Open mike 31/07/2019

58 comments on “Open mike 31/07/2019 ”

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1. Dennis Frank 1

   31 July 2019 at 7:32 am

   Trotter hallucinates revolting natives: "It is always dangerous to remind the colonisers of the world they have extinguished. To offer them a glimpse of that world is more perilous still. It proves that the culture they conquered and left for dead can be brought back to life. Ihumatao has smouldered for 156 years. The effect of the mass occupation of the past week has gifted it a sudden inrush of oxygen. Now there are flames amongst the fern."

   Why? Not enough racism in the media yet, apparently. "Those flames glitter in the narrowed eyes of the watchers. From the ill-educated and ill-disciplined the responses are already forthcoming. Angry posts on Facebook and Twitter, filled with the raw racism of those for whom the possession of a white skin constitutes their sole claim to superiority. Reading these, it is difficult to decide who they hate the most: Maori, or the Pakeha who support them?" http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2019/07/ihumatao-watched-by-unfriendly-eyes.html

   Best way to fan the flames of hostility is to play the racism card, particularly when it has already been over-played. Yeah, I know it makes no sense, I'm just illuminating the thought processes that drive his florid prose. Can't have a media career unless you beat up controversy…
2. phillip ure 2

   31 July 2019 at 7:34 am

   one for the flesh-eaters to chew over…

   https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/30/dairy-scary-public-farming-calves-pens-alternatives
   • phillip ure 2.1

     31 July 2019 at 8:27 am

     with the rise of (indistinguishable from the 'real thing') meats and cheeses – the reasons to eat for flavor/texture etc. will be soon long gone..

     and those who will still insist on 'the real thing' will just be insisting on a subtext/sauce of wholesale cruelty to animals/destruction of the environment..with their food..

     when the issue is boiled down to just that – the 'real thing' will become less and less palatable to many/most..

     this is when we will see the sea-change from animal/cruelty-based foods – to the healthier/better for the planet – plant-based foods..
     • Rae 2.1.1

       31 July 2019 at 8:44 am

       Will we have the decency not to allow the animals we have farmed not to go extinct or will we toss them aside and breed more humans to fill the spaces they leave.
       • phillip ure 2.1.1.1

         31 July 2019 at 8:51 am

         i think there is little chance of that happening – on the other hand there are all the species that are being/have been made extinct – by the farming of animals/growing of soy etc. to feed them…
   • Psycho Milt 2.2

     31 July 2019 at 8:45 am

     Phew, good job we're not getting our milk from Britain, eh?
     • phillip ure 2.2.1

       31 July 2019 at 8:56 am

       heh..!..that's all you've got there..?..p.m..?

       and will they be tearing the (animal)-flesh from yer dead/cold hands…..heh..!
       • Psycho Milt 2.2.1.1

         31 July 2019 at 9:08 am

         They'd certainly have to pry the fancy cheese from my cold, dead hands! Take away camembert, blue brie, feta, parmigiano, maasdam etc and only alcohol, sex and chocolate are left.
         • phillip ure 2.2.1.1.1

           31 July 2019 at 9:36 am

           you clearly need to go to a vegan-cheese tasting – p.m – 'cos (as i noted) there are now plant-based versions indistinguishable from the real thing..

           so you can still have yr camambert/blue-brie etc..tastes/textures you so love..

           without the soupcon of animal-suffering/environmental damage..?..eh..?

           what's wrong with that picture..?
           • McFlock 2.2.1.1.1.1

             31 July 2019 at 3:12 pm

             Periodically some fucking hippie manages to persuade me to try some hyper-expensive dross that is "indistinguishable from the real thing". always bollocks.

             The closest they've managed so far is "indistinguishable from a particularly shite and cheap attempt to sell something as the real thing".

             If it was indistinguishable, it would drive the "real thing" into a niche market.
             • The Al1en …

               31 July 2019 at 3:29 pm

               We were told these frankemeats were going to replace the good stuff four or five years ago. It just didn't happen.
               • McFlock …

                 31 July 2019 at 3:33 pm

                 As soon as they're broadly equivalent in price and quality, they'll start taking over.

                 Until then, phil's fooling only himself.
                 • The Al1en …

                   31 July 2019 at 3:53 pm

                   It will certainly have to get close to the taste and texture, regardless of how cheap it becomes. At the moment it's a fail on all counts.

                   My kid turned veggonaut, and the other day I got ripped for nine bucks for three hundred grams of quorn mince. I made a meal and it was effing gross. Ended up binning mine. Thought I couldn't go wrong with a fake sausage. I was wrong. No matter how much sauce I put on my pretend banger it just tasted wrong.
                   • McFlock …

                     31 July 2019 at 4:12 pm

                     poor bugger.
                   • phillip ure …

                     31 July 2019 at 4:18 pm

                     i agree that the first attempts were pretty vile – i don't eat them – but the next generation is something different..

                     but once again – i won't be eating them – i haven't eaten animal flesh for over 30 yrs..

                     it is not a taste/texture sensation i want..

                     too much like the real thing – for my tastes..

                     they are like methadone for flesh-eaters/addicts..

                     they'll help ya..!
                   • McFlock …

                     31 July 2019 at 4:29 pm

                     lol so when you say stuff is indistinguishable from the real thing, you mean indistinguishable from your 30y.o. recollection of what the real thing once tasted like.

                     Explains a lot.
                   • James []

                     31 July 2019 at 4:54 pm

                     Funny how vegans so often come across as delusional.

                     Must be a lack of protein.
                   • The Al1en …

                     31 July 2019 at 4:43 pm

                     poor bugger.

                     I reckon lol

                     Recently been eating a lot of self caught, free range rabbit, though, so a good casserole and hearty pie later, the only sour taste left became a bitter afterthought.
                   • phillip ure …

                     31 July 2019 at 5:15 pm

                     nah..i am going on the blind taste-tests done @ fiekd days in hamilton..where tasters couldn't tell the difference – with many preferring the plant-based..

                     i am going on the burger chains in u.s. being early adopters – and the punters loving them..

                     i am going on the factories for both the leading brands being unable to keep up with orders..

                     i am going on the first of those companies to float on u.s. stockmarket – and being heavily over-subscribed..

                     i am not going on my 30+ yrs memories..

                     and hey..!..while you weren't watching/paying attention – most breads in supermarkets have gone vegan…

                     i used to be only able to buy one or two – now i can buy most..

                     betcha didn't know all that…eh..?

                     best you put down that slice of bread – and step well back..eh..?
                   • McFlock …

                     31 July 2019 at 5:21 pm

                     .where tasters couldn't tell the difference – with many preferring the plant-based..

                     Unless it's 50/50, they could tell the difference.

                     Bread is a good example of a cost-effective substitute "indistinguishable from the real thing". Margarine vs butter is another. But milk is still milk, and the meat aisles are still meat aisles (except for sausages, which are anything from "meat and random herbs" to "meat but mostly sawdust, and you don't want to know which bits of animals constitute the meat").
         • mac1 2.2.1.1.2

           31 July 2019 at 9:37 am

           If 'fermented curd' were gone, then such gems as the Cheese Shop skit from Monty Python would have no meaning.
           • phillip ure 2.2.1.1.2.1

             31 July 2019 at 9:58 am

             heh..!
       • phillip ure 2.2.1.2

         31 July 2019 at 9:27 am

         but seriously there – p.m…i continue to be surprised by how many people who self-regard as progressive – are so reactionary on this issue…

         especially in light of the indeniable health/environment issues from the farming/eating of animals – (need i remind you of the bowel-cancer equation?..that nz has worlds' highest rates of bowel-cancer + world-beating rates of consumption of animal-flesh/bye-products + red-meat/bacon being proven cause of bowel-cancer..

         how much more information do you need…..to drive any change in yr dietary practices..?

         and of course this reactionary attitude from many progressives has echoes in the abolition of human slavery (in the west)..

         many progressives/suffragettes from that era are on the record as being emphatic on the inferiority of the darker races..of being totally reactionary on the question of race..

         and so it is now on the question of animal-slavery/eatimg..eh..?
         • greywarshark 2.2.1.2.1

           31 July 2019 at 10:45 am

           Philip Ure I suspect that the truly ethical position on meat-eating is to eat ourselves, no other animal to be hurt in this process.

           As we have been making a living from feeding and growing animals for so long – it is hard to make the change to plant-first-and-only diets. But as you say our bowel cancer is high on the charts in a bad way, less meat is better.

           Why not put up a couple of recipes for your favourite flavoured meals on Sunday's How to Get There – but please don't swamp us with your sales pitch – you can get carried away. Antagonism and stress is bad for the digestion of any food, keep it simple and sweet will you.
           • phillip ure 2.2.1.2.1.1

             31 July 2019 at 11:20 am

             how have i been in the slightest way 'antagonistic'..?

             (perhaps you are discomfited by these uncomfortable truths..?..'tis different..eh..?..)

             and 'swamping you with a sales pitch'..?

             really..?

             i am arguing a fundamental moral/environmental-issue of our times..hardly a 'sales-pitch'…

             and one that doesn't get a huge hearing in this forum..eh..?

             so..hardly 'swamped'…

             and you are presenting the same economic arguments that were presented to defend the continuation of human slavery..

             ie: 'we've been doing it for so long..'..'we make a living from it'..

             those arguments didn't stand then..and don't stand here/now..
             • greywarshark …

               31 July 2019 at 11:44 am

               Oh forget I ever said anything PU. I am sick of people who can't think anything through and just react to life and everything that is said to them with their favourite obsession or interest blocking their vision. I will take no further interest in you or anything you say.
               • In Vino …

                 31 July 2019 at 6:58 pm

                 I agree greywarshark. This debate driven by Philip Ure has already happened some years ago when I had only just discovered the benefits of reading TS.

                 To be honest, I do not look forward to a repeat of that long and turgid debate, in which I seem to remember James making rather a pig of himself by over-indulgence in barbeques.
                 • greywarshark …

                   31 July 2019 at 7:11 pm

                   Yes we seemed to get down in the mosh pit when we want to keep on the stage demonstrating what great debaters we are.
                   • phillip ure …

                     31 July 2019 at 8:26 pm

                     you will always lose this particular debate – 'cos no matter how much the bluster..

                     the plant-based foods/arguments have science and history on their side..

                     animal-extraction industries are sunset industries…
                 • phillip ure …

                   31 July 2019 at 8:22 pm

                   well yes – i have been making these arguments for some 20 yrs..unsure how that invalidates them..

                   and the truth/facts of the matter are just that..indisputable..

                   and isn't it all going rather well..?

                   especially compared with 20 yrs ago.

                   you can't go anywhere these days – without falling over a vegan..
         • Psycho Milt 2.2.1.2.2

           31 July 2019 at 1:10 pm

           Don't get me started, Phil! Already blathered on about it at length yesterday and again today on threads about National's cancer announcement.
3. Dennis Frank 3

   31 July 2019 at 7:49 am

   Interesting technical point here from NRT: http://norightturn.blogspot.com/2019/07/the-referendum-bill.html

   The coalition has set the terms for the two referenda at the next election, but with a sunset clause. NRT questions the wisdom of the clause. Winston was once real big on citizens-initiated referenda, so I'm surprised he has endorsed the sunset strategy.

   Could it be that realpolitik has prevailed over populism in his mind? Those who object to people power usually cite the madness of crowds (just as likely as wisdom). I wonder if he has had a conversion experience.
4. marty mars 4

   31 July 2019 at 9:52 am

   What a joke – and not funny at all. How long are we going to put up with this bullshit?

   Debating oil and gas drilling without mentioning climate change has been labelled as like ''fighting a fire without water'' during a Dunedin hearing into an Austrian company's Otago plans.

   Environmental Protection Authority hearings started yesterday relating to OMV's intentions to drill an oil and gas exploration well costing about $80million in the Great South Basin this summer.

   It is required by its permit to do so before July 2021.

   The hearing was called a ''farce'' by environmentalists, including Oil Free Otago spokesman Adam Currie, as the topic of climate change was barred from being considered.

   About 40 protesters gathered outside the building in the late morning holding signs and singing songs.

   OMV New Zealand said it respected their democratic right to express points of view, but asked them to do so lawfully.

   Hearing consideration was limited to the effects of a small potential discharge of harmful substances from the drill rig's deck drains.

   https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/hearings-farce-environmentalists-say
   • greywarshark 4.1

     31 July 2019 at 10:50 am

     Pathetic. What a rig-up against the planet – there are more possibilities of oil spill than from deck drains. And the fact that climate change is happening but must not be acknowledged though it is a scientific fact – can't be accepted by people who draw on their own preferred facts to make their case for doing business. Let's settle this with a duel you could say instead of having an expensive legal hearing with counsel being paid in mega-dollars. Come outside the two protagonists could say, choose your weapons, and let's see who has the best facts.
     • Poission 4.1.1

       31 July 2019 at 11:36 am

       On the brightside the consensus forecasts suggest a significant deepening (strictly negative) of the antarctic oscillation and increased probability of significant southerly regimes for the next couple of weeks.

       https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/precip/CWlink/daily_ao_index/aao/new.aao_index_ensm.html
       • greywarshark 4.1.1.1

         31 July 2019 at 1:07 pm

         Interesting graphs Poission. I think I saw that the temp will not stay at -4 for long but will likely be below freezing for the 14-day period with this oscillation which will please the ski fields hearts mightily.

         I hope they have been able to get their staff okay. They were saying that new measures the Immigration Impairment have introduced meant that what used to be straightforward and timely had extra time-consuming layers. That made it difficult for the special people required to get their paperwork, and their travel etc. arrangements done. They could miss the snow completely the way it worked (not). I think it is so wrong to allow individuals to get on top of a heap that they fashion into a shape of their own design.
5. greywarshark 5

   31 July 2019 at 11:22 am

   This is intersting and good to hear. Good on them. We all can do something – besides writing here, which is useful itself because we need to have discussion and thinking about our country and its problems and what sort of road blocks we need against continuing bad systems and what we need to remove.

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018706229/raglan-s-waste-free-goal

   This was a new direction that will help in managing down plastic use.
   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018706549/are-bio-plastics-the-answer

   Intelligent regulation and standard setting assisting the building trade.
   https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018706547/calls-for-national-register-for-building-materials
6. greywarshark 6

   31 July 2019 at 11:32 am

   News this morning. https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/114611592/biometric-data-can-be-a-useful-tool-for-employers-but-what-about-your-privacy by Employment Lawyer Peter Cullen 31/7/2019

   OPINION: Your fingerprint is uniquely your own, tied to your identity for your entire life. It is for this very reason that technology is advancing the usefulness of biometric data like fingerprints, making it much harder for people to keep their identity and history private.
   These technological advances are everywhere – from DNA technology allowing police to solve cold cases to everyday people unlocking their phone with a scan of their face…

   Take the recent Australian Fair Work Commission decision involving Queensland sawmill worker Jeremy Lee and his employer, Superior Wood.
   Lee refused to give his fingerprints to his employer as part of a new work sign-in system. After a period of some months involving discussions and then warnings, Lee was sacked for his persistent refusals.

   Lee wasn’t just thinking about privacy, he declared: “It’s my biometric data. It’s not appropriate for them to have it”.

   (Question: Why should an employer have the right to take samples of your body, readings of your functions, skin details? Are we things bought and sold, like animals at a saleyard, teeth, eyes, hooves checked? Isn’t this just the same – an invasion of our individual rights becoming normalised?)

   Overseas: https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/1892471/rise-face-and-fingerprint-recognition-technology-just-how
   Face recognition technology to help “tag” friends in photographs, fingerprint recognition to unlock smartphones, and fingerprint door locks are just some of the ways in which biometric data has been used in recent years. In Asia, developments include palm vein authentication technology for payments and mobile terminals, or “biocarts” that take photos and fingerprints of passengers for immigration processing in Japan; fingerprint authentication for ATMs in Vietnam; and facial recognition technology
   . Is this the end of long passwords and complex authentication systems?

   Overseas – Australia: https://www.biometricupdate.com/201907/australian-intelligence-community-seeks-new-biometric-access-control-system Australia National Intelligence Community (NIC) has issued a tender for a new common access card system, preferably featuring biometric identity verification, to control access to buildings of all 10 of the country’s security and intelligence agencies, which make up the group, reports
   • Cinny 6.1

     31 July 2019 at 1:29 pm

     Interestingly enough the placement of a persons ears are up there with fingerprints for identifying people.

     https://www.wired.com/2010/11/ears-biometric-identification/
   • gsays 6.2

     31 July 2019 at 3:56 pm

     “Are we things bought and sold, like animals at a saleyard, teeth, eyes, hooves checked”

     Well while I am sure this behaviour will soon be all pervasive… in the case quoted, it was wage slavery.
   • joe90 6.3

     31 July 2019 at 4:09 pm

     A method to the madness?

     https://twitter.com/aletweetsnews/status/1155484331344826369

     HONG KONG — The police officers wrestled with Colin Cheung in an unmarked car. They needed his face.

     They grabbed his jaw to force his head in front of his iPhone. They slapped his face. They shouted, “Wake up!” They pried open his eyes. It all failed: Mr. Cheung had disabled his phone’s facial-recognition login with a quick button mash as soon as they grabbed him.

     As Hong Kong convulses amid weeks of protests, demonstrators and the police have turned identity into a weapon. The authorities are tracking protest leaders online and seeking their phones. Many protesters now cover their faces, and they fear that the police are using cameras and possibly other tools to single out targets for arrest.

     http://archive.li/uQZx3

     https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/26/technology/hong-kong-protests-facial-recognition-surveillance.html
7. marty mars 7

   31 July 2019 at 12:23 pm

   Good to check what's been happening down there imo

   A Government appointed watchdog could soon monitor the troubled Westland District Council.

   Stuff understands Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta recently wrote to the council's chief executive, Simon Bastion, outlining her intention to put in place a Crown observer.

   The letter follows an Auditor-General inquiry that raised serious concerns about a decision by Westland mayor Bruce Smith and councillor Durham Havill to build a $1.3 million stopbank at Franz Josef without the backing of the full council, and without consulting experts or conducting a proper procurement process.

   … The Westland District Council, according to a March briefing to Mahuta, has a history of issues relating to dysfunctional governance and management, inadequate procurement and process, and non compliance with statutory obligations.

   https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/114604759/government-watchdog-set-to-monitor-troubled-westland-district-council
   • greywarshark 7.1

     31 July 2019 at 12:36 pm

     I think that the Mayor felt that urgent attention was needed and did the commonsense thing with the stopbank. But then probably that is normal behaviour for that area, a hearty, quick decision-making of we'll fix that -without proper planning which looked at the bigger issues, and long-term needs and what the latest 'best practice' is, if only to decide to ignore it – it not always being reasonable and cost-efficient.
   • Cinny 7.2

     31 July 2019 at 1:32 pm

     Now that's excellent news.

     Wonder if maureen pugh wishes to comment? Probably not she was busy sending out a presser to local news outlets yesterday announcing that she had a cake to celebrate 3 yrs in parliament. True story.
8. SHG 8

   31 July 2019 at 1:50 pm

   https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/395585/australia-looks-to-further-tighten-visa-requirements

   Anger over the deportation of New Zealand citizens from Australia is likely to intensify, with Canberra set to introduce even tighter visa requirements.

   Nice work, Jacinda. Heckuva job.
   • Gabby 8.1

     31 July 2019 at 4:17 pm

     Did she call Peda Duddin a fuckknuckle again shggy?
     • SHG 8.1.1

       31 July 2019 at 5:00 pm

       Lecturing a bunch of Bible-thumping white racists that their immigration policies are shitty has backfired in spectacular fashion, and Kiwis will pay the price.
       • Graeme 8.1.1.1

         31 July 2019 at 6:18 pm

         The poor Ockers aren't a happy bunch right now shaggy, their economy is going off the cliff and that bunch of muppets across the Tasman are steaming ahead. Their dollar has fallen from it's customary level of over NZ$1.20 to only just buying one NZ$ (today's cash rate) And I can't see it changing any time soon.
         • SHG 8.1.1.1.1

           31 July 2019 at 6:26 pm

           What does this have to do with either country's economy?
           • Pat 8.1.1.1.1.1

             31 July 2019 at 6:27 pm

             it allows them to export their unemployment stats
             • In Vino …

               31 July 2019 at 7:15 pm

               Good point, Pat. Back in the late 80s we invented lots of dodgy private tertiary institutes so that our young unemployed would become students gaining worthless qualifications, instead of featuring in unemployment stats.

               Didn't work, because a few years later they still had no jobs.

               Australia gets rid of the actual person – much more efficient.
       • greywarshark 8.1.1.2

         31 July 2019 at 10:42 pm

         What better system have you got shag?
9. Puckish Rogue 9

   31 July 2019 at 2:04 pm

   Don't know if I'd vote New Conservative (unless Jude became leader then obviously I would) but this is better then what Labour have done, its more thought out, fairer and will actually address some of the issues

   New Conservative party

   New Conservative takes constructive feedback on our policies very seriously. Here is our latest on Firearms:

   FIREARMS POLICY

   [Deleted and replaced with one simple link; https://www.newconservative.org.nz/firearms-policy ]
   • McFlock 9.1

     31 July 2019 at 3:22 pm

     Lots of stuff to unpack there, even if they weren't a bunch of fucking numpties.

     Still, better without the poetry.

     edit: what about tourist hunters?
     mandatory minimums, wtf?
     Do they want the chchfuck’s live stream uncensored? Why? And that’s not a govt issue, that’s the censor’s office. Like any court suppression issues. Or do they want all the fiveeyes stuff made public too?

     Seriously, what are they on?
10. joe90 10

    31 July 2019 at 3:49 pm

    I guess Republicans have been right all along, they are the party of Reagan.

    The day after the United Nations voted to recognize the People’s Republic of China, then–California Governor Ronald Reagan phoned President Richard Nixon at the White House and vented his frustration at the delegates who had sided against the United States. “Last night, I tell you, to watch that thing on television as I did,” Reagan said. “Yeah,” Nixon interjected. Reagan forged ahead with his complaint: “To see those, those monkeys from those African countries—damn them, they’re still uncomfortable wearing shoes!” Nixon gave a huge laugh.

    […]

    The past month has brought presidential racism back into the headlines. This October 1971 exchange between current and future presidents is a reminder that other presidents have subscribed to the racist belief that Africans or African Americans are somehow inferior. The most novel aspect of President Donald Trump’s racist gibes isn’t that he said them, but that he said them in public.

    The exchange was taped by Nixon, and then later became the responsibility of the Nixon Presidential Library, which I directed from 2007 to 2011. When the National Archives originally released the tape of this conversation, in 2000, the racist portion was apparently withheld to protect Reagan’s privacy. A court order stipulated that the tapes be reviewed chronologically; the chronological review was completed in 2013. Not until 2017 or 2018 did the National Archives begin a general rereview of the earliest Nixon tapes. Reagan’s death, in 2004, eliminated the privacy concerns. Last year, as a researcher, I requested that the conversations involving Ronald Reagan be rereviewed, and two weeks ago, the National Archives released complete versions of the October 1971 conversations involving Reagan online.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-reagans-racist-conversation-richard-nixon/595102/
    • In Vino 10.1

      31 July 2019 at 7:20 pm

      Well, they do now admit that Reagan had dementia. Does Trump by any chance have anything in common with Reagan?
11. A 11

    31 July 2019 at 4:53 pm

    If you know anyone with ME/CFS/Tapanui 'Flu that is being put through CBT and graduated exercise PLEASE send them and most importantly their doctor to the link below. There are many inside the DHBs who are wasting health $ abusing clients with these treatments on the basis of this PACE study – It’s not even science 🙁
12. roblogic 12

    31 July 2019 at 5:41 pm

    Weird shit happening at our Universities:

    AUT scraps Tiananmen Square event

    Female activist knocked to the ground as Hong Kong/China tensions spill over at University of Auckland

    Beijing supporters plan anti-Hong Kong protest at Auckland Uni

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