Upcoming Conflict Between Justice and Politics in the United States

12 comments on “Upcoming Conflict Between Justice and Politics in the United States ”

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1. Maurice 1

   8 November 2022 at 10:30 am

   "better or worse is its largest properly functioning democracy such as it is"

   A common error as the US is a Constitutional Republic with trappings of democratic selection of a varied range of public appointments [from Dog Catcher to President!]

   Basically a floundering leviathan with its component parts pitted against each other in a tangled web of nepotism and crony capitalism loosely held together by raw grasping for power.
   • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1

     8 November 2022 at 3:56 pm

     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index#By_country

     Country Democracy Index (2021)
     Norway (1) . . .. . . . 9.75 (Full democracy)
     Aotearoa NZ (2) . . 9.37 [We don't know how lucky we are!]
     Ireland (7) . . . . . . . 9.0
     Australia (9) . . .. . . 8.9
     Japan (17) . . . . . . . 8.15
     UK (18) . . . . .. . . . . 8.1 (Full democracy)
     USA (26) . . . .. . . . . 7.85 (Flawed democracy)
     India (46) . . .. . . . . 6.91
     Brazil (47) . . . . . . . 6.86 (Flawed democracy)
     Fiji (84) . . .. . . . . . . 5.61 (Hybrid regime)
     Ukraine (86) . . . . . 5.57
     Russia (124) . . . . . 3.24 (Authoritarian)

     Aotearoa NZ is a "full democracy" (democracy index >9 for the last 17 years).

     The USA slipped slightly below the full democracy threshold in 2016, and remains a "flawed democracy". By population, India (more flawed) is the largest democracy.
     • alwyn 1.1.1

       8 November 2022 at 7:00 pm

       We are on the way down this year though.

       New Zealand is now in 4th place, having dropped to 9.26 and having dropped below Iceland and Sweden. We are just ahead of Finland (9.25) and Ireland (9.24).

       If we pass Three Waters and the Hate Speech rubbish before they calculate the numbers I would expect us to get below 8 though.

       https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/democracy-countries
       • Drowsy M. Kram 1.1.1.1

         8 November 2022 at 8:16 pm

         We are on the way down this year though.

         There there alwyn, sorry to rain on your "Three Waters and the Hate Speech rubbish" parade, but I wouldn't panic just yet.

         "We are on the way down this year" because we were up (to 9.37) last year, so perhaps give our Government some credit for that, hmm? Aotearoa NZ's democracy index from 2010 – 2019 (9.26) was the same as it is this year (2022), and 0.01 higher than 2020.
         Read what you will into these earth-shattering changes, but don't bust a gut
       • roblogic 1.1.1.2

         8 November 2022 at 11:12 pm

         After seeing the piece by Bryce Edwards recently, I've softened my stance on the Hate Speech changes. The proposed reform is way more timid than I thought. Labour knows it's a divisive vote loser.

         Efeso's loss of Auckland signals to me that Labour’s woke Wellington cadre has alienated its South Auckland constituency of working class families, often religious, who lean towards economic justice, but find the SJW rhetoric off putting.

         As I have banging on about for years.

         Bryce Edwards: A Culture war over hate speech and free speech is unlikely – Democracy Project
   • Patricia Bremner 1.2

     8 November 2022 at 4:43 pm

     Maurice Agree 100%. Then add guns and stir. We better hope Biden can hold the Senate the best of bad choices.
2. Stuart Munro 2

   8 November 2022 at 5:47 pm

   Interesting times.

   Putin is probably pretty much in favour of helping someone who thinks the Ukraine invasion was "sheer genius" into the Whitehouse – if he hasn't been rolled by then.

   The US is about to reap the whirlwind of cynicism with which it treated Latin democracies, and the Murdoch press is scarcely a bulwark, not even for a Dahlian polyarchy.

   Plenty of folk would love to see it fail – not sure what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouching towards Washington will be an improvement.
3. SPC 3

   8 November 2022 at 11:02 pm

   The most corrupt state in the USA is Wisconsin.

   Wisconsin Republicans, who have had a viselike grip on the Legislature since enacting the nation’s most aggressive gerrymander after their 2010 sweep of the state’s elections, make no apologies for pressing their advantage to its limits. Mr. Michels, the party’s nominee for governor, told supporters this week, “Republicans will never lose another election in Wisconsin after I’m elected governor.”

   “When you can win a majority of voters and have close to a third of the seats, it’s not true democracy,” said Greta Neubauer, the Democratic leader in the State Assembly. “We are very much at risk of people deciding that it’s not worthwhile for them to continue to engage because they see how rigged the system is against the people of the state in favor of Republican politicians.”

   https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/04/us/politics/wisconsin-voting-republicans-supermajorities.html?
4. SPC 4

   8 November 2022 at 11:14 pm

   The USA has been described as having reached competitive authoritarianism, a state where elections are still held so that people can continue to pretend they still live in a democracy.

   But even Aron, a longtime skeptic of the idea that America is on the path to authoritarianism, is rethinking her views in light of the GOP’s increased commitment to anti-democratic politics since January 6.

   “I can’t say anything good” about Republican behavior, she tells me. “They want to stay in power and they want to change the system so it will benefit them as much as possible.”

   This view is approaching a consensus among experts. A recent letter by 100 leading scholars of democracy warned that “Republican-led state legislatures across the country have in recent months proposed or implemented what we consider radical changes to core electoral procedures. … Collectively, these initiatives are transforming several states into political systems that no longer meet the minimum conditions for free and fair elections. Hence, our entire democracy is now at risk.”

   https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/08/american-democracy-backsliding-competitive-authoritarianism/
5. roblogic 5

   8 November 2022 at 11:19 pm

   The oligarchs have figured out how to hack democracy. They have been busy little beavers tearing up the social fabric, ever since the New Deal saved their asses from pitchfork wielding mobs.

   Their time will come again
6. Mike the Lefty 6

   9 November 2022 at 9:12 am

   All this points to why the judiciary and the government should be separate. When the government IS the judiciary you do not get justice. You get Thailand, North Korea, China , Russia, and a whole heap of African and banana republics.

   I remember a long time ago when Geoffrey Palmer was Minister of Justice and he was being interviewed on television about some case where a person right's were effectively being denied by legal delays. The interviewer asked him "But can't you do something for her…." or something similar. Palmer answered that he personally would like to but he simply could not because as a member of the government it could be interpreted as political interference in the judiciary.

   The separation of government and judiciary is something we should treasure and not throw away lightly. The Americans should do likewise.
7. Peter 7

   9 November 2022 at 10:23 am

   To some extent the US situation is summed up by Georgia. A candidate for the senate has campaigned on abortion and supported strict conservative attitudes to it. Turns out, as t6he electioneering has gone on that two women he had relationships with had abortions which he was involved with.

   Of course he lied, and when more substantial evidence was presented he lied again, and denied and on it went until a second woman came forward.

   He is going to deny abortion rights to others. One of the women he was involved with said the candidate "pressured her" into having an abortion.

   That's how it rolls in the US. How would such a candidate fare in NZ given the same history and demonstrating similar qualities? When you look at the ruckus about Sam Uffindell they'd probably not make the race or withdraw.

   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63293755

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