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Open Mike 15/04/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, April 15th, 2018 - 254 comments
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254 comments on “Open Mike 15/04/2018 ”

  1. Sacha 1

    Given the pushback now over stopping oil exploration in 30 years, what messages should the left be promoting about NZ’s transition to low-carbon employment?

    • Rosemary McDonald 1.1

      Seems peculiar that some are getting hot and bothered about possible low carbon job losses when the greater ‘threat’ to employment is AI and automation.

      I envisage that jobs will be created as new, low/no carbon tech is developed.

      Because,of course, the government has already earmarked $$$ for this purpose.

      • James 1.1.1

        I love the comments a few have made about jobs being lost.

        But it’s ok they will all be hired in some amazing green tech which hasn’t been developed / invented yet.

        • joe90

          I’m struggling to recall anyone on the right giving a rats about the future of the ten of thousands of folk who lost jobs during their mob’s most recent tenure.

          • Jenny

            @ joe90 Indeed you are correct. The Right’s new found concern for “jobs” is actually code for “profits”.

          • Draco T Bastard

            They don’t give a rats arse about poor people having jobs unless it’s to the point where wages are going up because of a shortage of workers at which point National will open the borders to skill shortages like café workers and labourers just to keep wages down and the majority in poverty.

        • Brigid

          Amazing green tech has been developed. Only the ignorant aren’t aware of it.

          • Chuck

            “Amazing green tech has been developed.”

            Yes, I agree, and it covers quite a diverse range of technology.

            “Only the ignorant aren’t aware of it.”

            Now, that’s not fair. Of course, we have hydro, solar, wind, geothermal that are in commercial use.

            The other techs are still in development, commercialization process. I would not expect most people to be fully aware of them atm.

            I have visited a number of sites where new green tech is being used, the latest visit was in the Dominican Republic. They have a 100 MW power plant that normally uses heavy fuel oil, in part converted to using rice husks and other biomass to supplement the fuel oil via Bio oil and syngas. The emission profile and cost to run the plant have substantially reduced.

        • Jenny

          But it’s ok they will all be hired in some amazing green tech which hasn’t been developed / invented yet.


          Never forget James, “Necessity is the mother of invention”.

          I know for a fact that, Fonterra for instance, has a lot of low carbon plans ready to implement just sitting on a shelf at their head office in Fanshaw Street. Plans that will never be implemented, developed or realised while fossil fuels are cheap and readily available.

          Cut ’em off, and the search for the alternative solutions will tumble out.

          Mark my words; Jobs, lots of them will be the result.


          • Jenny

            It’s been called White Gold”, and for a reason. Powdered milk for the export market has been the behind Fonterra’s global success, with China taking all Fonterra can produce, and more.

            Just two of the technologies that Fonterra have looked into for development, if their supply of cheap fossil fuels is cut off, is micro drying and condensing of milk at the farm gate. And Salt Solar for industrial heat at the factory.

            Micro drying using not much more energy that is currently being used to refrigerate milk in vats prior to collection . Currently Milk tankers are carrying mostly water by weight to Fonterra’s plants where it is then driven off, by burning coal. Condensed at the farm, Milk does not need as many tankers on the roads, nor refrigeration. Nor does it need as much coal or other industrial heat source to reduce it to its final powdered form.

            And molten salt solar for industrial heat will remove the need for fossil fuels altogether.

            Yep. It’s rocket science, luckilly for us, New Zealand has a mature rocket technology.

            Jobs, heaps of them.

            In fact the attraction of fossil fuels to business is that they are less labour intensive than almost every other form of energy.


        • Draco T Bastard

          Actually, many of the green-tech has been invented. Solar panels, wind generators, geo-thermal.

          What the problem is is that too many people are used to using fossil fuels and are scared of the change while the people who get rich from the use of fossil fuels can afford the propaganda and political lobbying which influences the people scared of the necessary changes.

          If it hasn’t been developed yet then the government can hire all the over-educated café assistants to develop them and create even more jobs.

          • Jenny

            What the problem is is that too many people are used to using fossil fuels and are scared of the change while the people who get rich from the use of fossil fuels can afford the propaganda and political lobbying which influences the people scared of the necessary changes.

            Draco T Bastard

            Unlike the harm caused by slavery, the harm in the use of fossil fuels is of course indirect, long range, even unintended. It seems at first glance to be a fundamentally different kind of harm, and the unintended consequences of ongoing use of fossil fuels have only recently become understood. Initially, their use was seen as positive and progressive. But now that we know the consequences, and continue, globally, to increase emission levels, how can we still consider these consequences “unintended”?

            Consumers of goods made by slaves or absentee plantation owners who lived in Britain in the 18th century also benefited from the slave system without maintaining direct connections to it. Those beneficiaries can certainly be said to have committed a morally comparable sort of human transgression to that of people who benefit from fossil fuels today.

            Why is all of this relevant for climate change policy? Our contemporary economies have become extremely dependent on fossil fuels, just as slave societies were dependent on their slaves – indeed far more than the latter ever were. As one scholar remarked: “That US Congressmen tend to rationalise fossil fuel use despite climate risks to future generations just as southern congressmen rationalised slavery despite ideals of equality is perhaps unsurprising.”


            The flipside of the slavery argument is that the government didn’t sell the slaveholders their slaves.

            Revoking previously-issued permits that were being complied with, one could argue, goes back to the Magna Carta, the basic principle of whether the government of the day is subject to its own laws or whether subjects must adapt to the capricious whims of totalitarian rule.



            • McFlock

              Yup. Block contracts for preliminary minerals exploration which, if it pans out, might lead to an application for a mining permit that might or might not be granted is totally morally equivalent to selling someone a slave 🙄 /sarc

        • Sumsuch

          Otherwise, they and their children would die early. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

    • Stuart Munro 1.2

      If we want solar to be a significant contributor, there needs to be a rule that powercos must pay the same as they sell it for. Ditto for microhydro or any other home sustainability improvement.

      No-one should get to gatekeep it for profit.

      • Draco T Bastard 1.2.1

        If we want solar to be a significant contributor, there needs to be a rule that powercos must pay the same as they sell it for.

        That would be the best option but even having them pay the current Spot price would help. After all, the Spot Pricing is there to determine which generators come online. The high Spot prices will encourage more people to install solar to get the returns from it.

        Of course, the cheap solar power will, eventually, make fossil fuelled power generation obsolete.

        BTW, The Greens had such a bill drawn from the basket but it was voted down by National and Act. I’m pretty sure that they did so because they understood what would happen to the donors profits as more power generation outside of the control of the corporates came online.

        • Chuck

          “The high Spot prices will encourage more people to install solar to get the returns from it.”

          Wrong Draco…spot prices surge when demand is highest. That does not happen on a nice sunny day.

          • Incognito

            Spot prices are one tool to protect profits of the power companies. People installing solar panels and batteries are a counter-measure to prevent their money flowing back into the pockets of the power companies and their shareholders.

          • Draco T Bastard

            But it does occur and even on cloudy days solar panels still generate electricity. I assume it’s those cloudy days when people turn on their heaters that you’re concerned about.

            So, it will still have some effect.

            And then there’s the fact that if it’s cloudy in one area doesn’t mean that it’s cloudy everywhere and so the solar panels in the sunny area will be doing really well as the demand rises in the cloudy area.

            The point, of course, is that with enough solar panels installed across the country the spot prices won’t be getting high enough to turn on the old fossil fuelled generators.

            And that’s going to upset the owners of that out dated and dangerous plant as they won’t be able to get their unearned income from it.

      • alwyn 1.2.2

        Who would you propose as being the person who pays for the cost of the National Grid to ship it around the country?

        And you don’t really think that you producing power at your home far from anywhere in Central Otago should be paid the same rate for the excess power you generate on a fine day in mid-summer when supply is vastly above demand as the price you will expect your power to be delivered on a day when a miserable Southerly is hitting the whole country do you?

        • KJT

          National grid. Common necessary infrastructure like road, rail lines, ports and schools.
          As we have found, best supplied by a Democratic Government on a non profit basis.

    • Carolyn_Nth 1.3

      Surely if the extractive industries are wound down, then there’ll be a whole re-structuring of the working class. Must check if this has been written about.

      Basically, the working class that formed in the 18th-20th centuries, was developed around extractive industries: either directly eg mining; or indirectly ie industrial factories, which processed extractive materials, and used extracted resources for industrial processes.

      Working class communities developed around these systems.

      So, with a restructuring of work, must also surely mean a big upheaval for working class people?

      • Sacha 1.3.1

        The next couple of decades will continue our long shift from extractive to manufacturing to service to creative industries – and the range of jobs available will evolve accordingly. Making sure that people who do not own the banks or the means of production are involved in the shaping of that evolution is a big political challenge.

        What can the left do and say to reassure current workers that they and their children will have solid jobs and income to rely on?

        • Carolyn_Nth

          In some ways this should suit NZ. NZ has never been a highly industrialised country. We have relied more on the primary sector – farms and extractive industries – forestry, etc. And there has always been a relatively big service sector – our urban populations have been bigger than our rural ones, and it is in urban areas that the service sector has been strongest.

          Rod Oram’s article today addresses climate change and the farming sector.


          • Sacha

            Good article, thanks.

            On one hand, agriculture emissions are 49 percent of our total emissions, by far the highest proportion for a developed economy. On the other, our farmers and the scientists and businesses that support them, are among the most innovative in the world.

            The answers are the same for agriculture as other sectors. Science, design, innovative business methods and strong, inclusive governance are our key tools. Let’s invest in, monitor and insist they all perform.

            • Draco T Bastard

              The answers are the same for agriculture as other sectors.

              Not really. IMO, we need to seriously decrease the amount of land that is dedicated to farming and let that which is freed up return to the wild. Plant native trees on that land and then simply watch it.

              We need the biodiversity to return and the evolutionary paths that it opens up.

              No more than ~15% of land area should be dedicated to growing food for humans. That’s enough to feed us in NZ but not enough for exports.

              • Sacha

                What do you envisage replacing that export revenue?

                • Draco T Bastard

                  High tech. It’s already doing well and is growing and has less effect upon the environment.

                  But even then it’s something that we have to do even if we didn’t have a replacement. The economics tells us that we can’t continue farming to the extent that we are.

              • JohnSelway

                GE farming man, way of the future

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Just so long as it takes up no more than 15% of the land area.

                  • JohnSelway

                    Well that’s kinda the point of most GE farming. High yield from a smaller plot

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      The problem I have with GE farming is that to get that higher yield requires artificial fertilisers which cause run-off into streams etc. In other words, its probably not sustainable and is polluting.

                    • Monty

                      I was at the future food tech. A couple weeks back.

                      3D food printers. Amazing and potentially a massive disruption to the food industry. Uses protein base components, vegetable base and then prints the food each meal takes about 5 to 10 minutes.

                      You choose the program/menu item you want and come back and enjoy.

                      The protein and vege base components can come from anywhere seaweed, soy, rice, man made. Plus no wastage. They were talking as tech gets better you simply put left overs back into machine and it breaks it down again. (That’s someway off but being worked on).

                      Imagine the disruption to supermarkets. As all you would need is a bag of powder or flavouring. Does a house need a kitchen.

                      Whole new industries would be invented and existing ones would have to adapt.

                      Having a steak or real fish would be a rare special event as your every day food is printed.

                  • gsays

                    Do you and John Selway have a way of keeping GM pollen and seeds within the 15% allocation?

          • Janet

            Yes its time now to step up Permaculture, Organics and all other forms of sustainable land management. People ,not chemicals, will again be involved in the growing of produce. Soil and water will be restored. Made in New Zealand will be pure and green.

        • faroutdude

          I think it’s great that those 10,000’s of un or underemployed that couldn’t (or didn’t want to) work in old tech jobs (dairying, metal trades etc) will suddenly be snapped up at high wage by new tech, creative type positions. Not sure how they’ll get to work when petrol is priced out of existence – maybe there will be an electric light rail to every street, or everyone will be give a Tesla by Gummint. Maybe the Ministry of Power will build hi- performance battery plants everywhere – it must be easy to do as Musk is finding. Or maybe everyone will be like the Green MP’s and have PV on their roofs..oh hang on, they don’t. Or more likely, we’ll build more solar & wind pumped hydro storage..hang on, more hydro is out.
          Luckily we’ll have gas turbines for peak demand in the evenings when the sun is down..no, that’s right we don’t like gas anymore.
          But the feelz will be there of course.

    • AB 1.4

      “Pushback” I think is being kind.
      Anybody who believes that in 20-30 years time we can still be finding, digging up and burning NEW sources of oil, is frankly nuts. The oil industry and the people of Taranaki already know this is a sunset industry.
      Most of the supposed ‘pushback’ is just the usual suspects using this rather timid and completely non-controversial announcement as a convenient stick to keep beating a mildly leftish government with.
      In the past, rapid technology change has always cause massive disruption – usually some people do very well and make out like bandits while lots of others go to the wall. That’s the supposed ‘creative destruction’ of capitalism that is so lauded on the right and it is assumed to be just the way change happens. The huge challenge is to convince people that this time it won’t be like that (so the layers of irony are thick here)

    • Gabby 1.5

      ‘Don’t worry, you’ll be dead by then.’ Would that work sashy?

    • Draco T Bastard 2.1

      The Royal prerogative of mercy provides a way for criminal cases to be re-opened where a person may have been wrongly convicted. The prerogative is exercised by the Governor–General but in reality it is a decision for the Minister of Justice. The most common result is for the case to be referred back to the courts.

      My bold.

      Seems like a waste of legislature.

  2. Morrissey 3

    Wallace Chapman, like the lame Jacinda Ardern, is not up to the job.
    RNZ National, Sunday 15 April 2018, 7:25 a.m.

    Wallace Chapman has just made the following statement: “The Russian media have swallowed the Kremlin line….”

    That statement is no doubt true, but Chapman seems to have made no such statement about the U.S. media, which have unashamedly parroted the Trump maladministration’s line. Nor has he said anything about the media parrots in the U.K., Australia, and New Zealand.

    As I write this, RNZ’s go-to expert Al Gillespie, grandly titled “the Professor of International Law at Waikato University”, has just told Chapman: “This looks good for Trump.”

    More on Al Gillespie….

    Open Mike 14/03/2018

    • Ed 3.1

      The western corporate media with few notable brave exceptions repeat the lies of the deep state.

      Al Gillespie is just another captured academic.

      • James 3.1.1

        So In Ed’s world almost all the western media have it wrong – it a few people on obscure blogs and Russian media have it right?

        Oh and of course Galloway (the man who likes to get around on all fours pretend to be a pussy cat)

        So question Ed:

        Does Russia have a deep state?

        Or are their papers immune to it ?

        • Morrissey

          In the real world, the “western media” do indeed have it wrong, just like they did fifteen years ago when they parroted the lies of the Bush/Blair axis.

          Your comments about Galloway, James, might have some credibility if they were accompanied by similar expressions of distaste for the far more puerile antics of Donald Trump.

          • James

            “In the real world, the “western media” do indeed have it wrong,”

            Since you state it as a fact – any (and I mean any) credible source to back up you comment.

            • Morrissey

              You haven’t read much, James. This would be an excellent start for you…


              • James

                I asked (nicely) for a credible source – you know that’s one with facts (proving Assad didn’t has his people as an example) to back up your argument and proving your point.

                Might be harder for a link to that.

                • Morrissey

                  I provided you with a link to possibly the world’s most respected journalist. As I suspected, you are not interested.

                  • James

                    And I asked for actual facts – and unsurprisingly you don’t seem interested.

                    Also he is not the worlds most respected journalist but a decent way.

                  • Stunned mullet

                    “..possibly the world’s most respected journalist.”

                    When he takes parts in debacles such as the link below ?


                    Perhaps ‘one of journalism’s largest egos’ would be closer to a moment of truth.

                    • Morrissey

                      Like James, you are notorious here for your lack of reading. Perhaps you should read some of Greenwald’s articles before you comment.

                    • Stunned Mullet

                      Greenwald’s articles are a bore one only needs to see the subject of to know what the article will say.

                      At least he hasn’t stooped to the third rate stenography of hacks such as yourself though.

                    • Morrissey

                      Your comments tell us nothing about Greenwald, but everything we need to know about you.

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      Greenwald’s articles are a bore one only needs to see the subject of to know what the article will say.

                      Ah, the wilful ignorance of the RWNJs.

        • cleangreen


          Russia may have a deep state but not a “”global deep state” as the west has now under the control of Elitists.

          That is a serious problem now as this western deep state is now bigger than any government can reign in James.

          So we are being swept into a large scale control of another kind never seen before now.

          Question to you is; “are you happy with not being able to control your future and that all future control of issues are now under the control of a “elitists state and no longer by any government?”

          • James

            So who is this mysterious deep state ?

            Is Jacinda a member ?

            • cleangreen


              These organisations are under the umbrellas of the likes of NATO/The Bilderberg Group and their associates, https://www.illuminatirex.com/secret-societies/ and they are run under “the Chatham rules” where the meetings are always secret and no details are given as to the ‘complete list of attendees’ and sometimes other ‘truth seekers’ folks get into the meetings and post some real facts as to who actually had attended some of those meetings.

              The Bilderberg Group meetings for instance was attended by John Key and four National Party members to their 2011/12 meetings but we could never find out much about what key promised to do other than he agreed to sell off public assets as Bilderberg members were asking what Kiwis would do if he tried to do this.

              Note; according to this site list; https://www.illuminatirex.com/secret-societies/
              anyone who is a ‘freemason’ member will be sworn to carry out the wishes of the ‘freemasons’ and their associates so you see how we are being structured for control takeover?

              If you want the evidence of John Key’s attendance/involvement I am happy to post it for you.

              • joe90

                These organisations are under the umbrellas of the likes of NATO/The Bilderberg Group and their associates, https://www.illuminatirex.com/secret-societies/ and they are run under “the Chatham rules” where the meetings are always secret and no details are given as to the ‘completer list of attendees and sometimes other dfolks get into the meetings and post some real facts as to who actually had attended some of those meetings

                Oh dear…..


                Conspiracy comics, lists, articles and other conspiratorial goodies….


                Caveat lector – Readers beware

                Illuminati Rex is fictional and for entertainment only. Illuminati Rex is based on numerous conspiracy theories, some are probable while others are completely made up. Theories are opinions, which may or may not be true.

                Illuminati Rex and its authors make no judgment as to the truth or accuracy of any of the conspiracy theories covered on this site or as to the truth or accuracy of any of the implied relationships between any facts.

                Any likeness to persons living or dead is entirely coincidental, unless otherwise noted.


                • solkta

                  What’s truth
                  got to do with it got to do with it
                  What’s truth
                  but a second hand opinion

                  • cleangreen

                    Like I said – on

                    like they say; – “the first casualty of war is the truth.”

                    This goes simply to both sides.

                    Our worry is that ‘the west’ including our ‘west’ media is blindly following the global ‘west’s narratives only.

                    So we need to take caution not throw it to the wind as the pudits above for war from the right has,

                    Many including UN secretary have said we need to see proof firstly but the west went and blew it up so now we will never be able to prove the “truth”from opinion.

                    A clever way to start a war it seems as hitler did with poland right?

                    • solkta

                      Truth is the first casualty of cleangreen.

                      Our worry is that ‘the west’ including our ‘west’ media is blindly following the global ‘west’s narratives only.

                      Better than blindly believing what one reads on a joke site.

                    • Tuppence Shrewsbury

                      I’m fucking gasping for air right now

                      That is too good

                  • veutoviper


                    Sorry totally off topic, but a genuine question re the Green Party.

                    I recall that the Party used to have a set of Values, which used to be on the website. I tried finding this on the website a few days ago without success. I found the Charter, Constitution and Standing Orders – but no Values.

                    Google came up with this link as the first in a list but no success with this (site cannot be reached) or the other links.


                    Can you help with a link or a copy and paste, if they are still valid?

                    Many thanks in advance.

                    • Macro

                      The NZ Green Party website has been undergoing “reconstruction” in recent times and that page seems to have disappeared temporarily.
                      But here are the Ten Key Values:
                      Social Justice
                      Community-Based Economics
                      Future Focus/Sustainability
                      Personal and Global Responsibility
                      Respect for Diversity
                      Grassroots Democracy
                      Ecological Wisdom

                • James

                  Oh sweet Jesus – I haven’t laughed so much in so long.

                • cleangreen

                  We believe Wikipedia;

                  So they confirm all this list of associated groups ,so what is truth when you see it then?


                  See factual documents of the secretive nature of the associated group.



                  • james

                    Im just going to quote to you from the second paragraph of the “factual documents” you linked to.

                    “Their goal is nothing less than total enslavement of the human race through mind control, police state laws, population culling, and constant tracking. All of this will be done to please the Dark Lord himself: Satan”

                    Yep – that sounds all legit and factual.

                    When you start quoting things like that to back up your argument – you know you have lost the argument.

                    Cleangreen facts “enslavement of the human race through mind control to please the Dark Lord Satan”

                    And here we were trying to keep this secret – but you were to clever for us and found it on the internet.

        • Cinny

          Russian trolls are currently very active online, all sorts of narratives are being pushed and shoved around the social media atm. Easy way to spread propaganda.

          Assad claimed he went to work in the morning as normal, clip was shown on Syrian TV, the shadow of a tree clearly shows it is the middle of the day.

          Meanwhile there are conflicting accounts of how many of the air strikes actually reached their targets, and different reports on the amount that were intercepted.

          I don’t believe any of them, not the russians, not syria and not the west.

          We can’t show you the proof, it’s a matter of intelligence, just believe us, say’s the west. Watched the ambassadors pleading their countries cases at the UN on a live stream early this morning, they are all very convincing.

          Then I wonder….. if bombs were used to blow up suspected chemical weapons manufacturing sites….. wouldn’t the chemicals stored there be released into the atmosphere after being hit? Would it not create cloud of gas etc?

          • cleangreen

            cinny, like they say; – “the first casualty of war is the truth.”

            This goes simply to both sides.

            Our worry is that ‘the west’ including our ‘west’ media is blindly following the global ‘west’s narratives only.

          • Brigid

            Look at the information you do know is the truth and analyse that.
            A country was bombed.
            Was that country a threat to any other?
            If not, why was it bombed?

            • cleangreen

              Bridgit, why was it bombed?

              US chose to bomb Syria as the evidence was about to be found by the international inspectors who were about to arrive in syria to complete the examination of the sites “alleged” to be making chemical weapons so US chose to destroy the evidence firstly.

              • Stunned mullet

                🙄 They didn’t bomb the area in which there was the most recent alleged use of chemical weapons.

                i really do suggest you have an enema.

                • cleangreen

                  Stunned mullet;

                  Insults again from you are becoming sad.

                  Stunned mullet you are a sick person as you claim to know all the facts ahead of anyone else.

                  So are you now a propagandist or just pushing ‘false media’ reports from doggy sources?

                  We all are only guessing the truth here.

                  Until the inspectors actually produce the evidence we should not speculate here.

          • I too wondered about that, Cinny.

            It seems to me to be the height of irresponsibility to bomb a ‘chemical factory’ in the middle of urban areas because of the chance of those very gases being released and killing innocent civilians.

            Unless, of course, there were no gases there in the first place – oops, I shouldn’t have said that – not received wisdom, don’t you know.

            • Cinny

              Chemical weapons experts have only just arrived in Damascus. Wonder what they will discover and who said experts are?

              Just remembered about the dedicated thread, so will continue over there 🙂

          • Stuart Munro

            Sarin is usually stored as a two part mix, and it degrades rapidly at high temperatures such as are found in fires and explosions. It’s possible some sarin would be formed destroying a stockpile, but it would likely be rapidly destroyed. This tends to cast doubt on “bombing terrorist stockpiles” stories.


      • Morrissey 3.1.2

        It’s depressing listening to the likes of Wallace Chapman and Kathryn Ryan. I recommend anyone who wants to hear intelligent and serious commentary to watch Democracy Now! on Sky Channel 83, 10 p.m. Monday to Saturday. It gives me hope and reassurance in the basic goodness of Americans, and it’s a reminder that there are indeed principled and honest journalists….


        • patricia bremner

          Haven’t listened to Kathryn Ryan since she had Hooten screaming invective anti- left rubbish during the election. Typical “Good cop Bad cop” routine. Not convincing. Her guests favoured the right quite often… it became too much.
          Too too obvious.

          • Macro

            That’s sad because you miss a lot of very informed journalism wrt a wide range of topics. The first hour 9 – 10 is usually very good.

    • Bill 3.2

      [The following is the text of a comment submitted by Red Blooded that fell foul of the gremlins. This is the quickest and easiest way to bring it back] – Bill

      Al Gillespie is “Grandly titled” because he’s earned that title, Morrisey. You don’t have to agree with his comments, but he has considerable expertise and experience. It’s perfectly appropriate for RNZ to call on him as an expert commentator.

      from the Uni of Waikato’s website:
      Professor Alexander Gillespie
      LLB LLM(Hons) Auckland PhD Nottingham

      Professor Alexander Gillespie obtained his LLB and LLM degrees with Honours from The University of Auckland. He did his PhD at Nottingham and post-doctoral studies at Colombia University in New York City. His areas of scholarship pertain to international and comparative environmental law; the laws of war; and a number of pressing issues of social concern such as drug policy; and refugees.

      Alexander has published sixteen books. The latest works have been Waste Policy: International Regulation, Comparative and Contextual Perspectives. (Edward Elgar, London, 2015); International Environmental Law, Policy and Ethics. (OUP, Second edition, 2015); and The Causes of War: Volume II (1000-1400) and Volume III (1400-1650), both published by Bloomsbury, NYC, 2017. The Long Road to Sustainability, published by Oxford University Press, Oxford, late 2017, is his most recent work. He has also written over forty academic articles.

      Alexander has been awarded a Rotary International Scholarship, Fulbright Fellowship, Rockerfeller Fellowship, and the New Zealand Law Foundation International Research Fellowship. His most recent award is from the Franqcui Foundation in Belgium, with which he will hold a professorship at Ghent University for six months during 2018. Alexander has also been the lawyer/expert on a number of international delegations and advised the New Zealand government on multiple matters of international concern. Professor Gillespie was the first New Zealander to be named Rapporteur for the World Heritage Convention, involving international environmental diplomacy under the auspice of UNESCO. Alexander has also been engaged in policy formation for the United Nations, the Commonwealth Secretariat, and governmental, commercial and non-governmental organisations in New Zealand, Australia, United States, United Kingdom, Ireland and Switzerland.

      I note that he also teaches Master’s papers in Laws of Armed Conflict & International Humanitarian Law. Don’t let’s disparage the guy’s expertise just because he’s said something (or even many somethings) you don’t like.

      • veutoviper 3.2.1

        Thanks so much for posting this, red-blooded.

        That is an exceptional biography – and credentials over a range of fields. I knew that Gillespie had advised the NZ government on a number of international matters, but did not realise the extent of his experience and international recognition.

        And a big thanks, Bill, for saving it.

      • red-blooded 3.2.2

        Thanks for reinstating that comment, Bill.

      • Morrissey 3.2.3

        If credentials are what you judge a person by, then, yes, Alexander Gillespie is indeed a grand man. And, judging by his impressive credentials, so is another academic parrot of propaganda, Robert Patman of Otago University…

        Open mike 11/09/2013

        Also highly credentialled is one Condoleezza Rice, who instead of being in prison, is ensconsed in a nice sinecure at Stanford University.

        I judge Gillespie not by his credentials, but by his repeated failure to speak clearly about the things he’s allegedly an expert on. Perhaps the nadir was reached on one episode of The Panel in 2015, when he stated in high seriousness that “we” had to trust whatever the National Government told us about its secret TPPA negotiations, and then going on to top that classic by stating that the United States and Britain had “tried to bring democracy and freedom” to the Middle East….

        Open mike 04/09/2015

        • adam

          The voice of the middle class expert, how dare you call it into question Morrissey. Next you will be spouting socialist economics, arguing working people can sort out their own lives, and demanding that war criminals go to jail.

          No wait, sorry, yes you did say war criminals should go to jail. My bad…

  3. cleangreen 4


    Anything to do with discussion with Kathryn Ryan is littered with right wing policies, so these are old guard national supporters brought into RNZ by the last government and “carefully hand picked to continue to spout their gospel as Ryan still does faithfully and very willingly.

    I have complained to Broadcasting minister and Clare Curran refused to do anything about it and their “biased views.”

    Clare Curran needs to be removed from the broadcasting and digital portfolio and replaced by someone who does good work for her Party in Government for the people who supported labour and not give any help not for National as Curran seems to want to do all the time!!!!!!!

    • Morrissey 4.1

      I don’t think Ryan is a National supporter. Her problem is that she’s not very well informed, and so she’s easy pickings for the likes of Dame Ann Leslie….

      Open mike 18/08/2016

      Even no-hopers like Willem de Lange are too smart for her….

      Open mike 24/10/2013

      • OnceWasTim 4.1.1

        I tend to agree with you Math….. oops Morrissey.
        No doubt she attempts accuracy and non-partisan analysis of the ‘iss youse’.

        I’ve learned to forgive her over the years because she does make an effort and tries hard. A couple of years ago, I’d have said a ‘tryhard’, my father (who’d now be over 100 if still alive) would have said something like ‘a social-climbing wanker.

        I’m more charitable these days because she’s actually intelligent and capable – if a little overambitious, and you have to try to understand the bubble and culture within which she operates.

        But you know …… Hark at me judging her! (or anybody else for that matter). It’s becoming regular feature of some of the commenters on this site. Many times it’s all they contribute

        • Morrissey

          She does have her moments, I must admit. One day she lost all patience with Hooton and actually challenged him, which provoked him no end. Usually, however, she does no more than parrot what she’s heard on the BBC or skimmed over on the Guardian website. In other words, she’s the equivalent of John Campbell, except she doesn’t call everyone a “good bugger.”

        • veutoviper

          I don’t know whether you heard this a few days ago on Nine to Noon, but Ryan actually did a very good job as facilitator of a discussion last weekend in Wanaka between Jacinda Ardern and Mary Robinson, former President of Ireland and UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, on working for change at local, national and international levels.

          IMHO it was a half-hour well worth listening to. All three women were relaxed and interacting brilliantly.


          • OnceWasTim

            “IMHO it was a half-hour well worth listening to. All three women were relaxed and interacting brilliantly.”
            Agreed! Toetilly!

            Despite all that’s wrong with RNZ (stacked board et al), its actually bloody good with some really dedicated people (Rinny Ryan included).

            And although it can be criticised on a number of levels, it’s really all we’ve got.
            Alongside student radio, RNZ National , Concert and Pacific is really all I can bear listening to these days. I’d like to see The Wireless become an on air platform too. (I must be entering curmudgeonhood)

            I mean to say, Aunty BBC flounders, we can find fault with BobJazeera and DW, and RT, CCTV and others are easy targets.

            Each have some good people working for them. And when you’re in some of the most remote places on Earth (thankfully not too far from a powerful 4G cell tower), RNZ is absolutely the best when you’re addicted to news and current affairs. Matinee Idle ain’t too bad either

    • red-blooded 4.2

      cleangreen, the Broadcasting Minister has absolutely no power to intervene in hiring decisions for RNZ or to tell broadcasters what sort of opinions they should express or what sort of people they should interview. Would you have approved of the last Broadcasting Minister being able to do that? Of course not! So why do you demand it of Curran?

      I don’t think you’re being fair to Ryan, but even if you were, this would be totally irrelevant. Your demand is unreasonable and anti-democratic. The public media is there to represent all viewpoints, including those you don’t agree with, and there’s a very clear line between the responsibilities of the Broadcasting Minister (which relate to broadcasting policy, structural issues and resourcing) and the head and board of RNZ (who’re in charge of things like staffing, programming and planning for RNZ etc).

      If you want to complain about content, you’ve first got to go to the Board of RNZ, and then if you’re not satisfied you can complain to the Broadcasting Standards Authority. RNZ publicises this fact regularly, and it’s on their website. Be aware that the grounds for complaint are clearly specified, though, and disagreeing with political views isn’t one of them.

      • cleangreen 4.2.1

        red blooded please.

        Go to the RNZ board, shitnwe went to the CEO and got nowhere!!!!!! Got a letter to prove it. — Ha ha.

        The RNZ Board; – It is stacked with National appointees so don’t send bad information to us please red blooded please.

        Government need to grow balls and instead reinstate a new version of Channel Seven which the last labour government started back when they were with ‘balls.’

        • red-blooded

          cleangreen, I note you have no reply to my main point, which was that the Broadcasting Minister has no direct power over staffing our editorial content, and this separation of roles is crucial in a democracy.

          As for your “grow some balls” comment:
          1) How about finding a less gendered expression – especially when you are talking to a woman about another woman?
          2) What do you think the “RNZ+” policy is all about? It’s an attempt to have an independent state-funded public service TV channel. Pretty much what TVNZ 7 was, but with ongoing funding and run by the people who are responsible for RNZ, as the TVNZ people have proven many times that they’re not committed to public service. Maybe this policy is what we need, maybe it needs considerable development or even a change in direction, but it’s very definitely a step towards providing what you say you want.

          • veutoviper

            Well said, red blooded.

            Particular thanks for the point re less gendered expressions – as one woman to another woman. It seems some here think I tick the M box. LOL.

          • veutoviper

            Slightly off topic, but In case you missed it, you would probably really enjoy the discussion between Jacinda Ardern and Mary Robertson last weekend facilitated by Kathryn Ryan and played on Nine to Noon a few days ago. Have just put up the link at above but here it is again. Half an hour that was well worth it!


            • red-blooded

              Thanks, vv. I didn’t hear the original show, but I had seen this highlights piece. I wish I’d heard the original – maybe I’ll try to track it down.

              • veutoviper

                The link to listen to the 33 minute audio is in the RNZ article I linked to – the red circle with the white arrow.

                • red-blooded

                  Cool, thanks. I can’t have noticed it. I’ll listen in.

                • red-blooded

                  Well, gotta say – two very impressive women. As Kathryn Ryan pointed out, Robertson and Ardern are at different ends of their leadership careers, but it’s clear that they share similar values and they clearly respect and admire each other. I thought that was a great discussion.

              • veutoviper

                Oh no – I see what you mean! Brownlee – no, no, no.

                Will track it down after dinner – about to make my favorite fish curry. Yummy.

  4. AsleepWhileWalking 5



    I said (to HNZ), ‘you probably can’t help me because it’s not your issue,’ but they went into gear. I got one of the area managers and he said, ‘right this is no good you can’t be in there like you are’. He said, ‘I’ll get back to you’.”

    Very soon two HNZ representatives arrived to the home to inspect the door and came replete with food including buns, cold meats and chocolate.

    They organised a generator, spent more than an hour on the phone to Vector trying to organise repairs, and informed local police of McQuillan’s situation which promoted three welfare checks by the local constable.

    On Saturday morning HNZ called again, just to check on him.

    “They’ve gone above and beyond the call of duty,” McQuillan said.

    “I made one phone call and they have bent over backwards to try and help me. This is the first time I’ve been put in this situation thinking, ‘shit what do i do now?’ But people have helped out a lot.”

    • James 5.1

      What a good link !

      • adam 5.1.1


        • james

          Nope – excellent customer service from government employees.

          You know – there is good in people and in the world.

          If you open your eyes to it – you will be a happier and more well rounded person.

          • adam

            You obviously don’t deal with these services much, otherwise you see it for the propaganda piece that it is.

            Where is ventueviper when you need them on the personal attack front. Oh wait I’m a lefty, he only defends his rwnj mates.

            • veutoviper

              Wrong gender, adam. My birth certificates says female and I have had no reason to change that or want to.

              Re HNZ, from neighbours who work in HO HNZ, there is considerable change going on in HNZ, particular in the areas of re-education in relation to HNZ’s role, culture and customer service. So hopefully we will see lots more instances of the type of approach reported in the Herald article.

              And adam, I have had quite a lot of interaction with WINZ etc both in respect of my own situation (early retirement due to health problems, disabilities etc) over recent years, and previously prior to retirement, as a CAB volunteer advocate for people with health (physical/mental) and other problems with their interactions with WINZ, HNZ etc.

              From some of the things you have written, do I take it that you are now doing this type of volunteer/paid work?

    • Stunned mullet 5.2

      Well we’re quick to bag HNZ and the police but this is an example of outstanding care for a vulnerable member of the public.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1

        But this is one example of them doing good – we have several (hundreds, thousands?) every year of them doing the exact opposite.

        One good story doesn’t magically make all that they do wrong right. But to make it seem that way does seem to be why that story is even in the news.

        • Stunned Mullet

          As you may be aware good news is seldom news.

          There’s much good news about but the MSM and the public tend to concentrate on the depressing side of life and fluff such as royal weddings and PMs babies.

          • Draco T Bastard

            Yes, I know. Although, back in the early 1990s, the MSM followed US TV stations and started putting in the ‘human interest’ story as well. So you’d see articles about pets and flowers.

            This one seems to be part human interest (Disabled man helped by HNZ) and propaganda by telling us that a government SOE that’s been getting a lot of flak recently for their actions regarding homeless people and the selling of statehouses (Yes, a lot of that responsibility belongs to National unfortunately we have a tendency to focus on the people who actually do it rather than the people who order it done) is actually good.

    • cleangreen 5.3

      No-one would be treated in this kind, considered way if the NZ Housing agency was privatised would they?

    • patricia bremner 5.4

      Things are changing.

  5. veutoviper 7

    A bit of laugh which I think we all need at present. Poor Barry meets US Immigration.


    And daughter misses out on cheese rolls and Kiwi onion dip.

    • cleangreen 7.1

      veutoviper 7
      “A bit of laugh which I think we all need at present”

      So does the real truth of how the world is being pushed to war by your ‘champions’ offend you?

      • veutoviper 7.1.1


        In times of stress and tension, a little bit of humour or similar is recognised as a healthy and natural valve release – not as a denial or denigration of the much more serious matters causing the stress and tension.

        From your performance here this morning, you could do well with a bit of valve release of your own outrage, as you are accusing others here of all sorts of things you cannot back up.

        I have not made one comment back to any of your comments above re your views of the “truth” – or elsewhere on TS over recent times.

        In addition, I have not made one comment on TS in recent months on the very sad and disturbing events in Syria and in similar situations around the world, or on Trump, May, Macron, Assad etc or their governments’ actions in these situations.

        Why? Because I am trying to keep an open mind and not rush to judgement, and I don’t rush to my keyboard to do so on such serious matters.

        I have no “champions” when it comes to warmongering, bombing and/or use of chemical weapons on innocent people or similar, regardless of who they are or where they come from.

        So how you have determined that “does the real truth of how the world is being pushed to war by your ‘champions’ offend you?” beats me.

        Go face the problems and responses you have created for yourself elsewhere here.

    • James 7.2

      I love kiwi onion dip.

      And the odd cheese roll.

      • cleangreen 7.2.1

        Remember these goodies may soon be rationed when your welcomed in war begins James.

      • veutoviper 7.2.2

        So do I. I seriously considered making cheese rolls for breakfast, but stuck with cereal. Maybe lunch????? I’ve got some really thin wheatmeal sandwich bread that needs using up, plus onion soup mix, plus cheese …

        May as well use them up even if rationing is apparently coming ……………

      • OnceWasTim 7.2.3

        I’m still trying to come to terms with the egg roll. There seems to be a lot of them about and they dress up in all sorts of guises and names. Still learning though.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 7.2.4

        Rampant infestation today; James’ prolific comments (20 on Open Mike, and a sprinkling elsewhere) never leave me wanting more. The ‘onion dip’ evaluation could be his most valuable contribution to date, but where does he sit on spaghetti pizza?

        What word best describes James’ behaviour on this site? Based on his comments (and as others have observed), the Standard ‘stirrer‘ hat fits. Hope ‘stirrer James‘ isn’t too strong a ‘name call’ to deal with.

        “Also – Im pretty sure you [cleangreen] name call all the time – so again – How about trying to lead by example and stop that – and perhaps people might not do the same to you.” – James (@

        “Im going with both stupid and a liar.”
        “I dont want your perspective, chump.”
        “You keep getting more stupid.”
        “You realise how stupid you sound?” … “Moron.”
        “You realise how stupid you look right?”
        “You are an idiot.”
        “You are an idiot
        “I never said it did you moron.”
        “Its just ignorant, stupid and moronic…”
        “You can see how stupid that comes across right?”
        “Do you cut and paste your own bullshit?”
        “Now you just look like an idiot>/b>”
        idiots are not brave – they are morons.”

        “My point is calling some stupid, a moron etc (as a number of people in here have done about trump) when he is smarter then they are is ironic.”

        “And you are right – my BBQ is huge.”

        Stupid idiot morons; moronic stupid idiots; idiot moron ‘stupids’ – these are a few of James’ favourite things.

    • aom 7.3

      Barry Soper can’t stop over in US because of his trip to Iran with Obama’s golfing mate.

      • Stuart Munro 7.3.1

        “Do it, Iran, For like the hectic in my blood he rages,. And thou must cure me. Till I know ’tis done,. Howe’er my haps, my joys were ne’er begun.” ~ Hamlet

      • OnceWasTim 7.3.2

        ah…. now there really is an egg roll that’s not particularly tasty. I still can’t figure out whether it’s because it’s soaked in gin or whiskey or just duplicity

    • patricia bremner 7.4

      Yes, couldn’t happen to a nicer bloke, cough cough!!

      • veutoviper 7.4.1

        Think he needs some vitamin B12. LOL.

        Damn, just realised today was an injection day, but its now too late as I can’t sleep if I do it later than 12pm. The joys of Pernicious Anaemia.

        • patricia bremner

          Going for our shingles vac. Recommended even though I had shingles 3 years ago. It apparently can re-occur. I sure would’t want that!! After seeing that, N is being brave!! xx

          • veutoviper

            Shingles can reoccur as I know, although the second time mine was much less serious than the first time.
            You would be amazed at how easy doing your own intramuscular injections are into the thigh muscles. Painless once you know what to do, far nicer than top of arm ones. And I have to have them every 10 days or so, and can do them from start to finish in about one minute, even though the B12 does not come in preloaded needle pens like insulin. And it saves me about 1 – 2 hours to doctors and back, and then $25 – $30 per injection. Just part of everyday life now – and I am in control, thanks to a great doctor.

          • Macro

            Yes Patricia – make sure you get it – I had mine just the other day and no problems. I too had shingles a few years back – and a friend of mine had a second attack just recently and is now blind in one eye.
            It used to cost $200 but is now free for seniors.

            • veutoviper

              Thanks for that information about the shingles vac now being free to seniors, Macro. I looked at it a year ago but could not afford it. Will check with my doctors.

              Also thanks for the information re the Greens Values. I could not reply directly to you on the other thread and did not want to derail that thread further.

              My interest was that I thought that the Values also included things like this:

              “Let’s be clear. The Greens love debate. We love hearing the views of New Zealanders. Indeed, one of our core Green principles is appropriate decision making/whakarite totika, something that only happens when you listen to others speaking. On the other hand, our values also mean that we should:

              engage respectfully, without personal attacks,
              actively respect cultural and individual diversity and celebrate difference,
              enable participation with dignity, and challenge oppression, and
              foster compassion, a sense of humour and mutual enjoyment in our work… “

              That was supposedly a quote from the GP website back in July 2016 – but quoted on Kiwiblog in relation to the decision by the GP to no longer allow comments of the GP blog. So, obviously was trying to check that this quote was from the GP website!

              But the principles /behaviours in the quote are ones that I, for one, would like to see more on here at TS.

              • Macro

                I haven’t visited the Green Blog site for some time because (I suspect due to lack of moderation) there were a number of people who were quite strident in their “views” – not always values shared by Greens – and they were quite disruptive to sensible discussion.

                • veutoviper

                  Thanks so much for your replies here and below. I really appreciate them. Certain other people connected to the Party have not appeared here for a few days …

                  As you suggest, the situation you describe above appears to be exactly the reason made in July 2016 (apparently led by Marama Davidson) to disallow comments on the GP blog. Unfortunately the stridency etc seems to have moved to here on the part of a small few (but by no means a majority or all) GP members/voters but including one or two in positions of power. Enough said, but some behaviours seems to be way out of whack with these Values etc and similar to what you expressed about a week ago wrt commenting on world events, but also in relation to coalition partners and their voters (such as me as a dastardly two tick Labour voter in 2017 but previously one L and one G*) as well as those who have other political views.

                  Just a case of deciding how to use this info re values and their application wisely in a constructive – not critical/abusive – way here, and not cop an involuntary holiday. One can but try.

                  * Not anti-MT or anti- Green, far from it; but was appalled by the lack of political nous and risk management on the part of decision makers in deciding to use (or agreeing to use) her back story in the beneficiaries campaign when there were well known fish hooks in that back story likely to surface – eg the relationship to Ann Hartley and family, and their financial circumstances etc. Sadly MT was the biggest loser of that decision.

            • veutoviper

              Sorry, me again re Greens. Would love your peer review that I have got the following right.

              The Ten Values you quoted seem to be the same as these from the Green Party of the US – so i take it these are the same for the NZ GP?


              I have also now found the quote in my earlier message above which is in fact from this GP blog post on the closing off of comments in July 2016:


              The link under the words “our core Green principles” took me to the Green Charter with its four principles of: Ecological Wisdom: Social Responsibility: Appropriate Decision-making: Non-Violence.

              So is it the case that while the website is undergoing some renovation, the Charter with its four principles and the ten Values have not changed?

              And that the quote from the 2016 blog post is still relevant (broadly anyway) in terms of its hopes/expectations of respectful engagement without attacks, active respect of diversity and difference, dignity etc ?

              Sorry to put you on the spot. If you are uncomfortable commenting, just let me know and I will send an email to the GP. Probably should do that anyway, but would appreciate an indication as to whether I am making wrong assumptions etc.

              • Macro

                Sorry for the slow reply. You have it correct veutoviper. The ten values are essentially shared by all Greens parties world wide, however the founding document of the NZ Greens is the charter which states:

                The charter is the founding document of The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand.

                The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand accepts Te Tiriti o Waitangi as the founding document of Aotearoa New Zealand; recognises Maori as Tangata Whenua in Aotearoa New Zealand, and commits to the following four Principles:

                Ecological Wisdom
                Social Responsibility
                Appropriate Decision-making

                The emphasis on Te Tiriti is obviously unique to NZ and all policy must also take into account just how that fits with Ti Triti.
                Appropriate decision making would obviously include hopes/expectations of respectful engagement without attacks, active respect of diversity and difference, dignity etc with the objective of working towards a consensus.

  6. Observer Tokoroa 8

    To: Sacha
    Yours was a good Question !

    “Given the pushback now over stopping oil exploration in 30 years, what messages should the left be promoting about NZ’s transition to low-carbon employment? ”

    Apart from trying to slow down relentless Climate Change which national politicians and corporations do not believe in, the transition from filthy Fossil Fuel to Electricity will have a profoundly good affect on human health.

    Burning Oil (Diesel) and (Petroleum) produce Toxic Particulates that enter the bios of living things. Even the very smallest of Particulates are a danger.

    Young children mostly suffer from the Toxicity, as do older persons. Although age groups in between are not exempt. There are many studies. Some find that early Stroke may be a product of Diesel and Petrol. These Toxins are profoundly evil. Urbanites are most affected.

    I can imagine that within a relatively few years there will be massive claims for compensation laid against promoters of Diesel and Petrol – such as Simon Bridges. The Oil Explorers; Producers; Retailers and their Corporations and lawyers will be cited and held to account.

    So Sacha. You obviously know you can do a fair bit with electricity via the Sun. It transits safely and purely down to panels. Not Heat. Light. Okay

    For extensive hard tack Info : Google Health issues of Diesel and Petroleum

    • cleangreen 8.1

      Yes Observer Tokoroa,


      So why are the bastions of trucking pushing for using more roads for trucks now that the real scientific proof that diesel emissions are poisonous carcinogen polluting vehicles to residents in cities and built up areas????


      These truck lobbyists like Road Freight Forum (RTF) spokesman Ken Shirey should be sanctioned now and be shut down in the interest of “public health” as this man now is requesting trucks be allowed to use the Kaimai Tunnel through from Tauranga to Auckland too???? We should be using rail not bloody roads.

      I am sick of trucks more trucks and yet more trucks. When the hell can they stop this nonsense.

      It may bring tolls to get funding but the trucks will still go through suburbs in all areas out of this tunnel so we all will just get poisoned by yet more trucks, so we oppose this use of a rail route that could be used rather than a road for trucks..


      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 8.1.1

        Your an authoritarian little prick aren’t you? You are so miserable you can’t even have someone who possesses an opinion different to yours express it. Let people decide for themselves if a road users lobby group is right or wrong.

        • Gabby

          They’re wrong tuppy.

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury

            So? They should be denied a voice under “public health” auspices? Toeing an awfully facist line there gabby. Good to know you support such actions. Must feel good being able to brush the brown shirt off

    • Sacha 8.2

      Thanks, Observer. Health is an angle I haven’t heard much but it’s definitely something that touches everyone.

      • cleangreen 8.2.1

        Yes it does so Sacha read this;

        We attended a Gisborne District Council “pre-hearing” meeting for Eastland Port’s log berth expansion plans.
        A few community members’ continuing submissions were heard at this pre-hearing at the Waikanae Surf Life Saving Club, before “secret” Chatham House Rules applied.
        Our submitter was ignored during earlier submissions, saying the planned expansion should be made under the usual “regional plan change”, rather than a Resource Management Act application.
        The aim is to have the process made transparent, and allow the community to have their right to make changes to the way the port operates in future, in a more environmentally responsible manner.
        Transportation of logs to the port almost 24 hours a day is a major concern, with the bulk of submitters voicing opposition to the industrial noise generated. Many were losing sleep.
        Past submissions to GDC on logging truck noise may have been overlooked.
        We made a strong case after receiving a petition in 2011-12 from the Esplanade community group, signed by 280 people, asking GDC to mitigate against the excessive noise, vibration and air pollution of port-bound logging trucks.
        The pre-hearing chairman, GDC’s consents manager, may wish to consider our submitter’s push for a regional plan change scenario rather than the restrictive, secretive process Eastland Community Trust-owned Eastland Port appears to prefer.
        Does Eastland Port care about wider community impacts of negative noise, vibration and air pollution from its “industrial activities in a built environment”? If not, can GDC encourage ECT and its company to be environmentally and socially responsible?
        As former residents of Napier before settling in Gisborne in 2005, our community there suffered similar problems to what Eastland Port is causing. Fourteen suburban communities surrounding Port of Napier have truck noise, vibrations and air pollution from export freight being carried to the port.
        Our groups there have met with Napier Port executives at their boardroom, receiving a strong level of support from the port company over these issues.
        So we are surprised ECT and Eastland Port are not reciprocating with suburban communities surrounding their port. Are they worried about criticism from the wider community of Gisborne?
        Since 2002 my wife and I have operated an environmental monitoring company, that has partnered with government agencies as well as Watercare and Niwa. Our company has reviewed Eastland Port’s “independent environmental assessment” report and we have several concerns.
        Many communities around New Zealand suffer from truck traffic to ports. A new method of measuring “industrial noise” is warranted, as used by the World Health Organisation and the European Union. The monitoring of residential urban noise, vibration and air pollution from truck freight is a long debate now which we will take up again with GDC/ECT.
        We support the request made by Winston Morton to change the port’s application to a more inclusive, far less secretive procedure.
        The port, with its narrow focus “only inside the port noise zone”, is restricting residents from seeking mitigation to the negative truck effects of noise, vibration and air pollution.
        Our other submitter at the GDC pre-hearing was Rail Action Group chairwoman who expressed the wish that Eastland Port consider rail to move logs to its wharves.
        We support rail freight to ports around New Zealand, which was the plan in the Labour government policy from 2004 called NZ National Rail Strategy to 2015.
        The new Labour-led Government has committed to the transition to a low-carbon or a net-zero carbon economy.
        So the Government needs to get our rail line reopened, and to plan to electrify the rail service.

        Save lives with rail freight lowering ‘truck gridlock.’

        • james

          Its rude to post a ton of text without formatting or giving a link.

          • cleangreen

            Wrong again dude;

            As this was our “comment” to a submission to GDC hearings panel!!!

            This shifty hearing was attempted to be done under the “Chatham rules” so this was my comments after that hearing.

            Am I not allowed to comment on council activities now?

            if so why? – Are you attempting to push for “Chatham rules” to apply here too?

            • James

              Of course you should be allowed to comment on council activities.

              It was hard to tell it was your submission as it was simply a great big wall of text.

              Formatting helps makes it more readable.

              Question – is the council working to appease the dark lord Satan as you linked to earlier?

              • cleangreen

                “Formatting helps makes it more readable.”

                James you hardly read by scrips however we write them.

                Not once have you agreed with anything we have ever said so please do not instruct us how to write our blogs unless you promise to read and consider every word.

                Fair enough?

          • patricia bremner

            Did you read it James?

    • patricia bremner 8.3

      1000% Asthma sufferers especially.

  7. Janet 9

    The proposed amendment to Education Act 1989 to restrict the use of the title of “teacher” to people who have completed certain recognized qualifications.
    I would continue to “teach” in the area of my speciality and experience because “teacher” is a widely used generic English word and cannot be successfully hijacked to specifically apply to a person who has gained “ certain recognized qualifications”
    The term “registered teacher” already does this.
    “Registered Teachers” should be freely registered and administered by the New Zealand Education Department ( they are not now ) as an integral part of undertaking the public service of providing education to New Zealanders.
    What do others think?

    • red-blooded 9.1

      I’m a trained and registered teacher and I entirely agree with the bill. It clearly specifies that it is referring only to classroom teachers in schools (not ballet teachers, or swimming teachers, or tertiary lecturers or tutors) and is delineating the difference between qualified, trained, registered teachers and others, like teacher aides or people working in charter schools with no teacher training or registration.

      Nat governments have a history of attacking the professional status of teachers (usually linked to cost-cutting) and following governments have to tidy up. The Bolger govt abolished teacher registration (linked to bulk funding). Many schools hired (cheaper) unqualified people and when the Clark govt reinstated registration they had to spend big bucks to train and improve the qualifications of those people so that they were eligible for registration. Some couldn’t meet the standard and left teaching.

      The Key govt restructured the registration (and discipline) boards, removing teacher representation and nearly doubling the cost to teachers (from $280 every 3 years to $520) while allowing totally unqualified, unregistered people to be hired as teachers in charter schools. This govt is tidying up, again. They’re reinstating teacher reps, defining what is meant by “teacher” in a school situation and reassessing all charter schools. Some will become schools of special character – ie, integrated schools, some might close down. None will be allowed to use anyone with a pulse as a teacher.

      • patricia bremner 9.1.1

        1000% redblooded.

      • Janet 9.1.2

        So why cannot a teacher in a classroom in a school be a “registered teacher” or even as we used to say a “school teacher” which differentiates from someone who is teaching for example a craft in their own studio?

        • red-blooded

          How does this bill (which applies only to people working in schools) hurt you in any way, Janet?

          • Janet

            Thats what I was trying to ascertain. If it applies to only someone working in a school fine but sometimes I am employed to teach my craft in a school – then am I not a “teacher” ?

    • patricia bremner 9.2

      I think the “Hijack” occurs when the term teacher is used loosely.

      Dr. Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Professor, all have specific meanings. There should be recognised titles to match in teaching IMO.

      • Incognito 9.2.1

        Dr. Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, Professor, all have specific meanings.

        Not quite as it depends on context and locality. For example, what does it mean to you when somebody uses the title “Dr.”?

        • Draco T Bastard

          For example, what does it mean to you when somebody uses the title “Dr.”?

          Absolutely nothing as the term is so ambiguous. Anyone with a doctorate degree is properly called doctor.

          • Incognito

            Indeed, although in some jurisdictions/countries the title is legally protected and can only be used by people who have obtained a doctorate at an approved academic institution.

        • patricia bremner

          Incognito, should have written Doctor (PhD) from the latin “to teach”
          Perhaps you are asking Dr. (medical?) MD?

          • Incognito

            Sorry, I may have been unclear; I was asking because you asserted that these titles have “specific meanings” and you’ve answered my question, which shows that they are not so specific after all 😉

            In NZ there is no such thing as Assistant Professor.

            • patricia bremner

              My bad. Meant as in Assistant Teacher, Associate Teacher, School Teacher.
              The word specific was, I agree a poor choice.

    • JanM 9.3

      Well that’s ok as long as you can happily apply the name of ‘dentist’ to anyone who can pull a tooth out.
      There is a sense in which ‘teacher’ is generic, but it should not be applied as the formal title of a person untrained in the skills of teaching.

  8. Philip Ferguson 10

    Links to very interesting set of articles produced by the Health Sector Workers Network, a rank-and-file cross-union project:

  9. Philip Ferguson 11

    “In France the Macron Government has set in motion plans for the destruction of the terms and conditions of approximately 150,000 workers in the national rail network, the Société Nationale des Chemins de Fer (SNCF). The level of workers’ anger has produced an impressive response. The major unions involved have been forced into putting forward plans for industrial action and in a show of unity 13 organisations on the left have presented a joint statement of solidarity. . .”

    full at: https://rdln.wordpress.com/2018/04/14/french-public-sector-workers-fighting-back/

    There seems to be a good amount of determined resistance to Macron.

    • Sacha 11.1

      Bravo. Unlike NZ in the 80s and 90s, the French unions will not roll over for their tummies to be stroked.

      • millsy 11.1.1

        This is how the baby boomers got a lot of their wealth – the generous redundancy payments allowed a lot of those workers to pay off their mortgages, and start their own businesses, allowing them to leap into the burgeiouse class.

        • KJT

          Except for a majority. Who never had a decent secure full time job again.
          Not of course those owning houses in Auckland.
          The ones with underpaid lawn mowing rounds, truck owners who cannot take home minimum wage, labour hire company workers and all the rest of the “fortunate” boomers who were forced into a shrinking job market with skills unwanted in the brave new “service economy”.

  10. cleangreen 12

    Yes Phillip – we have private french rail company now running Auckland’s Passenger rail system (with may funds given by the national Government during the last few years.)

    We need all public owned “essential services” not these money grabbing privateers coming to feed off of government handouts.

  11. Anne 13

    Am looking forward to James Comey’s book:


    And this is just the curtain raiser. The main show has yet to come.

    • cleangreen 13.1

      Actually yes it will be a best seller obviously.

      I do see that Bernie sanders is challenging Trump for his right to bomb the targets in Syria without the Congress approval so there are lots of legs to go here.

      • Anne 13.1.1

        I especially love the video of Sarah Huckabee-Sanders attempted assassination of Comey’s character. Very funny… but not so funny when you think she’s just one of many seriously unhinged nut-jobs who currently inhabit the White House.

      • mary_a 13.1.2

        @ Cleangreen (13.1) … yep, go Bernie, man of the people. Be interesting how his challenge is responded to! Good to see Bernie out there, taking on the mad dangerous rabid Trump.

  12. cleangreen 15

    veutoviper 7.1.1

    You appear to choose the narrative that you are beholding to a higher order of humanity and understanding but then you are also a capping critic of others on your own moral grounds perhaps?

    So I don’t buy your narrative that you are always on the absolute right and all others you don’t wish to agree with are not.

    We all are human and as so err in judgement from time to time alten called “human error”.

    What incites many is the ” “Holier-than-thou”. mannerism some show.

    Everyone needs to allow others to “speak their minds” without consistent attacks upon them as we see here often now.

    Some have said it was generated by the “sore losers from the national party supporters”
    I am still not 100% ready to believe this, but there is an element of deep hate in some we ‘encounter now’.

    I will continue to speak my mind and not be guided by your comments or others who criticise me.

    • James 15.1

      “Everyone needs to allow others to “speak their minds” without consistent attacks upon them as we see here often now.”

      It’s true – see your own attacks as evidence.

      But yes we should be able to speak our minds – but when you make statements like today linking the following under the heading of a factual document I think it is only fair that you get called out.

      ““Their goal is nothing less than total enslavement of the human race through mind control, police state laws, population culling, and constant tracking. All of this will be done to please the Dark Lord himself: Satan”

      • cleangreen 15.1.1

        See my comment on

        You first initiated the attacks on us way back so don’t cry wolf now.

    • veutoviper 15.2


      I stand by what I said to you at 7.1.1. This was simply querying why you had made a snide assumption about my beliefs, ‘champions ‘etc when as I pointed out, I have made no comments on TS which could have led you to that wrong assumption.

      I did not call you names, or question your beliefs, or make any form of attack on you – other than to point out you had been in full flight today in making such type of comments about a lot of people here today.

      Yes you have a right to speak your mind – just as the rest of us have. I did not question your right to do so.

      Call it ‘holier than thou’ if you wish. I am also human and subject to human error etc, but I have decided that I am going to try to not join in the personal accusations, insults and attacks that seem to happen here too often these days.

      Be assured I am more than capable! And when I do, I don’t play around – I go straight for the jugular, as my friends and family love reminding me.

      But also be assured that when I am the subject of such accusations, attacks etc, I will stand up for myself, and for others, when I considered it appropriate.

      And as a PS – isn’t self-moderation by commenters what some of the moderators here have been calling for to take pressure off of these volunteers who give of their time and energy freely to keep this blog available to us all?

      • adam 15.2.1

        For a right wing tool, you do pathos well.

        • veutoviper

          As in the case of your misunderstanding the other day of slander, libel and defamation (and their relationship under NZ law), I suggest that you brush up on your understanding of the meanings of ‘ethos’, logos’ and ‘pathos’ – in the case of ‘logos’ in a Greek sophist sense, not the later theological sense.

      • cleangreen 15.2.2


        As i have just said to James; – you also along with others consistently teamed up to harass others who have opposing views.

        For the record go back and see who attacked who first; – to see that you as part of a a group that have consistently attacked others like minded as we are, and have attempted to hound us and them off the TS site and it was very apparent.

        If you cease your attacks, then you won’t receive retaliation;

        That is fair enough for us; – and should be for you if you are of human character as you profess to be.

        [Take the rest of the day “away”. Thank you. I’m done with this nonsense. It seems a few polite requests have been ignored.] – Bill

  13. Morrissey 16

    Supporters of the “surgical strike” on Syria
    No. 1: Britain’s Donald Trump, AKA Boris Johnson.

    Supporters of the “surgical strike” on Syria is a series devoted to publicizing the moral titans and inspiringly brave souls who have loudly supported the Paris/London/Washington axis. It is compiled by Morrissey Breen, for Daisycutter Sports, Inc.

  14. red-blooded 18

    To the moderators: I’ve tried twice now to reply to a comment from Morrissey. I don’t seem to be getting through. Any ideas what’s happened to my comments? I’m on a new machine, but my log-in details haven’t changed.

    I note I’m able to post this comment. If there’s a version of my previous reply stored somewhere in the system, I’d appreciate it being added to the thread. It related to Al Gillespie (at 3, above).

    • Morrissey 18.1

      I’ll keep an eye out for that reply, my friend. Don’t worry: these technical issues arise occasionally.

    • Bill 18.2

      I cut and pasted from the trash folder and re-submitted under my log-in, but have clearly indicated it’s your comment.

      I don’t know why it went trash side. Gremlins. There is a very convoluted process that I could have gone through had I the time and the memory to remember exactly what it is.

      Hope what I’ve done suffices.

      It dropped in at 3.2

      Open Mike 15/04/2018

  15. Morrissey 19

    Supporters of the “surgical strike” on Syria
    No. 4: Vice-President Mike Pence

    This moral Leviathan points out that bombing Syria is the “morally right act to take.”

    Supporters of the “surgical strike” on Syria is a series devoted to publicizing the moral titans and inspiringly brave souls who have loudly supported the Paris/London/Washington axis. It is compiled by Morrissey Breen and james, for Daisycutter Sports, Inc.

    No. 3 Jacinda Ardern
    No. 2 Justin Trudeau
    No. 1 Boris Johnson

    • Stunned Mullet 19.1

      How about a ‘Critics of the “surgical strike” on Syria’ Moz, you could run them concurrently for some interesting juxtaposition.

  16. Jenny 20

    Resilient Auckland?


    In fact Auckland’s infrastructure has been shown to be surprisingly fragile.

    Tuesday’s storm was only a minor event compared to what’s coming.

    In the face of climate change turbo powered storms, Auckland will need to harden up its infrastructure if it is to become anywhere near ‘resilient’.

    Emergency services will continue to make welfare checks on Auckland residents in the aftermath of Tuesday night’s storm, with thousands of people still without power on Sunday.


    if we are to make Auckland a truly Resilient City.

    What are the options?

    Who’s gonna pay?

    Will it be more profitable (ie more expensive), to just to keep fixing it up when it breaks? ie the ‘Disaster Capitalism’ model.


    • Jenny 20.1

      The New Normal

      “Auckland residents could face another week without power following storm”

      At least 500 Auckland households and businesses are still without power, but it could be next weekend before they get electricity restored.

      Earlier on Sunday thousands of homes in Auckland had been powerless after Tuesday night’s severe storm, leaving residents frustrated.



      Why has this occurred?

      Why is our city so vulnerable?

      This was not a big storm.

      Can anyone remember, when a not that severe a storm, destroyed so much of the city’s power infrastructure?

      Are there any plans to harden our city’s infrastructure against such future events?

      Will the Council and the Government take this as a warning of worse things to come?

      Are there any plans in place to prevent a repeat?

  17. joe90 21

    Talk about tipping your hand……

    Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Friday that his country had strong evidence that the bombing of the Syrian city of Douma with a chemical weapon was merely a staged “ploy” and warned that any military escalation would be followed by a major wave of immigration to Europe.

    Speaking at a news conference in Moscow with his Dutch counterpart Stef Blok, Lavrov clarified that the intelligence of one of the countries involved in the anti-Russian campaign was behind the chemical attack on Douma.

    The Russian minister warned that any “venture” in Syria that is similar to what happened in Iraq and Libya “will entail new waves of immigration to Europe and other repercussions that we and our European partners do not want.”

    Lavrov’s comments appear to be an implicit threat of escalating the strikes against Syrian civilians in order to force them to flee to Europe.


    • Poission 21.1

      Far more likely is a bevy of leaked videos, of conservative MP”s in diapers being beaten by “nursey” appearing in the London tabloids.

      • joe90 21.1.1

        In 2016, Helsinki accused the Kremlin and its intelligence services of flooding Finland with refugees as a political weapon to destabilize Europe.

        So there’s good reason to take Lavrov at his word.

        KANDALAKSHA, Russia — So many decrepit Soviet-era cars carried migrants into Europe from this frozen Russian town in recent months that border officials in Finland, who confiscate the rust-bucket vehicles as soon as they cross the frontier, watched in dismay as their parking lot turned into a scrapyard.

        To clear up the mess and provide some space for freshly confiscated cars, the Finnish customs service set up a separate dumping ground.

        Then last month, as suddenly and as mysteriously as it had started, the parade of migrants in rusty old cars came to an abrupt halt, or at least a pause.

        “We don’t know what is going on,” said Matti Daavittila, the head of the ice-entombed Finnish border post near Salla. “They suddenly stopped coming. That is all we know.”


        The intrigue flows from a growing suspicion in the West that Russia is stoking and exploiting Europe’s migrant crisis to extract concessions, or perhaps crack the European unity over economic sanctions imposed against Moscow for its actions in Ukraine. Only one of the European Union’s 28 member states needs to break ranks for a regime of credit and other restrictions to collapse.

        “Unfortunately, this looks like a political demonstration by Russia,” said Ilkka Kanerva, Finland’s former foreign minister and now the chairman of its parliamentary Defense Committee. “They are very skillful at sending signals. They want to show that Finland should be very careful when it makes its own decisions on things like military exercises, our partnership with NATO and European Union sanctions” against Russia.


        • Grafton Gully

          Russian support for Serbia lead to WW1, a non-aggression pact with Nazi Germany enabled WW 2 and its atomic weapons program stoked the Cold War. More of the same.

          • McFlock

            To be fair, none of those were all Russia’s fault by any stretch of the imagination.

            If it takes two to tango, it takes a solid half dozen to do a glabally-catastrophic barn dance.

  18. Ad 22

    Kiwi Women’s Sevens get Gold!

  19. joe90 23


    omg this is amazing pic.twitter.com/TOlAIKvPl5— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) April 14, 2018

  20. Muttonbird 24

    She’s showing real leadership here and something which really touches on the proud tradition of independent thought by progressive NZ PMs.

    UN vetoes are one thing holding the UN back and making it ineffectual which is what the UN is always criticised for.


  21. Ed 25

    We are stuffed.

    ‘Avoid Gulf stream disruption at all costs, scientists warn

    How close the world is to a catastrophic collapse of giant ocean currents is unknown, making halting global warming more critical than ever, scientists say’


  22. joe90 26

    Dude born and raised in Austria by Afghan parents must be CIA Zionist Islamist imperialist plant.


    Today, several protests took place in German cities. On one side you had pro-revolution Syrians, incl. many refugees. On the other side you had white, "anti-war", "anti-imperialist" folks, denying Assad's crimes, supporting Russian bombs & lecturing Syrians about their country.— Emran Feroz (@Emran_Feroz) April 14, 2018

    Mostly it's like that:Syrian: "I lost everything. My relatives were tortured and killed. Now I'm a refugee." Tankie: "It's not like you think. Situation is complex. Why are you pro-CIA? Islamists, Al Qaeda, ISIS! It's all about the pipeline. You are a puppet."— Emran Feroz (@Emran_Feroz) April 14, 2018

    Other example:Syrian: "Russia and Iran act like imperialist powers in my country."Tankie: "Fake news. They defend themselves against US imperialism and they are legitimate allies of the Syrian government. Are you a Zionist?"— Emran Feroz (@Emran_Feroz) April 15, 2018

    Next one makes clear how widespread the propaganda is:Syrian: "Assad kills innocent people daily. He bombed schools and hospitals and used chemical weapons."Tankie: "Who is your source? The terrorist White Helmets? They are Al Qaeda!"— Emran Feroz (@Emran_Feroz) April 15, 2018

    • McFlock 26.1

      We can know nothing, therefore we must assume nothing, therefore we must do nothing, and be angry at those who do anything.

  23. The AM Show well we won 46 medals that’s excellent many thanks to all the athletes at the Common Wealth Games not everyone can be a winner Kia kaha
    I had a busy day yesterday the vac pump in the cowshed would not start and I had to mow in Tauranga so this put me behind by 3 hours the sandflys there are idiots swarming but keep there distance .I was on the go till 8 pm .
    Yes that is raciest the two brown men arrested in Star Bucks Amercia waiting for there
    M8 just sitting at the table. Most people are raciest alot are in denial of this fact I know a lot of people that I have associated with that are raciest ka kite ano

    • eco maori 27.1

      Newshub good on Jacinda for not using the words support for that missile attack on Syria and saying she understands the (reason why the missile used to attack Syria) .
      Many thanks to James Comey the ex FBI Director having the——- to tell exactly what he thinks of trump.On the Star Bucks issue in America there a lot of brown people inpower who are white onthe inside they are racies that the way the systems shape there views on reality .
      Thats a good move that Sam Niel is acting in it shows that people need to respect all cultures . On my trip home to the Waiapu vally I learnt a lot Im self taught in everything I know .I was not going to go because of Gisbone mans influence but I new that was a very important occasion 1 in a hundred year occasion so I overrode my fears and went I new that nothing would happen at that point in time there were still actors there to I will forgive them but I wont trust them.Kia kaha ka kite ano

      • eco maori 27.1.1

        The Crowd Goes Wild Mulls and James Ivan Major is a great Kiwi Legend for motocycle speedway he won 6 world titles condolences to his family.
        Many thanks to NZ Rugby Union for acknowledging the Ladies New Zealand 7 team.
        Kronfeld looks ok wresting I wont comment on his outfit .
        ka kite ano P.S The Ladies black sticks did us proud Mana Wahine.

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