Open mike 06/11/2023

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 6th, 2023 - 34 comments
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Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

34 comments on “Open mike 06/11/2023 ”

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  1. bwaghorn 1
    6 November 2023 at 7:07 am

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/301001586/jehan-casinader-oranga-tamariki-stopped-uplifting-children-is-this-what-we-wanted

    My thoughts are that if a child's name is registered as Ruthless, they should be removed immediately as there is no hope for them in a family that damaged.

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    6 November 2023 at 7:51 am

    Our primary exponent of commercial democracy thus far has been a union:

    As a free-market think tank, the Taxpayers’ Union’s principles are clear, and it has declared its association with the global Atlas Network umbrella group.

    But is it acceptable for the funding of such an influential group to be a black box? And what about its direct influence on politicians and policy? Timothy Kuhner, an associate professor of law at the University of Auckland, says the lack of transparency from third-party promoters is problematic.

    The public’s probably familiar with the concepts of hard and soft power: the former using a stick or a gun to gain influence; and the latter attempting to persuade people with values or investment. Kuhner says there’s another type called conditioned power, in which groups construct issues in a way that’s favourable to their interests.

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/investigations/chiding-in-plain-sight

    The basic idea of a union is to represent common interests of members. Like-minded supporters can contribute funds regardless of whether they're members or not. This enabling of commercial democracy by both left & right remains consensual.

    Conceive politics as deriving from a structural triad: voters/representatives/govt. Insert lobby groups (PACs in the USA) into this process and you get a tetrad. The process of democracy gets commercialised and becomes a different beast.

    you get these registered promoters who can start to outspend political parties or outmanoeuvre political parties, and what they’re trying to do is kind of construct a very different type of political will – which is a political will tailored to, generally, the economic interests of their supporters. Sometimes it’s the ideological interests of their supporters. “But either way, it’s unaccountable, and it’s opaque. The label I would put on all this stuff is privatisation of democracy.”

    He's an academic, so naturally he gets the labelling wrong. Democracy remains public. What he thinks is private is actually commercial. The deal or transaction is an exchange of influence for money, out of which you get leverage on the process.

    • Incognito 2.1
      6 November 2023 at 9:09 pm

      You are you, so naturally you must make a snarky and disrespectful comment about somebody else’s opinion, especially when that person is an academic.

      In any case, you’re wrong and you’ve not understood anything of what the Newsroom article and particularly that academic said.

      Lift your game – how many times do I need to say this to you?

  3. Tiger Mountain 3
    6 November 2023 at 8:24 am

    It is surely time for a New Zealand labour movement industrial response to the Israeli butchers at Gaza.

    Transport bans, and local action against any company that supports the operations, one way or another, of the IDF would be a good start.

    Plus BDS as per usual–Boycott, Divest, Sanction. There is a fair amount of misinformation on this re Nike, Puma etc. so go to source perhaps…
    https://bdsmovement.net/get-involved/what-to-boycott

      • Tiger Mountain 3.1.1
        6 November 2023 at 8:46 am

        Great stuff, and other tentative moves (because so many are still wary of challenging Israel’s occupation) around the world’s unions. The Israeli State and Military are hyper sensitive to any challenge so that is why we need to sticker Sodastream's and Tahini etc.

        The Israeli troll farms went ballistic a couple of years back just because Lorde declined to play there.

        The least NZ workers can do is to accept some personal employment risk in solidarity with Palestinians.

    • SPC 3.2
      6 November 2023 at 1:47 pm

      Maybe the MSM might get around to reporting this …

      A nurse was killed and a doctor and driver were seriously injured on Monday as a result of a guided rocket attack by Syrian regime forces on a car carrying a medical team on a road connecting Benish and Taftanaz in the Idlib countryside.

      Since the beginning of October, cities and towns in northwestern Syria have witnessed a military escalation by Syrian government forces and Russia, the most intense in nearly three years. Over 65 civilians, including more than 20 children and 10 women, have been killed and more than 265 civilians, including 80 children and 45 women, have been injured, according to a Syrian volunteer emergency rescue group.

      “Our teams responded to over 250 attacks on 70 cities and towns in northwestern Syria until October 28th,” said Ahmed Yazji, a board member of Syria Civil Defence.

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/31/northwest-syria-witnesses-most-intense-military-escalation-in-three-years

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    6 November 2023 at 8:42 am

    Gender equity update: https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/06-11-2023/a-national-act-nz-first-government-would-mean-a-whole-lot-of-men-in-charge-again

    From the 2023 results, women will make up 45.1% of MPs in the coming term. Were National, Act and NZ First to form a government, women would make up just 34.5% of it.

    Compared to the almost-balanced parliament, the govt in prospect is 2/3 men.

    • Peter 4.1
      6 November 2023 at 11:25 am

      The are likely to be a lot of old rural women happy at steps being made to them being back where they should be – in aprons in kitchens. While men take care of the important stuff.

      • Belladonna 4.1.1
        6 November 2023 at 1:07 pm

        Am picking that you don't know many rural women.

        • Adrian 4.1.1.1
          6 November 2023 at 1:27 pm

          Doesn't know any and never received a clip under the ear from one either.. but keep talking like that and its not far away.

    • Ad 4.2
      6 November 2023 at 12:30 pm

      The people spoke really clearly.

      Not just some imaginary set of Country Women's Institute scone-bakers. Millions of women voted against the left, despite Ardern leading far and away the most female-friendly government in political memory.

      We also might want to inhale a bit until there's a cabinet list before we complain about who precisely is in and out of power.

  5. Francesca 5
    6 November 2023 at 8:51 am

    This is a bit of a worry though , been trending this way for a while

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/04/plans-to-redefine-extremism-would-include-undermining-uk-values

    When even the Guardian reports on it!

    • Dennis Frank 5.1
      6 November 2023 at 9:12 am

      In the perpetual competition amongst rightists to see who will win the title of Dork Supreme, Gove is proving a persistent contender. Probably insufficiently savvy to fully grasp the potential of his labelling technique.

      Once listed as extremist, young rebels will glory in their tag. It will prove a generational escalator to power, wealth and fame. The marketing opportunities are limitless. Anyone with spare cash ought to find a plastic factory in China & commission a zillion extremist badges for the listed rebels and copycats…

    • tc 5.2
      6 November 2023 at 1:22 pm

      Guardians an establishment outlet IMO running tory narratives such as the Corbyn smear.

      No surprise that one of the major players of the brexit con is behind this in Michael Gove.

    • SPC 5.3
      6 November 2023 at 2:21 pm

      When conglomerates form cartels and or lobby the government for industry favour – such as to silence those environmentalists or those Occupy Wall Street anti-capitalists …

      When institutions of state seek to act on their behalf without noting they might also use the same legislation to silence those who question the defence build-ups, foreign policy, the secret surveillance state … and covert psy ops against the public …

      Otherwise it's comforting that someone in the UK government believes in their traditional values – it had appeared that mere lip service had been offered up in recent decades (lies about WMD in Iraq, the setting up of the dodgy Fixated Threat Assessment Centre 2006 etc, police getting involved in matters of free speech as well as hate speech).

      They just need to note that organising to realise change is part of democratic practice and citizens have a right to do it as much as those corporate cartels/industry lobbyists who contact Minister's parties and MP's. Establishment figures distinguishing between those acting in accord with traditional values and those not, is more than mere conservatism, it implies the UK is imploding into a paranoid insecure regime since Brexit. Panic in the London clubs at the prospect of Tories losing power … ?

      • Visubversa 5.3.1
        6 November 2023 at 2:52 pm

        The Policing of "wrongthink".

        https://www.faircop.org.uk/case-studies/harry-miller/

        "I need to check your thinking,’ says PC Gul.

        I point out that 1984 is a dystopian novel and not a how-to manual but the reference is lost on PC Gul. He’s been on a course. Just not a very literary one.

        The following week, the assistant chief constable threw the full weight of his bulging ACPO lapel behind his constable, sternly warning about escalation and proportionate action whilst publicly labelling me a transphobe. Just in case I hadn’t got the message (I had – I ignored it) Inspector Wilson called, urging me to disengage with public political debate. I reminded him of my Article 10 Rights. His response was, ‘If you don’t like it, sue.’

        • SPC 5.3.1.1
          6 November 2023 at 3:16 pm

          My own formal interface in this area was when police first asked a local NZ Post shop to stop sending faxes of mine to the US embassy (explanations of why going into Iraq was wrong) and then one said any letters I sent would be intercepted.

          I was later one of those questioned after a threat to a visiting golfer, because opposing American wars, is opposing American security, is being a threat to Americans and makes one a fellow traveller of "unAmerican born POTUS Barack Obama on Air Force One".

          • Anne 5.3.1.1.1
            6 November 2023 at 6:45 pm

            At least in your case they were open about what they were doing. In 1999 I was approached by a young American in an unusual set of circumstances while exercising my dog on North Head, Devonport. It was on the same day President Clinton arrived in NZ. He claimed to have just arrived as an exchange Massey university student. During the course of a general conversation I smilingly suggested to him that he had come all this way to get away from his president only to find he [said president] had followed him here. I wish I had been able to take a photo of his facial expression. It was priceless. He was either Secret Service or CIA checking up on me – just in case I had plans to do their beloved pressi some harm. Talk about being so obvious and gauche. Was never seen again.

            I had worked with a former US Marine Officer on the aforementioned NZ Defence Force base in the 1980s. No prizes for guessing what he was really up to at such an apposite time in our anti-nuclear history.

            • SPC 5.3.1.1.1.1
              6 November 2023 at 6:58 pm

              The week before APEC 1999 was an interesting time for a few of us. I have a story, or two, about that time. The way police chose to create an incident to coincide with their reply to a letter to the Police Minister and I also communicated an opine to the American embassy about the matter of independence for East Timor and Indonesia's future territorial integrity.

              • Anne …
                6 November 2023 at 7:12 pm

                Did it involve police cars making intimidatory movements in your presence? They are quite prone to such behaviour when it takes their fancy.

                • SPC …
                  6 November 2023 at 7:18 pm

                  They said that without photo ID, DL or passport, I could not prove I was the homeowner of my property.

  6. Dennis Frank 6
    6 November 2023 at 9:02 am

    Stuff reporter does stylistic analysis of Winston in launch campaign mode:

    As the smash hit by Kiwi band Hello Sailor – gutter black –played in the background. Peters appeared, with Costello at his side.

    He wore his classic pinstripe suit, black shiny leather shoes with a point, and his greying locks were combed into place – with what appeared to be early signs of a rattail, a popular hairdo among the younger folk.

    Stuff helpfully provides a close-up of the rat-tail taken from behind Winston.

    When Costello spoke, he wore a face of deep concentration, writing the whole time.

    Taking notes from your candidates's speech is most unusual. I suspect a lawyer's analytic tendency at play here. Could also be a machiavellian motive of course.

    A while later, after the speeches, when an audience question was thrown to Costello, he stood behind her with his arms crossed, before unfolding them and wringing his hands together.

    He immediately started stroking his face near his hairline, inspected his hand and then ran his fingers over his fingernails before swapping places to take his spot behind the podium again.

    Yes, I get that gesturing is antique biological signalling, but let's not overdo it.

    When it came to his speech, he had plenty to say. Mostly about the media. He took a dig at TVNZ reporter Jack Tame – with descriptions like moron and left wing shills. He had a go at a recent Stuff article, which he’d printed out on an A4 sheet of paper. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/301002680/kingmaker-winston-peters-blasts-the-media-and-left-wing-shills-in-nz-first-speech

    Media critique is always helpful. Especially when it enables a venerable member of the establishment to play on the political stage as an anti-establishment rebel. Trumpian.

  7. Anne 7
    6 November 2023 at 9:40 am

    For political historians and anyone who was a part of the anti-nuclear movement of the 70s and 80s (includes the Labour Party) should be very interested in the following story:

    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-secret-history-of-the-battle-over-nzs-nuclear-free-policy#:~:text=Author%20and%20former%20anti%2Dnuclear,him%20to%20seek%20his%20help.

    PM David Lange, DPM Geoffrey Palmer and Defence Minister Frank O'Flynn sabotaged a plan by NZ and US officials to scuttle the anti-nuclear legislation. The hero of the day was Nicky Hager. NZ owes him a huge thank-you. I owe him an even bigger thank-you for revealing something that is quintessential to my own experiences I have alluded to here from time to time.

    The dark under-belly of the times had their genesis in the Muldoon years.

    • Tiger Mountain 7.1
      6 November 2023 at 10:00 am

      Brilliant piece from Nicky, thanks for bringing it to our attention Anne.

      I have long maintained that Nicky Hager, as well as being one of our few public intellectuals, is a true New Zealand patriot.

      The backroom officials networks are still a pestilence on our democracy as the Police and establishment reactions to Mr Hager’s work have illustrated.

      • Anne 7.1.1
        6 November 2023 at 10:16 am

        As Hager postulates at the end of the story;

        In the decades since the nuclear free showdown, I’ve seen the same thing again and again. Strong political leaders can at times wrestle control, like Helen Clark refusing to join the invasion of Iraq when the military and foreign affairs staff were reflexively trying to push New Zealand into it. But on most issues, most of the time, the same non-democratic grouping of the heads of defence, foreign affairs and the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet have had far more influence over defence and foreign policy than the elected politicians and vastly more than members of the public.

        So, the story has relevance and implications for the crises of current times.

        • SPC 7.1.1.1
          6 November 2023 at 2:41 pm

          when the military and foreign affairs staff were reflexively trying to push New Zealand into it.

          And the police who were asked to, or chose to, take the (CIA sourced …) threat to an American golfer seriously by treating left wingers opposed to the war in Iraq as suspects.

          • Anne 7.1.1.1.1
            6 November 2023 at 5:21 pm

            I approached the police on several occasions and reported the criminal activity that was occurring in the 1980s and again in the early 1990s following the commencement of 'Operation Desert Storm'. (I was working on a Defence Force base during the second round) and they refused to conduct an investigation.

            It left me feeling hurt and humiliated as though they believed I was making it all up. I suspect now they were told by someone not to conduct any investigation.

    • SPC 7.2
      6 November 2023 at 3:03 pm

      We can note that at times of crisis, the tendency of state power to increasse.

      1. The Foreshore and Seabed legislation and the dissent of those who formed the Maori Party

      The Special Police Unit that then formed later invaded the Urewera's to inspect a group of iwi warriors who wanted to corner the pig hunting market in the area (which has only played into their hands as concessions since have guaranteed this outcome).

      2. The mosque attack

      The Fixated Threat Assessment Centre 2019 (modelled on one formed in the UK 2006). Presumably they have Liz Gunn under close watch – given all the others could nar get above naught to lead a revolution against the power of those in government office.

      Without compliance to the will of the foreign protectorate – then came the Rainbow Warrior bombing, then land of milk and honey economy facing the invasion of white clover leaf weevil and varrua jacobsini beemite and some didymo – the sort of economic sabotage we usually associate with sanctions against a left wing state applied here when National chose to stay with the nuclear free policy (see sanctions against oil industry tech to Venezuela when they elected a socialist President).

      If anyone here suspected it … what did they say to Josiah (5 Eyes) Beeman when he was here as Ambassador?

      I wrote him a letter and told him that their tariffs on our lamb exports were not things proper men do to such animals and taking up the Noahide standard I had raised I asked him to inform the CIA to be pro human rights in future. I note that a few years ago, when a woman was appointed Director, she apologised for her involvement in rendition and water boarding.

  8. Dennis Frank 8
    6 November 2023 at 1:46 pm

    In commercial democracy the deepest pockets get the maximum leverage:

    On election day here, Australians voted in the indigenous ‘The Voice’ referendum. The previous month, Australian academic Jeremy Walker, a senior lecturer in social and political sciences at University of Technology Sydney, published a paper in the journal Cosmopolitan Civil Societies, summarising his research into the ‘No’ vote.

    One of the anti-Voice campaign’s themes, that its implementation would divide Australians on the basis of race, was similar to the New Zealand Act Party’s election campaign slogan and billboards of ending “division by race”. Walker’s article argues the ‘No’ campaign was conducted on behalf of fossil-fuel corporations and their allies, and coordinated by the Australian branches of the Atlas Network – the “mother of all think tanks”; a global umbrella organisation for 515 public policy research institutes.

    Atlas’s stated aim is to “litter the world with free-market think-tanks”, Walker’s article states. The network has a “permanent anti-climate policy campaign”, the article says. https://www.newsroom.co.nz/investigations/chiding-in-plain-sight-part-two

    Limited disclosure laws prevent Australians from knowing who finances that country’s Atlas organisations which, Walker writes, gives rise to the possibility of “dark money” from fossil fuel and mining companies.

    Privacy laws assist corporate lobby groups by masking their funding sources. Left & right routinely collude to maintain the mask. This BAU protection system is what the Labour Party will continue to support when it gets its act together, I expect. Absolutely vital to maintain control of the democratic process to protect the establishment!

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