UK Defense Secretary on Corbyn
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- Date published:
12:22 pm, May 28th, 2017 - 49 comments
Categories: conservative party, International, political parties, Politics, uk politics -
Tags: Michael Fallon, policy, terrorism, UK
Jaw dropping stuff.
There are two things worth picking up on from Fallon’s take on things, and only because I’ve heard them repeated by others.
Fallon asserts that foreign policy has nothing to do with terrorism because “Sweden”. I guess the logic runs that if Sweden is subjected to terrorist attacks and Sweden has not engaged in any military campaigns, then military campaigns can’t be a driver behind any process of radicalisation or ensuing terror attacks in the west. Something like that anyway.
The terror attack in Stockholm was carried out by Rakhmat Akilov, a rejected asylum seeker from Uzbekistan who was sympathetic to ISIS. That’s the same ISIS that has expanded into the chaos created by the west in Libya and Iraq and elsewhere. No connection to UK foreign policy whatsoever then. Also, in the reporting of the Stockholm attack, the Telegraph reported that –
European leaders expressed their solidarity over the attack, the first in Sweden since Taimour Abdulwahab al-Abdaly, an Iraqi-born Swede who was radicalised while living in Luton, detonated two bombs in central Stockholm in December 2010. (emphasis mine)
So again – I can’t see any connection, can you?
The other line being trotted out is a bit trickier because of that great friend of the politician – the ‘memory hole’. The line runs that the War on Terror was initiated after 9/11 and that the invasion of Iraq didn’t take place until 2003. The logic is of the fairly straight forward chicken and egg variety – terrorist attacks on ‘the west’ were taking place before any foreign policy guided by any over-arching ‘War on Terror’. Therefor current foreign policy has nothing to do with terrorist attacks in the west.
Of course, what’s ignored is that the Gulf War happened in 1990 and that the US had thousands of troops stationed in Saudi Arabia until 2003 when it withdrew the bulk of them. You may recall Osama Bin Laden – presumably echoing a general sentiment within Al Qaeda – was publicly antagonistic to the idea of non-Muslim foreign troops being stationed in Saudi Arabia.
9/11 did not happen in a vacuum and wasn’t a ‘one off’ either. There had been the attack on the Twin Towers in 1993. There had been the bombings of US Embassies in 1998. There was the attack on USS Cole in 2000. The blame for these attacks was placed at the feet of Al Qaeda, who had been involved in some level of conflict with the west since, well I’m guessing the wars in Yugoslavia in the the early 90’s if not before.
In short, resentment towards western foreign policy in the Middle East was already widespread and giving rise to terrorist acts before the 11th of September 2001. The War on Terror wasn’t some new policy direction. What it did was expand and deepen the broad approach already being pursued and that was already feeding into anti-western sentiments and that was already getting exploited by fanatics.
The Mr Fallon’s of this world want that to be over-looked, ignored and forgotten. Or maybe it’s more that the Mr Fallon’s of this world are just idiots who couldn’t join the dots in a kids numbered “dot to dot” book.
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- Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect
The Green Party is alarmed by the Government’s move to exclude a journalist from covering this week’s apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...2 weeks ago
- Without action, an apology will be empty air
For tomorrow’s apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference
Concerns about the tobacco industry’s ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Government’s decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...2 weeks ago
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The Climate Change Commission’s latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action. ...2 weeks ago
- Green MP’s Meme-ber’s Bill set to save the world
Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carter’s Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies
Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...2 weeks ago
- Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- NZ must pursue independent foreign policy
The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Winston Peters must apologise
The Deputy Prime Minister should apologise to the public servant he named and blamed for something they did not do, and for misusing the rules of Parliament. ...2 weeks ago
- Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements
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- Foreign Minister to visit Europe
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- Better support for victims of sexual violence
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- MSA pilot participant update
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- Attendance rates increase, again
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- Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea
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Tēnā koutou katoa – it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...2 days ago
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Tēnā koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...2 days ago
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- New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund
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- LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils
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- Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed
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- Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference
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- New diplomatic appointments
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- Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill
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- Youth Parliament 2025 announced
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- Police stats show promising change
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- Better coordination of anti-scam efforts
With the launch of Fraud Awareness Week, the Government is committing to new coordination efforts across industry and government to combat online scams, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Online financial scams are a growing problem for New Zealand. New data released today shows that Kiwis lost nearly ...4 days ago
- Minister to consider 7AA select committee report
Minister for Children Karen Chhour will consider the recommendations made by the Social Services and Community Committee in its report back to Parliament on the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill. “I want to thank the people who made submissions and those who appeared before the committee in ...4 days ago
- Defence Minister to attend ASEAN meeting
Defence Minister Judith Collins will this week attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Defence Ministers’ Meeting-Plus in Vientiane, Laos. “We need to take every opportunity to engage with our international partners, given the increasingly unstable geo-political situation,” Ms Collins says. “New Zealand has a long-standing commitment to this ...4 days ago
- Launching the White Ribbon Ride
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- Construction to begin on next stage of Papakura to Drury
Construction on the next stage of the SH1 Papakura to Drury project will begin early next month, with the contract for works awarded to Fulton Hogan, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. "SH1 Papakura to Drury is a key project that will drive economic growth and productivity, reduce congestion, and enable people ...6 days ago
- NZ signs trade deal with Costa Rica, Iceland and Switzerland
Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has signed a pioneering trade agreement that prioritises New Zealand’s sustainable exports at a ceremony during APEC in Peru today. “The Agreement on Trade and Sustainability (ACCTS), between Costa Rica, Iceland, and Switzerland was concluded in July of this year and opens up significant ...6 days ago
- Government and iwi work together on aquaculture
Five new Aquaculture Settlement Areas will help ensure Ngāi Tahu shares in the opportunities aquaculture offers for Southland’s economy, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. “The Aquaculture Settlement Areas (ASAs) I’m announcing today set aside space so the Crown and Ngāi Tahu can assess their potential for aquaculture development. ...7 days ago
- Government launches review to ensure electricity market is fit-for-purpose
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- Speech to Social Investment Hui: Jack and his whānau need our help
Kia ora koutou katoa. Nau mai, haere mai, piki mai. Ki te mihi atu ahau, ki te manwhenua nei, Te Atiawa, Ngāti toa rangatira, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Thank you, Andy, for your introduction. Let me acknowledge you as the new Chief Executive of the Social Investment ...7 days ago
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- Proposals to modernise conservation released
Toitū te taiao – Our environment endures The Government is consulting on proposals to modernise New Zealand’s conservation management system, aiming to protect relevant natural areas while supporting sustainable growth in tourism and regional economies, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. “Today, the Department of Conservation – Te Papa Atawhai is ...1 week ago
- Knowing superstitions aren’t real doesn’t stop us behaving superstitiously – why?
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The coalition has "absolutely no intention of listening to the evidence that comes out of their experiment", Labour MP says. ...3 hours ago - Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate
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Labour claims Government is ‘cherry-picking’ smoking trends data to hide decade-first increase in daily smokers The post Smoke and mirrors in tobacco debate appeared first on Newsroom. ...3 hours ago
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will read this after lunch, but super lol that cat photo. Perfect.
ME resentment of ‘Western’ foreign policy towards the ME probably started up at around the time of the First Crusades. Now, that resentment probably would have declined and vanished by now except that the foreign policy that produced it hasn’t changed. It’s still about grabbing ME resources for the West by any means.
It’s the former. They know damn well that it’s their policies that are the problem but their policies are making them rich.
My (first) reaction is that Michael Fallon wants to kill two birds with one stone and he, or the PR honchos rather, saw an opportunity; timing is everything, in war and in politics.
Saw it, then tripped over themselves, gave away their position, and were slaughtered before they could get up.
Well Bill. Jaw-dropping stuff indeed! What a good polite well informed interviewer. But what a blatantly arrogant devious interviewee is Fallon.
“you can’t talk to people like that”
(Fallon talking about terrorists while basically refusing to understand what the interviewer is talking about)
edit, Fallon used the word terrorist not people, but it’s still a projection.
Since Jeremy Corban’s claim that the Manchester atrocity is linked to foreign policy there has been a plethora of Tory bombast decrying such a claim. But JC is in very good company. Tune in to Friday’s editions of the BBC’s Question Time and listen to David Davis squirm as the audience derides his comments. I think that the weeping sore of the plight of the indigenous people of Palestine and Western Europe and the US’s unwillingness to bring justice for those imprisoned people might have more than a little not do with the awful current state of affairs.
Incidentally, wouldn’t it be brilliant if there was a place, somewhere, where beside the expressions of grief for the Manchester victims one could place similar messages for the innocent men, women and children who are the “collateral damage” of the wars in Syria, Iraq, Yemen and similar places.
And Swedish arms exports are humanitarian, too.
/
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Swedens-humanitarian-arms-sales-to-the-Middle-East-397983
And Sweden involvement in Libya
12 April 2011
Eight Swedish SAAB JAS 39 Gripen fighter aircraft joined the NATO operation against Libyan government forces last week.
Based in Sicily and backed up with a transport aircraft and 130 support staff, it is the Swedish Air Force’s first airborne combat operation since 1963
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2011/04/scan-a12.html
Fallon seems have a Trumpian level memory fade
These interviews (this and the one on Corbyn, or any political interview from the BBC in fact) really ram home the lesson of how servile our media (for the most part) are to government ministers.
That one above was worth watching just for that.
One Anonymous Bloke: “….how servile our media (for the most part) are to government ministers.”
Aren’t they just! On RNZ, Kim Hill is one of the very few who can be relied upon to hold pollies’ feet to the fire in an interview. With regard to the two currently warming the “Morning Report” seats, they don’t do interviews like that one above . Not that I’ve ever heard, in any event.
I saw this interview yesterday on one of the online UK news outlets. Didn’t know who the interviewee was, but assumed ‘they’ had dragged up the most ignorant, thickest Tory MP they could find. Am flabbergasted to learn he was the British Defence minister. God help bloody Britain!
Btw, the first invasion of Iraq began (if I remember correctly) on the 17 January 1991. I will never forget that date nor the preceding few months but that ‘s another story involving an American, a NZ Defence Service base, a civilian working on that base (me) and a former Defence minister. Intrigued? Well, one day I hope I can tell the story.
Almost as intriguing as the person who told me a few days ago the ‘real’ reason Key resigned. 🙂
Very intriguing indeed… I know it’s off-topic but I’ve had two independent sources give me the same “real” reason for John Key’s resignation. And based on who they were with the connections they have, I am inclined to think they were closer than any of the other reasons I heard. The subsequent media silence following his departure has amplified their assertions for me. One day I hope I can tell that story as well… 🙂
I wanna know the “real” reason now.
If you can’t say so then can you say if it was personal? If you don’t answer then I’ll take it as a “yes”. 😉
Interviews like these only achieve to further erode people’s trust in politicians and the government and thus undermine democracy. It is people like these who do untold damage to our society and the little fabric that keeps it hanging together. IMO it is but another variation on the theme banality of evil.
Do you find the questions troubling or the fact that someone asked them? Or was it the defence minister being exposed as a stupid liar?
I took it to be that the UK Defence Secretary’s appalling distruth is what undermines democracy and is the variation of banality of evil.
It is important to have this as clear as possible – it could also happen in NZ – so please let me explain myself better.
Fallon honestly believes that his and previous Governments is doing the right things and winning (!) the war on terror. He gave Iran and Iraq as examples were things now have improved, according to him. This might be correct but depends on what he was comparing it to and he never mentioned the cost moneywise and especially not in the number of lives lost and wrecked, that of the untold suffering.
Because Sir Michael Fallon, the UK Defence Secretary, shows this behaviour I’d expect a large number of people to swallow this hook, line & sinker. And so the cycle repeats and perpetuates and the acts of evil will continue. The point is that neither Fallon not his followers, for want of a better word, appear to demonstrate critical thinking, sound judgement, and (self-)reflection without which it inevitably and ultimately leads to a rejection of responsibility for their actions and consequences thereof. Just to make the point, Corbyn does not seem to suffer from the same cognitive deficiencies.
That’s a great description. I was just sitting there watching thinking ok, so it’s not just this shit in NZ. I could almost see the Crosby Textor puppetry hand behind Fallon’s back.
I agree with you on the seriousness of this. If it weren’t for the interviewer I would have found it much scarier.
Hmm, Crosby Textor? I was more thinking (in moments) that he was channeling John Clarke to be honest.
So true!
I apologise for my comment being ambiguous. The interview was great and the interviewer, Krishnan Guru-Murthy, was superb in his preparation, style & conduct, and execution of the interview. The interviewee, Sir Michael Fallon, was a disaster; he was emotionless and dogmatically droning as if controlled. He was not even pretending; he really believed what he was saying with unwavering confidence and certainty.
Whether Fallon was “exposed as a stupid liar” depends very much on the perspective and confirmation bias of the individual viewer I reckon.
Edit: I had not seen weka’s comment.
Thanks for the clarification.
perspective and confirmation bias of the individual viewer
…is probably one of the main reasons evil is so banal in the first place: a ready supply of parrots.
When Corbyn is the subject of a Tory attack they are completely woeful.
Of course these attacks are the result of Britain’s involvement in foreign muslim nations.
This U.K election campaign is showing how incompetent and out of touch the Conservative government really is.
Targeting Corbyn won’t change that.
Not woeful…wonderful!
This one exposes Corbyn as the dangerous clown that he is.
https://order-order.com/2017/05/27/corbyn-ira-attack-ad-hits-1-million-views/
No still woeful !
The conservatives are the real clowns.
https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/27/defence-secretary-left-red-faced-falling-head-first-trap-national-tv-video/
How is that an attack? Keep focused.
The use of the word “excuses”: the forgettable Tory mouthpiece is pretending that understanding something is the same as excusing it.
So Boris Johnson is now being accused of making excuses for terrorism. It’s tempting to say that Boris Johnson is himself an excuse for terrorism, but that wouldn’t be very nice.
In this way, policies to reduce recidivism are twisted by wingnuts into “cuddling up to crims”. The people holding the shitty end of the free market stick become “bludgers”.
All these little rhetorical tricks are designed to do one thing and one thing alone: divert from and disguise wingnut venality and self-interest.
Well said OAB
Mosa’s post is not an attack ad. You’re confused, and so is he.
Yawn. Fuck off with your bullshit pwned arguments. You asked why it is an attack. You got an answer. Now fuck off.
You have no idea what an attack ad is.
I know exactly what one is, bore. However, you asked “How is that an attack?” You got an answer. Choke on it.
the only thing merdecai chokes on is saying “please”. Everything else is overcome by cognitive dissonance.
“Merdecai” 😆 very clever.
No, there was no answer, just more dishonesty.
🙄
typo, honest 😉
Attack argument aside i was pointing out that the current conservative government are the real ” clowns ” here to use your term when they cant even stay on the same page when it comes to terrorism.
They are more interested in attacking Corbyn than addressing the cause.
Oh I’d say they’re targeting the ‘low hanging fruit’. Corbyn is a fool and a terrorist hugger, and so he is the low hanging fruit.
^^^ Oh look, here’s an illustration of a wingnut attempting to divert from his own venality and self-interest.
You still have no idea what an attack ad is!
And Corbyn is a dangerous fool, who has supported terror for decades.
Yes, you probably believe that 🙄
It’s not up for debate. Corbyn’s own comments show he supports terrorists. Assuming you can read (and that’s a stretch) here’s morehttps://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/shouldnt-vote-jeremy-corbyn/.
I love this interview. Actually I hate it. Love that it exposes what it exposes and hate that that needs exposing in the first place.
“…Al Qaeda, who had been involved in some level of conflict with the west since, well I’m guessing the wars in Yugoslavia in the the early 90’s if not before.”
Al Qaeda was born out of the mujahideen in Afghanistan, who were financed by the CIA to fight the Soviet forces sent to Afghanistan in December 1979, in response to requests for assistance from the Afghan government of the time. Neither Kosygin nor Brezhnev wanted to send troops – correctly assessing that it would make matters worse, and that the Afghans themselves would be infuriated by it – but in 1979, Taraki succeeded in negotiating some Soviet support. We all know how that ended….
We have here a very good book on the Soviet entanglement in Afghanistan. It was written by a US journalist, if I remember rightly. Its name escapes me for the moment, but I’ll go dig it out tomorrow. The political situation was complex, and the author did a good job of explaining it, as I recall.
Sweden is like Britain in that they are both big exporters of arms. Britain is now the second biggest exporter of arms in the the world.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-is-now-the-second-biggest-arms-dealer-in-the-world-a7225351.html
Here’s a bit about Sweden arms exports
http://www.businessinsider.com/swedens-dirty-secret-they-arm-dictators-2014-5?IR=T