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Blazer (Friday): What qualities do you admire in a leader Gezza?
I asked for a few hours to think about that one before replying. I’ve had that time now (n between some rellies joining me for a few days in a working bee i n & around Pookden Manor) & I’ve decided to frame my response around the qualities I think a good PM should have – as that was the context of our discussion .
Others please feel free to critique my list, or add or replace anything they think is missing, or they have a better “quality” for.
………………………..
A Good PM
Intelligent. Able to understand complex issues & identify constructive solutions to problems, both individually & when working collectively with Cabinet, caucus, departmental advisers & industry experts.
Good communicator. Always clear. Circumspect when the situation requires it (eg for reasons of national security, diplomacy, or policy not finalised yet) but not vague or waffly.
Good people skills. Relates easily & well to people of all backrounds. Knows how to spot talent (intelligence, people skills, capacity for learning and hard work) among caucus members. Matches colleagues’ abilities to portfolios well.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals for Government, so that Ministers know what their departments – and THEY – are expected to achieve, & by when.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals for New Zealand as a society & as an independent country with its own unique national goals, priorities, & interdependencies, & international relationships.
Good People Manager. Recognises & rewards good performance by MPs by promoting them; rewards persistent bad performance or clear lack of ability by demoting MPs or not appointing them to important portfolios.
Consultative, but also decisive when Cabinet or Caucus reach an impasse & a decision MUST be taken – even if that decision subsequently turns out to be a wrong one.
Tolerant of Cabinet Ministers’ & backbench MP’s mistakes – within sensible (common sense) limits! Nobody’s perfect. Recognises this when things go wrong for Party MPs within the Parliamentary working environment, but ensures that lessons are learned.
Strong. Does not shy from sacking Ministers or taking other disciplinary measures when these are clearly required because of MP foolishness or grossly inappropriate / unlawful behaviour.
Hi Gezza, I'm not sure of the context you were asked to define Leadership but having read your list i am wondering, in our lifetime, do you think any other PM has had more of those qualities than our current one? I know others will disagree but it seems to me that Ardern fits most, if not all, of those qualities.
I came up with this list based on what qualities, from my observations over my lifetime, a good chairperson of a board, AND a good CEO (private or government) has. Because, imo, a good PM essentially combines those two roles.
Sometimes a good COTB & a good CEO has the intelligence to appoint others who have some qualities they lack to fill the gaps as their trusted advisers. Helen Clark did this with H2, for example.
I didn’t try & write it around a particular PM, but from what I remember, Norman Kirk comes close meeting most of those. Jacinda Ardern, I’m not quite so sure. Judith Collins however doesn’t get within a bull’s roar of meeting most of those requirements, in my view.
Gezza: you've expressed your disenchantment with Jacinda Ardern before, and here, it seems, you've set up a format for criticising NZ Prime Ministers; is your hope that commenters here will similarly share their anxieties about Jacinda?
I was pleased to read the response from Red Blooded One.
“Gezza: you’ve expressed your disenchantment with Jacinda Ardern before, and here, it seems, you’ve set up a format for criticising NZ Prime Ministers;”
G: No I haven’t. I’ve set out the qualities I personally think a good PM has. Jacinda Ardern has some of those qualities. Or, at least, sometimes she displays them. Helen Clark has many of those qualities. John Key had some, but not others & I learned not to trust Key.
I believe I’m a more dispassionate observer than you are when it comes to such issues, as I’m not politically tribal, Robert, like you are.
Reminds me: One obvious quality I completely missed out & I’m now adding adding. Honesty.
“is your hope that commenters here will similarly share their anxieties about Jacinda?”
G: No. You should know me well enuf by now. If that is what I meant, that is what I would have said. When I post, I say what I mean, & I mean what I say. I’m always happy to clarify if questioned, so thank you for at least asking that question. Don’t try and read my mind, Robert. You are no better a mind-reader than I am. And I can’t read minds.
“I was pleased to read the response from Red Blooded One.”
Your original post was clear, and thought provoking. FWIW:
Intelligent: Undoubtedly
Good communicator: This has been her strength; in recent months there is a risk it is becoming her weakness. An example: the proposed hate speech legislation.
Good people skills: Yes to your first point. Not so much to your second.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals (etc): No. I sense at times there is no overriding vision beyond slogans, but to be fair that could be because of the nature of our political system (e.g. in the first term she was in a coalition with a party that she is not ideologically comfortable with).
Good people manager: Jury's out. In fact this one is hard to gauge unless you are close to the workings of her caucus.
Consultative but also decisive: Again that's difficult without being an insider.
Tolerant of Cabinet Ministers’ & backbench MP’s mistakes/Strong: I've combined these. At times she's been too tolerant. Phil Twyford, David Clark and Clare Curran both got too much latitude, and right now Poto Williams and Kris Faafoi are being given latitude I'm not sure they deserve. But I'll say this – the PM may be hamstrung if she senses a lack of depth in her caucus. In other words a perceived weakness in this category may in fact reflect strengths in others as she seeks to balance the work needing doing with the talent available.
"The best way to handle people given latitude is to give them none of course."
I assume that's sarcasm. I run an international business, and I give my team a lot of latitude, but in return my expectations are clear, as are the consequences of non performance.
"What were the excesses of latitudes Ardern gave David Clark and Clare Curran?"
It took too long for her to sack them, in a nutshell. And she prevaricated. On the On 7/9/18 she said Curran's job was 'not on the line', yet accepted her resignation just hours later.
They were going off on tangents and not team players add a level of incompetency too.No govt either National or Labour are all of the same competency just like Key and Clark they pushed out liabilities.
To also show that those who didn't stick to the team plan consequences are coming .
I felt sure you were meaning the discussion to focus on Jacinda Ardern, Gezza, but if you mean us to discuss PM's from the past as well, may I ask you about your statement:
"I learned not to trust Key"
You trusted Key initially, then learned not to trust him?
For what reasons did you find him trustworthy, initially?
Sorry Robert. Not really interested in thinking about & then commenting further on Key. Projects to do at Pookden Manor & a perfect, sunny, wind-free mornng for doing them. Getting out there and into them while I’m still able to. Later, dude. 👍🏼
Key had me thinking finally an honest politican till about 4 months out from the 2008 election ,then I remember my bullshit detector starting screeching, I had know real political leaning back then .
No. Deeply pissed off at this incrementalist wet bus ticket neoliberal status quo gutless Blairite pack of weasels who are happy for homeowners/ "investors" to get billions of free $$$$$$$ in unearned capital gains but are like Scrooge when it comes to helping the poor.
Yes. I also liked your list of qualities needed for a good PM Gezza. You will have spent a lot of time putting it together so good on you.
I also agree with RBO that Jacinda Ardern reflects all those qualities. Of course she isn't perfect and she would be the first to agree. For example, I find her a bit waffly sometimes and have been known to tell her as much while watching her on TV. 😡
The largely misogynistic memes that her opponents have tried to pin on her… she's a lightweight who doesn't know what she is doing and, she has no control over her ministers etc., and they have no policies is so much hogwash. Unfortunately there are people whose memory cells are non existent and they fall for the nonsense.
“i am wondering, in our lifetime, do you think any other PM has had more of those qualities than our current one?”….really, are you serious?
Apart from Covid, Ardern has been the most ineffectual and pointless Labour PM in my life time, and that really is saying something..though to be fair she has been great for anyone who profits from banks, landowners, landlords and corporate monopoly owners and their shareholders…turns out she is great at talking, shit at actually doing anything…you only need to observe her (complete lack of) action on climate change to understand this plain fact.
Jacinda Ardern: "my generation's nuclear free moment"….get the fuck out of here!
I listened to a podcast with Murray Bolton recently. Bolton, who is 73, said he had lived through some very good Labour governments (he named the Clark government specifically). His opinion – this is the worst government in his lifetime. Of any political makeup.
Gypsy, I have to confess I said Murray Who? So I looked him up and I am now wondering why I should pay his 'reckons', his opinions, any more weight than, say, my own?
I'm 72 and have seen some ten different governments of various lengths of tenure, and my opinion is different from this 'rich-lister businessman /entrepreneur.'
One of our downslides in critical thinking being shown more clearly recently is our credence in celebrities, as if being famous gives us more intellect or specialised knowledge, when all it does is feed our confirmation bias. I bet, Gypsy, you gave this citation to listen to Murray Who? because he believes what you believe.
I ask, rather, what specialised knowledge or intellect he brings that I should pay attention, and even defer to?
This is on my mind because I have had to run a critique as part of my position in an organisation of a racist, misogynist, extremist ranting letter which had been published with a long CV of the author of the rant. The purpose of the CV was to add weight to this man's opinions, when it did nothing to show any expertise or specialised knowledge.
Funnily enough, this ranter was also a CEO and company founder, like Murray Who? All it did for me was to confirm my incipient confirmation bias about the predilection of famous persons (especially CEOs and business founders) to pontificate about things they have but lay knowledge of. Lucky I'm not famous, eh?
Murray Bolton is a highly successful businessman. He has also taken on the power of the government in court and won, and is now helping other kiwi's stuck in the insane MIQ system get home. And you are?
Doesn't mean he is right, a good guy or has any other admirable traits though.
His reckons are as good as anyone else's and no more.
This uncritical admiration and views that people have something of worth to give the nation because they have got/acquired lots of money is a less than desirable trait.
It seems to be more prevalent (eg the people who admired John Key because he had worked in the money markets) and this is sad as NZ was, in times past, a country that it was said 'Jack's as good as his master.
How does that qualify him to pronounce on what is/was the best or worst government in 60-70 years? To pronounce so certainly that we are directed to a podcast to be enlightened!
Who I am gives me no more right to pronounce upon the worth of 10+ governments more than any other reasonably well informed citizen.
That was my point. Murray Bolton from the evidence you have given, his age and business experience, and ability to pay for and win a court judgement is not an experienced politician, historian or political scientist whose measured judgement upon the relative worth of 60 years of NZ government can be trusted.
I do know that I would be looking at factors such as financial, health and employment statistics, I'd be looking at foreign policy, housing and poverty rates. I'd be researching quality of laws passed, quality of life and average income, environment and social issues, treatment of minority groups, the penal system and the use of state powers.
At least I'd be arguing from a position of some credible knowledge.
I've not heard the podcast. We were not given a reference. Does Mr Bolton traverse any or all of those areas for ten governments?
So it comes down to my other point. Why do we so accept the opinions of the famous, the celebrities, those successful in one aspect of life, be it business, acting or singing and promote them above those whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?
"How does that qualify him to pronounce on what is/was the best or worst government in 60-70 years?"
The same as it qualifies you to disagree.
"Why do we so accept the opinions of the famous, the celebrities, those successful in one aspect of life, be it business, acting or singing and promote them above those whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?"
Who are these people "whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?" The politicians themselves? The opinion of successful people such as Bolton has value because they are the ones doing the hard yards to make NZ successful. They employ people, pay taxes. They lead organisations at the coalface of the very problems politicians create.
"My issue was whether I should be persuaded by the reckons of a businessman, whether anyone should be persuaded by the reckons of such folk."
I don't think you should be. My view is we should take into account a range of opinions from people we respect, even if we don't always agree with them.
Yes I have come across these types of comments where outrageous things, way outside their expertise are said and then the press (often from a press release) states XXXX YYYY was president of the Waikikamoocau Sand Fertiliser Works and owns the local Ford dealership. Because of this somehow they feel their opinions seem to be worth more than Joseph Blow who has a degree in English Tudor History and is being house husband to three children, or Mrs Taitama who runs the Kohanga Reo, or any person in the street. The NZ cringe really.
The press really should be asking sometimes, and your expertise is…….
There was a radio station recently that got some OTT letters and handled them very well on air.
I usually say 'I give nothing to racism, sexism'. etc. This puzzles people sometimes and gives me the chance to explain my view that what they are saying may be racist, sexist etc.
Good luck with the critique. I find looking at the HR Act is good to start with. Pretty simple Act and stark about its impact.
My observation of the past 4 years is that there is too much deference to the Public Service and other advice, and not enough going with what Labour actually believes (think policy platforms etc). It may or may not work, but Little's rejection of the advice and instead opting to lead Cabinet in disestablishing all DHBs was a welcome departure from that in my view.
Add Chris Hipkins to that list. He has stopped the money basis of Education, and managed to keep things intact during 4 rounds of covid.
Kris Fafoi has changed the credit trap significantly, and has slowed the "cheap labour" supply. That has not endeared him to many.
Megan Woods has beavered away at housing, using her people skills to get the opposition onside.
Jacinda Ardern has demoted Ministers who failed their brief or did not live by the morality and honesty expected.
Gezza does not like Ardern and is carefully leaving out qualities we have noted throughout her tenure.
Relationships with other Leaders, recognised by her peers.
Crisis management. Both short and longterm. She has excelled in her managment of the following in the last 4 years.
Fruit fly incursion, Micoplasma Bovis, Kauri dieback, Myrtle Rust, an erruption and the sad outcome, Two terror attacks, Covid 19 and now Delta, plus dealing with the problems of 501s being sent here by Dutton. The other big issues are climate change inequality and being a good Treaty partner, Trade and controlling the huge influence of runaway tech giants and their Algorithms.
The current memes have changed from "It is Winston telling her what to do" to she is "Going to resign and take a better paying overseas position"
Her very few flashes of anger and disparagement born out of the silly comments from the opposition, can be understood. Generally she is patient and answers questions openly, saying she will find out/come back if needing more detail to answer. Her clear full answers where she heads off journalists' loaded questions is a lesson in control. People generally said they were amazed at her tolerance.
This is a Pandemic. It is not over, and we are finding how to live with it while keeping our little boat afloat. A great number of people voted for this Government. Some have wavered in the face of the necessary decisions to keep us safe, and others are threatened by the coming changes, so they may also have doubts. The facts show an amazing balancing act.
Qualities not on the original list.
Honest, openminded, people centered, thoughtful, strength of character able to rise to the occasion able to face problems squarely and plan a way forward able to hold the respect and loyalty of those she is leading.
She clearly loves NZ. I hope she is PM for as long as possible, as given all those extra problems things are bad but by overseas standards more than acceptable with big efforts being made to turn many problems round.
Just my not important opinion. Oh and a disclaimer. I am a Life Labour Party member, and I am proud of the Labour legacy.
Congratulations on the life membership, that's fantastic recognition. I'm also a Labour Party member (VFL) and volunteer (did 5 years as campaign and LEC treasurer) but not at that level!
Hipkins' work on the Education System is an excellent example of a minister pushing past the public service advice, and possible 3 Waters could be the next big example of that. And that was a good reminder that good work has been done and continues, and it can be a long slog on intractable issues. Perhaps my frustration is that some issues have been beyond the political will of the voters rather than cabinet, like redesigning the tax system.
Gezza does not like Ardern and is carefully leaving out qualities we have noted throughout her tenure.
Neither of those assertions is true, Patricia. Another epic fail mind-reader. I do not pretend to know what you think or how you think. Please do not think you can do that with me. You can’t. You are not me. You do not see thru my eyes.
I do not adore Ardern, like some do, & see some faults or shortcomings. It is incorrect – in fact it’s false – to say I do not like her & imply that is my entire assessment.
I have NOT carefully left out qualities you think she has that should be in the list. False again.
Imo, Ardern has many of the qualities I came up with. My mission was not to write them around any particular PM, but to come with my ideal list, from my own perspective. Then see who seemed to meet all or most of them.
Those qualities are all mostly “transferable”. That skill set could almost be used in an authoritarian administration or…cough…a neo liberal state like New Zealand with a monetarist consensus among main parties. You know–free as possible in and out flow of capital, deregulation, managerialist culture, penetration of public infrastructure by private capital…that kind of thing.
What is missing is a requirement for a class left political understanding, analysis and action plan.
Certainly Gezza. Just from my perspective who needs highly efficient, even likeable leaders, that end up reinforcing capitalist class power via the neo liberal state and legislation?
It is time for a referendum on monetarism–it has never been put to the vote–not when Roger slipped it in, and Ruth aggressively continued TINA–because for the main parties structural neo liberalism is the default cultural and legislative setting via Reserve Bank Act, State Sector Act etc.
To have a referendum you have to be able to ask a clear question that can, normally, be answered with a YES or a NO. It is possible to have more than two answers but they still have to be in a simple form. ie I choose A or I choose B or I choose C.
Are all these qualities of equal value or are they different.
For example, to me, John Key scores very highly in the strong category whereas Jacinda Ardern doesn't however Jacinda scores highly on the clear vision but John does not
So do you have a ranking for what qualities are higher or lower or what qualities you're willing to 'let go' if the other qualities are there
Also, in your opinion, how would Bill English gone as leader if he'd had a proper go of it
how would Bill English gone as leader if he'd had a proper go of it
As leader of the Nats for 3 years, including 10 months as PM, English did have "a proper go of it"; personally I think English, Bridges, Muller and Kaye would all be doing a better job of leading the Nats than the incumbent, but that's not saying much, is it?
I listed them in no particular order orher than when they popped into my head & I wrote them down, Pucky.
I haven’t considered weighting them, or assigning them a priority, because I see them as a desirable set & see no useful purpose in trying to assign one quality as of more value than another when the caucus, & the national situations, can change at each eiection & throw any such attempt up in the air.
If you want to make claims about people (commenters, public figures, people in the news), then please back up. You can express opinions but once it crosses into details about people or events etc, you have to make the argument and support it with evidence.
From the Policy,
This includes making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof (and that doesn’t mean endless links to unsubstantial authorities) or even argue when requested to do so. Such comments may be deleted without warning or one of the alternatives below may be employed. The action taken is completely up to the moderator who takes it.
The reason for that is to keep the debate robust. When people have links to understand a comment in context, the debate improves. Likewise when people explain their thinking.
Occasional educational short bans are likely from me over the next few months as I don’t want to be spending my time chasing people up on this. If you find your comments aren’t appearing, check the Replies tab to see if one of the mods has replied to you. If you can’t see the Replies tab, ask for help.
CV has gone off on a self imposed exile. Fallen a long way from a former Labour party candidate, into the Trump/Antivax rabbit hole. Sad to see a capable mind fall prey to nihilism
Sorry to hear that CV has fallen down the Trump/Antivax rabbit hole. It was an inevitable trajectory.
Start believing one pro fascist far right narrative and it is only a small step to the next one, and the next after that.
so the grandswill organised protests got less vehicles going through our cities than a bunch of boy racers on a casual night out . thoughts on how huge the mother of all protests wasnt?
my favourite "camera angles" case was Prebble doing a live piece to camera for ACT (yes, it was that long ago). It was in Hagley Park, for breakfast tv ISTR.
Anyway, Prebble was in front, and behind him were half a dozen or so supporters with a huge number of balloons. Sure enough, a slight gust of wind momentarily parted the balloons and through the crack there was nobody for at least a hundred yards, save one person in the distance looking vaguely towards the camera as their dog sniffed around a tree.
Hope this doesn't cause inadvertant offence to anyone, but I spotted it in my feed on a very rare visit to my Farcebook page last night & I thought it was funny….
If he wasn't then, current law change proposals may change that.
Freedom of expression is one of the primary tenets of liberty in Canada, but that may soon change.
Trans activists are cleverly constructing the legal censorship of those of us who still dare to name reality. At the forefront of this charge is trans activist Morgane Oger, who became infamous for convincing the City of Vancouver to defund Canada’s last remaining “female only” rape crisis centre. The Morgane Oger Foundation has been lobbying the Canadian government to regulate the internet, to curb, so-called ‘hate speech’, and on May 16, 2019 delivered testimony to the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.
…Perhaps trans activist and professional dominatrix Hailey Heartless described the situation best when he tweeted: “The difference between us is, women like me get podiums, radio interviews, book deals, meetings with lawmakers and national audiences, women like you get your little niche newsletter and your slowly disappearing ‘safe spaces’.” Although he was mocking us, he was right. And once trans rights lobbyists, like Morgane Oger, are consulted by the Canadian government for their input on what to ban specifically, those newsletters and our voices will be lost.
It confused me. I still can't get my head around things like this (I probably never will)
Then it just made me sad, not sad like going to the cupboard and going to grab a biscuit then remembering you're on a diet sad, but sad as in this is how the worlds of 1984 or The Handmaids Tale begin.
As for Jordon Peterson…..I am glad expresses the opinions he does (mostly). A lot of it I don't agree with it, some I do.
Watched him interviewed by a feminist Helen (sorry forgotten her name) journalist.
I think its good he raises stuff about men and their contribution and service and how its men who die in wars, who CS more and who are murdered more.
But I think neither of them stressed how female biology has disadvantaged us. We are phyically weaker and we have time out for child birth and mothering (I know things are changing with this, but that is why women have more rights now).
Also most men are wired to pursue sex with females (biologically for survival of the species) but within this men have viewed women as sex objects for their gratification. Obviously this isn't the whole picture. But an importatnt one that contributes to inequality in the sexes.
'Also most men are wired to pursue sex with females (biologically for survival of the species) but within this men have viewed women as sex objects for their gratification. Obviously this isn't the whole picture. But an importatnt one that contributes to inequality in the sexes.'
Hi Molly, I came across this excerpt from a longer video. In it Africa Brooke says how she had decided what to think about Peterson, and that gets 'unpacked'.
I understand JP can get on people's nerves. I think this clip is worthwhile and gets very touching near the end when JP reveals the impact 'the haters' had on him.
Since my awareness of this issue (BDMRR) was raised by y'all here on TS I have been reading, learning and getting informed.
I am frustratingly not going to engage in the discussion as there are quite a few threads intertwined and I much rather korero in the flesh where subtleties can be expressed. I can see integrity on both sides of the issue but get turned off when debate goes to the extreme end to make a point. Most of the extremities come from overseas.
Also, as McFlock demonstrates below, chatter gets shut down quick or bogged down in petty point scoring.
It's not like Ta-Nehisi Coates is a run of the mill "hater". If "one of the foremost black intellectuals" is calling you out on something, best have a wee think.
He may be "one of the foremost black intellectuals" but hes certainly not a good comic book writer, this guy on the other hand is, and before you put on your big boy pants, Just Some Guy is black and Bisexual (since labels seem important to you), the first youtube clip is from 2018 just to let you know
Dunno about any of that, already watched one damned video of not much today, surprised I bothered with that.
The point I made was that if someone one describes as being a foremost intellectual satirises one's material (and more specifically how one's core audience recieves it), then some self reflection is in order. Peterson obviously respects Coates. Possibly should reflect upon the criticism, then.
The sad fact is there hasn't been an intellectual argument capable of supporting Marxism since Marx; and his own arguments have been disproved worldwide ever since his were made.
Yet Jordan Peterson is the one who is uneducated about him……
The point was that a supposedly deep thinker turned up to a debate using only a cursory reading of the communist manifesto to discuss marxism in general.
I'm not defending Marx, Žižek did that. Quite competently. Maybe he'd have had a more difficult task if his opponent had done his homework and actually knew the subject area at hand.
The usual transparent tactic when anyone points out marxism's manifest, catastrophic failures is to pretend 'oh that wasn't real communism'.
Peterson responds that when someone says that, what they're really claiming is 'that if I was in charge of the revolution, it would have all turned out differently'.
Which of course is nothing but a monumental conceit.
Also it may usefully inform us about where each is likely to go too far – due to a distorted overweighting of their primary motive. Conservatives become tyrants when driven by a sense of ‘purity’ engage in race supremacy and jingoist fascism. Liberals when their desire for ‘freedom’ becomes a repudiation of society and manifests as libertarianism and neo-liberal economic theories. And socialists are prone to stepping over the ‘caring’ line when they promote political theories intended to impose equality of outcomes – marxism and it’s modern derivatives in particular.
Capitalism is not complicated – it requires no appeal to an arcane theory that can only be understood by the high priests of the cult. It's a rather simple set of economic tools and ideas relating to business formalism, rule of law and markets. Neloliberalism on the other hand was the stupid theory that these useful tools would work if you applied them to everything.
OK so in short words you might understand – derivatives are a risk mitigation tool. Within limits they work very well, outside of those limits they don't.
Like say double entry book-keeping, the technical details take a bit of learning, but the basic idea is simple enough to understand. Unless of course you're determined not to.
Otherwise I see you've completely failed to address the substance of my comment and wandered off down a path of your own bewilderment.
@ arkie and In Vino, you might find some ideas of retired clinical psychologist Daniel helpful in regard to understanding scorn – I did.
In the meantime, I am trusting that you will evaluate my ideas on the basis of their relevance, reasonableness, and fit with your own experience. Readers have the right to disagree. I only ask that you do so thoughtfully and respectfully – for your sake as much as for mine. This would involve resisting two opposing tendencies. First would be a fault-finding dismissal based on a close-minded adherence to your preconceived notions. Second, and just as problematic, would be a total, unquestioning buy-in, so that you can apply the suggestions without questioning or critical thinking. I hope that you find a middle ground between these two extremes, so that you can continue exploring these matters in a spirit of curiosity, adventure, and awe. And if you like, keep me informed on your progress with this quest.
Boundaries. Marxism takes the good idea that the extremes of wealth and poverty should be moderated – and goes too far by demanding equal outcomes. Wherever and whenever this boundary is stepped over the actual result has been catastrophe.
You wouldn't suggest a 'reasoned discussion' with the ChCh mass murderer – and he only killed 51 people. Why would I engage with an ideology that directly, openly requires the violent eradication of entire classes of 'oppressors'?
Our definitions are not aligned which makes a conversation unproductive. I outlined my working definitions here.
Capitalism, conservatism and socialism normally co-exist in a balance in all modern societies. Some tilt more toward one pole than the other. However:
When the idea of liberal capitalism – which is essentially the actions of the individual within a market context – is taken too far you get neo-liberalism or libertarianism.
When the idea of conservatism – which is essentially about making what is known and trusted work in a stable fashion – is taken too far you get fascism, race purity and tyranny.
When the idea of socialism – which is about moderating the extremes of wealth and poverty, and protecting the most vulnerable – is taken too far into imposing equal outcomes you get communism and all the cultist woke variations it’s morphed into.
Using these rough definitions, ordinary conservatism, capitalism and socialism are within the bounds of acceptable political discourse. The others are demonstrably worthless ideologies.
You would be taken seriously if you actually knew what Communism is, or read what Marx really wrote. Instead of mindlessly repeating the US idea, that Communists are any Government they don't like.
Hint. A State that has a Dictatorship, and Nomenclatura., is by definition, not Communist.
Any more than another Dictatorship that claimed to be Socialist, while murdering millions, was Socialist.
Even more funny. When it is noted that "Communist" China pulled millions out of poverty more recently. Your fellow parrots start saying. "China is Capitalist, not Communist".
I am a supporter of a Democratic mixed economy. But note that Marx was largely correct. Though much of his analysis was the product of his time, it is still one of the best descriptions of Capitalisms working. We are seeing the results of the Marxist theory "diminishing rate of return on capital” in the developed countries now. It is only revolution or the threat of revelation that removes the Kleptocracy. Such as the UK after WW2. Where they started looking after returning soldiers and workers for fear of becoming Russia.
Not Marx's wishes. A description of reality.
Revolutions tend to end up with the most violent anti democratic and ruthless arseholes on top, which is why they I certainly am against them. Some circumstances, such as Batista’s Cuba, Czarist Russia, pre revolution France,, for example, make life so bad for so many that it becomes inivitable.
The US one is a good example. Resulting in a Constitution of "checks and balances" which ensure that "The Masses" will never have Democratic power over the "elite". Little different from Soviet Russia or China. Except the USA does propaganda, fooling the populace, better. As your repeating it proves.
You would be taken seriously if you actually knew what Communism is, or read what Marx really wrote.
You didn't need to read the ChCh's mass murderer's 'manifesto' to know it was a worthless pile of shit. So why the fuck would anyone take Marx's driveling nonsense seriously>
' Marx increasingly became preoccupied with an attempt to understand the contemporary capitalist mode of production, as driven by a remorseless pursuit of profit, whose origins are found in the extraction of surplus value from the exploited proletariat. The precise role of morality and moral criticism in Marx’s critique of contemporary capitalist society is much discussed, and there is no settled scholarly consensus on these issues. His understanding of morality may be related to his account of ideology, and his reflection on the extent to which certain widely-shared misunderstandings might help explain the stability of class-divided societies'- excerpt Stanford Eof Philosophy
Yes I do that Aussie cunt an injustice – he only managed 51 dead. Marx and Engels however openly justified and advocated for the eradication of entire classes of people.
Can't find a citation to back up your claim. Eh. Redlogix? Because, as we know, there isn't one.
Pontificating on "what Marx said" without actually bothering to find out what he really said, when it has shaped so much thought on the "Political economy" including influencing a whole lot of Economists, including the ones that disagreed with him, such as Milton Freidman, shows a refusal to inform yourself.
Like commenting on Western philosophy while ignoring the bible.
Commenting on modern economics while ignoring Marx, is failing to educate yourself.
How many people have been murdered in the name of Jesus Christ, who, if he really existed, only advocated for violently overturning money lenders tables?
Marx in his final and culminating paragraph of the The Communist Manifesto stated:
"The Communists openly declare that their ends can only be attained by the forcible overthrow of all existing social conditions. Let the ruling classes tremble at a Communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains.
The ambiguity of the word 'forcible' was not in question for the three of Marx's most prominent followers who all engaged in violent revolutions aimed at eradicating those they declared to be the 'oppressor' class.
Weasel all you like – the stack of bodies still buried every metre or so under the Highway of Bones is proof enough for any sane person.
If you had been a serf or factory worker in Czarist Russia. I think you would have been rather keen on “removing the oppressor”.
Unfortunately replaced with another. Would you have supported anyone who “violently removed” Stalin?
Which sort of confirms what Marx said about the History of class struggle.
We will forget about the fact that the US “highway of bones” must be getting in numbers close to Stalin by now. But they are mostly Brown people, so, who cares.
Your denial of the fucking obvious is contemptible. Unlike you I did get to travel over that grim Highway I mentioned above – on the way to a gold processing project in the region. You on the other hand cannot even bring yourself to name it.
The last para of the paramount document in all of marxist literature calls for a forcible overthrow of the social order – an instruction carried out to the fucking letter by actual marxist revolutionaries and you pretend it has another meaning.
Your conflation of the actions of 20th century dictators with the readily accessible writings of 19th century political activists is not only disingenuous but also inaccurate, as you yourself have demonstrated.
Don’t get me wrong: regimes that took the name “communist” – from Stalin’s to Pol Pot’s – committed unspeakable, monstrous crimes. But for the right, a revival of interest in Marx’s pre-Stalinist vision of communism is the most striking and chilling example of its own collapsing ideological supremacy: “communism” is synonymous with tens of millions of deaths and nothing else. Capitalism, by contrast, is presented as a largely bloodless, blameless engine of human prosperity.
The story of capitalism is more complicated than that. If you want to read effusive praise of capitalism, you’ll find it in Marx and Engels’ Communist Manifesto: the revolutionary dynamism of the capitalists, they wrote, had created “wonders far surpassing Egyptian pyramids, Roman aqueducts, and Gothic cathedrals”. But capitalism is an economic system drenched in the blood of countless millions.
…
Capitalism was built on the bodies of millions from the very start. From the late 17th century onwards, the transatlantic slave trade became a pillar of emergent capitalism. Much of the wealth of London, Bristol and Liverpool – once the largest slave trading port in Europe – was made from the enslaved labour of Africans. The capital accumulated from slavery – from tobacco, cotton and sugar – drove the industrial revolution in Manchester and Lancashire; and several banks today can trace their origins to profits made from slavery.
Capitalism was built on the bodies of millions from the very start. From the late 17th century onwards, the transatlantic slave trade became a pillar of emergent capitalism.
Spare me the tedious whaddaboudism.
Slavery is an ancient almost universal feature of most known historic societies – pre-dating capitalism by millenia. For a relatively short period slavery and an emerging capitalism overlapped, but very quickly capitalist industrialisation led to the direct end of chattel slavery. (A process incidentally led largely by the same class of 'exploiting' Europeans Owen Jones manages to completely ignore.)
If not for this capitalism you hate so much, slavery would be as commonplace and endemic as ever. Statistically you wouldn't even be alive and able to type out your complaints about it here.
Capitalism is a great system … for the capitalists. Pretty shit for the workers, the environment, wildlife, democracy, or ethics. IMNSHO is it a spiritual force of evil
Current estimates are that about 12 million to 12.8 million Africans were shipped across the Atlantic over a span of 400 years. The number purchased by the traders was considerably higher, as the passage had a high death rate with approximately 1.2-2.4 million dying during the voyage and millions more in seasoning camps in the Caribbean after arrival in the New World. Millions of people also died as a result of slave raids, wars, and during transport to the coast for sale to European slave traders.
Slavery in the 21st Century. OK so lets look at this – because clearly you didn't. Well bugger me there right at the top, a map showing where it remains most prevalent. All arguably the last places on earth you'd hold up as liberal democratic, developed 'rule of law', capitalist style nations.
How generous of those European nations to abolish slavery after benefitting from it for 400 years.
More denial. Virtually every major historic society featured slavery due to their lack of industrialisation. The only time and places where slavery has been made both permanently illegal and largely abolished have been those featuring a capitalist industrialisation – which really started to dominate from the early to mid 1800’s.
So slavery didn’t end, as you claimed, it is still ongoing despite the law. In a globalised economy those on the top still benefit from it no matter where it occurs.
In the 21st Century, almost every country has legally abolished chattel slavery, but the number of people currently enslaved around the world is far greater than the number of slaves during the historical Atlantic slave trade.
but the number of people currently enslaved around the world is far greater than the number of slaves during the historical Atlantic slave trade.
A typical piece of intellectual dishonesty that has to erase context to even look faintly plausible.
For a start the human population has increased roughly ten-fold in that period. Failing to correct for that alone makes it a meaningless comparison. To make matters worse it compares one subset of slavery, the trans-Atlantic trade, with the total global trade today.
For a second – those places where it remains most prevalent are the least developed places on earth. Nothing much of any 'benefit' comes from these places that could not be done more efficiently and profitably without slavery.
And while this residual slavery is of course deplorable – at maybe 40m people and maybe $150b of revenue it represents a diminishing and very minor fraction of the total global economy.
Given that chattel slavery is virtually non-existent in all the developed, industrialised, capitalist nations that feature a reliable rule of law and property rights – the obvious way to fully and finally eradicate slavery is to extend these conditions everywhere.
I agree with Marx's view of capital as an "egregore"; a disembodied entity with its own demonic life force; which describes the modern multinational corporation such as BlackRock perfectly. This is a popular essay on the topic:
RL. Are you really trying to argue that Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin only existed because Marx?
All the hundreds of other bloody despots in history. Many before Marx was even born. Robespierre, Pinochet, Hitler, the Shah, Stroessner, Suharto, Videla. The many that came out on top after revolutions. All due to Marx?
Are you really trying to argue that Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin only existed because Marx?
They absolutely relied on marxism as their justification. All monsters need an ideology to give cover to their madness – and classical marxism is certainly not the only one they turn to.
And as I've carefully outlined, but everyone ignores, ideology is what you get when you take a good idea in isolation, like fairness, purity, or freedom and make it into a totalising solution that will deliver some future utopia. Which is promised to be so wonderful that any amount of destruction and horror is justified to achieve it.
Which is essentially what all of the tyrants you have named share in common.
It is the wannabee tyrant that uses it as an excuse.
In the case of marxism the tyranny is baked in. Because the goal is equality of outcome but all humans are different – the revolution must impose it's new social order. The oppressor class must be overthrown and replaced with the worker class – who will magically deliver the promised utopia. (Exactly how remains mostly unexamined.)
Authoritarian personalities are deeply drawn to this prospect, they imagine they will be the ones doing the 'redistributing'. All the petty tyrants – and they lurk everywhere – come out of the woodwork like the zombies in World War Z to inflict their revenge for every slight and hurt they've carefully nurtured.
Those who have lived through communism say that it was not so much the brutality of the state they feared – because they expected that – but that no-one not even their family, could be trusted not to betray them. As a result everyone spoke in lies all the time.
Ta-Nehisi Coates … "one of the foremost black intellectuals"
LOL … more like one of the High Priests of the Critical Race Theory Religious Cult of which you are a particularly ambitious & dogmatic local cheerleader.
Somewhat akin to a Church of Scientology enforcer.
But don't let that stop you. Please, tell me more about how much I have written here about Critical Race Theory. If I'm a prominent cheerleader of it, please provide the links.
You have to go to the annotated links for that detail, but it is there..
eg. No. 3 – Combatting hate speech and hate crimes: Proposed legislative changes to the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code – Canadian Govt site.
yeah, I don't even have my head around the NZ legislation, not going to deep dive on the Canadian's, so left not much the wiser. She might be right, or she might be over egging it. It's a problem, including in NZ, that we don't have many straightforward explanations of legislation (not just in this area).
On the subject of systemic racism in medicine. This was mentioned on Morning Report. That pulse oximeters have an inbuilt bias. The readings for those with non white skin aren’t as accurate.
“Pulse oximetry devices used for warning of low blood oxygenation in covid-19 and other diseases may be missing three times as many cases of occult hypoxaemia in black patients as in white, says a study report published in the New England Journal of Medicine.1
Researchers looked at over 48 000 pulse oximetry readings in 8675 US white patients and 1326 US black patients, comparing them with more accurate arterial oxygen saturation measures taken almost contemporaneously.
Among white patients whose pulse oximetry readings were 92-96%, the proportion who actually had arterial oxygen saturation below 88% was 3.6% (95% confidence interval 2.5% to 4.6%). But among black patients the proportion actually below that figure was 11.4% (7.6% to 15.2%).
“Our results suggest that reliance on pulse oximetry to triage patients and adjust supplemental oxygen levels may place black patients at increased risk for hypoxaemia,” noted the study authors, from the University of Michigan Medical School. The study is the latest of many to find that current assumptions and algorithms, often derived from heavily white patient populations, may work against black patients.2”
When products are developed by predominantly white folks, they fail to take colour into account. The same has been found with facial recognition software.
No easy fix, unless tertiary institutions take affirmative action more seriously.
How about "men like me", who mimic women outwardly and to different degrees of success, who have an innate feeling of womanhood without any of the experience of being female.Who feel more comfortable in life presenting as a woman , looking like a woman ,behaving as if they were a woman
Women they are not, unless we are to tear down our understanding of reproduction of mammalian species, based on binary sex.And totally demolish the language that has evolved around that
Anyone keen to start degendering French and Spanish etc?
We are barely human in the eyes of some. And this movement is a MRA movement for middle class white male to assert their dominance over NON Males and bros will be supporting it. In the end, bros will not suffer from this, only non bros. And thus it was ever since.
I have long maintained the idea that men will never be allies of women. And this movement demonstrates it so nicely.
We are no longer a class. We are something that anyone can be and no one can define.
That's a sad perspective. Most men love the women and girls in their lives, and would protect them ahead of their own life. Don't focus on the criminals when most guys are quietly working to make the world better.
But the 'class' of men that is the other 50% of the worlds population is not a womens friend. Not even to their 'own' women such as 'their' wife or 'their' child.
Please point where 'guys' are working quietly to make things better for women by allowing men into female prisons, female shelters, female rape crisis centres, female changing rooms, female toilets, female swimming hours, female sports, female awards, female hospital wards and oh allowing male lesbians to demand women suck their lady dicks in the name of lesbianism.
I can't wait to see that, cause all of these things are being pushed through not by criminals but by lawmakers, lawyers, opinion makers, journalists, and the likes. Unless you are calling these people criminals and i am just missing the 'joke' in all of that.
You will find that if you look long enough at the Labour Party – the one which is currently in a single majority government – that it is not a bunch of idealistic millennial women with their heads in the clouds – but full of men and women being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars each to make this into law, and they are cynically enough to push that into law, knowing full well that non of that will ever really affect them.
You will find that if you look long enough – and you have all the submissions to watch for the spectacle of rude manners, the condescending bullthittery that came courtesy of the idealistic middle aged women of the Labour and Green Party – that Mme Kere Kere, Mme Wall, Mme Russel et al, – are really pushing hard for this to become law.
You will find that if you look long enough, that it is our lawmaker in government who push that shit on women – no debate and all – and non of the men in parliament are saying a single word but then maybe they are cowards. Who knows.
You will find that if you look long enough, that maybe it is time for the silent blokes who love 'their women' and 'their mothers' and 'their daughters' to maybe just maybe start speaking up on behalf of 'their' women.
You will find that if you look long enough, that maybe it is time for the silent blokes who love ‘their women’ and ‘their mothers’ and ‘their daughters’ to maybe just maybe start speaking up on behalf of ‘their’ women.
The problem with this solution is that two generations of men who have done so have been shouted down by women for having the temerity to “think they can speak on women’s behalf”.
And even the “tone’ of that sentence I quote, and the negative, sarcastic-seeming framing of the word “their” (apparently implying men still think they own women in this country, which is nonsense) makes men want to back out & leave it to the girls & women to fight their own battles. Which is precisely what we have been told to do over & over again by misandrist females for several decades now.
Change your language, & your approach, if you want help from men. And don’t ask “men” to change other people they can’t, any more than you can.
Newsflash: Men are not all the exact same creature, always collectively perceiving & acting in their own common group interest. That thinking is shite.
We are unique all individuals & how we relate to the women in our lives is unique & individual too. The biggest influence on who I am, how I relate to people, & how I perceive things was my mother, not my father. Though I loved them both equally, nature & nurture has made me more like mum than dad in personality. And I’m comfortable with that – because I think it makes me a nicer MAN.
Change your language, & your approach, if you want help from men. And don’t ask “men” to change other people they can’t, any more than you can.
well then, I won't expect YOU to help women – who may or may not be 'yours', as i won't change my language. But then, i don't expect men to help. I don't expect men to be allies of anyone who is not a man. I simply expect men to stand by and do nothing. As usual.
But then, i don’t expect men to help. I don’t expect men to be allies of anyone who is not a man. I simply expect men to stand by and do nothing. As usual.
I help women all the time. I also help men. Anyone who asks for my help generally gets it, if I can actually help. That’s how I was brought up.
I don’t know your full story, but some of your recent comments that I have read – and your pseudonym – point to a harrowing background, & who knows maybe even PTSD. Apparently your experience has prejudiced you against men in general.
I am sorry if that is so, but don’t expect to get away with frequently lambasting men in general because of your distorted perception of what “men” are like. You are not a man & you don’t know what you are talking about. Talking only to others who feel the same way about men will never open your eyes to what most men are really like.
And lambasting & hectoring “men” will just see you mentally categorised as a man-hater & ignored because of it, imo.
What starts off as politeness and empathy (addressing transwomen as if they were in fact truly women ) can end being embedded in policy and law, to the detriment of women
Yeah had this discussion one with some women who were lamenting their negotiation skills and deciding that they had to get better at it.
They discovered that all the men who started with them started on significantly higher salaries than they did. They had decided it was their own fault – most were more skilled and experienced than the men.
I pointed out that the person who was responsible for employing them was the only person who knew all the salaries he was starting people on and that he had made conscious decisions about each and everyone including the context of gender and the obvious disparity. These were conscious decisions to pay all the men more. The only person who could have fixed it at the time was that person.
Therein lies most of the problem – if the people who could fix it wanted to do so they don't need committees, investigations, protests, unions, legislation, etc to do so. They just need to exercise the power they already have. That they choose not to is deliberate.
When you consider the angry right and the disappointed left, that is a remarkably low number. Compare leaders of other democracies: Boris Johnson, for example has an approval rating of 25% (source: YouGov). In fact, the Evil Cindy Dictator is so unpopular in her country that she must resign no other leader in any Western democracy has a higher approval rating (except Angela Merkel as she bids farewell). And this is after a slump.
I was looking at that damned thing, and didn't get the "Mrs Ed" comment at all. Must have gotten so distracted by the overt racism that it overloaded my fuckwit-detector.
I'm ok with that in this case – it's so beyond the pale that the right whingers will end up throwing money at them. As it is, nobody can boycott it because airbnb has already ditched it from their listings.
This way, they don't even get the oxygen of complaining about freeze peach and vuctumhood.
Although NZ being small as it is, it'll probably get out in a couple of days. Even if the owners don't out themselves to explain how it was just a joke, or what have you.
Barry Soper being a real pushy prick thinking his questions are the only important ones at the stand up this afternoon. Jacinda is more patient with him than I would be.
Never thought I would see the day when this blog waxes lyrical about Jordan Peterson, guy who wants to roll back all the social gains over the last 50 years and restore a puritanical patriarchial society where all forms of pleasure are outlaws, and LGBT's have no rights.
No wonder I dont post here much any more. You guys are getting worse and worse each day.
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A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Photo by Jari Hytönen on UnsplashIt’s that new day of the week (Thursday rather than Friday) when and I co-host our ‘hoon’ webinar with paying subscribers to The Kākā for an hour at 5 pm. Jump on this link on YouTube Livestream for our chat about the week’s news ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government is talking up the crucial role of gas as a transition fuel “through to 2050 and beyond”. In a gas strategy to be released on Thursday, the government envisages the fuel’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Next week the government will again next try to get its legislation through to deal with non-citizens who won’t cooperate with efforts to deport them. The bill, which the opposition and crossbench refused to rush ...
A long-term project that will set out an alternative vision for Aotearoa that looks beyond the narrow confines of the policy straight jacket adopted by successive governments. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Bree Hurst, Associate Professor, Faculty of Business and Law, QUT, Queensland University of Technology TK Kurikawa/Shutterstock A much-awaited report into Coles and Woolworths has found what many customers have long believed – Australia’s big supermarkets engage in price gouging. What started ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daniel Ghezelbash, Associate Professor and Deputy Director, Kaldor Centre for International Refugee Law, UNSW Law & Justice, UNSW Sydney The Albanese government wanted to avoid an inquiry into its migration amendment bill. The report, handed down yesterday by a senate committee that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Joo-Cheong Tham, Professor, Melbourne Law School, The University of Melbourne Lobbying is at the heart of government. Who has access to and influence over key government officials shapes the decisions governments make – and how they make them. The ability to influence ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Myfany Turpin, Associate Professor, Ethnomusicology, Linguistics and Ethnobiology, University of Sydney The act representing Australia at this year’s Eurovision contest has sadly not qualified for the grand final. Yet for Zaachariaha Fielding and Michael Ross, the duo that makes up Electric Fields, ...
In announcing changes to the school lunches programme, David Seymour said kids would no longer be served ‘woke’ foods. To clear up any confusion, The Spinoff has compiled a guide to the wokeness levels of some common food items. Apple = NOT WOKE Avocado = WOKE Avocado, smashed = EVEN ...
The Minister Responsible for GCSB and the Inspector-General of Intelligence and Security have been notified of this review, and have been provided a finalised Terms of Reference. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Minglu Chen, Senior Lecturer, Government and International Relations, University of Sydney Robert Way/Shutterstock As the past few years have illustrated so clearly, the Australia-China relationship is complicated. As such, it is crucial for Australians to develop a more nuanced understanding of ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Mariana Campbell, Research Lecturer, Conservation, Charles Darwin University Marilyn Connell Australian freshwater turtles are facing an alarming trend. Almost half of these species are listed as vulnerable, endangered or critically endangered. The Mary River turtle (Elusor macrurus) is one of Australia’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Debbie Passey, Digital Health Research Fellow, The University of Melbourne Algorithms have become integral to our lives. From social media apps to Netflix, algorithms learn your preferences and prioritise the content you are shown. Google Maps and artificial intelligence are nothing without ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Josephine Barbaro, Associate Professor, Principal Research Fellow, Psychologist, La Trobe University Unsplash We’ve come a long way in terms of understanding that everyone thinks, interacts and experiences the world differently. In the past, autistic people, people with attention deficit hyperactive disorder ...
PNG Post-Courier Papua New Guinea’s deputy opposition leader James Nomane has accused the government of “reckless economic management” that has forced devaluation to manage loan repayments in foreign currency and placate the International Monetary Fund (IMF). Prime Minister James Marape “must stop lying to the people of Papua New Guinea”, ...
Welcome to The Spinoff Bookseller Confessional, in which we get to know Aotearoa’s booksellers. This week: Jane Arthur, author of Brown Bird, and former bookseller at Good Books.The book I wish I’d writtenI have been working on not comparing myself to others. On accepting that what I can ...
The final decision on the Wellington District Plan makes it official: High-density housing is legal across most of Wellington. Housing minister Chris Bishop has announced his decision on the Wellington District Plan, approving a series of amendments to radically upzone most of Wellington, allowing tens of thousands of new townhouses ...
Analysis by Dr Bryce Edwards – Democracy Project (https://democracyproject.nz)Political scientist, Dr Bryce Edwards. “Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to ...
RNZ News As Israel presses ahead with strikes in Rafah and seizing the Rafah crossing from Egypt, aid agencies are sounding the alarm of a “catastrophic humanitarian situation”. Rafah was “significant” because it was the only part in Gaza that had not been terribly damaged by the conflict, United Nations ...
With funding set to be scrapped for the Hamilton-Auckland commuter train, Te Huia enthusiast Georgie Dansey argues for it to be thrown a lifeline. It’s 5.45am and the chain of my crappy old bike falls off slugging up the one hill in Hamilton. I contemplate yeeting the bike into the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Anna Cooke, Honorary Fellow, School of the Environment, The University of Queensland We feel ecological grief when we lose places, species or ecosystems we value and love. These losses are a growing threat to mental health and wellbeing globally. We all see ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shauna Brail, Associate Professor, Institute for Management & Innovation, University of Toronto A shift to hybrid and remote work continues to affect worker presence in Toronto’s downtown.(Shutterstock) Downtown Toronto, the core of Canada’s largest city, continues to reel from the lingering ...
Responding to an Auditor-General's report slamming failures in the administration of the 2023 General Election, Taxpayers’ Union Policy and Public Affairs Manager, James Ross, said: ...
Productivity apps now make up a big chunk of the software market. But do they work? And why do they all have AI integrations?Despite being firmly on the record as a physical planner fan, I sometimes dream of something better than my pretty diary and its scrawled, ugly, interior ...
The Taxpayers’ Union says the Beehive need to lead by example, following reports of more than $50,000 spent upgrading video conferencing equipment and furniture in the Prime Minister’s office. Taxpayers’ Union Campaign Manager, Connor Molloy, ...
An objective list of the 50 most powerful people in New Zealand, as judged by the Spinoff Editorial Board. It’s power list season, baby, and we want in on the action. Sure, there’s the rich list and the powerful “c-suite” list and the young people with power (hmmm) but here, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Thalia Anthony, Professor of Law, University of Technology Sydney ShutterstockThis article contains information on deaths in custody and the names of deceased people, and describes ongoing colonial violence towards Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. First Nations people in Australia ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Alex Simpson, Senior Lecturer in Criminology, Macquarie University Netflix Baby Reindeer’s phenomenal success has much to do with its writer and lead, Richard Gadd, who plays Donny in a tender semi-autobiographical account of sexual abuse, harassment and stalking. Gadd’s story has ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Clare Collins, Laureate Professor in Nutrition and Dietetics, University of Newcastle KarolinaGrabowska/Pexels If you didn’t have food allergies as a child, is it possible to develop them as an adult? The short answer is yes. But the reasons why are much ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Paul Moon, Professor of History, Auckland University of Technology Ans Westra, self-portrait, c. 1963. National Library ref AWM-0705-F They try but invariably fail – those writers who believe they are capable of encapsulating in prose or verse the essence of ...
Stewart Sowman-Lund looks at the growing concern around the world in this extract from The Bulletin. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. What’s all this? When Covid-19 arrived on our shores in early 2020, some argued we were too slow, or crucially, ill-prepared for a pandemic. So ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Franco Montalto, Professor of Civil, Architectural and Environmental Engineering and Director, Sustainable Water Resource Engineering Laboratory, Drexel University Water runs into a storm drain in a Los Angeles alley on Aug. 19, 2023, during Tropical Storm Hilary.Citizen of the Planet/Universal Images ...
The inquest into the death of Gore toddler Lachlan Jones has turned up a new witness who says he saw two teenagers and a small child in a high vis vest in the area where the boy’s body was found the day he died. Lachie’s body was discovered face up ...
Stories from the tenancy trenches, featuring spider infestations, cupboard rats and same-sex discrimination. Lucy’s brother was living in a damp 1930s building in Mt Eden where “he had to tie the cupboard doors closed so the rats didn’t get in”. Although he shared custody of his six-year-old son, his property ...
Simeon Brown, Chris Luxon, and Wayne Brown climbed into a hole and announced a plan to solve Auckland’s water woes. This is how it’ll work. New Zealand’s pipes are munted. They’re cracked and leaking, and struggling to handle all the extra poos excreted by our rising population. It’s a big, ...
After replacing a fifth of their caucus in just four months, the Greens’ opportunity to reset, reshuffle and refocus on the Government is quickly slipping away The post Persistent Green Party scandals delay caucus reset appeared first on Newsroom. ...
I knew Taika Waititi quite well when he was a kid. His mother lived in a tall narrow house in Aro St, and my youngest sister had a similar house two doors along. They were both single mums, they each had a son aged seven. Taika and my nephew Stepan ...
Opinion: “As time passes, knowledge of the circumstances of the August 2016 outbreak will fade and its immediate impact will be lost.” This statement is from the 2017 report of the Official Inquiry into the Havelock North campylobacteriosis outbreak. The then National-led government established the inquiry after the outbreak left ...
Opinion: Nicholas Khoo looks at two key points in the high-stakes foreign policy pact debate – and asks if NZ can engage with as little drama as possible. The post Where to next for the Aukus ruckus? appeared first on Newsroom. ...
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Blazer (Friday): What qualities do you admire in a leader Gezza?
I asked for a few hours to think about that one before replying. I’ve had that time now (n between some rellies joining me for a few days in a working bee i n & around Pookden Manor) & I’ve decided to frame my response around the qualities I think a good PM should have – as that was the context of our discussion .
Others please feel free to critique my list, or add or replace anything they think is missing, or they have a better “quality” for.
………………………..
A Good PM
Intelligent. Able to understand complex issues & identify constructive solutions to problems, both individually & when working collectively with Cabinet, caucus, departmental advisers & industry experts.
Good communicator. Always clear. Circumspect when the situation requires it (eg for reasons of national security, diplomacy, or policy not finalised yet) but not vague or waffly.
Good people skills. Relates easily & well to people of all backrounds. Knows how to spot talent (intelligence, people skills, capacity for learning and hard work) among caucus members. Matches colleagues’ abilities to portfolios well.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals for Government, so that Ministers know what their departments – and THEY – are expected to achieve, & by when.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals for New Zealand as a society & as an independent country with its own unique national goals, priorities, & interdependencies, & international relationships.
Good People Manager. Recognises & rewards good performance by MPs by promoting them; rewards persistent bad performance or clear lack of ability by demoting MPs or not appointing them to important portfolios.
Consultative, but also decisive when Cabinet or Caucus reach an impasse & a decision MUST be taken – even if that decision subsequently turns out to be a wrong one.
Tolerant of Cabinet Ministers’ & backbench MP’s mistakes – within sensible (common sense) limits! Nobody’s perfect. Recognises this when things go wrong for Party MPs within the Parliamentary working environment, but ensures that lessons are learned.
Strong. Does not shy from sacking Ministers or taking other disciplinary measures when these are clearly required because of MP foolishness or grossly inappropriate / unlawful behaviour.
Hi Gezza, I'm not sure of the context you were asked to define Leadership but having read your list i am wondering, in our lifetime, do you think any other PM has had more of those qualities than our current one? I know others will disagree but it seems to me that Ardern fits most, if not all, of those qualities.
I’m pondering that one, RBO. Give me some time.
I came up with this list based on what qualities, from my observations over my lifetime, a good chairperson of a board, AND a good CEO (private or government) has. Because, imo, a good PM essentially combines those two roles.
Sometimes a good COTB & a good CEO has the intelligence to appoint others who have some qualities they lack to fill the gaps as their trusted advisers. Helen Clark did this with H2, for example.
I didn’t try & write it around a particular PM, but from what I remember, Norman Kirk comes close meeting most of those. Jacinda Ardern, I’m not quite so sure. Judith Collins however doesn’t get within a bull’s roar of meeting most of those requirements, in my view.
Gezza: you've expressed your disenchantment with Jacinda Ardern before, and here, it seems, you've set up a format for criticising NZ Prime Ministers; is your hope that commenters here will similarly share their anxieties about Jacinda?
I was pleased to read the response from Red Blooded One.
“Gezza: you’ve expressed your disenchantment with Jacinda Ardern before, and here, it seems, you’ve set up a format for criticising NZ Prime Ministers;”
G: No I haven’t. I’ve set out the qualities I personally think a good PM has. Jacinda Ardern has some of those qualities. Or, at least, sometimes she displays them. Helen Clark has many of those qualities. John Key had some, but not others & I learned not to trust Key.
I believe I’m a more dispassionate observer than you are when it comes to such issues, as I’m not politically tribal, Robert, like you are.
Reminds me: One obvious quality I completely missed out & I’m now adding adding. Honesty.
“is your hope that commenters here will similarly share their anxieties about Jacinda?”
G: No. You should know me well enuf by now. If that is what I meant, that is what I would have said. When I post, I say what I mean, & I mean what I say. I’m always happy to clarify if questioned, so thank you for at least asking that question. Don’t try and read my mind, Robert. You are no better a mind-reader than I am. And I can’t read minds.
“I was pleased to read the response from Red Blooded One.”
G: So was I.
Your original post was clear, and thought provoking. FWIW:
Intelligent: Undoubtedly
Good communicator: This has been her strength; in recent months there is a risk it is becoming her weakness. An example: the proposed hate speech legislation.
Good people skills: Yes to your first point. Not so much to your second.
Sets clear vision & strategic goals (etc): No. I sense at times there is no overriding vision beyond slogans, but to be fair that could be because of the nature of our political system (e.g. in the first term she was in a coalition with a party that she is not ideologically comfortable with).
Good people manager: Jury's out. In fact this one is hard to gauge unless you are close to the workings of her caucus.
Consultative but also decisive: Again that's difficult without being an insider.
Tolerant of Cabinet Ministers’ & backbench MP’s mistakes/Strong: I've combined these. At times she's been too tolerant. Phil Twyford, David Clark and Clare Curran both got too much latitude, and right now Poto Williams and Kris Faafoi are being given latitude I'm not sure they deserve. But I'll say this – the PM may be hamstrung if she senses a lack of depth in her caucus. In other words a perceived weakness in this category may in fact reflect strengths in others as she seeks to balance the work needing doing with the talent available.
The best way to handle people given latitude is to give them none of course.
What were the excesses of latitudes Ardern gave David Clark and Clare Curran?
"The best way to handle people given latitude is to give them none of course."
I assume that's sarcasm. I run an international business, and I give my team a lot of latitude, but in return my expectations are clear, as are the consequences of non performance.
"What were the excesses of latitudes Ardern gave David Clark and Clare Curran?"
It took too long for her to sack them, in a nutshell. And she prevaricated. On the On 7/9/18 she said Curran's job was 'not on the line', yet accepted her resignation just hours later.
They were going off on tangents and not team players add a level of incompetency too.No govt either National or Labour are all of the same competency just like Key and Clark they pushed out liabilities.
To also show that those who didn't stick to the team plan consequences are coming .
I felt sure you were meaning the discussion to focus on Jacinda Ardern, Gezza, but if you mean us to discuss PM's from the past as well, may I ask you about your statement:
"I learned not to trust Key"
You trusted Key initially, then learned not to trust him?
For what reasons did you find him trustworthy, initially?
What made you distrust him, ultimately?
I never liked or trusted Sir John.
Sorry Robert. Not really interested in thinking about & then commenting further on Key. Projects to do at Pookden Manor & a perfect, sunny, wind-free mornng for doing them. Getting out there and into them while I’m still able to. Later, dude. 👍🏼
Ah! Just Ardern then.
No. Already told you, Robert, you’re a hopeless mind reader.
The way YOU think is NOT the way I think.
Give up trying to needle me. Not gonna work. 🙄
Find something more productive to do.
Hang in there Gezza
Robert gets a hard-on either defending Jacinda or having a go at a previous poster named James.
Other than that his posts are generally good.
Love your posts on the ducks and general commentary. Really enjoy reading the non-partisan commentators on this site
@ Westykev
Thanks kev. That sort of encouragement makes me want to continue to contribute.
I note that dissent & non-partisan commenters seem to be quite welcome here of late & I like that.
I’m always prepared to change my views if I’m persuaded by a good argument, or if I’m shown to be clearly wrong – at least, I hope I am.
I read a lot more here than I comment on.
Key had me thinking finally an honest politican till about 4 months out from the 2008 election ,then I remember my bullshit detector starting screeching, I had know real political leaning back then .
I voted Key in 2008 because he promised to address the housing crisis and child poverty. What a sucker I was.
And I bet you have been voting for whoever promised to fix the same problems at every election that has followed.
And guess what? Both problems have got worse every single time. What are you going to do in 2023?
And you voted Adern in 2017 and 2020?
How has housing and child poverty gotten better?
fool me once shame on you…
and remember, we were asked by Adern to judge her by her solutions to these issues
Voted TOP last time. I'm in Seymour's electorate and can't remember my electorate vote, still traumatised.
Voted TOP?!? no wonder you are traumatised
Are you pleased with the results on poverty and housing under this government?
No. Deeply pissed off at this incrementalist wet bus ticket neoliberal status quo gutless Blairite pack of weasels who are happy for homeowners/ "investors" to get billions of free $$$$$$$ in unearned capital gains but are like Scrooge when it comes to helping the poor.
We elect the "pack of weasels" we deserve Jimmy – it'll be NAct's turn again (too) soon. Hang in there Jude.
That's a great list Gezza, all good qualities but unfortunately the downside is just more Blah Blah Blah.
Adrian I agree, a huge fail on climate change, child poverty, housing crisis any many more. Big win on Banking and Property Investment.
I like JA as our PM but Labour need more action on all our crises and less Blah Blah Blah.
Thanks Gezza. I don't disagree with your list, all admirable qualities. 👍
Yes. I also liked your list of qualities needed for a good PM Gezza. You will have spent a lot of time putting it together so good on you.
I also agree with RBO that Jacinda Ardern reflects all those qualities. Of course she isn't perfect and she would be the first to agree. For example, I find her a bit waffly sometimes and have been known to tell her as much while watching her on TV. 😡
The largely misogynistic memes that her opponents have tried to pin on her… she's a lightweight who doesn't know what she is doing and, she has no control over her ministers etc., and they have no policies is so much hogwash. Unfortunately there are people whose memory cells are non existent and they fall for the nonsense.
“i am wondering, in our lifetime, do you think any other PM has had more of those qualities than our current one?”….really, are you serious?
Apart from Covid, Ardern has been the most ineffectual and pointless Labour PM in my life time, and that really is saying something..though to be fair she has been great for anyone who profits from banks, landowners, landlords and corporate monopoly owners and their shareholders…turns out she is great at talking, shit at actually doing anything…you only need to observe her (complete lack of) action on climate change to understand this plain fact.
Jacinda Ardern: "my generation's nuclear free moment"….get the fuck out of here!
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/08/jacinda-ardern-climate-change-is-my-generation-s-nuclear-free-moment.html
I listened to a podcast with Murray Bolton recently. Bolton, who is 73, said he had lived through some very good Labour governments (he named the Clark government specifically). His opinion – this is the worst government in his lifetime. Of any political makeup.
Gypsy, I have to confess I said Murray Who? So I looked him up and I am now wondering why I should pay his 'reckons', his opinions, any more weight than, say, my own?
I'm 72 and have seen some ten different governments of various lengths of tenure, and my opinion is different from this 'rich-lister businessman /entrepreneur.'
One of our downslides in critical thinking being shown more clearly recently is our credence in celebrities, as if being famous gives us more intellect or specialised knowledge, when all it does is feed our confirmation bias. I bet, Gypsy, you gave this citation to listen to Murray Who? because he believes what you believe.
I ask, rather, what specialised knowledge or intellect he brings that I should pay attention, and even defer to?
This is on my mind because I have had to run a critique as part of my position in an organisation of a racist, misogynist, extremist ranting letter which had been published with a long CV of the author of the rant. The purpose of the CV was to add weight to this man's opinions, when it did nothing to show any expertise or specialised knowledge.
Funnily enough, this ranter was also a CEO and company founder, like Murray Who? All it did for me was to confirm my incipient confirmation bias about the predilection of famous persons (especially CEOs and business founders) to pontificate about things they have but lay knowledge of. Lucky I'm not famous, eh?
Murray Bolton is a highly successful businessman. He has also taken on the power of the government in court and won, and is now helping other kiwi's stuck in the insane MIQ system get home. And you are?
Doesn't mean he is right, a good guy or has any other admirable traits though.
His reckons are as good as anyone else's and no more.
This uncritical admiration and views that people have something of worth to give the nation because they have got/acquired lots of money is a less than desirable trait.
It seems to be more prevalent (eg the people who admired John Key because he had worked in the money markets) and this is sad as NZ was, in times past, a country that it was said 'Jack's as good as his master.
Bolton was an admirer and supporter of the Clark government. It’s ok if you disagree with him. As far as I know that’s still allowed.
How does that qualify him to pronounce on what is/was the best or worst government in 60-70 years? To pronounce so certainly that we are directed to a podcast to be enlightened!
Who I am gives me no more right to pronounce upon the worth of 10+ governments more than any other reasonably well informed citizen.
That was my point. Murray Bolton from the evidence you have given, his age and business experience, and ability to pay for and win a court judgement is not an experienced politician, historian or political scientist whose measured judgement upon the relative worth of 60 years of NZ government can be trusted.
I do know that I would be looking at factors such as financial, health and employment statistics, I'd be looking at foreign policy, housing and poverty rates. I'd be researching quality of laws passed, quality of life and average income, environment and social issues, treatment of minority groups, the penal system and the use of state powers.
At least I'd be arguing from a position of some credible knowledge.
I've not heard the podcast. We were not given a reference. Does Mr Bolton traverse any or all of those areas for ten governments?
So it comes down to my other point. Why do we so accept the opinions of the famous, the celebrities, those successful in one aspect of life, be it business, acting or singing and promote them above those whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?
👍🏼 🏆
"How does that qualify him to pronounce on what is/was the best or worst government in 60-70 years?"
The same as it qualifies you to disagree.
"Why do we so accept the opinions of the famous, the celebrities, those successful in one aspect of life, be it business, acting or singing and promote them above those whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?"
Who are these people "whose knowledge and experience is directly applicable?" The politicians themselves? The opinion of successful people such as Bolton has value because they are the ones doing the hard yards to make NZ successful. They employ people, pay taxes. They lead organisations at the coalface of the very problems politicians create.
I haven't agreed or disagreed with you or Bolton about the issue of which was the worst or best government.
My issue was whether I should be persuaded by the reckons of a businessman, whether anyone should be persuaded by the reckons of such folk.
If he were to pronounce on what was the most business-friendly government, he might well have a worthy opinion.
But I offer the contention that good government is more than business friendliness.
Even though this government has been very well world ranked for business friendliness. Here's the 2020 ranking. First!
https://www.companiesoffice.govt.nz/insights-and-articles/nz-ranks-first-for-ease-of-doing-business-for-the-fourth-year/
"My issue was whether I should be persuaded by the reckons of a businessman, whether anyone should be persuaded by the reckons of such folk."
I don't think you should be. My view is we should take into account a range of opinions from people we respect, even if we don't always agree with them.
Yes I have come across these types of comments where outrageous things, way outside their expertise are said and then the press (often from a press release) states XXXX YYYY was president of the Waikikamoocau Sand Fertiliser Works and owns the local Ford dealership. Because of this somehow they feel their opinions seem to be worth more than Joseph Blow who has a degree in English Tudor History and is being house husband to three children, or Mrs Taitama who runs the Kohanga Reo, or any person in the street. The NZ cringe really.
The press really should be asking sometimes, and your expertise is…….
There was a radio station recently that got some OTT letters and handled them very well on air.
I usually say 'I give nothing to racism, sexism'. etc. This puzzles people sometimes and gives me the chance to explain my view that what they are saying may be racist, sexist etc.
Good luck with the critique. I find looking at the HR Act is good to start with. Pretty simple Act and stark about its impact.
Thanks, Shanreagh. I've just seen the letter resulting re the extremist ranting and it addresses the issues.
Joseph Blow sounds a bit like me, actually.
Dear oh dear!…you really know how to ..sugar coat things…Adrian.
My observation of the past 4 years is that there is too much deference to the Public Service and other advice, and not enough going with what Labour actually believes (think policy platforms etc). It may or may not work, but Little's rejection of the advice and instead opting to lead Cabinet in disestablishing all DHBs was a welcome departure from that in my view.
Add Chris Hipkins to that list. He has stopped the money basis of Education, and managed to keep things intact during 4 rounds of covid.
Kris Fafoi has changed the credit trap significantly, and has slowed the "cheap labour" supply. That has not endeared him to many.
Megan Woods has beavered away at housing, using her people skills to get the opposition onside.
Jacinda Ardern has demoted Ministers who failed their brief or did not live by the morality and honesty expected.
Gezza does not like Ardern and is carefully leaving out qualities we have noted throughout her tenure.
Relationships with other Leaders, recognised by her peers.
Crisis management. Both short and longterm. She has excelled in her managment of the following in the last 4 years.
Fruit fly incursion, Micoplasma Bovis, Kauri dieback, Myrtle Rust, an erruption and the sad outcome, Two terror attacks, Covid 19 and now Delta, plus dealing with the problems of 501s being sent here by Dutton. The other big issues are climate change inequality and being a good Treaty partner, Trade and controlling the huge influence of runaway tech giants and their Algorithms.
The current memes have changed from "It is Winston telling her what to do" to she is "Going to resign and take a better paying overseas position"
Her very few flashes of anger and disparagement born out of the silly comments from the opposition, can be understood. Generally she is patient and answers questions openly, saying she will find out/come back if needing more detail to answer. Her clear full answers where she heads off journalists' loaded questions is a lesson in control. People generally said they were amazed at her tolerance.
This is a Pandemic. It is not over, and we are finding how to live with it while keeping our little boat afloat. A great number of people voted for this Government. Some have wavered in the face of the necessary decisions to keep us safe, and others are threatened by the coming changes, so they may also have doubts. The facts show an amazing balancing act.
Qualities not on the original list.
Honest, openminded, people centered, thoughtful, strength of character able to rise to the occasion able to face problems squarely and plan a way forward able to hold the respect and loyalty of those she is leading.
She clearly loves NZ. I hope she is PM for as long as possible, as given all those extra problems things are bad but by overseas standards more than acceptable with big efforts being made to turn many problems round.
Just my not important opinion. Oh and a disclaimer. I am a Life Labour Party member, and I am proud of the Labour legacy.
Congratulations on the life membership, that's fantastic recognition. I'm also a Labour Party member (VFL) and volunteer (did 5 years as campaign and LEC treasurer) but not at that level!
Hipkins' work on the Education System is an excellent example of a minister pushing past the public service advice, and possible 3 Waters could be the next big example of that. And that was a good reminder that good work has been done and continues, and it can be a long slog on intractable issues. Perhaps my frustration is that some issues have been beyond the political will of the voters rather than cabinet, like redesigning the tax system.
Gezza does not like Ardern and is carefully leaving out qualities we have noted throughout her tenure.
Neither of those assertions is true, Patricia. Another epic fail mind-reader. I do not pretend to know what you think or how you think. Please do not think you can do that with me. You can’t. You are not me. You do not see thru my eyes.
I do not adore Ardern, like some do, & see some faults or shortcomings. It is incorrect – in fact it’s false – to say I do not like her & imply that is my entire assessment.
I have NOT carefully left out qualities you think she has that should be in the list. False again.
Imo, Ardern has many of the qualities I came up with. My mission was not to write them around any particular PM, but to come with my ideal list, from my own perspective. Then see who seemed to meet all or most of them.
Adrian, how long has that "lifetime" been?
Those qualities are all mostly “transferable”. That skill set could almost be used in an authoritarian administration or…cough…a neo liberal state like New Zealand with a monetarist consensus among main parties. You know–free as possible in and out flow of capital, deregulation, managerialist culture, penetration of public infrastructure by private capital…that kind of thing.
What is missing is a requirement for a class left political understanding, analysis and action plan.
Be very happy to see your attempt to set out briefly how that would look.
I don’t see my list as in any way neo liberal. Applies just as well to a capable left wing leader, imo.
Certainly Gezza. Just from my perspective who needs highly efficient, even likeable leaders, that end up reinforcing capitalist class power via the neo liberal state and legislation?
It is time for a referendum on monetarism–it has never been put to the vote–not when Roger slipped it in, and Ruth aggressively continued TINA–because for the main parties structural neo liberalism is the default cultural and legislative setting via Reserve Bank Act, State Sector Act etc.
"It is time for a referendum on monetarism"
To have a referendum you have to be able to ask a clear question that can, normally, be answered with a YES or a NO. It is possible to have more than two answers but they still have to be in a simple form. ie I choose A or I choose B or I choose C.
What on earth is you question going to be?
I've gone right off Jacinda myself….first Ireland and now the French ,beating the AB's…that was the last…straw.
Yeah it is hard to keep opinions on an even keel when these sorts of things are allowed to happen. Must be the Guvmint's fault some where some how
Hi Gezza
Are all these qualities of equal value or are they different.
For example, to me, John Key scores very highly in the strong category whereas Jacinda Ardern doesn't however Jacinda scores highly on the clear vision but John does not
So do you have a ranking for what qualities are higher or lower or what qualities you're willing to 'let go' if the other qualities are there
Also, in your opinion, how would Bill English gone as leader if he'd had a proper go of it
How on earth did English not have a 'proper go' at it?
His fav line was 'there is no silver bullet'…maintained the Key legacy….'kick the can…down the road=let someone else …deal with it.
He was PM for less than a year (from memory) and a great deal of that was electioneering
Whatabout his other 'go' at it!
In October 2001, English replaced Jenny Shipley as the leader of the National Party (and consequently as Leader of the Opposition). He led the party to its worst defeat at the 2002 general election, and as a consequence, in October 2003 he was replaced as leader by Don Brash.'
I'm talking about being PM
Twice leader of National two time looser.No Charisma .the Boag constrictor doubling down.
Key was able to hold an audience English made them fall a sleep.
fix email address
'Honest John' was a strong proponent of Dirty Politics, as was and is the current 'leader' of the opposition. Jamie-Lee Ross, Rodger 'Merv' Bridge, Sandra Goudie, Matt King, Michelle Boag, Hamish Walker, Michael Woodhouse, Andrew Falloon, Todd Barclay, Nick Smith, etc. etc. – all part of Key's 'legacy'. Just imagine – thank-you Peters!
As leader of the Nats for 3 years, including 10 months as PM, English did have "a proper go of it"; personally I think English, Bridges, Muller and Kaye would all be doing a better job of leading the Nats than the incumbent, but that's not saying much, is it?
I listed them in no particular order orher than when they popped into my head & I wrote them down, Pucky.
I haven’t considered weighting them, or assigning them a priority, because I see them as a desirable set & see no useful purpose in trying to assign one quality as of more value than another when the caucus, & the national situations, can change at each eiection & throw any such attempt up in the air.
I think the language around the idea of 'leadership' has become so debased through overuse, that no useful discussion of the topic is possible.
I was not happy how Lees – Galloway left. Not sure if there was more to the situation. Being demoted as a minister would have been enough.
Aussie cricketers. Anyone surprised?
Former Australian cricket captain Tim Paine drops bomb about coach in explosive tell-all – NZ Herald
Not at all.
I had a wry smile when some Australian cricket official said Paines behaviour did not meet the standards expected of Australian cricket.
Yes I was going to say his behaviour seems to fit exactly what we now expect from them!
Nice 10 minute segment on Gardening Australia about John Clarke and a conservation project he was involved with in his later years.
(Starts @ 43:37)
very cool.
"New Zealand will always be his spiritual home" 💚
Thanks, 'twas a nice interlude in my work day
For those following the other day, Millsy has retracted his comment about Greenwald wanting Trump back in. He's now released from the ban list.
. https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20-11-2021/#comment-1835088
If you want to make claims about people (commenters, public figures, people in the news), then please back up. You can express opinions but once it crosses into details about people or events etc, you have to make the argument and support it with evidence.
From the Policy,
The reason for that is to keep the debate robust. When people have links to understand a comment in context, the debate improves. Likewise when people explain their thinking.
Occasional educational short bans are likely from me over the next few months as I don’t want to be spending my time chasing people up on this. If you find your comments aren’t appearing, check the Replies tab to see if one of the mods has replied to you. If you can’t see the Replies tab, ask for help.
Oh well, a legion of The Standard readers can delete their “Free Millsy” posts then.
C'mon … Tat Loo was far better comedic value than Millsy.
I miss the early cv, not so much the later version.
And me old mate Draco, where’s draco.
yeah, haven't seen Draco for ages. Did he get a ban?
I miss marty too.
Yeh i miss marty. I think he just got pissed off with the place. Or did he get a ban?
I was wondering that too, I know he had some health issues so that was my concern about his absence.
Radio silence from DTB for a few months now. Hope he's OK
CV has gone off on a self imposed exile. Fallen a long way from a former Labour party candidate, into the Trump/Antivax rabbit hole. Sad to see a capable mind fall prey to nihilism
Hope he makes a full recovery
Sorry to hear that CV has fallen down the Trump/Antivax rabbit hole. It was an inevitable trajectory.
Start believing one pro fascist far right narrative and it is only a small step to the next one, and the next after that.
I too was once a big admirer of CV and regarded him as a fellow lefty, until that is, he fell for the regime change conspiracy theory in Syria.
It was all down hill from there.
I would call Tat Loo part of the 'Post Left' now. Kinda in the same vein as Tim Pool, Michael Tracey, Jesse Singal, Aimee Terese etc and so on.
Mind you, he has been always like this. I think there is an article floating round from 2004 by him that was pretty much anti-vaccination.
Here is the article, incase anyone wants to know,.
\https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/itat-looi-to-trust-or-not-to-trust-the-basic-question/5BSDLC62LNKNKOFZVW4PKZ5ZAQ/
lol. Lonely PR.
Pity Millsy doesn't retract this load of bile as well
.https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-20-11-2021/#comment-1835076
hard to make sense of that tbh. Was it insulting PR that was the problem, or the description of Rittenhouse?
I don't mind people insulting me as long as I can insult them back
that doesn't usually work out so well though.
Here was me thinking he was describing himself 🙃
so the grandswill organised protests got less vehicles going through our cities than a bunch of boy racers on a casual night out . thoughts on how huge the mother of all protests wasnt?
Yep , the numbers were embarrassingly low, no matter how creative the camera angles got.
.
Had the same thought about camera angles.
my favourite "camera angles" case was Prebble doing a live piece to camera for ACT (yes, it was that long ago). It was in Hagley Park, for breakfast tv ISTR.
Anyway, Prebble was in front, and behind him were half a dozen or so supporters with a huge number of balloons. Sure enough, a slight gust of wind momentarily parted the balloons and through the crack there was nobody for at least a hundred yards, save one person in the distance looking vaguely towards the camera as their dog sniffed around a tree.
That was ACT's massive rally in Hagley Park, lol
Hope this doesn't cause inadvertant offence to anyone, but I spotted it in my feed on a very rare visit to my Farcebook page last night & I thought it was funny….
I'm reluctant to admit it, but perhaps Jordan Peterson was right about compelled speech and hate speech.
Women Are Human opinion article:
Gender Critical Feminism Soon May Be Criminalized in Canada
If he wasn't then, current law change proposals may change that.
Jordan Peterson is a good man.
He was never against trans people, it was the changing of the wording of the laws he was against.
From my perspective, he represents Dworkin's quote on men who view women as private property. I concede he seems to have been prescient on this topic.
(Am I allowed to suggest his approach and notoriety may have contributed to the adversarial positioning on this topic? No? Damn…)
So, what did you think of the article?
'(Am I allowed to suggest his approach and notoriety may have contributed to the adversarial positioning on this topic? No? Damn…)'
No doubt.
I haven't read it yet, I'm still dealing with idiots over the Kyle Rittenhouse trail
It confused me. I still can't get my head around things like this (I probably never will)
Then it just made me sad, not sad like going to the cupboard and going to grab a biscuit then remembering you're on a diet sad, but sad as in this is how the worlds of 1984 or The Handmaids Tale begin.
Your bang on there PR.
As for Jordon Peterson…..I am glad expresses the opinions he does (mostly). A lot of it I don't agree with it, some I do.
Watched him interviewed by a feminist Helen (sorry forgotten her name) journalist.
I think its good he raises stuff about men and their contribution and service and how its men who die in wars, who CS more and who are murdered more.
But I think neither of them stressed how female biology has disadvantaged us. We are phyically weaker and we have time out for child birth and mothering (I know things are changing with this, but that is why women have more rights now).
Also most men are wired to pursue sex with females (biologically for survival of the species) but within this men have viewed women as sex objects for their gratification. Obviously this isn't the whole picture. But an importatnt one that contributes to inequality in the sexes.
'Also most men are wired to pursue sex with females (biologically for survival of the species) but within this men have viewed women as sex objects for their gratification. Obviously this isn't the whole picture. But an importatnt one that contributes to inequality in the sexes.'
– Yeah I get this
as intended.
Hi Molly, I came across this excerpt from a longer video. In it Africa Brooke says how she had decided what to think about Peterson, and that gets 'unpacked'.
I understand JP can get on people's nerves. I think this clip is worthwhile and gets very touching near the end when JP reveals the impact 'the haters' had on him.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v8v7ueICWuU
Thanks, gsays. Will have a look after getting through the webinar below.
Did you have a look at the article?
Yes, I have read the article. Thanks.
Since my awareness of this issue (BDMRR) was raised by y'all here on TS I have been reading, learning and getting informed.
I am frustratingly not going to engage in the discussion as there are quite a few threads intertwined and I much rather korero in the flesh where subtleties can be expressed. I can see integrity on both sides of the issue but get turned off when debate goes to the extreme end to make a point. Most of the extremities come from overseas.
Also, as McFlock demonstrates below, chatter gets shut down quick or bogged down in petty point scoring.
It's not like Ta-Nehisi Coates is a run of the mill "hater". If "one of the foremost black intellectuals" is calling you out on something, best have a wee think.
He may be "one of the foremost black intellectuals" but hes certainly not a good comic book writer, this guy on the other hand is, and before you put on your big boy pants, Just Some Guy is black and Bisexual (since labels seem important to you), the first youtube clip is from 2018 just to let you know
Dunno about any of that, already watched one damned video of not much today, surprised I bothered with that.
The point I made was that if someone one describes as being a foremost intellectual satirises one's material (and more specifically how one's core audience recieves it), then some self reflection is in order. Peterson obviously respects Coates. Possibly should reflect upon the criticism, then.
Just saying his comics are crap
I'll bear that in mind.
Ironically, I have found Petterson to be one of the better, deeper, braver thinkers I have come across.
Most deep thinkers would read more than one pamphlet co-authored by marx before participating in a public debate about capitalism vs marxism.
still fighting the lost battles of centuries ago?
The sad fact is there hasn't been an intellectual argument capable of supporting Marxism since Marx; and his own arguments have been disproved worldwide ever since his were made.
Yet Jordan Peterson is the one who is uneducated about him……
Quite plainly, he was.
The point was that a supposedly deep thinker turned up to a debate using only a cursory reading of the communist manifesto to discuss marxism in general.
I'm not defending Marx, Žižek did that. Quite competently. Maybe he'd have had a more difficult task if his opponent had done his homework and actually knew the subject area at hand.
The usual transparent tactic when anyone points out marxism's manifest, catastrophic failures is to pretend 'oh that wasn't real communism'.
Peterson responds that when someone says that, what they're really claiming is 'that if I was in charge of the revolution, it would have all turned out differently'.
Which of course is nothing but a monumental conceit.
same with…'crony capitalism'…oh that's not real..Capitalism…!
You haven't been paying attention.
Capitalism is not complicated – it requires no appeal to an arcane theory that can only be understood by the high priests of the cult. It's a rather simple set of economic tools and ideas relating to business formalism, rule of law and markets. Neloliberalism on the other hand was the stupid theory that these useful tools would work if you applied them to everything.
Explain to us how financial derivatives work.
You also seem to be conflating markets with capitalism.
@arkie
Search engines are your friend.
No appeals to high priests and arcane theory huh? lol
Marx & Engels at the click of a button for those who are interested in some reading.
OK so in short words you might understand – derivatives are a risk mitigation tool. Within limits they work very well, outside of those limits they don't.
Like say double entry book-keeping, the technical details take a bit of learning, but the basic idea is simple enough to understand. Unless of course you're determined not to.
Otherwise I see you've completely failed to address the substance of my comment and wandered off down a path of your own bewilderment.
There’s no need to be so unpleasant surely, this is not complicated stuff!
Double-entry bookkeeping also predates capitalism, how interesting!
It’s important to have an understanding of that which you are criticising, that’s why I also posted a link to Marx’s bibliography.
But in the end, I guess it all depends on how determined you are, either way.
Redlogix is very determined to be fucking obtuse and obnoxiously argumentative. He wears us down, but without convincing.
Marxist apologists get the same treatment from me as do libertarians and fascists. That’s not persuasion I’m doing here – it’s scorn.
@ arkie and In Vino, you might find some ideas of retired clinical psychologist Daniel helpful in regard to understanding scorn – I did.
@ DMK
Boundaries. Marxism takes the good idea that the extremes of wealth and poverty should be moderated – and goes too far by demanding equal outcomes. Wherever and whenever this boundary is stepped over the actual result has been catastrophe.
You wouldn't suggest a 'reasoned discussion' with the ChCh mass murderer – and he only killed 51 people. Why would I engage with an ideology that directly, openly requires the violent eradication of entire classes of 'oppressors'?
You seem to be confirming that Communism and Capitalism,don't exist in any pure form.
I agree.
As for ' Why would I engage with an ideology that directly, openly requires the violent eradication of entire classes of 'oppressors'?
That bogeyman Communism is subjected to 'eradication' ,it is anathema to Capitalist construct.
Cuba is a good study.
Cuba cannot be allowed to thrive,in case it encourages other countries to adopt its ideology.
After 60 years of embargo and surviving it is now in crisis.
Trump enforced financial restrictions on Cuba.
Remittances from the U.S ,a large source of finance were halted.
Without historical Venezuelan and Soviet assistance, the screaming economy' is near…strangulation.
Capitalism still relies on …debt slavery….that's the…reality.
Newsflash: Stalin died a long, long time ago. Capitalism is busy committing global ecocide, right now.
Stalin died a long, long time ago.
And marxism should have been buried with him.
As for Hedges – long on the alarmism that will get him clicks, short on actual solutions.
@Blazer
Our definitions are not aligned which makes a conversation unproductive. I outlined my working definitions here.
Capitalism, conservatism and socialism normally co-exist in a balance in all modern societies. Some tilt more toward one pole than the other. However:
When the idea of liberal capitalism – which is essentially the actions of the individual within a market context – is taken too far you get neo-liberalism or libertarianism.
When the idea of conservatism – which is essentially about making what is known and trusted work in a stable fashion – is taken too far you get fascism, race purity and tyranny.
When the idea of socialism – which is about moderating the extremes of wealth and poverty, and protecting the most vulnerable – is taken too far into imposing equal outcomes you get communism and all the cultist woke variations it’s morphed into.
Using these rough definitions, ordinary conservatism, capitalism and socialism are within the bounds of acceptable political discourse. The others are demonstrably worthless ideologies.
You would be taken seriously if you actually knew what Communism is, or read what Marx really wrote. Instead of mindlessly repeating the US idea, that Communists are any Government they don't like.
Hint. A State that has a Dictatorship, and Nomenclatura., is by definition, not Communist.
Any more than another Dictatorship that claimed to be Socialist, while murdering millions, was Socialist.
Even more funny. When it is noted that "Communist" China pulled millions out of poverty more recently. Your fellow parrots start saying. "China is Capitalist, not Communist".
I am a supporter of a Democratic mixed economy. But note that Marx was largely correct. Though much of his analysis was the product of his time, it is still one of the best descriptions of Capitalisms working. We are seeing the results of the Marxist theory "diminishing rate of return on capital” in the developed countries now. It is only revolution or the threat of revelation that removes the Kleptocracy. Such as the UK after WW2. Where they started looking after returning soldiers and workers for fear of becoming Russia.
Not Marx's wishes. A description of reality.
Revolutions tend to end up with the most violent anti democratic and ruthless arseholes on top, which is why they I certainly am against them. Some circumstances, such as Batista’s Cuba, Czarist Russia, pre revolution France,, for example, make life so bad for so many that it becomes inivitable.
The US one is a good example. Resulting in a Constitution of "checks and balances" which ensure that "The Masses" will never have Democratic power over the "elite". Little different from Soviet Russia or China. Except the USA does propaganda, fooling the populace, better. As your repeating it proves.
You would be taken seriously if you actually knew what Communism is, or read what Marx really wrote.
You didn't need to read the ChCh's mass murderer's 'manifesto' to know it was a worthless pile of shit. So why the fuck would anyone take Marx's driveling nonsense seriously>
Surely you jest!
Marx is a legend…
' Marx increasingly became preoccupied with an attempt to understand the contemporary capitalist mode of production, as driven by a remorseless pursuit of profit, whose origins are found in the extraction of surplus value from the exploited proletariat. The precise role of morality and moral criticism in Marx’s critique of contemporary capitalist society is much discussed, and there is no settled scholarly consensus on these issues. His understanding of morality may be related to his account of ideology, and his reflection on the extent to which certain widely-shared misunderstandings might help explain the stability of class-divided societies'- excerpt Stanford Eof Philosophy
One would assume because they aren't so determined to remain ignorant or make such outlandish false equivalences.
Marx is a legend…
So was Freud.
@arkie
Yes I do that Aussie cunt an injustice – he only managed 51 dead. Marx and Engels however openly justified and advocated for the eradication of entire classes of people.
You can back up that claim with a citation of Marx & Engels doing such a thing?
On one hand you claim I know nothing about marxism, and then demand I educate you about it!
Use a search engine.
Can't find a citation to back up your claim. Eh. Redlogix? Because, as we know, there isn't one.
Pontificating on "what Marx said" without actually bothering to find out what he really said, when it has shaped so much thought on the "Political economy" including influencing a whole lot of Economists, including the ones that disagreed with him, such as Milton Freidman, shows a refusal to inform yourself.
Like commenting on Western philosophy while ignoring the bible.
Commenting on modern economics while ignoring Marx, is failing to educate yourself.
How many people have been murdered in the name of Jesus Christ, who, if he really existed, only advocated for violently overturning money lenders tables?
Because, as we know, there isn't one.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot would all beg to differ.
On this site we do not accept: making assertions that you are unable to substantiate with some proof.
I am not asking you to educate me.
Marx supported a “Democracy of the Proleteriat”.
Not something Stalin, Mao, or Pol Pot, were noted for.
Bought on by “class struggle”. Not necessarily violent. Mentions Trade Unions and other usually non violent organisations as a means.
A Utopian ideal to my mind, but close to the ideals the USA pretends to value.
Marx was being descriptive, not prescriptive.
Marx in his final and culminating paragraph of the The Communist Manifesto stated:
The ambiguity of the word 'forcible' was not in question for the three of Marx's most prominent followers who all engaged in violent revolutions aimed at eradicating those they declared to be the 'oppressor' class.
Weasel all you like – the stack of bodies still buried every metre or so under the Highway of Bones is proof enough for any sane person.
Like the US revolution, eh?
If you had been a serf or factory worker in Czarist Russia. I think you would have been rather keen on “removing the oppressor”.
Unfortunately replaced with another. Would you have supported anyone who “violently removed” Stalin?
Which sort of confirms what Marx said about the History of class struggle.
We will forget about the fact that the US “highway of bones” must be getting in numbers close to Stalin by now. But they are mostly Brown people, so, who cares.
So Marx and Engels didn't openly justify and advocate for the eradication of entire classes of people. Who'd've thunk it!
Some extra reading for those who are interested: Status of Violence in Marx's Theory of Revolution
Your denial of the fucking obvious is contemptible. Unlike you I did get to travel over that grim Highway I mentioned above – on the way to a gold processing project in the region. You on the other hand cannot even bring yourself to name it.
The last para of the paramount document in all of marxist literature calls for a forcible overthrow of the social order – an instruction carried out to the fucking letter by actual marxist revolutionaries and you pretend it has another meaning.
You demanded I provide a cite and I did.
Your conflation of the actions of 20th century dictators with the readily accessible writings of 19th century political activists is not only disingenuous but also inaccurate, as you yourself have demonstrated.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/26/communists-capitalism-stalinism-economic-model
the paramount document in all of marxist literature
No that would be Capital, the communist manifesto is a political pamphlet.
Capitalism was built on the bodies of millions from the very start. From the late 17th century onwards, the transatlantic slave trade became a pillar of emergent capitalism.
Spare me the tedious whaddaboudism.
Slavery is an ancient almost universal feature of most known historic societies – pre-dating capitalism by millenia. For a relatively short period slavery and an emerging capitalism overlapped, but very quickly capitalist industrialisation led to the direct end of chattel slavery. (A process incidentally led largely by the same class of 'exploiting' Europeans Owen Jones manages to completely ignore.)
If not for this capitalism you hate so much, slavery would be as commonplace and endemic as ever. Statistically you wouldn't even be alive and able to type out your complaints about it here.
Capitalism is a great system … for the capitalists. Pretty shit for the workers, the environment, wildlife, democracy, or ethics. IMNSHO is it a spiritual force of evil
https://twitter.com/ianpaulwright/status/1452985473580904448?s=20
Tedious whataboutism, me? lol
very quickly capitalist industrialisation led to the direct end of chattel slavery.
From your provided link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade
How generous of those European nations to abolish slavery after benefitting from it for 400 years.
I don’t hate capitalism, where did I make that claim? Why do you feel the need to fabricate the words of others?
@arkie
Slavery in the 21st Century. OK so lets look at this – because clearly you didn't. Well bugger me there right at the top, a map showing where it remains most prevalent. All arguably the last places on earth you'd hold up as liberal democratic, developed 'rule of law', capitalist style nations.
How generous of those European nations to abolish slavery after benefitting from it for 400 years.
More denial. Virtually every major historic society featured slavery due to their lack of industrialisation. The only time and places where slavery has been made both permanently illegal and largely abolished have been those featuring a capitalist industrialisation – which really started to dominate from the early to mid 1800’s.
@roblogic
Anything from Twitter = Automatic Fail
So slavery didn’t end, as you claimed, it is still ongoing despite the law. In a globalised economy those on the top still benefit from it no matter where it occurs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_21st_century
but the number of people currently enslaved around the world is far greater than the number of slaves during the historical Atlantic slave trade.
A typical piece of intellectual dishonesty that has to erase context to even look faintly plausible.
For a start the human population has increased roughly ten-fold in that period. Failing to correct for that alone makes it a meaningless comparison. To make matters worse it compares one subset of slavery, the trans-Atlantic trade, with the total global trade today.
For a second – those places where it remains most prevalent are the least developed places on earth. Nothing much of any 'benefit' comes from these places that could not be done more efficiently and profitably without slavery.
And while this residual slavery is of course deplorable – at maybe 40m people and maybe $150b of revenue it represents a diminishing and very minor fraction of the total global economy.
Given that chattel slavery is virtually non-existent in all the developed, industrialised, capitalist nations that feature a reliable rule of law and property rights – the obvious way to fully and finally eradicate slavery is to extend these conditions everywhere.
"Anything from Twitter = Automatic Fail"
lol, you're missing out mate. 😛
I agree with Marx's view of capital as an "egregore"; a disembodied entity with its own demonic life force; which describes the modern multinational corporation such as BlackRock perfectly. This is a popular essay on the topic:
Marx on Capital as a Real God – 𝗗𝗔𝗥𝗞 𝗠𝗔𝗥𝗫𝗜𝗦𝗠 (wordpress.com)
Tangential: A freaky cyberpunk short story in the vein of "Snow Crash":
The Gig Economy – Zero HP Lovecraft (wordpress.com)
The closest I've seen anything truly demonic was visiting Perm 36 in 2001.
RL. Are you really trying to argue that Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin only existed because Marx?
All the hundreds of other bloody despots in history. Many before Marx was even born. Robespierre, Pinochet, Hitler, the Shah, Stroessner, Suharto, Videla. The many that came out on top after revolutions. All due to Marx?
Not the circumstances of the time?
Are you really trying to argue that Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin only existed because Marx?
They absolutely relied on marxism as their justification. All monsters need an ideology to give cover to their madness – and classical marxism is certainly not the only one they turn to.
And as I've carefully outlined, but everyone ignores, ideology is what you get when you take a good idea in isolation, like fairness, purity, or freedom and make it into a totalising solution that will deliver some future utopia. Which is promised to be so wonderful that any amount of destruction and horror is justified to achieve it.
Which is essentially what all of the tyrants you have named share in common.
Slowly getting to the point, but resisting at every turn.
That it is not the utopian ideology that is the problem.
It is the wannabee tyrant that uses it as an excuse.
Christianity was used as a reason for tyranny, for centuries. Causing more deaths than any other "ideology".
Now we have US, exceptionalism.
It is the wannabee tyrant that uses it as an excuse.
In the case of marxism the tyranny is baked in. Because the goal is equality of outcome but all humans are different – the revolution must impose it's new social order. The oppressor class must be overthrown and replaced with the worker class – who will magically deliver the promised utopia. (Exactly how remains mostly unexamined.)
Authoritarian personalities are deeply drawn to this prospect, they imagine they will be the ones doing the 'redistributing'. All the petty tyrants – and they lurk everywhere – come out of the woodwork like the zombies in World War Z to inflict their revenge for every slight and hurt they've carefully nurtured.
Those who have lived through communism say that it was not so much the brutality of the state they feared – because they expected that – but that no-one not even their family, could be trusted not to betray them. As a result everyone spoke in lies all the time.
.
LOL … more like one of the High Priests of the Critical Race Theory Religious Cult of which you are a particularly ambitious & dogmatic local cheerleader.
Somewhat akin to a Church of Scientology enforcer.
That wasn't my description. It was Peterson's.
But don't let that stop you. Please, tell me more about how much I have written here about Critical Race Theory. If I'm a prominent cheerleader of it, please provide the links.
Funnily enough, my own searches haven't brought up anything about me "cheerleading" CRT, but a post by advantage suggests that not only is the chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff a woke liberal who sees uses for CRT in his work, but he seems to have read more Marx than Jordan Peterson. At least that dude does his homework.
My own contribution to that discussion: pretty much just a lol.
I guess my thetans were weak that day, or whatever.
I got about half way through and gave up. It doesn't really explain the Bills and how they are likely to be interpreted and acted upon.
You have to go to the annotated links for that detail, but it is there..
eg. No. 3 – Combatting hate speech and hate crimes: Proposed legislative changes to the Canadian Human Rights Act and the Criminal Code – Canadian Govt site.
..and it is an opinion piece.
yeah, I don't even have my head around the NZ legislation, not going to deep dive on the Canadian's, so left not much the wiser. She might be right, or she might be over egging it. It's a problem, including in NZ, that we don't have many straightforward explanations of legislation (not just in this area).
On the subject of systemic racism in medicine. This was mentioned on Morning Report. That pulse oximeters have an inbuilt bias. The readings for those with non white skin aren’t as accurate.
“Pulse oximetry devices used for warning of low blood oxygenation in covid-19 and other diseases may be missing three times as many cases of occult hypoxaemia in black patients as in white, says a study report published in the New England Journal of Medicine.1
Researchers looked at over 48 000 pulse oximetry readings in 8675 US white patients and 1326 US black patients, comparing them with more accurate arterial oxygen saturation measures taken almost contemporaneously.
Among white patients whose pulse oximetry readings were 92-96%, the proportion who actually had arterial oxygen saturation below 88% was 3.6% (95% confidence interval 2.5% to 4.6%). But among black patients the proportion actually below that figure was 11.4% (7.6% to 15.2%).
“Our results suggest that reliance on pulse oximetry to triage patients and adjust supplemental oxygen levels may place black patients at increased risk for hypoxaemia,” noted the study authors, from the University of Michigan Medical School. The study is the latest of many to find that current assumptions and algorithms, often derived from heavily white patient populations, may work against black patients.2”
When products are developed by predominantly white folks, they fail to take colour into account. The same has been found with facial recognition software.
No easy fix, unless tertiary institutions take affirmative action more seriously.
So if the doctors don't have an unconscious bias based on ethnicity, the equipment does.
https://www.apsf.org/article/apsf-statement-on-pulse-oximetry-and-skin-tone/
"women like me"
How about "men like me", who mimic women outwardly and to different degrees of success, who have an innate feeling of womanhood without any of the experience of being female.Who feel more comfortable in life presenting as a woman , looking like a woman ,behaving as if they were a woman
Women they are not, unless we are to tear down our understanding of reproduction of mammalian species, based on binary sex.And totally demolish the language that has evolved around that
Anyone keen to start degendering French and Spanish etc?
The language distortion aids in the derailing of transparency and open discussion.
It has real world impacts, often negative for women as a class.
We are barely human in the eyes of some. And this movement is a MRA movement for middle class white male to assert their dominance over NON Males and bros will be supporting it. In the end, bros will not suffer from this, only non bros. And thus it was ever since.
I have long maintained the idea that men will never be allies of women. And this movement demonstrates it so nicely.
We are no longer a class. We are something that anyone can be and no one can define.
"men will never be the allies of women"
That's a sad perspective. Most men love the women and girls in their lives, and would protect them ahead of their own life. Don't focus on the criminals when most guys are quietly working to make the world better.
I am not focusing on any man in particular.
But the 'class' of men that is the other 50% of the worlds population is not a womens friend. Not even to their 'own' women such as 'their' wife or 'their' child.
Please point where 'guys' are working quietly to make things better for women by allowing men into female prisons, female shelters, female rape crisis centres, female changing rooms, female toilets, female swimming hours, female sports, female awards, female hospital wards and oh allowing male lesbians to demand women suck their lady dicks in the name of lesbianism.
I can't wait to see that, cause all of these things are being pushed through not by criminals but by lawmakers, lawyers, opinion makers, journalists, and the likes. Unless you are calling these people criminals and i am just missing the 'joke' in all of that.
I think you'll find that half of the misguided activists pushing these idiotic reforms are idealistic millennial women with their heads in the clouds
You will find that if you look long enough at the Labour Party – the one which is currently in a single majority government – that it is not a bunch of idealistic millennial women with their heads in the clouds – but full of men and women being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars each to make this into law, and they are cynically enough to push that into law, knowing full well that non of that will ever really affect them.
You will find that if you look long enough – and you have all the submissions to watch for the spectacle of rude manners, the condescending bullthittery that came courtesy of the idealistic middle aged women of the Labour and Green Party – that Mme Kere Kere, Mme Wall, Mme Russel et al, – are really pushing hard for this to become law.
You will find that if you look long enough, that it is our lawmaker in government who push that shit on women – no debate and all – and non of the men in parliament are saying a single word but then maybe they are cowards. Who knows.
You will find that if you look long enough, that maybe it is time for the silent blokes who love 'their women' and 'their mothers' and 'their daughters' to maybe just maybe start speaking up on behalf of 'their' women.
And if they can't do it for the women, do it for the safeguarding of girls.
You will find that if you look long enough, that maybe it is time for the silent blokes who love ‘their women’ and ‘their mothers’ and ‘their daughters’ to maybe just maybe start speaking up on behalf of ‘their’ women.
The problem with this solution is that two generations of men who have done so have been shouted down by women for having the temerity to “think they can speak on women’s behalf”.
And even the “tone’ of that sentence I quote, and the negative, sarcastic-seeming framing of the word “their” (apparently implying men still think they own women in this country, which is nonsense) makes men want to back out & leave it to the girls & women to fight their own battles. Which is precisely what we have been told to do over & over again by misandrist females for several decades now.
Change your language, & your approach, if you want help from men. And don’t ask “men” to change other people they can’t, any more than you can.
Newsflash: Men are not all the exact same creature, always collectively perceiving & acting in their own common group interest. That thinking is shite.
We are unique all individuals & how we relate to the women in our lives is unique & individual too. The biggest influence on who I am, how I relate to people, & how I perceive things was my mother, not my father. Though I loved them both equally, nature & nurture has made me more like mum than dad in personality. And I’m comfortable with that – because I think it makes me a nicer MAN.
🙄 * We are all unique individuals…
well then, I won't expect YOU to help women – who may or may not be 'yours', as i won't change my language. But then, i don't expect men to help. I don't expect men to be allies of anyone who is not a man. I simply expect men to stand by and do nothing. As usual.
But thanks for stating it so clearly.
@ Sabine
But then, i don’t expect men to help. I don’t expect men to be allies of anyone who is not a man. I simply expect men to stand by and do nothing. As usual.
I help women all the time. I also help men. Anyone who asks for my help generally gets it, if I can actually help. That’s how I was brought up.
I don’t know your full story, but some of your recent comments that I have read – and your pseudonym – point to a harrowing background, & who knows maybe even PTSD. Apparently your experience has prejudiced you against men in general.
I am sorry if that is so, but don’t expect to get away with frequently lambasting men in general because of your distorted perception of what “men” are like. You are not a man & you don’t know what you are talking about. Talking only to others who feel the same way about men will never open your eyes to what most men are really like.
And lambasting & hectoring “men” will just see you mentally categorised as a man-hater & ignored because of it, imo.
@Gezza, well said. I gave up earlier because my motives were impugned. It seems that our interlocutor is projecting anger at the wrong targets.
"we are all unique individuals"
"I'm not"
https://youtu.be/KHbzSif78qQ
Happening now.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2021/11/18/french-dictionary-adds-gender-neutral-pronoun-causes-controversy/8671553002/
What starts off as politeness and empathy (addressing transwomen as if they were in fact truly women ) can end being embedded in policy and law, to the detriment of women
Jane Clare Jones does a good satire here on your point:
The Annals of the Terf Wars
(Doesn't change anything, but may raise a wry smile.)
she stopped in 2018, she needs updating.
this one fits too. https://www.feministcurrent.com/2016/10/04/this-is-how-they-broke-our-grandmothers/
And no that one ain't funny, but then history is never really funny when one is part of the losing 'class'. Right?
Thanks. Sabine.
Good article, and good links.
Still exploring the links, but will share one of the closing sentences:
"oppression is not a misunderstanding"
Yeah had this discussion one with some women who were lamenting their negotiation skills and deciding that they had to get better at it.
They discovered that all the men who started with them started on significantly higher salaries than they did. They had decided it was their own fault – most were more skilled and experienced than the men.
I pointed out that the person who was responsible for employing them was the only person who knew all the salaries he was starting people on and that he had made conscious decisions about each and everyone including the context of gender and the obvious disparity. These were conscious decisions to pay all the men more. The only person who could have fixed it at the time was that person.
Therein lies most of the problem – if the people who could fix it wanted to do so they don't need committees, investigations, protests, unions, legislation, etc to do so. They just need to exercise the power they already have. That they choose not to is deliberate.
+1
Just putting this out there:
JP satire — I enjoyed it anyway
https://youtu.be/2fcWGB-RABM
He nailed the voice
Very long (>3hr) webinar on ROGD (Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria).
Stella O’Malley, psychotherapist & author — ‘How Clinicians Work with ROGD’
Jude, a parent campaigner — ‘From Theory to Reality: When ROGD Hits Your Family’
Dr David Bell, Former Consultant Psychiatrist, Ex-Governor at Tavistock & Portman NHS Trust — ‘First Do No Harm’
Dr Lisa Littman, Public Health Researcher — ‘Psychosocial Factors & Gender Dysphoria’
Questions from the audience.
Timestamps for each on the Youtube site.
Thanks again Molly and for all who post on this.
One third of NZ voters think the PM is performing badly. That's after a drop in her approval rating.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/newshub-reid-research-poll-growing-number-of-voters-believe-jacinda-ardern-performing-badly.html
When you consider the angry right and the disappointed left, that is a remarkably low number. Compare leaders of other democracies: Boris Johnson, for example has an approval rating of 25% (source: YouGov). In fact, the Evil Cindy Dictator is so unpopular in her country that
she must resignno other leader in any Western democracy has a higher approval rating (except Angela Merkel as she bids farewell). And this is after a slump..
👍🏼
Backups failing to move to the correct place ran the database system out of disk space.
I'll change that properly later today.
Site was down for about 30 minutes.
They printed this. They're proud of it. And worse, they probably think they're funny. Because she looks like a horse, geddit?!!11!!1
Racists gonna racist
OH!
I was looking at that damned thing, and didn't get the "Mrs Ed" comment at all. Must have gotten so distracted by the overt racism that it overloaded my fuckwit-detector.
What I don't get is why the address of the place isn't up.
I'm ok with that in this case – it's so beyond the pale that the right whingers will end up throwing money at them. As it is, nobody can boycott it because airbnb has already ditched it from their listings.
This way, they don't even get the oxygen of complaining about freeze peach and vuctumhood.
Although NZ being small as it is, it'll probably get out in a couple of days. Even if the owners don't out themselves to explain how it was just a joke, or what have you.
Those owners are own-foot-shooters living in some strange Pākehā-supremacist world where being Māori is apparently some kind of social crime. 🙄
That story almost beggars belief.
Thanks for the update. Noticed that when trying to link to 22-11-2021 Open Mike and ended up with 21-11-21 Open mike showing.
All good now
Barry Soper being a real pushy prick thinking his questions are the only important ones at the stand up this afternoon. Jacinda is more patient with him than I would be.
He stormed out!
But remember, it's the woman PM who is "flaky" or does a "hissy fit" or is "emotional", etc, etc. Not Barry with the balls.
On the off chance anyone missed it, NZ moves to the Covid Protection Framework (aka traffic lights) 23:59 Thursday 2 December. Next Monday's cabinet meeting will decide which level each region transitions at, but Auckland has been flagged as being Red.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/22/nzs-new-covid-traffic-light-system-what-it-means-for-you/
thanks. That's also the best explanation of the traffic light system I've seen so far.
Never thought I would see the day when this blog waxes lyrical about Jordan Peterson, guy who wants to roll back all the social gains over the last 50 years and restore a puritanical patriarchial society where all forms of pleasure are outlaws, and LGBT's have no rights.
No wonder I dont post here much any more. You guys are getting worse and worse each day.