Open mike 08/11/13

Written By: - Date published: 7:32 am, November 8th, 2013 - 134 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

openmike

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy). Step right up to the mike…

134 comments on “Open mike 08/11/13 ”

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  2. Morrissey 2
    8 November 2013 at 7:43 am

    National’s lazy, loutish junior cabinet ministers and back-benchers
    Lack of talent is really starting to hurt the Government

    Yesterday (Thursday 7 November 2013) it was revealed that police were lying when they claimed that they had not received any complaints from victims of the notorious West Auckland rape club the Roastbusters. If you watched parliamentary question time yesterday, you saw a clearly stressed Police Minister Ann Tolley struggling (during Question No. 2) to defend this latest instance of police calumny and/or corruption and/or incompetence and, even worse, the failure of the Government to do anything about it. As the ashen-faced Tolley struggled on, viewers’ attention would have been captured not by her substandard performance, but by what was going on in the seat behind her. A vacant-looking young man was nodding his head sedulously. Throughout Tolley’s halting performance, he continued to mug and to grin and to nod vigorously. It was an extraordinary dumb-show, a forlorn display of obedient partisanship for a lost cause. It stood out because the rest of Tolley’s beleaguered National colleagues had assumed expressions of blankness and embarrassment.

    The obedient, vacant young man was actually the Rt. Hon. Simon Bridges, and his extraordinary display was just the first of a forlorn procession yesterday of the National Party’s long tail of under-performers and non-performers.

    After Tolley was taken off the rack, it was time for Question No. 3—-a patsy asked by another National nonentity, Paul Goldsmith. Followers of parliament will realize that asking patsy questions is all that Paul Goldsmith has been allowed to do during his ignominiously obscure time as a List MP who got there only because he allowed himself to be the stooge or ghost candidate in Epsom, where National’s obedient supporters had been instructed not to vote for him, but for the ACT lout John Banks instead. (Party orders, you see—you don’t earn a nice house in Epsom by not doing what you’re told.)

    Goldsmith’s lowly ranking in the National caucus, and his humble role as patsy question asker, is interesting—and it indicates a lot about the National Party. Paul Goldsmith is actually one of the few National Party members with a sharp intellect—he wrote an excellent history of New Zealand tax law a few years ago—but he has languished in the lowest ranks of the caucus, while a dullard like Simon Bridges has been made a cabinet minister.

    A little later, I tuned in to the debate and heard Labour’s Rajan Prasad make a very effective speech. He was followed by another of National’s long tail of benchwarmers, Mike Sabin, whose speech consisted of a sarcastic remark about Prasad, a vague and insincere tribute to the members of a parliamentary committee—and nothing else.

    Sabin was followed by Labour’s Sue Moroney. She spoke clearly and forcefully—but throughout her speech she was subjected to loud, sarcastic barracking by….yes, you guessed it—-Simon Bridges. The Member for Tauranga’s constant stream of rude comments was neither robust nor witty, merely sarcastic and bumptious.

    Any honest observer of parliament will admit that the gulf in front-bench talent between National and Labour is stark. The commanding performance in the House by the new Labour leader David Cunliffe, and by his Green colleagues, has underlined the superiority of the liberal left.

    And at the lower reaches, where the likes of Mike Sabin, Paul Goldsmith, Louise Upston, David Bennett and Tim McIndoe are snoozing and doing nothing other than shouting out inane interjections, there is simply no contest.

  3. millsy 3
    8 November 2013 at 7:55 am

    Well, its been 5 (long) years since we last had a Labour government. On the 8th of November, 2008, on a sunny day just like this, New Zealand tossed out Helen Clark and brought in John Key. And the way some people carried on, it was like the Berlin Wall falling all over again, and, to add insult to injury, Roger Douglas returned to Parliament…

    Other memories of that night included Hooten carrying on like a kid in a candy store, and trying to assure everyone who cared to listen that this government would be ‘very moderate’, while also warning everyone of people from Treasury and Reserve Bank knocking on Key’s door with bad news, Roger Douglas warning us all that there will be a lot of pain ahead, and it is our fault because we wanted free stuff, and Helen Clark stepping down, an entirely nessesary action if Labour was to return to power any time soon, too bad there was no obvious candidate to replace her, so Goff was chosen. TVNZ 7 (remember that?) showed footage of the 84 election, too bad the government got rid of both those channels — could have been the basis for a new era in PSTV..

    We never really did find out what was in that mini-budget…its an open secret that some of the posters on here are Labour insiders, anyone has any info? Rumor had it that the Marsden Point rail link was in there…

    Im not going to go into detail in regards to the “achievements” of the Fifth National government (have been over them so many times), but I note that in my town at least, the local polytech used to run a slather of ACE classes — since the government cut the funding (by 90%), there is nothing.

    • Tat Loo (CV) 3.1
      8 November 2013 at 9:04 am

      too bad the government got rid of both those channels — could have been the basis for a new era in PSTV..

      That’s what happens when Labour doesn’t adequately Tory Proof progressive enterprises. Its like shooting fish in a barrel for the Nats.

    • KJT 3.2
      8 November 2013 at 9:09 am

      Don’t you mean 38 “long” years since the last Labour Government?

      Labour was voted out and Muldoon got in, in 1975.

      Then there was the first ACT Government.

      Then 9 years of continued National light, benny bashing and voodoo economics.

      • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1
        8 November 2013 at 9:53 am

        +1

        And the voodoo economics has been around awhile. The last time the government created money directly in this country was, IIRC, the 1st Labour government. We’ve been borrowing at interest and going deeper in debt ever since.

      • millsy 3.2.2
        8 November 2013 at 9:36 pm

        I would rather have Muldoon than Key — Sir Robert had our backs against the corporates. Growing up during the Great Depression gives people a sense of perspective that the likes of Simon Bridges and Jami-Lee Ross will never have.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2.1
          8 November 2013 at 11:21 pm

          Yep. One of the things that they learned was that socialism was necessary to keep society functioning. The pure capitalism that resulted in The Great Depression taught many lessons – lessons that we’ve forgotten to our cost.

  4. phillip ure 4
    8 November 2013 at 8:46 am

    http://www.alternet.org/marijuana-miracle-5-exciting-new-discoveries-about-pot

    (excerpt:..)

    “..The discovery of pot’s astonishing medical potential –

    – is the most compelling new reason for legalizing the plant.

    Cannabidiol (CBD) – a nonpsychoactive component of the cannabis plant – is generating quite a buzz among medical scientists and health professionals.

    Nothing else is able to help treatment-resistant epileptic children with Dravet syndrome and related disorders.

    On August 11 2013 Dr. Sanjay Gupta’s nationally televised report on CNN discussed the astonishing transformation of Charlotte Figi –

    – a 7-year-old epileptic who had 300 “tonic-clonic” seizures a week – until she ingested a CBD-infused tincture.

    She has been nearly seizure-free since her parents began giving her a daily dose of CBD.

    Nor is Charlotte an isolated case:

    – dozens of families with children suffering from intractable epilepsy are reporting dramatic results with cannabidiol. .”

    (cont..)

    phillip ure..

    • Lanthanide 4.1
      8 November 2013 at 10:06 am

      Er, you don’t need to legalise joints in order for a medicine to be made from the plant.

      Just like how you can get medical cocaine and obviously morphine.

      • weka 4.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 10:23 am

        “Er, you don’t need to legalise joints in order for a medicine to be made from the plant.”

        You do if you want to make it accessible.

        • Tat Loo (CV) 4.1.1.1
          8 November 2013 at 10:39 am

          In fact, in this country, it’s an offence to just grow the plant. Let alone harvest it or do anything with it.

          • Lanthanide 4.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2013 at 8:03 pm

            I know that Canterbury University psychology department routinely uses cocaine and other addictive, otherwise-illegal drugs in their studies on rats.

            • Tat Loo (CV) 4.1.1.1.1.1
              8 November 2013 at 9:55 pm

              yeah, though I think a more respectful term for freshers should be used if possible.

              ***just kidding***

        • Lanthanide 4.1.1.2
          8 November 2013 at 8:02 pm

          Not sure what you mean by “make it accessible”. It’s not like you’d be able to make this medicine at home. Any legitimate business that wants to manufacture this medicine would be able to apply for a license or permission to do so – of course they’d have to prove that it wasn’t going to be used for illicit purposes, which would increase costs, but fundamentally there shouldn’t be anything stopping them from manufacturing if they meet the required conditions.

  5. xtasy 5
    8 November 2013 at 8:48 am

    WINZ “Designated Doctors”, at least some of them known to be “hatchet doctors”, knocking many sick and disabled off benefits, and doing the “dirty work” for Paula Bennett and her MSD top dogs, here is some crucial reading and studying for you:

    http://accforum.org/forums/index.php?/topic/15463-designated-doctors-%e2%80%93-used-by-work-and-income-some-also-used-by-acc/

    This is a comprehensive summary (with many links to resources for more information, with some selected PDF files containing sensitive information) that shines light on what has been going on, and what is going on in the “welfare area”!

    It was already all started under the National governments in the 1990s, was quietly continued under Labour, although in a more moderate form, but has been escalated since National came back into power in 2008.

    Dr David Bratt is the “Dark Knight” overseeing it all, and has apparently led to a “culture change” at WINZ, when it comes to medical assessments, now highly reliant on the bizarre “bio psycho-social model” that Professor Mansel from the UK “perverted” to design it to best suit governments, ACC and insurers, for the purpose of “off loading” sick and disabled from claims.

    See also this interesting link to older info, which shows what the result of ‘Work Capacity Assessments’ was in the late 1990s, when the National government and MSD ran a first “trial” then:

    http://www.dol.govt.nz/publication-view.asp?ID=45

    • gorj 5.1
      8 November 2013 at 1:44 pm

      Cheers xtasy,

      Watch Aylward from 2:14 in Getting Better at Work video, chilling stuff..

      Link here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPNqBJ4n-x0#t=154

      Thoughts..

      David Bratt’s smug argument: “Doctors used to recommend people smoked” Excuse Me Son – are you saying your evidence is as compelling as the evidence against smoking? Or are you saying don’t trust medical orthodoxy, aren’t you trying to push a new orthodoxy, son?

      Maybe people have bad health when on a benefit because

      1. The benefit levels are barely survivable, no proper food or healthcare
      2. The stress of dealing with WINZ
      3. Social stigma and discrimination

      • Colonial Viper 5.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 1:48 pm

        And the fact that not having enough money to live on is often only one of many stressful factors in their lives, but one which makes every other one much worse.

      • xtasy 5.1.2
        8 November 2013 at 5:36 pm

        “David Bratt’s smug argument: “Doctors used to recommend people smoked””

        Yeaah! I thought the same gorj! Here Bratt goes on about “absurd” advice that doctors once supposedly gave to some people, and then he thinks he gets away with telling us, that work is “therapeutic” and the “best medicine” to get well from ill health and even disability!?

        By the way, I have in my whole life time never heard of, nor ever met a doctor, who recommended that smoking is good for your health.

        Maybe Bratt realises he is standing in a corner, has no “compelling evidence”, and now sees a need to distract from his own nonsense, by making such bizarre comments?

        I’d say to him: It is time to retire, mate! The same applies to Mansel Aylward, who looks rather sickly also, same as Bratt, as their work seems to be doing little good for their health!

        I am pro physical and mental activity, pro work, where it fits a person’s true capabilities, skills and interests, and where it is offered on fair, reasonable conditions and decent pay, but that is NOT, what they are on about! Work should also not be “forced” on sick or disabled, and that is what they are doing, although they claim exactly the opposite at WINZ. Only an inclusive, constructive and supportive application of welfare policies to assist sick and disabled into work is acceptable.

        • karol 5.1.2.1
          8 November 2013 at 5:48 pm

          “Doctors used to recommend people smoked””

          That was way back at the beginning of the 19th century, or earlier.

          I think originally in the Americas, people there saw it as having medicinal qualities.

          In 1571, a Spanish doctor named Nicolas Monardes wrote a book about the history of medicinal plants of the new world. In this he claimed that tobacco could cure 36 health problems.

          [..]
          Tobacco as a commercial product first arrived in the Ottoman Empire in the late 16th century.[14]
          When tobacco first arrived in the Ottoman Empire, it attracted the attention of doctors[15] and became a commonly prescribed medicine for many ailments.

          I read somewhere recently that doctors in the 19th century UK used to often prescribe tobacco for some ailments. Maybe here.

          But whatever… I wouldn’t trust how Bratt uses such information. How is he still being listened to by authorities?

          • xtasy 5.1.2.1.1
            8 November 2013 at 6:21 pm

            karol – thank you so much, you prove to me, Bratt lives in the “dark ages”, yet more evidence against his “(un)compelling evidence”, thank you!

  6. bad12 6
    8 November 2013 at 8:56 am

    ”Desperado wont you come to your senses part 3”,In news fresh from RadioNZ National Peter ‘the hairdo’ Dunne is said to definitely be standing in the Ohariu seat again whilst begging Slippery the Prime Minister to support His bid for another term, the PM has indicated that even He,(after 5 years of doing deals that reek), couldn’t bring Himself to stand such a stench,

    Expect that tho to change when orders come down from on high from National Party HQ as their nerves become more frayed as November 2014 approaches,

    The laughter is about to reach gut busting proportions here as Te Ururoa Flavell from the Maori Party is set to address this weekends United Future Party conference in what appears to be a picture of the rats holding hands as the ship sinks,

    There is no indication yet as to where ‘the conference’ will be held but you can bet it will be somewhere really really small…

  7. muzza 7
    8 November 2013 at 9:02 am

    Chooky, that is the type of observations which I was alluding to. MB has operated as a hatchet, there is no doubt in my mind about that.

    The venom and insults from the self styled on these boards, while unfortunate is exactly why there is unlikely to ever be a turn around in the fortunes of the majority if inhabitants of Aotearoa, they are simply incapable of accepting that the systems/services, and people controlling those systems/services, are actively killing our fellow Kiwis, allowing them to be maimed, raped, beaten and so forth, and what concerns me most of all, is that these self styles pass comment and carry on as if that same system is somehow going to turn around and change its operating strategy.

    To make change, will require acceptance that there are horrible truths which people will have to accept sooner or later. because it should be very clear by now that conventional thinking or rationale is no longer applicable to deciphering the reasons for the decline of our country, no matter how many times people wish it away, many can sense there is something much more sinister involved.

    @ Karol fyi, my comments were never intended to thread jack, thats your interpretation, not my intention. You use the term, core issues, but are not aware of what those core issues actually are, yet you pour scorn upon another perspective of where the core issues could exist, but you interpret and decide are they could not possibly be relevant.

    @ Murray Olsen, while not familiar with the references that J90 or yourself make (seems you have read some material), my neighbour for many years was the mother of Maria Jungowska, she recently passed away, and there are some very odd circumstances which were explained, so while I am not aware of what else you may have read, I have heard some things which would raise eyebrows.

    [karol: muzza, it’s perfectly legitimate to raise wider issues about general systems on other threads. For that reason I’m moving this to open mike (from the sound of dragging feet thread), because it does look like a thread jack. if you don’t want it to look like a thread jack – provide specific evidence of how it relates to the issues addressed by my post.

    You seem unwilling to discuss issues related to the core ones addressed in my post, about the conduct of police with respect to rape and sexual assault, and relevant ministerial oversight.

    I do also have some concerns about the overall workings of our government and systems – but that’s another topic.]

    • Ennui 7.1
      8 November 2013 at 3:13 pm

      Yes this topic belongs over here Muzza, I have butted out of the rape culture commentary. I like your comment what concerns me most of all, is that these self styles pass comment and carry on as if that same system is somehow going to turn around and change its operating strategy. Hundred percent. There are huge events afoot that will make todays debate pale into insignificance because they are so inconceivably large. And todays “solutions” that don’t work wont do any better then.

      Actually I am rather bored, ennuied out with the way contributors here are caught up in their own paradigms, unable to envisage other possibilities. I am presented with left libertarian dogma, marxist thought, Fem101 and rape culture etc etc as things I must accept or be deemed wrong. Goodo I will be wrong, to err is human. The last cop who batoned me was human too, he bought me a beer a few years later.

      Just wondering aloud, thinking will my great grand daughter ask her mother what things like Marxism and feminism were? And be answered, Oh just Utopian ideals that did not survive our role back into subsistence serfdom in formerly Antarctic climes….

      • Rogue Trooper 7.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 3:18 pm

        What may be done to retain your interest and balance of contributions Ennui (great final para by the wayside).

        • Ennui 7.1.1.1
          8 November 2013 at 4:14 pm

          You know the answer..good music..great lyrics….gonna hum Dire Straits Romeo on the way home as an antidote the malaise…the widespread inability to imagine romance.. roasters try and imagine that!

      • lprent 7.1.2
        8 November 2013 at 4:09 pm

        Then you picked your handle well…

        I just have very little time to even do the basics like scan and moderate comments. Writing posts.. Pah!

        Last nights post was written late at night while I was preparing and upgrading the server system again. It is now running on two (actually n) webservers, one pico server with the file system, one database server, a memcache on a different system, and the content distribution network for the graphics etc..

        If you think I’m a bit worried about scalability (and dispersion) coming into the election next year – then you’d right. Pretty freaky how you can disperse systems across nets these days and still have them running fast.

        Anyway, I wish I had your time to indulge in ennui…

      • karol 7.1.3
        8 November 2013 at 4:17 pm

        Just wondering aloud, thinking will my great grand daughter ask her mother what things like Marxism and feminism were? And be answered, Oh just Utopian ideals that did not survive our role back into subsistence serfdom in formerly Antarctic climes….

        And yet, feminist ideas have been around for centuries – lots of greats back in the (reverse) grand child line).

        Feminism said to have been coined by Charles Fourier (1772-1837) anti-poverty, pro-homosexuality, pro women’s rights.

        • Ennui 7.1.3.1
          8 November 2013 at 4:37 pm

          aha, Cassandras box and Enlightenment ideas… once out of the box you can never get them back in. Dangerous items unless used wisely. As my mother says, “All things in moderation….”

      • Muzza 7.1.4
        8 November 2013 at 4:21 pm

        Ennui, the irony as I see it, is these so called lefties are as much a lead weight to meaningful change as the right wing, neoliberals they proclaim to detest, yet are cut from different shades of the same cloth.

        Very little of funtional use can come from the self styled on these boards, few of them have anything of practical value by way of opinions or original thought which offers encouragement for the future.

        • Ennui 7.1.4.1
          8 November 2013 at 4:53 pm

          Muzza, nice summary. I am reminded of Carl Yung on this one….” We cannot change anything until we accept it. Condemnation does not liberate, it oppresses.”

      • Tat Loo (CV) 7.1.5
        8 November 2013 at 8:48 pm

        And that, is the asteroid crater comment which ends civilisation. Well done Ennui. Please make sure no one’s delicate sensibilities are hurt en passant.

    • Chooky 7.2
      8 November 2013 at 6:08 pm

      @ muzza….I dont think you deliberately hijacked the thread….and I found it very interesting….and continued with it….but I guess the core posted topic was rape and police culture…and this issue could have got sidetracked by our discussion

      …you perceptively were remembering and pointing to wider systemic issues about who conducts inquiries for the government and in particular the inquiry led by Bazley into police and sex abuse/rape issues…..indicating that, maybe given her history…her inquiry was lacking ( in depth or real solutions)and that there were serious systemic issues which have not been addressed……these are good points…and obviously this is the case!

      ….but to nail this issue, someone either has to do a lot of research or be an expert in the field of policing and law and womens/girls rights to point out where MB’s inquiry failed …it could be a very important subject of another post

      (….because clearly at the moment, police ‘solutions’ of waiting until the ‘evidence’ is acceptable for a court case ….(and/or the victims come forward prepared for court ordeals) … are not solutions at all….and more crimes are being committed against vulnerable young girls…and the abusers are getting away with their vile crimes….eg why didnt the police pro-actively follow the evidence…by wiring up undercover agents the way they do with drug offenses?…and why werent parents and schools and young girls warned about this rapist gang?)

      • muzza 7.2.1
        9 November 2013 at 9:39 pm

        Chooky, you have interpreted my comments, as they were intended, cheers. Good to know that someone else on here is cognizant of the hack jobs which MB has been at the head of, leading to more or less everything she has been involved with, broken, failing and in steady decline.

        At what point might the discussion about rape culture, cross paths with pedophile culture, and what level of influence might it be having alongside,rape culture which clearly exists, should further evidence of a cover up, and some indicators as to why there was a cover up, start to filter out.

        St John’s has a terrible history including recent cases of statutory, so what is going inside these so called pillar institutions which are supposed to provide support, safety, protection and indeed life giving services.

        @ Ennui, agreed, acceptance is necessary! Understanding or being aware what one is accepting would be beneficial if possible. In absence of clearer understanding, general acceptance that the cogs of the existing machinery never being the vehicles of salvation, would be a bloody good start.

  8. weka 8
    8 November 2013 at 9:28 am

    Eeeww, I just about commented on PG’s blog (he thinks Bomber and Lynn are being mean to teh Police).

    • lprent 8.1
      8 November 2013 at 9:31 am

      That is his usual refrain. I usually don’t release the trackbacks as part of my usual anti-link-whoring defaults. But in this case, it needs to be a wide debate on the police force. It isn’t something that gets dealt with in parliament. The police aren’t listening to the IPCA or the courts. They clearly haven’t implemented the results of the Bazley report.

      There is no other effective route for the public to voice their concerns except through social media and to a lesser extent through the more myopic mass media.

      • One Anonymous Knucklehead 8.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 9:58 am

        Yes police culture has to change, but their behaviour is a symptom of a wider malaise.

        • Tat Loo (CV) 8.1.1.1
          8 November 2013 at 10:29 am

          Like what? Reforming certain aspects of police culture appears to be something that hasn’t been successfully accomplished in 20-30 years. What else would you like time and effort to be spent on? What is the root cause of organisational cultural dysfunction in the police in your view.

          • weka 8.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2013 at 10:56 am

            Political will would be a start. Can’t leave it to the police themselves.

          • Draco T Bastard 8.1.1.1.2
            8 November 2013 at 12:47 pm

            Rape Culture

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.2.1
              8 November 2013 at 1:55 pm

              NZ can’t even deal with binge drinking culture, and this is far deeper and more endemic.

              • McFlock …
                8 November 2013 at 2:23 pm

                I disagree – it’s just that progress is slow.

                I remember that some of Billy T’s comic situations revolved around trying to get served in pubs while heavily drunk, and an entire episode of the rural sitcom (“Rabbiter’s Rest”?) revolved around how the drunk punters were going to evade the mean traffic cop who was sitting outside the pub carpark to arrest the drunk drivers – everyone in the bar.

                So in 20 or 30 years, things have changed significantly. There’s a long way to go in both issues, but I guess I’m an optimist about humanity at heart. 🙂

                • Rogue Trooper …
                  8 November 2013 at 2:24 pm

                  you old softie 😀

                • weka …
                  8 November 2013 at 2:49 pm

                  We’ve changed smoking culture significantly in the last 30 years.

                  • Tat Loo (CV) …
                    8 November 2013 at 3:31 pm

                    Absolutely. That was around a very specific and identifiable behaviour. Poorer, brown, females are still at very

                    It was accomplished by implementing widespread educational programmes, advertising campaigns and strictly regulating commercial activities like advertising and packaging.

                    Maybe something similar and comprehensive needs to be done.

                    • weka …
                      10 November 2013 at 3:06 pm

                      “Maybe something similar and comprehensive needs to be done.”

                      Yes, which begs the question of why it isn’t. When you have a society largely in denial about rape culture, then it makes sense that it can’t form good social and health policy around rape cessation. That’s why this past week is so astonishing. It’s the first time I remember that NZ has stood up and acknowledged rape culture and said ‘enough!’. Reading the term ‘rape culture’ in the NZ MSM is revolutionary. It opens the way, slightly, for policy makers to start talking about this now too.

                • Tat Loo (CV) …
                  8 November 2013 at 3:20 pm

                  So in 20 or 30 years, things have changed significantly. There’s a long way to go in both issues, but I guess I’m an optimist about humanity at heart. 🙂

                  Yes the binge drinking/preloading happens at home now.

                  • McFlock …
                    8 November 2013 at 3:28 pm

                    It always did. Maybe supermarket prices have displaced the prblem away from bars somewhat, but flagons aren’t as common as they used to be.

                    And drink-driving is now massively unacceptable in large sectors of society, rather than being endemic across the board.

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      8 November 2013 at 3:34 pm

                      urrgh, a friend of mine bought a flagon of Cream Sherry yesterday. I’m fascinated about the markets there are for the wide range of alcoholic beverages available. The range is huge, yet when I asked a retailer recently, he said, “It all sells”. Flicking over to this programme Street Hospital while Coro ads on, the levels of public intoxication and the impairment of behaviour is astounding. ( I feel less personal shame now 😉 )

                      ps. I do not believe programmes like Police 10-7 help public perceptions of police, or the offenders profiled at all.

                    • McFlock …
                      8 November 2013 at 3:43 pm

                      Each to their own flavour, I guess.

                      As for the public intox thing, bear in mind that you’re looking at the edited “highlights” of thousands of people on a night out.

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      8 November 2013 at 3:45 pm

                      yes.

            • weka 8.1.1.1.2.2
              8 November 2013 at 2:58 pm

              Thanks Draco, that should be required reading.

              • idlegus …
                8 November 2013 at 9:27 pm

                reply to rogue trooper, th reply tag is gone. “it all sells”, my mate that runs a liquor shop, told me what sells the most is the fill your own vodkas, sherry & gin, he has to keep refilling those all the time. cheap & cheerful.

                • Rogue Trooper …
                  8 November 2013 at 10:01 pm

                  been a few research articles released to the media over recent years concerning the cumulative effect of regular consumption on our population.

    • bad12 8.2
      8 November 2013 at 10:13 am

      Lolz, if you do soil yourself in such a manner ask PG whether the ‘Leader’ has got a squizz at any of the little leaflets doing the rounds over in Ohariu about the ‘Hairdo’s’ crimes…

    • Tiger Mountain 8.3
      8 November 2013 at 10:40 am

      Check out BLiP’s roll of dishonour (#23) on the headline post, the blue bellies seem to be own goal experts without needing the assistance of troublesome bloggers.

  9. karol 9
    8 November 2013 at 9:52 am

    Got a taste of power-down life last night out here in Auckland’s west. No power from 6.30pm to 11pm. Thank gods for books. Don’t know how I’d cope without batteries though.

    • millsy 9.2
      8 November 2013 at 9:47 pm

      Every house should have its own backup battery supply so at least a limited functionality of power is kept, ie lighting, basic food heating, refrigeration, medical equipment, etc, it could be charged by solar panels or something.

      • karol 9.2.1
        8 November 2013 at 9:55 pm

        Actually that’s a good scheme. I’ve also often wondered about each house, or group of households having a little power-generating windmill.

        • Tat Loo (CV) 9.2.1.1
          8 November 2013 at 9:59 pm

          a good system for emergency use is to have a 1000L tank of water on the roof which can be used to power a micro-hydro generator on demand.

          Or more realistically, a 2kW portable generator and a 10L can of diesel.

          Gotta love that fossil fuel convenience and energy density, nothing beats it…

  10. Rogue Trooper 10
    8 November 2013 at 10:44 am

    Countdown, and other corporates
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11153655
    Pull Advertising from Dumb and Dumber Live Radio

    • karol 10.1
      8 November 2013 at 11:04 am

      Excellent.

      Though, I wish some Business managers were a bit more assertive and would withdraw funding from RadioLive altogether and not just the JT & WJ show. RadioLive is protecting these rape apologists and inappropriate role models.

      • weka 10.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 11:19 am

        “But RadioLive would like to reiterate that we in no way condone the actions of the ‘Roast Busters’ or any violence against women,” it said.

        “We apologise unreservedly for any offence or distress caused to listeners, clients or others by Willie and JT’s interview with Amy.”

        Still waiting for them to apologise for their employees being such arseholes, and to apologise for broadcasting that crap. As long as they keep allowing WJ and JT to keep being rape apologists on air, then they are condoning violence against women. Rape enablers rather than bystanders at this point. If they really wanted to do the right thing they would give some air time to people who can talk intelligently about rape culture, without having to contend with WJJT. I’m sure they could even find someone who relates to their target audience.

        • Draco T Bastard 10.1.1.1
          8 November 2013 at 12:51 pm

          Still waiting for them to apologise for their employees being such arseholes, and to apologise for broadcasting that crap.

          The only way that they could do that effectively is to fire said arseholes.

    • risildowgtn 10.2
      8 November 2013 at 11:17 am

      Yeah there was a facebook slam on Countdown Wall and finally after hundreds of requests of *Dump em or we go elsewhere* they listened

      • RedBaronCV 10.2.1
        9 November 2013 at 1:29 pm

        So a change of heart but not from the heart. May their carparks be empty this weekend and all succesive days.

  11. Rogue Trooper 11
    8 November 2013 at 10:51 am

    The – intended Consequences of LVR’s
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11153346
    -less first-home buyers.

    • tc 11.1
      8 November 2013 at 12:16 pm

      less competition for the already wealthy as they acquire more untaxed growth potential via Property.

      • Rogue Trooper 11.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 12:23 pm

        more Blinglish

        • Tat Loo (CV) 11.1.1.1
          8 November 2013 at 12:39 pm

          Backlash against the NATs building.

          • Rogue Trooper 11.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2013 at 1:05 pm

            well, it was looking fairly toxic for them in last nights MSM;

            The contrasting statements of Tolley ( picture Tolley, picture my mother )within a minute when interviewed over the IPCA investigation
            -“…the media this week has not been well-handled…” (ricochet the messengers)
            followed by
            -“[the Police] don’t give New Zealand families enough confidence this process has been well-handled.”

            and Brownlee on requesting an inquiry into the “Do Not Survey” notifications EQC made about, and to, clients in Canterbury…”…one of those things that goes to the heart of confidence…”

            New Zealanders are losing confidence in this NAct charade of a government.

      • Draco T Bastard 11.1.2
        8 November 2013 at 12:57 pm

        +1

        Beat me to it.

  12. greywarbler 12
    8 November 2013 at 11:18 am

    Comment from Chris Trotter on on Bowalley Road 6/11 Two Out of Three Ain’t Enough about the years 1980s to now and the legacy of loss of good left political decisions.
    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/

    Observing the party closely since the departure of Helen Clark in 2008 has been a little like watching Rip Van Winkle rousing himself from twenty long years of slumber.
    The radicalism which had built up such a head of steam in the Labour Party following the 1981 Springbok Tour, and which helped to generate the record 93.7 percent voter turnout at the 1984 snap election, was brought to a shuddering halt by Rogernomics……

    Which leaves only the third component in Labour’s machine – the Caucus. At the conference just concluded a distressingly large number of Labour MPs put on a display of childish pique that bodes very ill for the party’s future.
    This surly, sulking behaviour is driven by the fact that the caucus’s understanding of itself and its role has proved to be the most difficult legacy of Rogernomics to eradicate.

    Before Rogernomics, Labour’s caucus arose almost organically from the party organisation: its values and the party’s values being both consistent and compatible. But the imposition of neoliberalism from within the framework of a left-wing political party radically recast the caucus’s role. Rogernomics required Labour MPs to overawe and repress the rank-and-file. Far too many Labour MPs still see their role as bringing the membership into line with their views.

  13. Sanctuary 13
    8 November 2013 at 11:35 am

    I had an interesting conversation about the living wage proposal with a guy who currently earns (I guesstimate from our convo) around $20-$21PH. He absolutely hates the idea of a living wage. To quote: “why should someone earn almost as much as me for cleaning a shithouse? I went and got qualified. I might as well clean toilets. If they get an extra $5 and then I should get $5 an hour more as well”.

    This is a common reaction amongst lower paid people, and it reminds me of a piece of dialogue from the 1988 movie Mississippi Burning:

    “Anderson: You know, when I was a little boy, there was an old Negro farmer lived down the road from us, name of Monroe. And he was, uh, – well, I guess he was just a little luckier than my Daddy was. He bought himself a mule. That was a big deal around that town. Now, my Daddy hated that mule, ’cause his friends were always kiddin’ him about oh, they saw Monroe out plowin’ with his new mule, and Monroe was gonna rent another field now they had a mule. And one morning that mule just showed up dead. They poisoned the water. And after that there was never any mention about that mule around my Daddy. It just never came up. So one time, we were drivin’ down the road and we passed Monroe’s place and we saw it was empty. He’d just packed up and left, I guess. Gone up North, or somethin’. I looked over at my Daddy’s face – and I knew he’d done it. And he saw that I knew. He was ashamed. I guess he was ashamed. He looked at me and he said: ‘If you ain’t better than a nigger, son, who are you better than?’ …He was an old man just so full of hate that he didn’t know that bein’ poor was what was killin’ him.”

    • Rogue Trooper 13.1
      8 November 2013 at 12:19 pm

      great movie, and a great illustration Sanctuary; the politics of envy overlaying the politics of entitlement, overlaying plain old personal insecurity. My upbringing and the majority of my employment occurred among our Redneck brethren…too ignorant by choice to know any better.

      “Wonderful people everywhere
      The way they comb their hair
      […]
      Boys ‘n’ girls with new clothes on
      You can Shake 😎 it to me all night long
      Hey hey
      It’s not for me

      It’s a Beautiful World” -Devo

      “She was a fast machine, she kept her motor clean… “

    • joe90 13.2
      8 November 2013 at 12:29 pm

      Classic, a petty and mean-spirited individual who would rather piss and moan about others than demand more for himself.

      • Colonial Viper 13.2.1
        8 November 2013 at 1:59 pm

        That may be true but unless there is a political response to that sentiment it will be a real problem.

  14. tsmithfield 14
    8 November 2013 at 12:30 pm

    “Colonial Viper 11.2.1.3.1
    31 December 2010 at 7:04 pm
    In that case I suggest a wager of NZ$500 to go to a major NZ charity of the winner’s choice tsmithfield. Specifically, I wager you that NYMEX Crude will break US$200 per barrel before the end of 2015. Offer good for 48 hours from now :D”

    Are you interested in reviving that wager made back here?

    http://thestandard.org.nz/what-will-2011-bring/#comment-284450

    BTW, the price of oil is currently US $94 per barrel and dropping.

    • Colonial Viper 14.1
      8 November 2013 at 2:02 pm

      Fascinating. As it turns out, ongoing economic decline with no recovery in the industrial economy has meant that demand growth has been low even as more expensive sources of oil have been developed.

  15. johnm 15
    8 November 2013 at 12:35 pm

    The triumph of neoliberalism continues in the land of the free to be greedy and the free to be needy and destitute, the U$$$$$$$$$ with endless bailouts for the greedy banks where the Washington consensus began and the Chicago school with Milton Friedman. The wretched land our RWNJ pollies love to copy: Especially destruction of the Commonwealth for privatised wealth gain.

    ‘Which America Do You Live In? – 21 Hard To Believe Facts About “Wealthy America” And “Poor America” ‘

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/which-america-do-you-live-in-21-hard-to-believe-facts-about-wealthy-america-and-poor-america

    #1 The lowest earning 23,303,064 Americans combined make 36 percent less than the highest earning 2,915 Americans do.

    #5 According to numbers that were just released this week, 49.7 million Americans are living in poverty. That is a brand new all-time record high.

    #8 According to Forbes, the 400 wealthiest Americans have more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans combined.

    #19 Approximately one out of every five households in the United States is now on food stamps.

    #20 The number of Americans on food stamps has grown from 17 million in the year 2000 to more than 47 million today.

    #18 Today, the United States actually has a higher percentage of workers doing low wage work than any other major industrialized nation does.
    (Isn’t that one of the NATZ’s goal for us? Unless you’re a CEO or top of the pile exec where you can only be motivated to work harder by paying yourself more and more with outrageous termination packages?)

  16. karol 16
    8 November 2013 at 1:32 pm

    So Willie Jackson and John Tamihere accused Matthew Hooton of middle class values in being critical of their treatment of the girl who said she was a victim of the RoastBusters.

    Yet it turns out one went to Green Bay High School and others to Avondale College.

    Those areas don’t strike me as being particularly working class – more middle-class areas these days, I’d have thought.

    • xtasy 16.1
      8 November 2013 at 8:59 pm

      I am extremely disappointed with JT and Willie, as they were about the only ones I ever listened to on Radio Live. I am surprised though that there has not been more scrutiny put onto the truly “Nat mate” and right wing journo or presenter Sean Plunket. He is a difficult one, I know, he can present himself rather well and “independently” like on “The Nation”, but his spot on Radio Live is appalling, when it comes to talk back. He has himself been so chauvinistic repeatedly, it is not funny. But it must have gone below the radar here, as nobody would bother listening to him for a start. I feel that he deserves more criticism than Willie and JT, and I am sorry to offend people here, as I know that both made some inappropriate and stupid comments this week.

      I believe that at least one, if not both, have daughters, and I expect them to be taken to task at home for sure.

      Personally I expect an apology from both, to come clean.

  17. karol 17
    8 November 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Tweet from Lew:

    Awesome. Kuia calls up and asks JT&W “Are you gonna ask that 87 year-old woman who was attacked what she was wearing?” JT hangs up on her.

  18. Tim 18
    8 November 2013 at 4:20 pm

    Calling Rhinocrates ….
    PLEASE don’t be listening to “The Panel”! (in particular that SF who I had to witness slipping up the MT Vic Hill the other day)

    it’s an exercise in listening to the pithy – or rather the pissy.

    The nicest man on Earth is absent, but one of the RW guest’s is trying to do his best to replace him, whilst the other is just trying (Hard)

  19. Morrissey 19
    8 November 2013 at 4:33 pm

    Simon Pound taking the gloves off today!
    ACT/SS thug on the ropes

    The Panel, Radio NZ National, Friday 8 November 2013
    Paul Brennan, Stephen Franks, Simon Pound

    Stephen Franks is a former ACT MP, which means he was a parliamentary colleague of the disgraced identity thief and doctor-assaulter David Garrett, as well as the notorious perk-taker Rodney Hide. He is also a “legal counsel” with that notorious gang of knife-killing enthusiasts, Garth the Knife McVicar’s S.S. Trust. All of which should make it surprising to hear Franks pontificating today, in relation to the Roastbusters/Police failure scandal, about “the boundaries of morality.” He has just intoned: “We have a society which doesn’t know where the bounds of behaviour are….”

    But people familiar with this fellow will not be surprised to see him contradicting himself like this; they know just what a canting hypocrite he is. As you listen to Franks talking about morality—his key word during these lectures is “wickedness”—bear in mind that he was a colleague of David Garrett and Rodney Hide, and works closely as a “legal counsel” with that notorious gang of knife enthusiasts, the S.S. Trust.

    So far Simon Pound has challenged him robustly. He has poured scorn on Franks’ lame defence of police inaction, and was even more contemptuous of Franks’s idiotic attempt to suggest that reading Fifty Shades of Grey was somehow equivalent to raping a thirteen-year-old. Pound is showing an entirely unexpected strength of character.

    I have to leave now, unfortunately, but I would appreciate it if someone could transcribe the remainder of what has so far been a complete and utter ass-whuppin’ for a real villain.

    Vinceremo, Simon Pound!

    • Tim 19.1
      8 November 2013 at 5:30 pm

      Oh Bugger Morrissey – I meant you (see post above, rather than Rhino). It was intended as cyber community service bulletin in an attempt to save you heartache and reduce the need for a beta blocker or two 😉
      Never mind though – the weight of his smugness means you can see him struggling to get up the hill (Hawker Street) sometimes.

      • Morrissey 19.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 7:56 pm

        Thanks Tim. I tuned in later to the show just in time to hear Franks indulge in another one of his trademark rants: this time it was against the “parasitic art culture”, whatever that means. I suspect Franks himself has not thought seriously about it, and if challenged would have had to back down or substantially qualify his bizarre statement. Rather than being challenged, or asked to clarify, however, he went on to praise artists who did not belong to the “parasitic art culture”. His exemplar for these paragons of individual enterprise was “Sir” Peter Jackson.

        Clearly, in the fertile mind of Stephen Franks, Downstage Theatre accepting a small government grant is parasitic, but accepting more than $100 million of government subsidy, plus the government collaborating with Warner Bros. to destroy the local actors’ union is heroic individualism.

  20. chris73 20
    8 November 2013 at 5:37 pm

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9379185/Police-find-rifles-in-storage-unit

    “A police raid of an Auckland storage unit linked to the Hells Angels has turned up six firearms, including military-style assault rifles”

    – An assault rifle IS a military rifle so why would they say military-style assault rifles? They’ve basically said military-style military rifles which is redundant…just bugs me is all

    • lprent 20.1
      8 November 2013 at 5:42 pm

      They could have been even more redundant and noted that they were semi-automatic (or automatic) military-style assault rifles

      • chris73 20.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 5:49 pm

        Well exactly and if they get this wrong (or are they just trying to make it sound more exciting) what else are they doing…

        • One Anonymous Knucklehead 20.1.1.1
          8 November 2013 at 6:11 pm

          Uncritically repeating neo-liberal gibberish as though it were somehow connected with reality?

          • chris73 20.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2013 at 6:33 pm

            Uncritically repeating left-wing press releases as though it were somehow connected with reality?

            – Fixed it for you

            • One Anonymous Knucklehead 20.1.1.1.1.1
              9 November 2013 at 12:20 pm

              Yeah, sure they did. That’s why you’ll be able to provide an example. Come on, a Labour or Green press release re-printed verbatim by a main stream news outlet. Just one.

        • McFlock 20.1.1.2
          8 November 2013 at 6:47 pm

          A redundant adjective tells you that NZ might not be as well served by the MSM as it could be?

          Wow.

          The constant updates on charlotte dawson and other celebs of the week did that for me years ago. Not to mention headlines that are contradicted in their story, or front-page photos of disorderly youths recycled from two years previously (ODT did that one).

    • Draco T Bastard 20.2
      8 November 2013 at 6:12 pm

      The term military style is just another scare tactic.

      • chris73 20.2.1
        8 November 2013 at 6:32 pm

        Its just pointless when assault rifle means military rifle…like saying someone was hit by an automobile-style car

        • Draco T Bastard 20.2.1.1
          8 November 2013 at 11:31 pm

          It’s pretty much pointless at any time as the term itself is so broad as to be meaningless. A hunters rifle with a scope on it could be well within its meaning as well as a handgun.

          No, IMO, it’s scare mongering i.e, ZOMG they have military weapons as if a 308 cal bullet is more deadly from and assault rifle than from a hunters rifle.

    • exkiwiforces 20.3
      9 November 2013 at 2:43 am

      Yeah that’s or very well and do if they have been caught with MSA Rifles. But do those Muppets know and understand the 4 principles of marksmanship to use them effectively?

      • McFlock 20.3.1
        9 November 2013 at 4:03 am

        Part of the problem – some of the shots fired into a house in the last few days went into the kids’ bedroom. A bullet is effective regardless of whom it hits.

  21. chris73 21
    8 November 2013 at 8:45 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE_lPaCbUIU

    – Serious question here: has the cheese finally slid of T. Mallards cracker?

    • felix 21.1
      8 November 2013 at 9:47 pm

      What in particular in that video raises such a question?

      • chris73 21.1.1
        8 November 2013 at 10:17 pm

        It looked to me that he was very distracted, seemed to be in disagreement with something that both National and Labour were agreed on, “how many people will die because of this bill” was way otp…his whole performance just looked wrong (for lack of a better term) like it wasn’t the Mallard I’m used to seeing

  22. Tat Loo (CV) 22
    8 November 2013 at 8:52 pm

    Craigs Investment Partners upset foreigners might not be able to suck as much money out

    ”If this sort of thing becomes standard, overseas investors will look at our sharemarket and say it’s too difficult to invest and give it a wide berth.

    ”If they cannot get certainty, they will go away. Now, they have to look at a company, how it makes money, whether it reports a profit and pays dividends. The uncertainty around the regulatory regime will cause concerns about the companies being able to carry on their business in a normal way,” Mr Timms said.

    Fuck, the idea of having to do some work and research around your multi-million dollar investments is simply unrealistic it seems.

    What foreign investors in the NZX apparently want is the ability to clip the ticket with “certainty.”

    FFS.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/280340/fallout-chorus-may-spread-wide

    • Draco T Bastard 22.1
      8 November 2013 at 11:35 pm

      What foreign investors in the NZX apparently want is the ability to clip the ticket with “certainty.”

      That’s what the capitalists have always wanted. IMO, It’s what brought about limited liability, the Fire at Will Bill, union busting and a whole lot more laws.

  23. Tracey 23
    8 November 2013 at 9:14 pm

    I post stuff I observe or experience. Its others who give it a label.

    human experience can be a mirror. Some cringe at the sight some gaze for ages but dont really see and so on.

    I live in hope that people will speak out against the status quo regardless of self interest. The young woman shot for demanding education for girls. But in reality I hope for that spark of courage to ignite people off their couches to sometimes say “enough”.

    I will march on 16 october because I want anyone who has been abused to speak up and know that many people will support them.

  24. Penny Bright 24
    8 November 2013 at 10:02 pm

    http://gpjanz.wordpress.com/2013/11/05/march-this-sat-for-boycott-of-chogm-in-sri-lanka/

    This is why I’ll be marching this Sat 9 November 2013, assembling at 12 noon Britomart – calling for NZ Prime Minister to boycott CHOGM in Sri Lanka:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/karunyan-arulanantham/credible-sri-lankan-war-c_b_4174819.html

    Penny Bright

    • xtasy 24.1
      8 November 2013 at 10:10 pm

      Agree, it is disgraceful and criminal what goes on in Sri Lanka, but the NZ media , again, report NADA, as if nothing ever happened. And PM Key behaves just the same, he should bury his head in total SHAME!

  25. Rogue Trooper 25
    8 November 2013 at 10:44 pm

    “Sixteen I fell in love with a girl as sweet as could be
    Only took a couple of days ’til she was rid of me.
    She swore that she would be all mine and love me to the end,
    But when I whispered in her ear I lost another friend…”

  26. Draco T Bastard 26
    8 November 2013 at 11:40 pm

    And the cookie crumbles further:

    Despite the growing evidence that corporate sovereignty clauses in international treaties pose considerable risks to nations that sign them, such “investor-state dispute settlement” (ISDS) mechanisms are present in both TPP and TAFTA/TTIP — at least as far as we know: it’s hard to be sure given the obsessive secrecy surrounding them.
    South Africa has experienced first hand the reality of those bland-sounding systems and the behind-closed-doors tribunals that implement them. Here’s what happened when it set about transforming the country after apartheid, as this column on the South African Independent Online site explains:

    We’re finding out just how bad it can be when corporations are allowed to sue countries when the countries pass laws to make their citizens better off.

  27. xtasy 27
    8 November 2013 at 11:46 pm

    Violeta Charra – de Chile, nativa, musice del pueblo:

    Interesting stuff, if any here comprehend it perpaps. This is music from another continent and sphere, and I hope some understand and appreciate it.

  28. Ron 28
    8 November 2013 at 11:48 pm

    I wonder if what we need is to separate the police from prosecution and hand all prosecution over to a separate organisation. The police would be responsible for detection and apprehension the Prosecutors office would be responsible for ensuring police gather evidence needed for a successful case.
    It seems that there is too much vested interest involved when police both detect and decide when to prosecute.
    Any thoughts?

    • Draco T Bastard 28.1
      9 November 2013 at 12:35 am

      Sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe have it so that instead of complainants going to the police they go to the prosecutors office who then directs the police to gather evidence.

      Such an office would have to staffed with lawyers and not from police ranks.

  29. xtasy 29
    9 November 2013 at 12:28 am

    This is what we need in NZ, a NZ version of Camilla Vallejo, a true Leader and passionate speaker, there are other good examples. Kiwis are peaceful, a bit too docile, and this is what the elite capitalist regime here exploits, same as their media lackeys, you are all held at ransom by those forces.

    Wake up, think, ask, challenge and more, it is YOUR power, that is you, el pueblo. por favor, good luck.

  30. xtasy 30
    9 November 2013 at 12:34 am

    Listen, where is “the left” in NZ, here are questions raised even in Mexico:

  32. the pigman 32
    9 November 2013 at 6:11 am

    This belongs on tomorrow’s open mic or weekend social or something, but let me just be the first to say, holy fuck: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9380684/John-Key-living-the-dream

    *wipes bile from lips and toilet rim* What the fuck is going on with New Zealand’s news media?

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