Open Mike 28/11/2017

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, November 28th, 2017 - 201 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

201 comments on “Open Mike 28/11/2017 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Ed 1
    28 November 2017 at 6:19 am

    Soper’s daily whinge and smear against the government.
    He really is a nasty piece of work.
    This time he has a go at Golriz Ghahraman.
    What a slimeball.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11948555

    And there there is Trevett’s petty attack.
    ‘Ardern flourishes in ‘swamp of secrecy’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11948523

    The Herald really does not like this government.
    And it has miserable puppets who would sell their soul for a pay cheque.

    • DH 1.1
      28 November 2017 at 7:06 am

      I wonder if Soper can see the irony in his closing line;

      “It’s just that one side has been consistently and conveniently highlighted over the other.”

      Didn’t take long to get from Kiwiblog and Whaleoil to the Herald did it.

      • Ed 1.1.1
        28 November 2017 at 7:16 am

        Brilliant observation.

      • Carolyn_nth 1.1.2
        28 November 2017 at 7:36 am

        Remember how John Key’s new government in 2008, came in on a raft of two track dirty politics and soft media infotainment spin? And then they were like the deer in the headlines, without much of a plan, so…..

        2009 John Key’s much touted Job Summit, threw up “3 Big Ideas”. Audrey Young raved in the NZ Herald:

        The most expensive proposal from the summit was for an equity investment fund involving the Government and private banks as partners.
        …
        The most expensive single pledge given yesterday came from Warehouse founder Stephen Tindall, who said the Tindall Foundation would put $1 million towards “bottom-up” training that helped improve people’s access to information and services.
        …
        At the summit, Mr Key said the public-private investment fund would be “a pot of investment money to help New Zealand companies get the access to share capital they need to grow their cake and therefore to create jobs”.
        …
        Mr Key said completing the walking track would cost about $6 million.

        Adding a cycle track would create huge tourism opportunities.

        He singled out for mention a possible public-private fund to help increase tourism.

        He also said he wanted to fast-track implementation of National’s youth guarantee scheme which covers the transition from school to training or study.

        • Zorb6 1.1.2.1
          28 November 2017 at 7:58 am

          The Thiel deal,worked out rather well.For Thiel of course,although Joyce said it was Labour’s fault.

        • Puckish Rogue 1.1.2.2
          28 November 2017 at 8:51 am

          Spinning like a spinning thing:

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11948524

          But she admits that her profile page on the Green Party website, which states that she has put African leaders on trial for abusing their power, “could be clearer”.

          Theres a slight difference between prosecuting war criminals and defending war criminals

          [lprent: You are simply lying at several levels. But I think this is easier to demonstrate rather than explain at any level..

          1. There is no significiant difference between defending and prosecuting. Both are part of a court process that leads to judgement.

          2. Her bio actually said – read it carefully

          Her studies at Oxford, and work as a lawyer for the United Nations and in New Zealand, have focused on enforcing human rights and holding governments to account. Golriz has lived and worked in Africa, The Hague and Cambodia putting on trial world leaders for abusing their power, and restoring communities after war and human rights atrocities, particularly empowering women engaged in peace and justice initiatives.

          3. Putting people on trial is not a prosecution prerogative. It applies to both defense and and prosecution.

          4. I think you are trolling and as a local prosecutor and judge, we clearly don’t need a defense. Therefore there should be no trial to look at the actual circumstances.

          5. Banned for 1 month for crimes against robust debate..

          6. This is not arbitrary in anyway. It is a simple matter of arbitrary lynch mob justice without due process.

          ]

          • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.2.1
            28 November 2017 at 10:43 am

            And since Golriz Ghahraman has experience of both, she knows an infinite amount more about the difference than you do, but then so does the stenographer.

            • Puckish Rogue 1.1.2.2.1.1
              28 November 2017 at 10:52 am

              I bet she also knows that saying you prosecuted war criminals sounds a lot better than saying you defended them

          • amirite 1.1.2.2.2
            28 November 2017 at 10:56 am

            there’s a slight difference between ‘defending war criminals’ and working as an intern on a defence team for the war criminals

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.1.2.2.2.1
              28 November 2017 at 11:05 am

              That line of attack is an attack on the entire justice system. Shall we start listing which National Party MPs have worked as defence lawyers?

              Everyone who works in a courtroom enables the prosecution of alleged offenders.

      • Psycho Milt 1.1.3
        28 November 2017 at 9:05 am

        Didn’t take long to get from Kiwiblog and Whaleoil to the Herald did it.

        It never does. The Herald should cut out the middle-man – ditch Soper and put DPF on a retainer for its right-wing propaganda stories.

        • Sanctuary 1.1.3.1
          28 November 2017 at 9:32 am

          Yup, from sewer to MSM as the National party smear machine cranks up and all the MSM journos gather around the outflow pipe mouths agape. After all, Farrar negates the need to think, or to resrach, and he helpfully even writes your questions for you.

          Soper in particular seems to have decided to wage a misogynistic war on anyone who dares to commit the crime of being young, female and more powerful than him. Linda Clark got it 100% right when she pretty much name checked him and his attitude and told he needed to wake up or ship out.

          • Anne 1.1.3.1.1
            28 November 2017 at 10:22 am

            It’s obvious what the Nats and their MSM enablers are trying to do. The accusations are going to come thick and fast through to the end of this parliamentary session (ie. just before Xmas) leaving a trail of perplexed voters to gather around the barbecues wondering whether they made the right choice voting for Labour/Green or NZ First – whichever. It doesn’t matter the claims are nothing more than garbled rubbish. Its the first part of a slow, subliminal manipulation of their minds.

            I noted the sharp edge of cold fury in Barry Soper’s voice at the first stand-up media interviews which followed Winston Peters’ announcement. I knew then he was going to take a vicious approach and he has clearly influenced the little wife, Heather DPA.

    • Antoine 1.2
      28 November 2017 at 8:40 am

      Ghahraman is a genocide enabler

      A.

      [RL: This smells like a particularly silly attempt at trolling. End it here. No further warning.]

      • DoublePlusGood 1.2.1
        28 November 2017 at 8:52 am

        How exactly do you come up with that piece of nonsense, Antoine?

      • Psycho Milt 1.2.2
        28 November 2017 at 9:07 am

        Antoine is a dog felcher.

        Do I have this game right? It looks like fun but I’m not clear on how to play.

      • Antoine 1.2.3
        28 November 2017 at 10:09 am

        @RL

        Ban me if you want, I believe what she did was wrong.

        [RL: I don’t care what you believe here, I do care that you dropped a controversial comment with no supporting argument or citation. That ‘smells’ very much like typical hit and run troll behaviour. I moderate on behaviour not content; make your case honestly and I’m unlikely to intervene.]

        A.

        • adam 1.2.3.1
          28 November 2017 at 10:16 am

          Bot Antoine, I see you added can’t read to the list of your idiocy.

          If you need help with a word, feel free to ask.

          https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Trolling

        • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.3.2
          28 November 2017 at 10:27 am

          You realise that without defence lawyers we can’t put people on trial at all? If you want genocide and other human rights abuses to be prosecuted, you have to have court staff.

          Take your notion to its logical conclusion and you’re effectively saying that the International Court of Justice enables war crimes, and that our court system enables murder.

          Is that what you’re saying?

          • Antoine 1.2.3.2.1
            28 November 2017 at 10:30 am

            No!

            There is a role for defense lawyers in the legal system and we need a legal system. That doesnt mean I have to like or endorse those who choose to defend heinous crim inals.

            A.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.3.2.1.1
              28 November 2017 at 10:37 am

              No. That isn’t what you said. Your endearments and endorsements have no value, so with-holding them is of no consequence. However, you made a very specific allegation against people who work on legal defence teams – that their job enables crime.

              Are you now backing down from that into a vague sense of disapproval? If so, how about you take some personal responsibility for your disgusting false accusation?

              Grow a spine.

              • Antoine …
                28 November 2017 at 10:40 am

                To work to get a guilty criminal acquitted, enables more crime of the same sort. I don’t resile from that

                A.

                • One Anonymous Bloke …
                  28 November 2017 at 10:51 am

                  First the verdict, then the trial. Joseph Nzirorera would be proud of you.

                • McFlock …
                  28 November 2017 at 11:40 am

                  That’s not actually the role of a defense lawyer, any more than the role of a prosecutor is “to get an innocent person convicted”.

                  Often the morally bankrupt or hard of thinking reduce the functions to simply “get a guilty criminal acquitted” or “innocent person convicted”, but the role of the court is to try to determine the truth. The prosecution present their case, the defense present the case as it appeared to the defendant, and the court decides. Neither party in an adversarial system is allowed to mislead the court, AFAIK. Correct me if I’m wrong.

                • Macro …
                  28 November 2017 at 11:51 am

                  And it’s ok to work for a company that sells a product that kills people and has killed more than the all of Rwanda?

    • Wayne 1.3
      28 November 2017 at 10:49 am

      Why is it unreasonable to point out that Golriz Ghahraman acted for the defence in the genocide trials. When you read her bio on the Green website it gave the impression she was prosecuting genocide, not just in Cambodia but also in Rawanda.
      Now I have no problem with her acting for the defence, but she should not have given the wrong impression.
      It is not unfair for a journalist to point that out. It is not the act of a slimeball to do so, nether is it sexist.
      This site is always saying how terrible National MP’s on the basis they are all psychopaths and liars. But you can’t stand even the slightest adverse comment about those from the left.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 1.3.1
        28 November 2017 at 10:58 am

        What about accusing her of enabling genocide? Which is what “the left” is actually defending her against.

        Can you help me understand right wing thinks on this issue please? When you collaborated with Nicky Hager, were you enabling war crimes or Al Quaeda?

        What about the Law Commission? You definitely must’ve enabled some pretty serious crimes there, and I don’t just mean the things the National Party wanted 😉

        • David Mac 1.3.1.1
          28 November 2017 at 11:40 am

          Yes, if we use that ruler to measure Golriz every lawyer that ever defends a criminal is somehow implicated in the crime.

          It’s crucial that the crime and the analytical dissection of it after the event are mutually exclusive.

          If Golriz’s bio implies she rode around the world on a big white stallion solving the war crime woes of the world, if we all agree everyone is entitled to a quality defence, she did. I lie in mine, I was useless at Rugby.

        • Wayne 1.3.1.2
          28 November 2017 at 12:28 pm

          OAB,

          My comment was in response to Ed’s initial comment, but there have been so many other comments added, it is distanced from that – probably also the result of using an iPhone.

          David Farrar on Kiwiblog put the issue in quire a reasonable way, but some of the commenters on his site, not so much. But then some commenters on any of the main political sites use extravagant language accusing people of all sorts of things, and acting from the basest of reasons. The Standard is certainly not immune from that.

          • Psycho Milt 1.3.1.2.1
            28 November 2017 at 12:34 pm

            DPF put it in as appalling a way as Phil Quin did – as a propaganda call to all those on the right who’d like to skip the human rights stuff and get on with the punishments.

            • greywarshark 1.3.1.2.1.1
              28 November 2017 at 7:36 pm

              Some one on radio recently was saying how much was paid by observers to watch when they had really brutal punishments. I don’t think that human nature has left those of today unconcerned about the niceties of justice and rule of law, more enlightened than in the past.

              There are some amazing things in this piece:
              If a crowd was denied the spectacle of an execution on the allotted day, occasionally there was some gruesome compensation. In England in 1221, Thomas of Eldersfield was reprieved from hanging at the last moment; in a show of mercy, he was blinded and castrated instead. Robert Bartlett describes the scene: ‘the eyes were thrown to the ground, the testicles used as footballs, the local lads kicking them playfully at the girls’.
              http://www.historytoday.com/sean-mcglynn/violence-and-law-medieval-england

              Here is some homework for you in case you hadn’t caught up with these. Good primary school info.
              http://primaryhomeworkhelp.co.uk/tudors/other.htm

          • rhinocrates 1.3.1.2.2
            28 November 2017 at 1:04 pm

            David Farrar on Kiwiblog put the issue in quire a reasonable way

            Farrar? You say “reasonable” because it suits you. “Tendentious” and “disingenuous” are words that come to my mind. You know perfectly well that the Penguin never lets his hands get dirty in public and encourages his troll farm to do the dirty work for him.

            but some of the commenters on his site, not so much

            What a pity that because we lack your smarmy manners we’ll never be admitted to your gentleman’s club of “reasonable” men. Oh dear.

      • adam 1.3.2
        28 November 2017 at 11:18 am

        Come on wayne, we have all looked at the whale oil – we are far from that gutter.

        Have you ever put a comment there about the sexist, homophobic, and racist garbled crap that comes out of those sad excuses for human beings mouths?

        • rhinocrates 1.3.2.1
          28 November 2017 at 12:45 pm

          Wayne has never experienced racism or sexism directed against him personally and therefore it does not exist or at least is not significant.

      • Ed 1.3.3
        28 November 2017 at 5:01 pm

        If you can’t see why it’s unreasonable, you need help.

    • Draco T Bastard 1.4
      28 November 2017 at 11:04 am

      But in fact at the Rwandan Tribunal she was representing the war criminals in the genocide of around eight hundred thousand Tutsis. She complained about how poorly resourced the defence was. It was as though the United Nations didn’t really believe in the process, she opined.

      Ah, I see. He’s the type of person who thinks that people once accused of a crime shouldn’t have any defence and would probably do away with the trial altogether. And, once the trial is over and they’re found guilty, say that the lawyers who made up the defence team are just as bad as the ones found guilty.

      Yeah, got it.

    • mary_a 1.5
      28 November 2017 at 1:58 pm

      Ed (1) … proof Natz (through Joyce) still pulling the strings of msm, with NZH dredging up whatever is possible to smear the coalition government, regardless of how truthful or inconsequential it is!

      Golriz was doing her job, as most lawyers are expected to do. Look at Key’s former job as a currency trader. Bet some of the activity there wasn’t above board! Was that ever challenged by msm? No!

      Natz will give itself a breakdown at this rate!

  2. eco maori 2
    28 November 2017 at 7:09 am

    Congratulations to Prince Harry and Megan Markle for there engagement there wedding is good for OUR worlds society.
    I only advocate Vapours as a tool to give up smoking as I’m using Vapours to give up. The only thing we should be breathing into our lungs is clean air we need to set a age limit R 18 and a display/advertising restrictions to limit the appeal and take up of vaping by our youth. PS your a bit out numbered Hillary you need a lady friend on the breakfast show Ka Pai

    • adam 2.1
      28 November 2017 at 10:18 am

      Monarchy, we don’t need no stinking monarchy.

      • Macro 2.1.1
        28 November 2017 at 11:56 am

        But The Treaty adam is between Maori and the Monarchy – not the NZ Govt. This is an issue that if NZ were to progress towards complete independence from England would need to be resolved.

      • Tony Veitch (not etc) 2.1.2
        28 November 2017 at 1:06 pm

        Paraphrasing from ‘Blazing Saddles?’ lol

      • Cinny 2.1.3
        28 November 2017 at 6:46 pm

        I agree with your comment Adam, but I also have to say, it’s awesome when two people fall in love and get married for the right reasons, his mum would have be thrilled.

      • greywarshark 2.1.4
        28 November 2017 at 7:13 pm

        Give me monarchy not Trump or Key or Shipley. Let’s have the real thing not the nouveau riche.

        • solkta 2.1.4.1
          28 November 2017 at 7:27 pm

          You want a genuine old English German lady who thinks her shit don’t stink? WTF for?

          • greywarshark 2.1.4.1.1
            28 November 2017 at 7:47 pm

            She speaks more nicely than you. I like a bit of style in my leaders.

            • solkta 2.1.4.1.1.1
              28 November 2017 at 7:54 pm

              But she is no leader of ours. She has done absolutely nothing as our Head of State. She was very polite in how she told Maori to piss off when ask to have some honour and look at the treaty her institution signed.

              Oh, and i don’t want to be your leader.

    • Psych nurse 2.2
      28 November 2017 at 12:10 pm

      Ah but will she then be deported like all the other foreigners married to Brits.

  3. eco maori 3
    28 November 2017 at 7:18 am

    So your show is more gender equality Ka pai

    • cleangreen 3.1
      28 November 2017 at 8:08 am

      I now see that the national opposition is attempting to stall the new government’s plan to stop labour/NZF/Greens coalition “17 goals” and run then out of time, by jaming Labour with over 6200 “spam” questions.

      So Jacinda needs to show Government “leadership” and need to rush through an urgency bill to reverse the national party changes they (national) placed to allow this attempt to close down the new government, and restore the former system preventing this “tea party style” abuse of our parliamentary system..

      http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/11/how-the-government-s-tracking-on-its-100-day-plan.html

      “The Government is going all out to tick off all 17 goals on its 100-day plan.

      A hundred days. Just over three months. It sounds like plenty of time until you blink and realise a month has passed since the Government was sworn in. They have until February 3.”

      • garibaldi 3.1.1
        28 November 2017 at 8:26 am

        I think you are right cleangreen. It is time Ardern showed some steel and dealt with these National ratbags. There is nothing nice about the Natz, they are at war and need to be exposed for their spiteful anti democratic behaviour. New Zealanders deserve better.

        • cleangreen 3.1.1.1
          28 November 2017 at 10:14 am

          Yes garabaldi;

          https://www.parliament.nz/media/3552/2017-sitting-programme.pdf

          Labour coalition only have – 6th 7th 8th, – 12th, 13th, 14th December; – and the xmas party celebrations need to be be put in there somewhere we assume too.

          hey have their budget to release and befre 3rd February need to make good on the ’17 goals’ as the ‘100 day pledge’ to NZ.

          Labour have just six more days in parliament these emails this year, so we are screwed unless Jacinda can change the legislation today.

          Or else Labour are left bound up with these 6200 ‘spam’ emails now and labour now has no choice but to pass a ’emergency bill’ to stop “email spaming” forthwith.

          it is preventing government to function under legislation national passed. Remove all National legislation labour must in all areas also.

          I knew national would leave ‘hand grenades’ to stymie this new government so they need to remove all national toxic legislation now.

          • veutoviper 3.1.1.1.1
            28 November 2017 at 10:40 am

            That sitting calendar for 2017 is the one originally in place prior to the election and is now out of date.

            Following the swearing in of the new government a revised sitting programme for the remainder of 2017 was drawn up in conjunction with the proposed sitting calendar for 2018.

            https://www.parliament.nz/en/get-involved/features/sitting-calendar-proposed-for-2018/

            So Parliament will sit for the next four weeks from today, Tues 28 Nov through until 6pm Thurs, 21 December – not just the two weeks originally planned (6th 7th 8th, – 12th, 13th, 14th December).

            Is is highly likely that Parliament will also go into urgency in order to get the PPL legislative amendments through and possibly other legislative business prior to the Christmas/New Year close down – including possibly reversing some Nats legislation.

            • cleangreen 3.1.1.1.1.1
              28 November 2017 at 11:03 am

              Thanks for giving us the updated sitting schedules veutoviper,

              I went on the usual site but being that the new government had “a minefield” of changes that were needed to be made with the whole moviing of the old tired national mob out into the ‘lower government’ buildings and the new labour coalition Government newly placed on the ninth floor of the ‘Beehive building’.

              We know only to well how difficult that two weeks it took to get the new Government communications up and running.

              I understood all this as I was employed by the ‘fourth largest communication company globally’ (Bell) and used to place new systems in Government buildings also.

              As our many NGO emails went un-anwered for weeks until we got hold of a Government secretary and were told that a “new communication system was in the process of being installed” and they had problems, so I guess this is catch up time for all.

              • veutoviper …
                28 November 2017 at 11:45 am

                No problems, cleangreen.

                The Parliament website has actually been very quickly updated this round after the election. The new MPs were listed etc within a day of the election etc. and other needed amendments up very quickly.

                However, I did find it took a few minutes to relocate the link on the Parliament website to the revised sitting schedule for 2017. I knew that it had been changed but it was not immediately visible because it was included in the article re the proposed 2018 sitting programme.

                Having worked in government for many years in Wellington (including very closely working with and in the Parliament precinct), I am pretty sure the actual Parliament website (and related staff etc) would have been unaffected by the physical moves, changes to communications etc related to the change of government, relocation of MPs and parties. Fun days, but actually very much highly planned and managed chaos!

                • cleangreen …
                  28 November 2017 at 12:21 pm

                  veutoviper thanks for that.

                  All good now we need to ‘stand in line with national waiting for the reples from the 42 emails we have sent the new government’.

                  Now our NGO representing many communities wonder if the national email nonsene has now prevented the Labour coalition government from responding to other questions for the community also now?

                  So that puts the public interest now behind national party’s own interests, and that means national wont care about their own impact upon our communities interests?

                  Maybe national should have thought clearly how their ‘obstruction’ process over 6200 emails of questions was going to impact on all NZ communities.

      • Puckish Rogue 3.1.2
        28 November 2017 at 8:47 am

        Maybe the government could answer the questions properly: https://publicaddress.net/legalbeagle/questions-but-no-answers-with-thanks-to-david/

        • veutoviper 3.1.2.1
          28 November 2017 at 10:55 am

          An interesting take by the ever-pedantic Graeme Edgeler, but i also suggest people read the comments which put things into a bit more perspective in terms of National’s actions while in government. In particular, it is worth reading Katherine Moody’s comment here

          https://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/legal-beagle-questions-but-no-answers-with/?p=377313#post377313

          This includes a number of replies by Key and his ministers to very similar diary related questions while in government. The wording of these replies is not only similar to one another of these Nat Ministers, but also to that now being used by the new Labour/NZF/Green government Ministers.

          Examples:

          Hon Bill English (Minister of Finance) replied: As Minister of Finance I have a large number of meetings in Wellington and around New Zealand. I do not believe it is a good use of staff time to itemise my meetings or engagements, nor attempt to list the names of every person I met over the course of a month. If the member is interested in a specific issue or organisations then I might be able to provide more detailed information.

          Hon Steven Joyce (Minister for Economic Development) replied: I hold a large number of meetings both formally and informally each month with a wide range of people and discuss a wide range of topics. I do not consider it reasonable use of official’s time to provide the Member with a comprehensive list of all such meetings, nor is it feasible as the information requested is often not specifically captured by my records. If the Member could be more specific about a particular area of interest I would be happy to consider his request.

  4. Grey Area 4
    28 November 2017 at 8:00 am

    English just on on Morning Report claiming National had raised the bar for transparency in government over the past 9 years and that Labour needed to up their game as they were stuck in time a decade ago. LOL. This from the party that totally subverted the OIA request process over the past 9 years.

    Hypocrite.

    He was also asked if Smith was right in claiming National won the election. He wouldn’t say yes or no but his reply was something like “well we got the most votes
    and that’s really unusual”.

  5. Rosemary McDonald 5
    28 November 2017 at 8:09 am

    Okay, so I’m more than a tad uncomfortable with Ardern’s reluctance to release the 33/38 page coalition discussion document….

    But, but, Bill ‘the Lizard’ English’s sanctimonious prattle is genuine high end, puke making hypocrisy…. http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/344807/new-govt-has-no-follow-through-national

    “By any international standard the last government was open and transparent, and this government, as with many other things, has expressed these high-minded intentions and then fails to follow through.”

    Mr English said the previous National-led government lifted the bar a long way on transparency.

    “We stressed the early release of cabinet papers, the full release of budget documents, including draft reports which had not really been done before.

    “The extensive release of data because that’s such an important part of being able to monitor what a government is doing and how it is doing it.”

    This …. http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/ris/pdfs/ris-moh-fcc-may13.pdf Bill, is not ‘raising the bar’.

    PS….thinking that a ‘leftish’ government would be uncomfortable with such a heavily redacted justification for legislation that removed the rights of New Zealanders I did email the Head Office and requested that the blanked out bits of this document be revealed.

    Heard nothing yet. I guess they’re busy trying to spin not releasing documents their coalition partner said would be released.

    SSDD.

    • Puckish Rogue 5.1
      28 November 2017 at 8:49 am

      Well thats the thing isn’t it, you can say things in opposition that you can’t say or do when in power

      its easy to talk transperancy when you’re the opposition but a different story when you’re in power as Jacinda “transparent” Ardern is now discovering

      • cleangreen 5.1.1
        28 November 2017 at 9:26 am

        Puckish Rougue; –

        So the last Government (National) recieved 105 emails from our NGO over five years as I am secretary of it, and only two of the 63 National ministers only answered (on one small section of only of a small”side issue”.)

        Question
        1/ Is this because we are not officially a government agency but an NGO Puckish Rougue?

        And more to the point (PR) question two; –

        2/ Are we to expect the same from this new Labour lead government too (PR) Puckish Rouge; – or are you just another “PR” for the last corrupt government ?

        • Puckish Rogue 5.1.1.1
          28 November 2017 at 10:08 am

          I’d have thought that if you campaign on openness and transparency then you should be open and transparent when in power

          • adam 5.1.1.1.1
            28 November 2017 at 10:26 am

            And donkey did the same, and I did not see you complaining when he was not transparent.

            Just pointing out your hypocrisy Puckish Rogue, just your hypocrisy.

          • cleangreen 5.1.1.1.2
            28 November 2017 at 10:29 am

            Predictable reply from an ‘obstructionist’ so do us all a favour & get over loosing Puckish Rougue eh!

            You failed to answer question 1+2 I asked you; –

            Yet is it because you are you afraid too?

            If so then you are guilty of what you claim Labour coalition are guilty of , now that we clearly see you are doing now?

            So dont blame Labour for not answering your fabricated 6200 spam emails (PR).

            You are totally wrong if you think labour will be stymied by your oppostion party’s little plan as the labour coalition wont be stopped.

    • Grey Area 5.2
      28 November 2017 at 9:17 am

      Sitting on a 2016 report into the benefits of rail because it doesn’t fit with dinosaur National Party “thinking”, that’s being transparent.

      • cleangreen 5.2.1
        28 November 2017 at 9:39 am

        1000% Grey area.

        Rail is the enemy to a former national Government with a man running it (s joyce) who is rightly called “the tarseal king” who we believe he has interests in trucking we have been informed.

      • Cinny 5.2.2
        28 November 2017 at 6:47 pm

        + infinity Grey Area

  6. eco maori 6
    28 November 2017 at 8:15 am

    The show must go on I don’t see these people logic in following me around everywhere I go Im sure there are other people that deserve there attention. My neo liberal neighbour must have run out of fireworks you see there are a lot of these people in this little suburb they use fireworks to try and intimidat me. My dates were wrong it’s been 13 years of harassment from the Gisborne man and about 3 1/2 years that he landed his glider on the farm. The Rock one time I got challened to drink a jar of rum can’t remember what happened but a m8 told me I was getting a long with the best crayfishmans daughter lol the next time this guy 2 weeks before try to fight me I put him in his place he made out he was over it and his m8 challenged me to drink a jar of rum woke up the next morning broke ribbs squash nose this guy waited till I fell asleep and attacked me that was a good lesson I don’t get pissed and always have a gard up. Kia kaha

  7. Ad 7
    28 November 2017 at 8:29 am

    In Singapore, when the economy starts doing really well again, the public servants get a one month bonus:

    http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/civil-servants-to-get-one-months-year-end-bonus-as-economy-does-better

    All 84,000 civil servants will receive a year-end Annual Variable Component (AVC) of one month’s pay – higher than the 0.5 month they received in 2016, according to their Public Service Division.

    That would motivate those lovelies in MBIE and Treasury and DPMC to pull their finger out and make some serious moves.

  8. marty mars 8
    28 November 2017 at 8:34 am

    Probably this will blow up – I was a bit surprised that she was on the defense team.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11948524

    • Andre 8.1
      28 November 2017 at 9:20 am

      Have you read Andrew Geddis’ piece on Pundit?

      https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/did-golriz-ghahraman-do-anything-wrong

      That’s kinda the thing about human rights; even the worst of the bad guys have some. It’s part of the complexity of being a human rights lawyer that sometimes you’re defending them.

      • marty mars 8.1.1
        28 November 2017 at 9:36 am

        Thanks. I get human rights are universal and our system provides support for all sides and I struggle with it. I struggle that mass murderers get more rights than the many they murdered. I struggle that a sicko can do sicko things throughout their life and at the 11th hour have a big realisation and seek forgiveness. I struggle with these moral dilemmas.

        • Andre 8.1.1.1
          28 November 2017 at 9:51 am

          Working the defence is something I couldn’t do. My personal revulsion at someone’s deeds would really interfere with fulfilling my obligations to that person’s defence.

          Personally I’m of the opinion that someone that deliberately interferes with someone else’s human rights should forfeit their own. However, even in that mindset, there’s still the issue of determining what culpable deeds have actually been done. But as a general view, it’s at odds with the whole philosophical structure around justice that we’ve built up over time. And I’m really not interested in trying to think through the wrinkles of trying to replace that structure, especially since there’s no chance significant change will happen. At best there will be tinkering around the edges.

          • marty mars 8.1.1.1.1
            28 November 2017 at 9:58 am

            Yep I’m a bit like you on all that. I tend to imagine neutral is a fallacy in a lawyer anyway but compartmentalism isn’t.

          • RedLogix 8.1.1.1.2
            28 November 2017 at 10:05 am

            Without wanting to selectively misquote you:

            Personally I’m of the opinion that someone that deliberately interferes with someone else’s human rights should forfeit their own.

            as I think you clearly understand, the whole point of a trial is to determine culpability as an outcome, not as an apriori assumption. Or to put it in the more familiar parlance “innocent until proven guilty”.

            That’s not just a human right, it’s a very real protection we afford defendants due to the enormous disparity of resources between the state and the individual. From this came another famous legal dictum ‘that it’s better ten guilty people go free than one innocent person be convicted”. In other words it is a concious feature of our legal system to weight the odds in favour of the defendants. Even culpable ones.

            Part of the problem here is the internet has let us all indulge our fantasies of playing at judge, jury and executioner to the extent that these old and important ideas have become diminished, sometimes dismissed altogether.

            • marty mars 8.1.1.1.2.1
              28 November 2017 at 10:12 am

              They are just ideas not truths or absolutes, they are human conceived and made and thus are fallable and subjective.

              For instance, innocent until proven guilty etc is mocked by police and judicial discrimination based on skin colour!!!

            • Andre 8.1.1.1.2.2
              28 November 2017 at 10:14 am

              Those are all points that need to be repeatedly hammered, particularly with the likes of Quin that don’t get it.

              But I think your point below at 8.2 expresses a key idea most concisely: if the accused doesn’t have a capable defense team, then the whole process lacks legitimacy. In that context, the defense is just as important as the prosecution for delivering justice. For the victims as well as broader society.

        • Molly 8.1.1.2
          28 November 2017 at 11:19 am

          There is also the idea, that the defense is as robust and lawful as possible, reducing the chance of a mistrial or a later successful appeal.

          The justice system needs to be robust and competent and lawyers with integrity on both sides will improve it.

    • RedLogix 8.2
      28 November 2017 at 9:32 am

      Her final quote nails it:

      Ghahraman said she has never met Quin, but that his comments showed “an embarrassing lapse in understanding”.

      “No one is saying there is no such thing as genocide. It’s like saying a defence lawyer [defending someone charged with murder] in our justice system here is a murder-denier.

      The whole point is that in order for a trial to have any legitimacy it’s essential for the defendants to have access to a legal defense. Someone has to do this. Quin’s failure to understand is not just embarrassing, it’s kind of chilling.

      • Muttonbird 8.2.1
        28 November 2017 at 9:58 am

        Very odd. His point seems to be that defence lawyers somehow endorse their client’s alleged crimes and that to be a defence lawyer you mustn’t have strong morals.

        Quin seems a vindictive type and I suspect he’s jealous of other’s achievements.

        • marty mars 8.2.1.1
          28 November 2017 at 10:08 am

          He seems unhappy with the website info where it played up certain aspects.

          • Muttonbird 8.2.1.1.1
            28 November 2017 at 10:28 am

            I read the opposite. That he didn’t have much problem with the green website (I did read that somewhere but can’t find it), but that she chose to work on the defence team saying, “of all the ways to save the world, she chose to send killers back to the villages where their victims’ families are trying to rebuild their lives.”

            He must find all defence work reprehensible.

        • RedLogix 8.2.1.2
          28 November 2017 at 10:12 am

          Most likely Quin has just picked up the ‘doofus of the week’ award off Nick Smith, but it’s an especially bizarre charge to lay against her, given what I personally understand of Gharaman’s family story,

      • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.2
        28 November 2017 at 9:59 am

        It’s kind of right wing nut job.

      • marty mars 8.2.3
        28 November 2017 at 10:05 am

        What about mob lawyers – are they just giving their clients a fair go. Lawyers are just like other people – fallable, greedy, stupid and selfish – and with all the qreat qualities too, like compassion.

        I get the system and I find it challenging as well.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 8.2.3.1
          28 November 2017 at 10:11 am

          ‘Everyone’ hates defence lawyers until they’re accused of something.

        • RedLogix 8.2.3.2
          28 November 2017 at 10:19 am

          All those things may well be true in general marty, but in this instance it’s was a young barrister doing tough work, (pro bono IIRC) in a tough environment for all the right reasons.

          Indeed that’s the main focus of the interview; the vast gulf between the realities on the ground in Rwanda and NZ.

          • marty mars 8.2.3.2.1
            28 November 2017 at 10:26 am

            There are lots of jobs I couldn’t and wouldn’t do and I have some admiration and at least respect for those that can, even with the personal cost that this must entail for them. This is one of those cases.

        • Macro 8.2.3.3
          28 November 2017 at 12:08 pm

          Marty is it ok for a lawyer to work for a company that sells a legal product that has lead to the death of millions world wide?

          • marty mars 8.2.3.3.1
            28 November 2017 at 12:28 pm

            I think moral questions are often the most intellectually interesting.

            I think yes and also no if they ignored evidence in their defence/legal/work with the company to ensure the company could continue to make profit. Hard to prove though ☺

            • Macro 8.2.3.3.1.1
              28 November 2017 at 12:47 pm

              But isn’t that the task of lawyers working for a company to protect the “rights” of the company to sell it’s wares? And you are aware that National’s Chris Bishop worked for Phillip Morris?
              And the task of a defence lawyer is to protect the rights of their client – no matter how heinous their crime may have been.
              Should a rapist be given a fair trial or a paedophile? Of course they must -otherwise our society descends into lawlessness, such as was the case in Rwanda. If the accused were to receive no defence, then the subsequent conviction would have no more merit than the summary justice they metered out to those they slaughtered.

              • marty mars …
                28 November 2017 at 1:02 pm

                Yes I understand all that and I still find it morally murky for me.

                • Macro …
                  28 November 2017 at 2:41 pm

                  Unfortunately Marty – as G.E. Moore (a late British Philosopher) explained “goodness” is like “redness” – it is a simple concept that cannot be broken down into constituent parts. Either you perceive redness or you don’t.
                  I can only say that by their actions you shall know them. Does Gloriz act in a good way or a bad way? Having met her and seen the work she has done (not only acting as a defence lawyer) she is a good person – as are all the Green MPs.
                  I hope that is of some help.

      • Grantoc 8.2.4
        28 November 2017 at 11:15 am

        I agree with your comments about legal process Redlogix.

        But Im not sure though if thats the issue here. Isn’t it that Ghahraman and the Greens deliberately fudged her role in the Riwanda war crimes legal process so that the punters would assume that she was on the side of the angels; not the devils, so to speak.

        Therein lies her and the Greens problem.

        • Macro 8.2.4.1
          28 November 2017 at 12:58 pm

          She was perfectly open about what her role was in Rwanda before the Election – because she was a Green candidate – such news was decided not to be published by the MSM – because of “lack of space”. Well I guess it’s much more important to tell us about Bill’s smile

    • Puckish Rogue 8.3
      28 November 2017 at 10:17 am

      I have no problems with her being on the defense team though why you’d volunteer is beyond me but her profile page on the Green website was, at best, misleading:

      “Golriz has lived and worked in Africa, The Hague and Cambodia, putting on trial world leaders for abusing their power.”

      Says nothing about defending world leaders either and she herself says “could be clearer”

      • adam 8.3.1
        28 November 2017 at 10:23 am

        How those panama papers working out Puckish Rouge? Or the polls buddy? How many more lies do we have to suffer though? Oh wait – you could just revert to type as a racist we all know you are…

        Still spinning and lying I see – Oh well can’t be helped, I suppose. It’s what you do.

      • lprent 8.3.2
        28 November 2017 at 11:36 am

        “Golriz has lived and worked in Africa, The Hague and Cambodia, putting on trial world leaders for abusing their power.”
        Says nothing about defending world leaders either and she herself says “could be clearer”

        Completely irrelevant. How long is the bio? A few paragraphs?

        When I do my three page CV I barely touch the surface of anything on my work history. You’re looking at what I did ina company for 2-4 or even 11 years in a single paragraph. It was like that from when I was 26. By that time I’d had a 10 year work history and several degrees. It had skim paragraphs about time in the army, working as a farm hand, as a barman, a factory machine operator, technical salesman, factory manager, and computer support.

        If you want to be be a idiot, then go ahead. Just don’t be surprised if people sum up your CV as “FOOL”

      • Macro 8.3.3
        28 November 2017 at 12:12 pm

        And we have a lawyer in Parliament who worked for a tobacco company….
        (tobacco related deaths are around 5 million per year)
        http://www.who.int/tobacco/publications/surveillance/fact_sheet_mortality_report.pdf?ua=1

  9. Sparky 9
    28 November 2017 at 8:41 am

    This caught my attention. Not sure why they feel we need more cops but anyway…..

    https://www.rt.com/news/411027-new-zealand-police-recruitment-video/

  10. Bill 10
    28 November 2017 at 8:45 am

    US is seeking the extradition of a British guy (Lauri) for stuff English courts didn’t lay charges over. And apparently …

    The US government know that their claims against Lauri will never be tested in court. The way extradition works means that prosecutors do not have to show any evidence to the British authorities. And because those US prosecutors reserve the right to try Lauri three times, in three different districts, with a potential sentence of 99 years, they know he would be under enormous pressure to accept a plea bargain.

    Ninety-seven per cent of federal defendants in the United States never get a trial because they are offered a choice of either accepting years in prison if they plead guilty or risking decades to have their day in court. What Lauri is being offered in the United States is not a trial but blackmail with a potential life sentence attached.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lauri-love-hacker-activist-prison-sentence-extradition-america-aspergers-autism-death-sentence-a8076541.html

  11. Morrissey 11
    28 November 2017 at 9:27 am

    GROVEL.
    State-sponsored adulation of shepherd-murderer moves into overdrive
    Tuesday 28 November 2017

    RNZ National, 7:24 a.m.
    GUYON ESPINER: …. [drily amused] I’ve been taken to task for asking what Harry’s going to wear.
    SUSIE FERGUSON: It’ll be a uniform, of course!
    GUYON ESPINER: Of course it will. ….. [grovel, grovel…]

    three, a.m. show, 7:25 a.m.
    DUNCAN GARNER: Royal correspondent Dicky Arbiter, good morning!
    DICKY ARBITER: [beaming] The Twitter universe has come alight! …[widens his eyes to indicate his great joy]… Like any young couple in love, they’re not hiding their love for each other!
    AMANDA GILLIES: She wore a BEAUTIFUL new coat, designed by Line the Label. What does this mean for dress designers in the U.K.?….[grovel]….
    DICKY ARBITER: They’ll look on her as they did Harry’s mother—as a clothes horse rather than a work horse. They do a tremendous amount of good work; let’s focus on what they DO rather than on what they wear, for a change.
    DUNCAN GARNER: Yeah, I’m WITH you on this!
    DICKY ARBITER: [worshipfully] Harry was a soldier. He was at the sharp end in Afghanistan. …. The couple meeting and they see each other across a crowded room, and that’s IT!… They just clicked, just like a jigsaw puzzle. … Younger people see them as role models. ….

    7:52 a.m.
    DUNCAN GARNER: Are you interested in the royal engagement? Some of you are. Some of you aren’t at all! That’s next!

    …Advertisements (paid ones, not free ones for the Royal Family)….

    7:54 a.m.
    DUNCAN GARNER: Okay, welcome back. So much feedback for the royal wedding!

    MARK RICHARDSON: Prince Harry was happy before this American came along. Well maybe not happy, but he was having a good time.

    AMANDA: He wasn’t happy, he’s said that.

    DUNCAN GARNER: Our poll question this morning is: “Do you care about the royal engagement between Prince Harry and Mehan Markle?” Well, not everybody does, it seems. Stuey says: “There are lots of unsung heroes in the community. He’s a privileged pillock and welfare beneficiary.”

    The others in the studio—Gillies, Richardson, and social presenter Shannon Redstall—titter with pity and amusement.

    DUNCAN GARNER: The woooorld of Stuey! I tell you what, Stuey, you can be the producer for the next sixty-threee minutes, and you can decide what’s going to be on the television.

    8:02 a.m.
    DUNCAN GARNER: Coming up on our panel is Rawdon Christie, broadcaster and royalist. We’ll be talking about Prince Harry, because Stuey hasn’t had enough of that yet…

    8:35 a.m.
    DUNCAN GARNER: All right, some things we don’t know about Meghan Markle. Everybody’s talking about this right now! …She has two adopted dogs, Bogart and, and….
    AMANDA GILLIES: Guy.
    DUNCAN GARNER: Yes! You know that? …. Mark, you seem sad.
    MARK RICHARDSON: He was my guy. He was my royal guy!

    8:42 a.m.
    DUNCAN GARNER: We can’t get away from royal news today! It appears the royal couple may be related….

    https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08122014/#comment-936838

    • Grey Area 11.1
      28 November 2017 at 10:12 am

      I think you’ll find it was Mihinirangi Forbes.

      • Morrissey 11.1.1
        28 November 2017 at 4:25 pm

        Thank you, it was Mihi Forbes. That slurping and licking sound coming from Espiner’s microphone somewhat diverted my attention.

        • Morrissey 11.1.1.1
          28 November 2017 at 4:50 pm

          The groveling continues….

          Jim MORA: What is it about this union that makes people so joyful? Is there hope for the world in it, or what?

          …..extended groveling from Mora and his two Panelists continues for three minutes….

          The Panel, RNZ National, 4:46 p.m.

  12. cleangreen 12
    28 November 2017 at 9:51 am

    Awesome transcribing there Morrissey,

    Is that done by electronic voice recognition or done manually by you?

    I as a secretary need the program if it is done electronically.

  13. Morrissey 13
    28 November 2017 at 9:51 am

    GROPERS
    No. 12: Prince Harry

    Groping in England….

    Prince Harry has been photographed groping and kissing girls in a London nightclub. Britain’s The Sun newspaper printed pictures – taken earlier this summer – of Harry and his brother Prince William, partying at London’s Boujis nightclub. … He had his hands all over her and was kissing her on the face. At one point he reached his arm around her and gave her a proper grope on her breast. ….
    http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/royal_family/Britains+Prince+Harry-22051.html

    Groping and snorting in Las Vegas…

    The giggling prince’s demeanour here is a world away from his attitude following the firestorm of controversy that engulfed him after his fun and games in his hotel room. He and his friends took over a £1,000-a-day VIP bungalow at the MGM Grand Hotel for one of its infamous Wet Republic pool parties.

    These raucous alcohol-fuelled events are popular in Vegas and involve several thousand young people attempting to get as drunk as humanly possible while pulling members of the opposite sex in the fierce sunshine.

    By the end of the day, say those with intimate knowledge of such events, the pools contain more urine than water and couples are openly having sex.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194207/Intimate-pictures-Prince-Harrys-wild-weekend-Vegas.html

    “GROPERS” is presented by GroperWatch, a division of Daisycutter Sports Inc.
    No.1 George Herbert Walker Bush; No. 2 Bill O’Reilly; No. 3 Al Franken; No. 4 Robin Brooke; No. 5 Lester Beck; No. 6 Arnold Schwarzenegger; No. 7 Joe Biden; No. 8 Rolf Harris; No. 9 Harold Bloom; No. 10 Sir Jimmy Savile; No. 11 Dr Morgan Fahey

    • ThatcherForEver 13.1
      28 November 2017 at 10:32 am

      Shit, now using The Sun and Daily Mail as your news sources….

      • Morrissey 13.1.1
        28 November 2017 at 4:23 pm

        Putting aside their smirking and winking approval of Prince Harry’s appalling behaviour, what is inaccurate in either of those accounts?

    • cleangreen 13.2
      28 November 2017 at 10:47 am

      Morrissey,

      You have great memory recall; – I guess nmy chemical poisoning back in 1992 while last working in Canada hurt my brain as I now have poor memory recall.

      Especially if I now get exposed to some perfume’s, diesel exhaust, synthetic rubber smells, and many others.

      That is why I love things to be ‘cleangreen’.

      So I need to use a tape recording and a “very patient wife of 45 yrs” to transcribe the event. (she is my one love, – once married; – us both)

      Thanks for all that information morrissey.

    • Psycho Milt 13.3
      28 November 2017 at 10:52 am

      If you’re going to run this series, you really ought to read up a little about “consent” – what it means and how it might be relevant to these posts. Because otherwise you could just end up looking like a grumpy old man who needs to get laid.

      • cleangreen 13.3.1
        28 November 2017 at 11:18 am

        Shit Psycho Milt,

        Thats a bit harsh on Morrissey,

        I find his scribbing of public affairs issues quite refreshing.

        Especially since the ‘media’ fail to cover ‘in depth’ public affairs issues today Morrissey is trying to expose them in a transcibed way and if the persons involved dont like their words repeated were are we left then????

        Democracy is born from free speech.

        • ThatcherForEver 13.3.1.1
          28 November 2017 at 11:53 am

          His sources include “The Sun” and “The Daily Mail”.
          Geat “credible” sources of info.
          Interesting how the Left like to lambast the media; until a story is published that suits their way of thinking

        • Psycho Milt 13.3.1.2
          28 November 2017 at 12:30 pm

          Different Morrissey comment, Cleangreen. This is the one about gropers, not the radio transcript.

          My issue with it is it makes no case for the sexual activity being non-consensual and yet lumps it in with the activities of people like Rolf Harris and Jimmy Saville. What makes a “groper” is lack of consent, not the fact of touching someone.

      • Morrissey 13.3.2
        28 November 2017 at 4:19 pm

        Fair comment, Milt, assuming Prince Harry respected the women he groped. I find that highly unlikely. The women seemed to be initially upset but were eventually flustered into smiling and accepting the mistreatment. Donald Trump and Harvey Weinstein indulged in similar behaviour, and their victims were socialized into grinning and bearing it, or simply keeping quiet.

        • Psycho Milt 13.3.2.1
          28 November 2017 at 4:20 pm

          Who gives a rat’s ass whether he respected them? Get hold of a dictionary and look up the word “consent” before you go posting about it.

          • Morrissey 13.3.2.1.1
            28 November 2017 at 4:29 pm

            Sure, give that coke-snorting lout the benefit of the doubt if you want. You think someone who kills shepherds from the sanctuary of a helicopter gunship, then soaks up the adulation of the Murdoch press which dubbed him “The Big H”, gropes only willing women at those orgies.

            I have a bridge to sell you if you’re interested.

  14. joe90 14
    28 November 2017 at 11:55 am

    Addled dotard shows his condescending racist slip.

    President Trump: "We have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her 'Pocahontas.'" pic.twitter.com/9zML2RVFtP— CSPAN (@cspan) November 27, 2017

    https://twitter.com/cspan/status/935240893187198976

    WASHINGTON—For a year and a half, President Donald Trump has been denounced by Native American leaders for calling Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren “Pocahontas.”

    He just did it again — at an event honouring Native American war heroes.

    Trump held a White House ceremony on Monday to celebrate Navajo “code talkers,” who used their language to transmit secret messages during the Second World War. After complimenting the code talkers, Trump said, “You were here long before any of us were here. Although we have a representative in Congress who they say was here a long time ago. They call her Pocahontas.”

    […]

    The jab at Warren was not the only part of the Monday event that was called offensive. Trump decided to make the speech in front of a portrait of president Andrew Jackson, who is notorious among Native Americans for signing the 1830 Indian Removal Act that forced Natives off of their land and produced thousands of deaths.

    Trump also referred to his chief of staff John Kelly as “the chief.” And he suggested he was not personally familiar with the history of the code talkers.

    “And I have to say, I said to General Kelly, I said, general, how good — here he is, right there, the chief; he’s the general and the chief — I said, how good were these code talkers?” he said.

    Kelly’s response, according to Trump: “Sir, you have no idea. You have no idea how great they were.”

    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/11/27/trump-just-called-elizabeth-warren-pocahontas-at-an-event-honouring-native-american-war-heroes.html

  15. greywarshark 15
    28 November 2017 at 1:12 pm

    Glyphosate. Another 5 years for it as part of Roundup by the EU on the basis of it possibly being carcinogenic but one can’t be sure till enough people die.
    It came up after WW2, where chemicals were used regularly to deadly effect.

    Glyphosate was first synthesized in 1950 by Swiss chemist Henry Martin, who worked for the Swiss company Cilag. The work was never published.[18]:1 Stauffer Chemical patented the agent as a chemical chelator in 1964 as it binds and removes minerals such as calcium, magnesium, manganese, copper, and zinc.[19]

    The European Chemicals Agency (ECHA) maintained their current classification of glyphosate as a substance causing serious eye damage and as a substance toxic to aquatic life, but did not find evidence implicating it to be a carcinogen, a mutagen, toxic to reproduction, nor toxic to specific organs.[17]

    Monsanto’s last commercially relevant United States patent expired in 2000….
    Farmers quickly adopted glyphosate, especially after Monsanto introduced glyphosate-resistant Roundup Ready crops, enabling farmers to kill weeds without killing their crops. In 2007, glyphosate was the most used herbicide in the United States’ agricultural sector and the second-most used in home and garden (2,4-D being the most used)…

    In many cities, glyphosate is sprayed along the sidewalks and streets, as well as crevices in between pavement where weeds often grow. However, up to 24% of glyphosate applied to hard surfaces can be run off by water….

    In 2015, 89% of corn, 94% of soybeans, and 89% of cotton produced in the United States were genetically modified to be herbicide-tolerant….

    Use of glyphosate to clear milkweed along roads and fields may have contributed to a decline in monarch butterfly populations in the Midwestern United States.[172] Along with deforestation and adverse weather conditions,[173] the decrease in milkweed contributed to an 81% decline in monarchs.[174][175] The Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) filed a suit in 2015 against the EPA, in which it is argued that the agency ignored warnings about the dangers of glyphosate usage for monarchs.[176]…
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyphosate

    (No heading for honey bees though)- so :
    http://www.glyphosate.news/2016-06-27-study-shows-honeybees-are-starving-because-of-roundup.html
    and
    https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/11/03/glyphosate-is-no-bee-killer/
    and
    https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/why-honeybees-dont-have-a-chance-in-the-midst-of-pesticides_us_58c1ec02e4b0c3276fb7831c
    and
    https://phys.org/news/2015-10-glyphosate-acetamiprid-toxicity-honey-bees.html

    Seems like they are prepared to throw stuff at bees and as long as they keep flying, then the bad individual or combined effects of these chemicals is downplayed.

    Then on Radionz we are suffering from leptospirosis which there have been another 93 in NZ for half the year. On and on and our environment and health constantly compromised.

  16. beatie 16
    28 November 2017 at 1:24 pm

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11947570

    More ‘blame the victim’ bullshit. Apparently throwing more money at beneficiaries won’t help. Why not? It helps everyone else.

    • greywarshark 16.1
      28 November 2017 at 5:43 pm

      The NZ Initiative a RW thinktank. And lying in heaps.
      (Looking at the link that beatie gives above.) They present themselves as cool and rational and informed. They cherry pick the information they disseminate. They quote macro information, quote averages, and then present us with little direct information about individual groups.

      With double the income-per-person than what was in 1970, a minimum wage up 50 per cent (inflation adjusted) and better medical care boosting life expectancy and reducing child mortality, you’d think New Zealand would be in its heyday.

      It sounds good – double the income of 1970 – how was the inflation adjustment done, what was the base line, apples with apples? Housing has gone up horrendously since 1970, rentals are up, accommodation supplement always trails and the system is its own moral hazard. So that wouldn’t be rosy, but it isn’t mentioned. Instead we hear about child mortality, a nationwide measure, and life expectancy which is a population measure that is of vague concern to someone trying to manage on a pension.

      Dr Bryce Wilkinson is just another RW fellow traveller packing a good story against beneficiaries whose opinion and solutions are discounted when pitted against a comfortable professional RW bottom, or even an erect spinal column of bias which is the healthy method of IT work now; (standing, perhaps they could let Peter try it out).

      [Peter] has experience in technology and IT but isn’t able to sit in an office chair for longer than three minutes without getting excruciating pain.
      “They should do a proper work assessment to see what my experience is and what jobs I can do based on my ability. I’m happy to work from home,” Peter said.
      “To me they’re just trying to save costs without any care for the long-term solutions for the beneficiary.”

      Wilkinson said a beneficiary’s shortage of money was a symptom rather than a cause of poverty. Instead efforts needed to be made to address drug addiction, alcoholism, mental illness, low skills, poor parenting and a lack of understanding of work habits.
      Policies that increase job and income growth must be valued to complement welfare. The report stated the welfare system should “nourish rather than smother self-help”.
      “State welfare support is a balancing act. A good system must guard against beneficiaries who could work but do not. This is a waste of human potential and an unwarranted burden on their fellow citizens.”

      One notices, one does, the little homily at the end from the stern but just and prudent arbiter of these lives of people who are faulty and unable to take advantage of opportunities that are commonly available, for those who have the ability to exert themselves./sarc

      The slimy words of callous, self-centred people are for the purpose of impressing their peer group in society, as to whose fault it is that ‘these people’ are languishing out there. However the dossier that TS has built up over the years gives us examples that ensure we understand the problem in the round, the whole vicious circle that ensures that the welfare system doesn’t work, because the RW don’t want a good, working, society of happy people. Such people are harder to squeeze the last juice out of.

  17. joe90 17
    28 November 2017 at 1:38 pm

    RWNJ pays a woman to pretend to be a victim of sexual assault in an effort to discredit reporting about the sexual assault of women and girls.

    Take a bow filth, that really does take the biscuit.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/a-woman-approached-the-post-with-dramatic–and-false–tale-about-roy-moore-sje-appears-to-be-part-of-undercover-sting-operation/2017/11/27/0c2e335a-cfb6-11e7-9d3a-bcbe2af58c3a_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.e4b342b2a612

  18. piper 18
    28 November 2017 at 3:18 pm

    Its now settling down now,holiday time ,to respect our coalition government,as others chance to talk about democracy,as three political parties say, this is our march to our lands care.

  19. piper 19
    28 November 2017 at 3:27 pm

    Who in the national party,is going to release the conversations with New Zealand First,who they attempted to negotiate a control deal.

    • weka 19.1
      28 November 2017 at 3:45 pm

      good point.

    • NewsFlash 19.2
      28 November 2017 at 6:24 pm

      The 38 page doco that the Nats are trying to obtain from the Coalition has been reduced to 33 pages because someone changed the FONT size!!!

    • Cinny 19.3
      28 November 2017 at 7:17 pm

      I reckon the only reason the nats want to see it is because they want to know why and how they missed out, they just aren’t handling losing the election very well at all.

  20. piper 20
    28 November 2017 at 4:14 pm

    Time the duck,to say,open debate,speakers are open to say,under discrection.However,general debate,is not allowed with notes.

  21. greywarshark 21
    28 November 2017 at 4:56 pm

    It’s funny (strange) how so many are going through this small item from Golriz sieving it word by word like someone panning for gold.

    Yet Key was here for decades and I don’t think anyone went through his past sorting out where his money actually came from. Did anyone actually know how much he made from selling out a day before… from buying a penthouse that was being rezoned …. from not paying his full tax or by selling a day after the withholding period… etc. And it seemed to be his money that was the main attraction, that gave him gravitas. Once he had that it was such a laugh that he was okay, so free to not care about cheeky comments about peeing in the shower and other things like sitting in a cage with a jerk and a microphone.

    • Ed 21.1
      28 November 2017 at 5:21 pm

      I think was liked the powerful finance industry that owns NZ’s corporate media.
      He was a useful puppet for them

      Golriz isn’t.

  22. Ffloyd 22
    28 November 2017 at 6:08 pm

    Is anyone allowed to ask English what the contents of his 200 or so texts to his lady friend were about. I am sure Nz ers want to know. In the interest of transparency and all.

    • Anne 22.1
      28 November 2017 at 6:28 pm

      But Floyd those texts (270 odd wasn’t it) were to do with his electorate – sort of like the electronic equivalent of “notes” between him and his local secretary. He didn’t believe they came under the auspices of the OIA. Now, someone else has said that just in the last 24 hrs. Oh that’s right, the Prime Minister. I guess she has taken her cue from the previous Prime Minister.

  23. eco maori 23
    28 November 2017 at 7:29 pm

    Many thanks to all the teachers in NZ you have a very important job and I take my hat off to uses Ka pai

  24. piper 24
    28 November 2017 at 8:04 pm

    Bill,cleaned up.

  25. David Mac 25
    28 November 2017 at 9:30 pm

    Lets give im a good kickin then make him shout.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  26. Antoine 26
    28 November 2017 at 10:52 pm

    While we’re talking about Ms Ghahraman, my other problem with her is that she is a refugee who seeks to bring in more refugees. Feels a bit like a Trojan Horse scenario

    A.

    [TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]

  27. Tanz 27
    29 November 2017 at 12:32 am

    There is a reason that the Greens almost halved their voter support and lost seats this election…fringe party lunacy, shows what a bastard and undemocratic system MMP is (Winston 2017 may be the straw that broke the MMP back…eventually, and finally). Just as ex National MP Shane Ardern..

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Decision allows for housing growth in Western Bay of Plenty
    The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago

  • Speech to New Zealand China Council
    Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today.    Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    11 hours ago

  • Modern insurance law will protect Kiwi households
    The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Government recommits to equal pay
    The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says.  “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Transforming how our children learn to read
    Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.  “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • NZ not backing down in Canada dairy dispute
    Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Stronger oversight for our most vulnerable children
    The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago

  • Streamlining Building Consent Changes
    The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says.      “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)
    New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...
    Good evening –   Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Accelerating airport security lines
    From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Community hui to talk about kina barrens
    People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Kiwi exporters win as NZ-EU FTA enters into force
    Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Mining resurgence a welcome sign
    There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill passes first reading
    The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Government to boost public EV charging network
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure.  The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Residential Property Managers Bill to not progress
    The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Independent review into disability support services
    The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Justice Minister updates UN on law & order plan
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Ending emergency housing motels in Rotorua
    The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago

  • Trade Minister travels to Riyadh, OECD, and Dubai
    Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Education priorities focused on lifting achievement
    Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • NZTA App first step towards digital driver licence
    The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say.  “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Supporting whānau out of emergency housing
    Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Tribute to Dave O'Sullivan
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Speech – Eid al-Fitr
    Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Government saves access to medicines
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff.    “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago

  • Pharmac Chair appointed
    Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago

  • Taking action on Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder
    Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says.  “Every day, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • New sports complex opens in Kaikohe
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Diplomacy needed more than ever
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges.    “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address, Buttes New British Cemetery Belgium
    Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service.  It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address – NZ National Service, Chunuk Bair
    Distinguished guests -   It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders.   Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address – Dawn Service, Gallipoli, Türkiye
    Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia.   Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • PM announces changes to portfolios
    Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • New catch limits for unique fishery areas
    Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Minister welcomes hydrogen milestone
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Urgent changes to system through first RMA Amendment Bill
    The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Overseas decommissioning models considered
    Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • Release of North Island Severe Weather Event Inquiry
    Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

Page generated in The Standard by Wordpress at 2024-05-03T08:10:26+00:00