Open Mike 19/11/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 19th, 2017 - 56 comments
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56 comments on “Open Mike 19/11/2017 ”

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    • ianmac 1.1
      19 November 2017 at 8:09 am

      And artificial milk will be a huge worry for those dairy farmers who have invested vast amounts of money to make money while destroying water. Where to from there?

      • Ms Fargo 1.1.1
        19 November 2017 at 8:35 am

        They’ll walk away like all polluters, toxic industrial sites etc do and let the taxpayer live with the consequences and try and clean up after them.

    • Adrian 1.2
      19 November 2017 at 11:16 am

      What a load of bullshit, the crop is down because of a big frost in Europe, it happens so every year to a greater or lesser extent, the last nasty was 1987 and in the 60s a couple of times and 1945 was every bit as bad, and don’t start me on the ” Little Minimum” of the late 1700s when France didn’t produce a usable crop for 12 years.
      I could go back another 700 years or so but records get a bit patchy.
      Enjoy your manufactured factory built wine which will require most ingredients to be genetically modified to be cost effective.
      Some people will swallow any old shit.

    • greywarshark 1.3
      19 November 2017 at 4:50 pm

      What about the other half?

    • Molly 2.1
      19 November 2017 at 8:26 am

      This is my neck of the woods, so to speak, and I was involved with community submissions all the way through the Unitary Process and know a few of the long term growers. It won’t be surprising that the land owners – as opposed to the leasees – have looked on the housing price rise as a capital gains windfall.

      Retirement age landowners have processed Private Plan Changes that give them a large capital injection by selling off their productive land. The previous local board – not sure about the current – was very supportive of business and subdivisions, as they considered it brought more people (and money) to the region.

      Bill Cashmore, in another article said these are legacy projects from Franklin District Council, but that is not true. One local PPC took 50 acres of Class I soil, and Paerata Rise makes use of the SHA legislation to convert 300 ha. I’m sure there are more cases, these are just down the road so I am aware of them.

      There is a degree of lip service paid, but it seems the bigger the development the more likely it is to go ahead. Pressure is brought to bear on the smaller subdivisions of people trying to divide their own properties, although eventually those tend to go through.

      I would think that allowing sustainable subdivision of lifestyle properties around community hubs – where they are often located – would be a better approach to increasing housing, rather than taking Class I soils out of food production. But my cynicism of the Unitary Plan process and outcomes is likely colouring my view. Not rosily either.

      (Good article about the uplift value of land when it is earmarked for housing and not for production on the Guardian today)

    • savenz 2.2
      19 November 2017 at 8:59 am

      Yes they should. Rampant zone changes are not improving Aucklander’s lives at all. Quite the opposite. Also it’s corporate welfare to big developers making as much profit as possible and loads of charges to someone trying to build their family home. It’s a double standard.

      It seems an Absurdism that the government and councils are obsessed with more development when they don’t even have proper public transport or can keep their beaches from being contaminated. Now they are taking Aucklander’s food sources to build more houses for profit that are not only so far away but locals can’t even afford them. Lucky under TPPA foreigners can still speculate on New build houses so that’s ok then. We don’t want the global elite to mis out on a business opportunity while the poor starve. sarc.

  3. savenz 3
    19 November 2017 at 8:21 am

    Pretty sad some of NZ’s iconic beaches like Kare Kare and Piha are not safe to swim. It’s been like this for years now. When are the council going to do something about it, if they spent less time revenue gathering as their prime motivation for everything, they might actually get somewhere.

    16 Auckland beaches closed due to water contamination
    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/some-auckland-beaches-closed-because-water-is-too-dirty/

    • Draco T Bastard 3.1
      19 November 2017 at 10:15 am

      You do understand that, under our present system, the council needs revenue to be able to afford to do anything at all don’t you?
      And that the scaremongering over the last few decades about rising rates by the RWNJs have limited the ability of councils to raise rates to do what’s needed?

      • savenz 3.1.1
        19 November 2017 at 2:47 pm

        Plenty of Auckland rates money for Westfield developers and feasibility studies for billion dollar stadiums Draco. Plus the 1 billion on wasted IT that nobody cares about. We could have got trains for that!

        • Sacha 3.1.1.1
          19 November 2017 at 5:35 pm

          The IT thing is a fake story pushed by the Act party’s Auckland wing via useful idiots like Orsman in the Herald. No evidence whatsoever.

          • savenz 3.1.1.1.1
            19 November 2017 at 10:17 pm

            ??????? – it’s in the council accounts how much they are spending! The council IT is a train wreck. Zero accountability.

            • savenz 3.1.1.1.1.1
              19 November 2017 at 10:34 pm

              It was the supercity integration that never worked, that blew the money advocated by ACT!

            • Sacha 3.1.1.1.1.2
              20 November 2017 at 9:25 am

              The budget for running regular IT systems is not the same as wasting money on new development – which is a legitimate problem area with a much smaller cost blowout. The responsible manager was shown the door (though several years too slow).

      • Cricklewood 3.1.2
        19 November 2017 at 8:26 pm

        Would you be happy to pay more when… there are massive salaries… vast contracts given to multinationals in the name of ‘cost saving’ when in reality it hammers workers forces down wages and conditions and indeed kills some of them. (That rubbish truck death in the news this weekend springs to mind) Fuck em they aint having another cent from me unless there are massive changes in the pipeline.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.1.2.1
          19 November 2017 at 9:07 pm

          Do I think that people at the top of the council are paid too much? Yes I do.
          Do I think that the people ate the bottom are paid too little? Yes I do.

          Do you have any fucken idea as to what would happen if we changed so that the people at the top got less while the people at the bottom got more?

          HINT: Everybody would be whinging about rates going up.

    • Ad 3.2
      19 November 2017 at 11:22 am

      Sewerage and stormwater reform at those beaches has been consistently opposed by privileged locals. Many of whom are strong left activists.

        • Anne 3.2.1.1
          19 November 2017 at 6:23 pm

          Yes. My reaction too DTB. Lefties care about the environment so to suggest some are opposed to environmental remedies is suspect indeed.

      • savenz 3.2.2
        19 November 2017 at 2:43 pm

        The water is supposed to be improved by a COO – Metrowater. Now Aucklanders have monthly bills increasing rents and cost of living, and glossy pamphlets with the water rates but not much action on pollution. Not sure if Kare Kare is on the grid but Coxes bay is in central Auckland, no excuse there for pollution. Apparently after a deluge of rain and we have poos in the sea, still.

        Funny though some so called lefties seem to love less democracy and less community involvement if it suits them. No idea why the left are losing ground in Auckland (sarc) when they consider most people NIMBYS and support rampant development by private providers – the net result to all the zoning is affordable houses being bowled and McMansions being put up at 2 mill + and apartments with expensive Body corporates that less and less (0n NZ wages) can afford. Progress.

        • The Fairy Godmother 3.2.2.1
          19 November 2017 at 3:09 pm

          Central Auckland has an aging wastewater system where waste water goes down the same pipes as sewerage so when ever it rains there is pollution as the sewerage system can’t handle it. Its got worse because of all the development and no one thought to ask the developers to pay for the infrastructure required. The rwnj controlled Auckland City Council was all into saving money so never did anything about it. Now the Super city is constrained by promises to keep rates down and will also do nothing about it. It is up to the population to get out on the streets and demand to be able to pay more rates. Unfortunately that is just not going to happen.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.2.1.1
            19 November 2017 at 8:02 pm

            It is up to the population to get out on the streets and demand to be able to pay more rates. Unfortunately that is just not going to happen.

            QFT

            Decades of having the RWNJs whinging about paying rates/taxes and telling everyone that it should be cheaper. So we get rates cut and the cut in services to go with them.

            Unfortunately, no one seems to be able to connect the dots there.

      • savenz 3.2.3
        19 November 2017 at 2:51 pm

        @AD I would say that the locals lack of support on the septic issues is because septic tanks used to cost $1000 now they cost $13,000 plus. You used to pump them out every 5 years, now you have to pay a private provider $300 to check your septic tank system every 6 months. You have to wonder about progress!

        Then people wonder why rents are so out of control and why houses are so expensive compared to other countries. It could be rampant profiteering supported by government’s ideology in this country. If you have a new septic tank why the heck does it need checking every 6 months????

        • joe90 3.2.3.1
          19 November 2017 at 3:09 pm

          why the heck does it need checking every 6 months????

          To remove solids.

          btw, twenty five years ago the waste water system I installed coast a damn sight more than a grand. From memory, the concrete products, tank, risers, drainage field and vault slabs alone cost $4 – 5k. Machine hire, labour, pipe and fittings about the same.

          • savenz 3.2.3.1.1
            19 November 2017 at 10:31 pm

            wrong again. It’s because all the electronics are so ridiculous that they break down so often that you have to check them. Unless you have a family of 30 you would be hard pressed to fill a septic tank with shit up in 6 months.

            Things like $13,000 septic tanks not having surge protectors so that when subjected to the dirty power from Vector not bothering to upgrade the lines etc they blow up is the reason they need checking so often plus money for jam obviously for the firms that make the money off that. It costs $2 for a RCD – apparently now they have worked that one out. But anyone who bought one of the fancy new eco ones would not go back after the hassles the new ones have breaking down.

            By the way $13000 does not include installation, drainage etc, add on double for that. Then you can get an inkling why there is no action on affordable housing. If you fixed costs are so high, it is not economic to build small or cheaply.

        • Draco T Bastard 3.2.3.2
          19 November 2017 at 8:18 pm

          You used to pump them out every 5 years,

          Which probably explains why they over-flow and pollute Piha.

          The problem is that NZers tend to be too cheap for their own good and then whinge when the council needs to put up rates to pay for them being cheap.

      • Molly 3.2.4
        19 November 2017 at 8:41 pm

        Really? It was lefties that got a SHA approval for Clarks Beach – you know affordable housing – and then took the capital gains without building anything and selling the lots?

  4. eco maori 4
    19 November 2017 at 11:20 am

    Well I don’t trust many people just my immediate family my wife sons and daughters and one son in law no one else get my trust unless I have test them with minor issues to show me I can trust them.
    I was pretty much only educated till I was 9 the rest of the time I spent at school was eating lunch.
    But my wife is highly educated in computers she has studied Alot and I have learned a lot from here but she has some issues sensitive ones that ACC should have payed her out 3000.00 but I no that that dick from Gisborne decide he was going to be judge and jury and interfered in my wife case hence the 20 a week she gets from ACC I want to sue them but she doesn’t want to go through all the bullshit again reliving bad past memories so I don’t push it on her to sue ACC. I take her advice very seriously and my eldest daughters as well because I no that they will have our best outcomes for our future at heart and no other conflict of interest to sway there thoughts of wisdom.
    But everyone in my circle doesn’t no about the fight I have with the NZ justice system or the Mana that eco Maori has so my star sign is a Ram a leader but a loaner as I’m fighting these pricks buy myself and I’m going to win PS I Still say OUR Kiwi league team have the skills to win they just needed to all have the will to win. Enough said.
    Kia Kaha

    • eco maori 4.1
      19 November 2017 at 12:01 pm

      PS I don’t believe in star signs well just the caretristics of the Animals I would prefer to use a Octopus really intelligent and resort full and my connection to the sea I have got a cousin working at waitangi restorationing some of the carving there he is going to draw my ta moko on my back I say when I have earned the Mana my brother says I already have but I don’t think so so me and my cousin are going to my Marae to do this I think we will have a hangover or two when this happens I want a Octopus riding a whale on my back he is a great artist so it will be good Ka pai

  5. Philip Ferguson 5
    19 November 2017 at 11:32 am

    Today is the 7th anniversary of the first explosion at Pike River.

    https://rdln.wordpress.com/2016/11/14/pike-river-tragedy-without-end/

  6. Draco T Bastard 6
    19 November 2017 at 12:42 pm

    Looks like the ICC may be taking the US to court for war crimes:

    What happens when a global criminal court takes on the world’s dominant military power? That was the question earlier this month when the International Criminal Court’s Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda took a decisive step toward direct confrontation with the U.S government.

    The Prosecutor’s brief announcement that she would seek permission to launch a formal investigation into the situation in Afghanistan followed a series of annual reports making clear that this investigation will cover not just the Taliban and Afghan security forces, but also U.S. military and intelligence officers. This is a scenario that both ICC critics and supporters in the U.S. government have fretted about ever since the formation of the court. Yet the official Department of Defense reaction was distinctly muted. Pentagon spokesperson Eric Pahon’s statement to National Public Radio that an ICC investigation with respect to U.S. personnel would be “wholly unwarranted and unjustified” drew in tone and content from U.S. government talking points that have been used for years. Will the government shift to a more aggressive response once senior leadership turns its attention away from the President’s trip to Asia and has a chance to weigh in?

  7. adam 7
    19 November 2017 at 1:08 pm

    Stinking Foreign Agent desperately trying to defend itself from the corporations.

    • Bill 7.1
      19 November 2017 at 2:45 pm

      And bang on cue, “The Guardian” sallies forth with MPs defend fees of up to £1,000 an hour to appear on ‘Kremlin propaganda’ channel

      And , of course, a mugshot of Nigel Farage is used to highlight the piece. 🙄

      The closing para’s are kind of funny. Or maybe a tad scary.

      The European Values thinktank, which has received money from the UK and US governments, as well as the European commission, recently published a report that listed more than 2,000 US and European politicians who have appeared on RT.

      Monika Richter, the report’s author, said RT’s purpose was “to fundamentally pollute the information space”.

      “People who don’t understand this issue very well might think it’s harmless to appear on a satirical show [Sam Delaney’s News Thing?] , but it’s a failure of judgment and a lack of imagination in understanding how insidious the whole machine is,” she said.

      edit – have I previously mentioned that Alex Salmond (ex- First Minister of Scotland) is going to be fronting his own show on RT? (The peeps at “The Guardian” are Not Impressed 🙂

      • adam 7.1.1
        19 November 2017 at 4:10 pm

        I wonder if it’s to scear off intellectuals and leftist from talking out. Or anyone to question liberalism as the end of history – is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing about the truth.

        Take this for instance, Stuart Ewen peels back the manipulation of our emotions.

  9. gsays 9
    19 November 2017 at 2:15 pm

    I am a parent helping a child going through ncea for the first time.
    Maths and sine, cosine and tangent.
    This is before we get to parabola, pi and other headache inducing stuff (and I am the mathematician in the family).
    I am an engaged parent, dutifully attending every parent teacher evening and am surprised at the holes in the learning.
    I am not blaming teachers at all, just realising that a tutor may have been wise and on the eve of the exam is a bit late.

    • savenz 9.1
      19 November 2017 at 2:45 pm

      You got it gsays! You are not alone! Hopefully the new government does something about the absolute devastation on our education system at primary and secondary levels. (They apparently plan too, so hopefully good news).

      • gsays 9.1.1
        19 November 2017 at 9:38 pm

        The fundamentals seem to be lacking. What is known as basic facts, or as when I went through, the times table.
        I see now, what great benefits knowing instinctively what up to 12 times 12 is.
        Patterns emerge, confidence grows, numbers can be held in mind while other sums are done…

        Politics wise, my son has been in school for 10 years, so if things arent up to scratch, we can blame the tories. ;-).

    • AB 9.2
      19 November 2017 at 2:45 pm

      Ditto – though Year 9, not NCEA yet. I think we need a club where we can confess our stuff-ups and outbursts of irritation? Not asking for forgiveness, just understanding.

      • greywarshark 9.2.1
        19 November 2017 at 4:33 pm

        They set up small booths in some Catholic churches for that, I understand.

        Or in line with some Asian countries, we could have a day where one goes to a public square where a little metal tree with spiky branches stands, and on each spike each parent sticks a little piece of coloured paper with all their faulty thoughts and actions on it. At a certain time it is set on fire and all the miserable efforts and unfortunate blues turn to ash and float away, gone. Purified, and ready to start on another year’s struggle.

    • Andre 9.3
      19 November 2017 at 4:15 pm

      Being an engineer, I can help mine with math and science, although for the life of me I can’t figure out why anyone thinks things like properties of geometric shapes is something the general population needs to know.

      It’s english that’s the problem for me. All I can say is write lots of stuff that sounds like it’s on the topic and hope like hell the marker likes your flavour of waffle.

      • gsays 9.3.1
        19 November 2017 at 10:13 pm

        I think the waffling part of it applies to most subjects.
        If I have said it once today I said it a dozen times, show your working out.
        Written ebullience isn’t often a strength of young males.

    • The Fairy Godmother 9.4
      19 November 2017 at 7:41 pm

      Sometimes the problem is a child who is afraid to ask questions and/or a teacher who makes it hard to ask. This was the problem with my eldest and I did engage a tutor as year 13 maths was beyond me. Then the second one came along and aced maths so I never had to help the third one

      • gsays 9.4.1
        19 November 2017 at 10:17 pm

        Funny you should say that tfg, his teacher is a big , assertive senior master, who is difficult to approach, and that is me as an adult saying that.
        Child, a tad immature and shy to ask, (not afraid of being cheeky, unfortunately).

  10. joe90 10
    19 November 2017 at 2:49 pm

    Funny/sad.

    • greywarshark 10.1
      19 November 2017 at 4:31 pm

      Thanks Joe90 even a child of five could understand that. Me I’m much older but am trying to keep up with the young.

  11. greywarshark 11
    19 November 2017 at 5:45 pm

    I hadn’t looked at the post The Yellow Peril and now I have I am shocked that it has fallen so low beneath TS standards, which have been mixed up while this long and wearisome trail of insults and explanations has unravelled.

    It was started by Mike Smith 1030 pm on Nov 15 and at this time on the 19th has 325 comments listed. Most appear to have added little information but have given a lead on the sort of crap that occurs when you let people take sallies at each other and needle each other. Take up fencing and go and play outside children.

    One sure indication is when slang terms and sexual jibes get used. It seems that the whole thing should have come to a halt mid afternoon on the 17th. There appears to have been some weak-kneed desire to allow free expression or something but when the crudities continue, and the desire to retaliate pervades then any useful point is lost. Can The Yellow Peril be closed for comments now. It would be good if it could be put to bed.

    RedLogix talked about people ganging up, I thought that was a good point. I have seen that when it has been other contentious issues.
    As I indicated in the back-end, I’ve raised this issue of ‘piling on’, or ‘mobbing’ a commenter a number of times in the past and received no support at all. So in this respect I fully welcome this new moderating guideline.
    https://thestandard.org.nz/the-yellow-peril/#comment-1416017

    I don’t see why that can’t be applied earlier to stop the build up of mud throwing and harrassment of each other. Say for some hours.

    • Graeme 11.1
      19 November 2017 at 11:04 pm

      Yeah, that post isn’t exactly The Standard’s finest moment.

      I’m surprised that it went as long as it did, and wasn’t heavily moderated from mid morning on 16th. It was definitely in the gutter by lunchtime that day.

      Maybe for a topic that had the potential to be as polarising, and contentious as that one, full moderation from the start, even with a a light and discrete hand, could have facilitated a meaningful and enlightening discussion on a topic that is going to have a huge bearing on our future. Once the insults started all hope of that was lost.

  12. mosa 12
    19 November 2017 at 6:26 pm

    I see Q+A are still using their old anti left ambush tactics even when the Left is now in authority and governing the country.

    Phil Twyford had to respond to the story run last week about growers in Pukekohe alarmed at the loss of prime land used for growing our food that is being swallowed up with Aucklands ravenous need for more space to accommodate its huge population.

    Their alarm is warranted as their income and these precious soils are being buried under more and more housing developments which will have a direct impact on produce supplied nationwide.

    The thing is the last National government never intervened or pressured the council to reconsider these developments on this most precious agricultural land and these new subdivisions have been growing at an alarming rate.

    Where were these growers over the last nine years all of which i bet were voting for the National party.

    To Phil Twyford’s credit he said he will meet with the growers about their concerns and rightly so but where was this concern over the last nine years and where was the pressure to front up to this for the previous housing minister.

    I never remember Q+A ever putting the last National government under the scrutiny they now expect of Mr Twyford it would have been seen as a ambush and would never have been countenanced by TVNZ or the right.

    While their is a anti left bias we will never have the balance we should expect in covering these serious issues and informing the public without the usual anti left propaganda.

    It is time Clare Curran and this government reviews TVNZ and its role in our media landscape.

    • Molly 12.1
      19 November 2017 at 8:50 pm

      “Where were these growers over the last nine years all of which i bet were voting for the National party.”

      If you noticed, the growers complaining are leasees. The landholders as you say, are mostly National and are delighted to take the capital uplift value when their lands are rezoned. I can say that because I personally saw a few local owners of market land advocating for rezoning during Unitary Plan submissions.

      The Unitary Plan possessed no teeth, in terms of creating new housing models, addressing climate change and ensuring some kind of return to community for uplifted values.

    • joe90 12.2
      19 November 2017 at 9:36 pm

      anti left ambush tactics

      @14.00, they’re cowered

      https://crooked.com/podcast/what-is-the-medias-bias/

  13. McFlock 13
    19 November 2017 at 6:42 pm

    More on Harvey Weinstein.

    My immediate take-home was that it illustrates just what people risk making complaints against the powerful, the resources that they’re up against.

    Then I considered that his list of 91 names was people whom he could remember doing something to that he thought might be perceived as seriously wrong. So people whose names he knew, and incidents he remembered/put in a diary.

    Then there’s the entire idiocy of singling out people for specific attention – I’m sure the media that got those names would be looking for people who haven’t yet come forward but had marks by their names.

    And then there’s the timeframe – he was in damage control for months before the allegations came out (probably heard about a media investigation).

    [edit – took out a comment about being on graham norton – must have been a rerun a few months ago, originally aired in 2015]

  14. In Vino 14
    19 November 2017 at 7:24 pm

    My God. The latest Fonterra ads (wiv Wichie or wivout) are even more nauseous than their previous ones, which were pretty bad.

    A sad commentary when the general public drink in such obvious excrement.

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