Our local high school is having a "tremendous" planting day today, turning what was recently a pine forest plantation beside the playing fields, into a mixed forest/orchard/learning space. I'm providing heritage apple trees from the local area as well as guidance for planting out the learning-space with natives. Every little bit helps!
It'd be really good to have some of the students observing and recording changes and evolution of the area.That project could be inherited by a particular class each year so that a long term study could eventuate. Turn the kids on to be observant, how to identify and research species that volunteer, how to do surveys/gridding , photograph and record yearly.
+100 I only wish there was a similar initiative around various spots in Wellingon.
At one time many years back, the Council nursery would provide various natives, and even fruit trees (maybe they still do).
Unfortunately the support has become a bit half-hearted lately so that when plants get damaged by things such as careless weed spraying, or dumping of rubbish, or even overflowing of sewers, nothing ever gets done.
I contrast that with initiatives such as yours @Robert and places around Paekakariki where there are little food basket plantations that are accessible to anyone and everyone.
Similar initiatives around Wellington? You perhaps need to get out and about a bit more OWT. There are numerous re-vegetation oriented groups and individuals planting and maintaining numerous sites around Wellington. Yes, the Council still has a nursery – in fact a large very productive unit that supplies community groups and even lone-wolf types with MoU's with up to 500 endemic seedlings annually.
Hark at "You perhaps need to get out and about a bit more OWT."
Perhaps I would if there was still a decent bus service and I was still able to walk as far as I once was.
Around where I live, the Olive trees no longer get harvested, any initiatives (such being a 'friend' of the fruit trees planted by Council) are rendered useless by lack of support by Council – such as actually enforcing penalties for leaking sewers or dumping of toxic rubbish, or even over-enthusiastic weed spraying that kills some of the trees that dedicated people in the neighbourhood have planted. And in some places, anything is just as likely to be surreptitiously poisoned by gentrifiers worried about their view being interrupted.
But yes, I'm aware that a lot of people are making the effort – it's just a shame priorities aren't what they once were.
These days, the only thing I seem to be able to grow for harvest successfully is head hair
So OWT, you live in Mt Vic eh? Why were olives planted there in the first place? Not a wise choice since even if harvested, the fruit would be un-usable. As for the other ills you refer to, are they ever reported? It seems that if people bother to report water or sewer leaks or the dumping of toxic waste, those matters are attended to very quickly. Unfortunately, we seem to live in a society where people seem think such problems will magically be resolved by some ethereal entity who is expected to be aware when there are problems. On the up-side, the re-vegetation of Mt Victoria is steadily progressing on the back of voluntary labour and Council support. Much credit also needs to be given to the trappers whose efforts are providing a safer environment for native birds of varying species that were not there in the not very distant past.
I could give you a list of reference numbers related to people reporting things. And the problem isn't with the mere peons operating at the 'coal face' – such as the living waged parking wardens, or what's left of a parks and reserve department, or those long suffering staff in service centres. Like central gummint, it's with the masters of the Universe that 'supervise' them.
So looks like the jockeying for position is under way, but don't discount the collegial feeling evident in the various quotes. If they can retain that while defining their positions it will keep the coalition govt on a constructive track which will deliver electoral benefits for all three. Voters like to see consensus politics actually working.
"Robertson said the coalition and confidence and supply agreements were the starting point for all negotiations and there was a general acceptance any differences should be worked out before policy gets to Cabinet committees."
We've seen a few hiccups when that theory hasn't been seen to work in practice. I suspect they were caused by underlings failing to absorb instructions sufficiently. I hope those doing the implementation of the strategy have learnt from their mistakes. The more professional the process looks from here on, the more likely centrists will decide it is a reliable prospect for further delivery, and the more likely centrists as a group will select a center-left mix next election.
One thing I would acknowledge in the Nats is that they wouldn't, at the last minute, pull the rug out from under their coalition partner and senior minister. A la abortion reform.
Sort of interesting – a thumbnail picture in a list of news items in Featured Stories (down from The Briefing which is under the latest items) is about the three parties and how they will relate their differences for the next election.
The pics are James Shaw, Grant Robertson, Winston Peters.
I saw that on One News last night, was glad the dumb name got rejected by the EC. Seemed like an attempt to deceive voters impressed by the coalition govt making consensus politics work. They ought to call their re-run the Holy Rock & Rollers because catchy names appeal to folks.
Jeremy Corbyn has tried to assess the best thing to do out of a dismal selection of possibilities regarding the Brexit disaster. He has written to MPs who might back his latest idea for finding a pathway to a reasoned outcome. (This from Yorick above.)
In the letter, Mr Corbyn said: 'Following a successful vote of no confidence in the government, I would then, as Leader of the Opposition, seek the confidence of the House for a strictly time-limited temporary government with the aim of calling a general election, and securing the necessary extension of Article 50 to do so.
'In that general election, Labour will be committed to a public vote on the terms of leaving the European Union, including an option to Remain.'
Mr Corbyn said he hoped his plan would 'halt the serious threat of No Deal, end the uncertainty and disarray, and allow the public to decide the best way ahead for our country'. …
The magic number for a majority in the House of Commons is 320 because while there are 650 MPs, the speaker and his three deputies do not vote while Sinn Fein's seven MPs do not take their seats.
Labour currently has 247 MPs – a long way short of the 320 needed – and there is no guarantee all of Mr Corbyn's backbenchers would support him becoming PM given some of them oppose his leadership while others are adamant Brexit must not be delayed again.
But for many on the Tory side its all a game and they have to win whatever their Party has decided; their creditworthiness depends on it. And the other side are awful Communists.
Tory MP Philip Davies said: 'Jeremy Corbyn is desperate. He stood on a manifesto promise at the last general election to leave the EU and honour the result of the referendum.
'He will do anything to grab power to inflict his Marxist extremism on the country – even ditching his promises to voters.
'Nobody would ever forgive any Conservative MP who acted to bring about a Marxist prime minister. This is a Marxist attempted coup.'
Have a look at how Farage harangues his audience, virtually beating them over the head with his message.
High-speed train will be used to ferry medicine to the UK from France in £25million No Deal Brexit plan
Medicines after Brexit have to be paid for by EU residents in Britain, immediately. Seems they are doing an Oz-Kiwi approach. Interesting how global we get business-wise, while people-wise we are becoming narrow, national even provincial.
The UK Health Minister is Chris Skidmore – an unfortunate name for a politician under pressure.
[The train] will deliver small parcels of medicine every day, and larger quantities of medicine every two to four days….
he Government is spending £434million to ensure the continuity of vital medicines and medical products, including through stockpiling.
Any interested providers have until August 21 to submit proposals – and the successful bidder will be announced in September.
The Government has been urging pharmaceutical companies to stockpile six weeks' worth of essential medicines in the event of a No Deal Brexit.
I had nothing to do with it – I promise. I've been tucked up in my little blue box clutching my crystals and taking grewarshark's advice to give my brain a rest
Something similar happened a week and half back when a whole story and comments disappeared for a while . LPrent seemed to have fixed it and gave a technical explanation at the time
I found it amusing as some of us had a discussion yesterday on Open Mike starting with OWT's comment at 10 re the fact that Eco Maori's comments appear on OM a day or two old. In my comment (below) I referred to lprent’s "Magical Time Machine" and low and behold – a couple of hours later what happens? Weka's post disappears and Mike Smith's 8 August turns up …
On a different but slightly related topic, yesterday in a comment under Weka's post you used a word, a prejorative (IIRC in para 3 of your comment there) that many of us find very offensive. I noted that the fact that many find that term offensive was not pointed out to you but as I have very strong feelings about the term you used, please go and look at the conversation on its use that took place here just a few days earlier on Open Mike 13 August. Weka's comment there says very clear why many people consider that term offensive; as do quite a number of other comments there.
We are trying out the anti-aging effects of the TS Time Machine in support of Extinction Rebellion but so far we’ve only managed to age a couple of years and pulled out of few grey hairs 🙁
Did you enjoy the show so far? If so, watch this space …
(i have come up with a possible resolution of the carnivore vs. vegan imbroglio with lprent..
we could boil it down to a foot-race – i see no other way out..)
(this from fertile-land post..)
hey..i'm an old guy…wanna race up mt eden..?
it could be billed as the unreconstructed-carnivore – vs. the vegan-who-annoys..
if you win i'll eat (fake)-meat – (a prospect i dread..)
if i win – you go vegan for a month..(you may find you like it..)
my 8 yr old (vegan)-dog who is super-fit/toned could also race..we could match him up against whatever carnivore-hound you like..(i should warn you he gets to run on a long west coast beach each/every day..he is up for it..)
as am i..)
p.s. bets could be lodged – i'd plunge on me..eh..?..)
[There are plenty of annoying commenters here and you are just one of many, I’m afraid. However, I have a better resolution: tone down the dogmatism in and of your comments and engage in genuine debate. We all have different opinions and it is not about winning the argument as such; agree to disagree. Take it or leave it Phil; no bets required – Incognito]
This site was set up for robust debate, not to provide a broadcasting soapbox for simpleton fools who can’t handle criticism of their ideas.
As far as I’m concerned your track record of appalling commenting behaviour adds nothing to this site and the discussions on it except to waste my resources.
From the horses mouth, so to speak, and not the dead one you keep flogging.
Same old message, same old intransigence, same old end result. If you really love animals so much, how about teaching that one trick pony you rode back in on a new routine.
Edit
Perhaps philip ure you could come to an agreement with the mods and only put up one comment on veganism per day of diminished length (not spread out in double spacing – you may have to submit then go back and edit down). You make a fair point, but anybody gets sick of having points stuck into them. And that comment should be about what others are doing about veganism, ideas for recipes etc so it isn’t always the same. Your dog does well on it. You have mentioned that. What new stuff can you tell us, Once a day is manageable, if the mod agrees of course.
So just a suggestion, if you can bring it off, you can then take on an international tour teaching the world not only about veganism, but how different parties with differing views can facilitate reasonable opinions and discussions about them to take place. That could help prevent wars. So you would be performing one small step for you, but one giant one for humankind.
if you want vegan recipies – you can google more of them than you can poke a stick at..
and should we apply yr insistance of something 'new' at all times to all the other topics discussed here..?
that would close everyrthing down..would it not..?
i think the reason you and most others get agitated is because you are being challenged/questioned on something you usually aren't..
and this makes you uncomfortable – especially with regards to yr self-regard..in that most here think of themselves as 'the good guys/gals' – on the right side of most debates..
whereas on this one – you clearly aren't..
and that challenge is hard to face..eh..?
vegans don't comment/push the point here – 'cos of the guaranteed vitriol/disdain they will receive…
Andre's explained the problems with your propaganda claim below. Bottom line: if we take the studies claiming an association between eating red meat and bowel cancer to be accurate (a very big if), and if I were to develop bowel cancer at some point in the future, the likelihood of that cancer being a result of simple bad luck would still hugely outweigh the likelihood of it being the result of eating red meat.
I read an article about bowel cancer in The Listener a few years back that featured several vegetarians/vegans stunned that they'd developed bowel cancer despite their lifelong (in some cases) avoidance of meat. It shouldn't have come as a surprise to them because bowel cancer isn't a straightforward matter of what you eat, but like you they'd presumably read all the propaganda and assumed bowel cancer was something caused by eating meat. Falling for propaganda is human, but when people warn you it's happening you should at least consider whether they may be right.
1. Please look up the logical fallacy "argument from authority."
2. My GP will have the same info Andre's outlined below and which I was already familiar with, so there wouldn't be much point.
3. I've been getting wrong, harmful, terrible advice on what to eat from GPs and dietitians ever since I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes over 30 years ago, so no I won't be asking my GP what I should eat – experience taught me the hard way not to do that.
(and maybe try to read a bit more that 'a listener article a couple of yrs ago'..eh..?..)
Sigh. I mentioned that article because it told me that vegans are swallowing a propaganda lie about bowel cancer, not because it's the sum total of my reading on the subject.
and who the fuck still reads the listener..?
Well, me, obviously. Dismissing print media as no longer fashionable is a foolish approach to information-gathering.
What are the annual and lifetime risks of developing bowel cancer for you, a vegan, or I, a relatively low red-meat consumer, or Psycho Milt, apparently a very high red meat consumer?
I want to get a feel for whether the risk of getting bowel cancer is high enough relative to the other risks to my health and safety that I should worry about it, and whether the excess risk from eating red meat is high enough to overcome the pleasures and other benefits from doing so.
My goodness, what an unhelpful and unpersuasive response.
For anyone else interested, bowel cancer is primarily an old age disease. Your risk of getting it by age 55 is about 0.5%, if you make it to 80 your risk has gone up to about 7%.
Taken at face value, correlational studies suggest eating the guideline amount of red meat (500g/week) increases those risks around 20%. Presumably, if those conclusions are accurate and not simply the result of some other influence or even just random statistical noise, heavier consumption will further increase that very small increased risk.
But to me it's a very small increase of a negligibly small risk, so it's not going to influence my lifestyle choices. Particularly given my ongoing participation in gravity sports that I'm really too old for that are a much greater risk to my health and safety.
As for the various kinds of plant-based and vat-grown substitutes for animal flesh (and other animal products), I take a keen interest in them and will enthusiastically substitute them into my diet when they get to a palatable combination of taste and texture at an acceptable price.
I've regularly posted about progress in those efforts here. Which you would know if you had any interest in what other people here have to say, instead of just coming here to proselytize for your hobbyhorses.
The problems associated with animal agriculture do indeed factor into my diet choices. But not enough to drive me to go to the hassle and make the sacrifices necessary to get all my nutrient needs from a vegan diet with the choices currently available.
So reading holier-than-thou hectoring about it simply induces a fuck-you reaction. Particularly when obsessives try to use a much bigger and only slightly related problem (such as climate change) as a stalking horse.
The problem of how much of the planet is devoted to agriculture and subsequent emissions is more closely related to the sheer numbers of humans. If we all went vegan, the climate change impact would still be relatively small compared to energy-related climate change. A meat-heavy diet results in CO2eq emissions of 3 or 4 tonnes pa. A vegan diet is around 1.5 to 2 tonnes pa.
Whereas the much larger part of the climate change problem is very much related to lifestyle choices of the wealthy (most westerners). Profligate energy use is the biggest and most easily modifiable, along with where that energy comes from. For NZers, shutting down all fossil-fueled electricity generation in NZ and replacing it with wind would have about the same climate impact as all of us going vegan. (see p14 of this report)
Pets are also a substantial part of that impact. When I called time on my best feline buddy ever a year ago, choosing not to get another cat reduced my food-related emissions more than my going vegan would.
Bottom line is, anyone wealthy enough to be spending time arguing with strangers on the internet almost certainly has a lot of excess emissions they could eliminate from their lifestyles. We all have indulgences that we value. Trying to lay guilt trips on people with fact-and-number free assertions about specific minor aspects of their lifestyles is likely to backfire.
so the risk for a medium red meater eater at 80 is 8.4%? That's not compared to vegans though right?
I'm wondering if the people who eat less meat, eat more veg and d other healthful things, and this is where the benefit is. Then there's the kind of meat that's being eaten. And eating patterns (what's the 500gm of meat being eaten with).
Also betting that in 20 years time when we have larger numbers of people who've been long term vegan we'll start seeing various issues popping up from those diets too (especially in people who were vegan from childhood).
@weka I reckon trying to get that level of precision from the kinds of studies and data used is a fool's errand. Certainly neither piece I linked has enough info about the methods to make that kind of detailed inference.
Nevertheless, if I had to speculate, I'd guess that the 7% (which is actually my rounding of 1/15 or 6.66666%) is an average across all those that end up getting bowel cancer.
Given the average NZ meat consumption is around 2kg/week (from memory from a thread a few days ago), 4x the recommended guideline, that implies vegans/vegetarians/low meat eaters are actually few and far between. So that 20% difference in risk would translate to probably more like the risk of an 80yr old vegan/vegetarian/very low meat-eater having got bowel cancer being around 5 to 6% ish.
If that 20% difference is a real signal and not just statistical noise, then I'd still need a lot of convincing it was just red meat, rather than a whole combination of diet and lifestyle factors that tend to go together with high red meat consumption.
Phillip So it’s all about the animals treatment what’s wrong with eating eggs. Free range hens. You’d be giving them a reason to be here. In other words why not vegetarian.
because by eating eggs (and we all know that free-range ideal u describe is few and far between – most hens live in horrendous conditions/suffering..you know that..
so by eating them you support/enable that suffering..
which brings us to cheese.etc…
the reason there (aside from the well-documented fucking of the environment) is that by eating dairy/cheese you are supporting/enabling the suffering those animals endure..
cows have a natural life-span of about 23 yrs..the cows that give yr milk are flogged out by age five – when they are sent to the slaughterhouse..
and the reason they are flogged out is because they are serially impregnated..so as to keep producing milk..
which brings us to the calves – and this brings us smack up against the insulation most have to what is done in their name..
'cos my heart has been broken/blood run cold – by the sounds of the mother cows keening for the young who are taken from them – so milk drinkers can get what they want..
not to mention the calves – crying en-mass for their mothers..
and of course they are then sent to the slaughterhouse..
listen to/experience that – and i defy you not to be moved..
(i hope all that clarifies the 'why not vegetarian?'-question for you..
Yeah, how about actually answering the question you were asked about free range eggs without any broken, bleeding heart cow nonsense.
A certified free range grown egg is good or bad?
And while you're here, what about the organic beefy happily grazing in a paddock until the home kill man comes, with no horrendous conditions, totally free of suffering?
Or the pest species like rabbits self shot, skinned, gutted and eaten.
The AlIen is right. Just answer my question. And the 23 year old cow story is bull shit, some number you’ve made up. The cows raped to death on the farm do the same off the farm. They mate every year when there’s a bull around and in the wild there is. And by the way the wild isn’t that great. The wild works well when the weather is moderate and feed plentiful. Doesn’t always happen. I didn’t want your version of how animals feel. I believe in general farm animals here are treated better than some humans in third world countries and where there’s conflict. I just wanted to know why you wouldn’t eat an egg from a happy chook running around the house.
The causes of all cancers are multi-factorial and age and genetics are always involved. But they are by no means the only factors and neither is meat consumption the only dietary risk factor associated with the incidence of bowel cancer.
This isn’t about you, Phil. Otherwise we’d call TS Phil’s blog for Phil’s hobby-horse and pet-project and only for Phil to read and comment 😉 A bit of a mouthful but you get the gist, don’t you?
No, you were responding to Sacha who hadn’t asked a question at all. It is you who’s asking all the questions.
Yes, we know you “feel very deeply/strongly about these issues” but you seem to lose sight of other factors involved. And you don’t like to be challenged. In fact, you become quite belligerent if not dogmatic.
Not all meat eaters get bowel cancer, not all smokers get lung cancer, and not all drivers under the influence of alcohol causes crashes. No shit, Sherlock!
Phil, you seem to "feel" quite a lot but it's a poor basis for a conversation about anything that involves other forms of evidence than our emotions.
After serving for several years on one of the advisory groups for the NZ bowel cancer screening pilot programme, I do not have any questions for you. Why would I?
oh wow..!..seeing as you know all about it sacha..
how about sharing with the rest of us – what yr 'advisory-board' – actually advised..?
as to what are the causes of bowel cancer..
don't hold back – spread the knowledge..
[Phil, you seem to be deliberately misreading comments. Why is that, Phil? Can’t you handle an evidence-based opinion that does not squarely align with your “belief”?
Sacha never said or claimed to “know all about it”.
Sacha referred to a screening pilot programme. You do know what screening means, don’t you, Phil? It means the focus is not necessarily on (the) underlying causes or risk factors but on (early) detection and diagnosis.
Why do you ask for Sacha to “spread the knowledge”? You have done 40 years of reading, as you said yourself, but you don’t seem to read links in this discussion thread nor the Listener.
IMO you are not debating in good faith and you don’t want to change your habits here. Both you and I know how this is going to end but it is your choice, Phil. TS has provided you with a free platform and bandwidth but you don’t seem to be showing any respect or gratitude for this – Incognito]
You didn’t read the links, did you? Why am I not surprised; I even italicised the key words 😉
You wrongly conclude that it is all about “giving up” or “cutting out”. Rather, it is about balance and moderation – homeostasis or equilibrium for well-being, if you like. For example, decrease the ‘bad’ factors and increase the ‘good’ ones.
To stay in the context of bowel cancer and a healthy gut microflora (AKA gut microbiome), you may have heard of probiotics, the so-called good guys, in contrast to the bad ones that are pathogenic and disease-causing (incl. cancer). More importantly, it is about balance. Heard of faecal transplants? They are the new rage, it seems, the new frontier.
You may also be familiar with this ancient saying, which is as truthful as they come:
The dose makes the poison
Never a truer word spoken about substance abuse and drug addiction (incl. alcohol). Same principle applies to diet (and lifestyle).
Do you comment here in good faith? Are you interested in genuine debate?
I'll hypothesis that good gut health for many people also needs some degree of animal fat. This one reason why some ex-vegans get an improvement in digestion when they stop being vegan. Probably related to fat soluble vitamins too.
We’ve been eating animal products for a very long time, long enough for there to be biology to have evolved from the advantage of animal foods.
We’ve been eating animal products for a very long time, long enough for there to be biology to have evolved from the advantage of animal foods.
Exactly. We evolved as omnivores, which is why vegans have to go to some effort to ensure their diet doesn't leave them with various nutritional deficiencies, and why it's a really bad idea to try and wean a toddler onto a vegan diet.
…complete and utter bullshit on yr dangers to children…
Ah-huh…
We don’t yet have enough evidence to say how current vegan practices affect babies’ health at a population level. But it’s not hard to find examples of vegan diets being blamed for a variety of child health problems. Research on children in the Netherlands being fed a particularly strict plant-based macrobiotic diet showed they suffered nutrient deficiencies and retarded growth, mainly between the ages of six and 18 months. There have even been incidents of vegan parents accused of child abuse related to their children’s poor growth.
I do. Ex-vegans and ex-vegetarians, more than I can easily count.
'ex-vegans get an improvement in digestion when they stop being vegan'
heh..!..got anything to back this up..?..or did the many 'ex-vegans' you know tell you this..?
Yes, the ex-veg people talk about their experiences. It's common enough that patterns appear. I really hope medical science gets on the ball with this in the coming decade.
Best place to see people talking about health issues from being vegan is youtube. Plenty of high profile, committed vegans, who had their health collapse and then went through a pretty harsh process often over years of giving up their ideology so they could be well.
and this 'ex-vegan' sub-subculture: are there a lot of them..?
I think there are *increasing numbers, and as I said above, I know enough to not be easily able to estimate how many.
and are 'hypothesise' and 'probably' other words for/covering an orifice-pluck..?
Only if you are either stupid or disingenuous. If not, then both those words were used with care to convey meaning.
'ex-vegan' (and their doings) joins 'insane religious tracts' and 'disease' as ongoing chuckles from this thread..
I don't know what that means, but will assume that you think there is no such thing as an ex-vegan. I'm not surprised, because vegans wanting to eat meat are considered traitors and they won’t be talking to *you. The other emerging social dynamic is the immense social pressure that young people are under to remain vegan when their health is deteriorating. This is dangerous.
It comes from vegan fundamentalism that would rather see young women with multiple health problems than admit that some people's health is better for eating even small amounts of animal products. Some people are ok on a vegan diet, some aren't. It's a problem that we now have social groups acting like cults with regards to good choices.
That ex-veg link is interesting. We can also factor in the people that eat animal products occasionally but still call themselves vegetarian or vegan. Which is not a problem except for the fundamentalists who insist it is wrong.
so you are presenting the incrementalist point of view – 'do everything – but in moderation'..
i often rail at laour/this gummint – for being so incrementalist – and doing nowhere near enough..
those arguments wd spill over in replies to yr incrementalist arguments on this..
and yes..i have heard about 'probiotics'…
and i remember reading recently (sorry – don't have link – but the results from a big/credible study) that probiotics are a marketing pile-of-bullshit..
that people have been suckered into this thing as some sort of salve to the bacon-eating etc. aspects of their life..
i understand the latest thinking on them is that they are a crock..
and solve/salve nothing..
i have heard of faecal transplants..don't need one myself – but i understand they do work for people who have monstered their own digestive systems..
'the dose makes the poison'..
um..!..no..like most slogans – it is simplistic – and often used as an excuse by people who can't face giving up anything..
in my case – one shot of heroin wd have me right back there..
and for alcoholics the same stricture applies…so..
what would make you question if i comment here 'in good faith'..(whatever definiton you apply to that..)
and again with the 'genuine debate'..
i asked previously..cd you plse define what you see this as..?
and once again – i ask what would make you even ask that 'genuine debate' question..of me..and yet of no others..
and if you define debate as the battle of ideas – that is certainly what i am doing – in my arguments for the animals..eh..?
(sigh..!..yes..strictly speaking it wasn't a question – it was an admonition – but one that needed a reply..
but my point stands that most of my comments here have been in response to what you (and others) have said to me..'n'est ce pas..?'
u said: 'And you don’t like to be challenged. In fact, you become quite belligerent'
given i have been called 'insane' – 'a nutter' – 'diseased'(!)..a 'reader of insane religious tracts' etc etc.(that 'religious tracts.' one is still causing a chuckle..greys' 'disease' one is also a little ripper..
where have i come anywhere within coo-ee of nasty shit like that..?
in fact..seeing as you are accusing..how about some examples of my 'belligerence'..?
i think you are mistaking 'belligerence' for having yr beliefs challenged..
they are different..eh..?
and yes – there are generally exceptions to most rules…but those exceptions do not in any way automatically overturn the/any thesis presented..do they..
(and as a footnote – cd i say that i approach all this in good spirits..i am not sitting here raging against those giving me their best shots..
i have been for a walk along the cliffs with my dogs – they are now sunning their bellys..i had a wicked breakfast/lunch…and i just smoked a stonking joint of good outdoors..
and really..i feel the hippies/60's gave us a lot – they were right about so many things..
and one takeaway that i have tried to live by is a cartoon..
it is a furry freak bros one..
where they face the readers – and say something to live by..
'remember kiddies..!.when yr smashing the state – always keep a smile on yr lips – and a song in yr heart'..
that is what i am doing here – in a small way – helping smash the (animal-slavery) state..
where the fuck have i ever said anything anywhere near that..?
'tone down the dogmatism'..what the fuck does that even mean..?
should i say stop eating animals 'sometimes'..?
and engage in 'genuine debate'..w.t.f. does that even mean…?
the reactionary-authoritarianiam here is such you could bottle it..
why are you all so frightened/angered by having what you think is yr god given fucken right to mistreat/eat animals challenged..?
[You seem confused, Phil. I’m not Lprent but I do find you annoying. You pretend to not know what it is about so let me spell it out for you again: your behaviour here. If you don’t want to engage in genuine but robust debate then say so and go for a run on the beach or somewhere else …
BTW, if I could bottle it, I’d sell it; there seems to be a willing market for it – Incognito]
i am not confused – i am aware you are not iprent (i spoke of him in the 3rd person)
i was indicating the feral abuse heaped on me..that's ok..eh..?…i can start doing that..can i..?…just engaging in personal abuse..?
and cd you please define (more than a (repeated) amorphous slogan) exactly what you mean by 'genuine' 'robust' debate..?…(that which you urge me to engage in..)
my debate is certainly 'genuine'….and you all seem to find it more than 'robust' enough..
i do not engage in personal abuse of anyone..
so what are you actually asking of me..?..you are correct..i do not know..
as to your 'goal' – I don't really care – I live with meat eaters who I love – I haven't eaten flesh willingly for 39 years. wtf would I know. And yes as a prelude to any reply, I am not a vegan, just a vegetarian. I'm close but still addicted even though I know more than most the horrors of the products I consume.
funny story..!..vegetarians often react as vehemently as flesh-eaters – to suggestions they cease and desist on the dairy..
aside from addiction to cheese (heh..!) i put part of that reaction down to what i was trying to point out to grey – that like many here they view themselves as the good guys/gals – and that being challenged/questioned does not sit well with them..
(and when i was vegetarian for all those years before i went vegan – i used to think vegans were 'a bit weird'/'taking it a bit too far'..
perspectives/certainties change..i have found..)
and i wd insist that i do not in any way feel i am ‘a victim’..
and in fact just the opposite – compared to other parts/times of my life – i am feeling very strong/happy in my bones..
and plan on going and standing with/fighting with the extinction rebellion crew..
I have to say @ Incognito, and in defense of Phil and magic scooters, and without trying to sound too much like a pompous git, it's not that unusual for people to switch addictions as part of recovery into something a little less self-destructive. I only wish one of my siblings had been able to do likewise he'd have been a force to be reckoned with.
I'll get back to clutching me mystical crystals and dealing with me inner peace now but I'm sure the magic scooter will eventually prove its worth – maybe along with the Jubilation Choir on loop
Oh…… EDIT: Convicted and Discharged Mr Ure.
Stand down!
Btw Phil, it's more than likely we've met many years ago – we certainly have one or two mutual acquaintances/friends, or at least at a 2 degrees of separation.
Pleased to know you're still making it. Thankfully I realised very early on that if you hang around the barber shop, it's not long before you get your hair clipped
@ weka..and how do you feel about 'fake' ice-cream..?
the news for the dairy industry just keeps getting worse and worse..
'What’s so revolutionary about Perfect Day is that they are the first company to bring lab-produced dairy to market. You read that right: this is dairy, molecularly identical to cow’s milk, it’s just made entirely without animals – think clean meat but for milk. Perfect Day is calling their product flora-based dairy, and it’s made by taking the essential genes of dairy and adding them to microflora. Then, a fermentation process is used to yield milk. I’m not a scientist so don’t ask me to elaborate further, gurl. Here’s a cute video that explains it':
'The truly exciting thing about flora-based dairy is all the other applications for this stuff. You know what I’m talking about ladies: CHEESE!!! Not that the vegan cheeses on the market aren’t good (thank you, Miyoko) – but can you imagine vegan cheeses that are identical to dairy cheeses that melt and stretch and all that – and NO ANIMALS were exploited? Genius!'..
the dairy industry is fucked..eh..?…
dairy farmers are like stable-owners just after the arrival of the first motor-cars..
still arrogant/certain in their business-model – but a subtext of deep unease…
But just 39 per cent of those who take part in a new survey carried out by Horizon Research – commissioned by New Zealand's largest licensed medicinal cannabis company, Helius Therapeutics – have said they support legalising the personal use of cannabis.
Support in the survey – which featured 1003 respondents – is down from 52 per cent in April, and 60 per cent in November last year.
What's going on here. Can't NZs see that criminalising cannabis hasn't been helpful in controlling it. Are we just a bunch of spineless jellyfish who can't make a stand on anythuing if there is any problem associated with that position?
commissioned by New Zealand's largest licensed medicinal cannabis company, Helius Therapeutics
Who's business model goes all to poop when everyone's growing their own or buying "recreational" packaged weed, rather than their "medicinal" product at "medicinal" prices along with all the "medicinal" hoops you'll have to jump through.
I think it's simple if those on home detention can vote despite having convictions in the court, often for fraud of quite high amounts, it should revert to the three year limit as it was before the National Party messed with it.
When you're convicted you lose certain rights and voting is one of them, they do not deserve the right (and privilege) to vote until they've finished their sentence.
Prisoners have far too many rights while ignoring their responsibilites so no they shouldn't get even more unearned rights
Rights and privileges are different things. Privileges are rewards for positive behaviour. Rights are not earned. Rights are automatic, unless they conflict with the rights of other people. Failure to deliver on responsibilities loses privileges, not rights.
Specifically, I can see why criminals are imprisoned: their right to freedom conflicts with the rights of people to control their own property and bodies, and to live without fear. The purpose is public safety and the safety of specific individuals by isolating the offender and dissuading further offending (via punishment and rehabilitation).
But why prevent someone voting? It's unrelated to their offending (with very few offenders). It doesn't affect anyone else's rights. It doesn't provide protection to anyone. It just seems like societal petulance at best, and intentional alienation, humiliation, and dehumanisation at worst.
Thank you, McFlock, for your clear exposition. I agree with you and am now clear as to why what PR said was somehow wrong.
I would add that keeping prisoners away from being alienated from society is a good thing as they will need to be reintroduced to free society.
Am I right in saying that another problem with disenfranchising prisoners only is that other criminals who may have even done worse but who avoid imprisonment (like that young man recently kept out of jail because of his sporting ability) do not necessarily lose this right to vote.
Finally, the point that wholesale disenfranchisement of many members of a class of people as with the blacks in America can happen, as it did under such laws as possession of marijuana which also resulted in loss of voting strength. 10,000 inmates who can't vote is about half an MP in MMP electoral terms. You refer to this in 11.2 I see.
Yes, it's absolutely insane in the USA. I believe the NZ effect is somewhat limited because we only do it to current inmates – they get the vote back once released. In the US, it varies state by state but does result in large areas being significantly disenfranchised. This is a deliberate tactic by US conservatives over decades.
In NZ our prisoners are distributed across the country, so I doubt any single facility will flip an electorate from true-blue to a gang party. Except as a stepping-stone to permantly disenfranchise many Māori (disproportionately represented in our prison population), I can't see any point to disenfranchising current inmates (let alone seeing any real justification).
I can't see any point to reinstating voting rights to current inmates (let alone seeing any real justification).
I barely hear anything from prisoners about voting except for the odd comment about legalizing dope so its not likes theres a massive out cry for it
Setting it up would be a nightmare especially around security of the vote itself but most importantly its a right the prisoners have voluntarily given up so they don't get it back until they're released
Maybe before I started work as a Corrections Officer I might have thought your views had merit but now, after coming up to 6 months contact with prisoners, I know that its a pointless exercise only designed to make people in ivory towers feel good about themselves
Theres no solid arguement for giving back voting to prisoners, theres no upside and only downside with increased workloads for little to no gain but then I suppose its easy to say what should happen when you arn't going to have anything to do with the actual implementation
These prisoners choose to live outside of societies norms so no they don't get to fully participate in society and they certainly don't get to help shape society either
Because Prisoners need to know, to understand, that their actions are bad, very bad and that negative actions have consequences and since one of the greatest privileges someone can have is to vote it should be withdrawn from a prisoner until such time as they've earned back the right to vote
"It just seems like societal petulance at best, and intentional alienation, humiliation, and dehumanisation at worst."
You want these people to vote then all they to do to vote is not do that thing that sent them to prison
Thats all they have to do but they don't want to fully follow the rules of society so they don't get to fully participate in society
We don't take away their rights, they by their actions do
So we take people, lock them up, have judges lecture them, social workers talk at them, have them hear victim impact statements and restorative justice meetings, isolate them away from everyone else, but nobody realises they did a bad thing until you stop them from registering to vote?
Even if your argument were the case – that disenfranchisement is unrelated to the offending, merely punitive – I can't help but think that maybe it's the result of a lens that shows what would be a punishment to you. I suspect that if someone already feels somewhat alienated or maligned by society, it's just another gob of spit flung at them but not a meaningful sacrifice.
But voting is, however, an opportunity to keep or make some social connection. There are more than a few alienated people who have never filled in an official form in their lives – might be a way in.
"but nobody realises they did a bad thing until you stop them from registering to vote?"
Now you're getting it, finally, no they don't think they did bad things. If they hurt someone then that person deserved it, they asked for it. If they stole something from someone well thats ok because they wanted it, if they raped someone well she was leading them on and she really did want and now shes making up lies etc etc
They don't think like you and I so giving them the vote is meaningless
"But voting is, however, an opportunity to keep or make some social connection."
Once they're in they get more social connection then they've likely ever had, they get the opportunity to live, coexist, interact with all types of people, they have the opportunity to work, to get an education, to become socialised. Voting is not required if thats what you think is needed.
"There are more than a few alienated people who have never filled in an official form in their lives – might be a way in."
Do you know how many official forms they fill in? I don't know because it a helluva lot but off the top of my head if you want a nurses visit, complain to the PCO, buy something, get a tv, a job, study, do a hobby, get a stereo, change your diet etc etc its all about filling out forms so again voting is not required
The forms thing, ok – was thinking of a person I met who was on the outside. Lived in gangs, worked cash, no ID, DL, tax, census…
But if voting isn't a big deal to them, giving them the opportunity isn't overly onerous, is it. It's not a punishment to deny them votes. It's just a pointless removal of a right from the few who might wish to practise it.
For no reason. It fills no objective, serves no purpose.
"But if voting isn't a big deal to them, giving them the opportunity isn't overly onerous, is it"
Yes it is because what you're wanting is to increase the workload for staff that are already stretched
"It's just a pointless removal of a right from the few who might wish to practise it."
If they want to practice it then all they need to is not do the thing that sent them to prison, we don't remove their right they by their actions remove their right
"For no reason. It fills no objective, serves no purpose."
It helps to reinforce the notion that they need to earn their redemption, that prison is not a good place to be because you lose rights and that if you don't want to lose rights then you stay on the right side of the law
In the hundred or so years we had voting in prisons, how terrible was it?
And again, if its only purpose is as a punishment then it needs to be something they will miss – which you think most won't.
Don't kid yourself: this is something that we recently chose to do to them. You're argument is the same as "if you don't want to be hit in the face, don't be a dick. I'm not the one hitting you in the face, you are because you're being a dick". It's the petulant removal of access to a right. It's not related to the crime, and where noticed it won't be rehabilitative.
"In the hundred or so years we had voting in prisons, how terrible was it?"
Doesn't matter, they shouldn't have had it then and they shouldn't get it back now
"And again, if its only purpose is as a punishment then it needs to be something they will miss – which you think most won't."
As a single thing no it won't but it is another to them and, hopefully, all those reminders will add up
"Don't kid yourself: this is something that we recently chose to do to them."
It was wrong for them to have the vote and now that wrong has been corrected.
"You're argument is the same as "if you don't want to be hit in the face, don't be a dick. I'm not the one hitting you in the face, you are because you're being a dick"
These people are, mostly, simple and they respond to simple and clear messages so yeah don't want to lose the vote or any other right then don't commit the crime.
"It's the petulant removal of access to a right. It's not related to the crime, and where noticed it won't be rehabilitative."
Its not petulent as noted previously and having the vote will only cause more problems again as note previously
Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to bed because I have a shift in the morning in ISU where hopefully I won't have to be doing constant obs on suicide risks (again) or call in assistance for another person that pulled out the stitches on their arm and are bleeding out (again) or console a pedo/rapist that no they're not going to die because they heard on TV they were going to die (yes really, again) or have a discussion with a prisoner as to why they shouldn't do a poo on my boot (again) or shift through a prisoners poo to see what they were concealing up their back sides (again) or count out how many times a prisoner bangs their head against the window (again and 12s the record for me) because they're self harming
But I'll certainly take on board the idea that prisoners should be allowed to vote
It just seems like societal petulance at best, and intentional alienation, humiliation, and dehumanisation at worst.
That sums it up pretty nicely. But those are attractive qualities to right-wing voters, so I expect we'll see a lot more "soft on crims" propaganda from National over this.
i have never watched game of thrones..(viewing it as the 'friends' of costume drama..and that is not a compliment…'friends' with gratuitous violence – no thanks..)
this reviewer hadn't watched it either – then binge-watched all of it..
i am still not convinced – but it's a well written review..
Read the books, for me 1st was a great read, then the level enjoyment diminished by each book for me, still waiting in anticipation for the last 2.
I have learnt from Fire and Ice, when reading a series of novels; wait until they are all completed and then binge read the series. Imagine if the Harry Potter series had this issue with 5+ years between books. Just as well we had the TV series at least there is one ending and resolution for us.
Edit
Large, amoral, bullying UK men (and women to ensure gender balance) might be a significant percentage of their population. We had in NZ the abusive family with a Russian-doll effect, grandies, parents and young ones all apparently in the same mould, and glad to get rid of them back to their home country where they weren't welcomed any more than here.
Now another example of the nouveau 'bitch' insisting on his road ownership to a bus driver, who suggests he shift his car back 10 ft allowing the bus to go through. The reply is 'Never give way mate. That's why I drive a Forty grand car and you don't' and he suggests the bus driver get another job. It leaves me wondering why we went over in the 1940s to assist such an unlovely lot from low like this to high Tory.
Deeply respected UN leader killed in a plane crash in Africa, very sad, now is the subject of a doco that has revealed allegationsis so weird it could be true.
White mercenaries plotted to spread HIV through Africa through fake vaccination program, claims documentary In 'Cold Case: Hammarskjold,'
Documentary maker Mads Brugger set out to investigate the mysterious 1961 plane crash that killed the head of UN in modern-day Zambia for his latest film
Instead he meets Alexander Jones, a former member of a secret organisation
Jones claims the group undertook nefarious HIV research in the 1980s and 1990s as part of a white supremacist plot to devastate black communities
Published: 12:10 AEST, 15 August 2019 | Updated: 02:26 AEST, 17 August 2019
White mercenaries planned to spread HIV to black South Africans via a phony vaccination program, according to a former member of a secret parliamentary group in a new documentary.
Danish documentary-maker Mads Brugger set out to investigate the mysterious 1961 plane crash that killed the head of the UN in modern-day Zambia for his latest film, but says he ended up uncovering something vastly more sinister.
"First, 63 percent of the total increase in global natural gas production in the 21st century has come from shale gas. And second, shale gas production using modern hydrofracturing techniques tends to produce lighter methane than conventional natural gas drilling.
Howarth finds that if the lighter methane of shale gas production is explicitly accounted for, “shale-gas production in North America over the past decade may have contributed more than half of all of the increased [methane] emissions from fossil fuels globally and approximately one-third of the total increased emissions from all sources globally over the past decade.”
Since 89 percent of the shale gas production comes from the US (Canada produced the rest), that’s a whole lot of accelerated global warming tracing right back to America’s front door."
We're infinitely divided unlike the founders . They understood it was all one thing — demo-cracy. Lets form a fist. Particularly when the Reserve Bank and Business NZ are coming at a Labour Govt from the left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have decided to stay out of the Auckland Mayor debate .
Well there you go he wants to be a dictator in Green Land.
People are already hired on culture preferences it called instertution discrimination so hiring a tangata whenua in one of the top jobs in this new organisation that is designed to lower Maori reoffending is just countering that phenomenon Ka pai Kelvin .
That's cool A Tonga Movie documentary made by A Tonga Wahine My Father s Kingdom being released today Via Mana Wahine .
I agree Aotearoa is a safe heaven so is Australia compared to the rest of the world. But our Tangata think that the rest of the Papatuanuku is the same they travel over seas and don't realise that phenomenon
Unless they are on package holiday tours they can quite easily end up in the kaka in a bad neighbourhood being robbed and stuffed up I see this happening all the time.
Astronomy is A amazing science we come from the Stars the more we learn about the matariki the more we will know about our Papatuanuku cool I am amazed with science.
Jessica Eco Maori thanks you a the organisation that is Championing to Protect our Taonga Mauri and Hector dolphin there are other in a similar situation The Vaquita lives off the coast of New Mexico they are in a state close to EXTINCTION TO. Ka kite Ano
Its great that the prison system is going to try and lower the tangata whenua reoffending and ending up back in jail +have more consideration for Maori Culture .
That is good the Maori King meeting Our Prime ministers to try and work out a sensible solution to Ihumatao.
The tech industry is there for Aotearoa to boost our export earnings a big investment will reap huge returns in the future just about everything will have a tech element to it.
I say it's great banning that weight loss app from Aotearoa .
I agree that our tamariki going into state care and juvenile court and jail has to be stop what a waste of there precious lives .
Hone if the shoe was on the other foot you don't put down our Maori MPs this Coalition Government has delivered more for tangata whenua than any in the last 30 years just grand standing for votes .Why didn't you protest about the mess national made of Maori lives while they were in Parliament . A
Kia Ora to all the tangata whenua at Turangawaewae marae paying respect to all their whanau who have moved on I believe they are all watching us so I try to do them proud of my every ACTION as I don't want to disappoint my Mama .
The Turangawaewae marae hakari is making me hungry it looks reka .
Its time we taught society to respect Wahine and each other when you have a well known reporter making comments like that against Wahine who is a Papatuanuku leader that is not acceptable . I say it again Te neanderthal needs to retire his chovernistic climate denyers views and let someone from the next generation who cares have about the future have the Mike change is coming fast.
I agree that our government should back the online games tech industry I'm sure they have plans to increase investment to help develop and boost the industry .
Yes paula was just grand standing on the issue of the Labour Party employment bullying and other alagati her secret complaints have not come out of the dark.
Ka pai to our Coalition government and the fishing industry for working together to find a solution to the demise and extinction of Aotearoa taonga the Mauri Dolphin .
Its awesome that Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa has a big influence in Our fishing industry as I say if not the capitalist would not change their attitude to conserve our taonga the native wild life.
I think it great that the alcohol pushers are slowly decreaseing alcohol is a substance that should be taken with caution have adverts that show the damage it does to our society on TV .
Kia pai the tangata of Papatuanuku needs to let everyone know that it is not acceptable to disregard our future generations environment all in the name of $$$$$$$$$$$
UK privately appeals to senior Australian ministers for climate action
Exclusive: British high commissioner Vicki Treadell has met with Angus Taylor and Marise Payne
The British government has privately appealed to senior Coalition ministers – including Angus Taylor and Marise Payne– to develop a more “ambitious” climate policy, amid growing concern Australia is not doing enough to cut emissions.
As the government fends off criticism from Pacific island nations about its climate policies, Guardian Australia can reveal that the UK’s high commissioner to Australia, Vicki Treadell, has met with both ministers since the May election, using the introductory meetings to convey Britain’s view that it wants all countries, including Australia, to increase their climate ambitions.
The UK has prioritised climate action, and last month became the first G7 country to legislate a target of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. Since 1990, the UK has reduced emissions by more than 40%, while the economy has grown by around 70%.
“The UK government believes we have a moral duty to leave this world in better condition than that which we inherited, which is why we have set ourselves a target of net zero emissions by 2050
That will be a great move getting the fuel company's into line to stop fleacing us national set it up so that the company's could make huge profits.
I don't think its correct for the alcohol industry should be pushing to lower our alcohol consumption laws in town bars and clubs that stupid stuff on the streets is just a minor part of the carnage that alcohol causes .
White collar fraud is a big problem in our society WHY are they getting away with it ?? ?. Some in Aotearoa must have had a dose of reality the tax take went up recently ??? ?
White nurse ????? brain fart.
Sandy there are more people lost walking across a road than Shark mistaken people for pray deaths the way to minimise Shark accidents attacks is to warn people not to swim at dawn and dusk as that is the times that Sharks hunt the most.
That's cool going to Nasa to design a controller for a robot .
I just got a great deal from Spark on my new Huawei phone I got free Rugby World Cup viewing in the deal + other thinks to my phone is great .
I agree banning smoking in cars is needed just passing the law will make a lot of difference in that problem .
I say it a stain on South Africa uppping the amount of Black Rinos to be trophy hunted from 4 to 9 with only 5000 left in the wild they should be under TOTAL PROTECTION Rinos are awesome creatures that need to be preserved for EVER.
It would be a stressful time being in a situation where a wahine has to give up their tamariki for adoption in the 1970s. (Relatives Strangers) Pip Murdocks Book on her adoption experience in the 1970s .
Rotorua recycling has improved heaps there are big wheelly bins at each house for recycling every fortnight and a smaller one for rubbish that gets empty weekly . I see the problems Napier has with the recycling service they have small inadequate bins on windy days the recycling get blown all over the place .
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Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Asia Pacific Report The prosecutor’s office at the International Criminal Court (ICC) has appealed for an end to what it calls intimidation of its staff, saying such threats could constitute an offence against the “administration of justice” by the world’s permanent war crimes court. The Hague-based office of ICC Prosecutor ...
By Patrick Decloitre, RNZ Pacific correspondent French Pacific desk A women’s union in New Caledonia has staged a sit-in protest this week to support senior Kanak indigenous journalist Thérèse Waia, who works for public broadcaster Nouvelle-Calédonie la Première, after a smear attack by critics. The peaceful demonstration was held on ...
New Zealand Food Safety is monitoring overseas recalls of Indian packaged spice products manufactured by MDH and Everest due to concerns over a cancer-causing pesticide. ...
By Stephen Wright and Stefan Armbruster of BenarNews Fiji’s ranking in a global press freedom index has jumped into the top tier of countries with free or mostly free media after its government last year repealed a draconian law that threatened journalists with prison for doing their jobs. Fiji’s improvement ...
We might be in Invercargill but all anyone can talk about is Gore. Specifically, Salford Street. That’s where three-year-old Lachlan Jones lived, south of the centre of town, between the A&P Showgrounds and the Mataura River. Roughly 1.2 km away from the single level home he lived in with his ...
MONDAY I lined up the latest round of civil servants from city hall against the wall, and signalled for the firing squad to drop their rifles. I stepped up onto a wooden crate to look at the office workers in the eye. But that didn’t feel right, so I found ...
Keen hiker and second-year MSc student Liam Hewson wears two hats when he’s in the great outdoors. “The scientist in me appreciates nature and goes, ‘Oh, there’s that thing and there’s another thing,’ but then the tramper and the outdoorsy person in me thinks, ‘Cool bush.’” Born and bred in ...
After a long and illustrious career as a goal kicker, Dan Carter’s favourite way to unwind is… kicking goals. Why can’t he get enough of it? And what it’s like to watch him do it for an hour straight? A semicircle of people wielding cameras and phones has formed in ...
Dame Susan Devoy takes us through her life in television, including late night ER debriefs, her proudest CTI moment and the show she watches in secret. Quite aside from her four world champion squash titles, Dame Susan Devoy will likely go down in history as one of the best Celebrity ...
Hera Lindsay Bird reveals the best places in Ōtepoti to score more for your apocalypse-prep book hoard.Sometimes I get the feeling I’ve been killed in a car crash, and this second half of my life is just the brain unspooling itself, like one of those episodes of a hospital ...
ThreeNow’s new murder mystery series takes us on a dark, damp journey into the Australian wilderness.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. High Country is ThreeNow’s new Australian eight-part crime drama, set in a remote part of the Victorian highlands. It tells ...
Introducing a new way to read The Spinoff every weekend. After nearly 10 years of being an online magazine, we’re finally embracing the weekend liftout. Despite our best efforts to convince you otherwise, writers and editors at The Spinoff don’t work weekend. It is through the sheer power of technology ...
Tip one: let yourself be nurtured by this big old man. Tip two: don’t ask him to adopt you. So, you’ve arrived at your first session with a new therapist. He tells you to make yourself comfortable and you opt for the tweed armchair, hoping it makes you look like ...
I didn’t know books could open you back up; that there were books that stayed with you, where reading was like a chemical event. I knew nothing.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.Not too long ago, I was listening to the American ...
Former Olympic swimmer James Magnussen has already started training for the Enhanced games, though says he won’t start taking performance enhancing substances until about nine months out from the competition. The Australian world champion was the first athlete to be announced by Enhanced, but he says the organisation has had ...
Everyone thinks he’s dead. Every day they expect his body to be washed up along the coast. Most likely up Karitane way, the way the tide’s running. But nobody’ll be too surprised if his body’s never found. Even in death he wouldn’t have wished for such attention. He would have ...
Council members voted 21 to 4 in favour of Ahluwalia returning to the Laucala campus following a much-awaited meeting in Vanuatu this week. It comes as USP and its two unions — the Association of the University of the South Pacific Staff (AUSPS) and the Administration and Support Staff Union ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nicola Henry, Professor & Australian Research Council Future Fellow, Social and Global Studies Centre, RMIT University Shutterstock Following an emergency meeting of the National Cabinet this week, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has announced a raft of measures to tackle the problem ...
Analysis - A poll showing the opposition is more popular than the government raises questions, politicians go through their 'trial by pay rise' and a Green MP loses her cool in the debating chamber. ...
The entire stretch of Tokomaru Bay on the East Coast will be subject to a joint customary marine title for two hapū, and extending up to four miles out to sea. A High Court judge has found the two groups, who during the case settled a dispute over boundaries for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Hall, Lecturer, Media & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University A longstanding feud between TikTok and Universal Music Group seems to have finally reached an end, with both parties signing a deal that will see Universal-backed music returned to the social media ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Siobhan O’Dean, Postdoctoral Research Associate, The Matilda Centre for Research in Mental Health and Substance Use, University of Sydney After several highly publicised alleged murders of women in Australia, the Albanese government this week pledged more than A$925 million over five years ...
Political parties have now fully disclosed the donations they received last year - with National getting more than double the cash of any other party. ...
A Pacific regionalism expert has called out New Zealand's Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters for withholding information from the public on AUKUS military pact. ...
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Our local high school is having a "tremendous" planting day today, turning what was recently a pine forest plantation beside the playing fields, into a mixed forest/orchard/learning space. I'm providing heritage apple trees from the local area as well as guidance for planting out the learning-space with natives. Every little bit helps!
That sounds wonderful. I'd be right in my element there combining education and ecology…
What a great idea Robert, and great that it is turned into action.
What an exciting project. Do you do anything special about planting in that ex-pine area, or just as normal?
Pine needles are an excellent mulch around strawberries, they love the acid.
What a great project Robert!
I hope it has longevity
It'd be really good to have some of the students observing and recording changes and evolution of the area.That project could be inherited by a particular class each year so that a long term study could eventuate. Turn the kids on to be observant, how to identify and research species that volunteer, how to do surveys/gridding , photograph and record yearly.
Could be quite a turning point for some kids
+100 I only wish there was a similar initiative around various spots in Wellingon.
At one time many years back, the Council nursery would provide various natives, and even fruit trees (maybe they still do).
Unfortunately the support has become a bit half-hearted lately so that when plants get damaged by things such as careless weed spraying, or dumping of rubbish, or even overflowing of sewers, nothing ever gets done.
I contrast that with initiatives such as yours @Robert and places around Paekakariki where there are little food basket plantations that are accessible to anyone and everyone.
Paekakariki I love you. You deserve a song for doing good things and showing other places the way to be.
Similar initiatives around Wellington? You perhaps need to get out and about a bit more OWT. There are numerous re-vegetation oriented groups and individuals planting and maintaining numerous sites around Wellington. Yes, the Council still has a nursery – in fact a large very productive unit that supplies community groups and even lone-wolf types with MoU's with up to 500 endemic seedlings annually.
Hark at "You perhaps need to get out and about a bit more OWT."
Perhaps I would if there was still a decent bus service and I was still able to walk as far as I once was.
Around where I live, the Olive trees no longer get harvested, any initiatives (such being a 'friend' of the fruit trees planted by Council) are rendered useless by lack of support by Council – such as actually enforcing penalties for leaking sewers or dumping of toxic rubbish, or even over-enthusiastic weed spraying that kills some of the trees that dedicated people in the neighbourhood have planted. And in some places, anything is just as likely to be surreptitiously poisoned by gentrifiers worried about their view being interrupted.
But yes, I'm aware that a lot of people are making the effort – it's just a shame priorities aren't what they once were.
These days, the only thing I seem to be able to grow for harvest successfully is head hair
So OWT, you live in Mt Vic eh? Why were olives planted there in the first place? Not a wise choice since even if harvested, the fruit would be un-usable. As for the other ills you refer to, are they ever reported? It seems that if people bother to report water or sewer leaks or the dumping of toxic waste, those matters are attended to very quickly. Unfortunately, we seem to live in a society where people seem think such problems will magically be resolved by some ethereal entity who is expected to be aware when there are problems. On the up-side, the re-vegetation of Mt Victoria is steadily progressing on the back of voluntary labour and Council support. Much credit also needs to be given to the trappers whose efforts are providing a safer environment for native birds of varying species that were not there in the not very distant past.
Christ – you must work for WCC.
I could give you a list of reference numbers related to people reporting things. And the problem isn't with the mere peons operating at the 'coal face' – such as the living waged parking wardens, or what's left of a parks and reserve department, or those long suffering staff in service centres. Like central gummint, it's with the masters of the Universe that 'supervise' them.
Winston interprets the Nats: "I thought the previous National Party was the worst National Party I’d ever seen. For a fact they’d lost the mantra and the ideology and common approach of people like Holyoake and others in the past to now being a bunch of cloned neoliberals.” https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-08-2019/twos-company-threes-a-crowd-labour-nz-first-and-the-greens-on-election-2020/https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/17-08-2019/twos-company-threes-a-crowd-labour-nz-first-and-the-greens-on-election-2020/
So looks like the jockeying for position is under way, but don't discount the collegial feeling evident in the various quotes. If they can retain that while defining their positions it will keep the coalition govt on a constructive track which will deliver electoral benefits for all three. Voters like to see consensus politics actually working.
"Robertson said the coalition and confidence and supply agreements were the starting point for all negotiations and there was a general acceptance any differences should be worked out before policy gets to Cabinet committees."
We've seen a few hiccups when that theory hasn't been seen to work in practice. I suspect they were caused by underlings failing to absorb instructions sufficiently. I hope those doing the implementation of the strategy have learnt from their mistakes. The more professional the process looks from here on, the more likely centrists will decide it is a reliable prospect for further delivery, and the more likely centrists as a group will select a center-left mix next election.
One thing I would acknowledge in the Nats is that they wouldn't, at the last minute, pull the rug out from under their coalition partner and senior minister. A la abortion reform.
Edit
I suppose this has already been noted – just saw.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/396841/hannah-tamaki-s-coalition-new-zealand-political-party-registration-rejected
Sort of interesting – a thumbnail picture in a list of news items in Featured Stories (down from The Briefing which is under the latest items) is about the three parties and how they will relate their differences for the next election.
The pics are James Shaw, Grant Robertson, Winston Peters.
This is the item showing the circular table with Cabinet around it and PM Ardern in front.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/396807/two-s-company-three-s-a-crowd-governing-parties-tell-it-like-it-is
I saw that on One News last night, was glad the dumb name got rejected by the EC. Seemed like an attempt to deceive voters impressed by the coalition govt making consensus politics work. They ought to call their re-run the Holy Rock & Rollers because catchy names appeal to folks.
Hip hop – and vote for us.
Rebel Tories hint at support for Corbyn as interim PM
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/rebel-tories-hint-support-for-corbyn-as-interim-pm-spm7hbjpq
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7361295/A-Jeremy-Corbyn-government-damaging-No-Deal-Brexit-says-TORY-backbencher.html
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1166390/Brexit-news-jeremy-corbyn-no-deal-brexit-tory-remainers
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/08/15/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-jeremy-corbyn-no-deal/
Boris must be feeling like a skier teetering at the top of an iced-over snow-slope. Skids really are under him now. Just a matter of time…
Well Trump won't be inviting him to Greenland where there might be some snow, if he is there on the right day.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/396887/greenland-tells-trump-we-re-not-for-sale
Jeremy Corbyn has tried to assess the best thing to do out of a dismal selection of possibilities regarding the Brexit disaster. He has written to MPs who might back his latest idea for finding a pathway to a reasoned outcome. (This from Yorick above.)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7361295/A-Jeremy-Corbyn-government-damaging-No-Deal-Brexit-says-TORY-backbencher.html
In the letter, Mr Corbyn said: 'Following a successful vote of no confidence in the government, I would then, as Leader of the Opposition, seek the confidence of the House for a strictly time-limited temporary government with the aim of calling a general election, and securing the necessary extension of Article 50 to do so.
'In that general election, Labour will be committed to a public vote on the terms of leaving the European Union, including an option to Remain.'
Mr Corbyn said he hoped his plan would 'halt the serious threat of No Deal, end the uncertainty and disarray, and allow the public to decide the best way ahead for our country'. …
The magic number for a majority in the House of Commons is 320 because while there are 650 MPs, the speaker and his three deputies do not vote while Sinn Fein's seven MPs do not take their seats.
Labour currently has 247 MPs – a long way short of the 320 needed – and there is no guarantee all of Mr Corbyn's backbenchers would support him becoming PM given some of them oppose his leadership while others are adamant Brexit must not be delayed again.
But for many on the Tory side its all a game and they have to win whatever their Party has decided; their creditworthiness depends on it. And the other side are awful Communists.
Tory MP Philip Davies said: 'Jeremy Corbyn is desperate. He stood on a manifesto promise at the last general election to leave the EU and honour the result of the referendum.
'He will do anything to grab power to inflict his Marxist extremism on the country – even ditching his promises to voters.
'Nobody would ever forgive any Conservative MP who acted to bring about a Marxist prime minister. This is a Marxist attempted coup.'
Have a look at how Farage harangues his audience, virtually beating them over the head with his message.
High-speed train will be used to ferry medicine to the UK from France in £25million No Deal Brexit plan
Medicines after Brexit have to be paid for by EU residents in Britain, immediately. Seems they are doing an Oz-Kiwi approach. Interesting how global we get business-wise, while people-wise we are becoming narrow, national even provincial.
The UK Health Minister is Chris Skidmore – an unfortunate name for a politician under pressure.
[The train] will deliver small parcels of medicine every day, and larger quantities of medicine every two to four days….
he Government is spending £434million to ensure the continuity of vital medicines and medical products, including through stockpiling.
Any interested providers have until August 21 to submit proposals – and the successful bidder will be announced in September.
The Government has been urging pharmaceutical companies to stockpile six weeks' worth of essential medicines in the event of a No Deal Brexit.
A nostalgic approach in the UK.
Before Brexit, we lived in an age of political apathy. God, I miss it
Michael Deacon Parliamentary Sketchwriter
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/08/17/brexit-lived-age-political-apathy-god-miss/
So who has been playing with the The Standard's Time Machine over the last 12 hours or so?
* Now 19 comments with Anne’s one dated 17 August.
I had nothing to do with it – I promise. I've been tucked up in my little blue box clutching my crystals and taking grewarshark's advice to give my brain a rest
LOLOL – not me either. If it was, I would not have stopped at the two actions above!
So, I'm the only one who is up to date then. 😉
Well done!
Yes I noticed both anomalies earlier this morning & thought wtf?? Hope the techie fix eventuates in due course…
Something similar happened a week and half back when a whole story and comments disappeared for a while . LPrent seemed to have fixed it and gave a technical explanation at the time
IIRC, he had been playing with a new RSS feed but it was bad (paraphrasing Lynn here) and something got caught in that.
I found it amusing as some of us had a discussion yesterday on Open Mike starting with OWT's comment at 10 re the fact that Eco Maori's comments appear on OM a day or two old. In my comment (below) I referred to lprent’s "Magical Time Machine" and low and behold – a couple of hours later what happens? Weka's post disappears and Mike Smith's 8 August turns up …
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16-08-2019/#comment-1646994
————
On a different but slightly related topic, yesterday in a comment under Weka's post you used a word, a prejorative (IIRC in para 3 of your comment there) that many of us find very offensive. I noted that the fact that many find that term offensive was not pointed out to you but as I have very strong feelings about the term you used, please go and look at the conversation on its use that took place here just a few days earlier on Open Mike 13 August. Weka's comment there says very clear why many people consider that term offensive; as do quite a number of other comments there.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-13-08-2019/#comment-1646122
We are trying out the anti-aging effects of the TS Time Machine in support of Extinction Rebellion but so far we’ve only managed to age a couple of years and pulled out of few grey hairs 🙁
Did you enjoy the show so far? If so, watch this space …
Oh no not the space time continuum .
That’s it! I knew we had forgotten a few dimensions!! So many dials; even Dr Who would get lost here …
(i have come up with a possible resolution of the carnivore vs. vegan imbroglio with lprent..
we could boil it down to a foot-race – i see no other way out..)
(this from fertile-land post..)
hey..i'm an old guy…wanna race up mt eden..?
it could be billed as the unreconstructed-carnivore – vs. the vegan-who-annoys..
if you win i'll eat (fake)-meat – (a prospect i dread..)
if i win – you go vegan for a month..(you may find you like it..)
my 8 yr old (vegan)-dog who is super-fit/toned could also race..we could match him up against whatever carnivore-hound you like..(i should warn you he gets to run on a long west coast beach each/every day..he is up for it..)
as am i..)
p.s. bets could be lodged – i'd plunge on me..eh..?..)
[There are plenty of annoying commenters here and you are just one of many, I’m afraid. However, I have a better resolution: tone down the dogmatism in and of your comments and engage in genuine debate. We all have different opinions and it is not about winning the argument as such; agree to disagree. Take it or leave it Phil; no bets required – Incognito]
And in repeating the same nonsense twice in an hour and a half, you've clearly lost more than a battle of wits.
a 'battle of wits'..?..
nah..!..not really…i'm just arguing the case for te animals..
and i see very little 'wit' incoming from the animal-eating p.o.v…
and interesting how the carnivore-camp doesn't factor animal-suffering into their self-justifying gyrations..
whereas that is the main reason i am there/arguing that case..
the enviro-foorprint etc. is just the reason behind/propping up that essentially emotional justification..
From the horses mouth, so to speak, and not the dead one you keep flogging.
Same old message, same old intransigence, same old end result. If you really love animals so much, how about teaching that one trick pony you rode back in on a new routine.
Edit
Perhaps philip ure you could come to an agreement with the mods and only put up one comment on veganism per day of diminished length (not spread out in double spacing – you may have to submit then go back and edit down). You make a fair point, but anybody gets sick of having points stuck into them. And that comment should be about what others are doing about veganism, ideas for recipes etc so it isn’t always the same. Your dog does well on it. You have mentioned that. What new stuff can you tell us, Once a day is manageable, if the mod agrees of course.
So just a suggestion, if you can bring it off, you can then take on an international tour teaching the world not only about veganism, but how different parties with differing views can facilitate reasonable opinions and discussions about them to take place. That could help prevent wars. So you would be performing one small step for you, but one giant one for humankind.
Speaking for myself, it is not the topic that is the issue. I personally don’t like doing ‘deals’ like that; free speech is not unconditional.
@ greywarshark..
if you want vegan recipies – you can google more of them than you can poke a stick at..
and should we apply yr insistance of something 'new' at all times to all the other topics discussed here..?
that would close everyrthing down..would it not..?
i think the reason you and most others get agitated is because you are being challenged/questioned on something you usually aren't..
and this makes you uncomfortable – especially with regards to yr self-regard..in that most here think of themselves as 'the good guys/gals' – on the right side of most debates..
whereas on this one – you clearly aren't..
and that challenge is hard to face..eh..?
vegans don't comment/push the point here – 'cos of the guaranteed vitriol/disdain they will receive…
You are an argumentative shit phillip ure and put me right off veganism, if it would give me your disease, and I hope I get banned for speaking truth.
q.e.d…eh..?
I like bacon. Just saying.
tried fake-bacon yet..?
do you know much about nz/bowel-cancer-rates/causes..?
just saying..
do you know much about nz/bowel-cancer-rates/causes..?
Don't know about Wensleydale, but in generic terms anyone who knows much about it would find your use of it as vegan propaganda comical.
are you really ignorant of the facts that red meat/bacon causes bowel cancer..?
and that nz has really high rates of red meat/bacon consumption..
and that nz has world-beating rates of bowel cancer..?
do you really not know all that..?
I know that compounding multiple correlation = causation errors to make a propaganda claim has little to do with "facts," yes.
go ask yr g.p…
this is hardly something radical i am saying..
sheesh..!..are you kidding..?..is this all 'news' to you..?
Andre's explained the problems with your propaganda claim below. Bottom line: if we take the studies claiming an association between eating red meat and bowel cancer to be accurate (a very big if), and if I were to develop bowel cancer at some point in the future, the likelihood of that cancer being a result of simple bad luck would still hugely outweigh the likelihood of it being the result of eating red meat.
I read an article about bowel cancer in The Listener a few years back that featured several vegetarians/vegans stunned that they'd developed bowel cancer despite their lifelong (in some cases) avoidance of meat. It shouldn't have come as a surprise to them because bowel cancer isn't a straightforward matter of what you eat, but like you they'd presumably read all the propaganda and assumed bowel cancer was something caused by eating meat. Falling for propaganda is human, but when people warn you it's happening you should at least consider whether they may be right.
once again – don't believe me – ask yr gp…
(and maybe try to read a bit more that 'a listener article a couple of yrs ago'..eh..?..)
and who the fuck still reads the listener..?
once again – don't believe me – ask yr gp…
1. Please look up the logical fallacy "argument from authority."
2. My GP will have the same info Andre's outlined below and which I was already familiar with, so there wouldn't be much point.
3. I've been getting wrong, harmful, terrible advice on what to eat from GPs and dietitians ever since I was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes over 30 years ago, so no I won't be asking my GP what I should eat – experience taught me the hard way not to do that.
(and maybe try to read a bit more that 'a listener article a couple of yrs ago'..eh..?..)
Sigh. I mentioned that article because it told me that vegans are swallowing a propaganda lie about bowel cancer, not because it's the sum total of my reading on the subject.
and who the fuck still reads the listener..?
Well, me, obviously. Dismissing print media as no longer fashionable is a foolish approach to information-gathering.
Gosh, do tell, phillip.
What are the annual and lifetime risks of developing bowel cancer for you, a vegan, or I, a relatively low red-meat consumer, or Psycho Milt, apparently a very high red meat consumer?
I want to get a feel for whether the risk of getting bowel cancer is high enough relative to the other risks to my health and safety that I should worry about it, and whether the excess risk from eating red meat is high enough to overcome the pleasures and other benefits from doing so.
don't believe me – go ask yr g.p…
fill in yr knowledge-gaps..eh..?
and once again – the mistreatment of animals just doesn't factor in yr thinking at all…does it..?
yr 'pleasures' from eating it over-rule all else..eh..?
so..you are who plant-based meats have been designed for..
you will get all the 'pleasure' – but without the cruelty to the animals/fucking the planet etc..
so..if those 'meats' do look/taste/texture the same as animal-flesh..and so satisfy yr 'needs'..?
will you still insist that an animal must be hurt..?
for your olfactory(and other) 'pleasures'..?
My goodness, what an unhelpful and unpersuasive response.
For anyone else interested, bowel cancer is primarily an old age disease. Your risk of getting it by age 55 is about 0.5%, if you make it to 80 your risk has gone up to about 7%.
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/bowel-cancer-2012-update_consumer.pdf
Taken at face value, correlational studies suggest eating the guideline amount of red meat (500g/week) increases those risks around 20%. Presumably, if those conclusions are accurate and not simply the result of some other influence or even just random statistical noise, heavier consumption will further increase that very small increased risk.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/112084350/red-meat-eaters-have-higher-risk-of-developing-bowel-cancer-study-finds
But to me it's a very small increase of a negligibly small risk, so it's not going to influence my lifestyle choices. Particularly given my ongoing participation in gravity sports that I'm really too old for that are a much greater risk to my health and safety.
As for the various kinds of plant-based and vat-grown substitutes for animal flesh (and other animal products), I take a keen interest in them and will enthusiastically substitute them into my diet when they get to a palatable combination of taste and texture at an acceptable price.
I've regularly posted about progress in those efforts here. Which you would know if you had any interest in what other people here have to say, instead of just coming here to proselytize for your hobbyhorses.
having not been here for some time – i clearly missed yr 'updates'..
and i ask again – the cruelties done to the animals you eat just does not factor in yr thinking..at all..?
The problems associated with animal agriculture do indeed factor into my diet choices. But not enough to drive me to go to the hassle and make the sacrifices necessary to get all my nutrient needs from a vegan diet with the choices currently available.
So reading holier-than-thou hectoring about it simply induces a fuck-you reaction. Particularly when obsessives try to use a much bigger and only slightly related problem (such as climate change) as a stalking horse.
only 'a slight connection' to climate-change..?
really..?
since when was 70% of all farmed land on planet used to fatten animals or to grow the food to feed those animals..'a slight connection'..?
The problem of how much of the planet is devoted to agriculture and subsequent emissions is more closely related to the sheer numbers of humans. If we all went vegan, the climate change impact would still be relatively small compared to energy-related climate change. A meat-heavy diet results in CO2eq emissions of 3 or 4 tonnes pa. A vegan diet is around 1.5 to 2 tonnes pa.
Whereas the much larger part of the climate change problem is very much related to lifestyle choices of the wealthy (most westerners). Profligate energy use is the biggest and most easily modifiable, along with where that energy comes from. For NZers, shutting down all fossil-fueled electricity generation in NZ and replacing it with wind would have about the same climate impact as all of us going vegan. (see p14 of this report)
Pets are also a substantial part of that impact. When I called time on my best feline buddy ever a year ago, choosing not to get another cat reduced my food-related emissions more than my going vegan would.
Bottom line is, anyone wealthy enough to be spending time arguing with strangers on the internet almost certainly has a lot of excess emissions they could eliminate from their lifestyles. We all have indulgences that we value. Trying to lay guilt trips on people with fact-and-number free assertions about specific minor aspects of their lifestyles is likely to backfire.
so the risk for a medium red meater eater at 80 is 8.4%? That's not compared to vegans though right?
I'm wondering if the people who eat less meat, eat more veg and d other healthful things, and this is where the benefit is. Then there's the kind of meat that's being eaten. And eating patterns (what's the 500gm of meat being eaten with).
Also betting that in 20 years time when we have larger numbers of people who've been long term vegan we'll start seeing various issues popping up from those diets too (especially in people who were vegan from childhood).
@weka I reckon trying to get that level of precision from the kinds of studies and data used is a fool's errand. Certainly neither piece I linked has enough info about the methods to make that kind of detailed inference.
Nevertheless, if I had to speculate, I'd guess that the 7% (which is actually my rounding of 1/15 or 6.66666%) is an average across all those that end up getting bowel cancer.
Given the average NZ meat consumption is around 2kg/week (from memory from a thread a few days ago), 4x the recommended guideline, that implies vegans/vegetarians/low meat eaters are actually few and far between. So that 20% difference in risk would translate to probably more like the risk of an 80yr old vegan/vegetarian/very low meat-eater having got bowel cancer being around 5 to 6% ish.
If that 20% difference is a real signal and not just statistical noise, then I'd still need a lot of convincing it was just red meat, rather than a whole combination of diet and lifestyle factors that tend to go together with high red meat consumption.
Phillip So it’s all about the animals treatment what’s wrong with eating eggs. Free range hens. You’d be giving them a reason to be here. In other words why not vegetarian.
@ newview..
'why not vegetarian?'
good question..
because by eating eggs (and we all know that free-range ideal u describe is few and far between – most hens live in horrendous conditions/suffering..you know that..
so by eating them you support/enable that suffering..
which brings us to cheese.etc…
the reason there (aside from the well-documented fucking of the environment) is that by eating dairy/cheese you are supporting/enabling the suffering those animals endure..
cows have a natural life-span of about 23 yrs..the cows that give yr milk are flogged out by age five – when they are sent to the slaughterhouse..
and the reason they are flogged out is because they are serially impregnated..so as to keep producing milk..
which brings us to the calves – and this brings us smack up against the insulation most have to what is done in their name..
'cos my heart has been broken/blood run cold – by the sounds of the mother cows keening for the young who are taken from them – so milk drinkers can get what they want..
not to mention the calves – crying en-mass for their mothers..
and of course they are then sent to the slaughterhouse..
listen to/experience that – and i defy you not to be moved..
(i hope all that clarifies the 'why not vegetarian?'-question for you..
anything else – just ask..
Yeah, how about actually answering the question you were asked about free range eggs without any broken, bleeding heart cow nonsense.
A certified free range grown egg is good or bad?
And while you're here, what about the organic beefy happily grazing in a paddock until the home kill man comes, with no horrendous conditions, totally free of suffering?
Or the pest species like rabbits self shot, skinned, gutted and eaten.
The AlIen is right. Just answer my question. And the 23 year old cow story is bull shit, some number you’ve made up. The cows raped to death on the farm do the same off the farm. They mate every year when there’s a bull around and in the wild there is. And by the way the wild isn’t that great. The wild works well when the weather is moderate and feed plentiful. Doesn’t always happen. I didn’t want your version of how animals feel. I believe in general farm animals here are treated better than some humans in third world countries and where there’s conflict. I just wanted to know why you wouldn’t eat an egg from a happy chook running around the house.
The causes of all cancers are multi-factorial and age and genetics are always involved. But they are by no means the only factors and neither is meat consumption the only dietary risk factor associated with the incidence of bowel cancer.
For those who are genuinely interested in this: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/112807979/more-young-kiwis-getting-bowel-cancer-is-tip-of-iceberg-says-expert
This might be the Listener article that Psycho Milt (above) referred to: https://www.noted.co.nz/health/health-health/why-bowel-cancer-is-a-national-emergency
'neither is meat consumption the only dietary risk factor associated with the incidence of bowel cancer.'
what are the other 'dietary risk factors'..?
what else do i need to give up..
Alcohol would be the most obvious. Do some reading.
i don't use alcohol – pot is my relaxant of choice..
anything else..?
Don't be so lazy. If you want to have strong opinions, do the reading. Otherwise, show some respect and moderate your claims accordingly.
This isn’t about you, Phil. Otherwise we’d call TS Phil’s blog for Phil’s hobby-horse and pet-project and only for Phil to read and comment 😉 A bit of a mouthful but you get the gist, don’t you?
@ incognito..
'this isn't about you'..
um..!..i was answering a question asked – as have most of my comments in this thread been..
and this isn't some word-game/hobby-horse for me..
i feel very deeply/strongly about these issues..
and the industrial-scale cruelties done to animals – each/every day..
..just so people can eat them..
No, you were responding to Sacha who hadn’t asked a question at all. It is you who’s asking all the questions.
Yes, we know you “feel very deeply/strongly about these issues” but you seem to lose sight of other factors involved. And you don’t like to be challenged. In fact, you become quite belligerent if not dogmatic.
Your argument about meat consumption and bowel cancer was incomplete if not misleading. By removing one risk factor, one does not remove all other risk, obviously. Vegans do get bowel cancer. Non-smokers do get lung cancer as this sad story today shows: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/114742604/auckland-nonsmokers-little-cough-turned-out-to-be-terminal-lung-cancer
Not all meat eaters get bowel cancer, not all smokers get lung cancer, and not all drivers under the influence of alcohol causes crashes. No shit, Sherlock!
@ sacha – i have been reading about/onto this issue for 40 yrs..
so i am puzzled by yr exhortation that i should 'go do some reading'..
i don't know everything on it – ut i feel i have a reasonble grasp..
so if you have any real questions – instead of just mindless hectoring – i wd be happy to recall what i have read – for you..
i can't do more than that..
Phil, you seem to "feel" quite a lot but it's a poor basis for a conversation about anything that involves other forms of evidence than our emotions.
After serving for several years on one of the advisory groups for the NZ bowel cancer screening pilot programme, I do not have any questions for you. Why would I?
oh wow..!..seeing as you know all about it sacha..
how about sharing with the rest of us – what yr 'advisory-board' – actually advised..?
as to what are the causes of bowel cancer..
don't hold back – spread the knowledge..
[Phil, you seem to be deliberately misreading comments. Why is that, Phil? Can’t you handle an evidence-based opinion that does not squarely align with your “belief”?
Sacha never said or claimed to “know all about it”.
Sacha referred to a screening pilot programme. You do know what screening means, don’t you, Phil? It means the focus is not necessarily on (the) underlying causes or risk factors but on (early) detection and diagnosis.
Why do you ask for Sacha to “spread the knowledge”? You have done 40 years of reading, as you said yourself, but you don’t seem to read links in this discussion thread nor the Listener.
IMO you are not debating in good faith and you don’t want to change your habits here. Both you and I know how this is going to end but it is your choice, Phil. TS has provided you with a free platform and bandwidth but you don’t seem to be showing any respect or gratitude for this – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 2:40 PM.
You didn’t read the links, did you? Why am I not surprised; I even italicised the key words 😉
You wrongly conclude that it is all about “giving up” or “cutting out”. Rather, it is about balance and moderation – homeostasis or equilibrium for well-being, if you like. For example, decrease the ‘bad’ factors and increase the ‘good’ ones.
To stay in the context of bowel cancer and a healthy gut microflora (AKA gut microbiome), you may have heard of probiotics, the so-called good guys, in contrast to the bad ones that are pathogenic and disease-causing (incl. cancer). More importantly, it is about balance. Heard of faecal transplants? They are the new rage, it seems, the new frontier.
You may also be familiar with this ancient saying, which is as truthful as they come:
Never a truer word spoken about substance abuse and drug addiction (incl. alcohol). Same principle applies to diet (and lifestyle).
Do you comment here in good faith? Are you interested in genuine debate?
I'll hypothesis that good gut health for many people also needs some degree of animal fat. This one reason why some ex-vegans get an improvement in digestion when they stop being vegan. Probably related to fat soluble vitamins too.
We’ve been eating animal products for a very long time, long enough for there to be biology to have evolved from the advantage of animal foods.
We’ve been eating animal products for a very long time, long enough for there to be biology to have evolved from the advantage of animal foods.
Exactly. We evolved as omnivores, which is why vegans have to go to some effort to ensure their diet doesn't leave them with various nutritional deficiencies, and why it's a really bad idea to try and wean a toddler onto a vegan diet.
heh..!…'ex-vegans'..know a lot of them do ya..?
'ex-vegans get an improvement in digestion when they stop being vegan'..
heh..!..got anything to back this up..?..or did the many 'ex-vegans' you know tell you this..?
and this 'ex-vegan' sub-subculture: are there a lot of them..?
do they have a website..?
and are 'hypothesise' and 'probably' other words for/covering an orifice-pluck..?
'ex-vegan' (and their doings) joins 'insane religious tracts' and 'disease' as ongoing chuckles from this thread..
In 'murica there's apparently about 5 ex-vegan/vegetarians for every actual current vegan/vegetarian.
https://www.sciencealert.com/new-study-reveals-84-of-vegetarians-return-to-meat
Doesn't say whether they've formed a distinct sub-culture.
@ p.m..
re 'nutritional deficiences'..
i don't use/take supplements..a good diet'll see ya right..
and i am calling complete and utter bullshit on yr dangers to children from going vegan..
i know more than enough examples of healthy vegan children to know you are talking a total crock..
(you really are one for that 'burn-them-at-the-stake! irrational bullshit..aren't you..?
hysterical claims made – without a feckin' shred of evidence to back them up..?..yr clearly talking to p.m..)
…complete and utter bullshit on yr dangers to children…
Ah-huh…
https://theconversation.com/why-vegan-diets-for-babies-come-with-significant-risks-108466
Just one of the early ones of the 842,000 hits from searching for vegan infant nutritional deficiencies.
'ex-vegans'..know a lot of them do ya..?
I do. Ex-vegans and ex-vegetarians, more than I can easily count.
'ex-vegans get an improvement in digestion when they stop being vegan'
heh..!..got anything to back this up..?..or did the many 'ex-vegans' you know tell you this..?
Yes, the ex-veg people talk about their experiences. It's common enough that patterns appear. I really hope medical science gets on the ball with this in the coming decade.
Best place to see people talking about health issues from being vegan is youtube. Plenty of high profile, committed vegans, who had their health collapse and then went through a pretty harsh process often over years of giving up their ideology so they could be well.
and this 'ex-vegan' sub-subculture: are there a lot of them..?
I think there are *increasing numbers, and as I said above, I know enough to not be easily able to estimate how many.
do they have a website..?
This site has been around for a long time http://www.beyondveg.com/ I'm sure there are others.
and are 'hypothesise' and 'probably' other words for/covering an orifice-pluck..?
Only if you are either stupid or disingenuous. If not, then both those words were used with care to convey meaning.
'ex-vegan' (and their doings) joins 'insane religious tracts' and 'disease' as ongoing chuckles from this thread..
I don't know what that means, but will assume that you think there is no such thing as an ex-vegan. I'm not surprised, because vegans wanting to eat meat are considered traitors and they won’t be talking to *you. The other emerging social dynamic is the immense social pressure that young people are under to remain vegan when their health is deteriorating. This is dangerous.
It comes from vegan fundamentalism that would rather see young women with multiple health problems than admit that some people's health is better for eating even small amounts of animal products. Some people are ok on a vegan diet, some aren't. It's a problem that we now have social groups acting like cults with regards to good choices.
That ex-veg link is interesting. We can also factor in the people that eat animal products occasionally but still call themselves vegetarian or vegan. Which is not a problem except for the fundamentalists who insist it is wrong.
so you are presenting the incrementalist point of view – 'do everything – but in moderation'..
i often rail at laour/this gummint – for being so incrementalist – and doing nowhere near enough..
those arguments wd spill over in replies to yr incrementalist arguments on this..
and yes..i have heard about 'probiotics'…
and i remember reading recently (sorry – don't have link – but the results from a big/credible study) that probiotics are a marketing pile-of-bullshit..
that people have been suckered into this thing as some sort of salve to the bacon-eating etc. aspects of their life..
i understand the latest thinking on them is that they are a crock..
and solve/salve nothing..
i have heard of faecal transplants..don't need one myself – but i understand they do work for people who have monstered their own digestive systems..
'the dose makes the poison'..
um..!..no..like most slogans – it is simplistic – and often used as an excuse by people who can't face giving up anything..
in my case – one shot of heroin wd have me right back there..
and for alcoholics the same stricture applies…so..
what would make you question if i comment here 'in good faith'..(whatever definiton you apply to that..)
and again with the 'genuine debate'..
i asked previously..cd you plse define what you see this as..?
and once again – i ask what would make you even ask that 'genuine debate' question..of me..and yet of no others..
and if you define debate as the battle of ideas – that is certainly what i am doing – in my arguments for the animals..eh..?
@ incognito..
(sigh..!..yes..strictly speaking it wasn't a question – it was an admonition – but one that needed a reply..
but my point stands that most of my comments here have been in response to what you (and others) have said to me..'n'est ce pas..?'
u said: 'And you don’t like to be challenged. In fact, you become quite belligerent'
given i have been called 'insane' – 'a nutter' – 'diseased'(!)..a 'reader of insane religious tracts' etc etc.(that 'religious tracts.' one is still causing a chuckle..greys' 'disease' one is also a little ripper..
where have i come anywhere within coo-ee of nasty shit like that..?
in fact..seeing as you are accusing..how about some examples of my 'belligerence'..?
i think you are mistaking 'belligerence' for having yr beliefs challenged..
they are different..eh..?
and yes – there are generally exceptions to most rules…but those exceptions do not in any way automatically overturn the/any thesis presented..do they..
(and as a footnote – cd i say that i approach all this in good spirits..i am not sitting here raging against those giving me their best shots..
i have been for a walk along the cliffs with my dogs – they are now sunning their bellys..i had a wicked breakfast/lunch…and i just smoked a stonking joint of good outdoors..
and really..i feel the hippies/60's gave us a lot – they were right about so many things..
and one takeaway that i have tried to live by is a cartoon..
it is a furry freak bros one..
where they face the readers – and say something to live by..
'remember kiddies..!.when yr smashing the state – always keep a smile on yr lips – and a song in yr heart'..
that is what i am doing here – in a small way – helping smash the (animal-slavery) state..
but not forgetting to chuckle on the way..eh..?
See my Moderation note @ 10:54 AM.
a special award for subjectivity there..eh..?
iprent calls me 'insane'..a nutter….etc etc….
where the fuck have i ever said anything anywhere near that..?
'tone down the dogmatism'..what the fuck does that even mean..?
should i say stop eating animals 'sometimes'..?
and engage in 'genuine debate'..w.t.f. does that even mean…?
the reactionary-authoritarianiam here is such you could bottle it..
why are you all so frightened/angered by having what you think is yr god given fucken right to mistreat/eat animals challenged..?
[You seem confused, Phil. I’m not Lprent but I do find you annoying. You pretend to not know what it is about so let me spell it out for you again: your behaviour here. If you don’t want to engage in genuine but robust debate then say so and go for a run on the beach or somewhere else …
BTW, if I could bottle it, I’d sell it; there seems to be a willing market for it – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 11:19 AM.
i am not confused – i am aware you are not iprent (i spoke of him in the 3rd person)
i was indicating the feral abuse heaped on me..that's ok..eh..?…i can start doing that..can i..?…just engaging in personal abuse..?
and cd you please define (more than a (repeated) amorphous slogan) exactly what you mean by 'genuine' 'robust' debate..?…(that which you urge me to engage in..)
my debate is certainly 'genuine'….and you all seem to find it more than 'robust' enough..
i do not engage in personal abuse of anyone..
so what are you actually asking of me..?..you are correct..i do not know..
fings are getting kinda kafkaesque here..eh..?
you know what the reaction will be and you still do it as you said upstream
I'm not sure your goal is to turn people vegan
I don't think the victim role suits you and you are not a victim
just get on with it eh ffs
well what do you think my 'goal' is..?
i feel in no way a victim..
and i should stop arguing for the animals – 'cos people don't like it – it disturbs them..?
um..!..no..!..eh..?
I like what you write and have no issue with that
My point was that you aren't a victim
as to your 'goal' – I don't really care – I live with meat eaters who I love – I haven't eaten flesh willingly for 39 years. wtf would I know. And yes as a prelude to any reply, I am not a vegan, just a vegetarian. I'm close but still addicted even though I know more than most the horrors of the products I consume.
chrs..
funny story..!..vegetarians often react as vehemently as flesh-eaters – to suggestions they cease and desist on the dairy..
aside from addiction to cheese (heh..!) i put part of that reaction down to what i was trying to point out to grey – that like many here they view themselves as the good guys/gals – and that being challenged/questioned does not sit well with them..
(and when i was vegetarian for all those years before i went vegan – i used to think vegans were 'a bit weird'/'taking it a bit too far'..
perspectives/certainties change..i have found..)
and i wd insist that i do not in any way feel i am ‘a victim’..
and in fact just the opposite – compared to other parts/times of my life – i am feeling very strong/happy in my bones..
and plan on going and standing with/fighting with the extinction rebellion crew..
when that really kicks off here..
i am ready…
onya
I do have to say I am often surprised and amused by the vehemence of the arguments you inspire – I think some guilt must be there otherwise wtf?
aye..!
I have to say @ Incognito, and in defense of Phil and magic scooters, and without trying to sound too much like a pompous git, it's not that unusual for people to switch addictions as part of recovery into something a little less self-destructive. I only wish one of my siblings had been able to do likewise he'd have been a force to be reckoned with.
I'll get back to clutching me mystical crystals and dealing with me inner peace now but I'm sure the magic scooter will eventually prove its worth – maybe along with the Jubilation Choir on loop
Oh…… EDIT: Convicted and Discharged Mr Ure.
Stand down!
(sorry about yr brother – i lost people i still think of almost daily..and like yr brother giants in their own right..what could have been..etc..
hello bernie – hello nick..)
and you are correct – post-heroin many turn to alcoholism – i chose veganism (heh..!)
no hangovers there…
Btw Phil, it's more than likely we've met many years ago – we certainly have one or two mutual acquaintances/friends, or at least at a 2 degrees of separation.
Pleased to know you're still making it. Thankfully I realised very early on that if you hang around the barber shop, it's not long before you get your hair clipped
chrs…
Why do you "dread" eating "(fake) meat"? You might end up liking it.
Anyway, most carnivores would beat me in a foot race, because I enjoy exercise more than I like tofu – but not by all that much.
it has been four decades since i are animal flesh ..
and i have no desires for those tastes/textures..
but i think they are a wonderful innovation for those who can't stop eating animals 'cos they like those tastes/textures..
have some fake meat that tastes/textures like animal stuff..
fill yer boots..!
"Why do you "dread" eating "(fake) meat"? You might end up liking it."
Same reason I'd dread having to eat margarine instead of butter. Science just isn't *that clever yet.
marg isn't the only choice..is it..?
and i haven't used buttery spreads – in the main..
avo/hummus etc render butter as irrelevant..
You'd eat a jam sandwich with avocado or chick peas on it?
no…jam goes with peanut butter – end-of-story…
Without butter or marge? The only spreading going on is your apparent lunacy.
@ weka..and how do you feel about 'fake' ice-cream..?
the news for the dairy industry just keeps getting worse and worse..
'What’s so revolutionary about Perfect Day is that they are the first company to bring lab-produced dairy to market. You read that right: this is dairy, molecularly identical to cow’s milk, it’s just made entirely without animals – think clean meat but for milk. Perfect Day is calling their product flora-based dairy, and it’s made by taking the essential genes of dairy and adding them to microflora. Then, a fermentation process is used to yield milk. I’m not a scientist so don’t ask me to elaborate further, gurl. Here’s a cute video that explains it':
https://veganista.co/2019/08/16/i-just-tried-the-worlds-first-dairy-based-ice-cream-made-without-animals/
oo-err..!..eh..?
and this: (from above link..)
'The truly exciting thing about flora-based dairy is all the other applications for this stuff. You know what I’m talking about ladies: CHEESE!!! Not that the vegan cheeses on the market aren’t good (thank you, Miyoko) – but can you imagine vegan cheeses that are identical to dairy cheeses that melt and stretch and all that – and NO ANIMALS were exploited? Genius!'..
the dairy industry is fucked..eh..?…
dairy farmers are like stable-owners just after the arrival of the first motor-cars..
still arrogant/certain in their business-model – but a subtext of deep unease…
Well, I'm off to paint something. Then I can watch the paint dry.
I'll be over here, washing my hair.
Cannabis poll: Support plummets for legal pot
But just 39 per cent of those who take part in a new survey carried out by Horizon Research – commissioned by New Zealand's largest licensed medicinal cannabis company, Helius Therapeutics – have said they support legalising the personal use of cannabis.
Support in the survey – which featured 1003 respondents – is down from 52 per cent in April, and 60 per cent in November last year.
What's going on here. Can't NZs see that criminalising cannabis hasn't been helpful in controlling it. Are we just a bunch of spineless jellyfish who can't make a stand on anythuing if there is any problem associated with that position?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12258491
Yeah, right…
Who's business model goes all to poop when everyone's growing their own or buying "recreational" packaged weed, rather than their "medicinal" product at "medicinal" prices along with all the "medicinal" hoops you'll have to jump through.
Bloody drug dealers, can’t trust them an inch.
Shoes good NZ business news. https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018709147/from-football-to-footwear-tim-brown-of-allbirds
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12259200
No, no a thousand times no. No good can come of this at all.
I think it's simple if those on home detention can vote despite having convictions in the court, often for fraud of quite high amounts, it should revert to the three year limit as it was before the National Party messed with it.
Even simpler, no parole no vote
Why disenfranchise prisoners? Are you planning to lock up so many people that the political terrain changes?
When you're convicted you lose certain rights and voting is one of them, they do not deserve the right (and privilege) to vote until they've finished their sentence.
Prisoners have far too many rights while ignoring their responsibilites so no they shouldn't get even more unearned rights
Rights and privileges are different things. Privileges are rewards for positive behaviour. Rights are not earned. Rights are automatic, unless they conflict with the rights of other people. Failure to deliver on responsibilities loses privileges, not rights.
Specifically, I can see why criminals are imprisoned: their right to freedom conflicts with the rights of people to control their own property and bodies, and to live without fear. The purpose is public safety and the safety of specific individuals by isolating the offender and dissuading further offending (via punishment and rehabilitation).
But why prevent someone voting? It's unrelated to their offending (with very few offenders). It doesn't affect anyone else's rights. It doesn't provide protection to anyone. It just seems like societal petulance at best, and intentional alienation, humiliation, and dehumanisation at worst.
Thank you, McFlock, for your clear exposition. I agree with you and am now clear as to why what PR said was somehow wrong.
I would add that keeping prisoners away from being alienated from society is a good thing as they will need to be reintroduced to free society.
Am I right in saying that another problem with disenfranchising prisoners only is that other criminals who may have even done worse but who avoid imprisonment (like that young man recently kept out of jail because of his sporting ability) do not necessarily lose this right to vote.
Finally, the point that wholesale disenfranchisement of many members of a class of people as with the blacks in America can happen, as it did under such laws as possession of marijuana which also resulted in loss of voting strength. 10,000 inmates who can't vote is about half an MP in MMP electoral terms. You refer to this in 11.2 I see.
Yes, it's absolutely insane in the USA. I believe the NZ effect is somewhat limited because we only do it to current inmates – they get the vote back once released. In the US, it varies state by state but does result in large areas being significantly disenfranchised. This is a deliberate tactic by US conservatives over decades.
In NZ our prisoners are distributed across the country, so I doubt any single facility will flip an electorate from true-blue to a gang party. Except as a stepping-stone to permantly disenfranchise many Māori (disproportionately represented in our prison population), I can't see any point to disenfranchising current inmates (let alone seeing any real justification).
I can't see any point to reinstating voting rights to current inmates (let alone seeing any real justification).
I barely hear anything from prisoners about voting except for the odd comment about legalizing dope so its not likes theres a massive out cry for it
Setting it up would be a nightmare especially around security of the vote itself but most importantly its a right the prisoners have voluntarily given up so they don't get it back until they're released
Maybe before I started work as a Corrections Officer I might have thought your views had merit but now, after coming up to 6 months contact with prisoners, I know that its a pointless exercise only designed to make people in ivory towers feel good about themselves
I suppose the recurring "nightmare" was before your time. They only removed it under the previous government.
I'm not sure you'd like the "not many use it, so most barely notice it's gone" argument applied to any of your own rights.
Theres no solid arguement for giving back voting to prisoners, theres no upside and only downside with increased workloads for little to no gain but then I suppose its easy to say what should happen when you arn't going to have anything to do with the actual implementation
The solid argument is that voting is a right, and if we limit it for no reason then what sort of "democracy" are we?
This isn't "giving" anyone anything. It's merely us stopping an abuse of power that we are committing.
These prisoners choose to live outside of societies norms so no they don't get to fully participate in society and they certainly don't get to help shape society either
Dude, seriously? People choosing to live outside societal norms don't get to fully participate or vote?
Implementation is a red herring. Believing that they are not entitled is at least an honest position to argue.
Because Prisoners need to know, to understand, that their actions are bad, very bad and that negative actions have consequences and since one of the greatest privileges someone can have is to vote it should be withdrawn from a prisoner until such time as they've earned back the right to vote
"It just seems like societal petulance at best, and intentional alienation, humiliation, and dehumanisation at worst."
You want these people to vote then all they to do to vote is not do that thing that sent them to prison
Thats all they have to do but they don't want to fully follow the rules of society so they don't get to fully participate in society
We don't take away their rights, they by their actions do
So we take people, lock them up, have judges lecture them, social workers talk at them, have them hear victim impact statements and restorative justice meetings, isolate them away from everyone else, but nobody realises they did a bad thing until you stop them from registering to vote?
Even if your argument were the case – that disenfranchisement is unrelated to the offending, merely punitive – I can't help but think that maybe it's the result of a lens that shows what would be a punishment to you. I suspect that if someone already feels somewhat alienated or maligned by society, it's just another gob of spit flung at them but not a meaningful sacrifice.
But voting is, however, an opportunity to keep or make some social connection. There are more than a few alienated people who have never filled in an official form in their lives – might be a way in.
"but nobody realises they did a bad thing until you stop them from registering to vote?"
Now you're getting it, finally, no they don't think they did bad things. If they hurt someone then that person deserved it, they asked for it. If they stole something from someone well thats ok because they wanted it, if they raped someone well she was leading them on and she really did want and now shes making up lies etc etc
They don't think like you and I so giving them the vote is meaningless
"But voting is, however, an opportunity to keep or make some social connection."
Once they're in they get more social connection then they've likely ever had, they get the opportunity to live, coexist, interact with all types of people, they have the opportunity to work, to get an education, to become socialised. Voting is not required if thats what you think is needed.
"There are more than a few alienated people who have never filled in an official form in their lives – might be a way in."
Do you know how many official forms they fill in? I don't know because it a helluva lot but off the top of my head if you want a nurses visit, complain to the PCO, buy something, get a tv, a job, study, do a hobby, get a stereo, change your diet etc etc its all about filling out forms so again voting is not required
The forms thing, ok – was thinking of a person I met who was on the outside. Lived in gangs, worked cash, no ID, DL, tax, census…
But if voting isn't a big deal to them, giving them the opportunity isn't overly onerous, is it. It's not a punishment to deny them votes. It's just a pointless removal of a right from the few who might wish to practise it.
For no reason. It fills no objective, serves no purpose.
"But if voting isn't a big deal to them, giving them the opportunity isn't overly onerous, is it"
Yes it is because what you're wanting is to increase the workload for staff that are already stretched
"It's just a pointless removal of a right from the few who might wish to practise it."
If they want to practice it then all they need to is not do the thing that sent them to prison, we don't remove their right they by their actions remove their right
"For no reason. It fills no objective, serves no purpose."
It helps to reinforce the notion that they need to earn their redemption, that prison is not a good place to be because you lose rights and that if you don't want to lose rights then you stay on the right side of the law
In the hundred or so years we had voting in prisons, how terrible was it?
And again, if its only purpose is as a punishment then it needs to be something they will miss – which you think most won't.
Don't kid yourself: this is something that we recently chose to do to them. You're argument is the same as "if you don't want to be hit in the face, don't be a dick. I'm not the one hitting you in the face, you are because you're being a dick". It's the petulant removal of access to a right. It's not related to the crime, and where noticed it won't be rehabilitative.
"In the hundred or so years we had voting in prisons, how terrible was it?"
Doesn't matter, they shouldn't have had it then and they shouldn't get it back now
"And again, if its only purpose is as a punishment then it needs to be something they will miss – which you think most won't."
As a single thing no it won't but it is another to them and, hopefully, all those reminders will add up
"Don't kid yourself: this is something that we recently chose to do to them."
It was wrong for them to have the vote and now that wrong has been corrected.
"You're argument is the same as "if you don't want to be hit in the face, don't be a dick. I'm not the one hitting you in the face, you are because you're being a dick"
These people are, mostly, simple and they respond to simple and clear messages so yeah don't want to lose the vote or any other right then don't commit the crime.
"It's the petulant removal of access to a right. It's not related to the crime, and where noticed it won't be rehabilitative."
Its not petulent as noted previously and having the vote will only cause more problems again as note previously
Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to bed because I have a shift in the morning in ISU where hopefully I won't have to be doing constant obs on suicide risks (again) or call in assistance for another person that pulled out the stitches on their arm and are bleeding out (again) or console a pedo/rapist that no they're not going to die because they heard on TV they were going to die (yes really, again) or have a discussion with a prisoner as to why they shouldn't do a poo on my boot (again) or shift through a prisoners poo to see what they were concealing up their back sides (again) or count out how many times a prisoner bangs their head against the window (again and 12s the record for me) because they're self harming
But I'll certainly take on board the idea that prisoners should be allowed to vote
It just seems like societal petulance at best, and intentional alienation, humiliation, and dehumanisation at worst.
That sums it up pretty nicely. But those are attractive qualities to right-wing voters, so I expect we'll see a lot more "soft on crims" propaganda from National over this.
Peter Fonda has died (aged 79).
Steppenwolf – Born To Be Wild (Music Video from Easy Rider)
Tankie sides with totalitarianism, compares pro-democracy demonstrations to armed insurgency.
https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1160919024869486595
bernie calls out the media..
and of course what he says applies here too..
https://www.salon.com/2019/08/16/memo-to-mainstream-journalists-can-the-phony-outrage-bernie-is-right-about-bias/
i have never watched game of thrones..(viewing it as the 'friends' of costume drama..and that is not a compliment…'friends' with gratuitous violence – no thanks..)
this reviewer hadn't watched it either – then binge-watched all of it..
i am still not convinced – but it's a well written review..
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/arts/television/binge-watch-game-of-thrones.html
Read the books, for me 1st was a great read, then the level enjoyment diminished by each book for me, still waiting in anticipation for the last 2.
I have learnt from Fire and Ice, when reading a series of novels; wait until they are all completed and then binge read the series. Imagine if the Harry Potter series had this issue with 5+ years between books. Just as well we had the TV series at least there is one ending and resolution for us.
have you read the gormenghast trilogy – by mervyn peake..?
i consider him the master of the genre…
Not yet but will take your commendation and have a look in the library.
Not sure if it is in your taste but did enjoy the movie Highrise, on a boys night out and the cover of S.O.S
chrs..
Here's one for Robert. This blew me away it's seriously cool bananas mate!
https://www.boredpanda.com/7-trolls-forest-hidden-sculpture-thomas-dambo/?
Wow: Trolls of worth!
I'm planning something along those lines, using giant mushrooms instead of trolls. I've made some (not giant) as practice and like the results.
A worthwhile look back at the views and methods of the guy who led the US to the last significant reversal of a period of unfettered greedy oligarchy.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/16/democrats-socialism-fdr-roosevelt-227622
Because it's all about cruelty.
https://twitter.com/SenDuckworth/status/1162135028056371201
Edit
Large, amoral, bullying UK men (and women to ensure gender balance) might be a significant percentage of their population. We had in NZ the abusive family with a Russian-doll effect, grandies, parents and young ones all apparently in the same mould, and glad to get rid of them back to their home country where they weren't welcomed any more than here.
Now another example of the nouveau 'bitch' insisting on his road ownership to a bus driver, who suggests he shift his car back 10 ft allowing the bus to go through. The reply is 'Never give way mate. That's why I drive a Forty grand car and you don't' and he suggests the bus driver get another job. It leaves me wondering why we went over in the 1940s to assist such an unlovely lot from low like this to high Tory.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7365787/Big-Oaf-motorist-claims-human-rights-infringed-footage-road-rage-rant-went-viral.html
Or this: Does the Daily Mail dream these up? You wouldn’t read about it – but still you do and it is amazing.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7365027/Father-miracle-IVF-twins-drowned-mother-slams-10-year-sentence-mental-unit.html
Deeply respected UN leader killed in a plane crash in Africa, very sad, now is the subject of a doco that has revealed allegationsis so weird it could be true.
White mercenaries plotted to spread HIV through Africa through fake vaccination program, claims documentary In 'Cold Case: Hammarskjold,'
By Bridie Pearson-jones For Mailonline and Afp
Published: 12:10 AEST, 15 August 2019 | Updated: 02:26 AEST, 17 August 2019
White mercenaries planned to spread HIV to black South Africans via a phony vaccination program, according to a former member of a secret parliamentary group in a new documentary.
Danish documentary-maker Mads Brugger set out to investigate the mysterious 1961 plane crash that killed the head of the UN in modern-day Zambia for his latest film, but says he ended up uncovering something vastly more sinister.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7358707/Film-claims-group-plotted-infect-black-Africans-HIV.html
"First, 63 percent of the total increase in global natural gas production in the 21st century has come from shale gas. And second, shale gas production using modern hydrofracturing techniques tends to produce lighter methane than conventional natural gas drilling.
Howarth finds that if the lighter methane of shale gas production is explicitly accounted for, “shale-gas production in North America over the past decade may have contributed more than half of all of the increased [methane] emissions from fossil fuels globally and approximately one-third of the total increased emissions from all sources globally over the past decade.”
Since 89 percent of the shale gas production comes from the US (Canada produced the rest), that’s a whole lot of accelerated global warming tracing right back to America’s front door."
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/8/15/20805136/climate-change-fracking-methane-emissions
We're infinitely divided unlike the founders . They understood it was all one thing — demo-cracy. Lets form a fist. Particularly when the Reserve Bank and Business NZ are coming at a Labour Govt from the left!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kia Ora The Am Show.
I have decided to stay out of the Auckland Mayor debate .
Well there you go he wants to be a dictator in Green Land.
People are already hired on culture preferences it called instertution discrimination so hiring a tangata whenua in one of the top jobs in this new organisation that is designed to lower Maori reoffending is just countering that phenomenon Ka pai Kelvin .
That's cool A Tonga Movie documentary made by A Tonga Wahine My Father s Kingdom being released today Via Mana Wahine .
I agree Aotearoa is a safe heaven so is Australia compared to the rest of the world. But our Tangata think that the rest of the Papatuanuku is the same they travel over seas and don't realise that phenomenon
Unless they are on package holiday tours they can quite easily end up in the kaka in a bad neighbourhood being robbed and stuffed up I see this happening all the time.
Astronomy is A amazing science we come from the Stars the more we learn about the matariki the more we will know about our Papatuanuku cool I am amazed with science.
Jessica Eco Maori thanks you a the organisation that is Championing to Protect our Taonga Mauri and Hector dolphin there are other in a similar situation The Vaquita lives off the coast of New Mexico they are in a state close to EXTINCTION TO. Ka kite Ano
Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute
https://youtu.be/Xo7WjnC8ekQ
Kia Ora Newshub .
Its great that the prison system is going to try and lower the tangata whenua reoffending and ending up back in jail +have more consideration for Maori Culture .
That is good the Maori King meeting Our Prime ministers to try and work out a sensible solution to Ihumatao.
The tech industry is there for Aotearoa to boost our export earnings a big investment will reap huge returns in the future just about everything will have a tech element to it.
I say it's great banning that weight loss app from Aotearoa .
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News
I agree that our tamariki going into state care and juvenile court and jail has to be stop what a waste of there precious lives .
Hone if the shoe was on the other foot you don't put down our Maori MPs this Coalition Government has delivered more for tangata whenua than any in the last 30 years just grand standing for votes .Why didn't you protest about the mess national made of Maori lives while they were in Parliament . A
Kia Ora to all the tangata whenua at Turangawaewae marae paying respect to all their whanau who have moved on I believe they are all watching us so I try to do them proud of my every ACTION as I don't want to disappoint my Mama .
The Turangawaewae marae hakari is making me hungry it looks reka .
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora The Am Show
Its time we taught society to respect Wahine and each other when you have a well known reporter making comments like that against Wahine who is a Papatuanuku leader that is not acceptable . I say it again Te neanderthal needs to retire his chovernistic climate denyers views and let someone from the next generation who cares have about the future have the Mike change is coming fast.
I agree that our government should back the online games tech industry I'm sure they have plans to increase investment to help develop and boost the industry .
Yes paula was just grand standing on the issue of the Labour Party employment bullying and other alagati her secret complaints have not come out of the dark.
Ka pai to our Coalition government and the fishing industry for working together to find a solution to the demise and extinction of Aotearoa taonga the Mauri Dolphin .
Its awesome that Tangata Whenua O Aotearoa has a big influence in Our fishing industry as I say if not the capitalist would not change their attitude to conserve our taonga the native wild life.
I think it great that the alcohol pushers are slowly decreaseing alcohol is a substance that should be taken with caution have adverts that show the damage it does to our society on TV .
Ka kite Ano
Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute
https://youtu.be/PWoDSGfSu6o
Kia pai the tangata of Papatuanuku needs to let everyone know that it is not acceptable to disregard our future generations environment all in the name of $$$$$$$$$$$
UK privately appeals to senior Australian ministers for climate action
Exclusive: British high commissioner Vicki Treadell has met with Angus Taylor and Marise Payne
The British government has privately appealed to senior Coalition ministers – including Angus Taylor and Marise Payne– to develop a more “ambitious” climate policy, amid growing concern Australia is not doing enough to cut emissions.
As the government fends off criticism from Pacific island nations about its climate policies, Guardian Australia can reveal that the UK’s high commissioner to Australia, Vicki Treadell, has met with both ministers since the May election, using the introductory meetings to convey Britain’s view that it wants all countries, including Australia, to increase their climate ambitions.
The UK has prioritised climate action, and last month became the first G7 country to legislate a target of net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. Since 1990, the UK has reduced emissions by more than 40%, while the economy has grown by around 70%.
“The UK government believes we have a moral duty to leave this world in better condition than that which we inherited, which is why we have set ourselves a target of net zero emissions by 2050
Ka kite Ano link below
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/aug/19/uk-privately-appeals-to-senior-australian-ministers-for-climate-action
Kia Ora Newshub.
That will be a great move getting the fuel company's into line to stop fleacing us national set it up so that the company's could make huge profits.
I don't think its correct for the alcohol industry should be pushing to lower our alcohol consumption laws in town bars and clubs that stupid stuff on the streets is just a minor part of the carnage that alcohol causes .
Ka kite Ano.
Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News
Tawhirimate is going Mana at the minute and my reception is bad .
Ka kite Ano
Kia Ora The Am Show .
White collar fraud is a big problem in our society WHY are they getting away with it ?? ?. Some in Aotearoa must have had a dose of reality the tax take went up recently ??? ?
White nurse ????? brain fart.
Sandy there are more people lost walking across a road than Shark mistaken people for pray deaths the way to minimise Shark accidents attacks is to warn people not to swim at dawn and dusk as that is the times that Sharks hunt the most.
That's cool going to Nasa to design a controller for a robot .
I just got a great deal from Spark on my new Huawei phone I got free Rugby World Cup viewing in the deal + other thinks to my phone is great .
I agree banning smoking in cars is needed just passing the law will make a lot of difference in that problem .
I say it a stain on South Africa uppping the amount of Black Rinos to be trophy hunted from 4 to 9 with only 5000 left in the wild they should be under TOTAL PROTECTION Rinos are awesome creatures that need to be preserved for EVER.
It would be a stressful time being in a situation where a wahine has to give up their tamariki for adoption in the 1970s. (Relatives Strangers) Pip Murdocks Book on her adoption experience in the 1970s .
Rotorua recycling has improved heaps there are big wheelly bins at each house for recycling every fortnight and a smaller one for rubbish that gets empty weekly . I see the problems Napier has with the recycling service they have small inadequate bins on windy days the recycling get blown all over the place .
Ka kite Ano