Open mike 05/09/2011

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, September 5th, 2011 - 101 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

101 comments on “Open mike 05/09/2011 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. happynz 1
    5 September 2011 at 6:29 am

    *mini-rant*

    Why can’t New Zealand news presenters properly pronounce the names of cities such as Guangzhou and Guadalajara? It’s not particularly difficult.

    I dread the day when something happens in Managua, Nicaragua or Ougadougou, Burkina Faso and the carefully coiffed knuckleheads try to wrap their talking gear around those.

    • Adele 1.1
      5 September 2011 at 6:53 am

      Maaori also dispair – when things happen in Porirua, Tamaki Makaurau, Papatoetoe etc, etc, etc.

      • pollywog 1.1.1
        5 September 2011 at 9:32 am

        …and when is anyone going to pull that useless rugby commentating pair of ignorant fuckwits, Nesbitt and Smith on their pronunciation of pasifikan surnames ?

        they go right out of their way to pronounce the saffas names properly, with their stupid spellings of names that dont even sound like the way they’re spelt but revel in mispronouncing ours.

        it’s the pasifikan names that have an O in them that particularly grates me. Kaino, Toeava and Vito spring to mind. It’s not fucking Kane-oh or Tow-e-ahva or Vi-tow.

        I mean jeez, how fucking hard is it to pronounce AW instead of OH, so the O sound comes out like AW as in Brad Thawn ?

        …thus making Kaino – Kai naw, Toeava -Taw e ahva, and Vito – Vi taw.

        I’d love to see the players themselves front foot the issue in any interviews and state clearly and forthrightly how their names are to be pronounced.

        • McFlock 1.1.1.1
          5 September 2011 at 12:44 pm

          Worcestershire.

          Always a laugh to hear butchered, either as a place or a sauce.

        • rosy 1.1.1.2
          5 September 2011 at 7:17 pm

          I don’t mind when people make an effort and it still doesn’t sound right – we all have different accents, different histories of hearing a word. It’s when an effort is not made at all that grates…e.g. my surname is not common and has a silent ‘e’. I don’t mind that the ‘e’ is said when it shouldn’t be, but do mind when the first exceedingly simple syllable is mispronounced.

          And yes, I do mispronounce Maori and Pacific words, hopefully not badly enough that people think I am not making an effort. I find the combined vowels are difficult – probably because I visualise the spelling rather than the sound. I also find ‘r’ rolling difficult (as do many others, I guess, hence Brad Thorn being Brad Thawn – you’d never hear a Scot saying that!).

          Anyway, my pronunciation problem at the moment is trying to make the German ‘ich’ sound like an ‘e’ then a cat’s hiss sound rather ‘ch’ as in chair, or ‘k’. *sigh*. and on that note I also wonder if some of Key’s mangling of English is in part due to his Austrian mother – lots of ‘sh’ sounds in Austrian-accented German.

    • tc 1.2
      5 September 2011 at 7:21 am

      Why can’t we find kiwis to read, tv3 has a weather presenter who sounds Irish I think…..why? It’s a national NZ news service so how about kiwis mediawonks.

      • logie97 1.2.1
        5 September 2011 at 7:33 am

        Why do we still have to have reporters who insist on the first question they will ask visiting personalities to “Godzone” is going to tell us how beautiful the country is and how friendly we are? Cringe …! (Must be part of Journalism 101. We need to understand now that our ancestors did not make a mistake migrating here all those years ago.)

      • rosy 1.2.2
        5 September 2011 at 7:42 am

        What about knowing where places are? e.g. radio announcer not knowing where Otago is. Place names – how about Tuck-son, Arizona… looking at you – Sasha, TV3.

        • Bored 1.2.2.1
          5 September 2011 at 7:46 am

          Why the hell do we need news readers on screen at all, bringing their “personalities” and “anchor” abilities? Non of them know shit from clay so why give them any credibility?

        • Colonial Viper 1.2.2.2
          5 September 2011 at 7:57 am

          Another example of NZ media corporations following the US lead. Make the MSM (and its presenters) as ignorant and uneducated as possible, (New Zealand, that’s in Norway, right?) in order to achieve the same effect in the population.

        • happynz 1.2.2.3
          5 September 2011 at 8:02 am

          how about Tuck-son, Arizona… looking at you – Sasha, TV3.

          Tuck-son? Seriously?

          🙂 Unreal…

          • rosy 1.2.2.3.1
            5 September 2011 at 8:38 am

            Seriously lol. It was awhile ago now, so probably mean of me to mention it – but it’s my yardstick for ignorance of presenters (along with the NZer not knowing where Otago is).

            • Jim Nald 1.2.2.3.1.1
              5 September 2011 at 8:43 am

              Might that sound like Oh-tay-go or Oh-t-air-go ?

              Or why not let them mutilate Otepoti.

              • clandestino …
                5 September 2011 at 9:54 am

                Jeez the history of the evolution of language is replete with mispronunciation! Is it right that because we have the technology to do so, we should encourage the stasis of language?
                I say nay, fight oral conservatism!

                • vto …
                  5 September 2011 at 10:01 am

                  Quite right. If we listened to all the language freaks who freak out at mispronunciation and new words then quite obviously we would still be speaking cavemanwoman language. In fact actually, there are still traces of it to be heard in John Key’s speech if you listen carefully.

                • Vicky32 …
                  5 September 2011 at 6:33 pm

                  Jeez the history of the evolution of language is replete with mispronunciation! Is it right that because we have the technology to do so, we should encourage the stasis of language?
                  I say nay, fight oral conservatism!

                  Sure, language changes. But to mispronounce Tucson and Guadalajara is simply rude, and unnecessary – and so much difficulty would be prevented by newsreaders simply rehearsing their script before going on air! Language changes, but the change can’t be a matter of one person’s choice… I had huge confusion with a friend who said “appo-sight” when he meant apposite – he’d learned the word by reading it and had never heard it said… (Home schooling?) If every one just used their own idiolect even worse confusion would reign than already does. Plus which, there are an increasing number of non-native speakers of English in NZ – do you want them to be unable to understand a news bulletin?

              • mik e …
                5 September 2011 at 9:12 pm

                Otakou Otepeti is Dunedins name Otakou is the original Maori name mangled to Ootaa gooooo.

        • Vicky32 1.2.2.4
          5 September 2011 at 6:26 pm

          Place names – how about Tuck-son, Arizona… looking at you – Sasha, TV3.

          Oh no, she didn’t! Horror! 😀

    • Jim Nald 1.3
      5 September 2011 at 8:08 am

      And Beijing becomes Bei-zzhh-ing.

      ‘jing’ is a soft ‘ch’ sound (as in chair – what presenters sit on and try not to fall off).

      Please try to get the pinyin consonants and vowels right. Not that hard. Or get in someone to take the whole radio/tv cast through it.

      Shanghai has a long ‘aah’ sound (ie Shaang-hai) and does not rhyme with hang high, but rhymes with hung high.

      This applies too all other languages. With modern technology (eg a free skype call), check with local counterparts who know how to get the pronounciation right.

      Set a good example to help make us Kiwi say it correctly – in NZ and when we are overseas.

    • Bill 1.4
      5 September 2011 at 8:49 am

      My personal ‘favorite’ is the ‘cow’ in Moscow.

      edit. Oh, and that strangely strangled almost backwards ‘moo’ with a happy ‘ah’ thrown in that weather reporters utter when (over) pronouncing Oamaru. (Kind of like the sound I’d expect from a cow experiencing relief at the end of a difficult calfing)

      • marty mars 1.4.1
        5 September 2011 at 9:04 am

        Motueka is the placename that causes lots of difficulty from what I hear. Lots of ‘chew’ in there when mispronounced.

        • pollywog 1.4.1.1
          5 September 2011 at 9:38 am

          hah yeah, i don’t even bother anymore and just call it Motch, which incidentally is just round the corner from the rather posh lifestyle community of Moo tree…

          …and of course that’s Upper Moutere, not to be condfused with the bottom feeders slum dwelling in the bowels of Lower Moo Tree

          • prism 1.4.1.1.1
            5 September 2011 at 11:10 am

            @pollywog – Ever been to Warkupawark?

            • pollywog 1.4.1.1.1.1
              5 September 2011 at 11:41 am

              yeah, it’s just down the road from Addawai isn’t it ?

              close to where my my kids go to school at Hi-rah

              man, i love living here in Wockatoo…

              • marty mars …
                5 September 2011 at 11:51 am

                ‘noose in’ I think you mean

                • prism …
                  5 September 2011 at 2:27 pm

                  Oh dear our pronunsion isn’t the best is it. One non-Maori word that I notice gets mangled, the lieberry (where we borrow books in case you don’t recognise).

                  And pollywog I shame-facedly admit that I use some of those bad verbals myself, though I try to correct myself. I have taken up the pronunciation of Motueka in the past with a Radionz reporter. Seems a bit odd that we have the Maori greetings at the beginning of news programs but the interest in the language doesn’t go to checks on place-name mangling.

        • Jim Nald 1.4.1.2
          5 September 2011 at 10:06 am

          Here’s grinning air’chew 😉

      • Vicky32 1.4.2
        5 September 2011 at 6:40 pm

        My personal ‘favourite’ is the ‘cow’ in Moscow.

        Ah yes, that’s an example of the Americanisation of New Zealand English. Things such as Eye-rack and Eye-racki (Iraq, Iraqi) and Mos-cow (Moscow) were never heard 10 years back… 
        Other examples are ‘sked-yool’ and gotten both of which seem to have taken over completely. Gotten particularly irks me – Americans use it only for past perfect whereas NZers use it for past simple and past perfect and no one seems to even know the difference!

        • Daveosaurus 1.4.2.1
          5 September 2011 at 7:08 pm

          In all fairness to the local pronounciators, the actual pronounciation of the “cow” in “Moscow” should probably be something like “kva”. I have no idea whether the mispronounciation or the misspelling came first.

          Similarly, there would be fewer bad pronounciations of “Oamaru” around if its (as far as I know) superfluous first ‘a’ disappeared.

    • William Joyce 1.5
      5 September 2011 at 9:02 am

      One TV3 journo said that a woman had suffered “punctuation” wounds!
      She (her name was Tilda Ampersand) was obviously in a comma having come to a full stop after receiving a backslash to her colon which opened her parentheses. She made a dash to the hospital where they made a hash of it and failed to close her parentheses. She now drinks carets through straws and has to wear braces.

    • Brett Dale 1.6
      5 September 2011 at 2:01 pm

      happynz:

      Come on now. who the hell can pronounce Guadalajara??

      Your post was satire?

      • Vicky32 1.6.1
        5 September 2011 at 6:53 pm

        Come on now. who the hell can pronounce Guadalajara??

        Who the hell can’t? Come on, it’s not difficult!

    • Vicky32 1.7
      5 September 2011 at 6:21 pm

      Why can’t New Zealand news presenters properly pronounce the names of cities such as Guangzhou and Guadalajara? It’s not particularly difficult.

      Oh exactly! They are fertile fields for me to gather ‘infelicities’ for my language blog… I have heard some breath-takingly awful things…

  2. Jim Nald 2
    5 September 2011 at 8:02 am

    “Two hundred years ago industry said that the end of the slave trade was uneconomic and would lead to loss of jobs, and there was public demand for slaves as they were a necessity. Industry proposed that reductions in use of slaves should be left to market forces and self regulation, and that industry itself would improve conditions and limit numbers. Legislation against the slave trade led to the industries involved developing hugely successful technological solutions in very short timescales.

    “By legislating against ecocide, companies would develop new technologies and new ways of working far more rapidly than they would otherwise.”

    Polly Higgins & Ecocide
    People’s Book Prize Winner 2011

    9:20am, Today (Mon 5 Sep)
    Nine to Noon with Kathryn Ryan, Radio NZ

    7 – 9pm, Today (Mon 5 Sep)
    Auckland University
    Lecture Theatre 260-098, Owen Glenn Building

    Strong recommendation from prism and Jim Nald
    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-04092011/#comment-371102

    • Jim Nald 2.1
      5 September 2011 at 8:26 am

      Otago Daily Times records Polly’s visit (thanks, John Gibb!):

      http://www.odt.co.nz/campus/university-otago/176219/nz-urged-battle-ecocide

    • Bill 2.2
      5 September 2011 at 9:10 am

      ‘Traditional’ slaves weren’t anywhere near as necessary in industrial settings as they were in intensive agriculture. (Not saying there wasn’t bonded labour in factories throughout the north of England and elsewhere. There was.)

      But essentially, slavery wasn’t so much abolished as subjected to a shift in focus that resulted in an explosion in the number and size of available markets (as well as profit levels) through the enforced imposition of new social inventions called jobs. Slavery wasn’t abolished but simply expanded to encompass the people we term today as workers.

      Strange then, how we measure individual worth by the degree of exhibited acceptance and involvement in the workforce, no?

      • prism 2.2.1
        5 September 2011 at 11:02 am

        @Bill – Slavery, as it was practised with entrapment and kidnapping from home family and country to be carted away in ships with minimum conditions for living needs, and then sold to other people and used as human animals, was abolished by law. Don’t confuse that please.

        One of the points Polly Higgins makes is that William Wilberforce and others, had to work hard for change against the cry that the economy depended on the trade. But she makes the point that after abolition other businesses were started. You make the point that these did not offer good working conditions either. But the push for better fairer treatment of each other is on-going, its utopian to consider otherwise when looking at our past. And reining in greed to get more dosh at the expense of workers, or union members at the expense of the public (as with the Cook Strait ferries) is an ongoing task.

    • prism 2.3
      5 September 2011 at 10:08 am

      @ Jim Nald Well that interview went through smoothly. What do you know how about the dissemination of a taped interview from public radio? Even if it could be bought from Replay Radio, it would be dear at about $25 I think for a 15 minute interview. Would anyone take exception if I distributed the taped interview? And what if I charged for the cost of the tape say $3? Any advice?

      • Jim Nald 2.3.1
        5 September 2011 at 10:39 am

        I thought Lynn Freeman ran the interview well and managed & allowed the interview to get the most out of Polly. Good questions asked also so there’s a good Nine-to-Noon team thinking and working well.

        Polly’s proposal is solidly grounded in law, legal/court practice, and comes from the right places. She probably very likely, in her previous job, advised corporations how to ‘catch them if [the law enforcers] can’. Also, from what she referred to about her closed meetings with corporations, corporations have told her they welcome an incentive, legal authority & the policy of nation-states to help them move on to a new, green economy.

        1. Google tells me info about Replay Radio is at:
        http://www.radionz.co.nz/replayradio

        2. Suggest you direct people to the RNZ webpage and the link to the podcast or streaming. That will be free with existing internet connection and just the power bill. The podcast should be up soon and I will be back here to note it for the benefit of all.

        3. Another option would be to download the podcast, convert that MP3 format to WAV, and burn it onto a CD that can play on standard CD players. *** BUT *** you should check with the RNZ folks first. We don’t want you to get into trouble over copyright, appropriate acknowledgments and charging!
        How about email ninetonoon@radionz.co.nz to ask?

        4. Bill – I have comments to that but that will have to wait till later. Go to her lecture tonight in AKL if possible and you can hear for yourself the argument, elaboration and clarification made out intelligently. Or ask your question.

    • KJT 2.4
      5 September 2011 at 6:24 pm

      Also works when you legislate for higher wages and more tax on the wealthy.

  3. Salsy 3
    5 September 2011 at 8:07 am

    Anyone know who bought the Crafar Farms? Rumour mill says they’ve been sold…!

  4. mickysavage 4
    5 September 2011 at 8:08 am

    So what I cannot get my head around is how Melissa Lee moved UP three places in National’s list.

    It is very obvious that they have a token ethnic representative bracket on their list and that talent and ability are not requirements to inhabit this list. 

  5. Pascal's bookie 5
    5 September 2011 at 8:15 am

    Like as not there were usual suspects pushing some climate change skepticism round these parts, based on some startling new research published peer reviewed NASA blah blah.

    Editor of the journal that published same has just issued mea culpa and resigned. paper was awful and should never have been published:

    http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/09/02/310889/editor-denier-bunk-resigns-spencer/

    Expect retractions in, nah.

    • joe90 5.1
      5 September 2011 at 1:01 pm

      More:
      “Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedback”

      The hype surrounding a new paper by Roy Spencer and Danny Braswell is impressive (see for instance Fox News); unfortunately the paper itself is not. News releases and blogs on climate denier web sites have publicized the claim from the paper’s news release that “Climate models get energy balance wrong, make too hot forecasts of global warming”. The paper has been published in a journal called Remote sensing which is a fine journal for geographers, but it does not deal with atmospheric and climate science, and it is evident that this paper did not get an adequate peer review. It should not have been published.

      And: Journal editor resigns over ‘flawed’ paper co-authored by climate sceptic

      John Abraham, an associate professor at the University of St Thomas’s school of engineering in Minnesota who criticised the Spencer paper upon its publication, told the Guardian: “It is remarkable that an editor-in-chief has stepped down from his role at a journal because of the publication of a flawed paper. This significant event reflects on the significance of the flaws in the paper and its review process. It is commendable that Wagner has reacted responsibly to the situation.”

      He continued: “Spencer and his colleagues have a long history of minimising the effects of human-caused climate change; they also have a long history of making serious technical errors. This latest paper is only one in a decade-long track record of errors that have forced Spencer to revise his work as the errors are brought to light. Spencer is well known in the scientific community for publishing high-profile papers that initially dispute global warming and only later are found to be faulty.

      “This latest article reportedly showed that the climate is not as sensitive to increases in greenhouse gases. It also called into question the cause-and-effect relationship between clouds and climate change. Wolfgang’s resignation was based on the quality of the review the paper received and the obvious technical errors which the paper contained.”

  6. travellerev 6
    5 September 2011 at 8:39 am

    Well here it is: Who runs the world!

    Not my paranoia after all but solid science. And Merrill Lynch, John Key’s bank is number 10 in the top 50 of most powerful economic actors.

  7. thejackal 7
    5 September 2011 at 10:04 am

    The Contradictions of David Farrar #1

    Now we all know David Farrar from Kiwibog can be inconsistent at the best of times, but once in a while he really outdoes himself…

  8. prism 8
    5 September 2011 at 10:11 am

    I wonder if Alan Hubbard was wearing his seat belt? Being precautionary like.

    • Tiger Mountain 8.1
      5 September 2011 at 11:12 am

      Autocide? prob not given the missus was reported to be at the wheel. Some of the cops car crash forensic investigations do turn up interesting details. Most NZ towns and regions have money lenders and rentiers that operate on patronage and the odd spot of sponsorship and philanthropy. They contribute to the local money go round, but once Hubbard became involved with bank guarantees and speccies his credibility was gone for good.

      • the pink postman 8.1.1
        6 September 2011 at 3:39 pm

        I realise the poor bugger is dead but I believe Hubbard and perhaps his wife were a couple of con people.,I also wonder just how many of those rich Canterbury investers would have supported him if the poor old tax payers had not paid out a billion dollars to them .I also wonder how many of those same people would support some poor Solo mum charged with pinching a few dollars to exist.?

  9. burt 9
    5 September 2011 at 10:33 am

    The one that got away… well not so much got away – was chased away.

    TV3 News: Multi millionaire businessman now backs National

    All in the Labour party who denigrated Glenn’s integrity to save Clark from admitting she was wrong backing a proven liar should resign in shame. “self serving” is what Glenn called Labour and Winston…. he was right. The message – “Don’t bite the hand that feeds you” springs to mind.

    • McFlock 9.1
      5 September 2011 at 1:02 pm

      Vaguely interesting – man who didn’t quite make it clear he was paying a bribe in exchange for a consulship (rather than just a donation) is explicitly stating he’s buying votes.

      c900,000 14 y.o. or under = c$100 to each family for every child they have, as long as they vote national. Fucker should be charged.

      • burt 9.1.1
        5 September 2011 at 1:41 pm

        McFlock

        You still upset he showed up the previous Labour party and Winston as liars ?

        • McFlock 9.1.1.1
          5 September 2011 at 4:40 pm

          Nah – I just don’t think he made it clear at the time he was trying to pay a bribe, rather than just making a donation to a party that had led the best government in 25 years (not that that’s saying much). 
             
          This time he’s being repulsively blunt about buying votes. The disgusting thing is that he probably will get away with making the offer, whether it works or not. 
             
          Does that count as third-party campaigning? Isn’t $100mil a tad over the limit? 

           

          • burt 9.1.1.1.1
            5 September 2011 at 4:50 pm

            Isn’t $100mil a tad over the limit?

            Isn’t $100,000 a tad over the limit ? Oh let me guess, it’s OK when it benefits the Labour-led govt ?

            • Ianupnorth 9.1.1.1.1.1
              5 September 2011 at 4:56 pm

              As posted yesterday, any donation should be to the country, not the government – give it to ChCh to fix the schools FFS!

              • burt …
                5 September 2011 at 5:01 pm

                So individuals should not be allowed to decide how they donate their own money ?

                • thejackal …
                  5 September 2011 at 7:04 pm

                  Not when they try to buy votes by waving it under the nose of the some 12,000 people who bothered to watch The Nation last Saturday. Let’s just see what the Police Commissioner has to say about it shall we.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  5 September 2011 at 7:45 pm

                  So individuals should not be allowed to decide how they donate their own money ?

                  Its more like no individual or organisation should be allowed to use their own money to subvert the course of democratic discussion, or to have more of a voice than someone else who does not have the same levels of money to spend.

              • burt …
                5 September 2011 at 5:17 pm

                You might also remember he has already donated a significant sum to ChCh. Was that not enough for you ?

            • McFlock 9.1.1.1.1.2
              5 September 2011 at 5:08 pm

              As opposed to being abhorrent when it’s NZ1, but okay when it’s National?

              Or okay when it’s the Brethren supporting National?
               
              Like I said, last time Glenn may or may not have adequately communicated that he was trying to bribe someone, rather than just make a donation. This time he’s outright said he will give X for Y. How much longer before he finally gets investigated under the electoral act?

              • burt …
                5 September 2011 at 5:16 pm

                How much longer before he finally gets investigated under the electoral act?

                Apparently all he needs to do is deny it long enough for the statue of limitations to expire then he can’t be prosecuted – if he can’t be prosecuted because the statute of limitations has expired then he’s exonerated and did nothing wrong – that was the position of the Labour-led govt.

                Or perhaps National can retrospectively validate his actions and the lovers of corruption will say it’s ALL OK.

                • McFlock …
                  5 September 2011 at 5:52 pm

                  How are Environment Canterbury going?
                  Oh, and anything else been pushed through under urgency lately? The list os so loooong…

          • burt 9.1.1.1.2
            5 September 2011 at 5:07 pm

            rather than just making a donation to a party that had led the best government in 25 years

            We didn’t even know that he had donated it – Winston didn’t declare it and continued to deny it (with his “NO” sign) till such time as he had to admit it….

            And you call a govt that takes donations and fails to declare them the best govt in 25 years…. Is corruption one of the big things you like in govt ?

            • McFlock 9.1.1.1.2.1
              5 September 2011 at 5:50 pm

              Nah, it’s not the main factor.  I prefer to judge a government by it’s record on GDP, addressing inequality, child health, housing, employment,  infrastructure investment, mortality rates, public health, inflation, and so on. Corruption is included, but as a negative.
                  
              This govt fails on all counts.

            • mik e 9.1.1.1.2.2
              5 September 2011 at 6:09 pm

              Poor old Pansey Wong and her rip off husband with their good friend Shipley .
              Jail time
              Or coverup!

  10. mickysavage 10
    5 September 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Hey Tolley, how about this for a league table?
     
    Six New Zealand institutions feature in the Quacquarelli Symonds World University Rankings and five of them have slipped down.
     
    Auckland Uni went from 68th to 82nd.
     
    According to Vice-chancellor Stuart McCutcheon New Zealand’s overall result is worrying but not unexpected.  “Mr McCutcheon says the Government’s tertiary education spending is weighted toward student support, rather than toward improving the quality of tertiary institutions.”
     
    Shouldn’t you like be doing something about it?

    • gingercrush 10.1
      5 September 2011 at 12:50 pm

      Is Tolley tertiary minister? No.

      • mickysavage 10.1.1
        5 September 2011 at 12:58 pm

        Oops right you are.  Obviously need more coffee.  Will try again.

        Hey Joyce, how about this for a league table?
         
        Six New Zealand institutions feature in the Quacquarelli Symonds World University Rankings and five of them have slipped down.
         
        Auckland Uni went from 68th to 82nd.
         
        According to Vice-chancellor Stuart McCutcheon New Zealand’s overall result is worrying but not unexpected.  “Mr McCutcheon says the Government’s tertiary education spending is weighted toward student support, rather than toward improving the quality of tertiary institutions.”
         
        Shouldn’t you like be doing something about it?
         

        • Joe Bloggs 10.1.1.1
          5 September 2011 at 7:35 pm

          tedious repeater. Correlation doesn’t imply causation…

          That deterioration in standards is a result of lower entry criteria and easy access to low-interest student loans from the last labour admin to cozy up to light-weight impressionable first-time voters…

          • Colonial Viper 10.1.1.1.1
            5 September 2011 at 7:42 pm

            I have a feeling its more because Australian universities (for instance) have way better pay and facilities to attract and keep good staff members.

            And have superior post grad scholarships too, so accepting a PhD programme in Oz instead of New Zealand is the thing to do, if you are offered it.

            • mik e 10.1.1.1.1.1
              5 September 2011 at 9:28 pm

              R&D cuts wouldn’t have any thing to do with it no no.
              running universities into ground capping funding no no .
              No increases in staff wages .
              Having universities going back to the competitive model.
              Steven Joyce as tertiary minister.Stickto petrol sniffing and building holiday highways to john Keys bach.
              Then our universities might start climbing again.

      • marsman 10.1.2
        5 September 2011 at 12:59 pm

        No, Sneaky Steven Joyce is.

      • Tiger Mountain 10.1.3
        5 September 2011 at 1:20 pm

        Is Tolley tertiary minister? No…–Gingercrush.

        That would be Hollowman Joyce. A fullyformed professional rightwinger, Tolley is just an amateur.

  11. joe90 11
    5 September 2011 at 1:14 pm

    News you may have missed #582

    US government conceals Bush surveillance memos.

    Ex-CIA bin Laden Unit boss wants rendition back

    French firm helped Gaddafi spy on opposition.

  12. randal 12
    5 September 2011 at 1:46 pm

    Be careful micky savage. If you ask real questions then some tory jackanapes is going to jump up and accuse you of being mean and spiteful because you want the truth.

  13. Brett Dale 13
    5 September 2011 at 2:03 pm

    Colonial Viper:

    Cspan, NPR are all class, dont think all usa media outlets to the likes of Fox News.

  14. AAMC 14
    5 September 2011 at 2:32 pm

    “Why are the failings of capitalism only being exposed by the right?”

    http://m.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/21/ed-miliband-capitalism-rightwing-critics?cat=commentisfree&type=article

    OK, not even the right are asking the questions here (other than Hickey and Morgan), but the criticism against the left – the politicians and intellectuals, not the activists – in this article seem pretty consistent with what we see here.

    Is it really just because the media is corrupt, or do people need to be yelling louder, speaking more truthfully and provocatively?

    Because, to quote / steal the punchline…”for Labour’s old crusade to make capitalism virtuous, it is a case of: “If not now, when?”

    • Draco T Bastard 14.1
      5 September 2011 at 2:48 pm

      Can’t make capitalism virtuous as all the slime (psychopaths) rise to the top and then corruption sets in.

      • AAMC 14.1.1
        5 September 2011 at 3:18 pm

        Too true, but not the point; it seems the people most vocal about it’s current predicament are from the Right.

        Why aren’t the Left, not the activists but the leaders, the MP’s, the intellectuals, taking the opportunity of the current situation – that even the climate and peak oil and everything else deniers can’t deny – inequality, unemployment, the markets, the double dip depression, the failings of austerity and the surely irrefutable failing of the neo-liberal ideal?

        I already know you don’t buy it DTB, but the public aren’t hearing a decent conversation from the people who represent them, cause their all too busy playing the political game and pandering to their fear of the focus group. And they can’t continue to blame that on the Right, or on the media, the media is reporting it all around the world, just not from the mouths of the Left.

        • just saying 14.1.1.1
          5 September 2011 at 5:54 pm

          I’ve said it before. If the paliamentarians allegedly representing the left did their job they would be reported. Meaningless waffle will only be reported when it comes out of the arse, I mean mouth of Key.

  15. AAMC 15
    5 September 2011 at 5:56 pm

    And they currently have a global narrative upon which to hang it.

  17. Herodotus 17
    5 September 2011 at 6:58 pm

    We get this from Ant R0b – Which technically is niot a racists comment
    http://thestandard.org.nz/cheeky-darkie-holmes-at-it-again/#comment-350235
    But what outcry is there resulting from this?
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10749568
    Pity principles are less important than the “us” versus “them” attitude

  18. uke 18
    5 September 2011 at 8:07 pm

    One of the big stories of the moment that our bloody useless MSM have been ignoring is an ongoing series of massive demonstrations in Israel over the rising cost of living, rents in particular. On Saturday, some 430 000 people took part in marches across the country. That’s over 5% of the population and the largest show of public anger since “400,000 that took to the streets in September 1982 to protest Israel’s role in the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla refugee camp in Beirut” (WSWS). The marchers apparently include both Jewish-Israelis and Arab-Israelis. Some links:
     
    400,000 rally for social justice across the country (Jerusalem Post)
     
    Israeli protests: 430,000 take to streets to demand social justice (The Guardian)
     
    Israel’s largest ever protests oppose inequality (WSWS)

    • Herodotus 18.1
      5 September 2011 at 8:23 pm

      uke what 1st world country is not experiencing this phenomena ?
      If this news item was given air to breath imagine all those out there that may realise that the current system is not working for them !!!
      Couple this with that CEOs, corporations and the like are creaming it e.g Ref Joe 16 above, and there are some out there wanting to give to this group even more, so how do we fund societial needs?
      http://news.scotland.efinancialcareers.co.uk/newsandviews_item/newsItemId-34339
      The utilitarian society that many of us experienced is only unfortunately here in name only.

      • uke 18.1.1
        6 September 2011 at 7:52 am

        Yep, you’re right – it’s part of this bigger problem. But I think the neglect of these Israeli protests is a good test-case for MSM bias. They just don’t fit right-wing narratives about Israel (or left-wing ones for that matter). Who would ever think that Israeli society might be suffering the social inequality problems like other Western countries?
         
        Guess we haven’t quite experienced the mass protest-rioting stage in NZ. If NACT win the upcoming election, however, I am confident we would see a big riot within the next 3 years.

        • Deborah Kean 18.1.1.1
          6 September 2011 at 3:17 pm

          Yep, you’re right – it’s part of this bigger problem. But I think the neglect of these Israeli protests is a good test-case for MSM bias.

          They were however mentioned on the BBC WS – albeit briefly…

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.