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Open mike 30/09/2019

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, September 30th, 2019 - 96 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

96 comments on “Open mike 30/09/2019 ”

  1. (given fonterra is our biggest polluter – it is the elephant we must wrestle..

    this is a tidy summary of some of the issues with them..)

    [Source link: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/09/28/dear-nz-dairy-farmers-let-me-see-if-i-can-get-this-completely-straight/#comment-476731 ]

    With farmers you’re dealing with a settler mentality of working the land and a righteous sense of hard work and purpose. Its very hard to shift and is aligned with the ‘farmer friendly’ Tory party from the beginning of this colonised nation.

    All farmland is stolen land from Maori and this is yet another factor in the farmer’s settler mentality that coincides with the Tory worldview; racist and privileged.

    Green pasture livestock farming is the visible face of colonisation and environmental destruction.

    All once pristine forest with birdsong, is now stripped bare monocultured paddocks and erosion prone slopes populated with greenhouse gas and nitrogen spewing ruminant animals that are bred for a life of suffering and misery as they are forcefully impregnated (raped) and then have their babies ripped from them for pet food whilst we steal their baby’s milk, and then in turn after their exhausted bodies give out they are mercilessly and thanklessly sent to slaughter — whilst the propaganda machine rolls on telling us its all good for the economy, good for rugby, good for our diets, good for our standing in the world as a leading food producer for the millions now suffering from diabetes, obesity and other Western diseases they never knew before all of this.

    And, of course, its all good for the pockets of the managerial elites, advertising companies, sports celebrities and Tory politicians propogating this existential nightmare.

    (quite a few forces to wrestle with there..eh….?…what to do..?…)

    [Phil, I have put the quoted text as a block quote to make it clearer that the whole segment is a verbatim quote. You must always acknowledge the source, one way or another, and I have added the source link. Just adding piddly “speech-marks” is not enough to avoid accusations of plagiarism, which is intellectual theft. Please don’t this again – Incognito]

    • Adrian Thornton 1.1

      Great Monday morning soapbox (in the good way)…get on the soapbox I say!, thanks.

    • solkta 1.2

      All farmland is stolen land from Maori

      That is just not true. Most yes, but there is no need to get ridiculously simplistic in our historical understanding.

      • phillip ure 1.2.1

        unless you follow the (australian) excuse of terra nullus – all of nz was 'stolen' from maori – surely..?

        but anyway – if we change the 'all' to 'most' you are happy with the rest..?

        • solkta 1.2.1.1

          I agree with the general thrust of your post. There was however some land willingly sold by Maori. Maori could see that limited immigration was in their best interests. They needed capital to buy guns and European sailing ships and other technologies. It was when they realised that the British would not take "no" as an answer to further land purchases that the situation changed.

          The legal concept of Terra Nullius could not be used here as the land was clearly "settled" by European understanding.

          • marty mars 1.2.1.1.1

            Your understanding is one angle.

            In 1840, Lieutenant William Hobson, following instructions of the British government, pronounced the southern island of New Zealand to be uninhabited by civilized peoples, which qualified the land to be terra nullius, and therefore fit for the Crown's political occupation. Hobson's decision was also influenced by a small party of French settlers heading towards Akaroa on Banks Peninsula to settle in 1840.[26]

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius

            • solkta 1.2.1.1.1.1

              South Island? That's another country isn't it?

              But seriously, it looks like the British were having a bob each way to be sure to head the French off. Your link mentions that the French were already settling in Akaroa. While they made a claim to the South Island under Terra Nullius this is not what they actually did in practice. The British offered and signed the Treaty with Ngai Tahu. This was a recognition of their sovereignty as offering the English version asked Maori to cede sovereignty over their territories. The British then recognised Ngai Tahu title to most of the South Island as they set about to purchase that land from them (be it through some very dodgy practices).

              This site shows those land purchases: https://teara.govt.nz/en/interactive/36363/maori-land-loss-south-island

    • AB 1.3

      "What to do?"

      Make the concept of the "just transition" central to every discussion. When Bernie Sanders talks to coal miners he doesn't blame them for digging the stuff up – he reassures them that they will not suffer terrifying economic stress and failure. Capitalism's normal way of dealing with sudden change is to throw the weak and the losers to the economic wolves while the winners make out like bandits. People need reassuring that this won't be allowed to happen.

      • phillip ure 1.3.1

        @ ab..i agree..

        and i don't blame farmers for buying into the bullshit they were fed by clark govt followed even more by key – the white-gold expansion-myths they both peddled…

        and of course the banks who lined up to throw money at them – to follow this economic-fantasy…

        and animal-extraction 'farmers' need to transition to growing actual food…

        and their 'transition' is/will be one of the most complex..

        (and one of the reasons i have been shouting about this – is that i am/have been dismayed by the amount of treaty settlement money that has been pissed away on this economic-folly…all on a road to nowhere..)

    • New view 1.4

      Phillip Since large chunks of your comment seems to have been stolen from Paul Judge who commented in the dairy farming Blog on “the daily blog” on the 28th you should be the last person to talk about stealing things.or have I got that wrong.

    • Incognito 1.5

      See my Moderation note @ 8:56 AM.

    • @ incognito..

      i object to being accused of plagiarism..

      if i state 'this is a tidy summary'…and put it in speech-marks..(however 'piddly'..)

      how on earth can i be accused of plagiarism..?

      that is two 'acknowledgements' that the opinion is not mine..

      and is it not accepted practice that speech-marks are signifying the words of others..?

      when did that change..?

      • Incognito 1.6.1

        Hi Phil, it was New view @ 1.4 and @ 1.4.1.1 who accused of stealing because you gave no credit to the original source or creator. I tend to agree with New view but because it might have been an honest mistake I let you off the hook with a warning only. I also explained to you that using “speech-marks” only is not sufficient. You can argue and object all you like but if you make the same mistake again you are likely to receive a ban for it for two reasons: 1) you have been warned; 2) it is wrong not to acknowledge the original source/creator when copying & pasting text. Simply use quotation marks and mention the source; it is not that hard.

  2. gsays 2

    Morena folks, this is a needle for you. A pea under your mattress.

    Has anyone emailed their local nat MP and shared their opinion about the defiance of the speakers ruling?

    Go on, do it.

    It is satisfying to express our disappointment here amongst like minded people, far more effective to let our employees know we are watching them and we aren't happy.

  3. Kay 3

    Superb work by Guyon Espiner that clearly shows that Pharmac does NOT always get it right, as much as some people want to believe everything that comes out of their mouths. (The audio version also played earlier on Morning Report). This is the switch I'm caught up in and have raised a few times on this site this year.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/399908/seizures-driving-stand-downs-as-pharmac-pulls-epilepsy-drug-funding

    • Medsafe advised caution. But if the Pharmac agency has appointed a Jenny Shipley type person, she will go for making neolib management, hard-ball, cost-effective decisions and those who are not suited are just externalities. I fear that may be the case, and explain the reason and approach causing concerns. An example of the loss of citizen agency through their political process to affect and change practices of appointed agencies which the pollies have little say or control over.

      • Dukeofurl 3.1.1

        The Big Pharmaceuticals are trying to break our Pharmac and I wouldnt rely on a word Espiner says as hes the mouth piece of the PR spin doctors employed by drug companies, just giving their version. hes gone beyond giving information and become an advocate

        In the US 15 years ago , there were similar spruikers telling the listeners that Oxycontin is safe for lots of things- yes these pills are not in the addictive category but its the same sort of spin

        • Rosemary McDonald 3.1.1.1

          Clearly you neither listened nor read the link Kay provided Dukeofurl.

          Why not do that….then comment.?

        • Kay 3.1.1.2

          @Duke, you've clearly never suffered a major reaction from a drug brand switch, have you? I have, twice. Don't recall big pharma encouraging me to do so.

          Where do you get this bullshit from???

          • greywarshark 3.1.1.2.1

            Dull always? likes to direct attention away from the main point. There may be a wander over to some facts not quite right, or a historic reference to past measures, or a fault in the commenter.

            Just another The Chairman with a different style, but like a great big wet sponge on everything said. A reply in as contentious way as possible, with an aim to damping down discussion and putting the opinionated one on the back foot.

        • Kay 3.1.1.3

          Oh, and Duke, you're happy enough for someone to have a breakthrough seizure after many years of full control on one brand while driving down the road and ploughing into your family, that seizure being the result of a forced brand switch messing up their medication levels? I'm sure you don't mind the very real risk of people being killed, do you?

    • Rosemary McDonald 3.2

      An excellent piece, and because if your contributions here on the issue Kay I was able to explain some of the subtleties to my partner.

      Wasn't that person from Pharmacy an absolute….the word liar comes to mind…? ….but if course we can't say that about the spokesperson for our national treasure.frown

  4. (and some good news in an area of interest of mine..the normalisation of what once was an outlier-diet..)

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/26/mcdonalds-beyond-burger-new-plant-based-food-plt

    'Small-market test rolls out months after rival Burger King began testing the plant-based Impossible Foods burger'..

    (the plant-based future rolls nearer and nearer..)

  5. A 5

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116188360/benefit-relationship-test-is-putting-our-lives-on-hold

    All that is needed here is a policy change. The real question is why is the government resisting? Do they really believe the current arrangement is saving them money?

    • Dukeofurl 5.1

      Doesnt add up . From what she describes, that isnt a relationship according to Social Welfare rules.

      And anyway , if after 6 months of 'dating' they do form a relationship and notify Social Welfare to become complying. Whats the real issue ? That 9 months later 'she doesnt like his choice of music' and it ends and then has to go back to Social Welfare again .

      She should think about those on casual or part time work where they may not have work for longer periods of time.

      That circumstances change over time is nothing new and there are pathways to deal with it. Is it because she doesnt like the inconvenience ?

    • Tiger Mountain 5.2

      @A 10.22.
      Various policy changes could instantly stop beneficiaries lives from being made more miserable. Such as, raising the abatement levels on any income significantly, restoring proportionately the 1991 benefit cuts, and income splitting–so relationships of whatever kind or duration, have no impact on benefit applicants or recipients.

      Left over neo liberal dogma seems why the Govt. is resisting implementing the recommendations of the recent working party. Neo liberalism has a winners and losers model, people choose to be poor, laid off, under employed, or born into the kiwi underclass you see! A moralistic judgement is made or implied, even if it is macro economic factors well beyond an individuals control that led to their situation.

      “Losers” must not be rewarded in any way. Helen Clark had the “jobs jolt” that basically declared “no go” geographic areas for beneficiaries to reside in. And drug testing remains inequitable. It is a modern twist on “work will set you free”–and a placation of certain voters–whose second favourite sport is beneficiary bashing.

      The whole scenario has seen the original intent of Social Security become a sadistic punishment maze in the form of WINZ/MSD, where staff can be personally rewarded for NOT providing vulnerable people with the assistance they seek. The failure to redress this effectively is one of the biggest, and most heartless at least, errors of this Govt.

      • Dukeofurl 5.2.1

        The original intent of Social welfare was far more moralistic and limited than you think. The DPB didnt arrive till late 60s? or so.

        Can you find any justification for your other claims,

        • Tiger Mountain 5.2.1.1

          Heh, our glorious ex leader Mr Key was a “benefit boy”, raised in a state house. Yes, the 1964 Act was from a time of “war widow” benefits and infinitesimal unemployment, one “bread winner” supporting a family, children largely born within a marriage etc. etc. different times, which is exactly why WINZ/MSD/ACC need a drastic overhaul in the 21st Century.

          There are acres of research, anecdotes, and stats available from Beneficiary Advocates, AAAP–Auckland Action Against Poverty, Academics and Social Agencies even including Salvation Army, the Govt.Household Labour Force Survey etc. describing the reality of life for the NZ underclass.

          I have been involved with the old Auckland Peoples Centre, have done case work, and know in and out the travails of dealing with the poisonous WINZ culture. People queuing in the early hours outside a local office when they know AAAP advocates are coming–because the local branches apply policy not the Act–and do not inform all applicants and beneficiaries of their full entitlements. Paula Rebstock mentored Paula Bennett do not forget, and Bennett had a six week trip to the US to really bone up on how to put the slipper into the vulnerable. It is a rotten culture past its useby.

          • Dukeofurl 5.2.1.1.1

            So you retract your claim here, as you are off on another tangent

            "The whole scenario has seen the original intent of Social Security become a sadistic punishment maze in the form of WINZ/MSD,.."

            The original intent was and still is that are supported back into work where possible.

            And yes , it must be a pain having to construct your life around the rules made by WINZ/MSD.

            But hello, what is having a job like

            • Gabby 5.2.1.1.1.1

              Are you claiming social security was originally intended to be a sadistic punishment maze dookidooki?

              • Glad you brought that up A. I was looking through today's news and saw the relationship piece further on and it just caught a nerve and I hadn't noticed you were there already and put it up at 16,

          • New view 5.2.1.1.2

            TM what’s your point in bringing up Key. Three prime ministers ago. Paula Bennett is in the opposition not the Government. Your Government has been in power long enough to implement policy that you would like. Why are you swinging around trying to hit people that haven’t been in Government for years, or so called barking dogs like Bennett and Bridges. Why don’t you swing at the present government which is clearly not moving fast enough in the direction you would like.

            • phillip ure 5.2.1.1.2.1

              um..!..perhaps because key/the tories caused the problems now needing to be fixed..?

              (just guessing here..)

              • Tiger Mountain

                Illustrating how the once reasonably benevolent Social Security system degenerated into a “war on the poor” complete with state assisted demonising of beneficiaries. Remember the Shipley era “dob in a bludger” TV ads anyone? That attitude persists at WINZ/MSD/ACC.

                Bennie bashing is still the second favourite sport of many New Zealanders. Low paid workers and middle class (often on WFF tax credits themselves) alike, love to hate those in receipt of a jobseeker pittance.

                A reckoning is here though with the advent of AI and precarious/contract/Intern work.

  6. NZ First revealing further their lack of heart and human kindliness which must of course, be accompanied by practicality. Their attitude on testing and drug use at gatherings, festivals is an example of snooty moralistic superiority and bone-headed obsession with control over their fellow humans. If they cared two hoots, or even one, they would support this safety measure, despite being disparaging about the way that so many will experiment with their own wellbeing and health in such a reckless way.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1909/S00392/lives-put-at-risk-as-darroch-ball-ignores-evidence.htm

    Festival Drug Testing: Lives At Risk As Ball Ignores Evidence

    Darroch Ball, Law and Order Spokesperson for New Zealand First, does not support drug checking as a harm reduction strategy and is currently blocking a clarification of the Misuse of Drugs Act that would allow the service to be implemented nationally…

    “His message is abstain or die,” says KnowYourStuffNZ’s Managing Director, Wendy Allison. "His perspective is callous and deeply flawed…

    Apparently the stalwarts of NZ First want to control every part of human life, from the position of power they have scrambled to and decree what is right for the public who will suffer if they don’t conform. The dour and narrow do-as-I-say, obey or else suffer the consequences dictators, who love judging others and uniformity to their own limited outlook, and can brook no dissent or alternative view.

    • solkta 6.1

      They asked Winston about this policy i think on last night's TV1 News and his answer was that he was not sure if they had this right. Classic NZF with leader and spokesperson on different planets.

      • Sacha 6.1.1

        All parties fly kites and see which way the wind blows.

        • greywarshark 6.1.1.1

          Makes them sound like a bunch of farts.

          • greywarshark 6.1.1.1.1

            I am sure that a number of people are sick of talking about serious political matters that are so silly that we can hardly take them seriously. Here is a Billy Connolly clip on farting for light relief. If not, feel free to ignore it and go on with your analysis of the Big Orange, and the Big Yellow and other merry men and women strutting and puking as if all the world is a stage.

            (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex8eilkWxgM&list=PLA358F07102200687

            This is Billy Connolly talking totally inconsequentially about farting and he doesn't mention politicians anywhere but he probably didn't know that the bets were that the offender was a politician. And because he was really offensive, and didn't know, and everyone looked at the person nearby which was Billy who had to bear the externalities, and that is so likely for a politician, that almost makes it a certainty.

    • Hongi Ika 6.2

      Not sure where NZF is coming from on this one ?

      • greywarshark 6.2.1

        Well it would be forward-thinking and practical to take a precautionary, preventative approach where there is a practice of reckless drug-taking that people persist with. (Buying stuff from people to put in your body and not knowing just what it is, and whether the seller does either?!)

        But NZF and leftish conservative people like Jim Anderton cannot bring themselves to be anything but backward-looking when attempts to change old ways and mores come along. (Jim lost a family member to drugs and then set on the line of zero drugs, continuing the same failing practice that had resulted in so much trouble, illness, death and corruption.) Sigh.

  7. joe90 7

    Charming.

    /

  8. How we could act about these racist white supremacists in Christchurch to open up their minds, and let some healing sunlight in.

    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4gly9n9RBo

    Daryl Davis decided to write a book with the theme of 'Why do you hate me when you don't know me.' He gets an interview with the KKK leader and they become friendly acquaintances.

    Black man Daryl David, hot musician and KKK Klan Leader Roger Kelly end up visiting each other's homes, first Daryl is invited to Kelly's, and finally Kelly visits Davis. The KKK leader in the end declares to a crowd, "I've more respect for that black man than for you white n..gers out there." That is a big step for mankind. Perhaps we can make breakthrough after much persistence and face to face meetings to clear the toxic gunk away. Still different, but having respect for the person. Davis says, "Ignorance breeds fear".

    • McFlock 8.1

      Seems to have more success than the Auckland Uni VC's approach. When fascist-adjacents were advertising on campus earlier in the year, he reckoned they barely existed. Now, he's regrettably unable to do anything about them.

      The next step in the four step plan is for him to say "maybe there was something we could have done but it's too late now"

  9. Fireblade 9

    Everyone likes red baseball caps.

  10. soddenleaf 10

    No Maori chief sold land to settlers so they'd live nearby… …is that a racial smear? Coz history shows that the Maori who adapt, to get across the ocean, to the new ecology of Aotearoa, to storms, to new groups arriving from the pacific.. …well before, cook and Tasman or whoever would have arrived. And after, those that traded, that welcome, that adjusted and learnt new farming techniques, religions, etc…

    Sorry I just don't see it, even if you agree that nothing good came with Cook, that Maori had always given up land to conquest by other Maori, even if you put all the blinkers on, from both sides. It was racism to not compensate when moving a church, or graveyard, just because they were Maori. Or did settlers just apply their own values to themselves, and Maori expectations to Maori. Isn’t that the conceit I the heart of the debate, that compensating relies on western European values.

  11. soddenleaf 11

    So people here have both Scots and Maori background. So they were pushed off the highlands, only then to have their first generation nz ancesters thrown off their Maori land…. …have the British compensated them for highland land?

    • The Scots came here to get a better deal, as did all our ancestors. And we were going along in a jerky but positive way when we weren't inflamed by the export market beyond being rational.

  12. Sourcing local product – good. But so big that it will smother smaller shops in Christchurch?

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/first-up/audio/2018715423/waste-free-locally-grown-ch-riverside-market-opens-today

    Five years ago it was just an idea – but after 18 months of construction and 80 million dollars later – what's poised to be Christchurch's central emporium for food, drink and culture is about to open in a few hours. And developers are hoping it will bring vibrancy back to the central city. It aims to be waste-free, have as much locally grown produce as possible and hopes to attract 10,000 to 15,000 customers a day. One of the developers and owners of the Oxford Terrace precinct, Richard Peebles joins us now.

  13. I think it would be uncomfortable for a cop to come forward about bullying and allow his name to be published.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018715441/i-was-bullied-for-a-decade-former-detective

  14. This is a good sign. I hope that it is rolled out to all places where it can be established it is needed.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116205037/government-reaches-deal-with-banks-to-push-pause-on-regional-branch-closures

    Major banks have announced a temporary pause to the closure of regional branches while they look at rolling out regional "banking hubs".

    The Government announced on Monday that four regional banking hubs would open in Opunake, Martinborough, Stoke and Twizel to provide basic banking as part of a trial beginning in early 2020.

    The hubs will feature a Smart ATM, where people will be able to make deposits and transfer money, as well as withdraw cash. Each hub will also have support staff to assist people using the ATM.

    The trial was brokered by the Government with Kiwibank, BNZ, TSB, ANZ, ASB and Westpac, which will share the cost of running the hubs.

  15. For those interested in finance here are some interesting figures and details.

    https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6090446730001

    Pioneer Credit (ASX:PNC) has announced its net profit (NPAT) has dropped 76 per cent to of $4.3 million for the 2019 full year.

    The result came on the back of the application of Amortised Cost to its portfolio. Earnings increased by 16.7 per cent to $63.4 million.

    And Tourism might have to look at its short and medium term business model. WTF who’d have thunk it!

    New Zealand tourism sees threat if climate change deters long-haul flyers

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116193329/climate-change-threat-for-tourism-sparks-research-on-impact

  16. When will we treasure our young parents and support and train them in their parenting role and have a friendly hub that provides them with medical help so they can carry out their task of bringing up their children well. A good short course regularly in parenting skills, house hold maintenance, creative work. People would smile, the kids would bloom and this era of hate-filled government for young single parents, and older ones, would end and we could bury it 100 metres down and plant flowers on the spot.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/116188360/benefit-relationship-test-is-putting-our-lives-on-hold

    $500 down

    Myself and my partner of three months are in this exact situation. I was refused Working for Families payments and the accommodation supplement as soon as I declared that we were in a relationship.

    On average I then lost $500 per week leaving me unable to cover my weekly bills, let alone pay board to my partner. I am working three different jobs trying to make ends meet, barely breaking even and finding that I am spending just as much, if not more, on childcare than I am earning. The fact that I am paying other people to spend time with my kids so that I can work to cover that and not even make any extra money to better our lives saddens me.

    Thankfully my partner does help me out financially (he doesn't really have a choice as he chooses love over money).

  17. Robert Guyton 17

    "Andrew Rawnsley is one of the best political journalists currently writing. His analysis of the violence engulfing British politics ATM is fascinating. It maters to NZ too: Crusher Collins returned from London last week after meeting leading Brexiteers (the people using political violence as a tactic). The same week: the Nats staged their stunt over film taking during sittings of our Parliament and edited by them to create misleading messages."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/29/boris-johnson-seeks-to-divide-conquer-with-incendiary-rhetoric

  18. marty mars 18

    Good expected result – bit tough that they couldn't monetise their disgusting attitudes and I do feel sorry for cumin and spittle – nah not even slightly lol just joking //sarc tag sarc//

    The High Court has rejected a judicial review of Regional Facilities Auckland's decision to block two controversial Canadian speakers from using a council-owned venue.

    RFA, Auckland Council and Auckland Mayor Phil Goff were sued over the decision to bar Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux.

    Free Speech Coalition member David Cumin and Dunedin bookseller Malcolm Moncrief-Spittle, who purchased a premium ticket to the event, sought a number of declarations, including that the decision was unlawful.

    A summary of Justice Pheroze​ Jagose's​ judgment said RFA did not exercise "any public power" in cancelling the event, which was to be held last August.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/116214122/high-court-rejects-judicial-review-of-decision-to-block-controversial-canadian-pair-from-auckland-venue

    • Dukeofurl 18.1

      Yes. Good result.

      Essentially operation of the Council Public venues is a 'private operation' and not a public function which can be reviewed.

      The BORA has no connection to the cancellation. And Goffs 'decision' that the venues were available to the speakers , seems to have been made after the staff made an operational decision largely based on the safety requirements

      • Dukeofurl 18.1.1

        oops Goff said the venues werent available after the decision made by officials

        • marty mars 18.1.1.1

          I think the key bit is

          "Its decision was unaffected by any mayoral view, being founded on legitimate security concerns," it read.

  19. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/116118532/police-attend-serious-family-violence-incident-in-christchurch

    This was a murder-suicide of a couple 70s and 80s. The woman was very ill, and they may have decided that the present was the time to die together. He was thoughtful and phoned police so that they would be found and have the care and attention needed.

    If they had recourse to a managed demise they would not have been forced into this graceless way of exiting this world. The present euthanasia bill is only to cover terminally ill people and that can hardly get past all the rigid minds who can't make any decisions for themselves, and don't want anybody else to have an option.

    • weka 19.1

      Or, she was unwell and they were struggling due to lack of social support and this was a way out (with or without her consent). Which is pretty much a core concern of those against euthanasia.

      • greywarshark 19.1.1

        I keep getting surprised that no-one accepts that you may die when you get old, and is unwilling to say to old people you may die if you want to. If you want to go it’s of no matter what social support is available. It;s a pity that people can't accept dying in this country, we are constantly hearing of people dying before their time in other countries. It's a global world, and we are trying to get people to limit their extravagances and materialism and also it would help to reduce world population. All good reasons to be allowed to die when you are old and want to. It is most strange that people aren't cared about much in this country, except when there is some disaster and we make all the right noises. It is not till you want to die that you become precious to everyone wanting you to feel every last creak and groan before you go.

        • McFlock 19.1.1.1

          I don't believe anyone has argued that death can be avoided permanently. Some do argue the sacredness of all life, even in extremis (e.g. Catholic theologians, I think).

          But the main objection I have is that it can't just be restricted to the low-hanging fruit of people who have clear wishes expressed to the last, with their decision assuredly unaffected by financial pressures or a temporary depression or a difficult transition late in life. Similarly, a disabled friend of mine has concerns that maybe an offer of a needle eventually becomes the easier solution than the offer of decent needs assistance.

          Formalising the bureaucracy of legally killing someone is a big step, and it worries me that you have to oversimplify your opponents so much in order to justify it.

          • weka 19.1.1.1.1

            worries me too. And that disabled people haven't been well listened to yet.

            "Similarly, a disabled friend of mine has concerns that maybe an offer of a needle eventually becomes the easier solution than the offer of decent needs assistance"

            NZ is a country that cut the care budget to the elderly some years ago, and the MoH was trying to cut disability support budget just this year. That's not even getting to ACC or WINZ. I don't know if many NZers are unaware of what is going on, or just don't care.

        • weka 19.1.1.2

          I'm ok with people dying if they want to, wouldn't even restrict that to old people or the terminally ill. The state sanctioning that and providing the resources and support to do it needs way more care than what is being proposed with the current Bill. The issue of care matters, because a country that refuses to look after disabled people properly (that's NZ), will not manage euthanasia properly either.

          If people are ok with some people dying when they don't want to, then we can carry on, but let's just be honest about it.

          • phillip ure 19.1.1.2.1

            i am totally opposed to this euthanasia/state-sanctioned killing bill – for all the reasons cited above..

            plus also concerns about grasping possible inheritors wanting to hasten the process – and so talking the old into 'doing it for the kids' or whatever..

            if there was support for the old/disabled at the levels where it is in countries that have eithanasia…(c.f. netherlands)..then and only then should this idea be considered..

            and even then – what to do about the hurry-up! relatives..?

  20. Edit
    We are getting more cancer help but getting a vaccination against meningococcal disease can cost between $130-$145. There is no public funding for this damn bug that recently killed a 26 year old fit dance teacher in a day. I have had cancer treatment myself, but the concern I feel is for these young people snuffed out so quickly by this disease. (It is recommended that contacts also have a vaccination.) Cancer has very good public relations and has achieved greater funding and attention because it doesn't kill people suddenly like this damn mening. disease.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/116183441/prominent-christchurch-dance-teacher-dies-after-a-days-illness

    This chap has brain cancer and wants extension of life treatment – not a cure. How can we afford to meet all these entitled people;s needs?
    Currently, the newsreader and creative director, is in the “precarious situation” of needing an unfunded cancer treatment, Avastin, to extend his life which comes with a hefty price tag of $34,000 for six months.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/116016678/kiwi-radio-personality-michael-kooge-says-hes-being-left-to-die-as-he-cant-afford-cancer-treatment

    There should be a grant helping people organise their lives and getting them prepared for hospice care when needed, and that would be helpful to them rather than paying it to put off the inevitable. People with kiddies could get some help to give time so they could prepare their children for the time when they are not there for them any more I think.

  21. Then there is this story – very hopeful seeming – is she really cured?

    US doctor saves life of Kiwi woman with cancer after her call for help on Facebook

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12271594

  22. Freedoms – they are being encroached on. The trend for developers to want to put their own stamp on 'their' development like aristocratic estate owners is an amazing impost in a modern society.

    Hobsonville Point house rules: Paint, fence height, planting, tents and more

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12272076

  23. halfcrown 23

    Now for something completely different that hopefully will bring a smile to your face.

    I was employed by one of the greatest people I have had the privilege to know, my late boss. He was an officer and a gentleman. with a great sense of responsibility to society with a quick wit and a wicked sense of humour. He was a war hero brought up in the great depression as a young person. He was also a very successful businessman and I am convinced one of the things that made him a success was his attitude towards others and his staff, with a talent for attracting the right people for the right job. He is a great loss to New Zealand

    Every so often he would write a company magazine designed towards customers and the staff. Always full of wit and great snippets of wisdom apart from the technical know-how. This weekend we had a de-clutter session and at the back of a cupboard, I found the last issue of this persons magazine I had saved. I decided to read some of the snippets of wit and humour by this great guy, and decided to list them here as I am sure they will bring a smile.

    “A gossip is someone with a great sense of rumuor.

    If it wasn't for electricity we would be computing by candlelight.

    Today's mighty oaks are just yesterday's nut that held its ground

    Forget health foods I need all the preservatives I can get.

    Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.”

    Lastly a bit of Shakespear according to this guy

    “Sneezing – much achoo about nothing”

  24. Grey@https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30-09-2019/#comment-1658311

    It’s quite common here in Oz with new housing estate and it can quite a headache for those trying to build a new house from these asshole developers and it actually creates a very sterile suburbs.

    • Macro 24.1

      I worked for a time on Hobsonville Point that Grey refers to above, setting out the area in its initial stages – like many of them, they are Australian developers bringing over your typical New Australian suburb and planting them in NZ. There is one at the bottom of the South side of the Bombay Hills, which is almost the same as the Perth suburb I am currently residing in at the moment. There are some features however that I do find attractive and this is the inclusion of many parks and play areas.

  25. Eco maori 25

    Kia Ora Newshub

    YEA The Super Gold Card app it will be good for some of our elderly tangata. I think if the apps are advertised they will get a cell phone it will encourage Our elderly to learn new skills.

    Just felt Ruamoko not to big enough to let me know he's moving.

    There was a bit of A thunder storm today Ingrid.

    I have lowered my meat consumption for the environment I still think we need some meat in our diet just not to much.

    Ka kite Ano

  26. Eco maori 26

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News.

    Kamo high school one would think with that name and 60 % Maori the school would have Te reo Maori.

    I see a the Te Arawa tangata whanau links kia kaha

    Its great to see tangata whenua culture going strong and some tangata from Te Tairawhiti getting recognized for their mahi.

    Ruben was a good Rugby league player and a good role model for sports tamariki.

    I enjoy seeing sports people respecting Tangata Whenua culture

    Kia Ora to Six60 beautiful waiata

    Miss Earth that's excellent we are going to respect the Phenomenon we all came from

    Ka kite Ano

  27. Eco maori 27

    Here you go Whanau this is stark evedince that human caused climate change / global warming is our reality it is not fiction like the neanderthal want us to believe.

    I can see that the neanderthal are stuffing with new improvements in renewable energy storage and generations and bio oils. Remember these people are ruthless they have no morels they will try anything to stop us transitioning into a society we're every person and country becomes energy independent. That takes away the neanderthal power to manipulate the tangata of the Papatuanuku. That's why they are fighting Green Energy and our reality of global warming sea level riseing with tooth and nail. But like the old saying goes it's Te tangata Te tangata more than tangata Mana that holds the Mana.

    Climate change

    The climate crisis explained in 10 charts

    From the rise and rise of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to possible solutions

    Damian Carrington and Cath Levett

    Billions of tonnes of carbon dioxide are sent into the atmosphere every year from coal, oil and gas burning.

    The problem – rising carbon dioxide in the atmosphere

    The level of CO2 has been rising since the industrial revolution and is now at its highest for about 4 million years. The rate of the rise is even more striking – the fastest for 66m years – with scientists saying we are in “uncharted territory”.

    The causes – fossil fuel burning

    Billions of tonnes of CO2 are sent into the atmosphere every year from coal, oil and gas burning. There is no sign of these emissions starting to fall rapidly, as is needed.

    The causes – forest destruction

    The felling of forests for timber, cattle, soy and palm oil is a big contributor to carbon emissions. It is also a major cause of the annihilation of wildlife on Earth.

    The consequences – global temperature rise

    The planet’s average temperature started to climb steadily two centuries ago, but has rocketed since the second world war as consumption and population has risen. Global heating means there is more energy in the atmosphere, making extreme weather events more frequent and more intense.

    The consequences – ice melting in Greenland

    Greenland has lost almost 4 trillion tonnes of ice since 2002. Mountain ranges from the Himalayas to the Andes to the Alps are also losing ice rapidly as glaciers shrink. A third of the Himalayan and Hindu Kush ice is already doomed.

    The consequences – rising sea levels

    Sea levels are inexorably rising as ice on land melts and hotter oceans expand. Sea levels are slow to respond to global heating, so even if the temperature rise is restricted to 2C, one in five people in the world will eventually see their cities submerged, from New York to London to Shanghai.

    The consequences – shrinking Arctic sea ice

    As heating melts the sea ice, the darker water revealed absorbs more of the sun’s heat, causing more heating – one example of the vicious circles in the climate system. Scientists think the changes in the Arctic may be responsible for worsened heatwaves and floods in Eurasia and North America.

    <

  28. Ka kite Ano link below below.
  29. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/20/the-climate-crisis-explained-in-10-charts

  • Eco maori 28

    Why is Eco Maori mahi being edited. A

  • Eco maori 30

    Kia Ora The Am Show.

    Our government is investing wisely to provide safe cost effective Roads and Highways.

    Ka pai to Gull moving into the South Island Eco Maori knows what the prices of fuel is down there. That's why it will be awesome when I see Tangata and Countrys becoming energy independent Ma Te Wa.

    Its good to see Africa Americans getting some justice that women shooting her Neighbour who was having tea in his own whare Ka pai.

    You think Im going to far kiss my whero.

    Tony thank for your good mahi as GrayMouth Mayor all the best on your new journey in life.

    In the year 2000 Aotearoa had a fairer wealth distribution our vaxcernated tamariki % were higher the age of our vehicle fleet was younger our sports stadium were full there was low or known homeless people our cost of living was low. What happened well Prebble conned his way into the Labour Party ie Labour started making policy for the wealth people with out thinking about the negative effects it has on the common tangata. Then we get 10 years of a business only government. I say that in the years 2000 the business were not making huge profits.

    The class action on the South Island bovine problems is Lawyers showing the rest of the class how they can quite easily take boths sides heaps putea. as I have said war is for idiots negotiation is needed on both sides of the fences. When lawyers are involved the only winner is Te lawyer

    We should have more Australian comedy content on TV they have some funny buggers in Australia.

    I agree with your views Magda on Our environment and the effects that Modern culture has had on our environment.

    Electric cars are not expensive I could buy a good car with only 40.000 km on the clock for $10,000. dollars and cut my carbon footprint in half.

    Sir Bob I agree with your comments on gas in Aotearoa. But I think our government used the tactic of legislation to get the big 3 gas companies to let Gull in the South Island.

    Ka kite Ano link below

  • Eco maori 31

    I have had bulls raging they are near impossible to stop them fighting you need a good set of dogs to stop them fighting.

  • Eco maori 32

    Here you go Whanau they were warned about the way they we have been treating our environment 100s of years ago and even nowadays they don't want to change the UN sustainable economic growth. Ma Te Wa times are going to change fast kia kaha to all the good tangata fighting for our future climate.

    Bad ancestors: does the climate crisis violate the rights of those yet to be born?

    Our environmental vandalism has made urgent the question of ethical responsibilities across decades and centuries

    What if climate breakdown is a violation of the rights of those yet to be born? Finally, this urgent question seems to be getting the attention it deserves. Last month an astonishing 7 million people from nearly 200 countries took to the streets as part of the youth-led global climate strike. Young people around the world recognise that the disastrous repercussions of the already present ecological crisis will fall disproportionately on their shoulders, and the shoulders of generations to come – in particular on those whose communities have emitted the smallest proportion of greenhouse gasses.

    That is precisely what some concerned young people have been arguing in the US court system since 2015, when a group of seven plaintiffs, not yet old enough to vote, filed a lawsuit in the commonwealth court of Pennsylvania against Governor Tom Wolf and various state agencies. The suit argued that the defendants had failed to take necessary action to regulate carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases consistent with the commonwealth’s obligations as a public trustee. In the legal team’s language, the state was failing in its responsibility to “conserve and maintain public natural resources, including the atmosphere, for the benefit of present and future generations

    Back in the US, municipalities such as New York City, San Francisco and Richmond are suing fossil fuel companies for billions of dollars in damages for suppressing information about the hazards of carbon emissions and impending sea-level rise. Additionally, First Nations communities are invoking treaty rights to prevent the pipeline transport of fossil fuels over unceded indigenous territories. The citizens behind these creative legal campaigns are trying to curb resource exploitation to ensure we leave behind a place that is livable

    We cannot say we were not warned. In an 1847 speech, pioneering conservationist and congressman George Perkins Marsh identified processes that would later be understood as part of the greenhouse effect. His popular 1864 book, Man and Nature: Or, Physical Geography as Modified by Human Action, reprimanded those who despoil the environment and recommended a course of resource management that would take the needs of future generations into account. “The Earth is fast becoming an unfit home for its noblest inhabitant, and another era of equal human crime and human improvidence … would reduce it to such a condition of impoverished productiveness, of shattered surface, of climactic excess, as to threaten the depravation, barbarism, and perhaps even extinction of the species,” he wrote. “The world cannot afford to wait till the slow and sure progress of exact science has taught it a better economy

    Ka kite Ano link below below.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/01/bad-ancestors-climate-crisis-democracy

  • Eco maori 33

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute.

  • Eco maori 34

    Kia Ora Te Ao Maori News

    Eco Maori hope that Maketu pies keeps on trading they have great pies I love the fish pies actually all their pies if I see Maketu pies I will buy them.

    Tomorrow is the day that the Pike River Whanau get back to see inside the mine kia kaha.

    I think that alcoholism is a deases that needs to be declared as that I have seen the damage it is doing to Tangata Whenua and other cultures.

    Ka pai to Orange Sky for providing portable showers for the homeless people. Aotearoa has the worst homeless people in the OECD not long ago Aotearoa had the highest living standard in the OECD.

    Ka kite Ano

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