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Open Mike 13/05/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 13th, 2017 - 104 comments
Categories: open mike, uncategorized - Tags:

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For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

104 comments on “Open Mike 13/05/2017”

  1. Cinny 1

    Is admitting you are wrong different from lying? I guess it depends which way you spin it or if you are the NZDF and need to bury/cover something up.

    “After 20 days checking and then asserting there were no photographs, it has now had to admit it was wrong and there were photographs taken during Operation Burnham.

    NZDF has now conceded its claim there were no photographs is contrary to three images it published itself and additional unpublished images taken during the NZSAS raid.”

    Insightful article by David Fisher. Will the outgoing PM change his mind and now call for an enquiry or just bury it? I’m so sick of the gutless lack of leadership from English on this matter.

    • James 1.1

      Truth is. While some in here thinks it’s a “big deal” in the real world – most people have forgotten this already.

      Sad but true.

      • Killing civilians = “big deal” but it’s okay because “most people have forgotten.”.

        That’s craven.

        • James 1.1.1.1

          Forgotten, or don’t care, or don’t believe Hagar.

          • Robert Guyton 1.1.1.1.1

            Been subjected to manipulation by those in question in order to create forgetfulness; obfuscation, denial, distraction, delay, misdirection.

            “Don’t care”, James? Is that your position? You don’t care?

            I’m sure when you wrote, “or don’t believe Hagar”, you meant “Hagar and Stevenson”. I’m mindful that the NZDF recently expressed disbelief in claims by Mr Stevenson, but that ended badly for them. You remember that, James, or do you also suffer “severe medium term memory loss”?

            • James 1.1.1.1.1.1

              Correct. You can also put me in the don’t believe Hagar camp as well.

              • You don’t believe the accounts of Mr Stevenson and others described in “Hit and Run”?
                Why not, James?
                Which accounts do you disbelieve?
                It would appear from today’s article, that the NZDF account regarding photographs, was incorrect and not to be believed.
                Your thoughts?

          • Morrissey 1.1.1.1.2

            That’s a foolish thing to write, James. On what basis would anyone choose to “not believe Hagar”?

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2

        Assuming you are correct and “most people” have severe medium term memory loss, The Herald just reminded them.

        Diddums.

        • James 1.1.2.1

          Perhaps don’t really care about it would have been a better wording.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.1.1

            James, everyone knows you are a callous piece of shit. Stop smearing your betters.

            • James 1.1.2.1.1.1

              It hasn’t been proven as fact. So if Im callous I’ll go with you being gullible.

              • You’re coming across as extremely callous, James; you “don’t care” about the reported actions, despite not knowing whether or not they are true. Are you not even reservedly concerned that what Stephenson and others in Afghanistan reported could be true? Where does you confidence that the accounts are false come from? (an anatomical feature suggests itself)

                • James

                  And you are coming across all sanctimonious about the reported actions despite not knowing if they are true or not also.

                  • dv

                    “despite not knowing if they are true or not also.

                    AH so you would be is favour of an inquiry to sort out the truth James

                  • One Two

                    This is base level, even by your handles low standards. Whatever ‘you’ are…

                    If you’re an actual human being, take a good look at how you’re conducting yourself on this topic, and in general

                  • Quote my sanctimonious statements, James, if you can.
                    I’m happy to paste your callous ones in return.

                    • Morrissey

                      Robert, when someone like James calls you “sanctimonious”, or “a do-gooder” or “a bleeding heart” or “politically correct”, it’s nothing more than an admission of defeat on his part. He has nothing to offer, and shutting down the conversation is his only option.

                      It’s the same strategy as that used by talkback radio hosts on the extremely rare occasions someone with a clue happens to ring them up…

                      Open mike 29/06/2011

                      US Election Day Discussion Post 9/11/16

                    • Whispering Kate

                      Robert – forget about James – he isn’t worth wasting your breath over. There are people in this life that we call acceptors – they soak up everything that is bandied about – never have the energy or intelligence to critique or research what is put out in cyber space. They trust everybody and are hypocrites when they dismiss a statement or person out of hand ,- because they have never researched the information or the person to be able to dismiss or accept it. I don’t think he has much going for him upstairs really.

                    • Thanks for that Kate, I appreciate your views. I do agree that James lacks breadth and depth in his thinking, but I like to trade comments with him in order to tease out his position. At times I’m astonished by his restricted views, the limits to his imagination and the difficulty he has in assimilating new ideas, but all in all it’s instructive to hear where he and his ilk sit. Irksome, perhaps, but you’ve gotta keep tabs.

          • Ed 1.1.2.1.2

            You don’t care how a 3 year old was killed by NZ soldiers in her own village.
            The transcripts of the Standard show what you do care about.

            What a sad indictment of yourself.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.3

        If you wanted the right thing done then you wouldn’t be bringing out the false excuse that most people have forgotten about this.

        So, why don’t you want the truth known?

      • Cinny 1.1.4

        Truth is your claim has no facts to back it up James, are your misconceptions a deliberate deception?

        Maybe some people are numb to needless death and government cover ups? At least they are until it affects them, then things change rather rapidly.

        Trump appears to be gagging many too, just like the outgoing government of NZ.

        It’s a mad world

  2. ianmac 2

    Bill English just has to stick to the information given to him by the Army Leadership. That way the responsibility is not his but in this case Keating’s.
    Simple but effective.

  3. James 3

    Read on twitter that the latest UMR poll had labour at 28%.

    I guess they are used to polling around there as their natural home now.

    Wondering if labour will break 30 % in the election.

    Edit the tweet didn’t link to actual results but it falls in line with the last several years results so sounds about right.

    • Bearded Git 3.1

      @ James

      Labour have been polling around 30+ on average recently.

      30+15+12=57….it’s MMP old bean. English can’t get more than 40%.

      • James 3.1.1

        Well for starters English can get over 40 and has done in every poll to date. (Although lower 40’s at the moment).

        And you keep believing in that magical unicor that allows you to think Winston will go with Labour and the greens.

      • jcuknz 3.1.2

        Else it is 52 v. 45 to confuse seats with percentages…… more accurate is 67 v.52 or 54 v. 52 with 13 plus not known.

      • Alan 3.1.3

        Greens wont get fifteen and Winston will not be in your equation, old bean.

        • Bearded Git 3.1.3.1

          I think the Labour/Green bloc will poll 45 (30/15, 31/14, 32/13, 33/12) against the Nats 40. Where Winston goes from there is anybody’s guess, I agree.

          I think, old chep, you miss the “we are tired of this lot, time to give the others a go” factor. and the “English is not Key’ factor and the “there will be no KDC this time” factor.

    • Johan 4.1

      To Andre,
      Many people tell us that Trump is unpredictable and impulsive, however upon close scrutiny his behaviour is very much true to form, cunning and planned. The firing or “staged execution” of Comey sends a strong message to anyone who doesn’t serve Trump with blind obedience. Trump is defined as an authoritarian, honours power over reason, we have seen these flaws in Nixon, Mussolini, Hitler etc. The sooner the citizens of the USA gets rid of Trump the better for all concerned.

      • Andre 4.1.1

        Ah, the multidimensional chess grandmaster theory of Trump.

        It seems to me the flaw in that argument is every time Trump does something, there needs to be another dimension or three added to the game he’s playing for it to make sense.

        Whereas the alternative explanation, that he’s simply acting on whatever impulse feels good to him at the moment, remains a coherent and plausible explanation for everything he’s done. (Except his televised apology for “grab them by the pussy”, but his body language during that showed every sign there were a bunch of aides just off camera armed with cattle-prods to make sure he read out his prepared message and nothing else)

        Meanwhile, there remains the tiny comfort that all the time and and effort he and his team put into dealing with the brushfires he lights is taking away from the nasty shit the Republicans really want to do. Which they would actually be successfully getting on with if someone like Pence were president.

        So far there don’t seem to be signs Trump’s shit is peeling away support from his base or Republicans in Congress. The senators and representatives that have criticised firing Comey have mostly been the ones that were critical about other issues. So I don’t see impeachment getting any closer.

        • joe90 4.1.1.1

          Best explanation so far –

          That’s who he is: a disregulated bundle of impulses, being manipulated by a cast of crooks and incompetents, supported by a Republican Party willing to bet the stability of the country against upper-income tax cuts. We need to stop looking for a more complicated story.

          https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/5/12/15621140/interpret-trump

          • RedLogix 4.1.1.1.1

            True, that Vox article feels grounded and accurate. But Trump is manifestly not an idiot and everyone made a bad mistake in underestimating him from the very outset.

            Scott Adams made himself unpopular by pointing out Trump’s master skills as persuader and manipulator of the nation’s subconscious motivations, well before most other commentators.

            • Andre 4.1.1.1.1.1

              During the campaign he was a huckster salesman and showman, basically a (not-chilled-out) entertainer. Things he’s spent a lot of his life doing.

              Now he’s in a totally different game that he doesn’t have the instinctive reactions for.

            • McFlock 4.1.1.1.1.2

              I suspect that the master manipulator angle is a case of mistaking luck with intent.

              Did he consciously reflect and adapt to the mood of the nation, or was he simply the candidate most suited to the situation: the loudest one dominated the room with the crowd of republican contenders in the primaries, and the republicans have spent twenty years disenfranchising minorities and rigging the system against anyone with a brain. And then there’s the simple fact that their electoral college also means that the winner of the popular vote might still lose the presidency.

              I don’t see any evidence of intelligence: ego, insecurity, paranoia, corruption, nepotism, and other traits more suited to a feudal thug than a democratically-elected leader, sure. But all evidence I’ve seen points to him being a lucky idiot.

              “Being There” meets “The Godfather”.

              • RedLogix

                Good questions Mc Flock. I didn’t suggest Trump is a genius either. But he most certainly is a gold-plated, 100% certifiable, high functioning narcissist. Absolutely the only thing important to Trump is himself. All his behaviour confirms this.

                And because narcissists literally don’t care the slightest what other people think of them, it is very easy for them (and their related cousins the psychopaths) to instinctively read other people’s motivations, weaknesses, manipulate, lie, cheat and generally do whatever it takes to win … with absolutely no conscience, guilt, nor any of the emotional cost that inhibits most other people. .

                When most people are criticised for something they’ve just done, they immediately start to defend themselves. Trump doesn’t care about the attack, he has zero regard for what anyone else thinks, and simply forges on to the next outrage/tweet. It works because he’s a constantly moving target. This is why narcissists should never be underestimated. Especially when they have money, power and status. (Which of course they crave.)

                For example the ‘pussy grabbing’ thing would have ended any normal politician, with Trump it’s an almost forgotten niggle from the distant past, buried under a constant torrent of daily outrages. In a few months time this Comey thing will have been forgotten while the world is transfixed by his latest WTF.

        • Johan 4.1.1.2

          A simple approach Andre, ” If you don’t play ball with me then, YOU’RE FIRED!
          Sounds familiar? He merely replaces one person for a yes-man. To control the department of the FBI is a powerful weapon, towards Trump’s end-game.

          • Andre 4.1.1.2.1

            Yeah, he can try for a yes-man. But the new FBI director will need to be confirmed by the Senate. While I’m not sure if the Dems can filibuster it, I’m fairly confident that whatever honeymoon Trump had with the Senate is over and there’s at least three Republicans who will require the nominee to be someone with a few principles that will stand up to Trump when needed. Even if those principles are recidivist conservative ones that horrify us liberals.

  4. It’s a big weekend for Andrew Little and Labour. It’s critical that some solid policy is announced, and that Maori issues are properly addressed.

    It’s sad to see this from the opening.

    @CTrevettNZH

    Justin Lester opening Labour Party Congress. On being from Invercargill: “people are surprised you’re not married to your sister.”

    That’s awful.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1

      Will you be OK?

      Everyone take a moment to pity poor Peter.

      • weka 5.1.1

        I’m struggling to see a context where Lester’s comment would have been ok, given who he is and where he was speaking.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1

          I’m more concerned about poor Peter.

        • Bill 5.1.1.2

          Oh, perhaps on a weekend when everything Labour is everything good. Coz that means that nothing fucked up can be anything other than good if it’s coming from Labour quarters, and calling out something good is, of course, fucked up.

          Least, that’s the best I can do by way of helping you overcome your struggling. Hope it helped.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.2.1

            These are politicians we’re talking about right? An allegedly ‘representative’ crowd.

            I think Peter’s reaction is a little overblown. Demonstrative of obvious bias, possibly even a sort of blancmange malice.

            As for Labour, I’m sure there’ll be plenty of ‘awful’ to go around once they start making policy announcements.

            • Pete George 5.1.1.2.1.1

              “reaction is a little overblown” – you really are a joker, aren’t you.

              “possibly even a sort of blancmange malice” – more irony.

              Are you aware that your overblown malice can be counterproductive to your agenda?

            • weka 5.1.1.2.1.2

              “These are politicians we’re talking about right? An allegedly ‘representative’ crowd.”

              Making incest jokes is so the incestuous Labour voters don’t feel left out? Or maybe the incestuous Labour members and activists?

              I get that you think having a go at PG is more important.

    • tinfoilhat 5.2

      Good grief Pete lighten up.

    • Morrissey 5.3

      “people are surprised you’re not married to your sister.”

      The Invercargill people obviously mistook him for a member of ACT.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210373

    • Muttonbird 5.4

      Noted RWNJ journalists Trevett, Watkins, and Young will be all over this Congress and Andrew Little, criticising Labour and Little, and framing them negatively at any and every opportunity.

      Watkins does so here, unhappy Little is consistently communicating Labour’s message and unhappy he’s not John Key.

      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/92524621/andrew-little-stays-on-message-and-sounds-offkey

      And Young here, using language like ‘sheer nightmare’.

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11854696

  5. Johan 7

    Just watched an interview between Andrew Little and Paddy Gower on the Nation. As a life long supporter of the left, this interview gave Jacinda Ardern a tremendous political boost.

    • mauī 7.1

      Yeah I didn’t enjoy that, the tv performances are crucial.

      • James 7.1.1

        Thanks Johan – just watched it.

        I actually laughed out loud.

        I encourage little to do more tv interviews.

        Interviews are not his strong point are they – this and the charter school interview on radio Nz being good recent examples of train wrecks.

        Edit link added for your viewing pleasure. http://bit.ly/2rbbUK9

        • Marco 7.1.1.1

          I almost feel sorry for the guy, then I remember the nastiness simmering under his angry countenance. Labour is past it’s use by date. Winstone will be the leader of the opposition after the election.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.1.1.1

            🙄

            Your borrowed astroturf is worn and tatty around the edges.

          • weka 7.1.1.1.2

            “Winstone will be the leader of the opposition after the election”

            God, I hope so.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 7.2

      Not exactly Little’s worst performance.

  6. xanthe 8

    New book “shattered” autopsy of failed clinton campaign, plenty of hits on google and coverage in MSM but funnily enough so for none of them seem to cover this
    pic.twitter.com/NDUk90Jp5q

  7. dv 9

    A NASA animation shows how much the Earth has warmed since 1880: the period 2012 to 2016 is the warmest on record

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/weather/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503080&gal_cid=1503080&gallery_id=175905

    This is telling.

  8. saveNZ 10

    Leaked documents reveal serious concerns about KiwiRail’s decision to switch from electric trains to diesel

    “KiwiRail announced the decision last year, and said diesel would improve reliability and efficiency.

    But an external peer review by engineering consultants WorleyParsons warns diesel trains bought from China have “a very high failure rate”.

    Seven to nine are out of service at any one time for maintenance, repair and asbestos removal. And their performance has been “extraordinarily poor”.

    The review said KiwiRail should be switching its whole fleet to electric, but it said a paper from the company’s board was “biased towards the diesel option”.

    And there are more concerns from a separate internal report, which says KiwiRail over-inflated expected savings – and upgrading electric trains was actually $230m cheaper than replacing them with diesel.

    And Treasury also had concerns. Cabinet advice given to the Green Party under the Official Information Act shows officials weren’t convinced by the business case.
    They warned KiwiRail “provided no basis for its cost estimate” that electrifying the whole main trunk line could be up to $1bn.”

    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/leaked-documents-reveal-serious-concerns-kiwirails-decision-switch-electric-trains-diesel

    • xanthe 10.1

      yeah well it didn’t take leaked documents to see that was a dumb idea!
      but yes very interesting to see that kiwirail bosses also realised that

      SO…. What was the real reason for that decision. Kickback? , govt policy of discouraging renewals?, CIA??.. hmm i wonder if this info will come out too

    • Ad 10.2

      Good hit Genter.

      Was also important to see Braid from Mainfreight emphasising rail freight this week.

      I’d prefer a Labour-Green govt committed to full grid electrification.

      • RedLogix 10.2.1

        I knew a few senior KiwiRail engineers socially; and while they never told me anything I shouldn’t know it was clear they believed the Minister has politically interfered with the Board on a number of occasions.

        The DL loco deal was corrupt. That was well understood.

        And because KiwiRail is so dependent on govt funding to re-build it’s shattered infrastructure the pressure and meddling continues on all manner of decision big and small.

        No surprises here … except perhaps that WorleyParsons (who have specific expertise in this area) used such blunt language.

    • millsy 10.3

      “Mothballing” the NIMT electrification is a dumb idea. Just dumb. Switching the locos at Te Rapa and Palmy only takes about 10-20 mins, and can be quite easily timed with the engineer’s breaks. The DL’s are bascially crap from what I have heard, spening half their time in the shop.

      It is also very well to say that the catenary will be left in place, but who’s to say that it will not be allowed to deterioarate? A few stormy winters and KR will be removing parts of the traction equipment due to storm damage.

      When Toll’s above rail assets were purchased 9 years ago (that long!) it was supposed to be a new era for rail in this country. When National came in, they realised that they couldnt just turn around and flog it off as a going concern, so they decided to instead run it down and sell it off bit by bit. the mothball/closure of various lines (some not even announced) the sale of railway land and buildings, scrapping of locomotive classes, etc and so on.

      • RedLogix 10.3.1

        The DL’s are bascially crap from what I have heard, spening half their time in the shop.

        Specifically the major components like the German MTU engines are ok. But the integration of all the elements into a reliable machine takes decades of experience and many design iterations to nail all the gremlins. And the Chinese simply did not have that history when these locos where purchased.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.3.2

        Actual competition that reduces profits for National’s donors can’t be allowed.

    • weka 10.4

      So is this Solid Energy all over again? Just make stupid business decisions until it can’t function? It’s hard not to see this as deliberate, mostly because I can’t conceive of people being so inept. But hey, National, bringing us inept *and greedy since 2008.

      • Draco T Bastard 10.4.1

        So is this Solid Energy all over again?

        Certainly looks that way. The private sector costs more, is less efficient than government departments and provides worse service and so National has to undermine them to make the private sector look good.

  9. saveNZ 11

    America has become so anti-innovation – it’s economic suicide

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/11/tech-innovation-silicon-valley-juicero

    Inequality – (look at this in the context of the passenger that was recently beaten by airport staff at United Airlines when they decided to forcefully take his seat.)

    At LA airport’s new private terminal, the rich can watch normal people suffer

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/12/lax-private-terminal-rich-people-celebrities

  10. ropata 12

    ACT got Hacked!
    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/05/12/breaking-exclusive-massive-online-act-party-data-breach/

    PG gets it wrong as usual —
    https://yournz.org/2017/05/12/bradbury-does-dirty/

    Bradbury had nothing to do with it, the information was emailed to him. He didn’t publish any details about how it was done, nor did he publish the files anywhere.

    However he did publish one document in the public interest — because ACT want to suppress iwi consultation in RMA decisions

    • James 12.1

      He went reading them when he knew he should not have. Then published stuff he thought could cause issues.

      This is similar to the illegal actions of whale how ??

      • Robert Guyton 12.1.1

        James, on a day when you have been revealed as callous and uncaring on this very thread, how can you pop up again with your puerile witterings and hope to be taken seriously? Just askin’

        Example #1, OneTwo commented: “This is base level, even by your handles low standards. Whatever ‘you’ are…”
        What a sad indictment of yourself.”
        “If you’re an actual human being, take a good look at how you’re conducting yourself on this topic, and in general”

        Ed added, “You don’t care how a 3 year old was killed by NZ soldiers in her own village.
        The transcripts of the Standard show what you do care about.”

        James? You okay?

        • James 12.1.1.1

          I’m fine. Thanks for asking. You could just answer the question ….

          • Robert Guyton 12.1.1.1.1

            Answer a question from a callous RWNJ who doesn’t care?

            Why?

            “Ed 1.1.2.1.2
            13 May 2017 at 9:24 am
            You don’t care how a 3 year old was killed by NZ soldiers in her own village.
            The transcripts of the Standard show what you do care about.

            What a sad indictment of yourself.”

      • The decrypter 12.1.2

        All to complicated for me james. What happens now? -or could happen I probably should have said

      • ropata 12.1.3

        It’s fucken strange how RWNJ’s don’t have a problem with Nacts endless lies and coverups but lose their shit when they are exposed.

        Democracy requires transparency and honesty about what your party is doing or plans to do. Not lying to the public constantly .

      • Robert Guyton 12.1.4

        ““Don’t care”, James? Is that your position? You don’t care?”

        James: “Correct”.

        QFT

    • infused 12.2

      Act database left open online… mmm… smells like something that happened to Labour. I believe there was a massive uproar about that…

      • McFlock 12.2.1

        While the vulnerability might be similar, the actions of the blogging political opponents are completely different. And the bulk of the uproar was in regards to the actions of the blogger and his political paymasters in the first case.

  11. The decrypter 13

    Standard please pay your power bill ,we miss you.

  12. The decrypter 15

    Some body turn off the main power switch again. james is back with vengeance, sorting out the poms now.

  13. Sacha 16

    A concise article about reframing: https://georgelakoff.com/2017/01/28/the-publics-viewpoint-regulations-are-protections/

    ‘regulations’ —> protections

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    5 days ago
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  • New District Court Judge appointed
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    2 weeks ago