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Open mike 28/06/2022

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, June 28th, 2022 - 118 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

118 comments on “Open mike 28/06/2022 ”

  1. Adrian 1

    Why are the Nats so worried, what are they trying to hide ?. Is there more Chinese Govt money unaccounted for ?. Chris Penk sounded highly stressed on Morning Report or is he always like that?

    • Ad 1.1

      Yes to the sunlight.

      But it would still be good to see the current relevant court case conclude this year, before we get fresh legislation rolled into Parliament.

      Practically you can't do a Select Committee process when no one can say anything.

    • Anne 1.2

      A little bit of history as I remember it might help answer the question.

      In the 1990s I knew people who were involved in the newly formed ACT Party. One of the tid-bits of information – and on this occasion it came from the architect of the scheme – was to hide the identities of their big donors by divvying up their contributions into smaller denominations. I think the cut off point at that stage was $10,000. So, when a big donor wanted to give the party $200,000, the cheques were divided into lots of say… $9,990. The result: few of the Party's big donations were recorded for public consumption. Variations along the same theme were also used by the National Party as we have seen in more recent times.

      ACT in those early years received millions of dollars of which the bulk were never officially recorded. The party was set up in the mid -1990s around the time MMP was introduced. The aim of the exercise was to provide National with a coalition partner to its right.

      Every time I hear David Seymore criticising the government for supposed wasteful spending, I think of the 90s. ACT was the most wasteful party ever to exist in this country. They threw money around like it was water. I guess they had so much of it they didn't know what to do with it. They threw sumptuous functions far in excess of anything you see nowadays. So, David Seymour's apparent 'thriftiness' rings hollow to me.

      The Clark govt. closed many of the loop-holes and the Ardern Govt, looks like it plans to finish the job.

  2. Ad 2

    Right on target for the NATO conference, the Prime Minister of Poland asks a pretty pointed question:

    "The war in Ukraine puts before us one crucial question: Does the transatlantic free world still want to occupy a position of leadership? Do we still believe in the universality of values such as freedom and the right of national self-determination? Do we have determination to defend them? If not, we have already lost our future. However, if the flame that has enlivened our civilization for centuries is still smoldering, it is high time we rekindled it and did everything in our power to save Ukraine."

    Opinion | The Future of the West Is in Question – POLITICO

    Every NATO member and affiliate – including ourselves – will have to answer this squarely.

    • joe90 2.1

      Russia a threat to collective security. Rapid reaction troops from 40,000 to 300,000, pre-positioning equipment, and supplies, forward deployed command and control and air defence, pre-assigned defence responsibilities. Done talking about it.

      NATO Secretary General: So Russia has walked away from the partnership and the dialogue that NATO has tried to establish with Russia for many years. They have done so not least by the brutal invasion of Ukraine, a blatant violation, not only of international rule, but also of all the documents and agreements we have signed with Russia to try to establish a framework for a meaningful dialogue with Russia. So the meaningful dialogue we worked for so many years…that's not on the table, that's not working, simply because of Russia's behaviour. They have chosen confrontation instead of dialogue. We regret that, but of course then we need to respond to that reality. And that's exactly what we do with the fundamental shift in our deterrence and defence, and all the other measures we take, not least to provide support to Ukraine from NATO Allies and NATO.


    • weston 2.2

      Or we could bring the warring parties to the negotiating table and save a lot of lives and infrastructure from being destroyed in other words actually apply some intelligence to a situation which could escalate out of all proportion to what is happening now .

      Despite considerable Nato training , weapons supplies and western intelligence provision supposedly , and despite outnumbering Russian fighters by a factor of three to one , Ukraine is steadily losing territory and just as steadily losing men afaik somewhere between two and five hundred a day .They are being used as cannon fodder for a pointless proxy war in which its fairly evident Russia is achieving its objectives regardless .

      Seems the case to me that some individuals think a glorious vast inferno of all the western alliances against Russia fighting for the 'noble' cause of 'freedom' would be a good thing !! a live performance of Starwars of course the reality would be a vast amount of death and destruction and untold more orphans and widows .

      • alwyn 2.2.1

        "Or we could bring the warring parties to the negotiating table

        Pray tell us. Just how are you proposing to get Russia to negotiate anything except to accept a Russian demand that the Ukraine should surrender unconditionally and become a subservient part of a Russian Empire?

        And that Finland, Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania do likewise.

        And that NATO be disbanded and that all US forces should leave Europe.

        And that Russia be given exclusive rights to choose who may form the Polish and German Governments.

        And on and on and on.

        • joe90

          Like unilateral disarmament, unilateral surrender is a tankie's nocturnal emission.

        • Subliminal

          I think you may have missed the point. The question was:

          Should we engage in talking before the initiation of war? Are we now heading for the same point with regard to China? Refusing to talk now and then waving our hands in the air proclaimung innocence when China takes Taiwan.

          If you read the Chas Freeman article you will note that Taiwan is non negotiable for China, just as Ukraine was for Russia. So continuing as we are brings a certain result.

        • I Feel Love

          I agree with Alwyn on this. Exactly.

        • mikesh

          No-one is suggesting they surrender unconditionally, but they should be seeking to ascertain what terms they can obtain. Russia is probably not in a position to obtain much more than they've got already.

      • Macro 2.2.2

        and despite outnumbering Russian fighters by a factor of three to one ,

        Just one of the many lies you tell yourself to support your nonsensical claptrap.


        In terms of manpower and weapons, the arithmetic looks grim for Ukraine.

        Most military experts' estimates put the number of Russian troops near Russia's border with Ukraine at more than 100,000. Russia has also moved some troops to Belarus, north of Ukraine, for military drills.

        Russia's army has about 280,000 personnel and its combined armed forces total about 900,000, while its 2,840 battle tanks outnumber Ukraine's by more than three to one, according to the London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS).


        • joe90

          All they've got.

        • weston

          As you know Macro Russia hasnt declared war on Ukraine its conducting what it calls a special military operation in which afik its using about fifteen percent of its forces .

          • Macro

            LOL 🙄

            • lprent


              You notice that all of the ex-military around this site (and elsewhere) are more than a little contemptuous of the current state of the Russian Federation military forces. They seem to rate a level of being moderately effective terrorists with limited discipline (probably their systematic NCO issues), and with a strong aversion to getting up close to take objectives.

              More interested in throwing targeting missiles at apartment buildings, shopping malls, children's playgounds, schools, and churches.

              What happened to them? Surely they were better at this decades ago. I suspect that the aftermath look will be that kleptocracy and being direct by their intelligence community gutted the armed forces more than anything else.

              • Jenny how to get there

                “More interested in throwing targeting missiles at apartment buildings, shopping malls, children's playgounds, schools, and churches.”

                They’ve had lots of practice.

                How Russia is using tactics from the Syrian playbook in Ukraine

                …..The tactics, and even some of Russia’s soldiers, have come direct from the civil war in Syria – which Moscow joined in 2015 to support President Bashar al-Assad.

                Since then it has carried out a brutal but ultimately successful campaign – helping Assad seize back nearly all of the country from rebel hands. In the process, entire cities have been devastated and up to 24,743 civilians allegedly killed by Russian strikes, according to the civilian harm monitor Airwars.

                From the Damascus suburb of Ghouta, to the great cultural and economic powerhouse of Aleppo, Russian bombs hit hospitals, schools, markets and queues of people waiting for bread.


                Another trademark of the “Syria playbook” is consistent denial of, and disinformation about, civilian casualties and war crimes.

                …..Even the pregnant woman killed in Mariupol was not left to die in dignity – the Russian embassy in London claimed images of her final agonising moments were “fake”.

                That echoed attacks on the White Helmet civilian rescue group, the Syrian victims of Russia’s most aggressive and successful disinformation campaigns…..

                …..The chief spokesperson for the Russian defence ministry, Maj Gen Igor Konashenkov, even alleged, without evidence, that Ukrainian forces were planning to make “staged videos” of fake civilian deaths, in campaigns “based on patterns used by the White Helmets”.

                Sara Kayyali, a Syria researcher at Human Rights Watch, said over several years the campaign in Syria succeeded in casting doubt among many over any allegation of civilian harm.

                “What we came up against was the sophisticated disinformation campaign that the Russian media, in particular, launched against people like the White Helmets. Unfortunately, in many circles, this was quite successful.”


              • Macro

                You notice that all of the ex-military around this site (and elsewhere) are more than a little contemptuous of the current state of the Russian Federation military forces.

                Certainly true for this commentator. I wonder if as weston is so at pains to point out; as Russia thinks that as this is a *special military operation* by Russia and not a war, they cannot by definition, commit war crimes like firing missiles at civilian targets, and indiscriminate raping and pillaging.

                Then again – you don't have to declare war to start one. I think only Putin weston and a few others actually think that this is not a war.

          • lprent

            Yeah the Russian cowards thought that they could simply walk in and take over. Didn't work. And that happened before any heavy equipment got shipped on.

            The Russian armed forces appear to be totally mindless and badly trained at most normal military skills.

            Their military practice appears to be concentrate large quantities of artillery shelling on small areas, then sending the conscripted troops from the occupied areas to stumble to be slaughtered in stupid frontal assaults. However it does sound like they're running out of local victims to drag off the streets. Maybe the Russian federation will have to start killing more of their own soldiers.

            By the sound of it, the only things that Russian soldiers are good at is rape and thieving. Like this little bit of tracking…

            Tracking where Russia is taking Ukraine's stolen grain

            A fascinating use of open source investigation.

  3. Poission 3

    NZ electricity supply is fragile, today with wind generation being 500mw less,due to low flows.

    SI hydro is -500 mw due to maintenance and 1 peaker in repair in NI.A slight demand reduction as distributors,moved to Ripple control but pricing on spot ( otahuhu north) is 305$ mwh.

    A circuit trip in NI would see brownouts.


    • Bearded Git 3.1

      There are 10 major solar power developments in the pipeline in NZ. This and rapidly improving battery storage will help in the future.

      Big money has realised it is profitable to invest in large-scale solar (which is cheaper than nuclear BTW).

      • Poission 3.1.1

        And that would remove some risk,but there are delays due to the high civic work load on bike lanes.

        The risk had been signaled,( as the winter maintenence program) but not communicated that conservation could reduce demand,like the fuel problem during a war.

        • Ad

          Ripple cuts in Otago seemed to be pretty well communicated last week.

          • Poission

            Only after the warning was issued,It is a standard norm in chch with Orion during winter peaks (to modulate frequency) more with hint programmes to reduce demand etc.

          • Graeme

            Aurora management got a bit of a tune up from Mayor Boult, and a very large section of the community when they 'accidentally' turned everyone's hot water off a year ago. Woke up to a cold shower….

            They have been quite good at publicising outages since, but that's compared to saying nothing.

        • weka

          The risk had been signaled,( as the winter maintenence program) but not communicated that conservation could reduce demand,like the fuel problem during a war.

          what does that mean?

          • Poission

            Conservation program like, turning light off when not in room,turning off vanity lighting in showrooms at night etc.

            With fuel both demand destruction due to high prices,as well as limiting trips,use of PT,tyre inflation all tend to reduce demand volumes and form a lid on price.

            IEA conservation programmes in Europe have seen demand reduce in fuel use by 6%.

            • weka

              so you're suggesting we conserve power in order to prevent brownouts while the system is under stress?

            • gsays

              Turning ALL things off at the wall, ie nothing on standby will reduce consumption by 10%.

              Full Disclosure, we went off grid 20 years ago when we relocated our house. #maxbradfordknowswhatheistalkingabout/yeahright

              We under invested in generation, went through a couple of diesel gennies (pesky things need oil changes and such), saw off a battery bank (no battery ever dies, they are murdered) so please excuse a touch of smugness when 'the market' fails to deliver and we have energy security.

              • Poission

                The conservation was needed in landscape lighting for buildings etc,neon advertising lights.There was enough fast response standby generation,which included liquid fuels,and gas.which gave both a limit on spot pricing,and insecurity Our spot pricing was around 250mwh under high risk generation,Australia is at present eastern seaboard 550 mwh.

              • Rosemary McDonald

                …diesel gennies (pesky things …)

                And noisy. Even when 'suppressed'. There's not only the rattle and hum, but a thrummmm. Really, really, really negatively impacting on in- line neighbours. Especially at midnight. Or at 4.30am. (The assumption is that it is an automated system in that the genny fires up before the batteries terminally discharge. Because surely nobody would consciously go and turn on such a beast knowing full well how impacting it is on trying- to- sleep neighbours.) This solar system was installed for not only a couple of off grid residences, but for 3 phase supply for a busy workshop. Makes a person already struggling with grumpiness issues even more grumpy.

                We did the turn everything off thing the other morning when even up here in the North it was very cold. Heard about the 'crisis' on Natrad early so automatically did our bit. Counting the days to the installation of our hybrid solar system.

                • gsays

                  I have to acknowledge I was that neighbour in the early days.

                  Our immediate neighbours had the decency to ask, (after a week but before the solar/wind generation was commissioned) if the genny running at night was going to be a long term thing. Because their neighbour, their elderly Mum was getting pissed off.

                  Went and paid a visit , armed with a few helpings of lasagne and made the peace.

                  Very exciting for you guys to be getting a system installed. By hybrid do you mean solar and grid-tied or solar and another means of generation with batteries ?

                  The reason I ask was the concept of a 'lines charge' was what encouraged me off-grid.

                  • Rosemary McDonald

                    Solar with batteries and still on the grid. Until we see if we can live within the solar capacity. Having happily lived in a Bus for a number of years with 300 watts on the roof it will be interesting to see how power extravagant we have become living in an albeit wee house for a couple of years. It'd be nice to go totally off grid…but needs change as one gets older, and I am not prepared to compromise on my other half's safety. We'll see. Setting up in winter (providing the installation is on plan) will be a good test.

      • alwyn 3.1.2

        How much Solar power do you think we would have available today?

        After all the bulk of the country is under cloud according to the weather map I am looking at.

        • weka

          there's usually more sun that people realise, and solar generation also works with some cloud.

        • Bearded Git

          A common misconception is that solar panels do not work in cloudy conditions:

          "…solar panels do work on cloudy days — but not as effectively as they would on a sunny day. Expect them to produce 10-25% of their normal power output, depending on how thick the cloud cover is."


          Of course with 10 large-scale solar plants scattered around NZ (and increasing rapidly now) it is very unlikely that they will all be working at 20% at the same time. In any event rapidly improving battery storage will offset cloudy day problems.

  4. Subliminal 4

    It seems that the discussion in the West has become limited to "my way or the highway". It cannot be argued that between 2014 and 2022 Russia did not make an effort to discuss what they saw as events impacting on their security. For the West to point blank refuse these discussions and then at the point of conflict demand we go all in with Ukraine and all the death and destruction that will entail is a little creepy.

    NATO is in a serious expansion phase with the meeting starting in Spain likely to also target China as an enemy. We can see diplomacy dead and conflict resolution only possible through force of arms. Forcing "opponents into corners from which they can only see force as an option does not absolve NATO as being complicit.

    Chas Freeman has an excellent discussion of this in his latest interview. His view of Kissenger is that he is a wise sage so nobody can accuse him of being soft. Yet he is amazed by the current situation where all conversation has stopped. This just makes war more likely. Are we all good with that?

    • In Vino 4.1

      Well said, Subliminal. It seems that most of us obediently swallow the easy line:

      Wussia is naughty, and USA-Nato are always angelic, and the Ukraine is the very essence of innocence.


      • Subliminal 4.1.1

        And the plots about as complex as an Enid Blyton story and everyone just laps it up. Goodies look like goodies and baddies look like baddies so that nobody even has to think

        • Stuart Munro

          It's a grand story you have there – but there is no substance to it.

          Ukraine was not carrying out ethnic cleansing of Russians – but the perpetrators of the 'special operation' are. Matters like the organized theft of Ukrainian grain cannot be laid at Nato's door either.

          The simple fact is that Putin has regressed Russia back to its days as a pariah state, an existential threat to peaceful and law abiding nations everywhere.

          Of course there are plenty of simpletons about, too lazy to follow Putin's history of genocides and civil murders. For these superficial buffoons the good guys and the bad are simply an interchangeable matter of perspective.

          People who do know Putin's history in all its sanguinary detail however, are not confused for a moment by your ill-founded attempts at peddling a false equivalence.

          • In Vino

            Glad you have found a nice religious creed that pleases you, Stuart, but I think we will have to wait for time to tell the truth.

            Current indications are that Time is possibly favouring the naughty Russians. (?)

            But rather than bickering, let's wait and see how by much passionate advocates have to adjust their terminology and weasel-words to cope with the way reality turns out.

            • Stuart Munro

              Time is possibly favouring the naughty Russians. (?)

              You might think so, looking at creeping occupations of the map of Ukraine. But then, Germany in WWII occupied a much more substantial area with operation Barbarossa, and were resoundingly beaten, retaining none of that territory.

              You will indeed have to wait for time to tell you, because you have not troubled to inform yourself adequately.

              Naughty doesn't quite cover it. Atrocious is more apt – having committed enough atrocities already to keep the ICC busy for decades. To the extent that you pretend to Left or progressive values, you cannot support Putin. It's as simple as that.

              • In Vino

                Not so simple when one fears that both sides are equally evil. You seem to want to believe in a good cause..

                The USA has quietly been poking the bear with a stick for some time. Supposedly removed from this war, the USA has stated that it believes that Russia must be bled white, and incapable of ever starting such a war again.

                No ulterior motives?

                Their ambassador to Russia clearly warned them that the vast majority of the Kremlin viewed Ukraine linking with NATO as an existential threat, which never hit headlines in our media for some reason..

                Enjoy your 'simple' choice. Time will tell.

                • Stuart Munro

                  Of course it's very simple to buy into a false narrative, the moreso when Russia has been putting considerable resources into disinformation for decades.

                  And certainly, the US gets things wrong, and does things wrong from time to time. But they have a significant continuous media audit going on of all their activities. And they are ashamed when they are caught out, as they are from time to time. Russia is not ashamed. Of all the many things Russia says, admission of culpability or error is entirely absent from their discourse.

                  Yes yes, Russia warned all kinds of things. They did so because they conceive it to be their right to unilaterally overturn the franchise of Ukrainian voters. And Georgian voters. And Chechen voters. And anyone else that gets in their way.

                  Cherish the delusion that one may always maintain a clever neutrality – without merely being one of Putin's many dupes.

                  • In Vino

                    Other dupes as well, Stuart. Monroe Doctrine OK for USA, but for nobody else?
                    And I have not noticed the USA being ashamed when caught out. Any examples?

  5. joe90 5

    Nope, not related.

  6. Puckish Rogue 6


    So the Black Caps were outplayed and, more crucially, out-thought and out-selected and no amount of absolutely heroic batting by Mitchell and could do no more support from Blundell can hide that

    Its been bad, really bad. Senior players didn't step up, odd selections were made and while the Black Caps got themselves into positions of strength they let it slip

    Why and how…I don't know but I can make some informed guesses (and I will)

    First off the batting.

    The batting line up is as good as it gets with NZ however there needs to be some tinkering with the batting positions

    Latham stays but really theres no one else to replace him with (hopefully Ravindra can keep improving)

    Will Young needs to be moved down to 5 pronto, hes a very good middle order batter but only a makeshift opener and test cricket is not the place to try to learn your trade, this is Will Youngs test batting stats


    Conway needs to be moved back to opener, while hes not a specific opener you can see how well he does opening and at number 3 here:


    Hopefully Williamson decides hes got enough money and forgoes the next IPL and fully rehabs his elbow, hes far too good to be in a slump for long so he stays at 3

    Nicholls stays at 4, hes earned the right to have a decent run there

    Mitchell comes in at 6 but hopefully the game plan changes (more on that) to allow Mitchell to be used as a bowler more often.

    I see him best used as someone to tie up one end, keep the runs down and build the pressure for the attacking bowlers at the other end (a modern day Chatfield if you like) and any wickets he gets are a bonus (though a FC bowling average of 30 is nothing to sniff at)

    Blundell stays at 7, though his fortitude this series was really impressive and maybe, in future, bat at 6

    I'll leave 8,9, 10 and 11 because its tricky.

    The selectors seem to have reverted back to Black Caps DNA and have a hard on for the classic bits and pieces player NZ used to, and still do, produce in droves

    Bits and pieces differ from all rounders in (imho) that they sort of chip in where they can, they won't get selected for one thing or the other but that they can sort of do both make them a lesser all rounder

    For example Chris Cairns is your classic all rounder, can bat averages 40 at number 7 and bowl averages under 30

    Michael Bracewell is your bits and pieces players, can bat a bit FC batting average 33 and can bowl a bit FC bowling average 49

    Mitchell Santner was the same FC batting 29 and FC bowling 47

    I think NZ desperately want another Vettori (test batting average 40 at number 8) but they really should be looking at using your best spinner to take wickets.

    As an example: in NZ in the test series against SA, SA spinners took 6 wickets and Bangladesh spinners took 7 wickets, where was Patel?

    Jack Leach is a Slow Left Arm Orthodox Spinner and he got a ten wicket haul in the third test.

    Ajaz Patel is a Slow Left Arm Orthodox Spinner and he got 2 overs in the first test and was replaced by Bracewell.

    Patel has also been replaced as the teams spinner by no less than Ravindra (who may yet come good) with a FC bowling average of 56, Santner and Bracewell

    Imagine what his confidence is like…

    The Black Caps selectors just wedded to the idea of four seamers no matter the conditions (except India) and thats that but because of the unsettled batting line up we can't afford to have Jamieson play at 8, he just doesn't provide us enough runs.

    He has a test average of 20 (at 8) and a FC average of 18 so hes not providing enough runs in the pivotal number 8 position

    Our best selection would be three seamers, one spinner and CDG and/or Mitchell to provide the rest, imho

    The selectors and coaches have been great, fantastic even. They should be winning all the awards. World Test Champs, finalists in T20 and One Dayers cannot be taken away and we'll see how long it takes another country to achieve that feat

    But its now time for the coaches and selectors to step aside and let someone a little less conservative (yeah yeah I know) take over

    There are good players coming along but the team needs spinners and no more bits and pieces players and a captain thats willing to give spinners, proper spinners, a real chance

  7. arkie 7

    In other Supreme Court news, OUR Supreme Court news:

    Family First does not qualify for charitable status, Supreme Court rules

    The Supreme Court has ruled Family First does not qualify for charitable status, saying the group's work is not compatible with charity.

    The court's judges found the organisation's advocacy was not fair, balanced or respectful.

    In 2013 the Charities Registration Board decided Family First no longer qualified for charitable status, saying that expressing one-sided views was not educational, and Family First's main purpose was political.


    • Patricia Bremner 7.1

      This has been ongoing since 2013. It is a political group not a religious one.

      • arkie 7.1.1

        Absolutely, and that has now been confirmed by the Supreme Court. A victory against pressure groups disguising themselves as charities.

        • Belladonna

          Which I support 100%

          Charities do a vast amount of good work throughout our society – especially right now, with inflation hitting many families hard.

          As a society I think that just about all of us are absolutely OK with them being tax free, so more of their money can go where it makes the most difference.

          Political pressure groups (of all political stripes) should own their situation- and not try to hide behind charitable status.

  8. Puckish Rogue 8

    Trumps legacy may not just be limited to being a very good president but also:




    Trump: Even when hes not in power he gets more things done than Biden

    • joe90 8.1

      So anything elected officials pass can be questioned and overruled by an un-elected Supreme Court. Just like Iran.

      • Puckish Rogue 8.1.1

        Well its only been in existence since the late 1700s so probably just a few kinks still to work out

    • fender 8.2

      "….being a very good president…"

      Have had concerns for quite some time, but you've now confirmed that you're deranged.

      Can you imagine the state of affairs if that Putin loving criminal was still in the White House.

      • Puckish Rogue 8.2.1

        Inflation in the USA would be lower

        Petrol prices everywhere would be lower

        The Taliban wouldn't have gotten hold of approximately 7 billions worth of military equipment

        Putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine

        That all right for starters?

        • fender

          Oh shit, so PoohTon is just protesting the 'stolen election' , dang son it's all making sense now //

          • Puckish Rogue

            Times Putin invaded Ukraine:

            When Clinton was President

            When Obama was President and Biden VP

            When Trump was President

            When Biden was President

            • fender

              Ah you've cracked it, the Ton-of-Pooh terrorist is a Republican supporter, ain't they all tho

              • Puckish Rogue

                Russia also invaded Georgia in 2008, during the presidency of George W Bush, Republican, if you weren’t aware.

                • fender

                  Don't piss on your own correlation theory, just explain why the terrorist wouldn't have invaded if that clown was still in the White House, if you can.

                  • Puckish Rogue

                    Because when Trump was in power Putin didn't invade, when Trump wasn't in power Putin did invade.


                    • fender

                      Oh dear, we're not getting far are we.

                      Maybe if the clown was still president he would have teamed up with the asshole in a joint invasion.

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      No you're not but I find you quite amusing so thats something angry

                    • fender

                      Ah I see, you've got the same stunted maturity of that former 'very good president'

                    • Puckish Rogue

                      You appear to have the intelligence of the current president cool

                    • In Vino

                      Go easy, PR.

                      What worries me is that English is not Putin's first language, yet when he speaks English he makes all our current leaders sound semi-literate at best.

                      This worries me, more than Trump would ever have worried anybody. And now we have Biden. And Boris.

                      How can we possibly lose??

  9. weka 9

    Is anyone else finding TS slow to load?

    • lprent 9.1

      Me. It seems to be originating from the database, which is currently chewing up 4-6 of the cores on the system for no obvious reason.

      • lprent 9.1.1

        I'll pull the database offline this evening for a rebuild, it looks like it has some kind of fragmented indexing issue from the diagnostics. At least one of the tables isn't using a index.

  10. Blade 10

    This is disturbing. What does it say about the calibre of police we now have? What does it say about the strategies police used during the parliamentary riots? Obviously quick intervention may have saved our police much stress and angst.


    [please tell us what *you think it says. Spell it out, rather than asking rhetorical questions that lead to unclarity – weka]

    • weka 10.1

      mod note.

    • Nic the NZer 10.2

      Guess this suggests your application to be police commissioner has not yet been returned.

      Maybe its not the time to call the police into schools to make up for teacher shortages just now though. I know talk back already simulated that idea and thought it was a good one, but still think there are open questions around it. And it seems that there is significant mental stress amoung the police force as it stands, without being asked to mind a faction of teenage smart-asses.

      • Patricia Bremner 10.2.1

        Police used to have open days to show off the job especially dog squad displays at schools and community liaison. 20 years ago!!

        • Rosemary McDonald

          Our fearless defenders of Law and Order might have further harmed their reputation with the Young People after this disgusting display of 'protect and serve'.

          The kid's name is Alexander. He is 17 years old. He was peacefully protesting and offered no resistance once grabbed by the thugs cops.

          I bet Alexander has not been offered any counseling. Or the young naked woman who was dragged by her hair during the same police operation on February 10th. Or any of the other overwhelmingly peaceful protestors who were assaulted arrested that day.

    • Blade 10.3

      I have concerns with the calibre of police officers I have seen on the beat. They have no presence. The women officers I've seen have either been slightly overweight, or have been absolute babes. They seem out of place as police officers to my perceptions. Too many of the men are slight in build and I doubt they would be able to bench press over 70kgs.

      Today at my supermarket I arrived behind the police ( male and female officers). There where three lowlifes refusing to wear masks. One was vaping in the store. They abused the officers who tried talking them down. When that failed they radioed( I assume) for help. An older officer turned up in a couple of minutes. A Maori, and obvious to anyone this wasn't a man to be messed with, he was briefed by attending officers. He then zeroed in on the the most abusive perp, said something to him, and then scragged him to the ground with ease. The situation was quickly under control. BTW… my supermarket has two parks reserved for police.

      So it's no surprise to me so many officers need medical help coping with their jobs. I think training needs to be revamped.

      . But that's only half the battle. Recruits have to contend with this uncertainty:


      And finally. If officers where armed I'm sure their confidence to handle any situation would rise dramatically. Physical presence wouldn't be so important.

      • Nic the NZer 10.3.1

        How does recruitment work when you take over?

        Are you keeping the babes or is that the wrong look? What about all the ladies who can bench press 70kg? Is that the main criteria now.

        And for the males who gets to rate all the female recruits who pass muster without the bench press?

      • Incognito 10.3.2

        And finally. If officers where armed I’m sure their confidence to handle any situation would rise dramatically. Physical presence wouldn’t be so important.

        OMG! They just pull out their big gun and point it at the little dweeb who will then cower in fear. FFS!

        • Blade

          Of course they won't, FFS. But it's called a confidence builder. And most police want that confidence builder. The police commissioner doesn't.

          [citation needed for the claim that the police commissioner doesn’t want a confidence builder – weka]

          • weka

            mod note.

          • weka

            comments held back until this is addressed.

          • Incognito

            So, if a bench press > 70 kg, a solid training at the College (incl. passing the PAT), a uniform with all the necessary gear, and having a colleague with you doesn’t give enough confidence then give them a loaded gun to boost their alleged confidence shortfall? If that’s what it takes for those Officers then they shouldn’t be on the beat in the first place. Perhaps they all should do bodybuilding. FFS.

            • Blade

              You obviously didn't read my post:

              ''I have concerns with the calibre of police officers I have seen on the beat. They have no presence. The women officers I've seen have either been slightly overweight, or have been absolute babes. They seem out of place as police officers to my perceptions.''

              Therefore: Given we have substandard officers on the beat in my opinion, I wrote this:

              ''And finally. If officers where armed I'm sure their confidence to handle any situation would rise dramatically. Physical presence wouldn't be so important.''

              ''If that’s what it takes for those Officers then they shouldn’t be on the beat in the first place. Perhaps they all should do bodybuilding. FF.''


              Here's something along similar lines. I'm not the only one thinking this.

              @ 10.25


              Mikey v Chris v Mark

              [it’s very unlikely that Incognito didn’t read your comment. The problem here is you have just repeated what you already said, instead of addressing the issues Incog raised in the comment you replied to. I’m also unclear on what you are saying. Are you agreeing that if police can’t handle being on the front line then they shouldn’t be there? These are things for you to be explicit about and clarify. Linking to Hosking needs some relevance to the conversation, and you have to spell it out.

              I’m going to give an educational ban here, in the sense of hoping you will up your game, but also your default still seems to be to have a go at the commenter. I also need to reduce my workload for the next few days. I appreciate you responding positively to moderation today, and I’d encourage you to reread what has happened before you come back. 4 days – weka]

              • weka

                mod note.

              • Incognito

                Of course, I did read your comment and I responded to your focus on outward appearances and carrying weapons to boost confidence.

                Because you view them as lacking in physical presence – I assume not buff, big, and bulky or lean & mean – you consider them lacking in confidence and being “substandard”. In other words, you are projecting. To substitute this presumed lack of confidence you suggest to arm them. Now, if they really lacked confidence, as you’d assume, they would indeed be more prone to drawing and possibly using their weapon. Size (or weapons) are no substitute for confidence. Confidence comes from competence, not the other way round. I utterly reject your repeated reckons of arming NZ Police as routine standard outfit & equipment based on your reasoning and I find your continuing criticism of NZ Police absurd and unrealistic no matter what Mikey or Mark think of it (and I’m not really that interested in listening to their reckons if yours are just a copy of theirs).

                BTW, it’s good that those ‘puny’ cops called for advice (or assistance) rather than messing it up (or letting it go), but that’s also a bunch of assumptions.

            • weka

              The word confidence isn’t in your first link. Your argument was that “And most police want that confidence builder.”

              If you think that is supported in that article, please provide a quote.

              Can’t find the word confidence in the second piece either.

              What’s at issue here is you making claims of fact instead of just expressing your opinion. You can say that you believe being armed would build confidence (opinion), but if you say “And most police want that confidence builder.” then you have to provide evidence for that claim. Can you see how you have taken your opinion and made a claim of fact to support that opinion but haven’t been able to back it up.

              For future reference, please provide quotes with your links. I’ve spent too much time moderating today already. I read half of the first piece because I was interested, but generally it’s on commenters to supply the bit they think is relevant. Mods and other commenters often don’t have time.

              • In Vino

                Thanks Weka and Incognito.

                I see Blade as the very image of the agent provocateur, and I think you are doing God's work. (Rich, coming from an atheist..)

                I think Blade needs to find a new, more worthwhile pastime..I am sure it could make him a happier, more settled person.

    • Incognito 11.1

      And the point you’re making is what? Or is TS simply a notice board for your pointless comments? If so, take it somewhere else or start your own notice board.

      • Jimmy 11.1.1

        Simply to start a discussion, very much like comment 6 above on the cricket.

        • Incognito

          You start a discussion by making a point and/or stating an opinion, preferably political, that others can reply to and challenge you on rather than dumping a link with a mere outcry to elicit other outcries and emotive outbursts. The comment @ 6 had substance, yours did not.

    • Sabine 11.2

      "That dirty bastard" is a very kind understatement. Other words come to mind.

      from the link above

      An Oranga Tamariki caregiver who denies engaging in a “threesome” with a 13-year-old boy and another man was the orchestrator behind it all, a court has heard.

      Malcolm Wayne Campbell is on trial before Judge Paul Kellar in the Christchurch District Court on charges of sexual connection with a young person and supplying cannabis.

      The Crown alleges Campbell took part in a sexual encounter at his home with another adult and an underage boy – the boy was 13 at the time and had been in Campbell’s care for a few months previously.

      The other adult man, whose name is suppressed, gave evidence in court on Tuesday. He said he engaged with oral and penetrative sex with the boy as Campbell watched and touched himself.

  11. Puckish Rogue 12

    I can't wait for the next thrilling post about Luxon, I wonder what it will be…

    "Luxon doesn't put the toilet seat down!"

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  12. KJT 13

    Revolt Against Debt – George Monbiot

    "Forced austerity and forced exploitation of fossil fuel reserves are threads that could draw together climate and social justice campaigns all over the world. Debt for Climate proposes a global revolt against debt and austerity, tied to the prevention of climate breakdown. It calls on poor world governments to refuse to honour their debts, and to channel the money they would otherwise have had to pay into public services, climate adaptation and a just transition out of fossil fuels. It calls on activists in the rich world to demand the cancellation of debt and an end to austerity, both at home and abroad, and reparations.."

  13. Jimmy 14

    What chance did this poor child have? Police try their best but the family circles the wagons and cover up. Shocking.

    Family members met after baby's tangi to discuss who would 'take fall', court hears | Stuff.co.nz

    How can this attitude be changed?

    • pat 14.1

      The state of the nations mental health is of great concern

    • Descendant Of Smith 14.2

      The gang culture of not narking, getting the bash and someone taking the fall for someone else to earn their patch isn't helping.

      Those aren't really mental health issues – though they certainly can impact on peoples mental health.

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