. Still attached to speight's though.

                      The trouble is that the mainstream beers are but shadows of their former selves. Export gold tastes like wizz to me, but when they had their 50th they released original recipe export (maybe even export gold?). Really nice, layered, nuanced, a bloody nice beer.

                      Speights today isn't as bad as export (less uriny hue for a start), but I suspect it's still a shadow of what it was even in the mid-1990s (when the beernami happened).

              • Pat

                Spilt Speights is a blessing

        • alwyn 2.1.1.3

          That's wonderful. We are now at 122nd place in the world for percentage of the population who have been vaccinated.

          That is really at the front of the queue isn't it?

          • Incognito 2.1.1.3.1

            I know Sabine and you are excited and can hardly contain yourselves with giddy glee but don’t you think you’re embarrassing yourselves just a tiny wee bit?

            • woodart 2.1.1.3.1.1

              you have to be self-aware to be embarrassed. being self-aware is NOT being self-important..

              • Incognito

                I wasn’t aware of that, thank you.

              • McFlock

                or have something in the line of integrity or shame.

                Everyone has their own malfunction, but some are more serious [or tragic] than others.

      • Sacha 2.1.2

        150.000 doses arrived two days earlier. If we ration that properly to some 5000 doses a day delivered it might last till then next shipment and thus we don't run out

        The PM on tvnz's Breakfast show this morning said there is another 150,000 due in a week, then two more shipments that will take it to 1,000,000 for July.

        Best find some other angle to whinge about.

  2. peter 3

    David Seymour is on the rampage about the Human Rights Commission giving a $200 koha to the Waikato Mongrel Mob. Simon Brown and Judith Collins are into it boots and all.

    The mob recently having members arrested on drug charges makes the payment appalling.

    Seymour has Dilworth School in his electorate. I wonder if they get any assistance from government agencies. You know, the school with many cases and allegations of sexual assault on young people over years.

    • Sabine 3.1

      Considering the sexual assault report of the CHCH Girls School, rape in schools is as Kiwi as, and its not as if it were a hate crime or anything, so they get nothing. Also, its only kids, and kids in NZ can get abused at home, in schools or in government care and nothing much is done.

      So i don't thing they would get monetary assistance. They can hold a bake sale though?

      • Pete 3.1.1

        Dilworth is a private school and has its own ways of operating. My wondering is across the spectrum of activities, whether any Government agencies are contributing to their operation, or people working have received any contribution.

        Did the Christchurch report say there'd been rape at a school? You intimated last week it did and touch on that again here.

        (Typo in my first comment. It should have been 'Simeon" Brown. I hope he doesn't think he's being picked on.

          • Pete 3.1.1.1.1

            Thanks, I was aware of all that. What I tried to get at was an intimation that rape happened at school.

            • cricklewood 3.1.1.1.1.1

              aah missed the distinction…

            • Sabine 3.1.1.1.1.2

              sorry if i worded that incorrectly.

              What i intimated (correct term?) at is that:

              sexual violence, physical violence, verbal violence directed at children in NZ is kiwi as.

        • Sabine 3.1.1.2

          Yes, at least 20 girls came forward, at least three have allegations of 'gang rape' or 'having a train run over them'.

          this is from the women who ran the review.

          https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2021/06/29/exclusive-dr-liz-gordon-sexual-harassment-silence-and-power/

          The police and school initially stopped the girls from protesting the boy school in question – truancy, for their own safety blablablah

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/124657314/students-protesting-sexual-harassment-turned-back-from-boys-school-by-police

          but then

          https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-girls-high-schools-sexual-harassment-survey-police-meeting-with-students-after-20-say-they-have-been-raped/VWD2TPTKNGLTFDRGJ5VNQ33UNI/

          mind these things might be considered a crime, or maybe not – maybe they just like rough and degrading sex

          A survey of 725 Girls’ High students found more than half had been sexually harassed, a quarter saying it had happened on 10 occasions or more. Three have now laid formal police complaints, with another nine considering it.

          Students described being grabbed on buses, offered money to allow them to be touched,
          three allegations of gang rape, being slapped in the face when having sex against their will, and being forced to touch boys

          We don't care as a society. We just don't. And the fact that these girls don't actually go to police or to anyone just shows how internalised that knowledge is. As evidenced by the Police and School stopping the protests against the sexual violence meeted out to them, rather then then asking themselves where they – our institutions in which these children should be safe – have failed.

          added, these girls are between 13 – 18 years old. Schoolgirls.

          • Treetop 3.1.1.2.1

            Too many authority figures with out dated thinking when it comes to complainants. No money for legal aid either. Our children, adolescents and young adults are being failed.

            I have never seen the Police Commissioner or the PM ever wear a red ribbon. A red ribbon is the ribbon for sexual violence. I will post them a few each once I can source them.

            • Incognito 3.1.1.2.1.1

              I have never seen the Police Commissioner or the PM ever wear a red ribbon. A red ribbon is the ribbon for sexual violence. I will post them a few each once I can source them.

              Huh??

              • Treetop

                Like the white ribbon.

                • Incognito

                  The red ribbon is like the white ribbon!?

                  • Descendant Of Smith

                    Here's a list of ribbons and causes.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awareness_ribbons

                    • Incognito

                      Treetop said this:

                      A red ribbon is the ribbon for sexual violence.

                      This is news to me and not backed up on your Wikipedia page either, as far as I can tell.

                    • Treetop []

                      I will search for when the red ribbon was used by rape crisis. It could have been taken over by the white ribbon.

                    • Descendant Of Smith

                      I wasn't backing it up. Just providing a reference. I hadn't heard of it being associated either. Closest I could think of was red is also used for anti-genital mutilation in some places.

                      "There's not much more meaningless than wearing a ribbon."

                      I'm in that camp – I feel the same way about ribbons, badges, poppies, daffodils ……..

                      Except for Rick – the peoples poet. His badges are fine.

                    • Incognito []

                      Tattoos, bumper stickers, SM accounts, fridge magnets, all meaningless attributes to show you’re a unique member of a specific tribe.

                    • Treetop

                      Thanks for the list.

                  • I Feel Love

                    There's not much more meaningless than wearing a ribbon, John Key was part of the White Ribbon thing FFS. It's an imported American thing, like "hopes & prayers", meaningless.

                    • Incognito

                      That’s Sir John for you and he fully deserved that knighthood!

                    • greywarshark

                      To paraphrase –

                      Do not go gentle into that good knight,
                      Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
                      Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

                  • Treetop

                    Yes. Rape Crisis have the red one. Not sure whether the red one came before the white one. Both ribbons are about violence and sexual violence is not family or domestic violence.

                    I was not impressed with Ardern this morning on TV One speaking to Campbell. The subject came up of the March 15 2019 survivors who were excluded by not being covered for a mental injury with ACC when there was no physical injury. Ardern used an example of witnessing a murder. There is a difference with witnessing murder due to a terrorist attack.

                    Even if both were covered the number is not that high for witnessing a murder.

                    • Incognito

                      What is a mental injury?

                      Mental injury is a legal concept rather than a clinical concept and as such is defined by legislation.

                      Accident Compensation Act 2001

                      A mental injury is defined as:“a clinically significant behavioural, cognitive or psychological dysfunction”(s27).

                      ACC can provide cover for mental injury arising from:

                      • Sexual abuse (sensitive claims),
                      • A covered physical injury,
                      • A work related traumatic incident, and
                      • Treatment injury.

                      https://www.acc.co.nz/assets/provider/edb599d6ad/mental-injury-assessment-guide.pdf

                      It is not in the PM's hands, so there's little point in blaming her for this, least of all for her trying to explain the situation.

                    • Treetop []

                      It is in the government's hand to take responsibility and to not exclude people who were not physically injured due to a terrorist attack.

                      The Jade ribbon is now used.

                    • Incognito []

                      The goal posts are moving.

                      This was the issue:

                      The subject came up of the March 15 2019 survivors who were excluded by not being covered for a mental injury with ACC when there was no physical injury.

                      The answer is clear and it has nothing to do with the PM or this Government. However, you could then argue that the Act needs to be changed to include mental injury arising from an act of terrorism. If so, then make that case.

                    • Treetop []

                      Mental injury caused through witnessing a terrorist attack needs to have its own category for ACC cover. A terrorist event is rare in NZ. People who recieve cover for a physical injury get cover for that regardless of how they were injured.

              • Treetop

                Jade ribbon Sexual assault/sexual abuse including Military, sexual trauma.

                I will check by email as to when the red ribbon ceased.

                • Pat

                  It would appear that the red ribbon has been used for many things….but not sexual assault/abuse

    • Jimmy 3.2

      Good on Seymour. Gangs like Mongrel Mob should not be given ANY tax payer money whether it be called a "donation" or "koha".

      These gangs distribute meth and other drugs and should not be supported. It's not like they contribute anything good to society.

      • greywarshark 3.2.1

        If only the government had made cannabis legal, a lesser drug, and now also having good medicinal effect relieving the conditions of some people! There would have been something to do for the gangs looking for a profitable business. There needs to be inspired thinking about what should be done in times of trouble, what will work best, and let's improve the situation.

        Perhaps do a flip and enable the gangs to make meth to a controlled strength? Prohibition when there is much money involved isn't an answer, nor is a prison sentence. The harm has been done, how can it be lessened. Not getting squillions of dosages from China et al would be a help to control drug crime.

        Of course the other rarely mentioned point, is that if people would only care about their health and wellbeing and be wary of drugs, there would not be such a market for them.

        • Jimmy 3.2.1.1

          Over 50% of public voted for cannabis not to be legal so govt just went with what the majority wanted. But what difference would it make anyway if it had been made legal? Gangs would still sell meth and P and stronger than legal cannabis.

          Regardless of that, tax payer money should not go to gangs.

      • joe90 3.2.2

        Seymour ruled out returning donations from a man who threatened to destroy mosque after mosque till I am taken out but you're pissy over a couple a hundy going to these losers.

        .

        Righto….

        • Jimmy 3.2.2.1

          Sorry, I didn't realise you were a gang supporter, I'll be more careful in future.
          I don’t believe any of the gangs should receive any money.

      • Sacha 3.2.3

        The $200 seems like a red herring. Has the Human Rights Commission said why they were meeting with the gang in the first place? I can imagine people disagreeing with that but it's really not about the money unless you're a hopeless rightie.

    • Treetop 3.3

      A group of Auckland lawyers are doing pro bono for historical Dilworth sexual assault cases as staff were the alleged offenders. Dilworth has a billion in assets so the lawyers will get paid.

      Anyone else like the Lake Alice child and adolescent unit survivors will have to find funding which will delay justice and consume a complainants time and energy.

  3. Forget now 4

    It's good that at least one MP is willing to speak out about forced labour (& organ harvesting) in China. It seems a valid point that; we are complicit if we profit from this, and perhaps our laws should be amended to reflect that (though prison labour would also be an issue for purchases from other countries too – USA springs to mind).

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/446189/labour-mp-breaks-ranks-to-accuse-china-of-organ-harvesting

    What happened with Wall at the last election anyway? I know the broad outline of the Manurewa seat being taken from her to be gifted to one of Robertson's allies (so she is list only now). But why?

    Is she too inconvenient to party discipline in speaking her mind and putting forth controversial member's bills? Maybe just tainted by association with Cunliffe? There is obviously some background there that I missed by not paying attention (&/or being aware of the Auckland political scene).

  4. Muttonbird 5

    ‘Eat a bat and die’: Vile threats against Wuhan lab conspiracy-buster

    Facebook’s decision to remove large amounts of misinformation about Covid-19 and replace it with fact-checked material, including Dr Anderson’s, infuriated extremist conspiracy websites so much that one published her email address.

    The man dubbed America’s “most prolific” conspiracy theorist, Texan Alex Jones, named Dr Anderson as “the woman running projects with weaponised COVID” and claimed she “ran all the censorship for Facebook … and silences the president”.

    Geelong-born Dr Anderson had no idea she was being targeted until a friend from New York asked: “Why am I seeing your face?”

    The first email to hit her inbox read simply: “Eat a bat and die, bitch.”

    It is sad to see scientists being targeted by right wing lunatic conspiracy theorists.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health … racybuster

    • greywarshark 5.1

      Further it is sad to see people being targeted and abused by others prepared to say horrible things to them. What gunge is in such people's head that they spew up at others – it must be awful in there. Get out in the sunlight and look for something to smile at, carry that good feeling for at least ten minutes, pass that smile to someone you encounter with a kind word that will make them feel good. Exercises for mental health!

  5. bwaghorn 6

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300349366/labour-mp-breaks-ranks-to-accuse-china-of-organ-harvesting

    I hope Wall can prove it cause shes probably just killed the golden goose!

    Edit no delete function I see this is posted above

    • Sabine 6.1

      from the article.

      She based that on findings from a recent independent tribunal chaired by Sir Geoffrey Nice, a British QC, who previously worked with the International Criminal Court.

      His 600-page report, called the China Tribunal, says the killing of political prisoners for organ transplants is continuing in China and that many people have died “indescribably hideous deaths” in the process.

      this is why is is saying what she says

      The MP, who is part of a global network of politicians monitoring the actions of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), also says her own government needs to do more to counter what she calls the slave labour trade in China.

      and this is the solution to what she said- based on the above linked comment about a 600 page report.

      “What the UK and Canada have done is they've got modern slavery acts and they want to ensure the corporates who are taking those raw materials, actually ensure that the production of those raw materials complies with the modern slavery act. I like that mechanism.”

      She said the Government also needs to pass new laws to stop New Zealanders getting organ transplants sourced from China or from any country that cannot verify the integrity of its organ donor programme.

      China sources some organs from political prisoners, she said.

      I think she is quite confident that the gold on the goose is just paint.

    • Byd0nz 6.2

      She is a victim of the anti everything China brigade, they have no substantiated proof, just mud speak to help the Imperialist infowar which shows up the death throes of the American Empire whos dreams of hegemony is crumbling.

  6. Muttonbird 7

    Lol, Duncs is firmly in the Collins camp. Couldn't make it more obvious if he tried. Everybody's fault but the leader's, he cries:

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/07/duncan-garner-the-national-party-is-in-complete-disarray-here-s-who-needs-to-go.html

    • Jimmy 7.1

      If the Nats had any sense, they would get rid of Goodfellow.

    • mac1 7.2

      And the questions that Garner didn't ask? "What fault does a leader share in National's fault-ridden performance; and who could do it better?"

      For me, the leader and the performance of the party are intertwined. Before she became leader, she was a senior MP, experienced and even had been disciplined by her Leader. She helped form the culture- mean, dysfunctional, narrow, mysogynistic. She revelled in a nickname, the Crusher- undeserved except of her own in actuality, but indicative. She is snarky, smirky and her practice is the norm, the usual, the National way. She is divisive, and her party is divided.

      New Zealand is blighted by a culture of poor middle management. National's problem is that this cadre of poor managers has elevated into the leadership at party and parliamentary level.

      • woodart 7.2.1

        nailed it mac1. collins has been there for years. part of the furniture. no amount of praying will wash her hands clean.

    • Pete 7.3

      They played team tag to destroy Lees-Galloway. Garner was probably disappointed he didn't get to maul Muller with Collins too.

  7. greywarshark 8

    edit
    Good one FNDC – Far North District Council. Is this in accordance with Hone Carter’s wishes? Or is it Whangarei Mayor Sheryl Mai and Deputy Greg Innes who find it hard to come up with practical and simple necessities of life for those in need?

    FNDC has shown courageous leadership as it strives towards the goal of being the very best Council in New Zealand. Their journey started four years ago when the Council undertook its first CouncilMARK™ assessment which helped FNDC establish a baseline of performance. From there, a comprehensive work programme was created that centered around continuous improvement.

    Despite this? What about the children! Further than that cliche' – what about ordinary people being photoshopped out of the picture?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/446072/whangarei-pair-living-in-park-trespassed-as-homelessness-skyrockets 3 July 2021
    Whangārei rough sleepers are facing trespass notices amid a rapid rise in homelessness.

    This week, RNZ revealed new figures showing the city's homeless population had increased from 21 people in 2018 to 293 in 2020.
    The figures were part of a Northland District Health Board report released this week.

    It said "a very high proportion" of homeless were Māori and that was "reinforcing and extending existing inequities" but it was "unlikely there is sufficient transitional housing in Northland to meet the need".

    The report also said he kainga ora was an "unreachable dream" for too many people in Te Tai Tokerau and that most homeless people in Whangārei were living in vehicles or around bridges and toilets.
    On Wednesday, two homeless people illegally living in a park were trespassed by the Whangārei District Council and warned they could be fined up to $1000 or imprisoned for up to three months if they returned within two years.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCs1rkAXZ9o – Easy to be Hard

  8. Sabine 9

    On Wednesday, two homeless people illegally living in a park were trespassed by the Whangārei District Council and warned they could be fined up to $1000 or imprisoned for up to three months if they returned within two years

    ah, well that will fix it.

  9. greywarshark 10

    The dross has left Mataura. And put in a place where it can't get wet and release ammonia. I seem to remember a lot of talk about 'dries' in economic terms a while back. Perhaps it has been sent to their headquarter to join the other dross, or scum as it's sometimes called.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/446228/tiwai-point-by-product-completely-removed-from-southland-town

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