Open mike 12/12/2020

40 comments on “Open mike 12/12/2020 ”

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1. francesca 1

   12 December 2020 at 7:20 am

   Good to see a bit of cooperation amongst scientists

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/11/oxford-covid-vaccine-to-be-combined-with-sputnik-jab-for-trial
   • francesca 1.1

     12 December 2020 at 7:41 am

     Mind you , it's not the first time

     Back in July ..

     https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-cyber-russia-vacci/russias-r-pharm-signs-deal-to-make-uk-developed-covid-19-vaccine-idUKKCN24I1Z2

     MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russian drugmaker R-Pharm has signed a deal with AstraZeneca for it to manufacture a COVID-19 vaccine being developed by the British pharmaceuticals giant and Oxford University, it said on Friday.
     • WeTheBleeple 1.1.1

       12 December 2020 at 9:26 am

       Scientists love to cooperate they're largely apolitical when it comes to research. The idea is to better mankind in most cases.

       Corporate and political entities hijack science for personal ambition and give science a bad name.
2. Pat 2

   12 December 2020 at 7:44 am

   [deleted quote due to lack of link]

   and then

   "Even the beleaguered Queenstown-Lakes District recorded price growth of 10.8% in the three months to November."

   https://www.interest.co.nz/property/108373/house-price-growth-was-strongest-palmerston-north-and-weakest-christchurch-over-last

   One trick ponies
   • vto 2.1

     12 December 2020 at 8:01 am

     High capital values help nobody

     Except lenders

     Go ask yourself

     Imagine how wealthy we would all be

     If our homes cost very little

     And our businesses

     The amount of money left in our back pockets would be unfeasibly higher….

     High capital values help nobody

     Other than lenders

     Go ask yourself
     • Pat 2.1.1

       12 December 2020 at 8:04 am

       Alternatively, go ask the Government.
       • Rosemary McDonald 2.1.1.1

         12 December 2020 at 8:15 am

         …go ask the Government.

         "The spinner for wealthy people."
         • Pat 2.1.1.1.1

           12 December 2020 at 8:21 am

           Touche’
     • Phillip ure 2.1.2

       12 December 2020 at 8:47 am

       wot vto said ..
     • Tricledrown 2.1.3

       12 December 2020 at 10:39 am

       [Deleted]

       [You have a Moderation note waiting for you here: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11-12-2020/#comment-1770573 ]
       • Incognito 2.1.3.1

         12 December 2020 at 10:50 am

         [You have a Moderation note waiting for you here: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-11-12-2020/#comment-1770573 ]
       • Barfly 2.1.3.2

         12 December 2020 at 4:07 pm

         Quoted by Incognito from the SIS

         "Political neutrality

         The NZSIS is a politically neutral agency……"

         Yeah …right the SIS didn't seem that dam politically neutral regarding setting up Phil Goff in the Israeli back packer affair did they?? You know the one where Goff got a belated apology from Kitteredge years after the damage was done?

         https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/goff-airs-suspicions-about-spy-briefing/NRN7EIBOGUJM6W32XKU5IKM47M/

         https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/-i-told-the-whole-truth-phil-goff-vindicated-over-sis-briefing-claims-6166450
         • Patricia Bremner 2.1.3.2.1

           12 December 2020 at 8:09 pm

           They always looked at the Left Barfly and anyone different, that is why they were blind to the behaviour on the Right, always looking the wrong way!!
     • mikesh 2.1.4

       12 December 2020 at 11:07 am

       High capital values are there to help people? Well, well, we learn something new every day.
   • gsays 2.2

     12 December 2020 at 8:45 am

     If only the PM could accept large increases to wages and benefits.

     If only the PM couldn't accept 'property investors' (don't say landlord) non-compliance of paying tax.

     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/ird-cracks-down-on-residential-property-investors-shirking-tax-rules/WBA7RQE3DDFCE7IFUBGMZPCAEE/
     • vto 2.2.1

       12 December 2020 at 9:29 am

       "If only the PM could accept large increases to wages and benefits."

       Link benefits and minimum wage to house price inflation

       Job done

       Entirely justifiable
       • mikesh 2.2.1.1

         12 December 2020 at 11:20 am

         Link benefits and minimum wage to house price inflation

         A 20% wage-price spiral. Wow.
     • Grafton Gully 2.2.2

       12 December 2020 at 8:17 pm

       "If only the PM could accept large increases to wages and benefits." But an increase in benefits might be be a disincentive to working and she gets advice directly or indirectly from Dave Bratt at MSD about the importance of work.

       In a speech at the Conference for General Practice last month, ministry principal health adviser David Bratt said that it was important GPs talk to their unemployed patients about working. This included asking people "what they wanted to do for the rest of their life.

       http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/9037689/Doctors-told-to-prescribe-work-ethic

       It's the Work Ethic idea – still very influential.

       [Tidied up the format of quoted text to make it clearer]
       • Incognito 2.2.2.1

         12 December 2020 at 9:15 pm

         As far as I can tell, Dr Bratt was first mentioned here on TS in 2008, talking of opening a can of worms!
   • Stuart Munro 2.3

     12 December 2020 at 9:00 am

     It's a curiosity that a government vehemently opposed to loading the economy with the deadweight costs of excessive taxation should be such pathetic boosters of an equivalent or greater deadweight cost paid to banks, with no redeeming social return.

     Some of the explanation no doubt lies with the ability of councils to inflate rates in a rising property market, to pay the nodding dogs of council owned corporations those massive undeserved salaries.

     It is fascinating to consider however, what a competent and enlightened government that actually was concerned about the economy would do. Pretty sure it wouldn't be endless support for speculators and banks.
     • Pat 2.3.1

       12 December 2020 at 9:03 am

       The rates take is unimpacted by property values …but i agree with the rest of your statement….their competence is certainly in question….but then they have little competition on that front.
       • Foreign waka 2.3.1.1

         12 December 2020 at 10:13 am

         Rates are going up at a rate of 5% and more. In the time I lived in my house I have had an increase of my pay at best pa 2-4%. Right now its going negative as REAL inflation bites but my pay is frozen. Rates in the same time increased by 5.7% pa. (in real terms)

         Now, I don't know but for me this looks like behaviour you see from those online fraudsters, just deducting small amounts regularly, bleeding the account owner dry but get rich in the process.

         Meanwhile, we are being told that the outdated sewer system, for which we have paid maintenance for decades, is broken and there is no money. Hahahah, yeah the money is in the extraordinary pay packets of the ones making false statements. Now we hear its global warming that causes the stink. Oh my lord save us from those tabloid reporters.
         • Pat 2.3.1.1.1

           12 December 2020 at 10:26 am

           Yes rates have increased above the (offical) rate of inflation for years but that is unconnected to property values.

           As to the lack of maintenance that situation is only going to become increasingly unaffordable…not only do we need to replace/maintain the existing infrastructure we also need to expand it…an exponential growth situation that cannot be supported in either monetary or resource terms…..and something that everyone wilfully averts their gaze from.
           • Foreign waka 2.3.1.1.1.1

             12 December 2020 at 10:47 am

             So we pay above inflation increases to cover maintenance of waste water, supply of drinking water, infrastructure and let me mention public transport to make sure the core need is covered. The money is collected and if you don't pay you can loose your house (!) And yet we, the payer have no protection and council seem to be not accountable.

             Here is my question. Are NZlanders able to sue the council down to their personal enrichment for taking the hard earned cash called rates of those actually working but splashing it about on pet projects and themselves?

             I feel there ought to be balance in the justice system. If a person can be evicted for not paying rates than this person must have protection under the same law to have these expectation met without having to fork out more and more money. Since all is commercialized, lets work with that and use the consumer guaranties act.
             • mikesh …

               12 December 2020 at 11:42 am

               The problem of the high salaries of CEO's is not restricted to local councils. It is endemic throughout the economy.
             • mikesh …

               12 December 2020 at 11:45 am

               The problem of high CEO remuneration is not just restricted to local bodies. It is endemic throughout the economy.
             • Graeme …

               12 December 2020 at 8:41 pm

               A lot of rates rising faster than inflation is that councils have been reluctant to spend what is really required to maintain their assets and grow those assets to cater for future growth. This has been going on almost forever. Very few get elected to Council saying they are going to raise rates to spend more on infrastructure. And then there's strong lobbies that campaign on reducing rates, and the effect is further reductions in maintenance further exasperating the situation.

               So maintenance and upgrades get deferred until things break, and then cost considerably more to fix.

               Districts that are growing strongly like Queenstown and Central Otago are able to get very large contributions from developers, along with a growing capital value, so are able to have relatively low rates keep sort of ahead of maintenance and growth. Older, declining districts, say Gore or Oamaru, generally have high rates and struggle with infrastructure.
               • Foreign waka …

                 12 December 2020 at 9:07 pm

                 To be honest, I really don't have any sympathy for the council member that over the years have had salaries that made your eyes water and spending rates on things like silly signage to "promote" a city. To top it all off, they all have subsidized pensions and I am 100% sure none of them have difficulties paying their rates. So no, the money paid was not theirs to spend in the way they did. Full stop. Consumers need protection from these spurious expenditures at the cost of those who can be evicted if they don't pay up.

                 As for those special interest people who are so important that the council has to listen to them, perhaps the rates need to be pegged against income, including trusts rather than property value. So those who influence to get their way on what is so important will have to pay for it.
                 Because obviously planning is not in the councils vocabulary. Even people on an unemployment benefit are being asked to go to a budgeting services.
       • Stuart Munro 2.3.1.2

         12 December 2020 at 9:09 pm

         The rates take is unimpacted by property values

         Don't you believe it. If property values were flat 5% rises in rates year after year would have the councils facing numerous acrimonious public meetings at best, more likely the Alan Parsons treatment.
         • Pat 2.3.1.2.1

           12 December 2020 at 11:11 pm

           Can not agree….indeed Christchurch has had 8% rates increases year on year post quakes and the property market has been one of the most restrained in the country….no rebellion there, only the standard grizzling

           Rates are determined by the council budget spread across the ratings base…what the properties are worth is irrelevant except in their relationship to each other.
           • Stuart Munro 2.3.1.2.1.1

             13 December 2020 at 10:40 am

             The quakes make a better excuse than naked greed – and there's a fair amount of fatigue in Chch, as well as anger focused on other governance failures – Southern Response etc.
     • Phillip ure 2.3.2

       12 December 2020 at 9:12 am

       our whole system is set up to service the banksters..

       the speculators play that system..'cos they can..

       but for the average citizen…they are in thrall to those banksters…for most of their lives ..and for what .?

       it is seriously fucked up..

       sucking in an inordinate share of the economy..

       nationalise them..and reconfigure how we do the whole set-up..

       focussed more on the needs of the people..(socialise housing/end poverty etc etc..)

       and no longer on the banksters..

       get their boots off our throats..
       • vto 2.3.2.1

         12 December 2020 at 9:27 am

         yep, more and more of our society becomes 'financialised' and hence subjected to an interest charge.

         we should look seriously at the reasons debt and interest are illegal and immoral in other societies. Most people have absolutely no idea this idea even exists.

         Down the spiraling drainhole we go – of this there is little doubt
         • Phillip ure 2.3.2.1.1

           12 December 2020 at 10:17 am

           we should also look at those countries that have long-term stable housing values ..

           find out how do they do that .

           then do that here…

           end this giant crapshoot/ponzi scheme…

           the people are the losers here..

           ..and this must change..
       • mikesh 2.3.2.2

         12 December 2020 at 11:54 am

         We should stop the private banking sector creating money. Then, if they wanted to lend money they would have borrow on fixed term from the private sector.

         We should also prevent fractional reserve lending.
3. Grey Area 3

   12 December 2020 at 1:35 pm

   https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/11/politics/supreme-court-texas-trump-biden/index.html

   Yes!
   • Treetop 3.1

     12 December 2020 at 2:25 pm

     Trump is in his own bubble just worrying about his law suits. It appears as if Covid does not require his attention as Commander in Chief.

     Just under 6 weeks of Trump's self interest being a priority and then his ridiculous term is up. I am looking forward to the inauguration of Biden on 20 January 2021.
4. Stuart Munro 4

   12 December 2020 at 3:24 pm

   The Positive Pixie seems to have taken some PR advice at last, from someone other than the Boagywoman even.

   I guess her bestest shadow cabinet colleagues couldn't tell her.
5. logie97 5

   12 December 2020 at 4:35 pm

   Health department's Covid Tracer.

   I scan at every possible retail, or club, visit and it annoys the hell out of me to watch so many fellow citizens breeze in and out of these places without a care.

   So now I want to go one better and have the Bluetooth option to improve the apps monitoring of my whereabouts.

   Yet, an iPhone 6 is not "Smartphone" enough apparently we need to have the latest operating system.

   Now not all of us can afford to upgrade our handsets at a whim. And I would suggest that goes for most of the target market – elderly and middle aged.
   • RosieLee 5.1

     12 December 2020 at 7:20 pm

     Exactly. And I deeply resent being classified as an oldie who isn’t tech savvy.

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