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Open mike 11/04/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, April 11th, 2019 - 133 comments
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Step up to the mike …

133 comments on “Open mike 11/04/2019 ”

  1. Jenny - How to get there? 1

    The roots of Islamophobia and fascism

    “You’re all terrorists”

    The words yelled outside a Christchurch mosque, with a “Trump for New Zealand” T shirt.

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2019/04/police-looking-for-man-who-yelled-abuse-outside-christchurch-mosque.html

    Also the words yelled at Syrian refugees protesting against the fall of Aleppo to the regime, by thugs in MAGA caps.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11769042

    The same sentiment expressed by Assad apologists Reason and Brigid on this site. 

    Open mike 06/04/2019

    • vto 1.1

      Yes, I can’t help but feel that these extremists have been emboldened by the mosque attacks…

      These sorts of extreme attacks remain on the rise globally, Christchurch being the latest example. Until this begins to recede then we live a danger zone.

      It got worse with Christchurch, and continues to get worse right now. Adern’s lovely words at the time now have no impact imo. The gloves are off as far as these extremists are concerned.

      p.s. wtf were the Police doing standing around letting this arsehole mouth off like that? Poor form

      • marty mars 1.1.1

        I put this up yesterday – it offers some explanations

        It is also how this story captures, in such a wonderful and grotesque synecdoche, the full gamut of conditions that produce white supremacy: the bureaucratically minded public servant for whom quietude and complacency pass as public welfare; the white man whose entire life experience amounts to being reassured, in a million different quotidian ways, of his entitlement to other people’s bodies and lands; and, I imagine, innumerable bystanders, leading their daily existence according to that quintessentially kiwi principle – conflict aversion. Fantasise as we might about the changes to come in the wake of tragedy, the fact is that barely three days after the massacre, a white man sporting a swastika outside a mosque was met with nothing more than a polite ‘move on’.”

        https://www.pantograph-punch.com/post/post-massacre-reality

        • maggieinnz 1.1.1.1

          Exactly Marty. I can’t believe all this “potentially inflame the situation at that significant location” bullshit. It’s just another way of closing their eyes to it. Would they be silently standing by if the roles were reversed?

          The article said police were stationed at the mosque since the shooting so how come the guy got to kick shit around and yell abuse for 15 minutes until he was moved along?

          Just wait and watch, every one-eyed moron in a fucking trump shirt is gonna start parading their ignorance and flapping their gums in front of mosques so they can prove how fucking relevant they are.

        • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.1.2

          “Move along, nothing to see here”, and ‘time to move on’ sentiments are BAU efforts ignoring the reality that there are many white supremacy adherents in NZ.

          Seems at least two individuals (the ‘protester’/’free speecher’, and his cognate police ‘handler’) heeded the calls to ‘move on’, albeit in the wrong direction.

          Official and community/societal responses to the mass murder of Muslims at prayer are putting pressure on white supremacists. Ideally these bigots should continue to be exposed/challenged at every turn; stay vigilant and don’t let them use this tragedy as propaganda for their ’causes’.

          https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/111956645/white-supremacists-going-unchallenged-at-auckland-university-students-say

    • reason 1.2

      The War Drums Beat goes on…

      Since NZs Islamophobic racist terrorist massacre in Christchurch …. I’ve confronted posters who have made comments like

      ‘ The shooter was a leftie eco terrorist ‘

      ‘Why should we be under Sharia law ?’

      ‘ Most Muslims are fundamentalists and incompatible to our western society’

      ‘The rise of Islamaphobic attacks against Muslims is due to their (small subset )of radical preachers.’

      The same bullshit diseased beliefs … and a whole lot of other bad crap motivated our mass murderer in Christchurch ….. a man I would describe as a subhuman supremacist.

      Yes our shooter was a human …. who believed he was superior and threatened by other humans …. ironically making him less than human … or subhuman.

      Lately One poster here …. Jenny …. has jumped the shark …. and walked off the reservation of what we know about the Christchurch tragedy ….. and into Alex Jones territory…..

      To quote ‘Jenny-how to be Alex?” …

      ” The attack in Christchurch was conducted on the anniversary of the beginning of the popular revolt against Assad, by a gunman who self describes as a fascist”…..
      … “The normalisation and acceptance of fascism in Syria has emboldened and empowered fascists everywhere.”

      So She claims that our Christchurch subhuman supremacist was an Assad fan boy …. and timed his shooting to protest . high-light the date of the Saudi and and western backed uprising in Syria ….

      https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/4273/8695/original.jpg

      Syria ….the peaceful Libya Mrk II ….. which killed 75000 Syrian Army troops in quick time … wounding and maiming a couple of hundred thousand more

      Not only is Assad to blame for Christchurch …. but according to Jenny …… Nazis …. Everywhere

      Part of Alex Jones / jennys further proof ….. is that Jo Cox …. a British Labour Mp murdered by a British subhuman supremacist …. was also murdered because her attacker was a Syrian ? Assad fan
      Jenny …. “Jo Cox was assassinated by a fascist gunman because she supported the Syrian people against the regime.”

      But all reporting on the trial shows another racist subhuman … ie

      The judge at sentencing :” “It is evident from your internet searches that your inspiration is not love of country or your fellow citizens, it is an admiration for Nazis and similar anti-democratic white supremacist creeds” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/23/thomas-mair-found-guilty-of-jo-cox-murder

      “While attacking her he was saying: “This is for Britain”, “keep Britain independent”, and “Britain first”, the court heard.”

      “The following day he looked up Nazi Party material, political prisoners, serial killers, the human liver and vertebral column and the crime of matricide, or killing one’s mother”

      Jenny should explain her use of our christchurch Muslim victims for what seems to be Alex Jones like offensiveness and fantasy.

      https://theintercept.com/2016/06/17/far-right-britain-first-party-tries-avoid-blame-lawmakers-assassination/

      https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/jo-cox-mp-compassionate-road-to-war/

      https://www.mintpressnews.com/inside-the-humanitarian-regime-change-network-exploiting-jo-coxs-death/248209/

      • reason 1.2.1

        This is what fuels hate ….. and has the middle east burning

      • WeTheBleeple 1.2.2

        Jenny is an asshole.

        • Stuart Munro. 1.2.2.1

          Jenny merely doesn’t buy Assad’s false narrative.

        • reason 1.2.2.2

          What I notice WTB is the two posters …… Grumpy Stuart …. both ignoring Jennys offensive ‘ false narrative ‘ ….. two red herrings.

          Jenny .. : ” Jo Cox was assassinated by a fascist gunman because she supported the Syrian people against the regime.”

          “The attack in Christchurch was conducted on the anniversary of the beginning of the popular revolt against Assad, by a gunman who self describes as a fascist.”

          “The normalisation and acceptance of fascism in Syria has emboldened and empowered fascists everywhere.”

          Like Alwyn ….. when he claims Andrew Little is to blame for Pike River …. it’s abusing the dead …… even worse, it shows a complete disregard for the next lot of miners going into a dangerous mine …. as lies prevent lessons being learned.

          Jenny is the same with her ‘keep fighting’ rhetoric ,,,, ignoring the results so far ,,,, extending the death and destruction.

          Jenny should apologize or explain her use of our murdered Muslims for her Alex Jones like offensive fantasy ….

          Lastly here’s a informative video with which people can inform themselves and then judge Alwyns ‘ it’s Andrew Littles fault ‘ argument.

          I condemn Jenny and Alwyns abuse of dead people …. and lack of concern for future victims …. in wars , and at work.

          Jenny-how to be Alex? ….

          • Stuart Munro. 1.2.2.2.1

            You know what Reason, I’d rather hear more of what Jenny has to say – at least she talks to actual Syrians, who, it might be supposed, are in a better position to understand the ins and outs of their country than what tend to be the shaped narratives of interfering superpowers.

            • reason 1.2.2.2.1.1

              Jenny is abusing the dead Muslim victims of christchurch …. pushing a Alex jones offensive conspiracy theory …

              You may want to hear more of her Stuart …. but it’s hard to know where her lies end and the truth begins with her posts.

              I also happen to know of a Syrian refugee family …. Or more specifically the wife / mother …. who I helped out a little bit after WINZ cut her off when she experienced a difficult birth and operation …. the hubby violent towards her and her older child ….. he does not like Assasd

              She is very upset as our Siege / Sanctions …. just like the ones used on Iraq and the current Venezuelan ones …. have made it very hard for her parents to access or afford their diabetic medication….. and food.

              Anyway it’s interesting that not just you stuart ,,,,, but many here at the standard …. are just going to let Jennys either cynical …. or deranged …. misuse of our Christchurch Muslim mass murder …. let her do that unchecked and unchallenged.

              Otherwise Jenny will use it again … and again …. and again.

              Is this really acceptable here ??? …..

              …. ” ” Jo Cox was assassinated by a fascist gunman because she supported the Syrian people against the regime.”

              “The attack in Christchurch was conducted on the anniversary of the beginning of the popular revolt against Assad, by a gunman who self describes as a fascist.” …..

              ….I’m not putting up with it ….. It’s a bit sad I’m one of the few …. but then who wants to be smeared an “Assasd Apologist” / fascist etc….as jenny … and others do.

              Her abuse of our dead Muslims …. is on line necrophilia.

              Don’t dishonor and fuck with our dead like that .

              • Stuart Munro.

                I didn’t notice her playing that card, but you certainly have been. Better to keep your politics out of Chch really; it is for the bereaved to determine what if any associations they would prefer.

                You and Brigid have been noticeably receptive to Lavrov’s propaganda, if you expect tolerance of that anomalous choice for a progressive, you’d do better to tolerate Jenny’s dissenting voice.

                • The Al1en

                  Yes, sickening to see the chch victims being used as a stick to beat another commenter here multiple times today.
                  That’s a total disrespect to the memory of those innocents.

        • Anne 1.2.2.3

          Jenny is nothing of the sort WTB.

          Being passionate about their cause does not make a person an asshole.

          • WeTheBleeple 1.2.2.3.1

            Ever since she adopted and refused to acknowledge she did it, the name of a solutions based thread several here organised, to which she adds her agressive incoherent rambles (4 parts incoherent, one part link that barely aligns with rantings) she is an asshole in my book. She will remain an asshole in my opinion for so long as she aligns that title with her name. A disrespectful asshole.

            Passionate? – incoherent garbage mostly.

      • Jenny - How to get there? 1.2.3

        Equating me with Alex Jones?

        Surely you must be aware, Reason; that Alex Jones (like all of the Fascist Far Right) is a rabid Assad supporter, probably even more so than you.

        And linking to Mint Press?

        Really?

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News

        The other link you gave, was to another Assad apologist who on news of her assassination, attacked Jo Cox for her defence of the Syrian people. In particular in the face of Assad’s genocide, her demanding of the establishment of safe havens and the delivery of humanitarian aid.

        From your link:

        The most notable aspect of Jo Cox’s tragically short parliamentary career was her outspoken stance for escalating war in support of the so-called ‘moderate rebels’ in Syria. From the Blairite wing of the Labour party, she worked with neoconservatives and other Conservative hawks to use claims of genocide to support taking humanitarian intervention on the side of the moderate rebels by establishing safe havens, the delivery of humanitarian aid to rebel areas and support for the White Helmets.

        At the time of her death, Jo Cox was working on a report with the Conservative MP Tom Tugendhat (former principal adviser to the Chief of Defence Staff). This has been posthumously published by the Conservative think tank Policy Exchange as The Cost of Doing Nothing: The price of inaction in the face of mass atrocities (January 2017)……

        But what really drove the international Fascist Far Right into a white hot frenzy and marked her for death as a recognised hate figure, was Jo Cox nomination of the White Helmets for the Nobel Peace Prize.

        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/15/late-jo-coxs-white-helmets-nobel-plea-heard/

        https://louisproyect.org/2016/06/20/jo-cox-the-white-helmets-and-the-baathist-amen-corner/

        The damage the bloggers do is immense. They attack anyone with an account of events that contradicts their own, but their chief target is the White Helmets. The bloggers’ work is repeated on the state-owned Russian news outlets RT and Sputnik; some of it has even been cited by Russian ambassadors at the United Nations. The bloggers resist being linked to the Kremlin, and there is no evidence of financial transactions other than the standard fees paid by RT for television appearances. But the Russian version of its own military strikes is amplified by bloggers like Beeley and Bartlett, who promote RT reports that push the Kremlin’s false narrative about the use of chemical weapons in Syria.

        Beeley, a former consultant to a waste management company in the Middle East with no journalistic background, has only about 42,000 followers on Twitter, but she appears regularly on RT and Sputnik. Her posts are retweeted by the Ron Paul Institute, by members of the “alt-right,” and by what Muhammad Idrees Ahmad, a lecturer at the University of Stirling and an expert on the Russian disinformation campaign in Syria, calls “the Red–Brown alliance,” an unlikely coalition of far-left and far-right extremists.

        https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/10/16/why-assad-and-russia-target-the-white-helmets/

        • reason 1.2.3.1

          Jenny you are as sick as Alwyn and his ‘ Andrew Little is to blame for pike river dishonesty.

          I am aware you have as much proof as mad Alex for your offensive statements about our murdered Muslim victims in Christchurch.

          From Jennys twisted pro war mind …. …. ” ” Jo Cox was assassinated by a fascist gunman because she supported the Syrian people against the regime.”

          “The attack in Christchurch was conducted on the anniversary of the beginning of the popular revolt against Assad, by a gunman who self describes as a fascist.” …..

          Jenny …. who also hates usa war veteran and anti war candidate Tulsi Gabbard.

          • Jenny - How to get there? 1.2.3.1.1

            Compare Tulsi Gabbard’s simplistic cartoonish take on Syria with that of Jo Cox.

            Jo Cox in her own words:

            Every decade or so, the world is tested by a crisis so grave that it breaks the mould: one so horrific and inhumane that the response of politicians to it becomes emblematic of their generation — their moral leadership or cowardice, their resolution or incompetence. It is how history judges us. We have been tested by the Second World War, the genocide in Rwanda and the slaughter in Bosnia, and I believe that Syria is our generation’s test…… 

            ….To date, neither side of the House has a record to be proud of. Let me start with my party. One of the reasons it is such an honour to be standing on this side of the House is the deep, deep pride that I have in Labour’s internationalist past. It is pride in the thousands of people from our movement who volunteered to fight tyranny alongside their fellow socialists and trade unionists in the Spanish civil war; pride in the leaders of our party—and Robin Cook in particular—who demanded action to stop the slaughter of Bosnian Muslims in Srebrenica and elsewhere, in the face of outrageous
            intransigence from the then Conservative Government; and pride in the action we led in government to save countless lives in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. In recent years, however, that internationalism has first been distorted, and now risks being jettisoned altogether…..

            …..I understand, of course, where our reticence comes from. It comes from
            perhaps the darkest chapter in Labour’s history, when we led this country to
            war in Iraq. Many Members in all parts of the House have been scarred by that experience, and understandably so; but let us all be clear about the fact that Syria is not Iraq. I opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning because I believed that the risk to civilian lives was too high, and their protection was never the central objective. I knew, as we all knew, that President George Bush was motivated not by the need to protect civilians, but by supposed weapons of mass destruction and a misguided view of the United States’ strategic interest.
            I marched against that war, and have marched against many others in my time.
            Indeed, before I joined the House I was an aid worker for a decade with Oxfam. I have seen at first hand the horror of war and its brutal impact on civilian populations. I have met 10-year-old former child soldiers with memories that no child should have to live with. I have sat down with Afghan elders with battle-weary eyes. I have held the hands of Darfuri women, gang-raped because no one was there to protect them. From that experience, alongside a horror of conflict, I have the knowledge that there are times
            when the only way to protect civilians requires military force. I might wish that it were not so, but it is. That is why I firmly believe that the Labour Government were right to champion the adoption, in 2005, of a landmark global commitment to the best and most fundamental of our human ideals: the responsibility to protect civilians. I still firmly believe that a legitimate case can be made for intervention on humanitarian grounds when a Government is manifestly unwilling or unable to protect its own civilians. Sovereignty must not constitute a licence to kill with impunity.
            The history of Iraq hangs over us all, and it should, but its legacy is awful enough without supplementing it with a new one of ignoring the slaughter in Syria. We must not let it cloud our judgment or allow us to lose sight of our moral compass.
            The war in Iraq led to the deaths of thousands upon thousands of civilians. Its legacy must be to make us all put the protection of civilians at the centre of our foreign policy, not to make us sit on the sidelines while hundreds of thousands more are killed and millions flee for their lives. – Hansard, 12 October 2015

    • reason 1.4

      Not only does Jenny Bend Christchurch to suit her pro war objectives …. She churns out the genocide smear …. against people who want the war / killings to stop.

      This ugly tactic by Jenny …. is explained quite well … it is designed to intimidate …. and stop argument against her pro war / more killing objective .

      ” how often do we see ‘mainstream’ commentators describing US-UK sanctions on Iraq from 1990-2003 as ‘genocide’, as affirmed by senior UN diplomats?

      How often do journalists describe supporters of the devastating Bush-Blair war on Iraq, the Obama-Cameron war on Libya, or May’s war on Yemen as ‘genocide deniers’?

      Can we imagine someone who supported the war on Libya being called an ‘Obama apologist’?”
      http://www.medialens.org/index.php/alerts/alert-archive/2017/860-untouchable-the-uses-and-misuses-of-genocide-denial.html

      Jenny like Wayne Mapp has some peculiar posting habits which makes me doubt their sincerity or remorse over innocent people being killed…. that they have had a hand in.

      But even Wayne would not touch this garbage …. ” Jo Cox was assassinated by a fascist gunman because she supported the Syrian people against the regime.”

      “The attack in Christchurch was conducted on the anniversary of the beginning of the popular revolt against Assad, by a gunman who self describes as a fascist.”

      “The normalisation and acceptance of fascism in Syria has emboldened and empowered fascists everywhere.”

      …. The video I’ve linked too shows what keeps the middle east in flames…. Wayne was a player …
      https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-revolutionary-distemper-in-syria-that-wasnt-us-nato-sponsored-al-qaeda-insurgency-since-the-outset-in-march-2011/5552358

      • Jenny - How to get there? 1.4.1

        reason 1.4
        11 April 2019 at 12:15 pm
        Not only does Jenny Bend Christchurch to suit her pro war objectives …. She churns out the genocide smear …. against people who want the war / killings to stop.

        This ugly tactic by Jenny …. is explained quite well … it is designed to intimidate …. and stop argument against her pro war / more killing objective ….

        You cannot be anti-war, Reason, if you are not anti-Assad’s war.

        It is you Reason who are supporting the continuation of the genocidal slaughter, by repeating the regime’s propaganda, smearing Syria’s opposition as all terrorists. Which is not far removed from the fascist view , ‘all Muslims are terrorists’.

        The biggest terrorist of all is the Assad regime.

        Do you really claim that the Assad regime is not guilty of genocide? That I churn out ‘the genocide smear.’

        As Louis Proyect puts it:

        The problem with Beeley, Bartlett, Sterling and company is that they are simply not capable of sweeping the evidence under the rug of cities blown to smithereens. The images of Aleppo, Homs, and other pro-revolution strongholds being reduced to the rubble that require volunteers to dig through in search of survivors is the proverbial 800 pound gorilla…..

        https://louisproyect.org/2016/06/20/jo-cox-the-white-helmets-and-the-baathist-amen-corner/

        Many times now I have put this question, and never, not even once has one of you, Author or Commenter, ever had the courage or decency to address it.

        Who did this, and is it not evidence of genocide?

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/feb/04/drone-footage-homs-syria-utter-devastation-video

      • Jenny - How to get there? 1.4.2

        Reason lays out a number of contesting conjectures side by side:

        Which ones are fact? Which ones are not?

        Jenny like Wayne Mapp has some peculiar posting habits which makes me doubt their sincerity or remorse over innocent people being killed…. that they have had a hand in.

        But even Wayne would not touch this garbage …. ” Jo Cox was assassinated by a fascist gunman because she supported the Syrian people against the regime.”

        “The attack in Christchurch was conducted on the anniversary of the beginning of the popular revolt against Assad, by a gunman who self describes as a fascist.”

        “The normalisation and acceptance of fascism in Syria has emboldened and empowered fascists everywhere.” ……

        Reason

        Jenny like Wayne Mapp has some peculiar posting habits which makes me doubt their sincerity or remorse over innocent people being killed…. that they have had a hand in.

        In no way can it be imagined that I have had a hand in innocent people being killed, so that obviously is a smear, not a fact.

        ” Jo Cox was assassinated by a fascist gunman because she supported the Syrian people against the regime.”

        Jo Cox supported the Syrian people’s revolt against Assad, that is a verifiable fact.

        That fascists world wide support Assad’s genocidal war against his own people, is a verifiable fact.

        That the attack in Christchurch was carried out on the internationally recognised anniversary of the start of the Syrian revolt against Assad, is a verifiable fact.

        That the killer of Jo Cox and Heather Heyer and the killer in Christchurch and Norway all self identified as “fascists” is a verifiable fact.

        “The normalisation and acceptance of fascism in Syria has emboldened and empowered fascists everywhere.”

        Possibly this last by me, could be termed a judgment call, but it is more than backed upby a mass of evidence that indicates this.

        http://www.amateinitiative.com/new_wave_of_neo_nazis_take_inspiration_from_russia_and_assad_not_nazi_germany

        New Wave of Neo-Nazis Take Inspiration from Russia and Assad, not Nazi Germany

        The recent wave of neo-Nazism, most prominently evident in North America, has adopted traditional Nazi symbolism such as swastikas and Nazi salutes like “blood and soil.” Yet this movement has less to do with Nazi Germany, and much more to do with current political players such as Russia, Bashar al-Assad, and even ISIS….

        The Facebook page of James Alex Fields, the white nationalist charged with the murder of Heather Hayer after he rammed a car into demonstrators in Charlottesville, is a dystopian microcosm of the kind of propaganda that populates the minds of these neo-Nazis. Among the plethora of images of swastikas, memes of Trump, and Pepe the Frog, Assad had a seemingly out of place presence on the white supremacist’s social media page. In one photo, Assad is depicted in full military uniform with the caption “UNDEFEATED.”

        Yet Fields is not alone in his admiration for Assad in the growing neo-Nazi movement. In a video posted on Buzzfeed reporter Brandon Wall’s Twitter feed, three other men who took part in the Charlottesville hate rally are shown proudly affirming their support for Assad. One of them wears a t-shirt with the slogan “Bashar’s Barrel Delivery Co”, and says “support the Syrian Arab army and [expletive] fight against the globalists”, while the man filming replies with “Assad did nothing wrong” and “barrel bombs, hell yeah!”

        Assad’s rise to popularity among America’s neo-Nazis perhaps began when David Duke tweeted in support of the Syrian president, describing him as an “amazing leader” and “a modern day hero standing up to demonic forces seeking to destroy his people and nation.” The series of tweets was accompanied by an image of Assad, in dark glasses and military apparel, similar to the one shared by Fields….

    • Brigid 1.5

      Jenny
      The Syrian flag shows two red stars
      The Al Nusra/ISIS flag flown by your headchopping Syrian terrorist friends shows 3 red stars.
      You stupid ignorant fool.
      You should be ashamed to be supporting such a group.

      Incidentally, you moron, Syrians from all over the ME are returning to Syria, near on a million to Aleppo.

      And this:
      ” besieged Aleppo, where there’s a hundred thousand people trapped where all the hospitals have been bombarded, all the schools have been bombarded, all the bakeries have been bombarded, there’s no food left, no medicines left, no power”
      is laughable. Really. It’s so god damned ridiculously false it’s not even offensive.

      It’s time you went to Syria Jenny because in spite of the vile propaganda you spew, the Syrians will welcome you. They’ll show you their beautiful country with pride, now that it’s mostly free of your foul child murdering, headchopping thugs.

      By the way, they’ll tell you they’re quite fond of their President.

      • joe90 1.5.1

        Syrians from all over the ME are returning to Syria

        And how many are doing so before Assadist thugs seize their property?

        https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/assad-amends-law-10-giving-syrians-year-claim-their-property

        • reason 1.5.1.1

          Joe90 ….. a Libya apologist …. and war chicken hawk on Syria .

          I hope Wayne Mapp wanders into this thread …. he’s the pro war tub thumper I want to talk to the most ….

          His little mob ( on this topic ) ,,,, Jenny , joe , stuart grumpy are pretty inconsequential ….. it’s the former minister of defense …. who needs to be publicly shamed ,….. and have his reputation where it deserves to be….. when you help kill civilians …. Kill woman and children.

          Shamed and reviled …… so present and future Prime ministers and ministers of defense know their is a cost to them for siding with barbarity.

          We’ve heard the tragic tales of our murdered christchurch Muslims bravely trying to protect their children / their wife / their husband ……

          ……The same brave sacrifices obviously took place multiple times …… in our SAS revenge raid on the Afghanistan village,,,,, under Wayne Mapp and John Key…… b
          But we never heard of these brave people …… who we killed and who were then dissapeared from existence.

          Even though I feel they were more human than Wayne Mapp / Key are ….

          • joe90 1.5.1.1.1

            Best you cite my apologies

            Oh, that’s right, you can’t so you tell fucking lies.

            • reason 1.5.1.1.1.1

              Your ego is so big you ignore all this that I wrote Joe …..

              “We’ve heard the tragic tales of our murdered christchurch Muslims bravely trying to protect their children / their wife / their husband ……

              ……The same brave sacrifices obviously took place multiple times …… in our SAS revenge raid on the Afghanistan village,,,,, under Wayne Mapp and John Key…… b
              But we never heard of these brave people …… who we killed and who were then dissapeared from existence.

              Even though I feel they were more human than Wayne Mapp / Key are ….”

              How very Wayne Mapp of you …. but ruder.

              Here’s something else for you to ignore …. kids harmed by war …. usa driven wars

              https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZHZJ5mSveuFh/

      • Jenny - How to get there? 1.5.2

        Syrians from all over the ME are returning to Syria

        Brigid

        And how many are ‘disappeared’ into the fascist extermination camps like Saydnaya to be tortured and murdered?

        https://syriadirect.org/news/%E2%80%98to-venture-into-the-unknown%E2%80%99-after-seven-years-in-the-diaspora-a-defector-returns-to-syria-and-then-disappears/

        March 18, 2019
        المقال باللغة العربية
        For months, Abu Mamdouh felt like he was being torn in half.

        Every other day, messages from relatives in his native Syria would ask him to come home. After several years of living in a neighboring country, the former military man, who defected shortly after the uprising began, grew tired of exile.

        He wanted to go home.

        “I miss everyone there,” he told Syria Direct’s Alaa Nassar in recent months. “I miss my brothers, my family, I miss my neighborhood.”

        His friends, and particularly the tight-knit group of defectors he’d befriended during his time in Syria, warned him that returning was a bad idea. They pleaded for him to stay put.

        But Abu Mamdouh returned. Immediately upon returning, relatives say, he was separated from his family and taken away. No one—in or outside of Syria—has heard from him since……

        https://syriadirect.org/news/new-legal-initiative-launches-for-%E2%80%98invisible%E2%80%99-families-of-syria%E2%80%99s-countless-detained-and-disappeared/

        https://syriadirect.org/news/displaced-east-ghoutans-mark-one-year-in-exile-as-tales-of-arrests-and-forced-conscriptions-reverberate-from-back-home/

  2. Cinny 2

    Grey was it you talking about the living wood fair?

    I let the reporter at our local paper know about the fair and she did a story to promote it, was in this weeks issue which came out yesterday, here is the link 🙂

    It’s on page 3 🙂

    • greywarshark 2.1

      Yay Cinny. Good news. Double yay! On 14-15 April. I won’t be going – I feel wrung out with things that are happening and just managing with my own ‘environmental’ green disaster. So lots to do before my personal target of end of June. Less time here as little moving-forward thinking, and time spent on my needs would be 100% more effective.

  3. adam 3

    Isn’t it odd we can’t call groups like ISIS and al qaeda far right, or indeed a fascist take on Islam.

    Insted we stuck once again with the white nationalist and useful idiots telling us it’s somthing different. That it’s not a radical conservative backlash to modernity.

    If we want the twenty first century to be shaped by the far right, then carry on calling this radical, conservative, and violent Islam fringe anything but what it is – far right lunacy.

    • vto 3.1

      agreed

    • Muttonbird 3.2

      I was thinking exactly this on my way home. The common denominator in the extremism of the east and the west which has bedevilled the world recently is conservatism.

      Conservatism leads to extremism and extremism is born of conservatism. It is conservatism which is intolerant of others and it breeds violent radicals like no other.

      It must be said that conservatism is the root of all evil in today’s world.

  4. cleangreen 4

    And please put this one in with them; – Kate Hawkesby is a rich wannabee, and an insufferable troll, that is the mouth-piece of the rich and idle,- a good fit for John Key no doubt, she should be in Hawaii to shouldn’t she?.

  5. Herodotus 5

    On a lighter note
    How to write a tune – and a classic one at that
    Sheer genius is natural

  6. cleangreen 6

    Brilliant Randy is as good as Burton Cummings is of ‘Guess who’, those guys were my idols in the Canadian music scene as I settled in Toronto in 1968.

  7. Paaparakauta 7

    Brexit is not a game like sudoku which focuses on immediate short-term solutions which May is addicted to and could be her biggest weakness.

    There is a large literature on the game theory of Brexit. One person who has been there before is Yanis Varoufakis in Grexit negotiations described in “Adults in the Room”, (2017)

    Are there any constructive strategic thinkers in the UK parliament ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudoku-
    https://www.wikihow.com/Solve-a-Sudoku
    https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/game-theory-a-critical-text
    https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/books/adults-in-the-room-
    theconversation.com/…vive-game-theory-has-an-answer-107532
    https://www.independent.co.uk/…ll-be-a-greek-tragedy-a7784936.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/…ku-relaxation-brexit-political-crisis-
    http://yippy.com/search/?v%3Aproject=clusty-new&query=brexit+%27game+theory%27&xtoken=19672819835cae4d344907

    • AB 8.1

      Ha ha – ‘wellbeing’ – how piss arse weak eh?
      Let’s just keep the existing shit-show going without ever asking what its underlying purpose might be. It’s all good after all. Never waste time asking silly questions like “what’s an economy for?” Go to go now – got some plebs to exploit.

    • WeTheBleeple 8.2

      A perfect example of the right’s straw clutching nothing response. Attacking a word, gee, how awesome they are, wellbeing hawhaw hippie shit.

      Show us more, that was simply pathetic.

    • McFlock 8.3

      heh

      one manager I had used a roller coaster diagram, where everyone was supposed to place their token where they felt was appropriate.

      Can’t remember the wording, but when everyone had shifted their tokens to the “argh shit I’m going to die here while working behind schedule” bit, she informed the clients that the deadline needed to be pushed back a bit lol

    • maggieinnz 8.4

      Yeah “feelings” right! The Ford Institute of Learning has empathy as a corner stone of learning and leadership because without it nobody would care enough to change anything.
      And FYI, every single decision people make is an emotional one and businesses that promote good culture and employee well-being are more productive and profitable. You should be glad that the treasury is taking their role so seriously.

      https://hbr.org/2015/12/proof-that-positive-work-cultures-are-more-productive
      https://www.glassdoor.com/research/satisfied-employees-drive-business-results/

  8. Amazing that the Hosk is still channeling the ‘All Kiwis are lazy ‘ of little Billy Double Dipper English again…

    They are still trying this load of crap out on the public.

    Lazy Kiwis refuse to work in orchards for good money – NZ Herald
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12220861

    I think Mikey and Katie should lead the way and go work there themselves. Permanently.

    • Jilly Bee 9.1

      Agree WK, but I nearly choked on my morning toast a while ago when I came upon this – I thought it was worth a read and then thought what are the repercussions of this going to be on the marital front! Blunderbusses at dawn no doubt. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12221221

      • WeTheBleeple 9.1.1

        Creating the illusion of being balanced. Almost a carbon copy of my post on the subject yesterday.

      • ianmac 9.1.2

        Not so dumb really. The real intent of Kate/Mikey is that because of changes like the 90 day rule, and the increase to min wage, employers are laying off workers. So it is a clever way of criticising the Government.
        Credible? Nah!

    • vto 9.2

      The so-called lazy generation were born into, and raised under, the policies and governments of Bill English and the turdy Hosking in the 1990’s…

      … they are responsible for this generation

    • Would love to see how many bins of apples Iron Mike Hoskins would pick in a day, and doing the 60-70 hours per week which is required at this time of year, man is he full of B/S, it is hard yakka climbing up and down ladders with a 20kg bag of apples until you get fit on the job ?

  9. And hes still at it,- this time attacking MMP.

    Yet we all know hes doing this because it now puts National on the back foot because they can no longer manipulate FPP.

    Still, you’ve got to admire the muppet for trying, I guess.

    Mike Hosking: New Zealand needs to learn from Israel’s MMP disaster …
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12221216

  10. ScottGN 11

    Scott Morrison is on his way to see the GG at Yarralumla. Looks like Australians will head to polls on May 18th.

    • SPC 11.1

      A Wallaby, Israel Folau, has spent some time considering criticism of his oposition that gay people were going to hell, and concluded that they will not be the only ones – also drunks, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolators are all going to hell unless they repent.

      The Rugby Australia Integrity Unit has since been been actitivated by this and is actively observing media for the responses of Rugby Australia’s corporate sponsors and sighing with gratitude he did not include those of greed and mammon in the hell bound list.

      The boss of Rugby Australia said that she was delighted he had not included Jews, Moslems Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, agnostics or deists in the hell bound list …but if he did not stop attacking his team-mates through the social media account she would have to have another talk with the self-righteous asshole. She added he would make a wonderful candidate for some of the political parties now infesting the Australian federal parliament.

      • Grumpy 11.1.1

        One of your better posts……

      • Gabby 11.1.2

        Izzie Foul should bone up on biblical thoughts about tatts.

      • gsays 11.1.3

        Making it even harder for Rugby Australia is that he is one of the few talented wallabies that could make it in the All Blacks.

      • millsy 11.1.4

        Sorry Folau, but there is no hell, and no God.

        Just science.

        Though, I guess it’s hard when you have had that crap beaten into you with your mother’s jandal since you were in nappies.

  11. WeTheBleeple 12

    New Humanoids.

    “The evolution of our evolutionary group, Homo, is getting weirder and weirder,” said paleoanthropologist Rick Potts, who directs the Smithsonian’s Human Origins Programme and was not involved with this research. Like Homo naledi, these fossils show a jumble of old and new traits, Potts said. Their particular combination suggests these humans were “unknown previously to science.”

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/science/111952134/bones-found-in-an-island-cave-may-be-a-new-human-species–homo-luzonensis

    Curved digits indicate climbers – form matches function in nature.

    The idea of early earth resembling middle earth seems ever more likely as new hominids come to light. Fascinating stuff.

    • Paaparakauta 12.1

      But Tolkien’s middle earth was fantasy ..

      • greywarshark 12.1.1

        But where does fantasy arise? In our brains which are a mix of the stuff we are made of, and a sponge-like recipient of uncountable influential observations, conscious and subconscious. Don’t ideas taken forward often turn a fantasy into reality? Where does the protean brain pause and say this is how it is – this is defined as reality as at this point in time. What is analogy in this process but a use of fantasy to describe, illustrate and explain reality?

        One example that springs to mind is the fantasy of science fiction and that of satellites.
        https://www.quora.com/Who-came-up-with-the-idea-of-satellites-first

  12. greywarshark 13

    Didn’t National cancel one census. And ignore statistics that didn’t suit its
    goals, like not having an official poverty line, and how many builders had built leaky roof and other shoddy-build houses?

    Now they have cornered the Stats Dept to find fault with.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1904/S00052/govt-statistician-finally-reveals-census-details.htm

    In Opposition they become champions of good government. Hypocrites beneath contempt.

    • Gabby 13.1

      Maybe James Shaw could have been a tad less blandly reassuring and nonchalant about it. Minister of not giving a shit about no steenkin census.

      • greywarshark 13.1.1

        Maybe he thought he could get it improved while continuing on with BAU. He does have other concerns. Also I saw that Ms McPherson is working to the requirements of NZ and also to match with overseas so our figures are comparative. I can’t believe anything that Nats say.

  13. joe90 14

    During Easter 1995 my grom friend tried acid. He was 16 years old and in the days following it became apparent that the experience had induced a psychosis from which he never recovered.

    After a long and difficult struggle, he was found dead this morning.

    Rest quietly little bro, it’s over.

    • marty mars 14.1

      Sad news mate – arohanui to whānau and friends.

      • joe90 14.1.1

        Thanks marty.

        The second our small surf community has lost this past few months. But young and old, we’re tight and the tribe will gather to commiserate and celebrate.

    • Andre 14.2

      So sorry to hear that.

    • WeTheBleeple 14.3

      I am in no ways being disrespectful, but I believe the acid was probably laced with something or your friend had a pre-existing condition.

      “Psychedelic drugs like phencyclidine (PCP) and lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) affect the user in a way that mimics actual psychosis, according to the U.S. National Library of Medicine. These drugs, however, are not shown to induce psychosis with the first use. The symptoms are more prevalent after repeated use of the drug over a period of time.”

      https://www.dualdiagnosis.org/drug-addiction/psychosis/

      I’m really sorry this happened to your friend. I’ve a friend who’s entire life was derailed by one large dose of mushrooms and the choices he made on them. Another came within a hairs breadth of losing everything with acid. Others took a trip and found religion.

      Part of the argument for legalization is the removal of dodgy operators selling god knows what to the public. I’ve only had decent acid in NZ once around 1980. Stopped bothering since then only janky nasty crap meth/coke and barb combos and kids not knowing the difference.

      • joe90 14.3.1

        Nah, first and last and well sourced.

        But with a familial disposition, it was going to happen.

    • A 14.4

      Love and light x

    • McFlock 14.5

      That sucks. Take care of yourself, joe.

    • ankerawshark 14.6

      So sorry Joe90. Really sad.

    • Ad 14.7

      Keep all your good people real close tonight.
      Arohanui.

  14. WeTheBleeple 15

    Just a heads up for mushroom pickers.

    This season should be really good. Why? The drought left the ground dry so fungi that eat dead stuff (saprobes) couldn’t operate on litterfall etc at the ground surface. As things get damp all the excess will finally be utilised under Autumn conditions perfect for fungi.

    Am seeing more variety (of ground saprobes) on just my section than I’ve seen in a long time. It will be worth keeping an eye on your favorite fields.

    The local soccer field yields so well I get a years (frozen) supply in a morning.

    Fresh fried in butter with garlic. Oh my!

  15. Rosemary McDonald 16

    Puff piece from Stuff if anyone can spare the time….

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/parenting/111954531/raising-a-child-when-you-have-a-disability-a-mum-with-cerebral-palsy-speaks-out-against-discrimination

    “If there’s one thing Renata would do differently if she could rewind the clock, it would be to reach out to others with disabilities sooner than she has.

    “When I was younger I felt it was important to be as normal as possible so I didn’t talk to people with disabilities.

    “If I had, I would probably have met others who’d been told the same things as me and found ways to overcome them. Like the man who had no limbs who could drive. After meeting him I rang a driving school and found a guy who was willing to teach me.

    “I did myself a big disservice by not acknowledging my disability, but it has taken me a long, long time to accept it – and I still cringe when I see video footage of myself walking.””

  16. mauī 17

    Wonderful news! “Tasmania makes gender optional on birth certificates after Liberal crosses floor”

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-10/birth-certificate-gender-laws-pass-in-tasmania/10989170

    Sadly 20 years too late for both of my gender fluid children. They would have relished having “Unknown” gender on their certificates.

    • If we’re going to record gender on birth certificates rather than sex, it makes sense to let people write whatever the hell they want in the box. But when did governments stop recording sex on birth certificates and start recording gender instead?

      • maggieinnz 17.1.1

        Excellent comment Milt.

      • In Vino 17.1.2

        PM – to my maturing mind, gender is only the grammatical term for sex: they both mean the same thing, and all other constructs are wishful fantasies in which far too many silly people wish to indulge.
        I share your impatience.

        • McFlock 17.1.2.1

          The semantic debate, to my mind, distracts from whether the change is one of those things that has trivial repercussions at a national data level, but at an individual level can have a massive impact.

          I’m not seeing much in the way of downsides.

          • Drowsy M. Kram 17.1.2.1.1

            It’s no more than a feeling, i.e. I could be well wrong, but might not some medical diagnoses/treatments/procedures for adults (at least) be optimised for a particular sex (male/female), regardless of gender?

            If so, then a GP/specialist/surgeon (if no-one else) should ideally know the sex of a patient, as well as their gender, in order to provide the best possible advice and treatment.

            Population-wide analysis of differences in disease progression patterns in men and women

            Sex- and gender-stratified medicine is an essential aspect of precision medicine. Sex and gender affect the manifestation and pathophysiology of many diseases. Sex is defined as the biological component, while gender is a social construction as for example defined by the WHO. Sex is a separate risk factor even when all other aspects have been taken into account. Although sex is an important aspect of disease, many sex-specific analyses focus on one sex only and less on the comparative aspect. Consequently, sex- and gender-medicine is generally understudied, and an increasing body of literature stresses the need to include both sexes in animal models, clinical trials, and healthcare planning policies.

            Nature Communications (Feb. 2019)
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6368599/

            • McFlock 17.1.2.1.1.1

              Yeah, but anything like that is in medical records. that’s why when you change GP they transfer the records to the new GP.

              Nobody makes a diagnosis off a birth certificate.

              The only thought I had was that if your base population denominator was off, then the health needs of the population might be misidentified (e.g. a certain percentage of babies will need orchidoplasty or gyno surgury within a few years of birth, so you make a rough prediction of how many of those procedures to budget for in the coming fiscal year). But we’re only talking a few percent of people, and a chunk want to go one way and another chunk want to go the other, so it’s not like your population counts will be massively off.

              The thing about birth certificates and drivers licenses being updated is that anyone who doesn’t need to know – like cops or customs officers – isn’t told.

              • Drowsy M. Kram

                Good points (whoosh). ‘Sex’ to be disclosed/recorded on a ‘need to know’ basis, at the sole discretion of the individual. My anxiety levels are rising, which says too much about me!

        • Psycho Milt 17.1.2.2

          PM – to my maturing mind, gender is only the grammatical term for sex: they both mean the same thing…

          Oh, gender exists alright. There’s no sex difference that accounts for how you can look at a piece of clothing and say it’s “men’s” or “women’s” clothing (with the exception of the brassiere, I guess). That ability was acquired from your society via your upbringing, not from biology. There are all kinds of items and behaviours that are in the same category. That’s gender, not sex. I’m just confused as to why a government would want to record that on birth certificates rather than a person’s sex, which is a much more straightforward data point.

          • In Vino 17.1.2.2.1

            I would say that saying, “That clothing article looks masculine or feminine” is damn-all different from saying that it looks male or female. Subtleties?

            • Psycho Milt 17.1.2.2.1.1

              I think so. Sex is biology, but there are no biological differences between articles of clothing. Your ability to identify them as “male” or “female” clothing isn’t based on anything biological, it’s based on your knowledge of what your society regards as appropriate and inappropriate clothing for men and women. That’s the essential difference – sex is biology, gender is non-biological. Gender is easily fucked-with, eg if a man wants to dress in women’s clothing he can choose to do so and the only potential difficulties are entirely social ones. Sex on the other hand just ignores attempts to fuck with it, eg a man may wish he could bear children and breastfeed them, but his wish won’t be granted (given current technology).

  17. indiana 18

    “Obviously at a personal level I clearly don’t agree with what he said and very mindful of the fact he is for many a role model, he’s a person in a position of influence and with that comes responsibility.”

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12221470

    …errr, no.

    • McFlock 18.1

      Ah, the philosophical school of “with great power comes great fuck y’all, I’ll do what I want”

  18. greywarshark 19

    Agencies just can'[t suddenly turn around bad model and start shutting down businesses.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/111930133/product-wont-be-moved-truck-boss-warns-against-nzta-moves
    In the three years to mid-2018, the NZTA issued 66 revocation notices; in the last six months alone, they have handed out 20, including to Semenoff Logging. Last month, they revoked the licences of two Southland operators, Clutha Transport and McDowall Rural Services.

    The NZTA action came after Transport Minister Phil Twyford said the agency had failed in its duties as regulator, and the agency appointed lawyers Meredith Connell to address their compliance backlog.

    It’s not the right thing to do for Government to sharpen up and cut off business.
    The Transport Minister has to work with the agency and work out a system of prioritising. Practicality plus safety needed.

    • maggieinnz 19.1

      I don’t know GWS. Tell me why they shouldn’t just comply? Seems like they’ve gotten away with it for a while and are complaining cos “the rules”.

      • Sacha 19.1.1

        Yes, it is supposedly a competitive market. Companies who thumb their nose at regulations can go bust. Others will take over the work and hopefully the staff.

        • maggieinnz 19.1.1.1

          That’s exactly what I was thinking too. I mean, at worst there might be a week or two delay on some stuff but if I was in the business I’d be eyeing up the slackers and their clients. I’d take the staff too as they’d already know what’s what.

        • KJT 19.1.1.2

          It is the companies that followed the rules, paid wages and had safe vehicles, that have “gone bust” while the cowboys prosper.

          Same in construction, and so many other industries.

          The brave new world of Neo-Liberal deregulated laisses’ fare.

          • Sacha 19.1.1.2.1

            Yes, regulations protect good businesses from immoral cowboys. I guess the righties don’t want to admit that the latter exist.

      • greywarshark 19.1.2

        Why indeed shouldn’t they comply. But just a bit of practicality would help here. We can all jump on our high horses and say serve them right, and let’s replace them with better.

        But in the meantime there is produce to shift, businesses trading with each other, all the commerce that keeps the country going and we need more than just dried milk and tourists to keep the money going round. So bloody government that has upset the whole country’s domestic economy in favour of exporting, needs to show some nous about not straining the domestic trading we have left.

        It’s such a mistake to hive off all the work to agencies that are supposed to be left to organise themselves and anything wrong can’t be fixed or ameliorated because ‘It’s an operational matter’. I’d operate on them, I’d have their guts for garters if I had any power to do so. But it’s possible that all the little toadies willing to bow to the world capital line of neo lib and free markets have probably tied our hands, handcuffed us, so our pollies may have little agency with the agencies. Could be, Chris Trotter has written about this. But surely they can ensure that things are done smoothly as poss, in a timely fashion, even if the agency heads get a little miffed because of oversight being carried out. Set schedules for them to get the work done and make sure the slackers do it.

        • Sacha 19.1.2.1

          Let’s just keep those big trucks flowing with their substandard welding. What could possibly go wrong?

        • maggieinnz 19.1.2.2

          Yes, I get that it’s all a bit sudden and I agree that the best way to get compliance is to have consistently applied rules that are fairly and firmly enforced. But in my opinion those business owners are well deserving of a kick up the arse. Do you know what would happen if(read when) one of those unsafe trucks rolls and takes out a family vehicle? Everyone will crucify NZTA for not doing enough to stop irresponsible business owners. The owners knew the rules and didn’t give a shit. After the horrendous week or so on the roads I think this is totally appropriate. We tend to only sit up and take notice when things get seriously ugly.

    • KJT 19.2

      As one, I know, has a long history of thumbing their nose at regulation, underpaying and overworking drivers, complaining they cannot get enough immigrants to exploit, ignoring safety standards, as well as using their position, and cheaper operation, to remove competitors.

      The comeuppance, is well deserved.

      • Psycho Milt 19.2.1

        It shows how far downhill things have gone that these guys don’t feel the slightest shame in publicly presenting “If I have to follow the safety regulations, how will I stay in business?” as an argument.

        • Stuart Munro. 19.2.1.1

          They’re only following the example of the fishing industry, who’ve pretty much flogged the ‘no-one else will catch it’ argument to death.

          • KJT 19.2.1.1.1

            And federated farmers members, and property speculators, who openly admit they are deliberately shifting income to capital gains, to avoid taxes.

            No sense of shame, for their lack of a moral compass.

            • Stuart Munro. 19.2.1.1.1.1

              I single out fishing because the large scale exploitation of cheap foreign labour was modelled there first, probably contemporaneously with the horticultural worker exploitation schemes, which I don’t know as much about. But what dairy has become certainly closely resembles an exploitation model that was allowed to prosper out of the general public view.

              • KJT

                A close relation works for one of the horticulture labour hire contractors.

                One of the better ones, actually.

                They pay everyone at least the minimum wage, and their regulars, at least a few dollars over.

                However, even this one expects them to be on call seven days a week, in the picking season, with no compensation for on call days, and no pay if they can’t pick.
                There is no pay for travel time or mileage, even though they have to use their own vehicles and many of the orchards are hours away.
                My rellie wanted to take one of his on call days off. Which he was perfectly entitled to do, as they weren’t paying him unless he got called. He was threatened with dismissal!

                Growers have successfully shifted many of their costs onto their workers.

                No wonder workers have had enough.

                Doing the proper capitalist thing, of voting with their feet.

                The growers of course want WINZ, and INZ, to continue to provide forced labour, for them to exploit.

        • KJT 19.2.1.2

          Only a few months after the same person said, “if I cannot use, and pay, immigrant drivers minimum wage, I will go out of business”.

  19. Eco Maori 20

    Kia ora Newshub
    I no the wealthy have a problem with Eco Maori they don’t want to share their lollies more evenly I know that is the best for society equality.
    I will just ignore falaus comments as any publicity is good publicity. Hom many hitts did he get from this stunt.
    The drug companies only care about proffets not what is Best for the people that has to change it will once the new consence currency comes into society – + these companies need to do what is best for society first before profits
    You get to choose what you look at on social media with the private Post the big tech companies are the ones that minupulate the people.
    Social media is getting the truth out there TRUTH IS POWER. Ka kite ano

  20. Eco Maori 22

    I believe that Maori culture can heal Maori problems not the European state they treat us a second class people. Like I have said before if the carer does not care for the people they are in charge of than they will never get the Aroha that is needed to fix the problem. IT’S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE. Just logic
    Māori justice advocates have renewed the fight for a separate justice system for Māori. They say outcomes for Māori are still getting worse and they should be able to take the lead under Te Tiriti o Waitangi. RNZ Māori news correspondent Leigh-Marama McLachlan reports.
    Ka kite ano link below P.S I had to use my phone my computer can not get radionz Web site go figure.
    https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018690334/maori-advocates-urge-reform-to-justice-system

  21. Eco Maori 23

    Whanau this is how corrupt the system is with the drivers licence demerit point system it say your demerit points last 2 years and wiped (BUT NO IF YOU GO OVER A HUNDRED POINTS. The cheats make them last 4YEAR because when you go over a hundred they accumulate until your last fine reaches 2 year WTF some of my demit points are over 2 years and the WANKERs take my licence off me outside my Mokopuna school. You see Whanau if they can’t get you for there fulse CHARGES they will use anything that the STATE has to try a stuff you up by the way my last 2 fines were trumped up the sandflys playing silly buggers on the road and planted cops to give fulse fines. I seen that REDNECK at Bridge Pa who fined me for nothing.

  22. Eco Maori 24

    Here you go Whanau it’s not astonishing to ECO Maori what the Crown has dished out to tangata whenua O Atoearoa I see the OPPRESSION quite CLEARLY.
    What is astonishing, in our view, is that in all the evidence and papers available to the Tribunal, the various Government departments and Ministers never once seemed to consider what would benefit Māori or what was in their best interests. Indeed, they had actively sought to defeat the rights claimed by MĀORI Ka kite ano links below.

    https://e-tangata.co.nz/reflections/theyre-not-your-fish/

    https://youtu.be/iqeOTg2a-l8

  23. Eco Maori 25

    The consumer age has to end we need to care for Papatuanukue and hand her to OUR Mokopuna in better condition than when we receive the Guardianship of her. Man has to stop exploiting EVERYTHING for Money.
    Plastic pollution in the world’s oceans costs society billions of dollars every year in damaged and lost resources, research has found.

    Fisheries, aquaculture, recreational activities and global wellbeing are all negatively affected by plastic pollution, with an estimated 1-5% decline in the benefit humans derive from oceans. The resulting cost in such benefits, known as marine ecosystem value, is up to $2.5tn (£1.9tn) a year, according to a study published this week in Marine Pollution Bulletin.

    Plastic waste is also believed to cost up to $33,000 per ton in reduced environmental value, the study found. An estimated 8m tons of plastic pollution enter the world’s oceans every year. Ka kite ano link below

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/apr/04/marine-plastic-pollution-costs-the-world-up-to-25bn-a-year-researchers-find

  24. Eco Maori 26

    Kia ora Newshub.
    Its sad that such a nice person could be killed like Johnston.
    It was not just love that the Christchurch Muslims gave that idiot they gave him Aroha and forgave him FORGIVENESS is a value that has to be promoted For Equal rights.
    trump there he goes next minute.
    Well there you go I went to Wellington to Lay fiber optic cables about 4 years ago and got there and the work got taken up by foreign Workers lost heaps of money on that failed career charge.
    That’s climate change in America South West at the minute.
    Well it wasn’t meant to be Israel landing a space craft on MARAMA.
    Is judy trying to change her image sorry lip stick on a – – – – LOL. Ka kite ano

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