Open mike 16/02/2023

36 comments on “Open mike 16/02/2023 ”

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1. SPC 1

   16 February 2023 at 8:01 am

   The First Minister of Scotland is to resign. She became SNP leader after defeat of the independence campaign in a referendum in 2014.

   The SNP is holding a special conference next month to decide on its immediate future after the UK Supreme Court last year blocked any chance of another referendum.

   The UK government also recently blocked self ID legislation

   Hailed as a landmark by transgender rights activists, the legislation faced opposition from some SNP members who said it ignored the need to protect single-sex spaces for women, such as domestic violence shelters and rape crisis centres.

   While the Scottish parliament approved the legislation, it has been blocked by the British government because it would present problems for authorities in other parts of the UK, where a medical diagnosis is needed before individuals can transition for legal purposes.

   Sturgeon had vowed to take the British government to court, arguing that Prime Minister Rishi Sunak’s administration had made a “profound mistake” by vetoing the legislation.

   And faced the same defeat as they did with another referendum in the UK Supreme Court.

   https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/reports-scottish-leader-nicola-sturgeon-to-resign-after-8-years/4BP7LLGQGRGFDCOLCJLCQIE2S4/
   • weka 1.1

     16 February 2023 at 8:09 am

     Wow. Massive own goal from the SNP leading to this. But kudos to the gender critical people in the UK, particularly gender critical feminists, for forcing Sturgeon’s hand. Watershed moment.
   • weka 1.2

     16 February 2023 at 8:21 am

     Hard to know if this will be an issue in the NZ general election, personally I hope both sides don’t kick off, there are more important things to be doing. But it’s important to understand just how fucked off many women are, and many men not far behind. It was grassroots feminist movements that called Sturgeon to account.

     https://twitter.com/shonaghdillon/status/1625807775069618178
     • SPC 1.2.1

       16 February 2023 at 8:39 am

       UK law was better than Scotland's self ID legislation. It was a silly issue to parade Scotland as more progressive/better governance on. The people’s safety is part of the social contract.
       • Sabine 1.2.1.1

         16 February 2023 at 9:06 am

         And that is why we have currently one violent male doing time in a female prison.
         https://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/130471744/restaurant-triple-stabber-jailed-for-nine-years-and-three-months

         Cause his rapid onset gender dysphoria brought on by prison time would make him less safe in the male prison, as neither the corrections department nor the government will ever do something to make male prisons safe for all male offenders. That would be hard work. So locking dudes up with females is easy and cheap and these females would not be a risk to someone who is doing time for attacking three diners with a knife, slashing his ex girlfriend and her friends whilst out for a nice evening.
         Oh and chances are that that is a crime attributed to females.

         So kind.
     • Liberty Belle 1.2.2

       16 February 2023 at 11:30 am

       Oh but according to Sturgeon "this decision is not a reaction to short-term pressures", and “This decision comes from a deeper and longer term assessment,” .

       Bollocks. I wish her well, but she has reaped what she sowed.
       • weka 1.2.2.1

         16 February 2023 at 11:38 am

         it's probably both tbf. But it's very hard to believe that the last few weeks weren't a major tipping point.

         I also think we should be listening to women talking about how brutal politics is. Because it is, and it doesn't have to be.

         Will be interesting to see if the SNP replace her with someone also as set on self ID.
         • Sabine 1.2.2.1.1

           16 February 2023 at 11:48 am

           When reality meets ideology. I think that was the defining moment that she would rather had not been filmed.

           https://twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1620051699900755970?cxt=HHwWhMDRpYGcyvssAAAA
           • weka 1.2.2.1.1.1

             16 February 2023 at 11:56 am

             it would be hard to maintain political or even personal integrity after that. It's also possible that her ideology just collapsed.
             • Sabine …

               16 February 2023 at 1:09 pm

               https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11753779/Nicola-Sturgeon-dodges-questions-SNP-CEO-husband-Peter-Murrell-quits-Minister.html
               and the inquiries into her husbands shady dealings with money.

               hopefully the same will happen now here in nz that some of those that would declare any male a women above any female who says he ain’t will have their moment of clarity, but frankly we might need our own dangerous rapist males to be send to female prisons moment of what the fuck are we doing here?.
2. Molly 2

   16 February 2023 at 9:02 am

   The number of unaccounted people rise as thunderstorm warnings are issued for Hawkes Bay and Gisborne.

   Taking stock of the losses and tragedies of this cyclone is going to be a long and difficult process.
   • weka 2.1

     16 February 2023 at 10:05 am

     I was thinking about this today. How long is it since the warning of Cyclone Gabrielle? It's been a week at least that people have had to be preparing and on alert. And that on top of the one a few weeks before.

     A lot of people will be in shock, not just those in the thick of it.
   • Anne 2.2

     16 February 2023 at 11:02 am

     From the sidebar:

     Hopefully these tragic weather events, one by one, year after year, will finally force New Zealand’s ratepayers, voters, community groups, and white conservative men into advocating for systemic, legislative change that will have an impact on the biggest problem of our age – one that is raining down on all of us.

     https://www.greaterauckland.org.nz/2023/02/16/expressways-and-resilience/

     I blame the CC deniers. They began their crusade to discredit CC and denigrate the climate experts around the world in the 1980s. Each country had its group of 'leading deniers' who held positions of influence and were able to fool countless millions of people into believing CC was a hoax.

     They reigned for decades because successive governments around the world didn't have the inclination to stand up to them. Two names come immediately to mind in NZ – Leighton Smith ( Newstalk ZB host) and John Boscowen (ACT Party list MP). There were others but imo these two were the most influential deniers.

     The same modus operandi is being played out by Covid (in general terms) deniers against our health experts and they are also getting away with their mis/dis information but that's another debate… what to do with these people.
     • Molly 2.2.1

       16 February 2023 at 12:01 pm

       People feel secure in their homes. They rely on authorities, governments and regulatory bodies to ensure those homes are protected from risk, and systems are in place to deal with adverse events.

       (eg. Those who question climate change in these positions of authority are the ones who have let down others with their complacency. I still have my notes from a meeting with the chief planner of the Unitary Plan when he dismissed any reference to climate change. Much of Auckland Council's current position is performative and/or inadequate.)
       • weka 2.2.1.1

         16 February 2023 at 12:19 pm

         Activists who were prevented from talking about climate at Fonterra shareholder meetings. It's a long list of barriers by people who defy understanding at this point in time.
         • Anne 2.2.1.1.1

           16 February 2023 at 12:39 pm

           In 2009 NZ's then foremost climate scientist, Dr. Jim Salinger was sacked from NIWA for speaking out about climate issues without their prior approval:

           https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/2361900/Niwa-sacks-Jim-Salinger

           This happened in the early stages of the Key administration and you have to wonder what influence might have been brought to bear on them.
           • arkie 2.2.1.1.1.1

             16 February 2023 at 12:46 pm

             "Dr Mike Joy, of Massey University, a leader environmental scientist in your country, just the other day said 'we are delusional about how clean and green we are'," Mr Sackur said.

             He cited Mr Joy's research, which found half of the lakes and 90 per cent of lowland rivers in New Zealand are polluted.

             Mr Key, who is also the Minister of Tourism, said he does not share Mr Joy's view.

             "He's one academic and, like lawyers, I could provide you others who would give a counter view," he said.

             https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/key-rejects-bbc-criticism-of-nz-pure-claim/YQOXTFZYENOQEWJANV34RGEG2U/

             Quite possible Anne, considering this attitude.
             • Anne …

               16 February 2023 at 4:42 pm

               I would say probable. Nothing official needs be said. Just a hint as to the direction a Govt. department is expected to follow.

               I remember John Key back in the day claiming the jury is out on climate change and he didn't know whether to believe it or not. It would have been around 2010/12 when 97% of the atmospheric scientists had already long confirmed its existence. It was during a TV interview and there's no chance of finding it. Perhaps others will remember it.

               It is mostly a right-wing/Conservative problem. I put it down to their conviction they are superior and therefore don't have to heed the warnings from professional experts… cos they know better. 🙁
               • arkie …

                 16 February 2023 at 5:01 pm

                 Yes, agreed.

                 I think the denial may be associated with conservative/right-wingers because they recognise that our only real hope of changing things will be socialised and will necessarily bring an end to profit-seeking/capitalism.
         • Molly 2.2.1.1.2

           16 February 2023 at 1:24 pm

           Fonterra is an immense – private – company, who are required to follow the regulatory rules and policies of government at national and local level.

           Can we acknowledge the vast power and influential difference between authorities and an individual who is not convinced by what they've been exposed to on climate change?

           Blaming such individuals as responsible for a natural weather event and the devastating outcomes is an easy reflex, but the wrong one.
           • weka 2.2.1.1.2.1

             16 February 2023 at 9:03 pm

             depends on the individual I guess. Are you referring to Anne's comment? People with a large reach have a different responsibility than others whose reach is their family, friends, workplace.

             The cyclone might be a natural weather event, but the scale/intensity and the frequency are human made. I think there are limits to the usefulness of blaming individuals (and retrospective blame seems not that helpful, but it's a comment on TS, not a tweet with millions of views).

             There's some edge between holding to convention in human relating at this time, and pushing harder because the situation is so urgent.
     • Sabine 2.2.2

       16 February 2023 at 1:02 pm

       This is however not the first time we had such a devastating and deadly storm.

       I remember a big, deadly storm in 2004. That was during Helen Clarks years.

       You want to blame 'climate change deniers'? You will have to blame every current and past government on this planet.

       We might stop to drive, eat nothing more then soylent green, never leave our house, don't use any excess electricity, don't have children to stop overpopulation, and so on and so forth, but it is nothing with governments doing the right thing.

       The right thing would be to not build in Flood plains. The five reserves in Rotorua that were earmarked for low income housing under Jacinda Ardern and the ex Labour MP Mayor of Rotorua Mayor Steve Chadwick were such areas. It was known that these are flooding every time a bit of water falls. In fact one of the reserves that i live near by is again, soggy, muddy, water logged. Lets build some cheap houses there for the people that have no where to go. We have to stop that.

       Roads, and concreting over every strip of green that can be concreted over. Parking lots the size of several football fields in West Auckland and elsewhere where there used to be greenfields. We have to stop that.

       Shitty and cheap infrastructure, cause we actually don't want to build anything that costs money. We are too cheap for that. Too tinny. Too poor. What ever. We have to stop that.

       You want to blame CC deniers? Lol. Every government the world over is in that camp. If they weren't we would have had some decent chances since the 70s of hte last century.

       And still we think that buying an e-vehicle is a green choice that will prevent / diminish global warming/weather weirding/climate change all the while we still have all the comforts that we like.

       Lets kill the cows for their farts, the chickens too, next pigs, horses and pets, cause all of this is better then to finally do the right thing.

       Build up, not out. Free public transport in exchange for no cars. High fees on car ownership, electric or gasoline as neither are good for the environment. Insulation, double glazing, greywater recycling etc all from specs and in every new build without exeptions. ETC ETC ETC

       But yeah, cc deniers.

       Here 2004 under Helen Clark. Also in February.

       This is a bipartisan failure of epic proportions, world wide i might add, no one gets any good grades, and sadly as always it is little person that will pay the full bill.

       Our cc deniers sit in government and they refuse to regulate, they apply band aid solutions to be seen as proactive, and then a tropical storm shows us all how little of use these band aids actually are.
3. weston 3

   16 February 2023 at 9:48 am

   Aint much coverage of this story in mainstream but occasionally Democracy Now delivers and this time its a nice juicy interview with Seymour Hersh on his latest piece detailing how the US with Norwegian help took out Nordsteam .You can find the actual article on Substack . seymourhersh.substack.com

   
   
   
   • joe90 3.1

     16 February 2023 at 10:08 am

     And here we are eight or so days after Hersh's supposed revelation and no independent confirmation of any aspect of his story.

     And it ain't the first time…

     On Sunday, the legendary investigative journalist Seymour Hersh finally released a story that he has been rumored to have been working on for years: the truth about the killing of Osama bin Laden. According to Hersh's 10,000-word story in the London Review of Books, the official history of bin Laden's death — in which the US tracked him to a compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan; killed him in a secret raid that infuriated Pakistan; and then buried him at sea — is a lie.

     Hersh's story is amazing to read, alleging a vast American-Pakistani conspiracy to stage the raid and even to fake high-level diplomatic incidents as a sort of cover. But his allegations are largely supported only by two sources, neither of whom has direct knowledge of what happened, both of whom are retired, and one of whom is anonymous. The story is riven with internal contradictions and inconsistencies.

     The story simply does not hold up to scrutiny — and, sadly, is in line with Hersh's recent turn away from the investigative reporting that made him famous into unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

     https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden
     • weston 3.1.1

       16 February 2023 at 11:00 am

       You seem to have a particular penchant for dirt digging joe im surprised you're not an investigative journalist yourself !? although that would oblige you to direct youre attentions toward the truth rather than tending to deviate away from it the story under discussion is did the US blow up the pipeline its not how Osama Bin Laden died .

       Here's another interview this time its from ' acTVism Munich.

       
       
       
       • joe90 3.1.1.1

         16 February 2023 at 1:26 pm

         dirt digging

         Face facts, sport; one unsubstantiated miss is forgivable. But two?

         Those who care about Hersh should shut him up before he properly trashes what remains of his rep.

         //
         • Francesca 3.1.1.1.1

           16 February 2023 at 1:49 pm

           Hersh has been attacked for his reporting for ever

           This: from back in 2015

           https://therealnews.com/lapdogs-redux-how-the-press-tried-to-discredit-seymour-hershs-bombshell-reporting-on-cia-domestic-spying

           Its a deflection , to attack the messenger , rather than address the message .

           Pretty clear who was responsible, whatever the details
           Same as Scott Ritter , with no attention given to the actual background of his offending , and why he was targeted by the FBI
           • joe90 3.1.1.1.1.1

             16 February 2023 at 2:02 pm

             This: from back in 2015

             Ames?

             Ritter?

             But hey, you go right ahead and cite these predatory POS.
             • Francesca …

               16 February 2023 at 2:51 pm

               I can do without the vindictive nastiness, and I don’t need you Joe and your trigger happy 3 second google searches to save my soul from being contaminated .

               JFK had some pretty questionable sexual habits involving interns and women much younger than himself but that does not take away from his remarkable presidency : some pretty inspiring speeches , civil rights reforms, handling of the Cuban crisis etc.

               https://www.scottritterextra.com/p/cancel-culture-round-three-get-out

               If Scott Ritter is anti war then he's the man for me
               But you carry on attacking the messenger and drowning out the message
               • joe90 …

                 16 February 2023 at 3:15 pm

                 If Scott Ritter is anti war then he's the man for me

                 Bless.

                 /

                 https://twitter.com/RealScottRitter/status/1621860472986210304
                 • Francesca …

                   16 February 2023 at 3:45 pm

                   Bless, that would have taken 1 second

                   Obviously you didn’t read Ritter’s article, which would have gone some way to explain to you why he might be feeling a little pissed off at the gutless libertarians and others wanting to prevent him from speaking at the peace rally on the 19th .
                   You spend too much time on Twitter Joe, I worry about you , it’s notorious for ill advised statements uttered in haste

                   And breaking news Joe , all humans are flawed, its all too easy to dig up dirt on anyone, from 20 years ago , or last week
                   • joe90 …

                     16 February 2023 at 4:16 pm

                     all humans are flawed,

                     Hypocrisy is, perhaps, a flaw. Being busted twice for trawling the interwebs for underage girls certainly isn't a flaw. It's a crime committed by a vile, exploitative abuser, and should rightly disqualify him from participating in public life.

                     Again, you be you and minimise his crimes away.

                     //
                 • Francesca …

                   16 February 2023 at 4:25 pm

                   No reply function on your last post

                   Adult chat rooms where participants are asked at least 3 times to verify they are adult would be a strange place to go if your aim was to trawl the interweb for underage girls.
   • Francesca 3.2

     16 February 2023 at 3:21 pm

     That's an incredible interview Weston.

     Can not believe Hersh is 85!!

     He is in really good nick, has terrific recall, speaks like a man 30 years younger, still has his hair, and the stamina to research and write!

     Remarkable guy
     • weston 3.2.1

       16 February 2023 at 11:32 pm

       Yeah must have a fairly substantial set of balls too i forget which of the interviews he sayes it but he gets asked about threats to his life etc that would be pretty inevitable for a man like him and he shrugs it off with " they threaten your children not you"or words to that effect kinda chilling .

       I just finished reading the OBL story and really i cant see what the fuss is about "unsubtantiated" they thunder when really what the fuck is substantiated ?the cia lies the polititians lie the military lies the country the story is focussed on is highly corrupt and US officials are busy with their blackmail and bribes as usual .I think on balance of probabilities Hersh's version of events is very likely to be the most accurate .You'd surely have to take any official narrative coming out of the white house with a mighty big dose of salt, then or now imo .
4. weka 4

   16 February 2023 at 12:26 pm

   Donations can be made here for small communities on the East Coast. Good explainer from Tina Ngata. I'll put up a post later, so please link to other useful things.

   https://twitter.com/tinangata/status/1625662830891655168

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