Open mike 13/06/2022

163 comments on “Open mike 13/06/2022 ”

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1. PsyclingLeft.Always 1

   13 June 2022 at 7:08 am

   https://www.nme.com/en_au/news/music/prime-ministers-athony-albanese-and-jacinda-ardern-trade-vinyl-records-after-meeting-in-sydney-3244248

   A Cold Winters Morn….but this is great. (And maybe haters gonna hate. Fuck them : )
   • fender 1.1

     13 June 2022 at 12:29 pm

     Lucky Anthony, the Boodle Boodle Boodle album is rare, unless they've started re-pressing them. A few years ago I declined buying one for $100 at a second hand Cuba St. store and still regret it to this day.
     • PsyclingLeft.Always 1.1.1

       13 June 2022 at 5:32 pm

       Oh cheers reply matey. Amongst my vinyl ( I know : ) I have it…Echo Records …..price on it $6.99.

       That song and the Dunedin sound…Flying Nun.. still awesome today.

       I met up some Americans while back..they saying that Flying Nun still highly rated on American Student Radio. Quality. Was a cool thing to read Jacinda connection
     • I Feel Love 1.1.2

       14 June 2022 at 7:54 am

       Reissue. I still got my original copy plus the 2nd ep, great records.
2. weka 2

   13 June 2022 at 9:05 am

   Straight men, just so you know you’re not exempt. You will be expected to be sexually attracted to trans women, and because self ID means any man who says he’s a woman is a woman and thus trans, you will have to learn to be gay. Think this isn’t happening? Lesbians have been at the brunt of this now for years, it’s called the cotton ceiling.

   To be *very clear, this isn’t trans people generally. This is trans activists and gender identity ideologists. Trans people obviously have concerns about whether people won’t date them because of actual transphobia, but what’s happening here is that male bodied people are telling lesbians they have to learn to like girl dick. Next up, straight men will have to learn to like girl dick or be branded transphobic. Don’t worry, there are workshops now that will teach you.

   if all that seems outlandish, it is. It’s also rape culture and the identity left is endorsing it. Think it won’t affect ordinary people? It’s now at policy level in the UK, and there is a big push to say sexual attraction is based on gender identity not sex. This means there is no such thing as homosexuality (or heterosexuality), so it’s also a homophobic position. In NZ there is a push to replace sex with gender identity in other areas (eg Stats NZ), we will see if the gender identity sexuality ideology takes hold here.

   https://twitter.com/francesweetman/status/1536085843718426625
   • Rosemary McDonald 2.1

     13 June 2022 at 9:23 am

     Challenging trans ideology is clearly having an impact. The clip below is recent, and yet the trans protagonists are carrying on as if there has been no research that emphatically questions the safety of 'affirming' therapies. There's a strong hint of the cornered cat about the presenter…and the professionals who proffer their opinions on some US states severely restricting or criminalising medicalised therapies for gender dysphoric children are almost creepy. They are coming across as a cult.

     We are heading into crucial times on this issue…
     • weka 2.1.1

       13 June 2022 at 10:41 am

       Blows my mind that some people appear to not have educated themselves about what happens with gender reassignment surgeries, what the complication rates are, the lack of research showing outcomes. I mean I get it on one level, reading about the surgeries is challenging for many I think (myself included) but reading about the complications is full on. If one believes that surgery is useful for teens, all that can be ignored I guess. I suspect there's a fair amount of superficial acceptance of trans humanism too, and that medicine is Good therefore this must be too.

       Weird though, because Bee must have a research team, and it's not hard to find out the arguments against child and teen medical/surgical transition.

       The other aspect though is that in the US there really are reasons to be concerned about Republicans passing anti-trans laws. Is the law the dude mentions really saying no to 'gender-affirming health care' for youth? Is that a euphemism for surgery and hormones? Or does it apply to all trans specific health care for people transitioning? Let's not forget these are the same legislators that are removing abortion rights.
       • Rosemary McDonald 2.1.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 10:58 am

         Is that a euphemism for surgery and hormones? Or does it apply to all trans specific health care for people transitioning? Let's not forget these are the same legislators that are removing abortion rights.

         These laws are very sensibly putting the brake on the rampant medicalisation of gender dysphoria and will protect children/youth from being experimented on by those creepy vivisectionists. Claiming that there is a 'right' to such 'treatments' is disingenuous. The trans activists are (again) coat tailing on other legitimate battles for rights…such as the availability of safe abortion services. As they are wont to do.
         • weka 2.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 11:25 am

           depends on what is being banned. If someone has had surgery they will need medical care afterwards, sometimes for a long time. Is that banned too? What if they need surgery to remedy complications? Are they still allowed to get hormone prescriptions if already on hormones? What if they just want counselling but not drugs and surgery?

           None of that is explained. Both sides (Bee and Republicans) are as bad as each other. It's all rhetoric and I don't trust either of them. So sure, we can be thankful that there is a brake, but we should also be looking at what should be put in place instead.

           Some conservatives will be wanting to protect children, some will be wanting to remove trans people from society.
     • weka 2.1.2

       13 June 2022 at 10:49 am

       ok I watched the first few minutes and am stopping now, because it's basically propaganda. I do think there are problems with what Republicans are doing, but the solution isn't to allow free-for-all transition. The whole 'all medical people agree' is such bullshit, and the fact that in NZ people are trying to stop a conference on gender therapy for youth because it's taking a critical look at the affirmation only model tells me that backlash can be expected against trans people. Because there is no public mandate for this, and otherwise liberal/left leaning people will support bans because that's the only way to stop things now.
   • Visubversa 2.2

     13 June 2022 at 9:26 am

     Unfortunately, as the loudest voices in the Transactivists movement are the autogynephiliacs (the men who are sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as women) and they are mostly heterosexual, they are not sexually interested in straight men. A big part of their paraphilia is identification of themselves not only as women, but as lesbians. Sex with lesbians is seen as an ultimate validation of their being a woman. That is why it is lesbians who are finding their dating sites stuffed full of "transbians", and it is lesbians who are being bullied and blackmailed into accepting their "girldicks".
     • weka 2.2.1

       13 June 2022 at 10:32 am

       True. What interests me here is that McKinnon said what they said (in 2018), making it a political position I think. The idea is that people won't sleep with trans people because they think there is something wrong with being trans, but this has now morphed into the rapey, you should ignore someone's body and your own sexual orientation.

       I think it's significant that this has been pushed by trans women (males), not trans men (females). AGP is almost certainly part of that, although the need for validation is across all trans people as far as I can tell (hence pronouns and giving birth and wanting to be called a father). AGP trans people have a quite specific need and way of approaching that.

       I also think the patriarchal hierarchy is too: people being harrassed in this order: lesbians, gay men, heterosexual men (maybe)
   • Molly 2.3

     13 June 2022 at 9:27 am

     As you point out, this perspective isn't based on the rights of transgender people to live without discrimination, it is proponents of Queer theory coat-tailing on a separate movement to appropriate support and credibility.

     The colonisation of sexual orientation organisations with gender identity has been phenomenally successful. Now the initially welcome guest, has taken over the house and unpacking a lot of unwanted baggage.

     This unfortunately seems to be initiating a pushback on gay, lesbian, bisexual, transsexual hard-won rights and acceptance. The baser proponents of Queer theory have been unquestioningly provided with support and platforms. When people realise what they are saying, there will be resistance not only to those ideas, but also unfortunately to the movements that gave them influence.

     My disdain remains with the cascade of institutions, politicians and experts who promote all aspects of Queer theory without even the most cursory scrutiny.
     • Visubversa 2.3.1

       13 June 2022 at 10:14 am

       There is of course a shedload of $$$$ in the promotion of gender identity. Organisations that used to be funded to promote the rights and protections of same sex attracted people are now almost entirely funded to promote "queer" theory and with it the ideology of gender identity. Plus – particularly in America – which has a "for profit" health system, there is a lot of money to be made from lifelong dependence on artificial hormones and sterilizing and mutilating (removal of healthy tissue) surgeries with very high "complications" rates.

       https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/us-sex-reassignment-surgery-market
       • Anker 2.3.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 11:37 am

         Agree with all your comments Weka, Molly and Visubversa.

         Perhaps a survery of the straight men on this site to see if they would be happy to sleep with transbians with their girl dicks?
         • Puckish Rogue 2.3.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 12:18 pm

           You can always go onto youporn or similar sites to see how popular it really is

           So I’ve been told
           • Molly 2.3.1.1.1.1

             13 June 2022 at 1:10 pm

             In my recent foray into reading about porn the growing influence of hypno cissy porn has come up multiple times, so it may pay for some to approach your suggestion with caution.

             There's now quite a lot I wish I didn't know, although it still seems necessary to have some knowledge on the topic.
             • Puckish Rogue …

               13 June 2022 at 1:59 pm

               "Reading about"

               Cautions no fun, best to jump in the deep end!
               • Molly …

                 13 June 2022 at 3:12 pm

                 I find porn really difficult to watch, even for 'research purposes'.

                 Have the same aversion to excessively gory or violent scenes on the screen. But am able to read in prose what I can't handle on screen.

                 That distance buffer allows me to rake in the info with less of an emotional reaction.
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   13 June 2022 at 5:33 pm

                   Interesting.

                   I find reading about it is more disturbing than watching it, at least thats the way fiction is for me.

                   Though I have to admit when it comes to porn I prefer the over top, funny stuff

                   The bad acting, worse dialogue, stick on moustaches, that kind of thing
             • Puckish Rogue …

               13 June 2022 at 2:05 pm

               On a more serious note I watched What Is A Woman the other day.

               It won't tell you anything you don't already know (and I don't want to give away spoilers)

               But here is Blaire Whites reaction and review of the documentary
               • Anker …

                 13 June 2022 at 3:07 pm

                 Great review of What is a Women.

                 Surprized that Blaire didn’t talk about the gender lecturer who came across as (sorry to use a derogatory term), a crackpot.
                 • Visubversa …

                   13 June 2022 at 5:08 pm

                   I loved the bit about chickens having an assigned gender,
                   • Puckish Rogue …

                     13 June 2022 at 5:27 pm

                     I don't know what it was but she was really making me angry, maybe the condescending way she was talking (even more than the other crackpots)

                     Her whole demeanour changed when Lupron was mentioned , she didn't like that at all
                   • Molly []

                     14 June 2022 at 4:49 am

                     Watched the Blair White video. Good points, well made.

                     TBH, though I can think of a quite a few rad FEMS who could've knocked out those points in a quarter of the time, made a cup of tea, and got down to the nitty-gritty by the halfway point.

                     Likely my text bias at play.

                     The great aspect of Blaire White is the extensive reach into a distinctly non-feminist audience that has concerns about specific aspects of gender ideology, combined with the nonchalant waving away of accusations of transphobia.

                     It was a fair review. Award more stars then I thought it merited.
                   • weka …

                     13 June 2022 at 8:18 pm

                     the bit where she acknowledges that Santa isn't real, "but to that child they are".

                     It's hyper individualism. Which I guess is another explanation for the cotton ceiling stuff – all that matters is what the individual feels/wants.
                   • weka …

                     13 June 2022 at 8:20 pm

                     These Romans Americans are crazy.
               • Molly …

                 13 June 2022 at 3:18 pm

                 Thanks, will watch.

                 In return a link to the free-to-view Dysphoric by Vaishnavi Sundar.

                 You might find Part 1 a bit slow going, but the pace picks up and keeps improving
                 • Puckish Rogue …

                   13 June 2022 at 5:34 pm

                   I'll give it a watch
               • Populuxe1 …

                 13 June 2022 at 8:33 pm

                 Urgh. Blair White is a bit too hard right MAGA for my tastes.
         • Visubversa 2.3.1.1.2

           13 June 2022 at 12:48 pm

           On the money as usual. I bet most parents have no idea that their children are being taught this stuff at school.

           https://theministryhasfallen.substack.com/p/the-terrible-coyness-of-trans-ideology
   • Corey Humm 2.4

     13 June 2022 at 1:30 pm

     As a gay man I've been told by activists that "same sex attraction is transphobic" and noticed left wing orgs saying "same gender attraction" and that saying you're only interested in biological makes is transphobic and reducing people to their privates, but that's what the activists are doing.

     However, I don't hear trans people saying this, it's almost always thier cis hetero allies on Twitter who say this stuff for social media likes and unfortunately corporations, govt institutions see this and pander to that lot.

     I've never met a trans person who thought not wanting to sleep with someone is transphobic my trans friends say "times ain't that tough , I don't need to guilt people into sex" I've only met allies who say this.

     Genitals are huge part of being gay. In fact it's 99% of it to a lot of gay men lol.

     I find this deeply, deeply homophobic and borderline endorsed conversion therapy.

     Ive seen it in lots of discourse.

     I couldn't help notice that the ACLU when the overturning people who would be most effected by the overturning of Roe v Wade didn't list women once, in fact it listed the LGBT+ first (not everything is about the LGBT)

     This "if you're not attracted to x you're a bigot" is what happens when you constantly update the definitions of bigotry, to me, transphobia is when someone can't get a job, or rent a house because they are trans, it's when you want to demean someone for being trans, it's when you want to hurt someone for being trans, transphobia is not I don't want to sleep with you.

     You cannot change someone's sexuality whether they are straight gay bi and to attempt to do so is evil and quite frankly anyone attempting to do so should be charged with attempting conversion therapy, which is illegal.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.4.1

       13 June 2022 at 2:25 pm

       Agree 100% Corey.
     • Visubversa 2.4.2

       13 June 2022 at 5:15 pm

       Unfortunately Corey, as I said above, for the autogynephiliacs, who are constantly seeking "validation" of their identity as a woman through forcing themselves into every women's activity or spaces from bathrooms to knitting groups for their sexual gratification, almost the ultimate (apart from perhaps selection for an Olympic Games women's team) is to blackmail, bamboozle or bully a lesbian into having sex with them.
     • weka 2.4.3

       13 June 2022 at 7:43 pm

       I find it deeply homophobic too, and am at a loss to understand why progressives support this. Part of it is No Debate and the threat of cancellation and slap downs, but even so it's very odd.
     • Molly 2.4.4

       14 June 2022 at 4:37 am

       Unfortunately, the messaging is not limited to the Twitter sphere.

       Gay, lesbian and bisexual youth seeking information and support from Rainbow Youth NZ and Inside Out (the 2 main well-founded organisations) will also be told that they are same-gender attracted, not same-sex attracted.

       The movement that screams about conversion therapy has in yet another linguistic twist, removed any and all sexual orientations – including heterosexual – from consideration. Despite sexual orientation being a protected characteristic in the Human Rights Act 1993.

       Rainbow Youth website has zero occurrences of the word "lesbian".

       Unfortunately, this damage is compounded by advice – or lack of it – regarding consent with sexual partners. While some noises are made regarding being open, contradictory advice is offered regarding your right to not be 'outed' until you feel it is something you want to do.

       There's a whole conversation about the legal charge of Sex by Deception that is avoided

       What does this mean for young people inexperienced and uncertain about exploring their sexual nature's? If you want to know research. You will find some young people laughing about their casual sexual partners only discovering their sex, AFTER intimacy. The resultant distress is a source of amusement, as it is viewed as exposing bigotry – an obsession with genitals.

       Old school feminists, and old school gay and lesbian rights activists had more accurate names for this practice:

       Corrective sex or corrective rape.
   • Populuxe1 2.5

     13 June 2022 at 8:55 pm

     With respect, I really don't think you have the faintest idea who or what "straight" men will or won't go to bed with. Speaking from experience. Whether or not they're open about it is another matter.
     Also I'm pretty sure that's not how patriarchy works. You are absolutely entitled to the way you feel about the topic, but framing heterosexual cis-men as being vulnerable parties in the sexual ecosystem is not the strongest argument I've ever heard.

     Straight men, just so you know you’re not exempt. You will be expected to be sexually attracted to trans women, and because self ID means any man who says he’s a woman is a woman and thus trans, you will have to learn to be gay.

     In fact, I'd go so far as to say that sounds a little like pandering to old school homophobic gay panic, trap stereotypes and fragile masculinity. I'm perfectly open to gender critical points of view and see the validity to them in many contexts, but there is a point when you begin to sound slightly ridiculous.

     This is one of those points. That's all I'm going to say on the matter because most debate on the topic is mostly futile here.
     • weka 2.5.1

       13 June 2022 at 9:15 pm

       I'm aware of the men who sleep with men and don't consider themselves gay. Also aware of the various situations where males are having sex of some kinds with other men. This isn't my point though. My point is about whether people have the right to define their own sexual orientation, and whether straight men realise that calling themselves straight (as in, they will only have sex with females) is transphobic.

       I'm also not saying that het men are vulnerable parties in the sexual ecosystem, I'm talking politics. There are lots of reasons why het men take stands against women's politics, I've been surprised but not really surprised about it on gc issues, the transphobia accusations seem relevant to this. But of course het men won't be targeted in the same way that lesbians and gay men are, because patriarchy, sexism, and AGP. This was discussed upthread.

       In fact, I'd go so far as to say that sounds a little like pandering to old school homophobic gay panic, trap stereotypes and fragile masculinity. I'm perfectly open to gender critical points of view and see the validity to them in many contexts, but there is a point when you begin to sound slightly ridiculous.

       Scratching my head at that. The point here isn't that straight men can't like girldick. It's that people are entitled to their own sexual orientation, including straight men (but, obviously, they get let off the hook).

       The left wing GC position is solidly that people can be how they are, be that straight, gay, GNC, trans, whatever. It's not homophobic to point out to straight men that being straight is now considered transphobic. It is homophobic to put political and personal pressure on gay people to have sex with people of the opposite sex. Is that ridiculous? Of course, many aspects of this debate are. If you think it's not happening, you are ill informed. Straight men aren't being targeted, yet, for the reasons already mentioned. I think you missed the pointedness if my comment.
       • Puckish Rogue 2.5.1.1

         14 June 2022 at 1:42 pm

         "I'm aware of the men who sleep with men and don't consider themselves gay."

         Let Ice T explain how it works :
   • I Feel Love 2.6

     14 June 2022 at 7:56 am

     Oh piss off. This is getting absurd. Really if my thinking was aligning to the likes of Matt Walsh I'd really be questioning that thinking.
     • weka 2.6.1

       14 June 2022 at 1:35 pm

       By that logic you're aligned with MRAs
     • weka 2.6.2

       14 June 2022 at 1:37 pm

       Absurd doesn't even come close to what is happening. Read this and weep if you have any kind of compassion beyond your ideology.

       https://twitter.com/garwhoungle/status/1536507544344330240
3. Shanreagh 3

   13 June 2022 at 9:19 am

   'Moaners gotta moan'.

   https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2022/06/covid-19-kiwi-traveller-says-he-was-denied-entry-from-australia-because-pre-departure-test-was-a-minute-early.html

   I must admit that going to the media about something that was, in the end, my fault would not be the first thing I would have thought of.

   Let us hope that his business in Australia did not include drawing up the engineering specs for a multistory building when accuracy is also important.

   It looks like the Moaning Minnie virus that accompanied Covid also has a long tail and staying power.
   • weka 3.1

     13 June 2022 at 10:21 am

     How is it his fault?

     There are two stories here. One is this,

     But many have come up against several technical issues. Newshub on Sunday revealed several stories from people who found the process far from simple; from struggles filling out forms, to spending hours trying to grasp the rules and misunderstandings over what was required to re-enter New Zealand.

     That needs looking at to see if it's common, or if Shub are exaggerating.

     Two is that when the guy approached customs about the one minute early test, this was also declined. That's madness. It's also $160/test, which is a lot of money for some people.
     • Bearded Git 3.1.1

       13 June 2022 at 10:55 am

       "Spending hours trying to grasp the rules…"…..yeah right.
       • Belladonna 3.1.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 11:11 am

         Given that Customs themselves admit there are issues and are making changes – I don't think you can dismiss the complaints in their entirety (quote from the NHub article linked above – my emphasis)

         a Customs spokesperson insists the process is "working well" for most travellers coming into New Zealand – although they admit the process has proven challenging for some, and are now making changes to ensure the system is more "user-friendly".

         The assumption (prevalent amount civil servants) that everyone is technologically literate (able to upload a picture of a negative test, for example) – is widespread, and has been a demonstrated barrier to service in many areas.

         And the fact that the help numbers don't connect (possibly overwhelmed, possibly only staffed during the working day – who knows) is another major issue.

         After trying it three times – each of which took around 20 minutes – Rutledge tried calling the help numbers on the page but none of them would connect.

         There's quite a short time-window between when you get results pre-departure, and when you have to check into your flight, with all the documentation complete. You really need 'real time' assistance available for when the online process falls over.
         • Bearded Git 3.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 12:46 pm

           Belladonna-I got a good grasp as to the requirements required for both people coming in from NZ/OZ (very few requirements) and people coming in from other countries in 6 minutes on the site below. (not "hours")

           https://www.customs.govt.nz/covid-19/personal/travelling-to-nz/#:~:text=Most%20travellers%20must%20have%20a,you%20arrive%20in%20New%20Zealand.

           I accept that the 48 hours for a PCR test could be a bit iffy-but these days they come back in 24 hours. (I have some experience here; coming back from Darwin a year ago was quite a hassle).

           But in any event the requirement now is only for a supervised RAT test which should be no problem at all.

           The privileged whingers are still whinging.
           • Belladonna 3.1.1.1.1.1

             13 June 2022 at 1:08 pm

             According to the article, the biggest issue isn't the test, it's the challenges uploading the results.

             Which, it's clear, Customs have acknowledged and committed to resolve.

             And, yes, it's 'easy' to find the requirements online if you have a straightforward situation – but the problem arises, when it's not – and the contact systems (to get in touch with a real person) don't work.

             And, really, declining a test result because it was 1 minute outside the time frame – is the sort of decision a computer makes, not a person…..

             Are there any complaints about the Customs procedures that you would be prepared to characterise as not whinging?
             • Bearded Git …

               13 June 2022 at 2:18 pm

               I think I have got so pissed off with the Covid era oh-so-entitled whingers and the way the Herald and even RNZ have reported them so favourably and without balance (remembering here that the whingers form a tiny tiny percentage of the people coming to NZ) that I've got little tolerance for any whinging at this stage.
               • Grantoc …

                 13 June 2022 at 4:41 pm

                 That's quite a whinge BG
               • Shanreagh …

                 13 June 2022 at 7:39 pm

                 Let me join you in this BG.

                 I am only slightly taking the mickey when I have said since 2020 that coming in with Covid was the Moaning Minnie Virus where people seem to be moaning because they have a greater possibility of NOT dying of Covid because of the actions of Govt.

                 We now know, if we did not know it before, that a great proportion of Govt bashing is actually misogyny against the PM both as proxy and personally.
                 • Bearded Git …

                   13 June 2022 at 10:01 pm

                   Excellent
             • Shanreagh …

               13 June 2022 at 7:33 pm

               My point is not so much about the whinging but the automatic response of taking it to the media.

               I really am not interested in the moans of a person being taken up by the media as if it is newsworthy rather than the sham beating up of the Govt/Ministers that it really is. The issue is minor in the scheme of things. as if you were really hard-up you just would not be travelling around NZ let alone to Australia.

               As BG says

               The privileged whingers are still whinging.
               • Belladonna …

                 13 June 2022 at 7:44 pm

                 Nah. The truly privileged have PAs, assistants and aides, to sort all of this stuff out for them. Catch them wasting an hour of their lives trying to upload a photo to a Customs website. Not likley. They have 'people' to do all of that for them…
                 • In Vino …

                   13 June 2022 at 8:21 pm

                   Let us not forget that the media are either run privately, or are 'state-owned enterprises' which means they get run by people from the bloody marketing industry, etc.. Effectively the same. National Radio now runs far more advertising of its own programmes than it used to do because they now do a tiny new news-headline-break on the half-hour at half-past, and follow it with and ad for their own programmes about which we already know, and that ad often lasts as long as the headline-news break did.

                   (Hint to RNZ – WE DON’T NEED THIS!!)

                   Our media are biased towards right-wing private enterprise dogma., and will always give big publicity to such whinging about Covid restrictions, 3 Waters, etc – whatever, whether justified or not.

                   Our news media are not unbiased, and we cannot trust them.
                   • Belladonna …

                     13 June 2022 at 8:44 pm

                     Our news media are not unbiased, and we cannot trust them.

                     Which makes it somewhat ironic when the right complain that the media are bought and paid for through the PI Journalism Fund.

                     Where should we get our news? From Facebook?
                   • Bearded Git …

                     13 June 2022 at 10:04 pm

                     In Vino…I too hate the new RNZ half hour newsbreak with very irritating programme ad attached. Wonder who thought that crap idea up.
       • weka 3.1.1.2

         13 June 2022 at 11:19 am

         Am curious why you are sceptical. WINZ is the same, IRD not quite as bad, but still not always easy. Why would customs be any different?
4. Historian Pete 4

   13 June 2022 at 10:53 am

   Context is everything.To understand the Ukraine invasion we need to examine the reasons for the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. Then we were 2 seconds to midnight on the Doomsday clock. I was 16 ,and not surprisingly I took a close interest in events. The Western newspapers told us that Russia , with no provocation , was sending nuclear missiles to be erected in Communist Cuba ,ninety miles from the United States coast. This act was regarded as a existential threat , and the U.S threatened Russia with a nuclear attack if it did not desist. I watched with horror as the Russian ships approached Cuba with their nuclear missiles onboard . Fortunately the U.S. had a sane leader in John Kennedy, who negotiated with the Russian leader [ Khruschev] and Mutually Assured Destruction was avoided.! However, four years later I learned that that there had been provocation from the U.S. in that they had previously erected nuclear missiles in Turkey, aimed at Russia. ! There had been an agreement struck that the U.S would remove its missiles from Turkey, and Russia would turn around its ships. The U.S had lied to the world about the existence of the missiles in Turkey. Just as they have lied about the Coup De'tat they arranged in Ukraine in 2014 ,overthrowing a democratically elected government.That was the next event that has brought us back to Cuban Missile Crisis Mark 2. What would happen if Russia erected nuclear missiles in Cuba , Mexico, or Venezuela like the U.S. is doing around the borders of Russia??? I have already lived through an event that absolutely threatened to destroy all life on earth. I do not particularly want to do it all again. Russia regards itself to be under a existential threat. They have said so repeatedly. Unless they get security guarantees they will progress things to the point of a nuclear exchange. There is no John Kennedy with his finger on the nuclear trigger in the U.S. this time around!!!

   [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
   

   [lprent: While probably interesting, accurate, and badly formatted about an event that happened soon after I was born. It really doesn’t address anything in the post. Essentially you appear to be (reading between the lines) arguing that if a government has nuclear weapons then it should be able to do whatever they want.

   However you haven’t presented any reasoning why this should be the case. Which means that you aren’t arguing to the post. You are just waffling and appear to be unable to formulate any points worth debating in the context of the post.

   OpenMike is the place for post irrelevant ranting. Please read the policy. ]
5. Ad 5

   13 June 2022 at 12:58 pm

   Stuff is reporting that Ardern will announce a 'minor' Cabinet reshuffle at 3pm.

   What's the bet it's about Poto Williams and Nanaia Mahuta.

   Ideally a few more support-posts around them like Ardern did for Housing.
   • Poission 5.1

     13 June 2022 at 1:04 pm

     Its one already announced as a mid year reshuffle,so not a responsive act to opposition noise.
     • Belladonna 5.1.1

       13 June 2022 at 1:36 pm

       Agree it's already announced/expected.

       Mid-term cabinet re-shuffles are more common than not. However, it may well be that Ardern is not quite as in control of the timing, as she would like to be. She will, no doubt be well-aware of the downwards tend of the polls, and Labour do (I believe) a lot of polling of specific issues – so will be aware which Ministers are not being *perceived* as performing well.

       Some interesting speculation here, over which MPs are likely to retire at the next election (so may be moving sideways to allow others to gain experience)

       https://www.newsroom.co.nz/labour-reshuffle-as-pressure-goes-on-police-minister

       I'm delighted to see two of my 'favourites' (Kiri Allan and Kieran McAnulty- and ones I tipped as future leadership potential, last week) – to be touted as potentially able to move into the police role. Regardless of whether or not Williams is doing a good job, she is looking increasingly besieged in the job, and doesn't appear to be dealing well with the media.

       I do hope that Ardern brings on new leadership, rather than relying on the increasingly overburdened Hipkins and Woods.

       Interestingly (perhaps this is a Wellington issue – so hadn't impinged on my radar) – Paul Eagle is tipped to resign in order to take the mayoralty. He's in Rongotai – Annette King's old seat – so absolutely a safe Labour by-election. I would hope that Szabo and Ardern, are looking towards the future for the selection. Eagle hasn't exactly shone, and you want something more than a solid backbencher in such a safe seat.
       • Poission 5.1.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 2:04 pm

         Eagle is another failure,a head nodder.Fitzsimons who is not seeking council reelection is picked to be the candidate.She represented wellington south and is disliked by many labour stalwarts in Island bay,over a number of issues and especially the IB cycleway which pissed a whole community off,and grandstanding with the vanity projects that help rape the ratepayers pockets.Another lawyer.
         • Shanreagh 5.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 7:53 pm

           Yes Fleur Fitzsimons is not everyone's cup of tea. She & the mayor got it wrong in my view in supporting the views of those who wanted to deny women the ability to discuss the implications for bio women of the BDM amendment bill/now act. It did not seem to matter to either that the Courts had thrown out the denial of the booking for a space. So not an outstanding person to go to Parliament based on her Council work. Yet Paul Eagle was a very good councillor who, it must be said, has not shone as an MP.

           So it is odd how it turns out.

           The person who has been working solidly away in Rongotai is Laurie Foon from the Green Party. She would make a good MP. Far better than the rather divisive Fleur Fitzsimons.
       • James Thrace 5.1.1.2

         13 June 2022 at 3:32 pm

         Glad to see people are coming around to my (nearly) 2 year old view of Kiri and Kieran.

         https://thestandard.org.nz/what-should-labour-do-in-the-next-three-years/#comment-1762086
         • Belladonna 5.1.1.2.1

           13 June 2022 at 5:22 pm

           Certainly agree with you. Both have done very well over the term of this parliament – and ones to watch for the future.

           Part of problem with die-hard Labour supporters, who defend every minister to the death – is that it becomes very difficult to discuss, meaningfully, which ministers are actually stars (combination of competence, public relations and media smarts).
       • Ad 5.1.1.3

         13 June 2022 at 5:24 pm

         That was more extensive than 'minor'.

         On the ups and downs of it:

         – Hipkins into Police is rewarding successful delivery in COVID with stronger pure political management into Law and Order media which he excels at. Hipkins is the purest of our Pure Politicians and that's what's needed right now.

         – Not choosing Nash for Police is a pretty important signal to Nash that he's peaked.

         – Williams into Conservation is a useful move since there are so many deep Maori partnerships in National Parks now. Ardern doesn't always get it right and this is a better portfolio fit. Also she has a strong Disability background already.

         – Fa'afoi leaving but delivering the merged RNZ-TVNZ to Jackson is a bit of a dream job for Jackson as a broadcasting specialist. What a gift: Don't fuck it up Jackson.

         – Wood getting Immigration and keeping Transport and Workplace is a big Rising Star signal that he has excellent risk aerials and commands his briefs.

         – Kiri Allen getting Associate Finance not Deb Russell is a bit of s signal Russell has peaked. Russell should have got Revenue long ago: Parker is no good at it.

         – Radhakrishnan into Cabinet is a really important community signal of seniority that will not be lost.

         – Dr Verrall taking Research Science and Innovation is not a huge step when surely all hands on deck are needed in Health for Little in the ginormous restructure.

         – Great to see Mahuta get some help in Foreign Affairs so she can concentrate more delivering 3 Waters which is a core Labour legacy at this point.

         – Dr Woods has big calls to make on Energy coming up, so I hope taking more Construction portfolio work doesn't see her lose a step elsewhere.

         – Presumably Mallard will get the EU Ambassador role coming up.

         Good on Ardern for shuffling a but more than otherwise. It was needed in the circumstances.
         • alwyn 5.1.1.3.1

           13 June 2022 at 6:04 pm

           "Presumably Mallard will get the EU Ambassador role coming up".

           I think he would be rather better as our Ambassador in Belarus.
         • Belladonna 5.1.1.3.2

           13 June 2022 at 6:16 pm

           Hmm. I don't think it really is more extensive than 'minor'. Most of it is triggered by Faaroi leaving, and Williams being demoted; the consequent promotions into their vacant portfolios, and the subsequent shuffling of the minor roles that those people are vacating (in order to not be totally overwhelmed).

           You're outlining many of the issues which have *not* been addressed, in this shuffle.

           Ardern has said there will be another shuffle in (I think) January – though that's really too late to make any difference to the legislative programme.

           I agree that Nash and Russell should be reading the writing on the wall. Though it can't really be news for either – they've been out of favour for some time.
         • Belladonna 5.1.1.3.3

           13 June 2022 at 7:01 pm

           Great to see Mahuta get some help in Foreign Affairs so she can concentrate more delivering 3 Waters which is a core Labour legacy at this point.

           I must have missed this. Has someone been appointed into an associate Foreign Affairs role?
   • Anne 5.2

     13 June 2022 at 3:01 pm

     Its been triggered by Kris Faafoi who is stepping down and out of politics. We'll know in a few minutes.
   • Robert Guyton 5.3

     13 June 2022 at 7:42 pm

     "What's the bet it's about Poto Williams and Nanaia Mahuta."

     Nanaia? Did I miss something?
6. Corey Humm 6

   13 June 2022 at 1:16 pm

   Cabinet reshuffle today. Finally!!! This is the governments chance for a reset.

   If Labour wants a shot at winning 2023 or atleast of having an experienced caucus in opposition it needs to give the 2017 and 2020 class of fresh blood cabinet positions.

   I'd personally like to see:

   I'd give

   Duncan Webb Justice.

   Mcnaulty Agriculture.

   Nash Police. This is a must.

   Kiri Allen regional development.

   I'd like Michael Wood to get a promotion but he's performing very well in that portfolio.

   Poto Williams Civil defence (she's an mp from Christchurch East, who better for earthquake preparedness)

   Ardern foreign affairs (Kirk, Lange and for a time Clark held this portfolio as Pm and tbh Ardern shines while overseas and the more she's overseas not dealing with grumpy NZ media the better she gets in rooms no other NZ pm could dream of,she's our best rep on the world stage )

   I'd also shake up education, housing, defence.

   Mallard Must Go!!

   Id like to see people like Jo Luxon, Marja Lubeck, Ginny Anderson, Tracy McKellen, Shan Halbert Ibrahim Omer, Jamie Strange Rachel Boyak, Steph Lewis Sarah Pallet getting positions, if not cabinet positions ministers out of cabinet or junior minister positions. A lot of these people are in extremely unsafe seats so it could be a risk but more public exposure could help. I mean c'mon, Pallet beat Brownlee in ILAM.

   Get David Parker off the Am show, he's not particularly liked by labour members let alone the public. Get Kiri Allen or Grant Robertson on that show.

   Keep Debra Russell, Labours version of Maureen Pugh away from Cabinet.

   Its very much time for the new blood to take over, currently we have the front bench from labours time in opposition in cabinet, the same backstabbing, unpopular lot who were utterly useless in opposition are unpopular and quite useless in cabinet.

   This is labours chance to reset the govt and get a whole bunch of new blood experience.

   Also just quietly, for a "Labour party" , there's not many mps in their list that appeal to working class people, they all look like robots with no sense of humour I hope the next labour list is as diverse in class, professions as it is diversity in gender sexuality and ethnicity, we need more real people in politics not more lawyers and uni lecturers who demand to be called Dr.

   Beer not wine.

   Rock not opera.
   • Belladonna 6.1

     13 June 2022 at 1:46 pm

     I'd like to see Kiri Allen take the Police portfolio. I think she's absolutely got the PR skills to front with the media, and the no-bullshit approach to problem-solving, that's needed.
     She's also (I get the impression) a lot more popular inside the Labour party than Nash is – so more likely to be able to 'sell' some of the changes which need to happen.

     I agree that many of the MPs you list are in very unsafe seats – and I suspect that Szabo and Ardern will be weighing up who's likely to be around after 2023.

     The 'robot' description is absolutely true. My local MP is one of the list above – and just about every utterance on social media (a highly important communication platform) is Labour-party-script – literally cut-and-pasted from the policy website or a media release.

     Add immigration to your list. Faafoi is looking increasingly uninterested in his portfolios. It seems fairly firmly established that he actually wanted to resign in 2020 – and was persuaded to stay on. I think he’s likely to announce his retirement. And those ministerial portfolios are an ideal environment to break in some new talent.

     Mallard won’t resign from being Speaker. And, I think it’s unlikely that Ardern would push him out. Best you can hope for is that he retires at the next election (which has, I think, been fairly strongly signalled). Or that a plum High-Commissioner job suddenly becomes vacant (though diplomacy isn’t exactly his strong suit)
     • Craig H 6.1.1

       13 June 2022 at 4:06 pm

       Turns out Mallard will be retiring as Speaker.
       • Belladonna 6.1.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 5:07 pm

         Indeed. I got that one wrong. But got right that he's being parachuted into a diplomatic post in Europe.
         Not uncommon for ex-speakers – though usually after they actually retire from politics.
         • pat 6.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 6:22 pm

           I imagine there is a number of career diplomats who wonder why they bothered.
   • Peter 6.2

     13 June 2022 at 1:46 pm

     If they had God in every Cabinet seat would it make a difference when the agenda in front of them says 'Three Waters,' and 'He Puapua' ? And the newspapers chucked on the table say 'shootings, gangs, poverty, housing, mental health and health system?'

     Oh, and Willie Jackson uses the word 'co-governance.'

     Is it about Lawyers, uni lecturers who demand to be called Dr., beer rather than wine and rock not opera?
   • Puckish Rogue 6.3

     13 June 2022 at 2:07 pm

     Kelvin Davis has to go, the guy is completely useless as Corrections Minister.
     • Blade 6.3.1

       13 June 2022 at 3:43 pm

       Can't be done, PR. Look at the new reshuffle. Kevin has special status.

       • Kiri Allan promoted to Justice
       • Chris Hipkins replaces Poto Williams as Minister of Police
       • Willie Jackson picks up the broadcasting portfolio
       • Adrian Rurawhe has been nominated as Speaker

       https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300612069/postcabinet-live-jacinda-ardern-announces-that-trevor-mallard-kris-faafoi-are-leaving-parliament
       • Puckish Rogue 6.3.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 5:38 pm

         Well shit…
         • Blade 6.3.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 5:50 pm

           Always remember: '' Socialists are like rust, they never sleep.''
           • Muttonbird 6.3.1.1.1.1

             13 June 2022 at 6:00 pm

             Where is this quote from, Blade?
             • alwyn …

               13 June 2022 at 6:12 pm

               That was most notably used in New Zealand in David Lange's description of Roger Douglas. It might not have been original but it was both funny and appropriate.

               "He's like rust, he never sleeps".
               • Muttonbird …

                 13 June 2022 at 6:22 pm

                 I'm confused. Roger Douglas was in no way a socialist.

                 Typical of you Tories. Muddled thinking and poor recall.
                 • Blade …

                   13 June 2022 at 6:29 pm

                   He was a reformed socialist. He saw the light. And that light wasn't coming from a miners helmet…but rather from the blue light district of economics.
                   • Stuart Munro …

                     13 June 2022 at 10:15 pm

                     He was a Trojan horse – pretended to be Left to destroy the Labour party – an archetypal dirty trickster. The masses are not to be allowed to vote in their interests, so the Right is constantly in need of Judas goats. Your idol Hosking is one of them.
                 • alwyn …

                   14 June 2022 at 9:23 am

                   Muttonbird says "I'm confused".

                   Well yes. I had noticed that about you. You exhibit that when you make remarks like "Typical of you Tories". I am certainly not a Tory. I am a Liberal in the original meaning of the word.
             • Blade …

               13 June 2022 at 6:22 pm

               I made it up myself as far as I know.

               Robbo Hood is another original.

               Someone told me I was the first to use the moniker 'Cindy.'' I don't if that's true, but I was definitely using it well before this dated link.

               https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/122658284/shes-not-a-doll-so-dont-call-the-prime-minister-cindy
               • Muttonbird …

                 13 June 2022 at 6:31 pm

                 If it's your own phrase, why put it in quote marks?

                 Of course you have appropriated the name of the 1979 album by Neil Young and Crazy Horse, Rust Never Sleeps.

                 I don't know whether you have done this intentionally or because you are simply not very bright, but it is dishonest either way.
                 • Robert Guyton …

                   13 June 2022 at 6:37 pm

                   "Dimbo" – I said it first!
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2022 at 6:50 pm

                     "Dimbo'' From the primordial swamp of limited creativity.

                     Robbo Hood – true genius.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     13 June 2022 at 7:08 pm

                     "From the primordial swamp of limited creativity."

                     Ha ha ha ha!

                     Isn't the primordial swamp the epitome of creativity – the soup from which we all emerged, the very crucible of creativity?

                     Not feeling ya, Blade.
                 • Blade …

                   13 June 2022 at 6:46 pm

                   ''If it's your own phrase, why put it in quote marks?''

                   I thought it might look better.

                   ''Of course you have appropriated the name of the 1979 album by Neil Young and Crazy Horse, Rust Never Sleeps.''

                   No, I haven't. As far as I knew it was orginal. Obviously I may have picked the phrase up subconsciously. And I notice the word 'socialist' is missing from the name so I may still have an original use of the name.

                   This sometimes happens with disputes over who originally wrote a song. There are many chord progressions in music that can produce similar results.
                   • Mac1 …

                     13 June 2022 at 7:04 pm

                     There are many good quotes citing rust. Here's a cautionary one for Blade.

                     "It is not work that kills men: it is worry. Worry is rust upon the blade." Henry Ward Beecher.

                     All joking and point-scoring aside, that's a powerful statement. How much political and social action, right or wrong, stems from worry, anxiety and its attendant fear?
                   • Muttonbird …

                     13 June 2022 at 7:16 pm

                     You seriously expect readers of this forum to believe you came up with the phrase, 'socialists are like rust, they never sleep' on your own without any help from Neil Young and Crazy Horse and the subsequent years of common, celebrated, vernacular use of that term?

                     You'd have to be a stupid idiot to have never heard the phrase, "Rust Never Sleeps" before, and a real shifty character to believe you in fact thought it up all on your own.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     13 June 2022 at 7:23 pm

                     But butter, Muttonbird, wouldn't … you know.. that phrase that, probably, most likely, Blade coined.
                     Melt.
                     In there.
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2022 at 7:24 pm

                     ''All joking and point-scoring aside, that's a powerful statement. How much political and social action, right or wrong, stems from worry, anxiety and its attendant fear?''

                     More than a few, unfortunately.

                     I would also add that old adage: ''Hard work never killed anyone.''

                     Bullshit, it kills millions globally each year.
                   • Belladonna …

                     13 June 2022 at 7:39 pm

                     Looks as though Neil Young and Crazy Horse also appropriated the phrase — from the slogan of a US anti-rust paint brand – Rust-Oleum

                     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust-Oleum

                     There aint nothing new under the Sun….
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2022 at 7:51 pm

                     Lol… you are as potent as you name, Belladonna.

                     One Muttonbird in the pot. Hard to cook and smelly. But the feast is delicious.
7. Jimmy 7

   13 June 2022 at 3:08 pm

   Poto is gone!!!!!
   • Blade 7.1

     13 June 2022 at 3:25 pm

     Excellent. One down. Let's hope the Police Commissioner can draw a not particularly long bow and ask himself would the leadership of his frontline staff and the people of New Zealand move him on if he was in cabinet?

     Chris Hipkins unfortunately is just a mechanic who fixes things for Labour. I doubt he has any passion for his new police portfolio. Time will tell.

     David Parker is a strange bird. When I look into his eyes, I see a fanatic. I know he can be a vicious operator… but I've never been able to make him out. Ian Wishart dealt to him a number of years back.

     Man, Labour's internal polling must be dynamite.
     • Mac1 7.1.1

       13 June 2022 at 3:49 pm

       "internal polling must be dynamite."

       Good try to find a negative reason for the reshuffle but it has been flagged for some time and was brought about by resignations of Faafoi and Mallard. The PM also announced that a larger reshuffle will take place in the new year.
       • Blade 7.1.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 3:55 pm

         If you believe it's all about departing Labour MPs then I have a 3G Sim Card you can have for free.

         This from Belladonna’s post above:

         ”Mid-term cabinet re-shuffles are more common than not. However, it may well be that Ardern is not quite as in control of the timing as she would like to be. She will, no doubt be well-aware of the downwards trend of the polls, and Labour do (I believe) a lot of polling of specific issues – so will be aware which Ministers are not being perceived as performing well.”
         • alwyn 7.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 4:09 pm

           "If you believe it's all about departing Labour MPs".

           If he believes that I would think you could do a lot better than give him a 3G sim card. Anyone who could believe that would probably pay you a couple of hundred bucks for a 2G card.
           • Mac1 7.1.1.1.1.1

             13 June 2022 at 4:46 pm

             Nah, aren't they the ones with electro-magnetic properties requiring tin foil hats and deep state implants run by the Masonic order and the Vatican? I'm writing this from my bunker deep under the Southern Alps with my Italian Alpine Special Forces group. That humming you can hear you think is tinnitus, but's it's not……
           • Blade 7.1.1.1.1.2

             13 June 2022 at 4:46 pm

             I always wondered why I never graduated from driving a Datsun.
         • Mac1 7.1.1.1.2

           13 June 2022 at 4:13 pm

           It's conjecture, Blade, yours, mine, and Belladonna's. However, I have this on my side. The headline reads, "Labour reshuffle prompted by departure of Faafoi, Mallard".

           The sub-heading says "Labour’s long-awaited reshuffle has been triggered today by the departure of senior Cabinet Minister Kris Faafoi and Speaker Trevor Mallard

           Today's Cabinet reshuffle has been sparked by the departures of Kris Faafoi and Trevor Mallard."

           In addition, note the words 'long awaited' which rather denies your polling pressure argument.

           https://www.newsroom.co.nz/labour-reshuffle-as-pressure-goes-on-police-minister
           • Blade 7.1.1.1.2.1

             13 June 2022 at 4:35 pm

             Fair comment, Mac. It is conjecture on my part. But have you considered this:

             Labour's poor internal polling can be denied as an excuse for a reshuffle because Labour had a long-awaited reshuffle in the pipeline. That in itself could have been cunning advanced planning?

             And talking of reshuffles, this one doesn't seem minor to me, it's seems quite substantial.

             Remember John Tamihere's notorious interview a few years back? The front-bums interview? He said something like this about Labour's sisterhood if I remember correctly:

             ''While the rest of us are taking our kids to Saturday sports events, they are at the cafe scheming. That's all they do.''
             • Mac1 …

               13 June 2022 at 4:55 pm

               No, I've not considered them, and having read them am not doing so in the future.

               There's conjecture, there's 'reckons' and then there's plain tomfoolery.

               Quoting Tamihere as a credible backup to your ah, assertions, does not help………
               • Blade …

                 13 June 2022 at 5:21 pm

                 ''Quoting Tamihere as a credible backup to your ah, assertions, does not help………''

                 People sometimes become so focused on the immediate issue they fail to take in a global picture surrounding that issue. I like to sniff around the perimeter. Sometimes it's a wasted effort, more often than not you find a gem or a new perspective. For example, the Tamihere quote about the sisterhood and their scheming. Well, it seems the scheming is still going on, but it's the Maori caucus at the cafe now. And they can see the storm that's coming – the PM may have to move on Nanaia Mahuta and Kelvin Davis at the next reshuffle. Both are costing Labour votes. But any such move will be met with utu from the Maori Caucus.

                 Interesting times ahead, eh, Mac1?!
                 • Robert Guyton …

                   13 June 2022 at 5:44 pm

                   "I like to sniff around the perimeter. Sometimes it's a wasted effort, more often than not you find a gem …"

                   People fossick for gems, sniff for …rotten stuff.

                   Just sayin'
                   • Blade …

                     13 June 2022 at 6:09 pm

                     You still here, Robert. Go spread some salt.
                   • Robert Guyton …

                     13 June 2022 at 6:16 pm

                     I take your advice, Blade, with a grain.
                 • Mac1 …

                   13 June 2022 at 5:49 pm

                   That old curse, Blade! Plenty of opportunity to say, "Back in my day" and "I told you it wouldn't work".

                   I told my brother today that was going on my headstone…….

                   As for your punditry on the Māori caucus, he whakatauki mou. "Mā te wahine, mā te whenua, ka ngaro te tangata."
           • Belladonna 7.1.1.1.2.2

             13 June 2022 at 5:38 pm

             Oh, I absolutely agree it's all about 'reckons' (I'm not claiming either insider knowledge, or psychic powers!)

             And, it is a fairly minor re-shuffle – almost all of the movements have been as the result of Faafoi moving aside (it's not clear when he actually plans to leave parliament – but as a List MP won't trigger a bye-election), and Poto Williams being demoted (she may still be a minister, but it's not a front line portfolio).

             The rest of the changes are the fallout from those two.

             Mallard leaving is an interesting thing to announce as part of a cabinet re-shuffle. As Speaker, he's not part of the cabinet, and it wouldn't be usual for an announcement for a change to this role to be bundled up with shifting Ministerial portfolios. It's also unusual (I think) for there not to be a specific diplomatic job referenced (certainly both Jonathan Hunt & Lockwood Smith resigned specifically to take up the role of High Commissioner in London)
     • Craig H 7.1.2

       13 June 2022 at 4:04 pm

       Hipkins has a criminology degree, he might actually like it. Jan Tinetti, a former school principal and teacher, takes on the operational part of the Education portfolio – handy set of knowledge to have in the wings.
       • Blade 7.1.2.1

         13 June 2022 at 4:10 pm

         If they can make a difference, Graig, I say all power to them. I don't care who the Minster of Police is or from what party. If he/she can stop innocent people getting hurt, they will have my support.
         • AB 7.1.2.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 6:38 pm

           “If he/she can stop innocent people getting hurt, they will have my support”.

           Totally – though you do realise that taking that sentiment at face value would also, say, be a reason for criminalising speculation in residential property which hurts sh*tloads of innocent people by turbocharging asset price inflation and rent rises?

           Or are you opposed only to some types of harm – such as those you might potentially suffer rather than those you might potentially inflict?
           • In Vino 7.1.2.1.1.1

             13 June 2022 at 8:41 pm

             Very good point AB. Will Blade suddenly emerge as the hero of the poor, underpaid people who try to hold down several low-paid jobs, but still struggle to pay their mercilessly high and raised rents?

             I somehow doubt it,
             • Blade …

               13 June 2022 at 9:19 pm

               You mean like this guy who at one stage I believe held 7 jobs…and has donated money to Labour.

               Listen to the reporter. You whine like her:
               • In Vino …

                 15 June 2022 at 12:55 am

                 Irrelevant, immaterial and incompetent. Not very sharp either.
           • Blade 7.1.2.1.1.2

             13 June 2022 at 9:12 pm

             ''Be a reason for criminalising speculation in residential property which hurts sh*tloads of innocent people by turbocharging asset price inflation and rent rises?''

             Don't throw that socialist crap at me. You save that for your buddies who have the same processing chip as you.

             Or are you opposed only to some types of harm – such as those you might potentially suffer rather than those you might potentially inflict?

             No, I'm opposed to people who break laws on the statute books. Not laws your ideology believes are laws or should be laws.

             And I'm for victims not criminals. Something I doubt rarely crosses your mind unless there is some political gain.

             One down, one to go.
   • Mac1 7.2

     13 June 2022 at 3:46 pm

     More accurate to say Minister Poto Williams remains as a cabinet minister with Customs, according to the Herald. Minister Chris Hipkins picks up the Police role.
     • Jimmy 7.2.1

       13 June 2022 at 3:59 pm

       Do you work for the Labour spin team?
       • Mac1 7.2.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 4:02 pm

         No, it's not accurate to say she has gone. She is still a cabinet minister.
         • Jimmy 7.2.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 4:30 pm

           I should have been more specific for you……..she is gone as police minister.
           • In Vino 7.2.1.1.1.1

             13 June 2022 at 8:44 pm

             I don't think Mac1 is totally surprised by your superfluous comment, Jimmy. He obviously knew it already.
         • Belladonna 7.2.1.1.2

           13 June 2022 at 5:44 pm

           But a very significant and substantial demotion.
           She wasn't shifted sideways into one of the significant ministerial roles vacated by Faafoi, but definitely down a tier into Conservation and Disability issues (not arguing they aren't important – but not first-raked ministerial portfolios)

           https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/poto-williams-loses-police-portfolio-mallard-faafoi-depart
           • Sacha 7.2.1.1.2.1

             13 June 2022 at 8:24 pm

             That the Disability portfolio is the nearest alternative to being sacked speaks volumes. Imagine the hearing she will get in Cabinet on our behalf?
8. Professor Longhair 8

   13 June 2022 at 4:01 pm

   Nobody with a grain of sense accepts the word of Muhammad Idrees Ahmad

   The good-hearted but woefully ill-informed "Jenny How to Get There" recently commended, with apparent sincerity, one of the most bloody-minded and unhinged proponents of chaos and bloodshed in the Middle East. She did that in the course of a wild, fact-free attempt to traduce one of the most outstanding journalists in America.

   https://thestandard.org.nz/justice-for-shaireen/#comment-1889305

   Jenny called Idrees Ahmad a "real professor", as if being a "Lecturer in Digital Journalism" at a second-rate university bestowed credibility on that jihadist.

   I invite Standard readers to look at the facts about this "real professor" and then judge for themselves, rather than accepting the word of someone who has been wrong too often.

   Idrees Ahmad is a fanatical regime change troll who has viciously maligned and lied about anti-war journalists, Idrees Ahmad defended the Trump administration’s bombing of Syria’s Shayrat airbase in April. Before that, Idrees Ahmad was one of the leading cheerleaders for NATO-led regime change in Libya, which destroyed the oil-rich North African country and plunged it into chaos. A contributing editor at the Los Angeles Review of Books, Ahmad phoned AlterNet senior editor Max Blumenthal to threaten him about the planned publication of a two-part exposé of the Syrian rebel-tied White Helmets organization.

   https://thegrayzone.com/2017/08/17/regime-change-syria-trump-alt-left/
   • weka 8.1

     14 June 2022 at 12:50 pm

     hard to see from that comment why we should believe one over the other.
     • Professor Longhair 8.1.1

       14 June 2022 at 1:58 pm

       One is an internationally renowned journalist, respected all over the world, and hated and feared by the political establishment and its media mouthpieces. The other fellow rejoices in the splendid title of "Lecturer in Digital Journalism" at Stirling University, and has no academic or journalistic credentials whatsoever.

       The difference is stark.
   • Jenny how to get there 8.2

     27 June 2022 at 12:07 pm

     A fact free link, that doesn't dare address any of the indisputable evidence put up by the Left exposing the Assad regime, and their Russian ally, as being engaged in war crimes, genocide and mass murder of civilians in Syria.
     The same tactics we see being revisited by the Putin regime in their bloody invasion of Ukraine. A bloody invasion that you support.
     You may dispute Idrees Ahmad qualifications as a ‘real professor’ compared to your own phoney self title. But one thing you can’t dispute is that Idrees Ahmad is a real Syrian Left activist.

     Professor Longhair, you accuse me of being wrong to often.

     Unfortunately I have been right about the atrocities commited by the Putin regime and the Assad regime more often than I would like.

     Just to be clear, Professor Longhair. The Putin regime is actively recruiting Syrian mercenaries to continue the same sort of the indisputable proven war crimes they commit against the Syrian people, against the Ukraine population.

     https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/27/massacre-in-tadamon-how-two-academics-hunted-down-a-syrian-war-criminal
9. Robert Guyton 9

   13 June 2022 at 4:13 pm

   Where's Chris T? They made a confident prediction here recently…
   5 June 2022 at 6:18 pm
   • weka 9.1

     13 June 2022 at 4:50 pm

     link?
     • Robert Guyton 9.1.1

       13 June 2022 at 5:08 pm

       I did try 🙂
       • Drowsy M. Kram 9.1.1.1

         13 June 2022 at 6:02 pm

         Robert, imho your comment that provoked Chris T's bullish bet was priceless.

         You would indeed, "imagine" but your "imagine" has the weight of, say, Luxon's hair.

         Took me a few seconds to correctly assign Chris T's two proposed labels ("slow" and "amazingly brilliant") to he and thee – CT might need more time.
         • Robert Guyton 9.1.1.1.1

           13 June 2022 at 6:20 pm

           More time, more rope.

           Thanks for your generous parsing.
           • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

             13 June 2022 at 6:32 pm

             he's on a ban. Back on Thurs I think.
             • Robert Guyton …

               13 June 2022 at 6:39 pm

               I'm a patient sort of guy. His mea culpa will be all the sweeter for the passage of time 🙂
   • Professor Longhair 9.2

     14 June 2022 at 1:59 pm

     "They" made a confident prediction? How many Chris Ts are there?
10. Jimmy 10

    13 June 2022 at 4:48 pm

    It is a shame about Kris Faafoi leaving as I always thought he had a good future, but his heart clearly wasn't in it this last year and sounds like he really wanted to leave 18 months ago according to Jacinda's announcement.
    • Muttonbird 10.1

      13 June 2022 at 4:57 pm

      For some strange reason Kris Faafoi was once a favourite of the rabid right. It was when he was doing small stuff like car recalls.

      When Faafoi became minister of immigration they changed their tune, didn't they? No more cheap, brown, foreign labour for the rich pricks to exploit.
      • Belladonna 10.1.1

        13 June 2022 at 5:15 pm

        Does anyone, really, think that Faafoi has been an outstanding success in any of his ministerial roles?
        • Muttonbird 10.1.1.1

          13 June 2022 at 5:26 pm

          Name an 'outstandingly successful' immigration minister.

          Name a minister of immigration of note.

          Name any immigration minister at all.

          Without looking it up.
          • Belladonna 10.1.1.1.1

            13 June 2022 at 6:02 pm

            Also Minister of Justice and of Broadcasting (covering the highly contentious merger of Radio and TV).

            While it may be difficult to recall successful Ministers of Immigration, Labour has had 2 lemons in a row: Ian Lees-Galloway and Kris Faafoi. It's to be hoped that Michael Wood will be a safe pair of hands.

            Faafoi sat on his hands, and allowed his Immigration ministry to do zip, during the whole of 2020 and most of 2021. There was no reason not to continue to process documentation for immigrants already in NZ – and he created vast uncertainty for many people, resulting in sorely needed staff actually leaving the country, as they couldn't get residency confirmed. He seemed incapable of directing his ministry to co-ordinate effectively with border security in getting critical personnel (doctors, nurses, vets, etc.) in to NZ.

            It looked like bureaucratic capture of a Minister who basically just wasn't interested.

            In terms of Justice, the previous two incumbents (Andrew Little and Amy Adams) were streets ahead of Faafoi.

            Broadcasting, is often a 'nothing' ministry – unless there's some scandal brewing…. But Labour went into government with a plan to merge radio and TV – so it is currently a 'hot' portfolio, needing a Minister across the detail. This one should have been a gift to Faafoi, with his background in journalism. But, once again, he wasn't able to answer (or apparently even anticipate) the questions that the keenly interested journalists had (and continue to have) about the new structure.

            While he's leaving to spend more time with his kids (and that's a really good reason) – it seems inescapable that he tried politics, and found that he doesn't actually enjoy the big picture policy side of things. That's not a disaster. It's something that you learn about yourself by doing. But it's also not something to be camouflaged, by pretending that there wasn't a performance issue.
        • Muttonbird 10.1.1.2

          13 June 2022 at 5:46 pm

          I had a look for you. In reverse order:

          Ian Lees-Galoway – Shagged his assistant on tour, got fired, career over.

          Michael Woodlouse – He of the phantom homeless person while he wasn’t bullying and harassing Claire Curran for fun.

          Nothing Guy – The only thing he brought into NZ successfully was Microplasma Boris. It really took off.

          Jonathan Coleman – Dr Death himself.

          Clayton Cosgrove – Meh.

          David Cunliffe – So reviled in the NZ political landscape he was forced to resign after apologising for being a man.

          Paul Swain – Who?

          Lianne Dalziel – Retired to mayoralty…

          Wyatt Creech – Acting minister for 16 days!

          Tuariki Delamere – Dismissed after an NZ First coup attempt.

          I'd say Faafoi is the best of the lot, with the possible exception of Clayton Cosgrove.
          • Belladonna 10.1.1.2.1

            13 June 2022 at 6:05 pm

            Not if you look at his total lack of performance over 2020-21.

            Unless you think that doing nothing is the ministerial bench mark for any Minister of Immigration.

            Try doing that analysis with his Justice portfolio.
            • Muttonbird 10.1.1.2.1.1

              13 June 2022 at 6:19 pm

              Looking at the last 25 years of immigration ministers, doing nothing is the benchmark.

              Kris Faafoi has done a great deal. He's been at the front of the government's immigration reset. That is the policy shift away from open-tap, low skill, low value education back door immigration.

              It's a bold, socially responsible policy which, by definition, I expect you don't understand.
              • Belladonna …

                13 June 2022 at 6:41 pm

                Is that the one where Doctors are on the priority skills shortage list, but Nurses aren't?

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/128611289/midwives-and-nurses-flabbergasted-over-sexist-immigration-changes

                And the re-set where Faafoi said he'd be "quite grumpy!" if the dept didn't manage to process visas in a timely fashion (their processing times have got worse, not better since he's been in charge). I bet that's making the bureaucrats shake in their shoes (not).

                https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2022/05/kris-faafoi-grilled-over-new-immigration-settings-says-he-ll-get-grumpy-if-visas-aren-t-processed-promptly.html

                Yet to hear your explanation over why it was OK for the Dept of Immigration to do nothing for most of 2020 and 2021.

                I absolutely don't have a problem with NZ being a high-skills immigration destination. Though (according to the Green spokesman), it's not exactly socially responsible.

                Still waiting for your take on Faafoi as the greatest Justice minister of all time….
          • Robert Guyton 10.1.1.2.2

            13 June 2022 at 6:41 pm

            "Nothing Guy" – too good!
        • pat 10.1.1.3

          13 June 2022 at 6:28 pm

          sadly no, the Ministry of Imm has been a disaster for years and Faafoi made absolutely no improvement…and gave the impression he wasnt interested, which he probably wasnt.
          • Belladonna 10.1.1.3.1

            13 June 2022 at 6:53 pm

            Ooof, you can't say that Pat.

            According to @Muttonbird all Labour ministers are the pinnacle of perfection. No criticism allowed, or possible /sarc/
            • pat 10.1.1.3.1.1

              13 June 2022 at 6:59 pm

              Meh…that is to be expected from certain quarters…the whole reshuffle has an air of desperation about it.
              • Muttonbird …

                13 June 2022 at 7:43 pm

                Remember the days when Jong Kee did musical chairs with his cabinet and his fans called it clever refreshment?

                I always wondered why Keys would change his ministers twice a year but suspected it was because he struggled to show what he actually did as PM so simply showing he was boss was it for him.
                • Belladonna …

                  13 June 2022 at 7:49 pm

                  Still waiting for your take on Faafoi as the greatest Justice minister of all time. Popcorn at the ready.

                  I'm sure you'll be able to add a few links to like-minded commentators supporting your views.

                  Yes, that is sarcasm. Thought you might need me to spell it out for you.
                  • left for dead …

                    14 June 2022 at 8:16 am

                    Belladonna,you are poisonous,you point out too me,who here has stated all Labour ministers are/has been the best ?
                    • Belladonna …

                      14 June 2022 at 10:50 am

                      Try looking at @Muttonbird's comments.

                      Clearly some of the die-hard Labour supporters aren't actually interested in debate, just in an echo chamber.

                      I point out and discuss the Ministers I think are performing well (Woods, Wood, Allan, McAnulty) – and equally the ones which I think are not performing well.

                      I'm happy to debate issues (indeed, I enjoy doing so). However, debate actually requires that the other party engage with the specific issues being discussed – rather than just going silent and popping up to deflect with a 'squirrel' viewing. Under another comment.

                      I'm sorry that you think I'm poisonous, but that reflects more on you than on me. Time for a bit of reflection, perhaps.
                • pat …

                  13 June 2022 at 7:50 pm

                  John Key left politics (proper) in 2016.
                • Louis …

                  13 June 2022 at 9:34 pm

                  +1 Muttonbird
11. Blade 11

    13 June 2022 at 4:52 pm

    What are you on about, Robert?
    • Robert Guyton 11.1

      13 June 2022 at 5:41 pm

      Nanaia.

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