United Kingdom election watch

Written By: - Date published: 8:38 am, July 5th, 2024 - 97 comments
Categories: elections, International, uk politics - Tags:

Update: Jeremy Corbyn has been re-elected in his electorate as an independent candidate.

A generic post to cover the United Kingdom election results as they come in.

Looks like the Conservatives will be hammered. One can only hope …

And for those nostalgic for 1997 remember this?

Update: exit polls suggest Labour 410 seats, 131 Conservative, 61 Lib Dem, 13 Reform, 10 SNP …

Update: Larry the Cat (resident of 10 Downing Street) is very poetic …

And now, the end is near

The Tories face the final curtain

The exit poll made it clear

Conservative defeat is now certain

They’ve pinched a bucket-full

Left holes on each and every highway

And less, much less than this

They made their lies pay

Good days, they’ve had so few

But then again, too few to mention

Ignored what they had to do

Shirked responsibility without exception

They fought fake culture wars

Flogged infrastructure off to Huawei

And less, much less than this

They made their lies pay

Yes, there were times,

I’m sure you’ll mourn

Like the MP caught with tractor porn

After four leaders, left with just Rishi

Bets on the election all very fishy

You voted Labour, I’ve got a new neighbour

Time to do things my way!

97 comments on “United Kingdom election watch ”

    • ghostwhowalksnz 1.1
      5 July 2024 at 9:32 am

      Hardly 'historic' for Labour

      Its predicted that Starmer will have about the same number of seats that Blair won (418) in 1997.

      of course what is historic is the low for conservatives – for obvious reasons. The SNP seats in Westminster will also collapse

      Reply
    • Bearded Git 1.2
      5 July 2024 at 11:05 am

      John Curtice, the famous expert on UK elections, says that Starmer's Labour is heading for a vote of less than Jeremy Corbyn's 40 per cent in 2017.

      Reply
      • Ad 1.2.1
        5 July 2024 at 12:39 pm

        BG, if you're still holding a torch for Corbyn, douse it in your pint.

        This victory is for the Labour Party.

        Reply
        • tWig 1.2.1.1
          5 July 2024 at 6:05 pm

          Summarised from The Guardian

          With 545 constituency results declared:

          • Labour has won 372 seats with 35.6%
          • Conservatives 90 seats and 22.8%.
          • LibDems have 50 seats with 11.2%
          • Reform UK have 14.5% and 4 seats.
          • The SNP has 5 seats, Plaid Cymru is on 4 In NI Sinn Féin has 7 and DUP 4.
          • The Green party has 6.8% of votes and 2 seats.

          "Compass, the leftwing group committed to pluralism, has said tonight’s election results show the first past the post voting system is not fit for purpose. [Compare LibDems 50 seats at 11% of vote, vs Greens get 2 with 6.8%.].

          "Lawson also said the early results pointed to a Gallagher index score (a measure of disproportionality) of around 23, which he said suggested “this election could be the most disproportionate we have ever seen”."

          Worthwhile looking at global Gallagher Index scores. NZ sits high in our closeness of actual vote to seats, ie a good proportional voting system. Oz, with its strange ranked voting, looks worse off in reflecting Parliament seats with electors' choices.

          Of course, Reform would bite off the biggest chunk in minority parties, essentially splitting the right of centre vote.

          Reply
          • Ad 1.2.1.1.1
            5 July 2024 at 9:21 pm

            Some other system, couldawaoulda, somethingsomething.

            MMP in this election would return the most rightwing government that UK has ever had.

            Get a grip.

            Reply
            • tWig 1.2.1.1.1.1
              5 July 2024 at 9:32 pm

              Nope, disagree. Lib Dems would be well out of it, after their previous shaming coalition with what was then at least a Tory party capable of administering the country. The Tory lineup now has zero administrative talent, plus I bet LibDems would have had to promise no Coalition with the Right to get significant votes, as their support comes from disgruntled centrists.

              And a 2-vote electorate/party system would generate a different voting profile to that seen with UK FPTP.

              Reply
              • tWig …
                6 July 2024 at 10:38 am

                Also tactical support by Labour voters of LibDems wouldn't have happened. I am guessing perhaps 10-20% of LD vote might fall into this category.

                Reply
          • SPC 1.2.1.1.2
            6 July 2024 at 8:55 pm

            Tactical voting is not required where there is preferential voting.

            A fairer system can also be realised by SM.

            500 electorates. 125 SM.

            SM Result

            43 Labour, Tory 30, Reform 18, LD 15 Green 9.

            Labour would have over 300-340 (depending on preferential voting changes) of the 500 electorates. Thus still have an overall majority.

            The UK should adopt a moderate reform along those lines.

            Reply
            • tWig 1.2.1.1.2.1
              7 July 2024 at 10:36 am

              I think peferential voting is a crap system, less reflective of people's primary choice than ours. NZers can vote for both their local representative AND party preference, rewarding those MPs who care for their electorate, while supporting political positions they prefer.

              In PV, 60% of the vote can capture 80% of seats, as happened in Queensland. FPTP and PV. Neither FPTP or PV promote bipartisan legislative approaches, nor provide societal variety reflected in Parliament.

              That's why the Gallagher Index shows Oz less reflective of electoral preference than our system.

              Why did SPC not suggest an NZ system to Blair?

              Reply
              • SPC …
                7 July 2024 at 1:21 pm

                Preferential voting is not an electoral system of itself, it is the best option in the voting for single member electorate seats. It allows a challenge to a two party status quo in the winning of such, without tactical voting. And for the us and the UK, that is an improvement.

                For mine, they should start there.

                Though I would add SM to ensure small parties have a presence in their parliament.

                The focus of Blair back then was to reform the House of Lords as legislation was being blocked by an un-elected Tory majority.

                Reply
      • ghostwhowalksnz 1.2.2
        5 July 2024 at 1:23 pm

        What about Corbyns 32% in 2019

        Yes Corbyn got 40% in 2017 but the May-bot got 42%

        In those years the SNP in Scotland took a big swag of previous Labour seats and votes

        Reply
  2. Macro 2
    5 July 2024 at 9:58 am

    The Guardian's words, not mine. Made comment as a link to the current up dates to the exit polls.

    Reply
  3. ghostwhowalksnz 3
    5 July 2024 at 1:30 pm

    The Tories have already announced the dissolution honours nominated by the leaders of all the parties

    This is just the Peerages as there are knights and dames separately

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dissolution-peerages-2024

    Reply
  4. joe90 4
    5 July 2024 at 1:49 pm

    lol

    .

    @JimmySecUK

    Ex-employee of the Russian government, George Galloway, is projected to lose his Rochdale seat to Labour, according to the exit-poll.

    https://x.com/JimmySecUK/status/1808981389125300533

    edit:

    gone

    George Galloway has lost his seat 126 days after pulling off a surprise by-election victory in Rochdale.

    The Worker’s Party of Britain incumbent, defending a majority of more than 6,000 votes, was defeated by Labour’s Paul Waugh.

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1917543/george-galloway-rochdale-general-election-results-labour

    Reply
  6. Sanctuary 6
    5 July 2024 at 4:10 pm

    Posie Parker did well lol

    Reply
    • tWig 7.1
      5 July 2024 at 7:39 pm

      The Guardian discusses the significant influence of a pro-Palestinian vote in response to Starmer's early Gaza conflict position, where he defended Israel's cutting of food and water supplies to Gaza.

      Labour lost 3 seats to pro-Gaza independent candidates standing at short notice, and cut their majority significantly in others.

      Reply
    • Ad 7.2
      5 July 2024 at 9:18 pm

      As spent as Galloway. Well time Corbyn retired. Nothing left for him to do now.

      Reply
      • tWig 7.2.1
        5 July 2024 at 9:59 pm

        Not spent, rather planning to be Starmer's conscience:

        "Within minutes of his victory speech, Mr Corbyn made a passing attempt at generosity when asked about Sir Keir’s leadership. “He will become prime minister,” he said, sounding rather lukewarm about the prospect, before describing the manifesto of his former party as “thin, to put it mildly”.

        Warming up, he decried the “completely undemocratic diktat from the Labour Party” that he could no longer stand for them, and promised: “I will be there holding the government to account.” “I will be one of those people who, if the government does good things, I will back them,” he told reporters. “If it fails… then I will be there speaking up."

        from telegraph

        Reply
        • Ad 7.2.1.1
          6 July 2024 at 3:24 pm

          If those pro-Gaza MPs don't have the sense to see what a fully sectarian electorate looks like, Sinn Feinn can give them a lesson on its consequences.

          Labour's Starmer had the tactical nous to leave those toxic fools and go after a much broader set of seats. And the victory came in part from that smart choice.

          Reply
          • tWig 7.2.1.1.1
            6 July 2024 at 5:40 pm

            If those mostly Muslim electorates saw Starmer as not only pro-Israel, but from his own words, supportive initially of Israel's illegal and geonocidal blockade of water and food supply to millions of Gazans, then good on them for abandoning him.

            Starmer also kicked out local candidates who made fairly innocuous pro-Palestinian statements pre-election.

            Anti-Starmer rather than anti-Labour vote. Wait and see Starmer expose his authorarian streak in office.

            Reply
            • Ad 7.2.1.1.1.1
              6 July 2024 at 6:25 pm

              A powerful left government enacting strong reform is exactly what the UK needs. No complaints with that.

              Reply
              • tWig …
                7 July 2024 at 12:47 am

                A good government is not a strong figurehead, it's a strong team. If Starmer used 'we' more often, hadn't completely reneged on the pledges to Party members he used to secure support, and hadn't made frankly authoritarian purges of excellent Labour candidates on the flimsiest of excuses, he would not have lost my respect.

                But, like Corbyn says in his statement, if Starmer can run an effective team by being only a 30% bastard, he can claw some of my respect back too.

                I do realise I have strong opinions about the politics in a country I have no vested interest in, but it's a bit of a spectator sport from this side of the world. And we can all be a bit clearer-eyed because it's not our home they're fucking up.

                Reply
          • ghostwhowalksnz 7.2.1.1.2
            6 July 2024 at 6:13 pm

            Europe had overtly sectarian parties after WW2 till the late 70s. Especially where the catholic- protestant were large minorities.

            I seem to remember that Belgium had separate leftwing catholic and protestant parties. Nowadays their politics mostly split on language lines and separatism ( except the greens !)

            Reply
  8. Maurice 8
    5 July 2024 at 4:56 pm

    Very low voter turn out of near 60% – of that Labour got roughly 40%

    That calculates to 60% x .40 = 24% of the voting public actually voted for Labour. 40% did not vote at all so nearly double the numbers said a Pox on ALL your houses and voted for nobody at all!

    It is only the First Past the Post electoral system which gave Labout their "majority" of the seats in Parliament.

    Labour must deliver to that "silent" 40% or risk a backlash next time around.

    Reply
    • tc 8.1
      5 July 2024 at 5:05 pm

      Sir rodney already delivered for his major backers (the establishment) by getting elected for continuity purposes.

      Reply
    • Ad 8.2
      5 July 2024 at 9:16 pm

      They really don't.

      Didn't vote, unlikely to vote, don't complain.

      Reply
    • ghostwhowalksnz 8.3
      6 July 2024 at 8:31 am

      "24% of the voting public actually voted for Labour"

      In totalitarian countries it was 99% turnout.

      Think of it like opinion polls, where a small number is statistically representative of all the electorate

      24% is a massive opinion poll that is still representative of the 'voting public'

      Reply
  9. tWig 9
    5 July 2024 at 6:52 pm

    Gone by lunchtime: smug parvenu and Johnson-lover, Rees-Mogg ; anti-migrant Shapps; Penny Mordant, sword-carrier and leadership hopeful; lazy Therese Coffey, including eight current Ministers in all. Attack-dog Badenoch stays, though.

    Reply
    • tWig 9.1
      5 July 2024 at 7:22 pm

      And at 07.55 of Guardian live coverage fantasist Truss's moment of loss captured on film.

      Reply
      • joe90 9.1.1
        5 July 2024 at 9:20 pm

        the only election coverage you need…

        Reply
        • tWig 9.1.1.1
          6 July 2024 at 10:22 am

          Euro News brief analysis of the fragility of Labour's win.

          Red Wall seats lost in 2019 to Tories did not go back to Labour, but over to Farage. The vote split between Tories and Reform let Labour sneak in.

          Reply
          • joe90 9.1.1.1.1
            6 July 2024 at 11:01 am

            “It is a shocking result, and I can't recall anything so similar in British history that one party does so well in terms of seats having not won very many votes,” Charles Grant, director of the Centre for European Reform, told Euronews.

            Labour's majority is built on very shallow foundations as a result, according to Grant and “can easily be washed away by the next storm that hits the UK”.

            Grant's corporate masters will be delighted if and when Labour's majority is washed away by the next storm that hits the UK.

            Reply
          • Graeme 9.1.1.1.2
            6 July 2024 at 11:58 am

            A 'feature' of First Past the Post is that it enables a fuck you vote within one of the major groups. A splinter party emerges that draws support from the main party on that side, effectively killing the main party. Shades of the Bob Jones party here in 1984.

            Reply
            • Belladonna 9.1.1.1.2.1
              6 July 2024 at 12:28 pm

              I would argue that it's an even bigger 'feature' of MMP.
              You still have the opportunity for an entirely wasted vote (Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party) – parties which don't have a sniff of getting over the 5% threshold.
              But, more importantly, you can protest vote for minor parties which are likely to achieve this goal (either through an electorate seat, or wider-spread popular appeal).
              There is a perspective which regards the Greens as the left-wing splinter of Labour; and ACT as the right-wing splinter of National.

              In either situation, it's very rare (although not unheard of) for the splinter party to 'kill' the main party. Although it did happen in NZ in the early part of the 20th century – with the old Liberal party support being splintered between the up-and-coming Reform (later National) and Labour parties.

              Reply
              • SPC …
                6 July 2024 at 6:22 pm

                Winston Churchill's father said the Tories should not fear the extension of the franchise, the Whigs/Liberals should.

                Reply
  10. SPC 10
    5 July 2024 at 7:02 pm

    According to the map, it would take an orange and red coalition to beat blue.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election/2024/uk/results

    Reply
  11. Darien Fenton 11
    5 July 2024 at 7:21 pm

    Takeaways from UK election. Firstly great victory for Labour but interesting they only got 35% of the vote. Glad Reform only got 4 seats – Greens with 4 most seats ever, Lib Dems big increase ; glad Jezza gets another five years, but just note he is older than me (given we've been talking a lot about age lately in politics). Would be interesting to see how this all translates in an MMP kind of system. Labour now has to deliver ; that is where the real hard work begins.

    Reply
    • SPC 11.1
      5 July 2024 at 7:49 pm

      34%.

      https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4nglegege1o

      A wise PM would have co-operation agreements with the LD and Green parties – together over 50% of the vote.

      Reply
      • ghostwhowalksnz 11.1.1
        6 July 2024 at 1:45 pm

        Thats not what the contest was about.

        The name of the game was to win a majority of the seats in the Commons

        No chance of cooperation agreement with LD or Greens when Labour has over 400 seats out of 650.

        Cant compare too much with previous elections as the boundaries were changed before this election and the previous boundary changes were based on reviews nearly 20 years back

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Periodic_Review_of_Westminster_constituencies

        An often ignore factor in NZs electorate seats is boundaries (here are done after every census) and some places have significant changes

        Reply
        • SPC 11.1.1.1
          6 July 2024 at 5:46 pm

          The purpose of co-operation agreements with LD and Green would be to

          1affirm mandate

          2..position for a coalition in 2029, should this be necessary.

          A Conservative-LD coalition being an alternative in 2029, if they do not.

          They might not do it, but it is the right option.

          The first to imply continuance of the institutions of government (abandoned by the Conservative Party) and the second necessary progress.

          This allows Labour to be itself, as per sustaining government capability and public delivery – UND of HR (1948) – education, health, housing and adequate income.

          PS. I advised Blair (1998) to move to preferential voting electorates and have SM (125 seats awarded at 0.8% of a party list vote). Jenkins agreed, Blair did not and one went to the European Parliament.

          Reply
          • Ad 11.1.1.1.1
            6 July 2024 at 6:28 pm

            Neither necessary nor useful to Labour.

            Starmer as a senior civil servant knows perfectly well how to strengthen institutions of state.

            Reply
            • SPC 11.1.1.1.1.1
              6 July 2024 at 6:48 pm

              Not really a civil service bureaucrat, he was an adviser to a policing board in NI and was appointed Director of Public Prosecutions – an outsider brought in because of his legal background in the human rights aspects of law.

              If anything it is that experience, coming in as an outsider, that might help in the strengthening of the capability of government to deliver.

              But the continuance of the institutions of the realm is broader than that. And here it is not Labour doing what is is useful to Labour … . This includes being reliable and responsible in government in exercise of executive power. And partnership agreements would serve to secure mandate.

              Reply
    • Belladonna 11.2
      5 July 2024 at 8:15 pm

      So Greens and Reform both have 4 seats each.
      Not exactly a significant minority in parliament (yes, I know the FPP environment makes this harder in the UK).
      But you can hardly trumpet the GP result as the 'most seats ever' and ignore that the same applies to the Reform party.

      Reply
  12. SPC 12
    5 July 2024 at 8:08 pm

    At 33.8%, 1.6% more than Labour under Corbyn.

    Reply
    • Mike the Lefty 12.1
      5 July 2024 at 8:19 pm

      Yeah a low turnout definitely.

      I take from this, and the election of several independents across the country that Britains are getting just a bit tired of the same old party politics.

      Reply
      • Belladonna 12.1.1
        5 July 2024 at 8:26 pm

        There are (currently) 5 Independent MPs.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor-party_and_independent_MPs_elected_in_the_United_Kingdom

        Looking at the profiles, most, if not all, are protest votes against the Labour policy on Israel/Gaza. So, one issue candidates. The only real exception is Corbyn.

        Reply
      • SPC 12.1.2
        5 July 2024 at 8:32 pm

        33.8% of 60% means less people voted for Labour than in 2019.

        21.67% in 2019 and 20.28% in 2024.

        Reply
        • Dennis Frank 12.1.2.1
          6 July 2024 at 7:52 am

          Terrific outcome for causal relations in politics: massive landslide produced by a fifth of the electorate – with the tacit support of a significantly large bunch of rightist splitters. X+Y=Z. Also interesting that 6 parties have been featured in the framing of the outcome, so there's a hexad forming UK politics just like here in Aotearoa where we have 3 rightist parties in govt & 3 leftist in opposition.

          That fifth that seems primary cause of the landslide points to a pentad of course, and 5 is inherently creative, as in the opposable thumb of primate evolutionary fame, so let's hope that this 5 produces creative ethos in British Labour…

          Reply
          • SPC 12.1.2.1.1
            6 July 2024 at 5:31 pm

            Reform will be outlier like the AFD in Germany and the Le Pen party in France (unless they win against the coalition arrayed against them).

            Reply
      • ghostwhowalksnz 12.1.3
        6 July 2024 at 8:34 am

        Low turnout often the case when the result was long a foregone conclusion

        Reply
  13. Mike the Lefty 13
    5 July 2024 at 8:16 pm

    I have to admit that I watched live the declaration for Islington North and I shouted in glee and pummelled the air when Jeremy Corbyn was declared the winner!

    You can't keep a good man down.

    But a bit sobered down by the election of Britain's answer to Winston Peters – Farage.

    I thought the election was for humans, not humanoids.

    Reply
  14. Ad 14
    5 July 2024 at 9:23 pm

    Tonight Wanaka's old left made honourable work of the boutique breweries in celebration of the finest win for Labour since 1993.

    Shoutout to the team.

    Reply
  15. Rolling-on-Gravel 15
    6 July 2024 at 12:35 am

    Thank goodness Corbyn won Islington North!!!!

    That was the only thing I cared about, tbh.

    Reply
    • Rolling-on-Gravel 15.1
      6 July 2024 at 12:39 am

      I genuinely admire him, Diane Abbott, John McDonnell and all their comrades – I can only hope UK politics improves with more people like them in time.

      Reply
      • Rolling-on-Gravel 15.1.1
        6 July 2024 at 12:44 am

        More politicians should be more like them around the world.

        In a way —

        Corbyn should be walking around the world by now.

        Reply
  16. Darien Fenton 16
    6 July 2024 at 8:32 am

    I am celebrating Angela Rayner as Deputy PM. Genuine working class, left school early, worked as a caregiver, trade unionist. Younger woman. Now compare that to NZ DPMs. If only they were like her.

    Reply
    • bwaghorn 16.1
      6 July 2024 at 10:30 am

      paula bennet springs to mind

      Reply
      • tWig 16.1.1
        6 July 2024 at 10:47 am

        I think she is a sleeper leftie, building power within Labour. Unlike NZ, her position is voted for by Labour members, not chosen by Starmer. I wonder whether part of his leftwing purge of the party was to weaken her position in making a challenge to him.

        And, unlike Bennett, she has Housing and Levelling up, financially important infrastructure portfolios.

        Here's a New Statesman article last year on Keir and Angela’s backstory.

        Reply
        • Darien Fenton 16.1.1.1
          6 July 2024 at 10:58 am

          Imagine having a Deputy PM who was active in a union? Instead what we have here is an old fart who is a career politician since 1978 and a young fart who is famous for twerking and being a jerk. But btw aren’t Winston and Seymour chosen by their party?

          Reply
          • Belladonna 16.1.1.1.1
            6 July 2024 at 12:01 pm

            But btw aren’t Winston and Seymour chosen by their party?

            Chosen by the NZ electorate….

            It's difficult to argue that either ACT or NZF electors weren't making their vote based on the party leader.

            Reply
      • Darien Fenton 16.1.2
        6 July 2024 at 10:49 am

        Paula Bennett never set her foot anywhere near a union. You need to inform yourself better.

        Reply
        • ghostwhowalksnz 16.1.2.1
          6 July 2024 at 11:31 am

          Student union…. but hardly a union of employees

          Reply
          • Belladonna 16.1.2.1.1
            6 July 2024 at 12:05 pm

            Just like Grant Robertson, Jacinda Ardern & Chris Hipkins.

            It's actually harder to find a Leftie NZ politician that has been involved in trade unions, than one who hasn't.

            Reply
            • ghostwhowalksnz 16.1.2.1.1.1
              6 July 2024 at 1:27 pm

              Trade unions are only a small portion of the workforce now , and even less in 'trade' unions . Mostly more professional class such as teachers , nurses , government workers

              Reply
            • ghostwhowalksnz 16.1.2.1.1.2
              6 July 2024 at 1:52 pm

              How many now in national were previously 'working farmers' …apart from Barbara Kuriger..LOL.

              Reply
            • Darien Fenton 16.1.2.1.1.3
              6 July 2024 at 4:22 pm

              FYI most of the Labour MPs were or are members of unions, Mostly before but some joined when they became MPs. Jacinda joined SFWU when she was an intern in HC 's office and union liaison. She went to work as a volunteer for the SEIU in the US. I gave her a reference. Those who worked in Parliamentary Service roles all joined SFWU.

              Reply
    • alwyn 16.2
      6 July 2024 at 12:05 pm

      "Genuine working class, left school early, worked as a caregiver, trade unionist".

      Perhaps we could compare her to the leading figures in the New Zealand Labour Party. The last one that was in this vein was Mike Moore. Since his time they have all been University Graduates who have very little experience outside University or working in an MP's or Minister's office. Andrew Little is the only leader I can think of in the last 30 years who had anything to do with a real, ie non-Student, Union.

      Were there any others?

      Reply
      • ghostwhowalksnz 16.2.1
        6 July 2024 at 1:23 pm

        "little experience outside University or working in an MP's or Minister's office. "

        Thats a lot of nationals top leadership too.

        Willis for instance completed a BA, followed by Dip in Journalism, but turned down a job offer for a publication ( her mother was a Gallery journalist at the time) to work full time for the national party in parliament and did about 10-12 years at that job including writing the daily spin for John Key. There was a 'sabbatical' when she left the party cadres to be employed by Todd Muller ( later an MP himself) in Fonterra’s Corporate affairs – essentially lobbying ministers she knew in her previous work. When her mentor john Key resigned she quite Fonterra the same week to come back to Wellington to get on the Party list for the next election.

        Similar path for Chris Bishop , 1st class honours in law- could have worked in any top law firm- but immediately went to work for the National party as a cadre. ( father as well was Gallery journalist) Sabbatical for a tobacco company as a lobbyist then getting onto list for parliament

        Reply
        • Darien Fenton 16.2.1.1
          6 July 2024 at 4:55 pm

          I doubt any of them were members of a union,

          Reply
          • ghostwhowalksnz 16.2.1.1.1
            6 July 2024 at 5:31 pm

            Yes . But they were party cadres straight out of university that Alwyn seems to despise…except when they are Nats

            I wont even go into the ultimate party cadre/policy analyst Seymour

            Reply
            • alwyn 16.2.1.1.1.1
              6 July 2024 at 8:32 pm

              "…except when they are Nats".

              Your imagination is working overtime. I think that people who have done nothing else in life except in political activities really shouldn't be MPs. That is for every party.

              Those people work for the benefit of their own career, not for the benefit of the country. After all, they don't have any options to fall back on.

              That is for every party, not just those on the left. The difference is that in New Zealand it is much more common on the left for them to get into the highest level in their party. Key and Luxon at least had successful careers before they entered Parliament. What did Ardern and Hipkins do?

              Reply
              • KJT …
                7 July 2024 at 7:20 am

                Key and Luxon at least had successful careers before they entered Parliament.

                LOL. That is an arguement against letting people into power that have had "successful careers before entering Parliament".

                As both of these examples show, their only skill is competently "feathering their own nests" and that of their mates.

                Showing why we should never put corporate brown nosers in positions of power. They do enough damage in the private sector!

                Reply
                • ghostwhowalksnz …
                  7 July 2024 at 10:22 am

                  Key and Luxon just figureheads as PM .
                  Key was a currency trader in London and New York while Luxon brand manager for deodorants and such. Complete newbies as far as public service goes.

                  English was a treasury bureaucrat- and chair of the Haitaitai branch of the party in Wellington when he became an Mp for a rural area he grew up in.. but went to boarding school in Wellington.

                  Willis and Bishop are the actual decision makers ( remarkable for how often they get Luxon to quickly flip flop on issues) and as explained before are long time party cadres since graduation.

                  Reply
                • Darien Fenton …
                  7 July 2024 at 10:26 am

                  You said it. What, after all is a "successful career?" Does this mean anyone who isn't a business corporate and making huge amounts of money is unsuccessful? What a sorry outlook.

                  Reply
      • Craig H 16.2.2
        6 July 2024 at 1:24 pm

        I only looked post-Moore but going by Wikipedia, Phil Goff left school early to work in a freezing works to save up the money to go to university and worked as a union organiser after returning from his OE.

        Only Goff and Little were union staff, but there was a range of careers among leaders and deputies since Moore besides political careers – Clark and Cullen were academics, Parker, Caygill and Little were lawyers, Cunliffe was a management consultant, King was a dental nurse, Shearer, Sepuloni and Davis were teachers (Davis also a principal), Robertson, Ardern and Hipkins were policy and political advisers.

        Given the last 3, I can see where the perception comes from but it's more nuanced than just being the only or even standard career pathway to Labour leadership.

        Reply
    • Ad 16.3
      6 July 2024 at 4:32 pm

      +100

      Rayner's the one to watch while Starmer calms the farm.

      Reply
      • Darien Fenton 16.3.1
        6 July 2024 at 5:12 pm
        • 100%. Here's a little memory from me about Labour politicians' union backgrounds. In my time as MP, there was me, Sue Moroney, Carol Beaumont, Vui Mark Gosche, Rick Barker, Lianne Dalziel and others. Current MPs : Rachel Boyack worked for FIRST Union, Willie Jackson started as a freezing worker and became a union organiser. Jan Tinetti was active in the PPTA. Phil Twyford was a union organiser for SFWU, Laumaga Lydia Sosene is a long term union member. Last term, Labour MP Ibrahim Omer, refugee and Living Wage campaigner worked for E Tu, and has gone back there. . I am sure there are others as well.
        Reply
  17. SPC 17
    6 July 2024 at 6:20 pm

    An ex Tory Party boss reckons tactical voting will be important in 2029, as will modernising its use of media platforms, remaining a broad centre-right party and

    Above all, the Conservative must unambiguously set its moral compass in the direction of public service, obligation and duty firmly based on the Nolan Principles of Public Life (selflessness, integrity, objectivity, accountability, openness, honesty and leadership)

    He must have heeded Peter Oborne's criticism.

    https://x.com/EricPickles/status/1809295591152971954

    Reply
  18. SPC 18
    6 July 2024 at 10:03 pm

    I think it was Sidney Reilly who first said – "don't be a Nigel, better to assume a new name than be a Nigel".

    And who can forget the quote of Wat Tyler, to trust a king to is to be visited by 2 knights betrayed by one – "now you know how we felt".

    Oswald Farange – to nationalism, what the Ferengi are to capitalism.

    Reply

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