Open Mike 12/07/2018

99 comments on “Open Mike 12/07/2018 ”

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1. The Chairman 1

   12 July 2018 at 6:22 am

   Nurses -striking for a safer health system for all New Zealanders.

   Labour – the party that puts eradicating M. bovis (that has no human health risk) ahead of patient safety.
   • bwaghorn 1.1

     12 July 2018 at 6:49 am

     Your a dick head . Just thought you should know
     • solkta 1.1.1

       12 July 2018 at 7:49 am

       He’s a really crap troll.
     • The Chairman 1.1.2

       12 July 2018 at 12:26 pm

       Personally, I think those that support eradicating M. bovis ahead of patient safety are “dickheads”.
       • Incognito 1.1.2.1

         12 July 2018 at 12:34 pm

         I 100% agree! MPI must pay nurses more!
         • The Chairman 1.1.2.1.1

           12 July 2018 at 12:41 pm

           Just skim a bit off the blank cheque Grant committed to signing.
           https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/06/grant-robertson-signs-blank-cheque-to-tackle-mycoplasma-bovis.html
           • McFlock 1.1.2.1.1.1

             12 July 2018 at 12:47 pm

             and if the nurses were happy, you’d be bitching about a poor m. bovis response.
             • The Chairman …

               12 July 2018 at 1:40 pm

               The response to M. bovis has been poor. But the blame for that largely rests with the last administration.

               Nevertheless, I don’t support Grant’s blank cheque approach and I’ve yet to see him explain why he is prepared to put that before patient safety?
               • McFlock …

                 12 July 2018 at 2:08 pm

                 Oh, that would be because nobody other than the occasional tory lickspittle is trying to play the health sector against the rural communities.
                 • The Chairman …

                   12 July 2018 at 3:29 pm

                   Don’t be silly.

                   Labour’s refusal to put more money on the table to further address patient safety concerns has now got many questioning Labour’s priorities when it comes to expenditure.
                   • McFlock …

                     12 July 2018 at 4:09 pm

                     “many”.
               • Ffloyd …

                 12 July 2018 at 5:47 pm

                 Nurses have been on the bones of their arses for the LAST NINE YEARS.Where was your concern for patient safety then TC? The biggest concern for anybody during Nats time was actually becoming a patient. Their health outcome was pretty poor by anybody’s standard. This Govt is doing it’s level best in the SHORT TIME it’s been in power to address everybody’s need. Give them bloody time. A surplus is only a surplus until it’s not.
                 • The Chairman …

                   12 July 2018 at 7:27 pm

                   My concern for patient safety didn’t change just because the Government changed. Unlike yours evidently.

                   Labour’s Budget Responsibility Rules are only a little softer than National’s fiscal position, which created the under-funding which Labour are finding their Budget Responsibility Rules are making difficult to address.

                   And the thing is, a lot of these problems will worsen (thus will become more difficult to correct going forward) at the slow pace Labour are moving. So best you join the outrage and start tooting for the nurses. Labour don’t have the luxury of having time to spare.

                   As for this Government’s surplus, the Government’s books are showing the surplus is almost half a billion more than was originally forecast. Moreover, Government debt is also tracking better than expected (see link below). So there is extra fiscal scope for the Government to consider improving wage offers
                   
               • R.P Mcmurphy …

                 12 July 2018 at 8:18 pm

                 thats another nationals party meme and you should either make your own contribution or shut up.
                 • The Chairman …

                   12 July 2018 at 8:35 pm

                   It’s all my own contribution thanks very much. And as I contribute so much, you’ll have to be a little more specific.

                   Moreover, why the concern about me? The issue here is the nurses dispute. Aren’t you concerned about that?
         • cleangreen 1.1.2.1.2

           12 July 2018 at 12:48 pm

           Good one Incognito. 100%

           MPI should be sued as should be the importer of the M.Bovine virus.

           That should pay for the medical funding shortfall.

           Now what about the $1 billion dollars spent now fighting M. Bovis?????

           Sue the ‘National Party’ for $1 billion, as the M.Bovine virus was alllowed to come here from 2015 we are told.??????
           • KJT 1.1.2.1.2.1

             12 July 2018 at 7:37 pm

             Could always get farmers to pay taxes.
             Instead of simply taking from the system.
     • McFlock 1.1.3

       12 July 2018 at 12:30 pm

       lol
2. The Chairman 2

   12 July 2018 at 6:35 am

   Why we’re going on strike: a Wellington nurse’s viewpoint
   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/105413975/why-were-going-on-strike-a-wellington-nurses-viewpoint
3. Jenny 3

   12 July 2018 at 7:28 am

   All round the world as Governments, Parties, and Political Movements, turn to the Right, Mateao di Maio asks, will this rising Right Wing tide wash up on our shores?

   The US takes the far-right shift a notch further. Trump’s tolerance of those I would have no qualms calling Nazis is worrying. Last August, racist rallies in Charlottesville lasted two days without condemnation from the commander in chief.

   I’m sure there are not any more white supremacists in America today than there were, say, two decades ago. But now they’re marching without their hoods. And that’s because they’ve got permission from the president.

   Echoing 1930s Germany, recently migrant children were being stripped from their parents at the US border. And a flimsy executive order (a PR move on the president’s part, more than anything else) does little to end the crisis.

   It’s not just in the US that anti-immigration sentiment has taken hold. The global consensus on asylum seekers seems to be: “We don’t want you.”

   Academics and journalists alike are bewildered by how easily everyone has been blinded by “quasi-fascist” strongmen, in everywhere from Trump’s America to Erdogan’s Turkey. Victor Orban’s populist takeover in Hungary could never have happened, say, twenty years ago, as Eastern Europe still lay healing from their Soviet-era wounds. Over in Germany, Angela Merkel’s grand coalition is trembling under the weight of the EU’s “liberal” immigration policies.

   https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-new-zealand-jacinda-ardern-liberal-politics-democracy-a8442561.html
   • Stuart Munro 3.1

     12 July 2018 at 5:12 pm

     Pretty sure Putin had a hand in the Turkish failed coup. It pivoted them away from the US and the EU in one easy step.
4. marty mars 4

   12 July 2018 at 7:51 am

   Kia kaha to all the nurses today – I fully support your action and hope this will bring a coming together of the parties and that the DHB’s will find more money – because they need to. Be safe out there and stay warm.

   toot toot!!!
   • Cinny 4.1

     12 July 2018 at 8:29 am

     + 100%

     Toot toot 🙂
   • james 4.2

     12 July 2018 at 1:04 pm

     “and that the DHB’s will find more money”

     Do you not believe the acting PM when he said there was no more money?
     • solkta 4.2.1

       12 July 2018 at 1:07 pm

       There are people who believe what Winston says?
       • jame 4.2.1.1

         12 July 2018 at 7:08 pm

         Indeed there are – after all – he is the leader of this coalition.
5. Ad 5

   12 July 2018 at 8:13 am

   Feels like the skilful hand of James Shaw behind getting this group of leading businesses to commit to climate change target and to support the Climate Change Commission. More of major business are coming behind this Green Party initiative than are getting behind the New Zealand First Provincial Growth Partnership, and James Shaw doesn’t have $1billion dollars to roll around.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12087184

   The launch will be today, and the Skytower will be lit up green as a signal of the commitment.

   Looks more and more that the results of the Climate Change Commission and resulting legislation will have a major backing fro business, making it far more likely that it will have crucial cross-parliamentary support.

   That would make the commitments truly intergenerational.
   • Gabby 5.1

     12 July 2018 at 10:27 am

     Feels like poachers taking over the game reserve.
     • Ad 5.1.1

       12 July 2018 at 10:31 am

       They probably call them customers.

       The Climate Change Commission’s findings – while not binding – are the ones to watch for.

       We are all going to be signing up to them.
6. AsleepWhileWalking 6

   12 July 2018 at 8:15 am

   https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/peters-has-no-idea-why-census-levels-low-turn-raises-serious-questions-say-national

   Census 2018 has turned into a shambles with the lowest participation rate in over 50 years,” National’s spokesperson for State Services Nick Smith said. “The Government must figure out what went so wrong and how the serious flow on problems for the public sector can be rectified,” Dr Smith said.

   Many people still don’t have internet access or TV. I spoke to one person just after the census who had no idea one had just occurred.

   This is just what happens when the have/have not gap widens drastically.
   • dv 6.1

     12 July 2018 at 9:08 am

     Wasn’t the census set up by the natz?
     • mary_a 6.1.1

       12 July 2018 at 10:58 am

       @ dv (5.1) … it was indeed set up by Natz. However, they know nothing, so it’s all Labour’s fault 😏
       • cleangreen 6.1.1.1

         12 July 2018 at 12:57 pm

         Yes mary_a

         ‘National fucked the country and now its labours fault now,’s

         So labour need to get their new $38 million dollar ‘free to air channel up and running ‘to change the minds of the people now ahead of the 2020 election!!!!!

         Otherwise we are being lead right back into the ‘sewer that national left’ for us to live in.

         https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/96745495/labour-promises-freetoair-rnz-tv-channel
         • Grant 6.1.1.1.1

           12 July 2018 at 2:37 pm

           While you’re at CG, why don’t you see if can ferret out some of Goebel’s descendants to coach the ‘Labour Channel’s” broadcasters on propaganda techniques to “change the minds of the people”.

           Just what we need in what is a liberal democracy (but maybe a liberal democracy is not what you want, rather something more siniste) – an initiative to spend tax payers money on a political party’s propaganda machine.
           • KJT 6.1.1.1.1.1

             12 July 2018 at 7:39 pm

             Have that already. Why do you think National bails out private broadcasters?
   • corodale 6.2

     12 July 2018 at 9:15 am

     Yeah, went bush for the summer.
   • Gabby 6.3

     12 July 2018 at 10:30 am

     I can’t imagine how the interests of the gnatz would be served by hiding a big chunk of the poorest and the most recently arrived. The Statz lady sounded pretty blase about the whole thing.
     • McFlock 6.3.1

       12 July 2018 at 12:36 pm

       probably find the census was turned in well under budget, so that’s a plus for statsnz.

       That having been said, 90% is at the low end of barely acceptable, compensation from other sources or not. It’s a bit like the IDI probabilistic linking, which is simply a bodge to make up for the lack of a cross-department individual unique ID. And not a bodge that is appropriate for a lot of uses of government data.
7. saveNZ 7

   12 July 2018 at 9:46 am

   Another day another delay from truck crashes or breakdowns…

   Truck tips onto side after colliding with bridge
   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12087627

   Traffic chaos on Auckland’s motorways causing commuter headaches
   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12087562
   • mauī 7.1

     12 July 2018 at 10:43 am

     But, but, but… rail never makes a profit! So we must endure the traffic jams and the losses in productivity, and the high petrol costs, and the high petrol taxes because we need roads, lots of roads, and bigger roads, preferably massive motorways that make no financial whatsoever because I will be able to drive my imposing Porsche Cayenne or Ford Ranger aggressively on them and not indicate and basically have no care for anyone else on the road.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.2

     12 July 2018 at 11:39 am

     Wonder what would happen if those truck firms were forced to pay the full costs that they just caused.

     No, it’s obvious what would happen – trucks would be off the roads as fast as possible. Without their subsidies trucks aren’t economic except for short haul.
   • cleangreen 7.3

     12 July 2018 at 1:12 pm

     Shit saveNZ. you beat me to that good for you.

     Yes i spotted that earlier and thanks for remindinng me.

     https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/105422851/truck-and-trailer-unit-carrying-goods-catches-fire-on-sh2-near-tauranga

     I will add the truck/fire/crash to yesterdays truck crash fatality at the same regional locality near Tauranga, and ship a letter off to the government to remind them as to why we need to move freight off the roads and onto rail to save lives and money.

     http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK1311/S00175/truck-crash-pyes-pa-road-tauranga.htm

     I wonder if Wayne Mapp as nationals ex MP will now slag us off again for making political gain from another truck accident again today as he diid yesterday????
     • gsays 7.3.1

       12 July 2018 at 2:46 pm

       Heh, dissed for making political capital before he went on to make a political point.

       Stay classy former MP.
8. marty mars 8

   12 July 2018 at 11:41 am

   Hmmm good idea and nice to see both sides of the House involved in doing it.

   https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/property/105393547/once-dubbed-a-working-mans-hut-now-its-a-home-for-joy-morris
9. Puckish Rogue 9

   12 July 2018 at 12:28 pm

   Pretty damn ballsy really

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12087103

   A civil servant has been handed a nine-year ban from public posts after it emerged he had been absent from his €50,000-a-year job for more than a decade.

   Every weekday morning, Carles Recio, an archives director in Valencia’s provincial government, would turn up at his office only to clock in and head straight out again, before coming back at 4pm to clock out.
   • McFlock 9.1

     12 July 2018 at 12:45 pm

     Dunno whether it’s Kafka or Mike Judge lol

     I wonder what the grieving process is upon finding out you’ve been relocated into a bureaucratic void – bewilderment, boredom, realisation, exploration, exploitation?
     • Puckish Rogue 9.1.1

       12 July 2018 at 12:50 pm

       He’s pretty good
       • McFlock 9.1.1.1

         12 July 2018 at 12:58 pm

         yup
10. joe90 10

    12 July 2018 at 1:22 pm

    Meanwhile, clean green New Zealand’s emissions are up by around 20% on 1990 levels.

    NEWS RELEASE: Climate pollutants fall below 1990 levels for first time ➡️ https://t.co/8FaHsL8rXD #AB32 #SB32Achievement roughly equal to taking 12 million cars off the road or saving 6 billion gallons of gasoline a year #ActOnClimate pic.twitter.com/bVRCGpX4vh— CARB (@AirResources) July 11, 2018

    Senate Bill 32, signed in 2016, requires the state to go even further than AB 32 and cut emissions 40 percent below 1990 levels by 2030—the most ambitious carbon goal in North America. The state’s annual emissions inventory helps keep the state accountable for meeting its emissions reduction targets. Highlights from the inventory published today include:

    • Carbon pollution dropped 13 percent statewide since a 2004 peak; meanwhile the economy grew 26 percent.
    • Per capita emissions continue to be among the lowest in the country. They fell 23 percent from a peak of 14 metric tons per person (roughly equal to driving 34,000 miles) in 2001 to 10.8 metric tons per person in 2016 (roughly equal to driving 26,000 miles). That is approximately half as much as the national average.
    • Carbon pollution dropped 3 percent between 2015 and 2016—roughly equal to taking 2.4 million cars off the road or saving 1.5 billion gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel.
    • The “carbon intensity” of California’s economy – the amount of carbon pollution emitted per $1 million of gross state product – dropped 38 percent since the 2001 peak and is now one-half the national average.
    • California now produces twice as many goods and services for the same amount of greenhouse gas emissions as the rest of the nation.

    https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/news/climate-pollutants-fall-below-1990-levels-first-time
    • greywarshark 10.1

      12 July 2018 at 4:34 pm

      Some good news from todays government and businesses thinking about tomorrow.
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018653292/60-businesses-commit-to-climate-change-action

      business climate
      9:09 am today
      60 businesses commit to climate change action
      From Nine To Noon, 9:09 am today
      Listen duration 29′ :04″
      CEOs of sixty businesses across the country, collectively responsible for nearly 50% of our emissions, are banding together to combat climate change. Members of this Climate Leaders Coalition include Z Energy, Fonterra, Westpac, Ngai Tahu Holdings, Vector, Air New Zealand, Spark and NZ Post. By signing the CEO Climate Change Statement, each of the business leaders is committing to measuring and reporting their greenhouse gas emissions to align with the Paris Agreement. Z Energy CEO Mike Bennetts is convening the Climate Leaders Coalition. He talks to Kathryn Ryan along with Westpac CEO Karen Silk.
      ***************************
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018653293/commissioner-targets-govt-and-biodegradable-single-use-plastics 9.37am 8.22mins
      The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, Simon Upton, is calling on government to pick up its game around biodegradable plastics and its overall environmental goals.

      The commissioner wants urgent attention paid to understanding the implications for the end of life of these products, as well as sorting out the terminology and labeling schemes.
      To this end the PCE has produced an online resource of key facts aimed at improving consumer and business understanding of the plastics issue.
      Simon Upton talks to Kathryn Ryan
      *****************
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ruralnews/audio/2018653319/midday-rural-news-for-12-july-2018 7.58 mins
      Sixty businesses who produce nearly half of all New Zealand’s greenhouse gas emissions have pledged to reduce them, to seek offsets like planting trees and to strictly monitor their emissions.
      ************************
      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/businessnews/audio/2018653315/z-energy-coalition-will-approach-commitment-differently 2.10 mins
      The head of Z Energy says businesses which have signed up to a coalition to tackle climate change are committed to making a difference, but will approach it differently depending on their circumstances.

      NOTE: Cleangreen – For Gisborne this carbon thing will enable trees to be left in the ground and the forestry owners get paid for it. This is how things should work so there is hope for the erosion-threatened area.
11. Naki man 11

    12 July 2018 at 1:38 pm

    A day in the life of a bludger.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/105390029/aucklands-phoney-homeless-raking-in-100-a-day-on-the-streets
    • Molly 11.1

      12 July 2018 at 2:01 pm

      Thanks for the link. I’m surprised that you could read that and not have compassion for the lives these men are leading. Homes to go to at night – really one of the basics of what all NZers should have – is not exactly the high life.

      We contribute to the flagrant spending of organisations and corporations without missing a beat, and you consider this to be worthy of discussion?
      • greywarshark 11.1.1

        12 July 2018 at 4:35 pm

        Naki man is looking for someone smaller to kick. Less lifting of leg, more energy efficient.
        • Gabby 11.1.1.1

          12 July 2018 at 5:35 pm

          Surely he has cows.
          • greywarshark 11.1.1.1.1

            12 July 2018 at 8:16 pm

            Naki man values his herd too highly to do that sort of thing if he’s a dairy farmer. He doesn’t want vet bills, and better to not have them round in case there is some mycoplasma bovis signs that he hasn’t noticed.
    • bwaghorn 11.2

      12 July 2018 at 3:40 pm

      https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/105424698/acting-prime-minister-winston-peters-announces-950k-hydrogen-fuel-investment-in-taranaki

      You’ll be rapt with this though naki man . The coalition coming up with the goods again .
      • ianmac 11.2.1

        12 July 2018 at 4:14 pm

        And hydrogen development could lead to a major shift in energy supply.
        Exciting stuff!
      • Andre 11.2.2

        12 July 2018 at 4:38 pm

        This one has me a little suspicious. I’m wary that there may be some greenwashing going on here.

        The main industrial process for making hydrogen is steam reformation of natural gas. Which emits the carbon atoms in the natural gas as CO2 at the point of creating hydrogen. So sure, further downstream the hydrogen can be used for energy and it’s zero-emission, because the emissions have already occurred elsewhere. For almost all the potential users of hydrogen, the emissions from steam reformation of natural gas to hydrogen then using the hydrogen are greater than if the natural gas had just been directly used for the heat or to power an engine.

        Looking at the founder, it seems he’s closely linked to Todd Energy – who are big time owners of – guess what? Gas fields and production.

        Now maybe I’m a little too suspicious and he’s wanting to make a break from fossil fuels, is going to use some other technology, but is locating in Taranaki to tap into the oil and gas expertise there which overlaps strongly with the skills needed for hydrogen.

        We’ll see…
        • McFlock 11.2.2.1

          12 July 2018 at 4:54 pm

          good observation
        • lprent 11.2.2.2

          12 July 2018 at 5:15 pm

          I know nothing about this project, however four points do occur to me:-

          1. Taranaki has the most concentrated knowledge in NZ of containing and transporting gas. That makes it a logical region to develop any kind of gas technology in NZ because many of the skills will shift to other gases.

          2. Depends what they are using the hydrogen for. Looks to me like you are presuming that it is for fuel? Why? Most of the hydrogen in use is for higher value chemical processes like ammonia production. At the scale that is implied by the amounts, it seems more likely that this is what it used for.

          3. Steam reformation isn’t the only process and isn’t the main process used for hydrogen fuel. It just happens to be the one used for the majority production of commercial hydrogen – mostly used in chemical processes.

          Electrolysis (ie power to gas) is a non-carbon process if it uses hydro or wind power. Wind power strikes me as being a likely reason to be around the Taranaki especially if they use offshore windfarms in the old gasfield areas. They have a existing infrastructure for offshore in Taranaki.

          4. Even if they do fuel development using steam on natural gas (in the absence of the required infrastructure for turbine farms), Taranaki is about the only place in NZ that can do some moderately efficient sequestration. Lots of empty gas fields.

          They won’t be doing commercial natural gas to hydrogen for fuel because it is way more efficient to just burn natural gas directly and that would be way better in climate change terms than burning more complex hydrocarbons like those in petrol or diesel fractions.
          • Andre 11.2.2.2.1

            12 July 2018 at 5:30 pm

            1: Yep. I alluded to that at the end of my comment.

            2: from b waghorn’s link: “During his visit to New Plymouth, Peters said a grant of $950,000 would be made to Hiringa Energy and its partners, which is seeking to develop zero emission hydrogen transport fuel.

            The funding will be used to scope the engineering and design of two hydrogen generation facilities, up to four mobile compressed hydrogen storage and distribution containers, and up to three hydrogen refuelling stations. ”

            Transport fuel is the stated objective of the project.

            3: The lack of mention how the hydrogen will be generated plus the founder’s links to Todd Energy plus the very careful wording talking about zero emission transport fuel but neglecting to state zero emission hydrogen generation combines to pique my interest.

            4: Maybe it’s just me, but if I were planning on introducing a major new technology like CO2 sequestration into empty gas fields, you can bet I’d be talking it up big time. But a brief intertoobz search turned up … crickets.
            • lprent 11.2.2.2.1.1

              12 July 2018 at 5:51 pm

              Just thinking about the ways of storing and transporting raw hydrogen are hair-raising to even contemplate. Since talk of the hydrogen economy started, they haven’t exactly managed to figure out how to make it even moderately stable at normal atmospheric temperatures and pressures.

              In engineering terms actually generating the gas isn’t that much of a technical issue. I’d be much more interested in them figuring out how to make roads and refuelling stations less like high density explosion fields.

              If you wanted to try to develop a hydrogen based fuel infrastructure, then Taranaki is where you’d start it. Just trying to develop an end-to-end hydrogen system is going to damn hard regardless of the source of the fuel.

              Personally I’d think that developing EV’s and EV infrastructure would be a better idea. And in that case putting money into how to develop offshore windfarms would be a better idea. But that is best done from Taranaki as well.
              • Stuart Munro …

                12 July 2018 at 6:02 pm

                It’d be good to see a hydrogen dirigible for transTasman cargo now that automation makes unmanned ones plausible.
                • Andre …

                  12 July 2018 at 6:19 pm

                  Helium is much better for dirigibles. The Zeppelins had to use hydrogen because at the time the US was the only significant producer of helium and they weren’t selling to anyone else.

                  One of the problems with hydrogen is it makes its way through just about any materials very quickly, and usually does bad things to the material’s structure and properties as it does so. Look up hydrogen embrittlement and permeability. I’ve yet to see a good explanation why, but I’ll speculate it’s because when a hydrogen atom loses its electron, it’s just a tiny naked proton which can move easily through just about any kind of molecular structure, whereas every other kind of atom will always have two electrons in an extremely stable filled first orbital shell, making it much larger.

                  So by the time you’ve beefed up your bags to hold the hydrogen for long enough, you’ve added quite a weight penalty over using helium.
                  • McFlock …

                    12 July 2018 at 6:24 pm

                    thing is, hydrogen is plentiful and helium is not.
                  • Stuart Munro …

                    12 July 2018 at 6:49 pm

                    Helium is both expensive and finite. It also produces less lift.
                    • Andre …

                      12 July 2018 at 7:02 pm

                      It won’t be once the alien unicorns turn up and start excreting working fusion power plants out their back ends.

                      Or it’ll become even scarcer if we get serious about stopping fossil fuel use and stop extracting natural gas, of which helium is a by-product.

                      But as far as lift goes, the difference between a bouyancy of 1.12kg/m^3 for hydrogen and 1.03 kg/m^3 for helium disappears pretty quickly when you need much more robust containment for the hydrogen.
                    • Stuart Munro …

                      12 July 2018 at 7:18 pm

                      I think perhaps we should forego the alien unicorns for the moment. It is sufficient to use a contemporary equivalent of goldbeater skins for hydrogen and design for some loss. That’s part of the reason for using unmanned craft.

                      The logical trial is probably Cook Strait – the winds are more than ideal but there’s enough cargo and a decent hangar site somewhere near Blenheim.
                • McFlock …

                  12 July 2018 at 6:22 pm

                  I had a wonderful idea that if you contained the hydrogen in an aerogel matrix and then contain that in a lift bag in a dirigible, the resistance from the matrix would make the hydrogen burn controllably/extinguishably rather than catastrophically.

                  Googling informed me that this had already been considered, reduced the lifting differential by about 99% so was impractical, and was literally a thought exercise for first-year engineering students at some universities. Sigh. Just goes to show the value of formal education over googling.

                  But I still think there are some materials thresholds that some company or NASA have in a file somewhere, so when we get the right material (with a value of some function of a cost of W, a density of Y , and a temperature tolerance of >Z) suddenly cost-effective hydrogen lift bags would have lots of little cells that can contain the burning hydrogen from a leak without popping like a balloon (introducing more air/hydrogen contact so “boom”) or destroying the neighbouring cells (i.e. burning the entire vessel like the Hindenberg) and dirigibles will be the next big thing.

                  And logging trucks a thing of the past.
                  • Andre …

                    12 July 2018 at 6:49 pm

                    To get bouyancy, the total combined density of your lifting substance and containment has to be less then the density of air, which is around 1.2 kg/m^3.

                    Now consider, what is air? Air is a bunch of fairly low-mass molecules flying around and bouncing off each other, with no kind of structure whatsoever. The molecules are flying so fast and bouncing off each other so hard their average distance apart is actually very large. As soon as any kind of structure is imposed, then the intermolecular distances become much closer (and density goes way up). So even if that structure is almost entirely empty space, it’s still denser than a gas. The lowest density aerogel produced was 1.0 kg/m3, after the air is evacuated out of it, so if it were evacuated it would only have a bouyancy of 0.2 kg/m3 in air.

                    So really the only practical possibility to get bouyancy is replacing the air inside a very light container with another gas, but of lower density. Nitrogen has a molecular weight of 28, oxygen is 32. So the candidates are neon (20), helium (4) and hydrogen (2). Lithium, beryllium, boron and carbon are solids and fluorine is heavier than air. So using either hydrogen or helium can get you bouyancy over 1 kg/m^3 in air (which also has to lift whatever is containing your hydrogen or helium)
                    • McFlock …

                      12 July 2018 at 7:07 pm

                      Yeah. Seemed like a good idea at the pub though, lol.
                      Then I did the math.

                      And those bouyancy numbers are for sea level at a temperate temperature, too.

                      But the main danger with hydrogen is a cascading conflagration of large volumes of it. So if you can either limit the spread from one smaller cell to another or stop the fire from spreading along the gas cell, then hydrogen lift might be safer.

                      Essentially, I’m talking hazard minimisation and Stuart’s automation idea is hazard isolation (keeping people away from thing that goes boom). Helium is hazard elimination, but has its own costs and inefficiencies.
                    • Andre …

                      12 July 2018 at 7:28 pm

                      @McFlock

                      The materials side of it shouldn’t be underestimated. Hydrogen permeating through materials and changing their properties really is a problem, particularly if you’re expecting a long lifetime from your item.
              • Andre …

                12 July 2018 at 6:05 pm

                Yep. 20-odd years ago my boss, VP of Sales and Engineering (that’s an, ahem, interesting, combo of responsibilities) got wind of how much people were willing to pay for carbon composite tanks for hydrogen. So I got the job of scoping out what would need to happen for the company to be able to make them.

                He wasn’t much for listening to reason, but the list of materials technologies we would have to learn about and develop, the testing and detection equipment we’d need, and the hazards involved with handling hydrogen quickly set him off looking for a different next big thing.
      • Naki man 11.2.3

        12 July 2018 at 5:26 pm

        “The coalition coming up with the goods again”

        Wag you have overdosed on the Kool-Aid
        It will take more than a splash of cash from wristy’s slush fund to undo the damage Cindy an co have done to the $2.5 Billion pa Oil and Gas industry.
    • Cinny 11.3

      12 July 2018 at 5:06 pm

      Nah Naki man, you are wrong … it’s a day in the life of an alcoholic.

      You know that legal drug which national allowed to be sold in our supermarkets and dairies, increasing accessibility, devastating lives and draining our health system.

      “By 8.30am the men are wasted. That’s what time it was when we met them last Thursday, and they told us to come back before 7am the next day if we wanted a sober conversation.”
      • james 11.3.1

        12 July 2018 at 5:19 pm

        ““By 8.30am the men are wasted. That’s what time it was when we met them last Thursday, and they told us to come back before 7am the next day if we wanted a sober conversation.””

        Gee – I bet that they arn’t National voters.
        • McFlock 11.3.1.1

          12 July 2018 at 5:23 pm

          I bet that they arn’t National voters.

          Indeed. There is the possibility of a sober conversation.
          • james 11.3.1.1.1

            12 July 2018 at 7:06 pm

            Well played. Very funny.
            • Tricledrown 11.3.1.1.1.1

              12 July 2018 at 7:40 pm

              National get drunk on power
    • John up North 11.4

      13 July 2018 at 6:20 pm

      Naki man it’s the bludgers in suits sipping on chardonnay causing all the problems……….

      Aussie banks ripping the NZ tax collection by 2.2B, and I understand they settled on a figure which was only 80% of the sum originally contested.

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10617313

      Makes these other dudes look like amateurs.
12. AsleepWhileWalking 12

    12 July 2018 at 3:23 pm

    (GInteresting (+ disturbing) quiz on whether or not a species made it into the top 150 critically endangered *priority* list. The list is chosen by algorithm rather than human.

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/104303722/ten-critically-endangered-critters-with-the-craziest-stories
13. Sacha 13

    12 July 2018 at 3:38 pm

    Housing NZ’s board gets its first member who actually lives in state housing, disability advocate Dr Huhana Hickey: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1807/S00113/first-state-house-tenant-among-new-hnz-board-appointments.htm
14. cleangreen 14

    12 July 2018 at 4:04 pm

    Ad, on 5 – regarding this issue,
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12087184

    I am uneasy about the lack of ‘stated actions thwey will take’ as Professor James Renwick clearly shows some doubt about when he said; “it remained to be seen what efforts the coalition would actually make,” Ad,
    Quote;
    “Victoria University climate scientist Professor James Renwick said while it remained to be seen what efforts the coalition would actually make,”

    This along with the words used to explain the focus the group was using was; quote;

    “Carbon budgeting is a proposed part of the Government’s Zero Carbon Bill, which aspires to drive emissions of CO2”

    Ad – this sounds like they intend to keep on buying overseas “cheap carbon credits” and we have already bought many of these from ‘phoney Ukrane sources’ already havent we just??????
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11624441

    We need to see the fine print here as it just may still be another elaberate hoax.

    Jury is still out on this here I am afraid.
15. NZJester 15

    12 July 2018 at 4:08 pm

    Progressives in the US are starting to get very popular.
    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, for instance, won an election she wasn’t even running for in a neighboring district due to write-in votes. She can not run in two districts however so had to turn it down. A lot of these people are wining by word of mouth due to the MSM refusing to give them any coverage.
    The tide is slowly turning against Trump and the Republican in the US. It is even turning against the Corporate Democrats that are in a lot of cases just Republican Lite candidates and they are slowly losing a lot of primaries to true progressive candidates who are then in a lot of cases going on to win their seats.
    Hopefully, a majority of these socially conscious candidates can get elected there and help turn the US around. We here in New Zealand will feel the effects of the world imploding if the Republicans continue their warmongering and polluting of the globe.
    What little work Obama did in the way conservation and climate change reform has been slowly unraveled by Trump and his cronies.
16. Morrissey 16

    12 July 2018 at 5:00 pm

    Israel tightens noose around Gaza another notch
    July 11, 2018

    As mass Palestinian protests enter their fourth month, Israel is intensifying its already-crippling blockade of the Gaza Strip. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says Israel will close Kerem Shalom, the only crossing for commercial goods into Gaza. This will ban all imports and exports on top of the sweeping besiegement already in place. Israel is also reducing the fishing zone for Gazans off the Mediterranean coast to just six miles out, down from nine. More actions are said to be coming. This comes as Israeli forces continue to open fire on Palestinians taking part in the Great March of Return. The Gaza Health Ministry says that overall, 136 Palestinians have been killed, and more than 15600 injured. Israeli forces killed at least one Palestinian and wounded nearly 400 on Friday. The blockade and casualties have overwhelmed Gaza’s crippled healthcare system, which the UN warns is already at a breaking point. ….

    http://normanfinkelstein.com/2018/07/11/israel-tightens-noose-around-gaza-another-notch/
    • Cinny 16.1

      12 July 2018 at 5:21 pm

      Bibi is a fucken monster for closing Kerem Shalom.

      Israels reason for doing so…. flaming kites… “Tel Aviv made the move in response to Palestinians launching incendiary kites across the border”

      UN have condemned Israel.

      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/07/israel-closure-vital-gaza-commercial-border-takes-effect-180710184351245.html

      How’s the mrs, Bibi? Spent all of Israels money yet… what a piece of work she is.
      https://globalnews.ca/video/4288657/israeli-pm-netanyahus-wife-charged-with-fraud
      • Bewildered 16.1.1

        12 July 2018 at 5:44 pm

        Easy solution stop flying flaming kites
        • arkie 16.1.1.1

          12 July 2018 at 6:56 pm

          Stop hitting yourself, why are you hitting yourself
17. joe90 17

    12 July 2018 at 6:09 pm

    The big issues.

    /

    In a statement to The Post, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said, "[Kelly] was displeased because he was expecting a full breakfast and there were only pastries and cheese." https://t.co/azDbYtgy20— Robert Costa (@costareports) July 11, 2018
18. R.P Mcmurphy 18

    12 July 2018 at 8:23 pm

    I am getting heartily sick of Simon Dallow.He led the charge for John Key and shilled for him for 8, 3/4 years till key jumped ship and now he, dallow is sitting up there every night t trying to shaft the government at every opportunity. he has become slimier and slimier over the years and it is really time for him to go.
19. eco maori 19

    13 July 2018 at 8:08 am

    Good Morning The Am Show .
    The stats on PEE don’t surprise me Duncan I see it clearly that’s why I don’t like people using the word crack and our rural provinces use of these poisons are higher than Auckland the regions that have been suppressed of investment for 9 years go figure there is another factor affecting that .
    Loyd that’s the way no need to brand all of the people for one idiot’s bad behavior in Britain .
    As for trump Mark well you think its OK for trump to fly around Papatunuku and demanded that the rest of the United Nations members double the money they spend on the IDIOT war machine when they know that they might as well just dig a big hole and pour the money in it . We have billions of people in Africa and the Middle East and right on his door step North America all around Papatuanuku who need the west help just to get a drink of water . It would be OK if trump was demanding for more money to help these people and don’t believe any stats coming out of America about trump those will be manipulated by him to make him look good enough said .
    I gave my thoughts on our Nurses last nite and I back the words I said.
    Fonterra should have brought Nestle all those years ago now they would be the biggest food company on the Papatuanuku .
    Yes Tamiti there are good polytechnic in Rotorua but they need to connect the trainees to the jobs after there training finished thats what is needed .
    Duncan so you think that trump locking thousands of mokopunas in cages on the United states boarder’s.??????????????? is not moko abuse. The reason there is so much bad stats on mokos is the Governments have caused this by starving te tangata whenua of money of jobs and mana using the media to smear maoris mana Mean while the wealthy tangata whenua are in total denial that there is a big problem with this system towards Maori so long as there hip pocktes are full they put there heads in Papatuanuku any culture that’s suppressed and divided will produce bad stats and whose pushing the Pee.
    I like the Eco Maori ———- so I won’t be trying to get my face plastered all over the media anyway the sandflys have a farcical injunction to stop this happening there are many stories of the bad behaviour of the bad sandflys now.
    Ka kite ano . There is no morriori they are just part of the first Maori to arrive here that’s another way to suppress Maori and people fall for it Hook line and sinker.
    Ka kite ano
20. eco maori 20

    13 July 2018 at 8:36 am

    The Am Show Maori Culture is a very humble culture very Great culture not many cultures can trace there genealogy back to the start who has waiata that traces history back to the start our carvings all OUR great Arts We have the history of Our arrival to Aotearoa on great Waka its that great the Europeans could not fathom that a culture like ours who uses Papatuanuku to navigate could sail better than them thousands of years before them . I agree with Te Ururoa that Aotearoa should use our great maori culture to improve its profile not suppress it I will not let the latter happen. Ka kite ano
21. eco maori 21

    13 July 2018 at 9:12 am

    Yes Aotearoa needs to do more to care for our elderly tangata a couple of weeks ago I came across a elderly man his house was run down living by him self his main gripe was his phone was not working when it rained so I made a call they new who the call was from and what do you know his phone was fixed that day I have a link below .
    We don’t need just play grounds for the elderly we need warm dry places were they can meet have a cup of tea and talk.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/105424159/auckland-looks-at-benefits-of-playgrounds-for-oldies-in-bid-to-become-agefriendly ka kite ano P.S You see national want our elderly focused on things that don’t real effect them when our elderly should be focused on the correct issues that will benefit them
22. eco maori 22

    13 July 2018 at 6:53 pm

    Good evening Newshub I agree with the councils we need more public toilets may be they all get together and design a toilet block that’s is cheap durable looks good and can be installed in one day off the back of a truck so long as the pluming is on site. Tawhiri is in winter mode Ingrd
    ka kite ano P.S I was going to have a break tonight but I got back in time for this
23. eco maori 23

    13 July 2018 at 7:23 pm

    Good evening The Crowd Goes Wild The foot ball world cup has been a great successful
    everyone can not be winners.
    Yep C J would make a great presenter.
    I don’t want to back sports stars with what happened with the football
    I have to congratulate this new wahine sports star winner of the under 20 ladies IAAF World shot put Maddison Wesche Ka pai mana wahine
    Ka kite ano P.S That life after rugby of Pacific is a good thing that will get our young stars to think about there retirement
24. eco maori 24

    14 July 2018 at 7:52 am

    Here we go I still back my words about trolls being paid by national to troll any people who are left supporters they have horded heaps of money over the last nine years to pay for this look at the gon brash $50.000 in one day to let right extremist speak. This Ladie and I have different views on trolls some trolls just put out information that is total lies all in the goal to sway public opinion. they scour the net looking for stories that they can spin it in a way that makes every one think that a lot of people have the same view as them by minuplating the positive or negative thums up or down on stories to suit there objective which is all ways to the right winged view of lock em up kick em out give our tax cuts why should the poor have our money human caused climate is a lie trump is a good guy these are so easy for Eco Maori to see.
    These trolls all have a silverspoon in there mouths living with mom and dad and only have to pay for there entertainment activities so how does the left combat this well I have my Idea’s but they would be to extreme like throw them all on a Island with no comms yea nar thats the way the neoliberal brain thinks. link below

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/104974643/how-trolls-make-money-from-their-online-hate-speech Ka kite ano
25. eco maori 25

    14 July 2018 at 8:18 am

    The big picture with GM Food is we cannot TRUST big business who are peddling this Genitally modified food this food could cause deaths 5 years after eating it and the big companys will just cover it up when they get caught with there pants down they run the company into bankruptcy run with there ill gotten profits all the way to the bank.
    Another reason is that this GM food can change the genetics of the being eating this stuff change and thats a big problem. Have the neoliberals showen that we can trust them Know so lets keep Aotearoa GE FREE and everyone will pay a Premium for OUR GEFREE FOOD link below ka kite ano

    https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/105433107/us-trials-bring-gm-ryegrass-a-step-closer&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwiO9LOy75zcAhWBFIgKHaXRCdAQFggFMAA&client=internal-uds-cse&cx=006730714154542492986:oh6vl0ybuqy&usg=AOvVaw0q71fG3pGGXB-MBImJYfQk
26. eco maori 26

    14 July 2018 at 10:18 am

    There you go Lisa from the Nation we can not trust company’s that manipulate Laws to help them flogg off there rubbish products . Johnson and Johnson for selling faulty products ie hip replacement products we have to have all products verified investigated by Kiwis why aren’t these thing pear reviewed by other scientist who can give them the thums up or down. We put to much trust in the American system relying on the FDA to pruduce safe test for these prouducts which can be manipulated by rich lobbyist that has to change.
    Ka kite ano
27. eco maori 27

    14 July 2018 at 12:01 pm

    Here you go two countrys who can carry hunting Tangaroa beautiful creates the biggest animals that have ever lived still hunting the under the farcical cause of scientific research the link is below P.S I think we should boycott there tourist industrys and prouducts

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/13/killing-blue-whale-disconnected-nature-sea-ignorance
    Ka kite ano

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