This is the day *

Written By: - Date published: 8:15 am, October 16th, 2017 - 120 comments
Categories: Deep stuff, election 2017, greens, labour, national, nz first, Politics, winston peters - Tags:

This is the day when it is predicted we will know who will lead the next Government although after listening to Bill English on Morning Report this morning I am not so sure.

English stated that there have been policy discussions only and no negotiations about the type of support or of potential cabinet positions.  They will have to be fast if they want to deal with these today.

In either event the New Zealand Board will be meeting and discussing which option it prefers.

The choice seems to be very close.  I have been becoming cautiously optimistic and thinking that the change of Government that our country desperately needs may indeed happen.  We are currently in the worst of both worlds where a cost accounting approach to the complexity of Government and the enormity of the issues that we are facing coupled with an anti ordinary person belligerence is running down our public institutions and resulting in the lives of ordinary kiwis becoming increasingly impoverished.  As Rob so elegantly put it this Government is great at spin but awful at governing.

But the vote this election was clearly a vote for change.  And New Zealand First insiders are very aware of this.  Former MP Pita Paraone had some very relevant comments in this morning’s Herald.  From the Herald:

“Personally, I feel the winds of change,” he told the Herald. “I think the decision they must make is one that will also ensure the future of New Zealand First. And I think one of the things they have got to consider is people quite clearly want change.”

Paraone said while National was easily the biggest party, a majority of voters didn’t support it. He said leader Winston Peters and others in today’s crucial meeting would be thinking about what each option meant for the long-term future of the party.

Peters would remember 1996 when NZ First eventually backed the incumbent National Party, Paraone said.

“New Zealand First certainly paid for that in 1999. And that time in 1996 people were asking for a change, too. In fact a lot of people supported New Zealand First in anticipation of that change.”

The Herald leak story about the Kermadec sanctuary is a potential worry.  It has been Labour policy and I have supported the proposal in the past but there are a lots of fish hooks (excuse the pun) and Labour subsequently withdrew its support for the proposal.  And New Zealand First has opposed it in the past on the basis that it breaches the 1992 Maori Fisheries Treaty settlement.

But time will tell.  Will we have three more years of this stifling micro managed troup of cost accountants and a continuation of all the different forms of dirty politics or will we have something better?

And to finish with a very appropriate piece of music …

120 comments on “This is the day * ”

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  1. marty mars 1
    16 October 2017 at 8:23 am

    This works for me

    https://youtu.be/e4Ao-iNPPUc

    Can’t see a decision today but when it happens the thunder and lightening will follow. Kia kaha.

    • Enough is Enough 1.1
      16 October 2017 at 10:47 am

      I can’t see a decision today.

      I think week’s end is a better bet.

      NZ First may make an internal decision today (if that decision has not already been made), but finalising the exact arrangement will take more than 5 minutes.

      • marty mars 1.1.1
        16 October 2017 at 10:53 am

        Yep whichever way it goes there will disappointment and Winnie knows what that backlash feels like. All the gooses (deliberate) have to fly in formation and have to be honking in unison from the same songsheet and that takes time to organise.

    • edgil 1.2
      16 October 2017 at 7:00 pm

      Thank you Marty for introducing me to Steve N’ Seagulls.
      Fantastic,
      Thanks again.

  2. Anne 2
    16 October 2017 at 8:58 am

    This is the day. Doesn’t look like it.

    According to English there has been no discussion around portfolios yet. Sounds like there is also quite a bit of other negotiating still to go unless…

    unless a deal has already been struck with Labour and the fine tuning is in progress.

    Nah. Won’t believe it unless it happens.

    • BM 2.1
      16 October 2017 at 9:08 am

      It’s all bit Mickey Mouse and unprofessional.
      Good luck Labour and the Greens having to deal with the senile old coot.

      • Anne 2.1.1
        16 October 2017 at 9:18 am

        He’s certainly getting a tad more cantankerous in his old age.

        • JanM 2.1.1.1
          16 October 2017 at 10:00 am

          At his age and having dealt with as many stupid people as he has had to over the years, he is entitled to be cantankerous, IMO

          • Anne 2.1.1.1.1
            16 October 2017 at 10:28 am

            There’s some truth there…

          • cleangreen 2.1.1.1.2
            16 October 2017 at 6:20 pm

            500% Jan bang on,

            Winston can see how low we have gone in our Media and lack of any respect within parliament itself.

            Just watch parliament any day to see it has become a bloody circus.

            The speaker is another idiotic clown as he shouts and stops productive discussion within parliament. David carter surely must leave as he has been the worst speaker I have evern seen.

            • Michael who failed Civics 2.1.1.1.2.1
              16 October 2017 at 7:27 pm

              That might happen. Carter and Winston fell out with each other a few years ago and, reportedly, Winston blackballed Carter from scoring the High Commissioner’s gig in London (traditionally a sinecure for a superannuated political has-been) last year. Hence the bad-tempered exchanges between the two over points of order and the like. However, I’m sure Bill English will put the dignity and mana of a venerable, and very rich, caucus member before tawdry considerations of political expediency and back Carter all the way, even at the cost of having to move from the 9th floor of the Beehive.

      • Skinny 2.1.2
        16 October 2017 at 9:39 am

        Hold all tickets a desperate National will be offering up all sorts of cabinet positions that Labour will at least have to match.

        At first blush I would imagine Winston gets Trade or Foreign Affairs. Fletcher Associate Finance. Jones Economic Development & Associate Maori Affairs, Darroch Associate Education, Tracy Social Welfare, Ron Defence. Clayton Racing and Associate Employment.

        A pretty good match up indeed. I can not see too much push back for National or Labour since there is a bit of room for the Greens in the rest of the mix.

        Fully expect it will be a wicked Wednesday announcement, unless National keep coming back with more offerings to remain in power, however I would think Peters calls for all bids in his hand end of play tomorrow, all done last call are you in or out?

        • BM 2.1.2.1
          16 October 2017 at 9:48 am

          I’d tell Mr 7% to fuck off, he’s not worth the hassle.

          Peters is the Ted McGinley of NZ politics anyone who goes near him is doomed.

          • Robert Guyton 2.1.2.1.1
            16 October 2017 at 10:48 am

            Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!!!

          • Enough is Enough 2.1.2.1.2
            16 October 2017 at 11:16 am

            It would be fantastic if Bill or Jacinda did just tell him to fuck off and end this Winston lead circus.

            It would be great to see one of them come out today and say we are unwilling to concede to the outrageous demands of a party that commands such little electoral support and as such we have brought an end to negotiations.

            It would be condemning their party to three years in opposition but given that 2020 is almost a foregone conclusions (Labour/Green winning) it wouldn’t be the worst decision in the world.

            • Jay 2.1.2.1.2.1
              16 October 2017 at 7:42 pm

              Yes I totally agree, this circus is highly undignified. Anybody who does that will surely come out the winner in the long run

          • Skinny 2.1.2.1.3
            16 October 2017 at 11:29 am

            Speaking of gloom and doom BM I see Pita Parone has come out saying in his opinion pretty much that will happen if NZ First props up National.

          • cleangreen 2.1.2.1.4
            16 October 2017 at 2:24 pm

            National is dooooooooooooooomed

          • Michael who failed Civics 2.1.2.1.5
            16 October 2017 at 7:28 pm

            BM – are you advising the Nats? I certainly hope so.

        • tuppence shrewsbury 2.1.2.2
          16 October 2017 at 10:22 am

          You honestly think it would take this long if Winnie was getting exactly what he demands? I think both Labour and National have held firm and given him the bare minimum, that’s why he’s delaying and trying to gain further advantage. Winnie knows he’s shot his bolt, the only thing he’s playing for is safe seat for Jones

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.2.2.1
            16 October 2017 at 10:26 am

            You RWNJ’s are all so sure that Winston is as corrupt as the National Party leaders.

            • Enough is Enough 2.1.2.2.1.1
              16 October 2017 at 12:07 pm

              He would go reasonably close with his chequered history of been economical with the truth when it comes to donors, Vela Family, Bob Jones, Owen Glenn…

              Just the way he has lied over the past 3 weeks (when he had absolutely no need to) leads me to question everything that comes out of his mouth.

              • WILD KATIPO …
                16 October 2017 at 12:13 pm

                You cannot talk of Winston lying and ignore the last 9 years of lies , – both by Key and English , – and just about every other senior MP in the National party,…

                The pot calling the kettle black ,… as it were.

              • Draco T Bastard …
                16 October 2017 at 1:23 pm

                He certainly can be economical with the truth but that doesn’t mean that he’s solely there for the baubles.

                And I don’t think he likes being in others power. That’s why he left the National Party in the first place and, from what I can make out, one of the reasons why NZ1st/National split in the first MMP government.

              • One Anonymous Bloke …
                17 October 2017 at 8:17 am

                Has he lied?

                He says “we plan to have negotiations done by Thursday”, the media reports “we’ll know who the new government is by Friday”.

                Can you quote him directly to back up your interpretation? I mean, it wouldn’t surprise me if he had lied, I just haven’t seen anything other than media over-reach, that’s all.

          • cleangreen 2.1.2.2.2
            17 October 2017 at 6:53 am

            Truth is that the National party planned coalition with NZF has fallen apart as the nasty natz cannot move off their austerity & uncontrolled imigration path dictated by their ‘paymasters’ (the global elite and their Panama cohorts), so the agreement with the corrupt Natioal Party has fallen apart sorry about this BM/tuppence shrewsbury and their cohorts.

      • Stuart Munro 2.1.3
        16 October 2017 at 9:45 am

        From someone that supports Nick Smith that’s pretty rich.

      • marty mars 2.1.4
        16 October 2017 at 10:29 am

        He’s not senile bm. And he hasnt said what he will do. Wow you are really frightened aren’t you, fair enough, whatever happens will be a change for sure. You have said you’re a survivalist I believe, if true you’ll need to upgrade your attitude because you wouldn’t last 2 days in the bush with your give up approach. Be like a big cat mate, ready to go any direction at any time based on what happens.

      • RC 2.1.5
        16 October 2017 at 10:34 am

        BM Having a sook, good.

      • cleangreen 2.1.6
        16 October 2017 at 1:55 pm

        BM, you sound like what you are calling Winston.
        “the senile old coot.”

        I dont lower my tone to professsional long standing politicians like Winston.

        Winston is 10 times a leader that you think you are.

  3. mac1 3
    16 October 2017 at 9:04 am

    This is the Day.

    Ah the joys of a Catholic education. Bill English will understand this.

    “Dies irae, dies illa
    Solvet saeclum in favilla
    Teste David cum Sybilla.

    Quantus tremor est futurus
    Quando Judex est venturus
    Cuncta stricte discussurus……

    Judex ergo cum sedebit
    Quidquid latet apparebit
    Nil inultum remanebit…….”

    “Oh Day of wrath, that day the heavens dissolve into ashes as David testified with the Sybils.
    What a shaking is predicted, when the Judge comes to judge us strictly……
    As the Judge sits, everything that is hidden will become apparent, nothing will remain unpunished…….”

    Nothing like a bit of Medieval prophecy.

    I do hope that when Labour et al. regain Ministerial authority there will be full and proper investigations into many unseemly transactions and decisions ranging from dodgy MPs to Saudi Arabia, Pike River to aviation fuel pipelines, dirty politics to swamp kauri.

    Then with everything that is hidden become apparent, the people may truly judge and punish. Indeed the last Trump!

  4. Robert Guyton 4
    16 October 2017 at 9:10 am

    Ko tenei te wa

    • Voltaire 4.1
      16 October 2017 at 12:03 pm

      So *THAT* is what that stuff meant !

      I heard it so many times during a knobbling Catholic education.
      When oft recited with drama, fervour, and intensity it sounds impressive,
      but its meaning since the age of enlightenment age is banal.

      V.

      “Dies irae, dies illa
      Solvet saeclum in favilla
      Teste David cum Sybilla.

      Quantus tremor est futurus
      Quando Judex est venturus
      Cuncta stricte discussurus……

      Judex ergo cum sedebit
      Quidquid latet apparebit
      Nil inultum remanebit…….”

      “Oh Day of wrath, that day the heavens dissolve into ashes as David testified with the Sybils.
      What a shaking is predicted, when the Judge comes to judge us strictly……
      As the Judge sits, everything that is hidden will become apparent, nothing will remain unpunished…….”

  5. Anne 5
    16 October 2017 at 9:43 am

    I think this fella has as good a chance as any when it comes to predicting what Winston will do:

    http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/election/2017/10/winston-s-choice-labour-or-national-a-puppy-predicts.html

  6. Draco T Bastard 6
    16 October 2017 at 10:22 am

    …a continuation of all the different forms of dirty politics or will we have something better?

    We’ll still get the Dirty Politics as that’s National Party MO whether they’re in government or opposition.

    There’s a chance that we’ll have a better government. Hopefully one that makes an MP lying actually illegal in no uncertain terms.

  7. Kat 7
    16 October 2017 at 10:39 am

    After reading the absolute tripe from Rachel Smalley on Winston Peters in this mornings Herald one can understand his attitude towards the media. Smalley needs to realise that her opinions are pretty pathetic and do not represent the majority of thinking in NZ. Perhaps only among the 44%.

    • RC 7.1
      16 October 2017 at 11:22 am

      She is a shill one minute attacking National voters the next attacking NZF. Typical soulless MSM Journalist.

    • Fred H 7.2
      16 October 2017 at 11:51 am

      44% out of those who voted, 35% out of those enrolled, and 32% out of those of voting age, the Nats have never captured much more than a 1/3 of the adult population this last decade 🙂
      http://www.elections.org.nz/research-statistics/enrolment-statistics-electorate

      • Wayne 7.2.1
        16 October 2017 at 12:01 pm

        Of course these types of calculations also apply to all the paerties in Parliament.
        This that vote get their vote counted, those who don’t, don’t.

        • Barfly 7.2.1.1
          16 October 2017 at 1:06 pm

          True of course Wayne.

          I believe that voting is a very important right and that it is a duty to society – so much so much that I would like to see voting to be compulsory.

          Any thoughts on that Wayne?

          • Wayne 7.2.1.1.1
            16 October 2017 at 1:21 pm

            Barfly

            I am not a fan of compulsory voting. Compulsory enrolment, yes.

            Eventually, within 2 or 3 elections, I imagine online voting may be possible. That may increase turnout.

            The spelling errors in my previous post were due to sending it from a phone!

            • Draco T Bastard 7.2.1.1.1.1
              16 October 2017 at 1:27 pm

              I am not a fan of compulsory voting.

              Of course you’re not – the people who don’t like National but usually don’t vote would be voting then.

            • cleangreen 7.2.1.1.1.2
              16 October 2017 at 2:08 pm

              National have never captured the majority of voters, in the last decade, thats final.

              National dont klie again whaen you said “National have the majority of voters support”

              National have lost their ability to pass legislation now since MMP stuffed them up ha ha ha!!!!

              I like watching a ‘bluebird’ trapped in a cage now.

              Thanks fred; at 7.2.
              Quote “Nats have never captured much more than a 1/3 of the adult population this last decade”

            • Barfly 7.2.1.1.1.3
              16 October 2017 at 2:33 pm

              Well Wayne I believe pretty much all RW’s don’t like compulsory voting –

              I believe that National’s election strategy has often aimed to reduce the total vote % as the lower the % the better it is for National .

              I’d be very happy if compulsory voting was introduced by the next non-National Party Government.

              • James …
                16 October 2017 at 4:59 pm

                How would you punish all the people who don’t vote ?

                • WILD KATIPO …
                  16 October 2017 at 6:08 pm

                  Non stop archival speeches of Ruth Richardson and Don Brash for a week. At 16 hour stretches , – that’d make sure they didn’t do it again….

                  • cleangreen …
                    17 October 2017 at 7:00 am

                    Brilliant idea WK. – “Non stop archival speeches of Ruth Richardson and Don Brash for a week. At 16 hour stretches”

                    As that would erase those mindless National supporters brains, and set them back to zero.

                    A great leap forwards for humanity.

                • Incognito …
                  16 October 2017 at 9:04 pm

                  See my comment @ 7.2.1.1.1.4

              • Ed …
                16 October 2017 at 9:14 pm

                James does not care about inequality or poverty.
                To him, politics is just a game.

            • Incognito 7.2.1.1.1.4
              16 October 2017 at 9:02 pm

              After the election results have been confirmed and the new Government has been sworn in all non-voters should be send ‘their result’ to show them which way their non-vote has contributed to the end result and final outcome; randomly assign them a party vote that reflects the overall results. That’ll teach at least some to actually vote next time; nice reality check.

    • cleangreen 7.3
      16 October 2017 at 1:59 pm

      Rachael Smalley = a National puppet.

      • Kat 7.3.1
        16 October 2017 at 4:44 pm

        Who is this Ben Mack person saying he is “terrified” of Winston Peters.

        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11933415

        Has the media gone completely bonkers, this is not a good look for the fourth estate having z grade opinion piece’s continually being published. Some bizarre “lifestyle/news” alright.

        • Patricia Bremner 7.3.1.1
          17 October 2017 at 12:13 am

          This is a continuation of demonising Winston. He does want fewer immigrants because our infrastructure is poorly funded bythe current government and 100 000 people per year is putting a huge strain on systems and people.

          He wants the dubious education visas and programmes sorted.

          He wants the stream of cheap labour slowed to allow our own to compete.

          None of these things makes him dangerous.

          Highly emotive writing drawing a long fascist bow is dangerous though.

          Since the final election result is only a week ago, to say this is a drawn out process is rubbish. I think Mac is being ridiculous and no-one could be less dangerous than Winston.

          Winston wants what is best for NZ. He cares. He wouldn’t sell us to the highest bidder, nor would he sell our assets.

  8. WILD KATIPO 8
    16 October 2017 at 11:41 am

    Nobody knows, … the troubles Nats/Labour have seen ,
    nobody knows thier sorrows…
    Nobody knows just what Winstons seen
    Glory, Hallelujah

    Nobody knows the policy’s hes seen
    Nobody knows but Winston
    Nobody knows the deals that hes seen
    Glory, Hallelujah

    Sometimes we’re up
    Sometimes we’re down
    Oh, yes, Lord
    Sometimes we’re almost to the ground
    Oh, yes, Lord

    Oh, nobody knows the troubles they’ve seen
    Nobody knows their sorrow
    Nobody knows the trouble they’ve seen
    Glory, Hallelujah

  9. Me 9
    16 October 2017 at 12:04 pm

    I bet my partner $50. NZF would go with Lab/Green.

    It’s a win-win for her.

  10. Adrian 10
    16 October 2017 at 12:27 pm

    Maybe the negotiations really have only been about policies and direction and that is all that Winston is taking to his caucus and board and that way he can not be accused of going with whatever ministerial inducements that would be offered.
    English’s confusion and anguish looks like surprise that the Nats haven’t been asked to open up the bribe drawer, surprising to him because it is Nationals normal way of doing business.
    Let’s give Winnie the benefit of the doubt for the moment that is all about the fit and what’s best for the country.
    Jacinda also indicated that it has only been all about the policy fit although she did pull the old couple of packets of biscuits out of the hat trick.
    Gifting eh, watch the RWNJs arc up about that if they lose out.

    • cleangreen 10.1
      16 October 2017 at 2:10 pm

      Tue it is all about the policies Adrian.

      Winston and Jacinda have both been clear about this.

  11. greywarshark 11
    16 October 2017 at 12:29 pm

    Smile – this is the day that the Lord has made.
    (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cccJhMVFrLs

  12. Brian Tregaskin 12
    16 October 2017 at 12:44 pm

    Manic Street Preachers – If You Tolerate This Your Children Will Be Next

    This song is relevant to these days more then ever.

    The future teaches you to be alone
    The present to be afraid and cold
    So if I can shoot rabbits
    Then I can shoot fascists

    Bullets for your brain today
    But we’ll forget it all again
    Monuments put from pen to paper
    Turns me into a gutless wonder

    And if you tolerate this
    Then your children will be next
    And if you tolerate this
    Then your children will be next
    Will be next
    Will be next
    Will be next

    Gravity keeps my head down
    Or is it maybe shame
    At being so young and being so vain

    Holes in your head today
    But I’m a pacifist
    I’ve walked La Ramblas
    But not with real intent

    And if you tolerate this
    Then your children will be next
    And if you tolerate this
    Then your children will be next
    Will be next
    Will be next
    Will be next
    Will be next

    And on the street tonight an old man plays
    With newspaper cuttings of his glory days

    And if you tolerate this
    Then your children will be next
    And if you tolerate this
    Then your children will be next
    Will be next
    Will be next
    Will be next

  13. WILD KATIPO 13
    16 October 2017 at 1:02 pm

    Hehehe… in reflecting on the amazing ability all parties to these coalition deals have had in maintaining secrecy ,… its a real wonder so many big nations have their national security so easily and regularly compromised…

    Moral of the story ? , – low technology ( talking to someone face to face ) versus high technology (telecommunications , data banks and the like ) wins out. 🙂

    Great deals made over a nice hot cup of tea .

  15. mary_a 15
    16 October 2017 at 2:10 pm

    Might as well be “today’s the day the teddy bears have their picnic”, for all the action we are going to see on the political front anytime soon.

  16. cleangreen 16
    16 October 2017 at 2:19 pm

    Ha ha MARY_A
    “today’s the day the teddy bears have their picnic”,

    Yes and the board is hotel booked in tonight so it may go on for days yet.

    Apparently Winston wants the greens to signoff first before the NZF board and caucus Committee decicde their preference after, so they need to wait for Greens to agree to a labour coalition firstly.

    • weka 16.1
      16 October 2017 at 2:25 pm

      “Apparently Winston wants the greens to signoff first before the NZF board and caucus Committee decicde their preference after, so they need to wait for Greens to agree to a labour coalition firstly.”

      Source for that?

      • cleangreen 16.1.1
        16 October 2017 at 2:48 pm

        Come out in a news broadcast last night, Weka, – so I will search for it now and post later.

        From memory I think it was the late news on RNZ or TV one, coupled with a clip from James Shaw saying theyare ready with their 170 Candidates to teleconferece on final labour agreement.

        The report said ‘that gives Greens only at the latest to comlete the agreement on Monday morning till noon.

        I think it was on RNZ. – with Jane Patterson here is her earlier statemnet on this last friday.

        http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/341432/black-friday-coalition-not-likely

        “As the party with less negotiating power, the Greens are somewhat at the mercy of Labour, despite holding only one seat fewer than New Zealand First, at eight and nine seats respectively.
        They are operating on blind faith to some degree, prompting a warning from the former MP Sue Bradford to not “go soft” during the talks.
        They will have to call a Special General Meeting of 170 national delegates to ratify the deal, and that is likely to be a ‘take it or leave it’ situation for those delegates; the reference group is very aware of the limited opportunity to negotiate past that point, and will draft the proposal accordingly.
        That meeting may have to be held before a final sign-off between Labour and New Zealand First so Labour can give an assurance that Greens support is not an obstacle to a three-way deal.”

  17. Voltaire 17
    16 October 2017 at 2:42 pm

    I think we should all go and watch the latest version of the Rocky Horror Picture Show so we can quiver with anticippppation.

    Winston owes voters of all political persuasions an explanation.

    Voltaire

    • Robert Guyton 17.1
      16 October 2017 at 2:44 pm

      Watt?

      • Mickey Boyle 17.1.1
        16 October 2017 at 2:50 pm

        Let us all bow our heads and meditate…..ohmmmmmmm

        • Mickey Boyle 17.1.1.1
          16 October 2017 at 2:54 pm

          Come on, you know resistance is futile…..

          • McFlock 17.1.1.1.1
            16 October 2017 at 2:54 pm

            but we’re just getting amp’d up!

            • mac1 17.1.1.1.1.1
              16 October 2017 at 3:09 pm

              Politics is all about current affairs, and a faulty earth……..

              • joe90 …
                16 October 2017 at 3:36 pm

                ..and being well grounded..

                • joe90 …
                  16 October 2017 at 3:37 pm

                  …but I’m neutral…

                  • Andre …
                    16 October 2017 at 3:40 pm

                    No relentless positivity from you, then?

                    • joe90 …
                      16 October 2017 at 3:46 pm

                      ..totally un-phased, and I’m sure my rotation is correct…

                    • joe90 …
                      16 October 2017 at 3:47 pm

                      …but on occasion, I have been transposed…

                    • happynz …
                      16 October 2017 at 4:25 pm

                      Why’re you going on like that? 😉

                    • Mickey Boyle …
                      16 October 2017 at 4:28 pm

                      It’s all to do with his earth loop impedance Andre, something has seriously gone wrong with his surge protector, im thinking he has put far too much energy through his diodes.

                    • Robert Guyton …
                      16 October 2017 at 7:18 pm

                      I think what “Voltaire” is trying to say, through the click-and-pop background is that the clock throttling he senses from the political current mode logic is creating a crowbar curcuit in his daisy chain
                      and bringing of some sort of deterministic jitter in his digital long pot, resulting in serious dithering in his drypack and frame relay. Meanwhile glitch immunity in his homeplug will be causing hot swap and an enhanced idealty factor in his op-amp open drain, with formation of tin whiskers in his through-hole and totem pole – is it any wonder he’s phazed?

                    • Incognito …
                      16 October 2017 at 9:11 pm

                      Well, we all know that Winston has a short fuse and he could easily blow it. And then we’d be all in the dark. There certainly is an under-current of displeasure to be detected.

    • cleangreen 17.2
      16 October 2017 at 2:53 pm

      Voltaire – Winston only has to clearly state our hard fought NZF poicies to his board and caucus and ask for their support Voltaire so take your batteries out and shut off and chiill out as we have done for nine years of sheer hell under your National Government.

      Learn democracy and dont blame it all on Winston, as national always will do to anyone they did before like Cunliffe, Goff & Shearer, & Ardern with the false $11.7 billion hole, remember?

      • Voltaire 17.2.1
        16 October 2017 at 9:02 pm

        You mistakenly assume that I am a member of NZ First. I’m not.

        Both ‘National’ and ‘NZFirst’ champion seek different brands of Nationalism which in trumps other issues. Nationalists in other jurisdictions are often viewed as reactionary (eg. Scottish nationalist, Irish nationalist, german nationalist .. which brings us to
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalism

        No party is perfect .. but I am of the view that NZ badly needs a change of personel, policy, and generation. Need I mention gender ? Harvey Weinstein is an example of what happens when there are no checks and balances. Power corrupts. Aotearoa/NZ needs renovation.

  18. Robert Guyton 18
    16 October 2017 at 3:06 pm

    The Greens are being portrayed as being in a powerless position as the negotiations draw to a close, but I reckon that’s completely wrong; they have the potential to decide the outcome and are playing the most impressively subtle nothing-to-see here game that’s ever been played in New Zealand politics. James Shaw is the master technician and his team have stayed tight and clear. This will soon become apparent…
    🙂

    • Mickey Boyle 18.1
      16 October 2017 at 3:29 pm

      ”And are playing the most impressively subtle nothing-to-see here game that’s ever been played in New Zealand politics”, haha I like your optimism and positive outlook, i’m extremely doubtfull you are correct however.

    • Voltaire 18.2
      16 October 2017 at 4:43 pm

      Is someone taking notes for a dissertation on this process ?

      • Incognito 18.2.1
        16 October 2017 at 9:14 pm

        Chris Trotter will be writing about in 20 years or so, from a political historian’s perspective 😉

  20. Voltaire 20
    16 October 2017 at 4:37 pm

    What could Bill offer Winston that would make him dither so long over a decision ?

    1. Deputy PM under Bill, with Bill retiring gracefully after a suitable period ?
    2. PM, with Bill as Deputy ?
    3. Knighthoods all around for ‘NZ First’ members in Cabinet ?
    4. Winston as Governor General ?
    5. Policy objectives (name them) .. ?

    You may wish to add to the list ..

    • AB 20.1
      16 October 2017 at 5:55 pm

      Move the capital to Whananaki (south side of course) and Bill English to claim (this time legitimately) weekly expenses of $105 for renting a 1 bedroom bach with outside loo. Because his real home is in Dipton, or Karori, or both.
      (But ah – the views over the estuary, the fishing, the nights full of moreporks and stars!)

    • cleangreen 20.2
      16 October 2017 at 6:29 pm

      Voltairie;

      “What could Bill offer Winston that would make him dither so long over a decision” ?

      Bullshit Bill could offer Winston his PM job, and sack the mouth (S Joyce) and Collins/Bennnet combo with joyce, as this is the only way he would go National again.

      Winston could keep Bullshit Bill on as a janitor for the toilet duty as a peace offering for the years English tried to stick knives in his back.

    • Incognito 20.3
      16 October 2017 at 9:19 pm

      Isn’t it obvious? Winston wants see Joyce’s evidence of Labour’s tax hole but the napkin Excel spreadsheet with Steven’s calculation has gone missing or MBIE has released it under the OIA but it is so heavily redacted that poor old Steven cannot reproduce his calculation, no matter how hard he tries 😉

  21. cleangreen 21
    16 October 2017 at 6:34 pm

    NEWS FLASH. 6;30PM 16/10/17

    NZF Board retires for the night, and will continue the talks again tommorrow again, so the end of the week is about the time we will see (maybe) a result.

    Greens were sweating, and very quiet today.

    So they are “playing the game” also I fear.

    • BM 21.1
      16 October 2017 at 6:38 pm

      What do you fear?

      The Greens haven’t rolled over and presented their bellies to King Winston?

      Maybe Moth wees Shaw has actually grown a pair? that’s a surprise I’d have never picked that in a million years.

  22. CHCOff 22
    16 October 2017 at 6:37 pm

    Not the brand, but the Green party, seriously risks a divorce from it’s 5% threshold if it plays the wrong hand, which would be a step back overall in the wider picture of NZ democracy, and thus would not be happy about seeing, so i guess they are in a state of highly charged deliberations with their part of the potential coalition Government process.

    • cleangreen 22.1
      16 October 2017 at 7:16 pm

      CHCOff – Agreed ,
      It is all about the big picture and what james Shaw always said “his party wants a change of Government” and he has stuck to (which I quietly admire, though I am not a green party supporter).

      So James has stuck to that policy even last night when questioned yet again for the 20th time it seems.

      I think Winston showed a new tolerence for Shaw when he said only days ago “that I have never had any issues with him as we have no bad words with each other”.

      Their relationaship may be finally ‘maturing’ and they do seem possibly to be working towards a coalition finally for all our good for our future.

      • WILD KATIPO 22.1.1
        16 October 2017 at 7:40 pm

        Well , they probably will get on very well , tbh – one is quiet and ‘ gracious’ and the other one is gregarious and ‘ volatile’ .

        • cleangreen 22.1.1.1
          16 October 2017 at 7:53 pm

          hehehe true that is.

          I should offer some valarian root capsules to Winston as I use this herb to settle my nerves.

          I met a New Jersey garage seller in Florida while recouping there in 1993 and he gave me 12 cases of 12 bottles totalling 144 bottles of the valerian root capsules and Iv’e taken them ever since because herbs have a very long shelf life and they still work.

          Winston needs a ‘calmative’ as he is a brilliant mind and politician too.

          Wild Katipo’s videos he posted of the labour 1984 to 1992 era showed Winston on his political rise then.

          A good watch both videos. 10 & 10.1.
          https://thestandard.org.nz/imf-higher-taxes-for-rich-will-cut-inequality-and-wont-hurt-growth/#comment-1400499

          • WILD KATIPO 22.1.1.1.1
            16 October 2017 at 8:00 pm

            Hmmm… am looking up Valerian right now… might zip out and get some V. tea… maybe the whole ding dong country should have cup of it…

  23. cleangreen 23
    16 October 2017 at 8:11 pm

    Hehehe It works great WK.

    I am 73 and after being chemically poisoned in 1992 my blood pressure rose and after taking valerian root I now keep it under control now and sometimes i use Niacin to ‘flush’ my system and it dialates my blood vessels and stops me getting another stroke again also.

    I have been also taking niacin since 1993 and now my son at 31 uses it just to speed up his metabalism to burn off excess fat while he exercises.

    So you can try one niacin cap 250mgs firstly and incease the amount when your system ‘tolerates’ it, as first week everyone gets a warm rush of ‘flushing’ as it feels good for some and others dont like it.
    Niacin is simply one of the B vitamins known as B3.

    Good luck. – let me know.

  24. Patricia Bremner 24
    17 October 2017 at 6:04 am

    Yes B3 works well. A friend had it prescribed to assist her side effects of a pacemaker and diabetes. She felt better within a day or two.

    • cleangreen 24.1
      17 October 2017 at 7:19 am

      There is a very large University Canadian study conducted over 12yrs on the effectiveness of using niacin (B3) for high blood pressure and related medical conditions, and has poved that there are no serious negative medical issues resulting from using niacin.

      I have been taking Niacin (B3) now for 23 yrs without any serious medical complications and have survived to reach 73.

      I had a serious stroke during a very stressful time in 2003, and took niacin during the secondary stage of the stoke progression, as I was in a very remote location (5 hours from a hospital) and the niacin (B3) assisted with the minimal affects of that stroke as a week later I was well on the way to recovery. – Niacin is very effective and not costly.

      Consult your medical professional if you are currently taking other medications is usually indicated.