The Blue Green oxymoron

Written By: mickysavage - Date published: 9:18 am, January 28th, 2019 - 252 comments
Categories: Deep stuff, Environment, greens, national, Politics, same old national, Simon Bridges, spin, sustainability, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: erica stanford, vernon tava

There has been a lot of conjecture recently on the possibility of no friends National creating a puppet party like ACT so that it has friends. Except this one would try and create warm obligation free fuzzies about the environment. Although as Idiot Savant puts it in his particularly direct way the party would be a farce:

[I]f they do, then its a clear signal that the party isn’t really green. Because National’s policies of supporting the dairy, oil and trucking industries, sucking the rivers dry, and dragging their feet on climate change in the name of “balance” with economic growth are inherently anti-environment, and any environmentally-minded voter can see that.
Which makes their “BlueGreen” astroturf idea laughable – the only people it convinces are people who don’t understand environmental issues at all. But like Colin Craig, Kim Dotcom and Gareth Morgan, they probably think they can simply throw money at the problem and buy the votes they need, with a fallback of hoping to buy enough votes away from the actual Green Party to drive them out of Parliament – a deeply undemocratic goal. But unlike National, I think environmentally-minded voters are smart enough not to fall for it.

This is nothing new. The Blue Greens have been part of National for a while and have failed because National’s environmental credentials are so poor.

Likely leader Vernon Tava says that it is not an astroturf exercise and has not spoken to any National MPs about it. Not even his good friend Erica Stanford. I am sure that if something happened to her career he would not want National to do an ACT Epsom type deal. And of course he has not spoken to her or any other National MP about this. Of course not. Right wing political activists never chat about such things like how to restore National to its divinely mandated role.

In this Radio New Zealand interview he said that when he challenged the Green’s leadership in 2015 he asked the question if the Greens were a left wing party.

Yep he was surprised that the party of Rod Donald, Jeanette Fitzsimons and Sue Bradford cared so much about poor people. And would not contemplate supporting National.

Bridges thinks the party is a good idea because it is not fair that the Environmental Party has been hijacked by environmentalists. From Radio New Zealand:

But he said he agreed with Mr Tava that it was not fair any one party should have a monopoly on environmental concerns in New Zealand.
“At the moment you have a Green Party that very much is to the left of Labour, it will only go with Labour, there will be a group of New Zealanders there … who say ‘well actually, they’re not representing me’.”
Mr Bridges said the party would be a potentially valuable addition but it would need to be organic and to drive itself.
Mr Bridges said he has heard from New Zealanders about “the tragedy of a Green Party in name, but is to the left of Labour and is not able to get the wins to the environment that would be there were they to sit in the middle”.
Mr Bridges said it was very early days in regards to such a new environmental party and at this stage nothing was either on or off the table.

National has talked about this for a while. As pointed out by Idiot Savant its major problem is that its record on the environment is so appalling.

What can be the motiovation?

Presuming the party is launched the various possibilities are:

It fails completely.
National gives it a lifeline seat and it creates a degree of political confusion. Mission accomplished.
It fails and takes more votes off National than the Greens. The Greens survive.
It fails but takes more votes off National than the Greens and the Greens dip below 5%. Mission accomplished.
It succeeds. The farming lobby and the coal industry and oil industry rejoice although they will also rejoice if possibility 4 occurs.

National is really hurting over the fact that it is the “biggest” party and is not in Government thanks to those pesky smaller parties whose votes should not count. I suspect that driving the Greens to under 5% is a big part of National’s thinking.

I suspect this is a story that will develop over the next few months.

Twitter has some of the best analysis:

So basically a Blue Green Party is one which cares about the environment but makes no effort to help it.
— Jo (@phdwahine) January 27, 2019

Vernon Tava says NZ deserves more choice because the only environmentalist party is "a long way to the left".

Could this be maybe – just stick with me here Vern – because decades of right-wing politics has largely contributed to fucking the environment? #BlueGreenShamParty
— Ben G (@aotearoa_ben) January 27, 2019

https://twitter.com/Dovil/status/1089295803057729536

https://twitter.com/TristanRS/status/1089357665187258368

https://twitter.com/nealejones/status/1089291373910548480

The use of the word ‘movement’ is absurd and highlights the problem. Every long-term smaller party – NZF, Greens, even ACT have organically formed based on genuine community movements. This is an artificial construction for electoral purposes. https://t.co/tT0XJSUFrl
— Michael Wood (@michaelwoodnz) January 27, 2019

252 comments on “The Blue Green oxymoron ”

Comments are now closed

Michelle 1

28 January 2019 at 9:37 am

he wont get in another idiot we already have enough
- xanthe 1.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 2:57 pm
  
  what about a green green party! Now that woild get my vote and a tsunami of others
  
  Make no mistake the “greens” are not languishing at 6% because they are green but because they are not!
- Michael 1.2
  
  29 January 2019 at 4:41 am
  
  It can’t be correct to hold monopoly at all. Live entrepreneurship moves this world forward. Government should definitely support smaller parties because its hard for them to cope with bigger ones . For example my friend http://myfolio.com/NathanLuise told me to always try hard nevertheless the consequences of the result.
  ” It’s better to regret what you have done than what you haven’t.”
  
  ― Paul Arden,
Alan 2

28 January 2019 at 9:38 am

scared? you should be
Morrissey 3

28 January 2019 at 9:47 am

Listening to Vernon Tava this morning, the emphasis is definitely on “moron” rather than “oxy.”
Bewildered 4

28 January 2019 at 9:52 am

Greens and Nzf will be packing themselves, a true environmental party green all the way through that will work on both left and right will shaft the watermelon party royally even if it only picks up 1 pr 2pc. Further more a resurgent Conservative party will do the same to Winston first who won’t have the advantage of opposition to spout his bs, Fun days ahead
- mickysavage 4.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 10:07 am
  
  Can you identify what National’s environmental credentials are?
  - Bewildered 4.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 10:14 am
    
    It’s Vernon credentials and who he builds his party with that matters, he has also indicated he will work with both sides of the house which is big political advantage over the watermelons
    - Robert Guyton 4.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 10:21 am
      
      What are Vernon’s credentials, Bewildered and why is he having to build his party with another, when he’s claiming to be “willing to work with all parties”?
    - mickysavage 4.1.1.2
      
      28 January 2019 at 10:48 am
      
      I quite like watermelons.
      - Andre 4.1.1.2.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 3:03 pm
        
        Would you still like them if they were green all the way through?
        
        mickysavage 4.1.1.2.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 9:42 pm
        
        Haha possibly not to eat …
    - You_Fool 4.1.1.3
      
      29 January 2019 at 8:51 am
      
      But how does this new “blue-Green” party work with National and keep anything resembling green credentials?
      
      I mean if the plan is for them to work with either side, then both sides need to be able to work with them, i.e. have green positive policies… Unfortunately one side currently does not have that, which is why, coincidentally, the green-greens don’t go with National…
    - Visubversa 4.1.1.4
      
      31 January 2019 at 4:52 pm
      
      Since when has greasy opportunism and waka jumping been counted as credentials? The Nats won’t respect him in the morning either.
- Marcus Morris 4.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 10:15 am
  
  You really are bewildered. I was closely involved with the Green party for some years before returning to the Labour fold (as so many Greens have done in the last eighteen months). I would be amazed if this so called Blue/Green party, if it ever gets any traction, attracts more than a handful of Green supporters, if any at all. Any support will come from “bewildered and befuddled” Nat supporters
  - Bearded Git 4.2.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 2:56 pm
    
    real Greens would not support this Labour Party
    - soddenleaf 4.2.1.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 9:56 am
      
      reasons? That they’d vote for a Green party that can work with the big polluter party?
      
      German has two business parties, it ain’t doing so badly. A neolib and an available to work with the left party. It’s because nobody can see the relative support for the neolib wing. Australia has two, Nats and libs. So this new Green party needs to target the NAt vote, be a NAt light.
  - Pat 4.2.2
    
    28 January 2019 at 8:44 pm
    
    It may not attract many current Green supporters but I wouldnt dismiss it entirely….I suspect there is a base for a less socially conscious but environmentally focused party, and theres only one way to find out for sure.
    
    The real question is who they take their support from…my suspicion is it will largely be a straight transfer from National…so a zero sum game
    - You_Fool 4.2.2.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 12:10 pm
      
      I am worried that it’s true purpose is to try and get 1-2% of green party support, to drop Greens below 5%… whether or not it gets a seat itself will then become irrelevant as it’s job will have occurred (TOP party anyone?)
      - Pat 4.2.2.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 2:18 pm
        
        to drop GP below threshold they would have to take 20% or more of current GP support….possible but is it likely?
        
        Pat 4.2.2.1.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 9:02 pm
        
        who are you quoting?…and what is its relevance to my comment?
  - Booker 4.2.3
    
    29 January 2019 at 2:03 pm
    
    “Any support will come from “bewildered and befuddled” Nat supporters”
    
    This. Unless, or until, the National party acknowledge the overwhelming scientific evidence that the climate is changing and human activity is the cause, any Blue-Green party or coalition is a pipe dream, and anyone who really cares about the environment knows this.
    
    At the moment this “party” seems to be nothing more than Vernon, who has already failed to get into parliament in two parties and seems desperate to make his wish come true.
    
    The Nats seem to be far more interested in fomenting the false idea that the Greens won’t work with them and crying “waaaah not fair!”. When in reality it’s them who are refusing not only to work with the Greens but still think they know better than the world’s scientists.
- Robert Guyton 4.3
  
  28 January 2019 at 10:23 am
  
  Bewildered, how do you think this proposed/imagined “true environmental party green all the way through” will vote on a cannabis bill, or one on euthanasia? How will they determine their positions? Those are not “green all the way through” issues.
  - You_Fool 4.3.1
    
    29 January 2019 at 12:11 pm
    
    Maybe they will abstain on those votes… I mean it isn’t like National complained about the Greens abstaining on votes from 2005-2008
    - Robert Guyton 4.3.1.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 2:11 pm
      
      Who’d vote for a party that planned to abstain on all issues that weren’t “core environmental” issues?
      - You_Fool 4.3.1.1.1
        
        30 January 2019 at 8:25 am
        
        National party strategists ‘ theoretical voters?
Dennis Frank 5

28 January 2019 at 9:58 am

A good overview, MS. Time again to recycle Yogi Berra: deja vu all over again. The re-run of the post 2014 election theorising, which featured Gareth Morgan’s call for a bluegreen part to be formed. Same rationale.

So what’s new about it? National’s desperation. Scepticism about Vernon’s claim to have had no discussions with Nat MPs is understandable, but he’s always struck me as a straight-shooter. If true, it suggests either naivety (unlikely) or a genuine impetus derived from holiday brainstorming sessions with unidentified folks.

I pointed out the groundswell feasibility on Open Mike. But that ain’t new! What’s missing from the picture is market research. We don’t have a measure of the percentage of the electorate who are insufficiently attached to National via tribalism, or insufficiently attached to the Greens via leftism. The numbers involved seem huge if you use the 80% indicator from the recent poll as a guide. But they need a sufficiently powerful magnet to make them actually switch their vote.

The smartest option for National is to tell their bluegreen MPs to agree amongst themselves on who ought to go with Vernon, and Bridges ought to use his leadership to persuade caucus to vote in favour of them doing so. A democratic mandate would be a sound basis for success, particularly if they authorised use of the bluegreen brand.
- lprent 5.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 11:17 am
  
  National party has never been happy with shedding MPs or voters. And they are a conservative party. I don’t think that they will change now.
  
  It’d be interesting to see if they can learn this late to sacrifice for power.
  - Dennis Frank 5.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:35 am
    
    Yes, precisely! So there’s a battle looming in National: conservatives vs pragmatists. I’m betting on the pragmatists defeating the conservatives, but I agree it’ll be a close call. Key behind-the-scenes advisor: Simon Upton. “In April 2017, he was appointed by Parliament to be the next Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment.”
  - Michelle 5.1.2
    
    29 January 2019 at 11:30 am
    
    national are a conservative party when it suits them to be one. To say sarah dowie has been an effective politicians (soimon said) when she has spent the last 2 years on her back having an affair with her work colleague is not acting very conservative or along the lines of conservativism. Southland has an ageing population are they happy with their representative carrying on like this cause her carry on is not very professional or of the high standard or conduct you would expect from someone in her position and in a party that prides itself on high standards and is quick to judge others. Its seems morals are no longer important.
mauī 6

28 January 2019 at 10:00 am

Tava talks about addressing the water quality crisis, biodiversity loss and pest control issues in his interview.

Um… that’s what the Green party is already doing and from Government a-hole lol.
- Wayne 6.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 1:00 pm
  
  While it might be true that the Green Party is doing these things it has also said it will only ever go left. The membership is totally opposed to National as in fact this post by MS demonstrates. A Green Party that could go either left or right would be better.
  
  However there is no prospect that I can see that another Green Party can get 5%, and MS knows perfectly well they would never get gifted a seat.
  
  So unless there is a major shift in voting behaviour this is going nowhere. A new Green Party is unlikely (though it is possible) to drive the existing Green Party under 5%. Surely just about all existing Green Party voters are left.
  
  The most likely new 5% party would be a Christian Conservative party. They have come close twice before (1996, 2014) but the “brand” is surely severely damaged by Craig’s ructions.
  - Adrian 6.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 1:11 pm
    
    They have been damaged because a significant number of any of the ” Christian ” party leaders have subsequently been found to be kiddy-fiddlers.
    Don’t expect anything different of any new iteration. Just arrest the sanctimonious arseholes as soon as they put their hand up.
  - Sacha 6.1.2
    
    28 January 2019 at 1:24 pm
    
    “A Green Party that could go either left or right would be better.”
    
    Better for who?
    - Enough is Enough 6.1.2.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 11:00 am
      
      Better for anyone who wants the Environment to be front and centre of every government’s agenda.
      
      At some point in the future National will lead the government. It would be better that when that time comes a “Green” party acts as hand brake on their more idiotic policies.
      
      A National Party with no such influence is a very dangerous beast indeed
  - Dennis Frank 6.1.3
    
    28 January 2019 at 1:46 pm
    
    Surely just about all existing Green Party voters are left
    
    I’ve dealt with that misapprehension here in years past, but here goes again. In 2015 Russel Norman led a conference session in which he conducted a straw poll of attendees (I counted 65). It split 2:1 on the identity question of whether members self-identified as neither right nor left, or leftist.
    
    I took that as representative of Green voters, because the Green movement was apolitical back when I first became part of it. Then the Values Party schismed as a result of an emerging twin tribes divide. I had already rejected both sides of the establishment long before that, so have long been an advocate of triangulation, and now the third tribe is a dormant force sufficiently large in number to change everything.
  - Bearded Git 6.1.4
    
    28 January 2019 at 3:04 pm
    
    The core Green vote is 7 to 9 per cent….pretty solid…if the Greens could get over 5 per cent at the last election after the MT disaster they will never fail UNLESS like the German greens they move to the centre
Nic181 7

28 January 2019 at 10:04 am

Interestingly, Blue-Green Algae are also known as the Cyanobacteria. Included in this group are the toxic algae. I cannot think of a better name for a party to support National. “The Blue-Green Toxic Algae” Party. Perfect partners for the National Party and in line with their view on the environment.
- marty mars 7.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 10:14 am
  
  + 1 yep
  
  I also think people are dreaming if they think this will help the environment in any way. This is designed to muddy the waters and ensure less gets done and some individuals make massive money.
  - Bewildered 7.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 10:30 am
    
    Nup way more effective as not simply reliant on a labour government All people care about the environment not just hard left virtue signallers
    - marty mars 7.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 11:12 am
      
      Rubbish. All people don’t care. The gnats don’t care. It is just positioning and bullshit. We all know it but the thick righties will pretend just like they do about ao much.
    - Robert Guyton 7.1.1.2
      
      28 January 2019 at 11:17 am
      
      Did John Key care about the environment?
      Did Bill English care about the environment?
      Did Gerry Brownlee care about the environment?
      Does Simon Bridges care about the environment?
      - Bewilderd 7.1.1.2.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 11:34 am
        
        Yes to all questions
        
        Robert Guyton 7.1.1.2.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 11:37 am
        
        What examples of their decisions can you give to support your assertion?
        
        greywarshark 7.1.1.2.1.2
        
        28 January 2019 at 1:46 pm
        
        What to expect from bewildered – a pussy or (pusy) yes-man to the Right.
        
        Bewildered …
        
        28 January 2019 at 2:26 pm
        
        Keyboard warrior talk greywarshark, only one pussy in this debate with a slightly fishy smell to boot 👍
        
        Grey Area …
        
        28 January 2019 at 6:43 pm
        
        You haven’t answered Robert’s question.
- WeTheBleeple 7.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 12:17 pm
  
  The cyan party. Sighin’ party.
  - Dennis Frank 7.2.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 1:14 pm
    
    Turquoise, more likely. Cyan has more green in it. And probably more grunting than sighing. I’m old enough to remember when it was the primary form of male communication. In the hinterland, probably has been passed down a couple of generations as part of the macho scene.
    - RedLogix 7.2.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 1:21 pm
      
      A well timed, heartfelt grunt can speak volumes 🙂
      - Robert Guyton 7.2.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 1:32 pm
        
        We’ve seen 2001-a space odyssey, sure!
  - greywarshark 7.2.2
    
    28 January 2019 at 1:47 pm
    
    WtB
    Firing on all cylinders – zoom. Lol.
- Bearded Git 7.3
  
  28 January 2019 at 3:05 pm
  
  +100
- mary_a 7.4
  
  28 January 2019 at 3:27 pm
  
  Brilliant @ Nic181 (7). Love it.
  
  Perfect name for the murky blue/green sludge lurking at the bottom of the fetid swamp 🙂
Ad 8

28 January 2019 at 10:06 am

Any policies?

They’d be useful if they just pressured the current government who, other than a bit more money for Conservation, continue to do fuck all for the environment whether it’s in water management and regulation, electricity generation and regulation, more national parks or conservation areas, any marine reserves, decreasing fishing quota, or much else.
- Robert Guyton 8.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 10:19 am
  
  “They’d be useful if they just pressured the current government”
  May as well be a lobby group then. The Greens already exert as much pressure as possible from within the Government. Or do you somehow think they’ve abandoned all their principles and policies for a comfortable salary and seat? I don’t believe that for a moment.
  - Ad 8.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 10:26 am
    
    Outside a less-than-expected budgetary increase for Conservation, what exactly have the Greens improved in our environment?
    
    Go right ahead.
    - Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 10:29 am
      
      I take it then, Ad, you do believe, as I asked above, that “they’ve abandoned all their principles and policies for a comfortable salary and seat? ” and not exerted ” as much pressure as possible from within the Government”?
      You haven’t answered those kindly-put questions before firing off your own – would you care to?
      - Ad 8.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:51 am
        
        I believe Green Party Members of Parliament and Ministers are people.
        Mere people.
        
        That means they have a smidgen of principle, substantial ego, and a focused self interest no different to any other MP.
        
        Pull the veil from your eyes and look at those MPs dispassionately.
        
        What you are unable to do outside of meekly personalizing their feelings, is hold them to account according to their results.
        
        They have very, very little.
        Which puts whatever you impute of their principles into the reality of changing New Zealand for the good. That is I expect what you voted them in for.
        
        And yes, when we are paying their salary, that matters.
        
        Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 11:22 am
        
        “What you are unable to do outside of meekly personalizing their feelings, is hold them to account according to their results.”
        Meekly? Do you know any of the Green MPs, AD, past and present.
        I do and did. The principles and beliefs of individual MPs is at the heart of how a party behaves. You’re railing at your perception that The Greens haven’t achieved much for the environment is firstly, questionable, secondly, subject to factors you seem unwilling to consider (it takes time etc.) and completely ignores the calibre and qualities of the MPs involved. You just seem disgruntled .
        
        Dennis Frank …
        
        28 January 2019 at 1:19 pm
        
        Well, he’s a Labour supporter. How could he ever be gruntled? But I agree with him that realism is the best frame for viewing the GP situation, and agree with you that they are good people doing their best.
        
        greywarshark …
        
        28 January 2019 at 1:59 pm
        
        Yeah as Red Logix says a good ‘grunt’ can speak volumes. The Greens can’t afford to be thinking in disgruntled mode like Ad. They have to push shit uphill like Sisyphus.
        
        Hard work for little recognition and long lead-up times for projects with barriers galore; hard work, and dirty but someone has to do it and keep on keeping on. Thank goodness for the Greens. They aren’t fabulous like the Gnats. Or awkwardly placed like Labour straddling the class divide, leaning to the academic theories and the middle to upper class, and at the same time spouting concern for the working man and woman, and denying Labour’s role in the growth of the unemployed and working poor class with diminishing welfare and support just when they need it.
        
        Meanwhile the Greens persist in doing the unglamorous grunt work for the environment and trying to retain some of the old fizz for better treatment of women and parents.
        
        Ad …
        
        28 January 2019 at 2:18 pm
        
        Don’t worry I have plenty of grunt. Greens show they have none in government at all.
        
        Every politician uses a few principles. And as the Greens showed before the election and after the coalition was formed, once those are used, they have others.
        
        As the Prime Minister says regularly, what gets measured, gets done.
        Best for the Greens not to put any measures over their work.
        
        Raise your expectations of your party, Robert, and actual environmental improvement is more likely to occur.
        
        We do it regularly in Labour.
        
        Meantime, we’ll keep carrying your lot through to 2020 like the political passengers they show themselves to be.
        
        Bearded Git …
        
        28 January 2019 at 3:08 pm
        
        Sounds like tribal LP bollocks to me
        
        patricia bremner …
        
        28 January 2019 at 8:37 pm
        
        Ad this divide is exactly what the gnats want.
      - Jenny - How to get there? 8.1.1.1.2
        
        28 January 2019 at 12:39 pm
        
        Sure, why not.
        
        Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1.2.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 12:52 pm
        
        Well, yes, none of us should be complacent but disgruntlement isn’t necessarily a good driver for change and certainly doesn’t rally the troops, in my view. We all know our leaders, and they are us, are way behind the play, but will grizzling about those who made it to the dizzying heights of Central Government help matters?
  - Jenny - How to get there? 8.1.2
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:51 am
    
    The Greens already exert as much pressure as possible from within the Government.
    
    Robert Guyton
    
    Really?
    
    The Green Party are not exerting as much pressure as possible within the government. Instead the Green Party leadership are spending a lot of their political capital sucking up to the National Party for a climate accord.
    
    I and others have lobbied various Green MPs to raise in parliament through private member bills, and other parliamentary means, removing the Andarko Amendment that makes it illegal to protest deep sea oil exploration and drilling.
    
    The Green MPs we approached after initially being quite warm to the idea, suddenly changed tack and flatly refused to do anything to remove the Anadarko Amendment.
    
    I and others have lobbied various Green MPs, to raise in parliament through private member bills, and other parliamentary means, removing the amendment to the RMA that makes it illegal to raise climate change as an objection in planning hearings.
    
    The Green MPs we approached after initially being quite warm to the idea, suddenly changed tack and flatly refused to do anything to remove the amendment to the RMA that makes it illegal to raise climate change evidence as an objection in planning hearings.
    
    Initially discussions with some Green MPs, on parliamentary action to remove these two above iniquitious laws relating to climate change, were going well – that is, until the order came from on high to shut down all discussion on any parliamentary action by any Green MP aimed removing these two laws. The reason that we were given was that action to repeal these two laws would damage sensitive discussions with the National Party over a climate accord.
    
    That and the complete invisibility of the Green Party leadership from public life and political discourse does possibly open up a space for something else.
    
    But I cannot see any room on the political spectrum for a Blue/Green Party. We already have one.
    - Jenny - How to get there? 8.1.2.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 12:00 pm
      
      P.S. I might add here Robert, the above abandonment of Parliamentary activism by the Green MPs is one of the reasons, I have asked the Green MPs to at least consider giving a lead outside of parliament, with a ban on domestic air travel.
      - Robert Guyton 8.1.2.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 12:19 pm
        
        ” removing the amendment to the RMA that makes it illegal to raise climate change as an objection in planning hearings.”
        This, btw, is an issue close to my heart and as an elected councillor, I have railed against it on a number of occasions – it’s deeply frustrating. I can see the rationale, but strain at the leash it becomes.
      - Bearded Git 8.1.2.1.2
        
        28 January 2019 at 3:12 pm
        
        blame Labour intransigence here not the Greens
    - Robert Guyton 8.1.2.2
      
      28 January 2019 at 12:17 pm
      
      “The Green Party are not exerting as much pressure as possible within the government. ”
      In your personal opinion. You’ve listed issues you believe The Greens should be acting upon, but you’re not showing how, within the constraints they must be finding themselves, they are doing anything less than is possible. If you can’t know their constraints, you can’t rightly say that they’re not doing everything possible.
      - Jenny - How to get there? 8.1.2.2.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 1:03 pm
        
        You’ve listed issues you believe The Greens should be acting upon, but you’re not showing how, within the constraints they must be finding themselves, they are doing anything less than is possible. If you can’t know their constraints, you can’t rightly say that they’re not doing everything possible.
        
        Hi Robert,
        
        I have tried on many occasions to point out how. I can sum this policy up in one sentence.
        
        “Just as activists must become politicians. Politicians must become activists”
        
        Occasio Cortez, Bernie Sanders, Greta Thunberg, embody this principle.
        
        In the struggle against nuclear ships Labour MPs took to the water in boats to impede the passage of nuclear warships.
        
        Their activism gave great impetus and momentum to the anti-nuclear movement. This movement shifted National Government MPs Mike Minogue and Marilyn Waring to cross the floor and vote with the opposition. Which brought down the Muldoon Government and ushered in the Lange/Douglas administration on a promise of making New Zealand ‘Nuclear Weapons Free’.
        
        Not least in this campaign was the Labour opposition private members bill raised in parliament that highlighted the issue, and brought the matter to a head.
        
        To bring the issue of the Anadarko Amendment to a head in parliament, why can’t the Green MPs bring themselves to put in the ballot a private members bill to remove the Anadarko Amendment?
        
        Seems simple. Don’t you think?
        
        Why can’t the Green MPs do the same for the amendment to the RMA that makes it illegal to raise climate change as an objection in planning hearings?
        
        Something that you say, “…is an issue close to my heart”.
        
        You tell me that I don’t know the constraints that they are working under, that prevents them taking these actions.
        
        “If you can’t know their constraints, you can’t rightly say that they’re not doing everything possible.”
        
        Robert Guyton
        
        Hi Robert, can you tell us what you think these constraints are?
        
        Jenny - How to get there? 8.1.2.2.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 2:13 pm
        
        P.S I am pretty sure I know what their constraints are. (and also how to get around them). But I would like to hear it from you first.
        
        As an elected councillor you must have a few insights into what makes up these “constraints”.
        
        So let’s hear them. And let us discuss if we can work within them, or around them.
        
        Cheers J.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        28 January 2019 at 3:38 pm
        
        Well, Jenny, my point was that the constraints The Greens have to work under are not going to be known or knowable to the general public, due to their complex and subtle natures. I can easily see that even unspoken “rules of engagement” between coalition partners could influence behaviours and levels of courage amongst MPs, influencing decisions made. There will be inter-personal weightings as well, historical incidents, lobbying of various sorts, financial constraints etc. My point being, it’s easy enough to take pot shots at the MPs from a distance, but the details of what constrains them cannot be easily known. It’s a matter of trusting those you give your vote to, making sure that you explore as far as possible, their likely positions and behaviours before electing them, involving yourself with the mechanics of the party, in the case of The Greens, keeping in touch as far as it’s possible with them as they discharge their duties throughout the term, and generally hoping for the best. Your method here of calling them out, poking their borax and demanding they do this and that, is quite valid, but has an air of intolerance about it. That might sit easy with some, but I’m for encouraging the team, publicly at least, as that level of interaction influences not only the MPs but also their supporters.
        
        Andrea …
        
        28 January 2019 at 9:23 pm
        
        “The Greens have to work under are not going to be known or knowable to the general public, due to their complex and subtle natures.”
        
        If the Greens are that patronising (and it would appear that the present crop is so inclined) then one of their damn’ soon missions is to CLARIFY those complex and subtle etc.
        
        Because, if they can’t, then they’re unfit to serve a democracy.
        
        They represent US and we need to be clear that they are doing so for the greater good of all.
        
        Obscure is unhealthy.
        Remind them. If they won’t, and if Labour won’t co-operate in that very worthwhile endeavour, then throw the scoundrels out. We don’t need any more arcane rubbish while the environment we all count on is under massive threat.
        
        PS National is NOT ‘conservative’. Only in name, not in nature.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        28 January 2019 at 9:38 pm
        
        The Greens are not being patronising at all. They are, I believe, discharging their obligations to the best possible extent – they are as good as it gets, so far as acting genuinely and with integrity goes, in my opinion. That there is criticism of their effectiveness from opponents and supporters alike is just politics as usual, I reckon. They are not “being obscure”, it’s just difficult for those of us outside of their caucus to track the full extent of the constraints they face. The environment we all count on has been under serious threat for tens of thousands of years. The Greens have the best story I’ve seen yet, from any political party, on what to do about that. Bagging them for not curing the problem inside of 2 years in Government, is shallow, imo.
        
        gsays …
        
        29 January 2019 at 11:00 am
        
        g’day Robert, I thought the reasons given for allowing the purchase of land and expansion of a water bottling plant in Whakatane, were lacking in imagination and totally reinforcing the status quo.
        
        the balancing act of ‘the law’ and 60 jobs vs green core issues, eg tiriti obligations, water as a taonga, more single use plastic, selling ‘important’ land.
        
        i doubt there would be many green members or voters that approve of the taking of this water.
        
        I accept minister Sage is a good, competent person and minister.
        This was a great opportunity for the greens to demonstrate their credentials, motivate the party membership throughout, and signal there are changes afoot.
        
        who knows what would come if the party, as a whole, worked to come up with soloutions to stymie the water commodifying process.
        requiring the company to demonstrate taking 1.1 billion litres of water annually will have no impact on the aquifer, for example.
        
        what if the minister didn’t follow the law?
        would she be arrested?
        
        again i am critical of the party as a whole on this, not solely the minister.
        the first hurdle once they were in power and they failed.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        29 January 2019 at 2:16 pm
        
        You think Eugenie Sage seeks to totally reinforce the status quo around water bottling, gsays?
- Bewildered 8.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 10:21 am
  
  Spot on, a true Green Party with out baggage of far left crazies will get things done and be able to work with all stakeholders including business way more cohesively without the idealogical left wing nonsense This is especially so with business which is key here re the answer and the problem
  - Robert Guyton 8.2.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 10:26 am
    
    So, Bewildered, a party that lines up with business to improve the environment.
    How might they cooperate with Big Oil, do you think? Fonterra? Coal mining companies? Herbicide manufacturers? The GE industry?
    Keen to hear your views.
    - Ad 8.2.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 10:57 am
      
      You can tell exactly what this government is doing.
      
      Here’s their latest.
      
      It’s called The Aotearoa Circle.
      
      http://www.theaotearoacircle.nz
      
      It will be “a coalition of public and private sector leaders committed to halting and reversing the decline of New Zealand’s natural resources.”
      
      Of course it’s a replacement for the collapse of PureAdvantage.
      
      It has wonderful ambition, flu of the usual bloated rhetoric, with no measures, no specific task, no specific agenda.
      
      It’s a blue-green lobbying group.
      
      Its founding partners are:
      – Air New Zealand
      – Auckland Airport
      – Auckland Council
      – Department of Conservation
      – Designworks
      – EnvirNZ
      – Fonterra
      
      etc etc etc
      
      They are hiring now just in case you’re interested.
      
      But you can totally guarantee that tonnes of money will be spend on consultants, lots of photos with politicians, and fuck all achieved for our environment.
      - Sacha 8.2.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 12:57 pm
        
        “the collapse of PureAdvantage”
        
        Do you have any links about that?
        
        Dennis Frank 8.2.1.1.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 11:17 am
        
        Website thinks it hasn’t collapsed: https://pureadvantage.org/who-we-are/
        
        Other lot are different people: https://www.theaotearoacircle.nz/who-we-are/
Bewilderd 9

28 January 2019 at 10:35 am

Simple, Responsible policy / regulation and supporting innovation Politics of responsibility not Politics of ideology and virtue signalling
- Robert Guyton 9.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 10:43 am
  
  Your comment seems to mean nothing much at all, being vague and unspecific. Perhaps you could describe one regulation “your” party might introduce? And I think you’ll find the present Government, Greens and all, “support innovation”.
  So let’s read something actual from you – so far you sound very airy-fairy, green-wishy-washy – a little “hippy” in fact – do you Morris dance, perchance?
  - Bewildered 9.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:18 am
    
    Sorry robert see 13 for response
roy cartland 10

28 January 2019 at 10:46 am

I’m going to say it.

I think the idea that the right is somehow now willing to even contemplate giving the slightest shit about the environment is a good thing. Yes, it’s a bit of a smokescreen; and no, green and profit-first values are incompatible…

But wouldn’t it be nice to think that the Nats could actually be white-anted into thinking about something other than feeding the corporate trough?
- RedLogix 10.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 1:27 pm
  
  and no, green and profit-first values are incompatible…
  
  You do realise that it’s a peculiarly left wing conceit to imagine that we have an exclusive monopoly on caring about the environment.
  - McFlock 10.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 10:06 pm
    
    Care is one thing.
    
    But the standard right wing mix of market forces and deregulation is incompatible with any effective prevention of negative externalities, including environmental harm. Self-regulation is a joke, trading schemes get gamed, and small subsidiaries and contractors bear the brunt and file for limited liability on the rare occasionas costs can’t be dodged from the start.
    
    It’s not just the environment – anything that gets in the way of a buck. Worker safety, consumer safety, fair trading, it doesn’t matter. Recent history is littered with sidestepped corporate responsibilities.
    
    The individuals might “care”, but caring doesn’t get them an annual or quarterly bonus.
  - Macro 10.1.2
    
    28 January 2019 at 10:36 pm
    
    The point is Red, in a finite world struggling to provide sufficient resources to all peoples in a sustainable manner, profit (which essentially relies on “growth”) is something that must take second place to the equal distribution of goods and services.
    When you provide aid to the children of Somalia – do you expect to make a profit?
    These people are world citizens, just as you and I, and are entitled to their share of the world’s worth, just as is Bill Gates. Obviously we can’t all share that wealth to the extent of Bill Gates – there just is insufficient. Then it becomes a matter for environmental regulation – just how much we can use this or that resource in a sustainable way, in order not to deprive future generations. If we concentrate our thinking on profit first, this flies in the face of environmental concerns. Thus the idea that you can successfully protect the environment whilst still profiting is flawed.
    If the world was not so heavily populated, then that might be ok. Essentially that was the state of affairs and thus the fallacy that Adam Smith and Hume fell into when they laid out the foundations for the modern exposition on Capitalism encapsulated in the “Wealth of Nations” and Hume’s “Treatise on Government”. These were written at the time when England was beginning its colonisation of America, and there was apparently unlimited land for the taking. (lets overlook the ethical problems of indigenous peoples – because of course for the colonists they were not a consideration, as they were not using the land “productively”) World resources were, to all intents and purposes, infinite. But that is no longer the case. The basic assumptions of Adam Smith’s “Wealth of Nations” have been shown to be false.
    At this point in time, we need a far more sustainable economic theory. One which recognises the finite nature of the Earth on which we live, and also values equity. In a world with limited resources, for a few to accumulate vast wealth, is essentially to steal from others, what is rightfully theirs.
    - Andre 10.1.2.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 6:40 am
      
      Profit doesn’t rely on growth. It relies on doing something that adds more value than it costs to add that value. I’m aware of several businesses that have gone on for decades, sometimes growing sometimes shrinking, that have stayed profitable pretty much throughout. They’re pretty much the same size now as they were when I first became aware of them.
      
      Of the people I’m aware that are strongly concerned for the environment, but probably hold their noses and vote Nat despite the Nat environmental vandalism, there are some common threads.
      
      There’s a perception that there’s a vast excess of dumb rules and regulations that are a compliance nightmare and left-leaning governments are almost solely responsible for this. (Whether that perception is accurate is a whole ‘nother topic)
      
      They want to see environmental damage reduced by some kind of market/price based mechanism rather than inflexible regulations.
      
      They have a strong belief in the idea that private companies are more efficient than government, so they generally support privatisation. (Again arguable but a separate topic).
      
      They are strongly bought into the “personal responsibility” frame when it comes to welfare state topics. So they take the occasional story of the solo mum who’s never worked with lots of kids by several different absent fathers as being representative of where most welfare money goes, rather than seeing the reality of small amounts of top-up assistance going to many people struggling to do their best in a system seemingly designed to expressly discourage additional effort.
      
      Talk of lowering income taxes particularly gets their juices flowing. They will generally comment something along the lines of ‘the government takes the rewards from my work to pay people to come tell me some stupid rule that I can’t do what I want, pay welfare queens to lie around and breed, waste money pretending to do stuff a private company would do in half the time and half the cost … ‘
      
      We could argue forever about how wrong-headed those right wing ideas are. But they aren’t anti-environmental and they aren’t anti-sustainable in and of themselves. But they are very incompatible with left ideals.
  - Roy cartland 10.1.3
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:06 pm
    
    @RL
    Yes, I’ve heard that suggestion thrown about, it’s just a straw-man argument. Of course we all care, or at least say we do, which is true in an abstract way. The difference is: does the right care enough to compromise any of their other principles? Actions would say not – the environmental positives from the Nat govt were either instigated by greens, or used as an excuse against other interests (such as the kermadec sanc – “fine, have a sanctuary, but it can be in someone else’s back yard”).
    
    Incidentally caring about the environment, if it doesn’t touch one’s precious personal rights to do as one pleases, is not quite the same as putting the environment first.
    - RedLogix 10.1.3.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 5:02 am
      
      OK so now do a mind experiment; let’s privilege the environment above human activity. The exact opposite of what we do now.
      
      For a start we wouldn’t be typing this out on the internet. The way we live our modern lives would be an entirely different, materially primitive, compromise.
      
      Right wing priorities certainly do compromise the environment, but they are also what ensure our current systems continue to function. This is a point I see the left overlook all the time; we dream of utopian futures, but persist in overlooking the essential miracle of where we are right now.
      
      This doesn’t mean we can stand still; it’s obvious the Second Industrial Revolution based on fossil carbon is unstable, we must move on from it. But implying we must first collapse back to the Stone Age is absurd.
      
      Socialism and capitalism are the familiar, twin political engines of the era we have just lived through, but each will be transformed when our technologies enable it into something we cannot yet recognise. Just as a Roman grain merchant could have no inkling of say the NYSE.
      
      The left persists in getting cause and effect inverted, we like to imagine it was a social revolution that ended slavery, or emancipated women, but in reality it was science, tech and engineering that enabled these social movements to have effect. If we project this simple observation forward, it will be the technology transformations of the Third Industrial revolution that will enable capitalism and socialism to evolve into new more efficient forms, that hopefully will not impose such a human cost onto the natural world.
      - Dennis Frank 10.1.3.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 6:16 am
        
        You could broaden the meaning of tech into know-how (gnosis). De-materialising it gets you down to a more fundamental level. What is defeating progressive politics, in this frame, is not any obvious enemy, it’s stale thinking.
        
        I do agree that tech powers progress – anyone who reads history sees how inexorable it is. But if we focus on how mind-sets lock people into recycling tradition ad nauseum, we can see that changing our minds is the pre-requisite to making progress happen.
        
        Paradigm-shifting is the frame that caught on in the eighties. MMP was the obvious consequence in our politics. The rainbow coalition was a seventies frame that was likewise transformational. So progressive politicos must focus on what stances & syndromes are preventing progress, and start shifting them to catalyse progress.
        
        As I’ve mentioned several times in the past here, this leads us to the unexplored mental terrain of political psychology. We ought to pioneer development of this field, I reckon. Forget the academics, they clearly have been unable to cope with the cerebral challenge! 😎
        
        RedLogix 10.1.3.1.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 8:34 am
        
        Yes … I’m not discounting the importance of social movements. For 10,000’s years there must have been countless slave revolts, but until coal and steam made slavery economically obsolete, nothing changed.
        
        But suddenly an important and impassioned campaign in Britain ended it.
        
        It’s worth noting that conservative minded people by nature (and we can be grateful to them for this) keep our existing systems going, but when the ground shifts under us all, they need convincing to shift. And the legitimate role of the left is to catalyse this shift.
        
        We are an intensely social creature, and when our story (paradigm if you will) changes, we can transform with remarkable speed and energy.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        29 January 2019 at 8:47 am
        
        At this point in time we are paralysed by comfort and our ears stuffed with cotton wool. We don’t want to, and can’t hear any story other than the one whispering to us in our heads, “Stay warm, stay safe”.
        
        roy cartland …
        
        29 January 2019 at 9:11 am
        
        Sure, RL, I’ve done that thought experiment. But I think you’ve highlighted a couple of the fundamental problems of the right:
        “they are also what ensure our current systems continue to function”
        current systems in this sense conflates the infrastructure we enjoy with the massive profits extracted for a few AND environmental degradation. I don’t believe that we can’t have the one without the others.
        
        Which leads to the second point:
        The argument you’ve put forward feels like that disingenuous one that’s always levelled at the Greens: “They’ll have us back to horses and carts!”
        Well, no. Green thinking is about investigating newer tech, not clinging to the old. But while so much human energy is wasted lining the pockets of shareholders and “owners” of IP – since workers have to fund these parties as well as their own wages – the momentum gets stymied every time.
        
        And back to the original point – there’s enough labour, enough knowledge but not enough will: certain parties just don’t want to work and would rather just spend that energy protecting their own patch.
        
        greywarshark …
        
        29 January 2019 at 9:43 am
        
        What’s the catalyst for change. Is it just money and power, and comfort and the good life as defined at the time. The poor people may concentrate on the basics, stay warm, stay safe, but the ambitious will charge through with ideas that need financial and implementation input and will get that input, even exploiting the poor if need be. If there is a counter-meme circulating that can be appealed to, some change may be organised by social conditions heroes.
        
        But it is hard work getting people to limit their ambitions for attractive outcomes for themselves, and enabling others from a lower financial strata to step up a notch. It needs the ambitious to see the connections of their resources and power to advantage, and their understanding that a healthy economy spreads that around more widely (distribution).
        
        This group of economists will have something useful to say about distribution economics. The ‘Institute for New Economic Thinking’.
        https://www.ineteconomics.org/research/programs/political-economy-of-distribution
        
        Most mainstream approaches towards inequality explain growing inequality primarily as a labor market phenomenon conditioned by one of four developments:
        (1) skill-biased technological change;
        (2) liberalization of labor markets;
        (3) winner-take all markets for “superstars”; and
        (4) globalization, where this is taken primarily to mean increased competition for unskilled labor.
        We bring together researchers to offer a complementary but neglected hypothesis: that historically changing institutions, legal frameworks, and structural features of the economy are key causes of inequality.
Bazza64 11

28 January 2019 at 10:48 am

I’m sure there is room for a Green party that doesn’t lean as left as the current one. A lot of people sympathise with the green position, but won’t vote green as they get all the other left wing stuff with it. Some of the older Green party members resigned over the party’s support of Metiria Turei during her over claiming of benefits. These were long term members who thought the Green party had lost its way & its original purpose.
- roy cartland 11.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 10:57 am
  
  Can you elaborate please? What “other left wing stuff”?
  
  (BTW, I understand they didn’t exactly resign over MT “claiming benefits”.)
  - Bazza64 11.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:06 am
    
    Why can’t the greens be more green ?
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97083457/why-cant-the-greens-be-more-green
    
    Re MT benefits – should have said her historic benefit fraud
    - roy cartland 11.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 12:15 pm
      
      That article doesn’t really explain much. Of course everyone wants a pretty environment, but when the most un-green businesses are based on mining (including mining the value out of land and leaving shit in its place) the two can’t co-exist.
      
      Maybe that’s the issue – the Greens see that as self-evident (because it is), hence their social justice platforming.
- Jess NZ 11.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 11:08 am
  
  There just isn’t room.
  
  The current Green Party is made up of various counterculture cause parties that teamed up because none of them had the numbers.
  
  So yes, you have the ‘pure’ environmentalists who think poor people only have themselves to blame and technology will save the earth if we just invest enough into green business, and you have the lefties who want the universal income but don’t care what car you drive, and everything in between where the social and environmental are all connected. And they all fight amongst themselves and drag each other down.
  
  And then National win. Let’s not go there….
  - Bazza64 11.2.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:17 am
    
    Yep Jess you’re probably right that in small country can’t get enough people to form a pure environmental party, so there will always be a mix.
    - Incognito 11.2.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 9:48 pm
      
      I don’t think that’s what Jess NZ was saying.
      
      In any case, it’s not the size of the country (as in: population or electorate) but the lay of the (political) land IMO. Our country is relatively isolated from the political scene in Europe, for example. Although we may have ‘imported’ MMP from Germany and technically implemented it here, it’s still relatively young and hasn’t yet delivered the political diversity that is one of its purported advantages (over FPP).
      
      Denmark has a population only slightly larger than ours (but no MMP). It has 175 MPs, currently nine parties represented in Parliament, and a 2% electoral threshold. In my opinion, our 5% threshold is way too high and one of the main reasons why we haven’t seen more party diversity in our Parliament.
      
      It seems that the strategy behind a Blue-Green party in NZ is to pull the Green Party below the 5% threshold. The result would be that the environment will lose possibly its strongest defender in Parliament. How the BG voters will reconcile this will be very interesting indeed.
      - greywarshark 11.2.1.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 9:55 am
        
        Incognito and others
        What do you think would be a reasonable level of voting for admission to Parliament. 5% is a high barrier. A small drop to 4% would be safe. But should we go to 2% like Denmark. How would that affect our politics here?
        It seems to me our politicians are more volatile and confused than those of Denmark. We have a subversive, wild west inclination that arises; the abrupt change in 1984 is an example.
        
        No judicious thinking there; driven more by emotion and the knowledge of worldwide financial changes approaching. We need to make changes they thought. What about us being in at the first, introduce it while we are in power and have the opportunity, Treasury leading us, and the assistance from overseas economic planners. Let’s show we can skinny-dip in ice-cold water beyond our depth the plotters thought.
Morrissey 12

28 January 2019 at 10:49 am

Hard to imagine a more craven, cynical and dishonest campaign than this.

They think people are stupid.
- Bewildered 12.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 11:14 am
  
  Yep bit like 100000 kiwi homes, a billion trees, oh by the way we are going to close down and industry, no increase in industrialal action …….agree Mozz people are pretty stupid On political front though this is a smart strategy where the ends “trump” the means for the greater good
- Chris T 12.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 11:34 am
  
  Someone is scared
  - Robert Guyton 12.2.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:44 am
    
    Simon Bridges?
    Scared of what, exactly.
Bewildered 13

28 January 2019 at 11:11 am

I will sit around for 9 years and then form 300 working groups and come back to you in a year, does that work for you Robert ? 😊
- Robert Guyton 13.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 11:26 am
  
  Since you asked, I’d prefer you got out and did something useful, Bewildered, plant some trees or if that’s too “huggy” for you, support someone who does. If you’re rolling in dosh, give some of it away to someone busy improving the environment; they’ll probably not refuse it on the basis of what you’ve been saying here 🙂
  - Bewildered 13.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:38 am
    
    Got nearly 5000sqm of trees Robert, also trapping, doing my bit 👍
    - Robert Guyton 13.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 11:42 am
      
      Good man. Did you vote Green?
      🙂
      - Bewildered 13.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 11:53 am
        
        Unfortunately not but rwnj do care about the environment, hence the arguement they do not is counter productive 👍
        
        Robert Guyton 13.1.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 12:07 pm
        
        I’m not saying they don’t. I do think the “Right” approach to the issue of a degrading environment is the wrong one and in fact exacerbates the problems – burn gas to save the planet!
        
        Gabby 13.1.1.1.1.2
        
        28 January 2019 at 7:01 pm
        
        They want clean water to wash their suvs beewee. The peasants can drink it afterwards at a price.
Jess NZ 14

28 January 2019 at 11:12 am

The current Green Party is made up of various counterculture cause parties that teamed up because none of them had the numbers.

So yes, you have the ‘pure’ environmentalists who think poor people only have themselves to blame and technology will save the earth if we just invest enough into green business, and you have the lefties who want the universal income but don’t care what car you drive, and everything in between where the social and environmental are all connected. And they all fight amongst themselves and drag each other down.

And then National win. Let’s not go there….
- Alan 14.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 11:20 am
  
  yep, you got it
Cinny 15

28 January 2019 at 11:36 am

Trying to contain my laughter, it’s difficult.
- Bewildered 15.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 11:41 am
  
  Hope you sell laughing in 2020 Cinny 😊
  - Robert Guyton 15.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 11:43 am
    
    “Hope you sell laughing in 2020 Cinny”
    I knew it! Righties believe everything has a price!!!
    - Cinny 15.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 11:46 am
      
      Nailed it Robert, well said indeed.
    - Bazza64 15.1.1.2
      
      28 January 2019 at 11:48 am
      
      Think of the GST & taxes the government would rake in ….
      - Cinny 15.1.1.2.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 12:00 pm
        
        GST and taxes on cannabis maybe?
        
        Wonder what the blue/green stance is on that.
    - Bewildred 15.1.1.3
      
      28 January 2019 at 11:55 am
      
      Fair cop
      - Robert Guyton 15.1.1.3.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 12:09 pm
        
        Lucky break. In any case, I’m beginning to enjoy discussing the topic with you, Bewildered, as I think you’re sincere. We all might learn something from each other.
    - WeTheBleeple 15.1.1.4
      
      28 January 2019 at 12:25 pm
      
      I sold laughing. Did well at it too.
      - Robert Guyton 15.1.1.4.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 12:53 pm
        
        So, someone could sit in the audience, contain their mirth, then ask for their money back?
        
        WeTheBleeple 15.1.1.4.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 2:04 pm
        
        Use of the word mirth disqualifies you from a refund.
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        28 January 2019 at 3:41 pm
        
        Dammit! I meant guffaws!
      - greywarshark 15.1.1.4.2
        
        29 January 2019 at 10:01 am
        
        WtB
        Are you on youtube?
        
        WeTheBleeple 15.1.1.4.2.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 11:07 am
        
        No. I find endless self promotion repugnant. But I absolutely adore making people laugh. It’s a toughie but with my insecurities/conditions that cause egoic/social problems already… I opted out of the spotlight. I cringe at that clamoring for attention that is showbiz and all manner of social media but I was directed to participate in it upon a return to the arts. Seems venues expect you to be all over media like an attention whore now so they can clip your popularity ticket. I lasted all of six months then left the industry and social media for several years now. TS is the only format I’m on, that only recent, and not for comedy.
        
        Sparked a rant. Touchy subject. I am an artist! 😀 Baahaaa!
        
        It was easier to run the show, promote my peers and tag along as a byline, that way I got to play but didn’t have to pander to industry or press. I stop for years then return with new stuff.
        
        Nearly time to do a stint again.
        
        ‘Me too. Times have changed. Cook the man some fucken’ eggs is simply not acceptable anymore…
        
        Cook the man some free-range fucken’ eggs.
        
        Yeah bitch, you want me to smash your avocados.’
        
        I know I’m good… 😀
        
        greywarshark …
        
        29 January 2019 at 11:18 am
        
        WtB
        You are certainly good to read, full of useful stuff WtB so if you want to add in a few jokes that is doubly fine with me.
        
        Self-deprecating jokes are the real ones that touch the funny-bone And come from understanding of not only oneself but the general human condition.
- greywarshark 15.2
  
  29 January 2019 at 10:00 am
  
  Cinny
  Don’t please leave us in suspenders – what particular funny thing has tickled you?
Akjs 16

28 January 2019 at 12:02 pm

There’s one thing i have never understood: Apart from the ‘run off’ – which,in my humble naive opinion, could be easily fixed with many options – if heads were put together to work them out (I have workable ideas): Why is it seen as ‘wrong’to support the dairy industry? This is a Vital industry to our country. Milk products and beef are better homegrown than imported. During both Great Wars NZ was the off-shore pantry for Great Britain, without our input they would’ve had it much tougher!
Our dairy industry has been a huge contributor to our export market since it began. I’d prefer to see cows, sheep and farms than concrete jungles. Those who suffer allergies or who are vegan and have their opinions – sure, i respect your ideas but tell me, can you seriously live without milk, cheese, butter, yoghurt? All of which are proven to be beneficial to the human body.
Bones and teeth need these nutrients. I’ve been told by specialists that my healthy intake of dairy, from infancy, contributed to my badly broken knee knitting together in half the time expected and, despite the arthritis and nerve damage, the bone is solid. My teeth are healthy because of dairy intake, as well as oral care, the dentine is in perfect health – i’ve only ever had 4fillings and needed them replaced once, my son is 17 and never had a filling, my brother, who neglected his teeth for years, has very few fillings, strong teeth and bones.
Dairy is an all-in-one food source for many nutrients that the body needs. Science proves that human bodies have evolved to need dairy for health.
I know people who’ve lived without and as they’ve aged they’ve developed severe skeletal issues and their teeth are in very poor condition. They blame fluoride in water, but i have always drunk the same water, as has my family, and many others, i don’t buy into fluoridation being the cause of dental decay – that’s b.s.
I support the need for a dairy industry, instead of not supporting it, we ought to be putting our heads together to become, yet again, ‘the 1st country in the world to’ find a ‘green’ solution to farming. It isnt only dairy farming that causes emissions and run off, and frankly, i dont want to live in a country where there are no farms and i dont want to live in a concrete jungle of roads, highways and selfish attitudes to nature where humans force nature to live around us instead of us respecting nature and living alongside.
We could have both: more nature, better environment and sustainable farming.
Farms could easily be made ‘greener’ and many countries overseas are working towards implementing changes whilst retaining everday oldfashioned farms. And to those who say butter and full milk are bad – it has been scientifically proven to be otherwise.
Keep dairy, just find ways to stop the runoff into waterways, turn the effluent into positive use, plant more trees on farmland, there has to be a way.

As to Blue/Green party – Peacocks have the most beautiful colouring on the outside, however they also have an accurate reputation for pompous displays of ego to gain attention (a trait known in humans as ‘narcissism’). The ‘blues’are a wilfully ignorant lot of ego-driven arrogant fools. They think with tunnel vision and cannot, and will not, use ‘bigger picture’ peripheral thinking. They’ve proved how stupid they are by selling all our assets! Including farmz and forests!! Given these fools half a chance, they’ll sell our lakes and rivers next!!
- Robert Guyton 16.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 12:13 pm
  
  Could you share your “workable ideas” on run off with us/me, Akjs – I’m genuinely interested to hear them. I wonder if t’s the dairy industry, in the form it has taken here in NZ, that people believe is “wrong”, rather than dairying, in the sense of non-industrial farming where care for everything, rather than profit, is the driving factor.
  - Cinny 16.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 12:25 pm
    
    +1
- Cinny 16.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 12:24 pm
  
  Personally am just not into industrial dairy farming, it’s ruining our country.
  
  Greed for the white/gold seems to have clouded the judgement of some.
  
  Yes please more trees on farmland, among other things.
  
  Times they are a changing. We are kidding ourselves if we think dairy is a growth industry anymore.
  
  Growth needs to be put into other industries that aren’t so reliant on the climate.
- Psycho Milt 16.3
  
  28 January 2019 at 12:53 pm
  
  Dairy is excellent food, yes. However, intensifying dairy production to the point where we’re damaging waterways and contributing to the destruction of rainforests (via importing PKE to feed to cows) was a bad idea and environmentalists are right to want it stopped.
  - left_forward 16.3.1
    
    29 January 2019 at 3:45 pm
    
    ‘Dairy is excellent food, yes.’
    For baby cows maybe!
- Gabby 16.4
  
  28 January 2019 at 6:58 pm
  
  Those countries who import dairy from us must disagree on that akjsy.
- greywarshark 16.5
  
  29 January 2019 at 10:04 am
  
  Peacocks make a weird noise that is unpleasant. Some of the Blue Party the same. Rather a good analogy I think.
bwaghorn 17

28 January 2019 at 12:27 pm

Arden better not rule out working with the tava greens .

I bet there is more than a few wealthy green voters in the leafy suburbs who could easily vote for a non socialist green outfit

I guess the nats would see it as a win if all the tava greens achieved was to take enough votes to bury the green party.
- Robert Guyton 17.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 12:56 pm
  
  If they ever get off the ground, they won’t be “anything”greens. The brand’s taken 🙂
  Those wealthy voters in the leafy suburbs who won’t vote socialist – they’d vote for a neo-lib green party?
  - Puckish Rogue 17.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 6:54 pm
    
    Just out of curiosity does anyone know what electorates supply the most Green party votes because I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of their party votes came from middle to wealthy suburbs
    - Andre 17.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 7:04 pm
      
      Knock yourself out.
      
      https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2017/electorate-status.html
      
      Prepare to be unsurprised. The green vote is fairly high in places like Epsom, Auckland Central, Wellington Central, and pretty low in places like Mangere, Manurewa, Dunedin South.
      - Puckish Rogue 17.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 7:15 pm
        
        So this party could, potentially, be very damaging to the Greens.
        
        The next election could be very interesting indeed
        
        McFlock 17.1.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 7:30 pm
        
        lols
        
        Sounds like another political hail mary to me.
        
        Basically, if the BGs are after the voters who don’t like the Green left wing policy but want clean streams, I suspect most of them didn’t vote Green in 2017. But they might have voted blue.
        
        So which electorate do you think the nats will choose to ask to prop up the new party to coattail in some lickspittles? Kick Rimmer out of Epsom? Or maybe Nelson area?
        
        veutoviper …
        
        28 January 2019 at 7:38 pm
        
        Southland. After all Dowie is their current Spokesperson on Conservation (and does have a background in Conservation having worked for DOC). But the bets on her remaining or being successful next election …
        
        And what a dilemma for Robert Guyton. LOL
        
        Stir, stir …
        
        Robert Guyton …
        
        29 January 2019 at 7:44 am
        
        A letter to the editor in today’s Southland Times:
        “Sarah Dowie must resign immediately. We deserve better.”
        P Clifford
        
        Sacha …
        
        28 January 2019 at 8:26 pm
        
        Maybe Nelson? Nuck Smith for deputy!
        
        Dennis Frank 17.1.1.1.1.2
        
        28 January 2019 at 7:45 pm
        
        “Our Bluegreens caucus has grown from the two founding members in 1998 to the current diverse team.” https://bluegreens.national.org.nz/about_bluegreens
        
        “New Zealand’s environment is at the core of our quality of life, our national identity, and our competitive advantage. .. Good environmental practice is not only important to protect our natural heritage, but is crucial in securing the sort of future we want for our children. That is why National founded the Bluegreens in the 1990s and it continues to grow in strength and numbers. It is one of the most active of National’s Policy Advisory Groups and now works closely with a strong Caucus group chaired by Scott Simpson MP.”
        
        Now if you look at that website photo – “National’s Bluegreen Executive is made up of members and MPs from around the country” – you can count 27 members of this Executive. Do you believe this is true? Are the leader & deputy truly members of this Bluegreen Executive?? Or is the caption a lie?
        
        solkta …
        
        28 January 2019 at 7:52 pm
        
        It’s an environmental party full of environmentalists mate.
        
        greywarshark …
        
        29 January 2019 at 10:13 am
        
        The first thing that National could do to show their shift to the green side, is to encourage buildings to be painted pale green, as a quiet and permanent reminder of their presence and direction. At present the choice of business and government tends to coffee-latte, or steel grey
        which is dull and depressing; beige almost everything. The pale green shift would herald the new political environment.
- Sacha 17.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 1:20 pm
  
  “I guess the nats would see it as a win if all the tava greens achieved was to take enough votes to bury the green party.”
  
  That is their aim, yes.
- Graeme 17.3
  
  28 January 2019 at 6:48 pm
  
  And that would kind of stuff it for National if both green flavours got seats, and both ended up supporting a Left leaning coalition. It would be smart politics to do whatever it took to get them both, and really, the blue / greens or whatever they call themselves would find life a hell of a lot easier being on the right side, but nowhere near the right edge, of a left wing government than on the left, and probably extreme left, of a National government.
  
  OK the party will appeal to the leafy suburbs, so that’s taking votes off National primarily, and maybe the odd one or two off the Green Party, but they’d mostly be National. And National are concerned about loosing those leafy suburbs to the left via a green party, hence the effort they put into attacking the Green Party in these areas.
  
  So I really doubt Labour would “rule out” working with them. Their strategists are probably welcoming the opportunity.
  
  More germane would be whether Tava would “rule out” working with Labour or the Green Party.
Jenny - How to get there? 18

28 January 2019 at 1:27 pm

AWOL

Simon Bridges has just come on the news saying the idea of a setting up a Blue/Green Party as an alternative partner to the Greens, “has some merit’.

How does this gell with the National Party’s so called “good faith” negotiations with James Shaw for a climate accord.

Not very well, I would have thought.

Saying that we are going to do our best to destroy you electorally, by supporting a patsy support partner, following behind a public attack piece penned by the National Climate Change Spokesperson in which he said the “Government is blinded by Green ideology”, pretty much torpedoes any good faith by-partisanship negotiations between the Climate Change Minister and National Party for a climate accord.

When will James Shaw enter the public debate to defend the government and his party from the Opposition’s attacks?

Politics is the battle for ideas, conducted in the public arena, a fact that the National Opposition understand very well.

When will James Shaw end his invisibility and give his rebuttal?

The future of his party as an electoral force may depend on it.
- Bearded Git 18.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 3:28 pm
  
  you used good faith and simon bridges in the same sentence there…unicorn thinking
- Dennis Frank 18.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 3:58 pm
  
  Seems to me you ought not to try diverting James from his consensus-building. His co-leader, otoh, has no similar demand on her time. Why not lobby her??
- Chris T 18.3
  
  28 January 2019 at 6:19 pm
  
  “When will James Shaw end his invisibility and give his rebuttal?”
  
  He won’t
  
  The Greens became gimps, the moment they said they would only go with Labour, which also ended any chances of getting major policy through.
  
  Apart from the cannabis referendum
  
  Way to show people your priorities as an environmental party
  
  This party if it happens will split the Green vote and they will drop below threshold and Winston is already out in the polls
  
  Too make it worse, I would think National will gift Tava a safe seat
  
  How the worm turns
  - Dennis Frank 18.3.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 7:59 pm
    
    Your confidence in your ability to predict the future may lapse. Jacinda’s x-factor is fading, so the Labour refugees she attracted back will probably return to the Greens by next election. They’d only be keepers for Labour if it achieved big political gains via performance. No sign of that.
    
    It hinges on whatever social policies any alternative Green option adopts. Insufficiently inspiring will only attract Green mainstreamers, who probably have long voted National due to the Bluegreens within. Hard to see a radical centrist option being provided, yet that is the only path to sustainability & survival downstream. Complacency still rules the thinking of mainstreamers.
- Sacha 18.4
  
  28 January 2019 at 8:21 pm
  
  “Simon Bridges has just come on the news saying the idea of a setting up a Blue/Green Party as an alternative partner to the Greens, “has some merit’. How does this gell with the National Party’s so called “good faith” negotiations with James Shaw for a climate accord.”
  
  A long-term climate accord has nothing to do with parties working together (or not) in other ways.
Andre 19

28 January 2019 at 1:41 pm

Just implement the recommendations of the MMP review and drop the threshold. Preferably lower than the recommendation, say 2.5% or 3% or so.

We’ll find out real quick if there actually is an unmet need for a CentristGreen or RightGreen party.
- Jenny - How to get there? 19.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 2:02 pm
  
  Indeed.
  
  At 2.5% or 3% the National Party’s need for a tactical vehicle to cannibalise the Green Party vote, to push them below 5% and keep them out of parliament, would be quashed.
  - Graeme 19.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 6:56 pm
    
    It’d also provide National with a plethora of single issue nut job parties to prop them up. Same could happen on the left, but history has them all in National’s patch. Can see that ending really well for all concerned….
    - Sacha 19.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 8:24 pm
      
      I’d love to watch the Nats negotiate a governing agreement with the Christian Soldiers, Rural Hunters and Truckies United parties.
greywarshark 20

28 January 2019 at 2:11 pm

Her historic benefit fraud? MT had an extra tenant to give her enough money so that she could finish her University degree, and not end up thrown on the scrapheap where so many NZ parents have been piled. She had guts of the type that NZ needs but you whingers just love the tall poppy cut. I don’t know if you fell trees, but you are very capable at the easy blow of cutting down people who try and break through the ties of hate that RW governments have wound round NZ young people limiting their lives and opportunities.
- Shadrach 20.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 7:32 pm
  
  Benefit fraud is a crime, is it not? Oh and having a tenant wasn’t the problem. The problem was not being honest about it.
  - greywarshark 20.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 8:46 pm
    
    Shadrach
    You belong to the great lynching mob that love to take down beneficiaries wherever some transgression can be found. And of course the more oppressing the legislation is, the harder to break out of the hated group of poverty-afflicted in society, the more chances that bennies will break some of gummints and agencies’ onerous regulations.
    - Shadrach 20.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 11:50 pm
      
      Most beneficiaries are cheats. Metiria was.
      
      Meanwhile you belong to the great crim hugging mob who condone fraud. Well done son.
    - Shadrach 20.1.1.2
      
      28 January 2019 at 11:50 pm
      
      Sorry meant to say most beneficiaries are NOT cheats. At least in my experience.
      - greywarshark 20.1.1.2.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 10:17 am
        
        Shadrach
        Frankly nothing you say seems to have any weight or thought so don’t bother
        to correct yourself you remain in the same place, just turned to a different point on the compass.
        
        shadrach 20.1.1.2.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 11:16 am
        
        That’s not a rational response. Metiria committed benefit fraud. In doing so she brings the welfare system into disrepute, and provides ammunition to those who oppose it. You are effectively condoning criminal behaviour that ultimately and unfairly reflects on other recipients of assistant.
        
        greywarshark …
        
        29 January 2019 at 11:29 am
        
        Shadrach you bring the benefit system into disrepute with your vituperations. The benefit system as I understood it was meant to help people as needed, and enable them to get on their feet and have the standing of a capable individual and respected citizen with a good lifestyle as part of an enterprising, working community.
        
        The fact that successive governments have acted to shut down the opportunity referred to above, deliberately, and then blast off at beneficiaries trying to achieve the outcome of being a capable individual etc. seems to appeal to you as an objective. You appear to dislike humanity, and don’t see other people’s intrinsic worth. Are you also a self-hater?
        
        Shadrach …
        
        29 January 2019 at 4:34 pm
        
        Your second sentence I can agree with. The problem with where you then proceed to is that you ignore the realty that the welfare system moved to be a dependency trap, rather than a liberation. Hence the need in recent times to wind it back. And I can easily demonstrate I’m correct by simply pointing to the fact that we now have an increasing number of people on benefits when unemployment is dropping, due significantly to the easing of sanctions. I support welfare for those genuinely in need.
        
        veutoviper …
        
        29 January 2019 at 12:05 pm
        
        shadrach, my advice (meant well) is to just leave it, ignore and move on.
        
        I see your replies as more to the point than the responses you have received and I hear what you are saying and agree for the most part. The latest replies indicate some very narrow/inaccurate views about our overall society and the purpose of our social contract safety net. They also contain personal attacks, addressing the messenger as opposed the message – probably in breach of the Rules for this website as set out in the Policy section. But you also did the same in one.
        
        It really is not worth bothering about. IMO you are not going to change this type of thinking. Kia kaha.
        
        Shadrach …
        
        29 January 2019 at 4:35 pm
        
        Thank you. I’ve had one more shot, in the assumption that Grwy is engaging in good faith.
        
        Bazza64 …
        
        29 January 2019 at 12:47 pm
        
        Shadrac, agree with you 100%. You aren’t a beneficiary hater, just want people to not break the law.
        
        Shadrach …
        
        29 January 2019 at 4:35 pm
        
        Indeed.
  - UncookedSelachimorpha 20.1.2
    
    29 January 2019 at 1:25 pm
    
    put this one up a few times now…
    
    “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.”
    
    ― Anatole France
    - Bazza64 20.1.2.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 2:27 pm
      
      An interesting quote re the law written a long time before there was any welfare state.
      - UncookedSelachimorpha 20.1.2.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 9:44 pm
        
        Little has changed, for many
Nic the NZer 21

28 January 2019 at 3:30 pm

“What can be the motiovation?”

I think Bridges is thinking about what to do once he is inevitably knifed in the back and tossed away by the National party.
- xanthe 21.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 4:07 pm
  
  heh heh, first two candidates , simon and jamie
ken 22

28 January 2019 at 4:55 pm

Blue Green and toxic like Blue-green Algae (Cyanobacteria).
Puckish Rogue 23

28 January 2019 at 6:56 pm

I’d strongly consider giving this my party vote
- Jenny - How to get there? 23.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 7:10 pm
  
  Great, one less vote for National.
  - Puckish Rogue 23.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 7:13 pm
    
    If the party does come to be created and National gifts them a seat then you might regret those words
    - You_Fool 23.1.1.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 12:31 pm
      
      Why? This new party can work for both sides right? Might ensure Labour head further left… win/win all around… or even better, Green/Lab/BG government, no need for winnie and we get a strong env/sustainability focus in government
- Cinny 23.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 7:38 pm
  
  Might want to wait until they have a party and some policy Pucky.
  
  Blue/greens sounds very nick smith styles…. think I’ll give it a miss.
  - Puckish Rogue 23.2.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 8:26 pm
    
    Oh for sure, it’ll have to be good policies for me to forsake Jude
    - Sacha 23.2.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 8:56 pm
      
      You’ll have her blessing to dally with the teal.
      - Puckish Rogue 23.2.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 9:57 pm
        
        But I want to leave the warm bosom of her inspiring leadership for an unknown quantity…decisions decisions
        
        veutoviper 23.2.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:13 pm
        
        Come on e hoa – after all you are now a card-carrying member of the Union!
        
        FYI, Swordfish the guru of election results has appeared at 29/30 below after I made a wish when reading your 17.1.1. etc re Green electorate results.
        
        As usual, some good statistics are down there at 30 that you may be interested in. I also asked Swordfish if he/she had anything to add to what Andre said in reply to you.
        
        veutoviper …
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:56 pm
        
        Also a good reply from Swordfish to me is now in the 29 thread (?) with analysis done at the time of the 2017 general election which is very interesting.
timeforacupoftea 24

28 January 2019 at 8:24 pm

Kennedy Graham will make a great leader for this new Green Party.

I can hear him sharpening his knives already.

Good Bye Green Party as we have known it.

Kennedy Gollan Montrose Graham(born 1946)
is a New Zealand politician and former Member of Parliament for the Green Party.

He has served in the New Zealand Foreign Service for sixteen years, and lectured at the University of Canterbury and Victoria University of Wellington.

He is the brother of Sir Douglas Graham, a former National Party MP (1984–1999) and cabinet minister (1991–1999). He is also a great-grandson of Robert Graham, an MP from 1855 to 1868.
- Psycho Milt 24.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 8:58 pm
  
  How much interest would he have in running a sock puppet on behalf of the National Party? That can hardly be an attractive gig for someone with any sense of integrity.
- greywarshark 24.2
  
  29 January 2019 at 10:23 am
  
  Is he the uncle of Carrick Graham? Having a long connection with politics, sounds similar to Roger Douglas once Labour, now left the planet for Mars with Elon ‘bite my dust’.
RRM 25

28 January 2019 at 8:28 pm

Whereas the ACTUAL GREEN GREENS have been SOOO STRONG on the environment since their election to government:

Kermadec Sanctuary – Winston says no

Cameras on fishing boats – Winston says no

Chlöë Swärbröök’s marijuana bill – Winston says no (and voted down FFS! Its government vs. government!)

Principled opposition to Waka Jumping Bill – Winston says no.

Another day, another shit sandwich for the greens. Eat up, James! Yum yum.
- Psycho Milt 25.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 9:04 pm
  
  Really? The wailing and gnashing of teeth over at Kiwiblog over the government nixing future oil and gas exploration has been a wonder to behold, and that’s even before the zero carbon bill hits their radar. Picture the exploding heads when that one turns up…
  
  If the Greens are having little effect, you wouldn’t know it from those comments threads. Even funnier – the wailing and gnashing of teeth was often accompanied by complaints that NZ First had allowed the Greens to walk all over them. You guys really don’t understand coalition government at all, do you?
Fireblade 26

28 January 2019 at 8:35 pm

You might think we look the same, but we’re not the same, we’re not the same at all. Cause I’m Green and I’m Blue…
Morrissey 27

28 January 2019 at 8:42 pm

What Green supporter could ever ally with a party that had THIS as a water policy?

https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/l/f/i/z/s/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240×700.1lfi0o.png/1504501119377.jpg
millsy 28

28 January 2019 at 8:50 pm

We already have a blue green party. It’s called TOP. If Tava wants to join, he only needs to pull their website up and punch in his credit card numbers.

TOP has the advantage of giving a shit about the environment.
- Psycho Milt 28.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 9:06 pm
  
  TOP has the advantage of giving a shit about the environment.
  
  Yep, but that’s exactly the reason National has to start its own “environmental” party -for TOP, there are no quotation marks around “environmental.”
- Morrissey 28.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 9:27 pm
  
  TOP has the advantage of giving a shit about the environment.
  
  So does the National Party, in a really disgusting, retrograde and polluting way…..
  
  https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/l/f/i/z/s/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1240×700.1lfi0o.png/1504501119377.jpg
Incognito 29

28 January 2019 at 9:02 pm

ANALYSIS: Data suggests the supposed “teal” section of National-leaning Green voters is tiny.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110207099/teal-vote-within-green-party-minuscule-data-suggests
- swordfish 29.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 9:12 pm
  
  Ha, you beat me to it !
  
  Started composing my comment before yours turned up.
  - veutoviper 29.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 9:44 pm
    
    Great to see you. While you are here …
    
    I was wishing you were here when I read the conversation some hours ago back up thread between Puckish Rogue and Andre starting at 17.1.1 about which electorates supply the most Green party votes.
    
    Andre is of the view that the green vote is fairly high in places like Epsom, Auckland Central, Wellington Central, and pretty low in places like Mangere, Manurewa, Dunedin South from the 2017 election results, which seems right to me.
    
    IIRC you have done work on this and I wondered whether you – and/or Matthew Whitehead – could add anything more to that conversation and here you are.
    
    Any comments on this aspect?
    
    PS – pleased to see you have regard for young Mr Henry Cooke. I have been impressed with him since he started life as a journalist, and have not been disappointed.
    - swordfish 29.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 10:25 pm
      
      My comments from 2017, Vv (with links to even earlier debates):
      
      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25082017/#comment-1373292
      
      https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-25082017/#comment-1373773
      .
      - swordfish 29.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:38 pm
        
        (In the above comment … I linked to my actual (25 Aug 2017) comments 6:16am (top of post) & my reply to Ad at 10:34am … but all this new-fangled technology appears to have simply restricted you to a link to the overall 25/08/2017 Open Mike post as a whole … Dang !)
        
        So here are my two 2017 comments:
        
        First: 6.16am
        swordfish
        25 August 2017 at 6:16 am
        
        Latest analysis from the New Zealand Election Study’s Jack Vowles (hot off the Press and just launched by Helen Clark at Victoria University) raises a series of interesting points about Green support:
        
        (1) It appears to confirm what I’ve been arguing for quite some time (eg here … https://thestandard.org.nz/breaking-news-russell-norman-resigning-from-parliament/#comment-1069442 and here … https://thestandard.org.nz/the-political-machinations-of-the-flag-debate/#comment-1074477) … namely: that – far from being a Party supported solely (or even largely) by the affluent urban upper-middle classes – the Green support-base is, in fact, quite diverse: the party draws fairly similar levels of support from the various socio-economic strata. Indeed, if anything, the 2014 NZES suggests the Greens drew slightly greater support from people on lower incomes with few if any assets than from those on high incomes.
        
        Which isn’t to say the Green Constituency sees itself as subjectively “working class” exactly … their voters tend to eschew any class identity. They’re also more likely than average to be university educated.
        
        (2) The Greens’ dependable core-vote is probably smaller than most pundits assume.
        
        The NZES flow-of-the-Vote data suggests less than half of 2011 Green voters remained loyal at the 2014 General Election. About a quarter of 2011 Greens swung to Labour, with a little less than one fifth going to the Nats and NZF (each).
        
        However, there were significant reciprocal swings. The Greens lost more to Labour than they gained from the Larger Centre-Left Party, but most of the vote inflow that the Green’s did receive in 2014 came from former Labour supporters as well as from previous Non-voters – thus largely (but not entirely) compensating for their lost 2011 votes.
        
        As Vowles argues: ” … the apparent stability of Green voting support is something of an illusion”
        
        In other words … not the same 11% voting Green in 2011 and 2014. Around 5% of all voters (just under half of 2011 Greens) voted Green in both Elections, the rest were new.
        
        And this isn’t actually anything new – go back to earlier NZES polling (late 90s / early zeros Elections) and you’ll see the same inherent volatility in the Green vote.
        
        Clearly, at the very least a large minority (and quite possibly a majority) of Green voters in both 2011 and 2014 had been Labour supporters at some time in the recent past. A lot of movement back and forth between the two parties over consecutive Elections.
        
        So, I’d argue the Greens’ base vote is more like 5%.
        
        Jacindamania + the Greens turmoil in this campaign will probably mean the Party won’t receive its usual amount of (significant and vital) Labour-supporter froth on top of that core vote. Probably just enough to raise it to 6-8%.
        
        NOTE: If the Greens are averaging anything less than about 6.5% in the final round of pre-Election Polls then I myself am going to be forced to switch my Party Vote from Labour to the Vegetable Rights and Peace Party, just to ensure they return.
        
        (3) The NZES confirms once again (as in previous NZES studies) that Green voters view themselves – and are viewed by others – as ideologically to the Left of Labour. The Greens constituency is essentially Left-libertarian (there are relatively few Blue-Greens among the Party’s support-base), with a particularly marked emphasis not on the liberal attitudes that most pundits might assume but rather on the economic Left dimension. While Social libertarians are certainly much more likely to vote Green than Social authoritarians … holding Left-wing economic views is still around 3 times more important in predicting Green electoral support than moral liberalism.
        
        So the idea popular among pundits that there exists some kind of mis-match between the Greens’ left-wing social justice policies and their supposedly affluent, centrist, morally-liberal but purely environmentalist urban support-base really holds no water.
        
        veutoviper 29.1.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:52 pm
        
        Thanks so much, Swordfish.
        
        I thought you had done some indepth analysis about that time. Sorry, too tired tonight to relook at in depth as have been awake since 4am and time for bed.
        
        Our wonderful lprent is doing a lot of work on the site at present etc and currently it doesn’t seem to be possible to link to actual comments – only the post. Or, he has done that deliberately to stop people like me doing it too often! LOL.
        
        swordfish 29.1.1.1.1.2
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:52 pm
        
        Second 10:34am
        
        swordfish
        26 August 2017 at 10:34 am
        
        Ad:
        
        Which electorates are they strongest in?
        
        The New Zealand Election Study’s Jack Vowles
        
        Some journalists have also suggested that the Greens’ failure to attract voters on the right was less about the ability to demonstrate a capacity for economic management and environmental pragmatism, and more about how their position on issues of social justice connected or did not connect with their electoral support. For example, political commentator Duncan Garner (2014) argued that ‘the Greens talk poverty and social justice, but the poor aren’t listening—and they’re certainly not voting for them’. He identified ‘telling statistics’ from party vote data across electorates: the Green Party polled much better in upper-income electorates than in those with high proportions of people on lower incomes. But Garner’s observation is based on what is known as the ecological fallacy: it is dangerous to infer individual behaviour from differences between large groups of people such as those contained in electorates. At the individual level, as Chapter 4 has shown, the Greens were slightly more likely to gain votes from people on lower incomes than those on upper incomes.
        
        Contrary to Garner’s claims, lower incomes and fewer assets are associated with Green voting. However, as Figure 7.2 shows, Green voters are not working class and do not see themselves as such. They also do not identify as middle class, given the width of the confidence intervals, mainly identifying with no class at all.
        
        I made essentially the same point as Vowles back in the 2015 thread I Iinked to https://thestandard.org.nz/the-political-machinations-of-the-flag-debate/#comment-1074477
        
        Duncan Garner certainly wasn’t the only journo to rely on seat-by-seat data
        
        In his 2012 Listener Interview with Russel Norman – Guyon Espiner suggested
        .
        
        If you doubt the rich bias among Green voters, consider this: in the country’s wealthiest electorate of Epsom, 4424 people gave their party vote to the Greens. That is more than the combined total of Green voters in the poor Auckland electorates of Mangere (962), Manurewa (995) and Manukau East (913)..
        
        Apart from falling for the ecological fallacy – what Guyon also conspicuously failed to notice was the marked discrepancy between similarly affluent seats like Epsom (Green 4424 in 2011) & Wellington Central (10903)
        or
        very Low Income Dunedin North (Green 7010 in 2011) & either the 3 poorer South Auckland electorates or indeed affluent Epsom.
        
        _____________________________________________________________________
        
        Right … so all above this = my 2017 10:34am reply to Ad
        
        My 2019 self will just add here (no cheap pun intended) … that (historically) decidely weak Pasifika support for the Greens goes some way to explaining the Party’s weakness in the big Labour strongholds of South Auckland. (If I remember rightly … I made this point in one of those earlier debates on TS from 2015 or there abouts)
- Dennis Frank 29.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 9:36 pm
  
  That’s reassuring. It disposes of the scaremongering. I suspect voters returning due to the fading of the Jacinda effect will outnumber those pulled by Vernon.
  
  I doubt he’s silly enough to plan on pulling voters from the Greens anyway. The number of mainstreamers who have environmentalist concerns is vastly greater – over 80% of the electorate according to a recent poll. So he’s thinking of fishing in that pool.
swordfish 30

28 January 2019 at 9:10 pm

Micky

I suspect that driving the Greens to under 5% is a big part of National’s thinking.

Absolutely. In fact, the entirety of their strategy, I’d say. They know full well a Blue-Green vehicle won’t even remotely approach the 5% hurdle.

Trouble (for the Nats) is … the Turquoise constituency within the Green’s voting base is vanishingly small.

The 2008-2014 New Zealand Election Study found that Green voters were not only overwhelmingly liberal on the Moral Liberal vs Conservative spectrum but also heavily Left on the core Economic Left vs Right spectrum. And overwhelmingly preferred a Labour rather than Tory givernment.

And now … one of the best of the younger journos (Henry Cooke) has just updated with the 2017 NZES stats … confirming the same essential ideological proclivities of the Green voting base. (this, incidentally, is the first time I’ve seen any stats from the 2017 iteration of the Study).

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/110207099/teal-vote-within-green-party-minuscule-data-suggests
- Sacha 30.1
  
  28 January 2019 at 9:34 pm
  
  Let’s see if Henry’s tweets with graphs embed OK:
  
  https://twitter.com/henrycooke/status/1089668192593600512
  - swordfish 30.1.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 9:44 pm
    
    Brilliant !
    
    And, as I say, it’s been the case for quite some time.
    
    A chunk of Left-Labour & former Alliance / New Labour* voters headed in that direction (especially at the 2011 General Election … when a somewhat moribund Goff leadership saw a swathe of Labour’s moral liberal supporters swinging to the Greens / and a section of its moral conservatives moving to NZF).
    
    * it’s interesting that while many Alliance activists entered the Green Party immediately after 2002 … the NZES of the time suggested a large majority of former Alliance voters swung to Labour rather than the Greens. Almost a decade later … they join younger Lefties in finally following their former activists.
    - Sacha 30.1.1.1
      
      28 January 2019 at 9:47 pm
      
      Indeed. Sure did not take long for Hooton to diss the notion either: https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/status/1089209227695063040
      - Sacha 30.1.1.1.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:06 pm
        
        I have no idea what makes one tweet show up here and another not.
      - Dennis Frank 30.1.1.1.2
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:10 pm
        
        So he thinks it’s just a Nat-split thing. I mostly agree, but reckon it would pull some Labour voters who don’t like National but would go for a centrist Green option. Say 2.5% of the electorate. Combine that with reluctant Nat voters who want a progressive Green option, say 3%, and you have a goer…
        
        This commenter amused me: “My thinking is a party like this is after my vote and people like me. We’re swing voters, sit in the middle and would vote Green if they’d not be a bunch a former commies. I’ll never vote Labour or Nats and Winston is out. What’s left? My segment easily makes 5% I reckon.” 🤣
        
        veutoviper 30.1.1.1.2.1
        
        28 January 2019 at 10:19 pm
        
        Am I right or wrong in thinking that comment is a wonderful example of an oxymoron? LOL
        
        Dennis Frank …
        
        29 January 2019 at 6:01 am
        
        I had to consult the bible: “An oxymoron is a rhetorical device that uses an ostensible self-contradiction to illustrate a rhetorical point or to reveal a paradox. A more general meaning of “contradiction in terms” is recorded by the OED for 1902.” [Wikipedia]
        
        I think you’re right: it’s the original meaning that seems to apply to him rather than the later, general meaning. The commie reference means his political consciousness was formed no later than the seventies, but his photo showed a man who seemed younger than me, so probably born mid-late fifties.
        
        The interesting bit is why someone so averse to marxists also never votes National. It does make him genuinely centrist. Yet seeing the GP as too leftist makes him non-progressive, so genuinely conservative. Yet he doesn’t rate Winston an option, nor does he cite the New Conservatives! If he’s being honest, we may have found a unicorn in the political forest. And when you find one example of a species in an ecosystem, you know there’s more…
        
        veutoviper …
        
        29 January 2019 at 1:41 pm
        
        It really is a wonderful comment! I am still laughing and have bookmarked it in My Laughs folder. Thanks again.
- Dennis Frank 30.2
  
  28 January 2019 at 9:45 pm
  
  Yes, once they get their heads around this data their enthusiasm will cool. However the recent poll suggests the numbers available to be pulled via suitable niche-marketing are huge, so they won’t discount the option much.
  
  From a marketing perspective, giving voters a choice is a smart move. National, for reasons that are obscure to me, is diffident about marketing its in-house bluegreen brand. The Tava option presents them with a way to test the market. All they need do is signal a partnership to the electorate. Swing voters usually determine our election result, and often only 3% of the electorate suffice to do so, right?
  - Sacha 30.2.1
    
    28 January 2019 at 9:49 pm
    
    Maybe it will encourage the potential christian or hunting parties to make a play.
Dennis Frank 31

28 January 2019 at 10:00 pm

“A big part of our problem in New Zealand is actually not the rules themselves, it’s the lack of enforcement.” You betcha! Labour & Nat govts both guilty in the past.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/01/waterways-might-not-need-tougher-pollution-rules-potential-blue-green-party-leader-vernon-tava.html

“There are a lot of people… who are to the right of centre, or are very much centrist – maybe swing voters, but not people who are to the left of Labour – who would give a party vote to an environmental party. I’ve lost count of the number of conversations I’ve had with people who’ve said they’d vote for that kind of party. Of course that’s anecdata”. Not market research

If the Nats have done it, looks like they haven’t given it to their members. But I posted evidence that their leadership group doesn’t even share polling data with caucus the other day, so no surprise! Such distrust and lack of team-spirit!

Bridges predicts “you will organically see parties coming up to fill I suppose what is a void in the centre.” He “denied being involved in setting up the new party”.
Dennis Frank 32

29 January 2019 at 6:32 am

Stuff editorialises on the potential: https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/110205536/is-a-bluegreen-party-a-real-possibility

“A blue-green party that is sensible and strategic, without TOP’s communication issues, could promote itself as an environmental handbrake on a centre-Right Government. With the Green Party consistently ruling itself out of a coalition with National, there may finally be a place in New Zealand politics for a party that can figure out how to combine pragmatism and principle.”

Analogous to the handbrake NZF applies to Labour & Greens aspirations in the coalition. Vernon has the clarity of vision and managerial competence to do that.
- WeTheBleeple 32.1
  
  29 January 2019 at 9:03 am
  
  Vernon is a spotlight hungry egomaniac with no loyalty. Just watch him in public being handsy with women. I don’t mind touchy people, sexually selective touchy = creep.
  
  You say “clarity of vision and managerial competence”, I say opportunist.
That_guy 33

29 January 2019 at 10:29 am

I’d like to propose a name for this new party that evokes images of greenness, flowing rivers, nature, that kind of thing. How about “Greenwash”?
That_guy 34

29 January 2019 at 12:18 pm

On reflection this could actually work.

The entire thing seems to be predicated on two delusions: one, that the “environment” is something that you visit on the weekends and is an optional extra that you throw some attention at after the “core” issues of the Very Serious People are addressed, and two, that it’s possible to do this without spending any money or making any sacrifices.

But, a LOT of people have these delusions. So it could work if the party grabs 1% off the greens and 4% off the Nats, NZF, Labour and ex-TOP.

It’s the kind of thing my mum would vote for so that she can imagine that she’s ticked the “Green” box.
- UncookedSelachimorpha 34.1
  
  29 January 2019 at 1:36 pm
  
  “one, that the “environment” is something that you visit on the weekends”
  
  Yeah, but you can just tow it “beyond the environment”…a fantastic old skit from John Clarke:
  - That_guy 34.1.1
    
    29 January 2019 at 2:21 pm
    
    Comedy gold thx
DJ Ward 35

29 January 2019 at 2:22 pm

As a person who fits into this voter demographic I have had no voting options, forever.

Greens have just been captured by the hate men feminists. Shown by there political motivation in getting the Ministry of Women portfolio. Playing into the steriotype that the greens are not a Green Party. Just a social justice party, and one that rejects a significant minority of voters, men. Many like me that would vote for the party, but due to flying a false flag are happy to see any attempt resulting in the present parties demise.

Recently I read the Conservatives platform. Amazingly in the Family’s area they propose equality at separation. Sadly the rest is fruitcake religous stuff. Amazing that the Conservative party is more Feminist than the people who cliam to be feminists.
- McFlock 35.1
  
  29 January 2019 at 2:31 pm
  
  Well, have fun with the others in your demographic voting for the new party, then.
- That_guy 35.2
  
  29 January 2019 at 2:32 pm
  
  I don’t understand why you think the Greens hate men. Genuinely interested in why you think this.. are there specific incidents or policies you can refer to?
  
  I’m a straight white guy and I never got this vibe from them.. been in the party, attended conferences, talked to the candidates personally.
  
  Genuine question.
  - DJ Ward 35.2.1
    
    29 January 2019 at 2:48 pm
    
    Can you link to a pro men’s issues statement from them. Don’t bother with the pro women ones as that’s virtually all of them. Try JAG and Jan Logie, as I’m sure they are demanding change in the endless list of bad stats for men and boys.
    
    Hmm no! More bigoted women’s services funding, more persecution of males, more turning a blind eye to women’s offending, more removal of males from parenting roles.
    
    Did anybody ask. “What is your men’s policy?, who has the men’s portfolio?” It’s called Gynocentrism, fronted by misandrists.
    - That_guy 35.2.1.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 3:00 pm
      
      Well, Chloe Swarbrick is on the mental health portfolio and is always talking about the high suicide rate, which is biased towards men. So there’s that.
      I guess I was hoping for something a bit more specific than “they fund things for women therefore they hate men”. I don’t agree that a lack of statements about men’s issues equates to hatred, but perhaps we can agree that a few statements recognizing the problem of young men’s suicide rates (and including the word “men”) wouldn’t go amiss. It’s just… hate? It’s a bit strong. The worst you could really accuse them of is inattention.
  - Dennis Frank 35.2.2
    
    29 January 2019 at 2:52 pm
    
    Yeah, likewise. But I get why he feels that way. The Greens are so staunch about equality of gender & minority representation that it has produced discrimination to some extent – although that is probably debatable. Anyone interested in the reality of that should check the list & do the stats. It’s definitely true that Greens political marketing has a black hole where white males ought to be, and voters stay away as a result. Not easy for the leftist decision-makers to grasp this fact…
    - That_guy 35.2.2.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 3:04 pm
      
      Maybe it wouldn’t be a bad idea for the Greens to put out some comms about our high male suicide rate and how they often occur in the wake of a relationship breakup, and how it might be a good idea for everyone to end relationships in a way that’s a bit nicer, and not at all relate this in any way to anything that’s currently in the media about certain Nats.
    - McFlock 35.2.2.2
      
      29 January 2019 at 3:15 pm
      
      Fortunately, there is literally every other political party on hand to rectify that fact (only being a little bit facetious).
      
      I was surprised that the Green caucus has so many women in it compared to men, but then remembered they had to replace three senior mps just before the election.
      - DJ Ward 35.2.2.2.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 4:01 pm
        
        Because they didn’t support the position of condoning female offending, in regard to benifit fraud.
        It wasn’t a dispute on Green policy.
        
        McFlock 35.2.2.2.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 4:43 pm
        
        It had nothing to do with “female” offending.
        
        It had everything to do with the forced criminalisation of the needy, where the system intentionally gives beneficiaries insufficient funds to sustain life and then pillories people for committing fraud.
        
        and it had everything to do with Green party policy. If benefit levels aren’t currently providing a “basic, liveable income”, then everyone on a benefit is either slowly dying or committing some manner of fraud to live.
Dennis Frank 36

29 January 2019 at 3:08 pm

“Environmentalism and sustainability need not fall on the political left or right, and there’s space for a more centrist party, former Green MP Kennedy Graham says.” https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/381175/former-green-mp-kennedy-graham-backs-new-centrist-party

“Dr Graham says he’s not part of any discussions to form a new party but he does think there is room for one that is not wedded to the political left.” “He rejected the suggestion the new party would be ‘blue-green’. “It’s neither red green nor blue green but … would work with the left or right, it would be a quintessentially centrist party.””

Remarkably perceptive for such an establishment gent, eh? He continues “you have government and you have opposition and if a political party says it’s only going to work with one side of that house, then you’re not going to get a long-term binding genuine consensus. That is required in any country – including New Zealand – for effective long-term or even medium term sustainability: you need environmental philosophy to be placed in the centre and to be working with both left and right.”

Just as true as it ever was. Failure to adopt the correct praxis continues to afflict the GP. However the argument that National have made collaboration impossible also has considerable merit!

“He also rejected joining such a party, should it come to pass. “I’ve met on a couple of occasions with Vernon, he remains a friend and a colleague but … I haven’t discussed it with him. “For that matter I meet with James Shaw from time to time too. My active political career is over, I’m just interested in the theory and philosophy of sustainability.””
- That_guy 36.1
  
  29 January 2019 at 3:23 pm
  
  I think the Green’s position is that you can’t have infinite growth in a finite system, and that 26 people owning more than half the planet is not a good political outcome. The first is just physics. The second is arguably left-wing I guess. But a more nuanced viewpoint is that, after a certain point, inequality actually leads to more inefficiencies in the economy, and that we’re well past that point. So for me it’s just a matter of basic physics and economics.
  
  I prefer to think in terms of “correct vs incorrect” rather than “left vs right”. It’s not my problem if the right wing parties are subscribing to economic and physical theories that aren’t accurate.
  - Pat 36.1.1
    
    29 January 2019 at 3:31 pm
    
    hear hear….and if a Blue/Green start up is full of contradictions hopefully their target market will be unimpressed…although theres no guarantee
    - That_guy 36.1.1.1
      
      29 January 2019 at 3:42 pm
      
      The National party is totally based on an economic theory that isn’t correct and they got 40%. Like I said above, I think a blue-green party could work because it’ll be based on delusions that people want to believe.
      
      I don’t think they’ll get many votes from the Green voters. Just as likely they’ll siphon off 4.9% of National’s vote, which would be hilarious.
      - Pat 36.1.1.1.1
        
        29 January 2019 at 3:59 pm
        
        as you say it may work (that is reach threshold) but if they do its far more likely at the expense of existing Nat vote rather than from the current GP support
Brutus Iscariot 37

29 January 2019 at 3:20 pm

I’d be wary of using income data to work out the Green’s voter demographic. A good portion of their base are middle class white students and the like, not much nominal income but often very affluent and inclined to a protest vote against National-voting Mummy & Daddy. Or consider the marketing executives etc from Ponsonby who make plenty of money but feel guilty about it every day.

As noted above, the proof is in the electorates their success is concentrated in. But whether these voters are “teal” is another question altogether…i suspect not in most cases.

I love the concept of a pragmatic environmentally aware centrist party, but as said above, it already exists in the form of TOP, which was built as a movement based on genuine conviction. Tava’s concept is just a shill party that makes a mockery of voter’s intelligence.
- Dennis Frank 37.1
  
  29 January 2019 at 4:01 pm
  
  Well, let’s put your cynicism in a suitable context! Here’s his leadership rationale from May 2015:
  
  “I have asked a question that is a perennial one for the Green Party. Are we a left wing party that includes the environment as part of its policy mix? Eco-socialists? Red Greens? Or are we a true party of sustainability – environmental, social, cultural and economic – willing and able to be an independent entity with a decisive influence on government policy? Whichever parties may comprise the government. The left-right spectrum is only one aspect of political action and if we limit ourselves to only being able to deal with one end of that spectrum we are far less able to move the focus of politics to genuine sustainability.”
  
  “The urgency of interconnected local and global crises – climate change, biodiversity loss, mass extinctions, inequality – all demand that we work across political lines. It is easy to glibly dismiss such a question as mere philosophical speculation, or ‘just about political positioning’. But it is far more fundamental than that.”
  
  “My vision for the Greens is that we be the sustainable axis around which governments turn. I am not advocating that we become a Blue-Green Party. It is a real failure of imagination to think that this is the only alternative to a Red-Green political project and it fails to appreciate that the old, stale politics of the left-right axis are of limited use when facing the unprecedented challenges of the 21st century.”
  
  https://vernontava.com/2015/05/30/final-speech-to-the-green-party-agm-for-the-male-co-leader-contest/
Chris 38

29 January 2019 at 9:03 pm

“But unlike National, I think environmentally-minded voters are smart enough not to fall for it.”

Sure, but there are also a lot of either uninformed or very stupid NZers who’re capable of falling for anything. It’s a big problem.
Muttonbird 39

29 January 2019 at 10:28 pm

Two massive cock-ups in this piece by National Party public relations manager, Brigitte Morten. She claims:

However, the Greens have not maintained a steady vote since formation.

I’d say the Green vote at +5% over the last 20 years has been remarkably steady in comparison to other minor parties. Perhaps by steady she means the sub-1% performances by ACT.

And she laments that single issue parties struggle for mandate and broad policy:

Like any party that campaigns on a single issue, how do they vote in parliament on issues they didn’t get a mandate for?

while criticising the Greens for having exactly that.

They may be able to pick up some swing voters who care about environmental issues but are put off by the Greens’ wider policy platform

No wonder the Nats are in opposition with such muddled MMP thinking.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/381235/new-green-party-viable-option-or-wishful-thinking

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Prime Minister Christopher Luxon last Friday appeared to be starting to moderate his pivot to the United States under the foreign policy reset. Back in August he had told Australia’s Lowy Institute last August that New Zealand’s independent foreign policy was a “nonsense”. But in his latest foreign policy speech, ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

16 hours ago
2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #47

A listing of 25 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, November 17, 2024 thru Sat, November 23, 2024. Story of the week This week, we again asked Gemini to create a topical summary of the articles we shared during ...

Skeptical Science

22 hours ago
End Game

Related articles belowIntroductionRecently, I’ve been having some delays in putting pen to paper.It’s not because I’m short on words -Verbosity seems to be one of the banes of my life. And it’s not because there isn’t enough content: I just whipped up a long list from the past few days.So, ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 day ago
Rowdy scrappers, beautiful birds

Who doesn't love to watch Tūī? Who doesn't love those colours, almost too good to be true - the deepest, glossiest, most lustrous of deep blue, the iridescent turquoise, the crisp-as-a-vicar's-collar white tuft?Who doesn't love the way they move, swooping as swift as a jet or occasionally bashing the hell ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

2 days ago
Fact brief – Has human-caused climate change increased extreme weather?

Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park from the Gigafact team in collaboration with members from our team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Has human-caused climate ...

Skeptical Science

2 days ago
What’s Been Happening? Political Roundup

For paid subscribersI’m currently writing an article in response to a promise to Bill about where everything is heading - and I included a ‘quick’ snapshot of political updates.However, as that list of updates got longer, I thought it made sense to send out as a separate article.So here it ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

2 days ago
Bitch

I'm a bitch, I'm a loverI'm a child, I'm a motherI'm a sinner, I'm a saintI do not feel ashamedI'm your Hell, I'm your dreamI'm nothing in betweenYou know you wouldn't want it any other wayWriters: Shelly Peiken, Meredith BrooksGood morning, all you lovely people. 🙂 A newsletter this morning ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

3 days ago
Property Rights and the Treaty Principles Bill

Property rights – which enable decisions over tangible and intangible assets – are critical to an economy as Why Nations Fail pointed out. Not just private property rights for, as we shall see, they are more complicated than that. Neoliberals argue that private property rights lead to the maximum economic ...

PunditBy Brian Easton

3 days ago
The Hoon around the week to November 22

The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with: on the US Presidential elections, Israel vs Gaza/Iran/Lebanon, Ukraine/Nato vs Russia/North Korea and whether NZ now joins AUKUS;Special guest Helen Clark on the issues above, ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

3 days ago
Justice in Brazil

Following the 2022 Brazilian general election, election loser Jair Bolsonaro tried to do a Trump, attempting a coup to overturn the election. It failed. But unlike his American friend, he hasn't been allowed to get away with it: The former Brazilian president Jair Bolsonaro and some of his closest ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

3 days ago
Treasury warns deeper recession worsening Budget deficit

The gift that keeps giving: David Seymour has now opened a split in the coalition over the future of National’s promise to build a new medical school. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / TheKakaKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

4 days ago
Weekly Roundup 22-November-2024

It’s another Friday and we’re inching closer to the end of the year. Here’s some of the stories that have caught our attention this week. This post, like all our work, is brought to you by a largely volunteer crew and made possible by generous donations from our readers and ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

4 days ago
Beyond Question?

Record Numbers: The Hīkoi mō te Tiriti, which began at the tip of the North, and the tail of the South, on 11 November, culminated outside Parliament on Tuesday, 19 November 2024, in one of the largest demonstrations in New Zealand’s political history.ACCORDING TO TE ARA, the Ministry of Culture ...

Bowalley Road

4 days ago
The Rush To Blame “The Activists”

Activists are such easy scapegoats. The right and center have been conditioned for decades to roll their eyes at all protests. The left are easily aggravated over students leading movements they see as belonging to grownups, who have more important concerns like the economy and whether the trains come on ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

4 days ago
Cutting Through An Inundation of Dipshit Racists

Hi,Watching New Zealand from afar offers a strange perspective. It can be a good thing — distance from Aotearoa helped keep me sane while I reported on abuse at New Zealand’s biggest megachurch over the course of a year. It helps fuel my silly podcast. But it can also be ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

4 days ago
This is bad news

The speech yesterday by Treasury’s Chief Economic Advisor warning that the books are in worse shape than forecasted looks like it’s part of a softening-up process for either more cuts or a longer wait to get back into surplus. The speech was a highly unusual public preview of Treasury’s Half-Yearly ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

4 days ago
Skeptical Science New Research for Week #47 2024

Open access notables Projected increase in the frequency of extremely active Atlantic hurricane seasons, Lopez et al., Science Advances: Future changes to the year-to-year swings between active and inactive North Atlantic tropical cyclone (TC) seasons have received little attention, yet may have great societal implications in areas prone to hurricane ...

Skeptical Science

4 days ago
Chicken Kiev

Chatting in the supermarket this morning, I found I needed to lunge for the chicken drumsticks.Coping mechanisms: who hasn’t felt a greater need for them lately?When it all gets too much, I turn to demonstrating handy butchery hacks.It wasn’t that she’d said anything wrong, our friend, not at all. We ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

4 days ago
The year is 2024 and it’s 1984

This is written in response to the highly significant open letter from a group of economists that was today addressed to Christopher Luxon. The year is 2024, and it’s 1984. The country is reeling from a record Olympic medal gold haul, while the globe grapples with the choice of the ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

4 days ago
The IPCA has failed

Back in 2022, RNZ took an in-depth look at the "Independent" Police Conduct Authority and its handling of killings by police. These are the most serious test of oversight, and you would expect the police's use of lethal force to receive the most severe scrutiny. But despite the police regularly ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

4 days ago
Thursday 21 November 2024

The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti arrived at Parliament on Tuesday – the size is being debated but estimates range from 42,000 to 100,000. The Prime Minister is defending not attending due to some of the organisers being affiliated with Te Pāti Māori. The national gang patch ban came into force ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

4 days ago
‘These budget cuts are counter-productive and make no sense’

I spoke to former Productivity Chair Nana this morning about the letter he and a group of other economists sent to PM Christopher Luxon to urge the Government to urgently suspend cuts to spending and investment for the sake of the economy, struggling businesses and the wellbeing of vulnerable ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

4 days ago
ACT’s Astroturfing & A Co-ordinated Attack on Te Pati Māori

Unity on the Streets / Unity at the TableAfter the Hīkoi, all three right wing Coalition leaders came together to push the idea that the 42,000 - 50,000 + strong Hikoi was somehow less potent and brave, and more illegitimate than the energy and crowd displayed.Prime Minister Christopher Luxon 20-November: ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

4 days ago
Durability of carbon dioxide removal is critical for stabilizing temperatures

This is a re-post from the Climate Brink The world is emitting over 40 gigatons of CO2 per year, contributing to an accelerating warming of the planet. The world needs to cut emissions rapidly to be remotely on track to meet our Paris Agreement goals of limiting warming to well-below 2C, and we ...

Skeptical Science

5 days ago
I Love My Leather Jacket

I wear my leather jacket like a great big hugRadiating charm - a living cloak of luckIt's the only concrete link with an absent friendIt's a symbol I can wear 'till we meet againOr it's a weight around my neck while the owner's freeBoth protector and reminder of mortalityIt's a ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

5 days ago
Throwback Thursday: Will “Auckland Transport” Survive?

With Auckland Transport’s future up in the air under Mayor Wayne Brown’s proposed CCO reform, we’ve dug way back into the archives, to unearth this post originally published in March 2010. As you’ll see, many of the debates that were being had when AT was first proposed continue to ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

5 days ago
Economists call on PM to suspend budget cuts for the sake of the economy

Nicola Willis’ budget cuts are under fire from economists for having no clear rationale and worsening the recession. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Thursday, November 21: The news at ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

5 days ago
The end of policing by consent

National has appointed a new police commissioner. And he explicitly rejects policing by consent: Asked if he subscribed to policing by consent, he said he did not. “I don’t talk about policing by consent. I talk about trust and confidence, and it is fundamentally important that the police have ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

5 days ago
The Treaty Principles Bill: A Who’s Who

David Horatio Waterbed SeymourFringe politician and dweeb transformed successfully by ThinkTank money into a well-oiled soundbite robot.Currently programmed to say: Equal rights for all New Zealanders Equal rights for all New Zealanders Equal rights for all New Zealanders Was previously programmed to say:I am a proud libertarian andI am a ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

5 days ago
Kinleith mill closure shows need for industrial strategy

NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff is calling on the Government to deliver an economic and industrial strategy for regional manufacturing, rather than just expressing sympathy for job losses, following the announced closure of Kinleith mill in Tokoroa. “The closure Kinleith mill in Tokoroa is not just devastating for ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

5 days ago
27% of kids going hungry, up from 21% in a year

One in four Kiwi children live in households where food runs out often or sometimes. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Wednesday, November 20: The lead: The official annual Health Survey found sharp ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

6 days ago
Transport modelling is an illusion

This guest post by Tim Adriaansen, an advocate for accessibility and sustainable transport, originally published on LinkedIn and cross posted here with permission. People prefer cars, right? Probably not. Here’s why. Granted, most people in English-speaking countries use a car to get around. This simple reality underpins our transport ...

Greater AucklandBy Guest Post

6 days ago
Young Maori take over

Neither Wellington nor Parliament has ever seen anything like it before. The Police said there were more than 40,000 but however many there were, yesterday’s Hikoi to Parliament was a monumental event. It was almost three times the Foreshore and Seabed martch of 2004 and many,many times bigger than ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

6 days ago
Gordon Campbell On The Hikoi Aftermath

The euphoria from yesterday’s hikoi may be transitory, but is no less valuable for that. It is pretty rare for the left to feel itself to be in the overwhelming majority, and speaking as the voice of the people. Lest that momentum be lost, the organisers will no doubt be ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

6 days ago
Sabin 33 #3 – Solar panels generate too much waste and will overwhelm landfills

On November 1, 2024 we announced the publication of 33 rebuttals based on the report "Rebutting 33 False Claims About Solar, Wind, and Electric Vehicles" written by Matthew Eisenson, Jacob Elkin, Andy Fitch, Matthew Ard, Kaya Sittinger & Samuel Lavine and published by the Sabin Center for Climate Change Law at Columbia ...

Skeptical Science

6 days ago
What’s the time Mr Seymour?

Mr David Seymour crawling up to the ceilingThe sun don't shine the sun don't shine the sun don't shine at allMamma Pappa say you should go to school, I don't know what forNow that I've grown up and seen the world and all its liesSong: Southside of Bombay"Ake, ake, ake" ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

6 days ago
Submit to defend te Tiriti!

The Justice Committee has called for submissions on National's racist and constitutionally radical Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi Bill. Submissions can be made at the link above or by post, and are due by Tuesday, 7 January 2025. But I'd get in quick, in case National grows a spine ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

6 days ago
We need to talk about Kevin

All happy families are alike; each unhappy family has a Drunk Uncle Kevin in there somewhere. If your Kevin is anything like the ones I know, he was getting along happily enough without having to think too much about the Treaty Principles Bill apart from bloody good job, onya guys ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

6 days ago
The hikoi

Like everyone else (everyone who wasn't there, anyway), I've spent the morning watching the hikoi march on Parliament. The pictures are astounding: parliament grounds and the surrounding streets are full, and there are still people backed up along Lambton Quay. The police are estimating 35,000 people, and that's a floor ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

6 days ago
Why Govt & NZ Inc should boycott & regulate Facebook

The CEOs of Westpac NZ and Kiwibank say Facebook is rife with fraud but reporting scam ads gets no response. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, November 19: The ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

6 days ago
How should we talk about change?

A better world isn’t just possible, it’s desirable. And that’s how we should frame a lot of our conversations around making a greater Auckland. As an example take urban climate action. A climate friendly Auckland: Is free from congestion Enables people to travel how they choose Is filled with ...

Greater AucklandBy Connor Sharp

7 days ago
AMA + Holiday Webworm Merch!

Hi,It’s AMA time again — so anything that’s on your mind that you wanna ask, ask away in the comments. This is one of my favourite things to do with full Webworm members, who are the heart of this community of Worms. Journalism? Documentary making? Short Poppies? Cats? Podcasting? What ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

7 days ago
Discount Code for Webworm Merch!

Hi,So there’s a bunch of new stuff on the Webworm store (www.webworm.store) — just in time for the Holidays. Read more ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

7 days ago
Trying to defuse the tension

There were urgent moves yesterday at Parliament to try and defuse the tension building up over ACT’s Treaty Principles Bill. The Bill’s author, ACT leader David Seymour, told reporters that he understood the Justice Select Committee met yesterday to discuss how long it should take to consider submissions on the ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

7 days ago
An Irritable NZ Pawn – David Seymour Admits Treaty Principles Bill will clear the way for deve...

This morning I discovered a post I’d written 10-11 months ago, lamenting how New Zealand’s ACT Party and their foreign and local surrogates would play out anti-Māori propaganda - which I believe they have long prepared for.At the time, it was a plea for action and readiness from my fellow ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

7 days ago
Gordon Campbell On The Hikoi Arrival, And Tyler Childers

Politicians like to bang on all about the need to heal society’s racial/economic divisions, but in their actions they’re more keen on stoking those divisions, with the Treaty Principles Bill being the classic example. The Bill seeks to dilute the Crown’s responsibilities to Māori at the same time as it ...

WerewolfBy ScoopEditor

7 days ago
Socially Backwards and Fiscally Forwards: the False Ideological Divide and the “Conservative” Li...

Nearly two weeks on from the US election, and we are still mentally wrangling with the results. How did this happen? Which voter demographics went where? What did the Democrats do wrong? Meanwhile here in New Zealand, we’re left wondering how this will apply to us and what this means ...

Sapphi’s SubstackBy Sapphi

7 days ago
Kaamos: Accepted

I appreciate that A Phuulish Fellow has been fairly quiet recently. That’s a combination of two things – comparatively little in the way of relevant material to discuss (at least until The War of the Rohirrim comes out next month), and my general work on The Secret Non-Fiction Writing Project. ...

A Phuulish FellowBy strda221

1 week ago
Here’s how governments could fix their Paris climate commitment failures

This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Governments around the world face a conundrum. Virtually none are on track to meet their Paris climate commitments. That includes the United States, which committed to cut its emissions at least 50% below 2005 levels by 2030 but is only on track for 32-43% cuts ...

Skeptical Science

1 week ago
Unstoppable.

Too Big To Fail: Forty-three years after the 1981 Springbok Tour protests, Maori defenders of te Tiriti, by their own efforts, and using their own resources, are poised to descend on the capital with upwards of 100,000 followers at their back, and no force in front of them even remotely ...

Bowalley Road

1 week ago
Katherine Trebeck – An Alternative Economic Narrative

The era of neoliberalism has been destructive on so many levels, with a huge growth in wealth and privilege for the one percent. A hollowing out of the state; fraying of the safety net; inadequate government investment in infrastructure; and continued environmental degradation has resulted in damage on a vast ...

Fabians

1 week ago
In a Manner of Speaking

In a manner of speakingI just want to sayThat I could never forget the wayYou told me everythingBy saying nothingOh, give me the wordsGive me the wordsThat tell me nothingOh, give me the wordsGive me the wordsThat tell me everythingSongwriter: Winston TongNext Tuesday, the subscription price for Nick’s Kōrero will ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 week ago
Monday 18 November 2024

The NZNO have announced a nationwide strike for December over its pay dispute with Health NZ, who have put a 1 per cent cap on pay rises. The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti and Treaty Principles Bill remain front and centre in the media, with the impacts of the Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke-led ...

NZCTUBy Jeremiah Boniface

1 week ago
Shipley warns Seymour’s bill is ‘inviting civil war’

The divisive Treaty Principles Bill is not just a risk for the National Party, it’s a risk to civil order and unity, warns a National Party grandee. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
A clearer network for the City Rail Link?

This post was originally published on Linked In by Nicolas Reid. It is republished here with permission. Auckland is now just a year or so away from having the keystone of its urban rail network complete. As I wrote about here, the City Rail Link will be a literal game changer for ...

Greater AucklandBy Guest Post

1 week ago
National’s support base is wobbling

If ACT leader David Seymour intended the Treaty Principles Bill to drive a wedge into National’s support base, he may well already be succeeding. By midnight on Thursday after the Maori Party haka in Parliament, National MPs were being deluged with emails and messages from their members calling them out ...

PolitikBy Richard Harman

1 week ago
2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #46

A listing of 33 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, November 10, 2024 thru Sat, November 16, 2024. Story of the week Our Story of the Week is completely "meta" (no, not that Meta). It's about our exploring how ...

Skeptical Science

1 week ago
Grifter Eftpos Tamaki at it again

..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Self-appointed “Bishop” and proto-fascist, Brian Tamaki was at it again on 16 November, blocking Auckland’s southern motorway, SH1.This time, the target of his ire wasn’t the Civil Unions Act; covid lock-downs; mask mandates; or ...

Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy

1 week ago
Rip up a bill, lead a haka are words to live by

I cannot stop grabbing people by the lapels, or shoulders, or similar, and raving at them about the tiny miracles in my ears.I can hear again! There could not be a more satisfied customer in all the world.In a noisy cafe I am even catching words that Karren cannot, she ...

More Than A FeildingBy David Slack

1 week ago
Unintended Consequences

Take the baitYou pay the priceIt's much too lateFor good adviceYou know and I know that our good things' throughBecause there's consequences for what we doConsequences for me and youWriters: Kevin Robert Hayes, David Nagier, Bonnie Adele Hayes.Fallout from the first readingOne News began last night by saying that tens ...

Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel

1 week ago
Thank you, driver!

Today, Saturday 16th of November, is Auckland Transport’s Bus Driver Appreciation Day! Saturday 16 November marks the third annual Auckland Transport (AT) ‘Bus Driver Appreciation Day’, and this year we are encouraging all of New Zealand to thank their driver or let the bus go first if you are in ...

Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland

1 week ago
Totally Normal: Holiday Edition

Hi,If I was to accurately sum up my mental state over the week, I’d just say that I got a huge fright from my own shadow.I’d nipped out for an 11pm neighborhood stroll, just to calm down after a day of stress and screens. The Cure and Fazerdaze’s new record ...

David FarrierBy David Farrier

1 week ago
We Are Not Listening

The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...

PunditBy Brian Easton

1 week ago
More lawlessness from National

On Tuesday, sick of government stonewalling, the Waitangi Tribunal issued a rare court order, ordering the Minister of Health to release unredacted documents within 48 hours showing its reasoning for disestablishing Te Aka Whai Ora, the Māori Health Authority. The government's response to the lawful order of a court? Yeah, ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 week ago
National’s tyrannical “foreign interference” law

Yesterday, under cover the the biggest political fight of the year, National quietly - covertly, even - introduced anti-foreign interference legislation. The bill is the product of a years-long work-program aimed at countering shit like this and this, and there's unquestionably a need to do something to counter foreign states' ...

No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant

1 week ago
The Haka Represents The Best Of Us

A few months ago, I was in an audience watching a Haka-Kapa and as I watched children dance and sing and sway and shout and beat, I couldn’t help but think “The Haka represents the best of us.”Yes, yes - there will be a thousand voices that rush forth to ...

Mountain TuiBy Mountain Tui

1 week ago
Adding up the climate cost

St Mary’s Bay housing left hanging: Climate risk is systemically underestimated in the climate scenarios used by central banks, and a new report warns 10,000 houses are set to become uninsurable in Aotearoa. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, here’s the top six news items of note in ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago
Auckland chafing at Bishop’s housing intensification orders

One of the major problems the Government has in implementing its ‘going for housing growth’ strategy is that it isn’t giving much funding help to councils. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and ...

The KakaBy Bernard Hickey

1 week ago

Release: Government should be transparent on live exports

Targeted consultation on reinstating live cattle exports by sea won’t allow the New Zealand public to have their say. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
NZ’s global climate rankings plummet as Govt removes agriculture from ETS

The Government has passed legislation to remove agriculture from the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) while Aotearoa’s reputation on climate action plummets. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Failed boot camp experiment must end

As legislation to set up boot camps passed its first reading, the Green Party urged the Government to abandon this failed policy experiment for the good of our rangatahi. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Gender-affirming care must centre evidence and health needs, not political posturing

The Ministry of Health has today released an evidence brief regarding the use of puberty blockers in gender-affirming healthcare, amid moves by the government to limit access. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Release: National doesn’t care about manufacturing

The National Government is walking away from our manufacturing sector with constant reports of closures and job losses. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Release: David Parker speech – Piketty, Inequality and Climate Change

David Parker's speech from the University of Auckland's forum on Piketty, Inequality and Climate Change in September 2024. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Release: Youth mental wellbeing no longer a priority for Child Poverty Minister

Louise Upston has revealed her diminished vision for vulnerable youth against a backdrop of snubbed advice, scrapped priorities, shifted goal posts and thousands more children projected to fall into poverty. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Release: National’s lack of climate action taking NZ backwards

National Government’s backward-looking climate policy has seen New Zealand fall seven places on the Climate Change Performance Index to 41 out of 63 countries measured. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Release: Simple reason for drop in emergency housing

When the Government says it has reduced the number of people in emergency housing, what it means is it is stopping people from accessing it in the first place. ...

Labour Blog

4 days ago
Govt’s child wellbeing strategy ‘shallow and shameful’

The Government is turning its back on children by not only weakening child poverty reduction targets, but also removing child mental wellbeing as a priority focus in their Child and Youth Wellbeing Strategy. ...

Greens

4 days ago
Release: A historic win for Samoan communities

Labour warmly welcomes the Restoring Samoan Citizenship Bill as it passes its third reading, before becoming law. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Government plan to reinstate live animal exports a “national disgrace”

The Government has taken a giant step backwards by reinstating live animal exports. ...

Greens

5 days ago
Pasifika justice as Member’s Bill passes final reading

Teanau Tuiono’s Member’s Bill, the Citizenship (Western Samoa Restoration) Amendment Bill, has passed its third reading and will become law. ...

Greens

5 days ago
Release: Minister of Education thinks New Zealand ends at the Bombay Hills

The Minister of Education has shown complete disregard for rural communities and their school bus routes in Question Time today. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Economists sound alarm on Government’s slash-and-burn approach

A group of prominent economists has released an open letter to the Government, raising grave concerns about the far-reaching consequences of its fiscal policy. ...

Greens

5 days ago
Release: Smoking numbers up under Costello’s watch

National’s repeal of Labour’s smokefree legislation has taken New Zealand further away from achieving a Smokefree 2025 and a smokefree generation. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Release: Call for Palestine recognition by NZ, Australian and Canadian MPs

Parliamentarians from Australia, Canada and New Zealand have written an open letter to their respective Prime Ministers calling on them to recognise Palestine. ...

Labour Blog

5 days ago
Justice Select Committee opens floor for Treaty Principles submissions

Today, the Justice Select Committee has decided to officially open submissions for the controversial Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

6 days ago
Power of the people on full display as hīkoi approaches Parliament

Today, Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrived in Wellington, with thousands gathering to march in unity against the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

6 days ago
Hypocrisy as Te Whatu Ora contractor bill balloons

Te Whatu Ora’s bill for contracting and consulting staff has ballooned by nearly 20 percent under the National Government, breaking a promise they made during the election campaign to cut contractors. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Release: Growing pressure to scrap Section 7AA Repeal Bill

The newly released Section 7AA Repeal Bill's select committee report is further evidence that the Government should scrap it. ...

Labour Blog

1 week ago
Government’s move to monetise access to nature a slippery slope

The Green Party is voicing serious concerns over the Government’s proposal to charge for access to public conservation land, released today. ...

Greens

1 week ago
Green Party condemns the passage of Treaty Principles Bill

The Green Party condemns the passing of the Treaty Principles Bill at first reading, and is clear that the fight is not over. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Stand Up for Te Tiriti

Te Tiriti o Waitangi is our country’s founding document. It forms the basis of the relationship between Māori and the Crown – and the Aotearoa New Zealand we live in today. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Release: Over 15,000 sign Labour’s open letter to Luxon

As the hīkoi to Parliament continues, Labour has sent an open letter to Prime Minister Christopher Luxon in a last-ditch attempt to get him to kill the Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Fast Track Bill threatens environment, climate and reputation

The fast-track legislation passing its second reading in Parliament is another step towards environmental ruin. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Greens join King’s Counsel in calling for Treaty Principles Bill to be abandoned

The Prime Minister must answer the call from a group of senior lawyers of the King’s Counsel to abandon the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Chris Hipkins’ apology statement to state and faith-based care survivors

...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Release: Labour formally apologises to state and faith-based care survivors

Labour joins with the Government in unreservedly apologising for the abuse, neglect and trauma including torture in state and faith-based care and for ignoring the voices of survivors for too long. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Green Party stands in support of survivors of abuse in care

Today, the Green Party stands alongside the survivors of abuse in state care and faith-based care as the Government issues an historic apology. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Green Party calls for conscience vote on Treaty Principles Bill

The Green Party has written to the Speaker of the House requesting he enable a personal vote on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect

The Green Party is alarmed by the Government’s move to exclude a journalist from covering this week’s apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Without action, an apology will be empty air

For tomorrow’s apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference

Concerns about the tobacco industry’s ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Government’s decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...

Labour Blog

2 weeks ago
Urgent wake-up call on climate

The Climate Change Commission’s latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Green MP’s Meme-ber’s Bill set to save the world

Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carter’s Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...

Greens

2 weeks ago
Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies

Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...

Labour Blog

3 weeks ago
Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill

The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Greens

3 weeks ago
Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...

The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...

Labour Blog

3 weeks ago
NZ must pursue independent foreign policy

The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...

Greens

3 weeks ago

Raising awareness of child exploitation

Customs Minister Casey Costello has praised the work of Customs’ Child Exploitation Operations Team (CEOT) for their commitment to combat the sexual exploitation and abuse of children. This specialist team in Customs features in an hour-long documentary, Unmasking the Monsters, which airs tonight on TVNZ 1. “It’s important that Customs has taken this ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 hours ago
Prime Minister’s scholarships awarded

New Zealand is strengthening its global connections with Asia and Latin America, as 119 individual recipients have been awarded Prime Minister’s Scholarships for education experiences abroad, Tertiary Education and Skills Minister Penny Simmonds says. “Expanding New Zealand’s global engagement through world-class international education is a key government priority,” Ms Simmonds ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

7 hours ago
Climate Minister to see Antarctica research first-hand

Climate Change Minister Simon Watts is travelling to Antarctica on Monday to see the impacts of climate change first-hand and see New Zealand’s scientific work on the ice. “Antarctica is under increasing pressure from climate change, with rapid changes to the Antarctic ice sheet, ice shelves, sea ice, and biodiversity now ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

12 hours ago
Joint Statement: Singapore-New Zealand Article 6 Negotiations reach consensus

Countries have reached a deal on carbon markets at the annual United Nations climate change meeting (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. Co-chaired by Singapore’s Minister for Sustainability and the Environment Grace Fu and New Zealand’s Minister of Climate Change Simon Watts, the negotiations on Article 6 (carbon markets) concluded successfully with ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

13 hours ago
Child Protection Investigation Unit established

A new Child Protection Investigation Unit is being established to ensure the safety and wellbeing of children in care, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “The report released by the Royal Commission into abuse in state care shows us all the risk of not acting immediately when there are serious ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Speech at United States Business Summit 2024

Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Ka mihi ki te mana whenua ko Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei. Kia ora and good morning everyone. Thank you Fran and Simon for inviting me here today, and importantly your leadership of this forum over several years now. I want to acknowledge David Gehrenbeck, Deputy ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Record number of submissions received on granny flat proposal

Nearly 2,000 submissions have been received on the Government’s proposals aimed at making it easier to build a granny flat of up to 60 square metres without a resource or building consent, RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk say. “This is the highest number ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
District Court Judge appointed

Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Rebecca Guthrie as a District Court Judge. Judge Guthrie was admitted to the bar in 1997 following her graduation from the University of Canterbury in 1996 (LLB, BA). She commenced her legal career in Hastings in 1997 before moving to London in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Appointments strengthen Predator Free 2050

The latest Predator Free 2050 Board appointments will help to strengthen biodiversity efforts across Aotearoa New Zealand, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. Mr Potaka today announced two appointments to the Board of Directors of Predator Free 2050 Limited, a key player in the wider Predator Free 2050 Programme. “The Predator ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
New facility in Christchurch will improve the lives of young New Zealanders

Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey today opened Kahurangi, an innovative and much-needed facility for Canterbury’s Child, Adolescent, and Family Mental Health Services. “The new state of the art outpatient facility opened today will be a gamechanger for the way mental health is delivered for young people in Canterbury,” says Mr ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Driver safety screens to be installed on Auckland buses

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news from the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) that bus driver protection screens will be installed across Auckland’s bus fleet by 2026.“The Government is committed to improving the safety of working environments for bus drivers, and Budget 2024 allocated $15 million of Crown funding over ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

3 days ago
Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements

The Government is taking action to ensure Southland farmers and growers are not affected by unreasonable regional farm plan deadlines, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard say.“Cabinet has agreed to provide more time for farmers and growers to comply with regional rules ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Bill reaffirms Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending

The Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Bill had its first reading at Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “In recent years we have seen an unacceptable spike in youth offending. “This Bill makes ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Critical milestones for earthquake buildings review

Fairer, more sensible rules about managing earthquake risks are a step closer with the passing of legislation and the appointment of an independent chair to provide expert advice, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The Government is committed to reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
State of the art radiology machine for Auckland

People in Northland and Auckland will benefit from a new machine for cancer treatment installed at the Regional Cancer and Blood Service at Auckland City Hospital. The MV5 linear accelerator, or LINAC machine, officially opened today targets cancer tumours with pinpoint accuracy. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says this new, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Foreign Minister to visit Europe

Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Europe for high-level talks with France, Germany and the United Kingdom next week. "Since taking office almost a year ago, the Coalition Government has emphasised the importance we place on New Zealand's traditional and likeminded diplomatic and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
First arrests made under gang patch ban

Police have made their first arrests under the new gang patch legislation, with two gang members arrested, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “Just before 11 this morning, Police in Wairoa apprehended a gang member for wearing a patch to the supermarket. He has been arrested and will now face enforcement ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Better support for victims of sexual violence

The Government is proposing two major changes to name suppression laws that will put the views of victims of sexual violence first, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “We are committed to restoring law and order and these two proposed changes will help ensure the victims of crime are put at ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Government moving forward with Regional Deals

Cabinet has agreed to invite all regions to submit proposals for Regional Deals between central and local government that drive economic growth and deliver the infrastructure our country needs, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop say. Inviting all regions to propose a Regional Deal that boosts ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
MSA pilot participant update

One of the ten young men selected to participate in the Military-Style Academy Pilot has allegedly reoffended. Children’s Minister Karen Chhour is disappointed but says it would be naïve to think that none of these young men would reoffend. “I’m saddened that this young person has not taken this opportunity ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Fighting for Kiwis in Trade

Delivered at Auckland Trade and Economic Policy School Good morning and thank you Deputy Vice Chancellor Lithander for your warm welcome and for inviting me to open Auckland Trade and Economic Policy School today. A Special thanks to the University of Auckland, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Attendance rates increase, again

Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that school attendance is continuing to rise. In Term 3 of 2024 51.3 per cent of students attended school regularly, an increase of 5.3 percentage points from 46 per cent in Term 3 of 2023. “This Government has prioritised student attendance and it is ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

4 days ago
Improving the lives of young New Zealanders

Ensuring New Zealand is the best place in the world for children and young people is the vision at the heart of the Government’s new Child and Youth Strategy, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. “Childhood represents a huge opportunity to set people on a positive path towards living ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea

The Government is reinstating the trade of livestock exports by sea while ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare, says Associate Minister of Agriculture Andrew Hoggard.“The Government will introduce legislation changes to reinstate the trade, enhance oversight, and strengthen requirements for exporters to identify risks and manage the welfare of ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
Speech to the National Quality Forum 2024

Tēnā koutou katoa – it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
New Zealand’s COP29 National Statement

Tēnā koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
Latest Quarterly Investment Report released

The Government has released its second Quarterly Investment Report (QIR) which shows substantial work still to be done by agencies to improve investment reporting and meet the Government’s expectations, Infrastructure and Acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “New Zealand has significant infrastructure and investment needs. The Government is determined to get ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund

Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$10 million to the new Fund for Responding to Loss and Damage while at the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. “New Zealand is joining the global effort to address the significant challenge of responding to ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

5 days ago
Gang crackdown begins at stroke of midnight

The free ride for gangs is over when the clock strikes midnight tonight, with tough new laws officially coming into effect, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell say. “Gang patches will no longer be able to be worn in public. To earn the right to wear a ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils

The Government is welcoming the decision by the Local Government Funding Agency to increase access to financing tools for fast growing councils to support greater investment in critical infrastructure, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says.“Communities across the country are facing an infrastructure deficit and significant population growth is projected in ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed

The Government has revealed that over the past three years, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has spent an eyewatering $786 million of taxpayers’ money on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“When I became Minister, I was surprised to learn that that NZTA did ...

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6 days ago
Jurisdiction of Disputes Tribunal to double

Legislation that will double the financial jurisdiction of the Disputes Tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000 has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. “We need to improve court timeliness and access to justice so that Kiwis and get on with their lives. Court delays affect everyone, the ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference

Legislation that will specifically criminalise foreign interference and strengthen espionage offences has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It is normal and appropriate for states to interact and work to influence one another. This encourages cooperation and can have mutually beneficial outcomes. “However, the reality ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Significant milestone for Canterbury Road of National Significance

Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news that the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board has approved funding towards pre-implementation and early works on the State Highway 1 (SH1) Belfast to Pegasus Motorway and Woodend Bypass Road of National Significance (RoNS). “Reaching this significant milestone is a reflection of our Government’s ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Health survey results to help drive change

Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says findings from the annual Health Survey highlight the need to continue driving better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The New Zealand Health Survey is an annual snapshot of key metrics measured from July 2023 – July 2024. Findings released this morning include: In 2023/24, ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Final push needed to get to Smokefree 2025

A renewed effort to get people to quit smoking will build on what has worked to date and target the groups who most need support, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello said today. “The latest New Zealand Health Survey results show the daily smoking rate at 6.9 per cent and we ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
New diplomatic appointments

Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced four new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

6 days ago
Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill

Regulation Minister David Seymour has today announced the next steps in the Government’s plan improve the quality of regulation by opening consultation on a proposed Regulatory Standards Bill. “New Zealand's low wages can be blamed on low productivity, and low productivity can be blamed on poor regulation,” says Mr Seymour. ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

7 days ago
Red Tape Tipline goes live

Minister for Regulation David Seymour has today announced that the Ministry for Regulation’s Red Tape Tipline is now live. “We want to hear about your red tape horror stories. From today, New Zealanders will have a say on how they are regulated through an online portal,” says Mr Seymour. The ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

7 days ago
Youth Parliament 2025 announced

The Minister for Youth Matt Doocey has today announced the eleventh Youth Parliament will be taking place in 2025. “Youth Parliament offers a unique youth development opportunity to young people from across New Zealand to experience the political process and learn about how government works,” says Mr Doocey. “The two-day ...

BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz

1 week ago

Greens capitulate, announcing they will ‘wave through’ Labor’s Help to Buy and Build to Rent h...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The government has stared down the Greens over its Help to Buy and Build to Rent housing legislation, with the minor party announcing late Monday it will “wave through” the legislation in the Senate this ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

1 hour ago
After nearly 10 years of debate, COP29’s carbon trading deal is seriously flawed

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Dooley, Senior Research Fellow, School of Geography, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, The University of Melbourne Negotiators at the COP29 climate conference in Baku have struck a landmark agreement on rules governing the global trade of carbon credits, bringing to a close ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

1 hour ago
Rising antisemitism looms large over the lives of Jewish Australians. Here’s what can be done

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matteo Vergani, Associate professor, Deakin University Last week, emergency services were called to the Sydney suburb of Woollahra, where a car was found engulfed in flames. While the blaze was quickly extinguished, the situation soon escalated. Police discovered that around a ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 hours ago
Many of Israel’s Western supporters indicate they would arrest Netanyahu. Will Australia and NZ fo...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Donald Rothwell, Professor of International Law, Australian National University Ever since the October 7 2023 Hamas terrorist attack on Israel, the Albanese government has consistently said Australia respects Israel’s right to defend itself, but how it does so matters. To an ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

2 hours ago
The Australia-Pacific bid to host UN climate talks in 2026 is in limbo. What now?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Wesley Morgan, Research Associate, Institute for Climate Risk and Response, UNSW Sydney Australia and Pacific island nations had hoped to leave this year’s global climate talks in Azerbaijan having won a bid to host the 2026 summit. Instead, that decision on who ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
COP29: Pacific climate advocates decry outcome as ‘a catastrophic failure’

RNZ Pacific The United Nations climate change summit COP29 has “once again ignored” the Pacific Islands, a group of regional climate advocacy organisations say. The Pacific Islands Climate Action Network (PICAN) said today that “the richest nations turned their backs on their legal and moral obligations” as the UN meeting ...

Evening ReportBy Asia Pacific Report

3 hours ago
Banning under-16s from social media may be unconstitutional – and ripe for High Court challenge

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sarah Joseph, Professor of Human Rights Law, Griffith University Shutterstock On November 21 2024, the Albanese government unveiled its bill to introduce a minimum age of 16 for most social media platforms. The government claims the bill is necessary to protect ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

3 hours ago
Climate Finance Commitments Triple At Close Of COP29 – Expert Reaction

The so-called “finance COP” in Baku, Azerbaijan has just concluded with agreement on the Baku Finance Goal. This aims to replace developed countries’ previous commitment to provide NZ$171 billion annually by 2020. ...

Scoop politics

4 hours ago
Is TikTok right? Are there health benefits to eating sea moss?

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Margaret Murray, Senior Lecturer, Nutrition, Swinburne University of Technology Plataresca/Shutterstock Sea moss is the latest “superfood” wellness influencers are swearing by. They claim sea moss products – usually in gel form – have multiple health benefits. These include supporting brain and ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

4 hours ago
Christopher Luxon and Police Commissioner announce new Auckland police station

Commissioner Richard Chambers says it will make responding to crime in the CBD faster and more effective. ...

Radio NZ – political

4 hours ago
Cristopher Luxon and Police Commissioner announce new Auckland police station

Commissioner Richard Chambers says it will make responding to crime in the CBD faster and more effective. ...

Radio NZ – political

4 hours ago
A milestone legal case from 35 years ago holds important lessons for how courts deal with scientific...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Laura Dawes, Research Fellow in Medico-Legal History, Australian National University Peter Krocka/Shutterstock This month marks 35 years of DNA evidence being used in Australian legal cases. But unlike DNA firsts in other countries, Autralia’s is perhaps the most significant legal milestone ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

5 hours ago
Character references tell a court you’re a good person. Why are convicted rapists allowed to use t...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vicki Lowik, Adjunct Research Fellow, School of Nursing, Midwifery and Social Sciences, CQUniversity Australia The Conversation,Elīna Arāja/Pexels In a recent Newcastle trial, a jury found three men guilty on multiple charges of sexually assaulting three teenage girls over two nights. The ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

7 hours ago
Human exclamations of pain are similar across the world, new study reveals

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Maïa Ponsonnet, Researcher, Linguistics, The University of Western Australia KitohodkA/Shutterstock We all know what words we might shout out when we stub a toe or touch something hot. For those of us who speak English, it’s probably “ouch”. But what kinds ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

7 hours ago
NZ’s new cultural policy will be called Amplify. It is timely and needed, but not ambitious enough

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Wenley, Senior Lecturer, Te Whare Ngangahau–Theatre and Performance Studies, Te Herenga Waka — Victoria University of Wellington Anthony DELANOIX/Unsplash The arts and cultural activity of Aotearoa New Zealand enhances our global reputation, grows our economy and brings us fulfilment as ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

7 hours ago
Surgeries being rejected to game waitlist targets, Labour says

The Opposition alleges the number of people going onto waitlists is being limited, as GPs complain of referrals being rejected. ...

Radio NZ – political

7 hours ago
Surgeries being rejected to game waitlist targets, Labour alleges

The Opposition says the number of people going onto waitlists is being limited, as GPs complain of referrals being rejected. ...

Radio NZ – political

7 hours ago
Louisa Wall says TJ Perenara’s Treaty statement during haka was censored

The former Black Fern, Silver Fern and Labour MP she "watched with pride" at how departing All Black TJ Perena used the side's haka. ...

Radio NZ – political

8 hours ago
Warm and friendly or competent and straightforward? What students want from AI chatbots in the class...

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shahper Richter, Senior Lecturer in Digital Marketing, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Artificial intelligence (AI) is rapidly transforming education, with schools and universities increasingly experimenting with AI chatbots to assist students in self-directed learning. These digital assistants offer immediate feedback, ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

8 hours ago
Review: Thomasin McKenzie out-sasses Bill Nighy in Netflix’s Joy

Alex Casey reviews a cosy British biopic celebrating a groundbreaking moment in scientific history that many tried to erase. What’s all this then? A classic British underdog story that would sit nicely alongside Brassed Off, Made in Dagenham, and Kinky Boots, Joy charts the true story of the renegade research ...

The SpinoffBy Alex Casey

8 hours ago
Gov’t Needs To Put Taxpayers First After $500 Billion COP Deal

Taxpayers’ Union Communications Officer Alex Emes called the deal “a move towards global socialism” due to the agreed upon large transfer of wealth from countries like New Zealand to the third world. ...

Scoop politics

9 hours ago
New Zealand Ports Urged To End Live Animal Exports As Maritime Union Takes Stand

AJP Welcomes Maritime Union's Historic Stand Against Live Exports. ...

Scoop politics

9 hours ago
Oxfam Says COP29 Deal Is A “Global Ponzi Scheme”

Oxfam Aotearoa’s Climate Justice Lead Nick Henry said: "The failure to meet the global need for climate finance is a failure of empathy from the leaders of rich countries." ...

Scoop politics

9 hours ago
COP29 ‘Bandaid Over A Bullet Wound’, Polluters Should Expect Resistance – Greenpeace

We know how to cut emissions - we have all the technology and tools to do so. What’s needed is political will to put these tools into action. ...

Scoop politics

10 hours ago
Here’s what was – and wasn’t – achieved at the Cop29 climate talks

At the outset, expectations were low – but even with considerable headwinds, progress was made. The petroleum-laden dust has settled on this year’s United Nations climate summit, Cop29, held over the past fortnight in Baku, Azerbaijan. Climate scientists, leaders, lobbyists and delegates are heading for home. The meeting achieved ...

The SpinoffBy Jacqueline Peel

11 hours ago
Principals’ anger over cutbacks to ‘jolly good’ school lunch scheme

At least two schools have opted out of the revised free lunch scheme for next year. ...

Radio NZ – political

11 hours ago
Patients referred for orthopaedic surgery not even making waiting lists

"It felt as though my hip was going to collapse," says Heather Tanguay, 80, while doctors say their referrals are now being rejected over a "lack of resources". ...

Radio NZ – political

11 hours ago
The great Spinoff summer 2024 tech gift guide

From hard-working headphones to top-of-the-line tablets, these are a few of our favourite gadgets. For some, the summer months are a time to switch off their devices, to venture out into the sunshine armed with nothing more than a paperback novel and a large floppy hat. Not us! This is ...

The SpinoffBy The Spinoff

11 hours ago
Police Minister Mark Mitchell criticises cop posing with gang patch

Mark Mitchell say the behaviour of a police officer posing for cameras while wearing a gang patch in the office fell short . ...

Radio NZ – political

11 hours ago
Security breach as Christopher Luxon’s itinerary left on police car dashboard

The itinerary was visible in the police car in Queenstown on Sunday. ...

Radio NZ – political

12 hours ago
Why parents need to be like Big Ted and ‘talk aloud’ while they use screens with their kids

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Highfield, Associate Professor, Early Childhood Education Academic Lead, University of Canberra Screen use and internet safety are two of the top concerns Australian parents have about their kids’ health and wellbeing – even ranking ahead of diet, exercise and depression. ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

13 hours ago
TJ Perenara’s Tiriti haka addition welcomed by both Te Pāti Māori and David Seymour

The All Black used the side's haka ahead of their match against Italy to show support for the recent hikoi. ...

Radio NZ – political

13 hours ago
Helen Clark Foundation Calls For Political Action To Reduce The Prevalence Of Junk Food And Improve ...

The report argues the long-standing government approach that relies on people taking sole responsibility for their health and the choices they make, will continue to fail unless the obesity conversation shifts from the individual to the wider food ...

Scoop politics

13 hours ago
Australia in a baby bust? It’s not that simple – and a panic won’t help

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Edith Gray, Professor, School of Demography, Australian National University Photo by ADIEL MALKA/Pexels There is a seemingly endless stream of news headlines about plummeting birth rates. Many have alarmist narratives about the perils of “baby busts” and “population decline”. This reflects ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

13 hours ago
Why Monday is the most dangerous day on a building site

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Milad Haghani, Senior Lecturer of Urban Risk & Resilience, UNSW Sydney M2020/Shutterstock Australia’s construction industry employs more than 1.3 million workers. That’s about 9% of the workforce. But construction sites can be dangerous workplaces. There are also more accidents on a ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

13 hours ago
‘Divorce’ in songbirds: extreme weather pushes couples past breaking point

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Frigg Janne Daan Speelman, PhD Candidate in behavioural ecology, Macquarie University Coulanges/Shutterstock Like humans, many animals form lasting monogamous relationships. Most birds pair up to produce and raise offspring together over many years. However, as with humans, they also commonly “divorce” ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

13 hours ago
Green hydrogen could decarbonise entire industries in NZ – but there’s a long way to go

Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jannik Haas, Senior Lecturer of Sustainable Systems, University of Canterbury Getty Images Hydrogen has been called the “Swiss army knife” of decarbonisation because it can do many things. But not all of them make sense. Today, the world uses about ...

Evening ReportBy The Conversation

13 hours ago
Creative sector welcomes draft government strategy, but calls for more funds

Many say NZ is well behind the rest of the world in developing and supporting its creative professionals. ...

Radio NZ – political

15 hours ago
Peters’ push to turn Europe’s eyes south

The Foreign Minister is headed to Europe, where he will deliver the last of seven major speeches of the past year The post Peters’ push to turn Europe’s eyes south appeared first on Newsroom. ...

NewsroomBy Laura Walters

15 hours ago
Death of a feminist legend

In March, on the twentieth anniversary of the death of a brilliant feminist thinker from Auckland who became a superstar in US academia, Justin Okin wrote a moving tribute to his mother, Susan Moller Okin, on International Women’s Day. “She was arguably the most influential feminist political philosopher of her ...

NewsroomBy Judith Galtry

15 hours ago

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
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