Counting the cost – long time dying

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1. Gosman 1

   6 August 2014 at 9:01 am

   I’m not sure anyone is advocating that New Zealand becomes more like the US. In fact there are huge market distortions in the US caused by government policies that NZ does not suffer from.
   • tricledrown 1.1

     6 August 2014 at 11:22 am

     Gosman your vague Generalization is pure obfuscation! we have been heading more towards the US model than say the Danish model which was was what we had before Rogernomics This Government has been quietly sneaking in more and more policy that has increased poverty in New Zealand once called Godzone land of Milk and Honey.
     Now its called the the land of which National is helping milking it of all its money.
     • Gosman 1.1.1

       6 August 2014 at 12:16 pm

       Umm… I think you might be a tad confused over Denmark. The economy is rated higher in the index of economic freedoms than the US and is only a few places below NZ http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking. Additionally it has a very flexible labour market where people can be hired or fired at will (none of this only 90 days business). It is coupled with strong support for the unemployed it must be stated but overall it seems to be even more pro business than what we have here.
   • tricledrown 1.2

     6 August 2014 at 11:52 am

     Gosman Their is a huge distortion in your comment designed to deceive!
     Child poverty we are only second from the bottom of the OECD just ahead of the US Gosman!
     That will create a huge distortion in the amount of taxes you will have to pay as only 5% of those born into poverty get out of poverty the cost to healthcare lack of income means others have to pay more,our economy is weakened by having so many low and no income earners!
     while you distort the facts the reality is we need to invest in our future income earners to make sure we have a strong economy.
     Their are going to be less income earners as we have a rapidly ageing population and we need to make sure those income earners are well educated in good health and able to earn a lot more than the minimum wage or welfare.
     Doing nothing or very little ie band-aid very small band-aid policies like National does is consigning as many as 750,000 people of the next generation to low incomes or no incomes.
     how do i get that number of people simple their are 260,000 children now living in poverty over one generation ie 20 years that adds up to said figure.
     New Zealand can’t afford to waste this talent by leaving young New Zealanders to fail we never used to be like that .
     Ask Brain Fade Key he can’t remember that we paid his rescue him from poverty his mum got a widows pension a state house he got free healthcare and education even though his mum couldn’t afford those things!
     • Gosman 1.2.1

       6 August 2014 at 12:25 pm

       NZ child poverty rates are not the second worst in the OECD. Have a look at this report from UNICEF (Thyat well known front for promoting Right wing viewpoints) http://www.unicef-irc.org/publications/pdf/rc11_eng.pdf. NZ is in the middle of the pack on the child poverty rankings not too dissimilar to Australia and the UK and a very long way away fron the US.
       • tricledrown 1.2.1.1

         6 August 2014 at 2:07 pm

         Gosman the latest figures from the OECD rate us as one of the worst in the OECD.TV3 News
         Haven’t opened UNICEF figures but imagine they refer back to last census.
         • tricledrown 1.2.1.1.1

           6 August 2014 at 2:27 pm

           TV3 that bastion of right wingnuts which favours National as Steven Joyce has strong connections and may still have share,s I think you better bail out gosman!
         • Gosman 1.2.1.1.2

           6 August 2014 at 2:43 pm

           Poverty rates haven’t changed much in the last 20 odd years, However if you have a link to the TV3 article which claims we have some of the worst in the OECD then post it please.
           • One Anonymous Bloke 1.2.1.1.2.1

             6 August 2014 at 3:06 pm

             The last twenty odd years you say?

             By an amazing coincidence that appears to be roughly the time frame during which the failed policies were implemented.

             By another amazing coincidence, poverty rates grew in tandem with the failed policies. That’s how we know they failed: the evidence is in. We told you so.
             • Gosman …

               6 August 2014 at 3:46 pm

               Yes, the intiial impact of the reforms was to sharply increase levels of relative poverty and inequality. However this was a world wide trend and not one developed nation I know of has reversed this regardless of their political bent. Of course Venezuela has had some luck in this area but they also have some rather unpleasent side effects as well.
   • Draco T Bastard 1.3

     6 August 2014 at 3:58 pm

     I’m not sure anyone is advocating that New Zealand becomes more like the US.

     National and Act are along with UF and the Māori Party. We know this because they keep bringing in policies that started in the US and have been proven a failure there.
2. Jenny Kirk 2

   6 August 2014 at 9:05 am

   Thanks Karol. Good post. And yes – its very tiring …. this neo-liberal nightmare has been going on far too long. I’m just hoping we can call come together in sufficient numbers to make an impact this election.
   • Kiwiri 2.1

     6 August 2014 at 9:10 am

     +1
3. Tiger Mountain 3

   6 August 2014 at 9:06 am

   Excellent video, good on Sue and long time advocate Paul Blair, shameful that a govt dept has to be dragged kicking to provide its own services somewhat properly.

   The definition of services I guess has definitely changed though since Paula Rebstock’s ‘War on the poor’ was instituted and benefit categories collapsed down, so that virtually anyone with a pulse is now a jobseeker.

   Given that the Household Labour Force Survey has shown for sometime that there are more unemployed out there than there are in receipt of a UB (jobseeker support) the degeneration of WINZ into an even more sadistic barrier system has to be considered.
4. greywarbler 4

   6 August 2014 at 9:32 am

   Breaking news another drop in milk prices by 8% – there is a big season planned for next year which looks as if it is going into an oversupplied market. It present is at a price that covers cost and next year there will likely be a deficit and resulting debnt. 50% of dairy farms owned by 10% of farmers I thinnk I heard. Maybe this will end the neo lib nightmare- Tighten belts. Get Nats out and make Labour work do restitution work community service for their crime of introducing it!
   http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon
   09:05 Economic impact of plunge in global dairy price
   Overnight, dairy prices dropped 8.4 percent at the Global Dairy Trade auction. This follows a fall of almost 9 percent a fortnight ago. Economists believe Fonterra will further cut its payout to farmers – it currently stands at 6 dollars per kilo of milk solids, already down from an earlier forecast of 7 dollars. Prices are now 41 percent lower than in February,

   ANZ Rural economist Con Williams, and Jacqueline Rowarth, Professor of Agribusiness at Waikato University.
5. Tracey 5

   6 August 2014 at 9:56 am

   The thing is that we are told we have a “rockstar” economy right now. We are told that the economy has been growing. Both of these things we are told are necessary for wages and living standards to grow and yet 12,000 health workers have been offered a 0.7% pay rise.
6. tricledrown 6

   6 August 2014 at 10:12 am

   Tracy the rockstar economy is floundering on the rocks dairy prices take another dive8% down overnight
   • greywarbler 6.1

     6 August 2014 at 11:44 am

     I said at 9.32 am that the milk prices were down by 8%.
7. Tom Jackson 7

   6 August 2014 at 10:36 am

   I’m not entirely convinced by it, but this essay by David Graeber is worth reading on the topic, if you haven’t seen it already.

   http://www.thebaffler.com/salvos/a-practical-utopians-guide-to-the-coming-collapse
8. Ennui 8

   6 August 2014 at 11:21 am

   Karol, just to put a dampener on all this, don’t expect that getting rid of neo-liberalism will resolve any of the big picture issues. Neo-liberalism does not have exclusive domain over:
   * climate change or resource plundering.
   * financial overshoot and failure.
   * economic growth.
   *peak resource (oil / coal etc) use and availability.

   To mistake the big picture issues with the cosmetic layer of neo-liberalism will not help resolve those issues in the slightest. N-Lism is merely an extension of humanities greed and willful myopia.
   • Coffee Connoisseur 8.1

     6 August 2014 at 12:41 pm

     +1
   • karol 8.2

     6 August 2014 at 3:36 pm

     Oh, I agree, that the underlying capitalist ethos is the bigger problem. But there is a pressing need to turn away from this all-pervasive and socially destructive neoliberal narrative, MO, and organisation of politics. We need to start turning the ship around for any major change to happen.
     • Ennui 8.2.1

       6 August 2014 at 4:31 pm

       K, I have pondered what “system” or “ism” could possibly change around humans innate exploitative tendencies. Turning the ship around to any other of the above may have some benefits but will it save us from ourselves? I realise that this is a very bleak position to take, and has a brutal finality in that we are no other than creatures who rely upon ecosystems to support us, we dont stand outside of this. We are a species alongside every other species, subject to the same dictates of our environment.

       All that when we though that we were special, that we could tame nature with our technology and cleverness. Go to other planets,spawn across the universe, defeat death.

       To be more positive, you are correct that we need to at-least make our collision with reality slightly more comfortable. Ending neo liberalism is a good first step.
       • Draco T Bastard 8.2.1.1

         6 August 2014 at 8:11 pm

         I have pondered what “system” or “ism” could possibly change around humans innate exploitative tendencies.

         What ever makes you think that they’re innate?
9. distrurbed 9

   6 August 2014 at 11:48 am

   Tracy, Gosman.

   “12,000 health workers have been offered a 0.7% pay rise”

   Yes and yesterday in a new TV3 poll on “should we sell our farms to foreigners’ 94% of the 16 000 folks polled said NO, and National will not listen.

   We have now 25% of all farmland in NZ owned by foreign interests, thanks to the million hectare’s National has allowed sold in the last few years.

   How much is enough Key/Joyce? We will become tenants in our own land with your actions remember this!

   They will sell anything and the smashing this economy like a bull in a china shop as we speak.

   This morning Winston revelled another big farm has been sold to foreign interests just north of Gisborne.

   Gosman Now do you see your bull in the China shop?
   • Gosman 9.1

     6 August 2014 at 1:21 pm

     Where is the source for your claim that 25% of all farmland in NZ is now owned by foreign interests? I would think that if that was accurate (which I stongly suspect it is not) then the opposition parties would be making more noise about it than they are.
     • tricledrown 9.1.1

       6 August 2014 at 2:12 pm

       Gosman disturbed could be referring to non listed corporate owned farms who’s ownership can be hidden because it may be majority NZ owned. but as far as publicly listed farms that figure is only around 2.5%
       • Gosman 9.1.1.1

         6 August 2014 at 2:31 pm

         So only arounf 2.5 % of farms. Slightly different figure from 25%. Also how has this figure changed over the past 5 to 10 years?
         • Tiger Mountain 9.1.1.1.1

           6 August 2014 at 3:04 pm

           From CAFCA (Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa)
           http://canterbury.cyberplace.co.nz/community/CAFCA/index.html

           In 2012, the OIO approved the sale of 43,080 hectares of freehold rural land and 8,554 hectares of leases and other interests in land to foreigners. About 10,000 hectares of the freehold land and almost all the leases and other interests in land were from one foreign investor to another.

           In the decade 2003 to 2012, the average was 133,942 hectares of freehold and 60,435 hectares of leases and other interests in land approved for sale. Statistics on sales of land to overseas interests are poorly recorded and incomplete.

           Our best estimate is that in 2011 at least 8.7 percent of New Zealand farmland including forestry, or 1.3 million hectares, is foreign-owned or controlled and it could have reached 10 percent.

           –Overseas Investment Commission and Overseas Investment Office.
           “Overseas Ownership Of Land: Far Greater Than The 1% The PM Claims”, by Bill Rosenberghttp://www.converge.org.nz/watchdog/29/02.htm
           • Gosman 9.1.1.1.1.1

             6 August 2014 at 5:35 pm

             Now we have another figure of a best guess of 8.7% of farmland AND forestry land is owned by overseas interests. Any more estimates or best guesses?
   • Coffee Connoisseur 9.2

     6 August 2014 at 1:26 pm

     Disturbed – where did you get the figure of 25% from? I’d like to use that elsewhere, it would be very useful. Thanks
10. Coffee Connoisseur 10

    6 August 2014 at 12:45 pm

    It will probably continue for as long as the neolib ideology holds the centre ground in NZ and it is likely to continue to do that for as long as it continues to work for National and for as long as the left continues to only be able to offer an alternative based on further redistribution of wealth. People are struggling as it is and the thought of having more money taken from them to give to others doesn’t sit well with them.
    Want to change things..? Figure out how to frame your message into something that will resonate with the majority of voters. Employ change management principles of Problem, Reaction, Solution.
    The lefts problem is that someone in Mangere not having enough food is not really a pain point for them and it won’t be until they themselves are in that position.
    • SpaceMonkey 10.1

      6 August 2014 at 2:49 pm

      Neoliberalism will only hold the centre ground in NZ for as long as the banksters are calling the shots, and we have have one of them as our Prime Minister (effectively making NZ a kleptocratic technocracy) who’s doing excellent work for them.

      To see what awaits any left-leaning Government that advocates moving away from neoliberalism, one only has to look at the actions of the bankster elite in 2008. They held a proverbial gun to the head of the US government, using Lehman Brothers as the example (and the banksters let Lehman fail) of what would happen to them all, and the entire global economy, if they didn’t get their $700 billion bailout.

      The banksters could crash the NZ economy tomorrow, if they wanted. No politician wants that on their hands, so the economic model will only change with financial and commercial collapse. That is just a matter of time now as the QE being undertaken by various central banks around the world only delays and amplifies what is inevitable.
    • karol 10.2

      6 August 2014 at 3:34 pm

      Employ change management principles of Problem, Reaction, Solution.

      Unfortunately that is the language and MO of neoliberalism – managerialist politics.

      It is more important to change the over-arching narrative – as explained in Monbiot’s article, linked by johnm below.

      “Neoliberalism” is a discourse that has come to infiltrate all areas of life. It is evident throughout politics, the news media, popular culture, the education system The narrative includes individualism, the market (and business) knows best, “what’s in it for me?”, etc, etc.

      The Left needs to present develop and circulate a different narrative – one that comes from the flax roots, and the heart. it’s about “we’re all in this together”, society works best when it works for all of us.

      Focusing only on pain points for the middle/conservative section of society, will continue to support the me-centred neoliberal narrative. Those in poverty, and on benefits, will continue to be seen as sub-human; “not like us”. Part of changing the narrative is to talk about those on low incomes as fully human – part of our society – and in need of our support when things are not working well for them.
      • Coffee Connoisseur 10.2.1

        6 August 2014 at 7:53 pm

        Karol
        You do not focus only on the pain point. Thats not what I said at all. Right now you want people to change. Unfortunately for them as an individual, they have no reason too. You need to give them a personal reason too and by personal I mean something an idea whatever that makes their current position a lot less comfortable than it is now.
        It must be factual. It is bringing something to their attention they haven’t considered or had the time to think about.
        Right wingers have this sorted and its easy. Vote left and you’ll pay more in tax. Ouch don’t want to vote left then.
        You need to find something that impacts the middle class (and upper for that matter) that would make them uncomfortable in their own life if they were to vote Right.
        They then react
        You have the solution.

        It doesn’t matter one little bit that it is used by neolibs. Neolibs use it because it works. It changes human behaviour. This is used in business every single day and if you can’t grasp this concept and use it well then chances are you are not going to get the outcomes you want. If you can live with that keep dismissing it.
        (consider for a second that I am giving you this information and the changes I want to make in the world go far beyond what you are wanting to see).
        • karol 10.2.1.1

          6 August 2014 at 8:53 pm

          CC, you’re still not getting it. Business and the neoliberals treat people as individuals and focus on their “personal” motivations.

          Humans a social beings. People do tend to follow the dominant ways of doing things, and adopt the dominant values – it’s called “socialisation”.

          The neoliberals have changed society by implementing their values from above, using those sort of manipulative methods. It’s an MO that is done by people in positions of power, treating people as passive and manipulative. That way will never bring about true democracy.

          You are advocating manipulating people in ways that some in positions of power decide is best for them.

          For the left, the best counter is to work with communities, to change all those narratives in ways that works for all through democratic processes.
          • Coffee Connoissuer 10.2.1.1.1

            7 August 2014 at 12:35 pm

            Its not me that doesn’t get it Karol.
            Heres a novel idea. Why don’t you simply try using the truth to create or highlight pain points for people.
            Deception usually gets found out for what it is. Truth on the other hand is far more effective. Coupled with the right mechanism to get people thinking and you have the catalyst for change.
            • Draco T Bastard 10.2.1.1.1.1

              7 August 2014 at 6:32 pm

              Its not me that doesn’t get it.

              I can assure you that it’s you that doesn’t get it.
              • Coffee Connoissuer …

                7 August 2014 at 9:12 pm

                Care to elaborate DTB I’m all ears – your remark in that fashion …very troll like not your usual style.
                But I guess that since I don’t in your opinion and you all therefore must, I guess we’ll see the left in power and poverty and war eradicated along with all the other problems solved too.
                Fantastic! Can’t wait and now knowing you have it all in hand I’ll just sit back and relax. Big thumbs up and all that.
                • karol …

                  8 August 2014 at 8:45 am

                  Well, CC. I’ve made the argument. You haven’t responded to it, but keep repeating your argument to use top-down, manipulative, management strategies – and then talk about letting the truth come to the fore…… except only in the narrowly defined, individualistically-focused way that you choose.

                  Why not encourage the development of a different narrative that people within communities decide on through democratic debate and collaborative engagement? Why not focus on the ways society can work for us all?
11. disturbed 11

    6 August 2014 at 1:30 pm

    Coffee Connoisseur – “Employ change management principles of Problem, Reaction, Solution.”

    By then nothing will be left for us to fight for as they will have it all sold.

    You hark on about getting the message out there, it isn’t that simple when those rich pricks all run the media!

    We cannot get a fair shake of the stick when it comes to being able to “frame your message into something that will resonate with the majority of voters”

    We now have the Neo liberals running the entire media of this country don’t you see?

    I have pointed out preciously that Joyce has the media by the neck as he has interests there and now yesterday appointed Mark Weldon as Boss of Media Works so that was our last “Impartial media, TV3 Nats call Left wing leaning”

    As Government has recently taken control and screens all NZTV reporters Columnists and Journalists now.

    Read all about there policy borrowed from Joseph Goebbels.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/…locaust/goebbels.html

    We now have a dictatorship so do you advocate we begin another protest or riot? How long before they use the police before we are stopped, so where are we headed? Give us your view after reading Goebbels.
    • Gosman 11.1

      6 August 2014 at 2:26 pm

      Your supporting evidence for your belief that Government has recently taken control and screens all NZTV reporters Columnists and Journalists now is a link (which doesn’t seem to work) to something about Goebbel’s is it? Not entirely persuassive there.
    • Coffee Connoisseur 11.2

      6 August 2014 at 2:37 pm

      Disturbed – never said it would be easy but…. I love the saying that if nothing changes then nothing changes.
      If you want a change from the existing system you have to destroy the idea that it is a system that works.
      You have to destroy the idea that government works in its current format and that peoples votes can actually make a difference.
      But for many, you haven’t come to (and may not ever) that conclusion despite the fact that it is true.
      Don’t make excuses about the media being owned. The MSM has never been more untrusted by the general populace.
      You need to first determine what is important to people. You then need to frame how the system fails to deliver this for the majority and how if we remain on the path that we are on that it will only get worse.
      You need to employ solid but easy to understand un refutable arguments to support your position.
      You need to get more organised. (think blogs and social media not protests – this is a battle for peoples minds) in my view the left doesnt have a blog or equivalent that has the ability to capture peoples imagination and to achieve the goals you have this is needed.
      There are networks/groups in every country in the world that want to change it. Use them but first formulate and be clear on your message, your vision.
      You need to determine who to target with this message.
      You need to give them an alternative that they can believe in
      More importantly you need to give them a vision of a future that they can view as their vision. Something that they can buy into. Something that they will own in their own mind as their future. Something that they will fight for.
      The fight that you want to win will not require you to control the MSM. In fact the MSM has already lost control.
      You need to understand the issues not only those on the left of the political spectrum but the issues of those on the right.
      You need to provide a solution and a vision that caters for both. (this is easier than it sounds once you understand what both want. What their pain points are).
      You need to show them how the current offerrings are unable to provide them what they want (at least not more than temporarily).
      Like most though engaged in the political system you’ll need to come to that realisation yourself first.
      For most who are engaged that will be the hardest part to come to terms with.
      Many never will. Many will wste much of their lives fighting for things that the system is simply not able to deliver in its current format.

      Whether you think you have the ability to change the world or that you don’t… you will be right no matter which option you choose.
12. johnm 12

    6 August 2014 at 2:32 pm

    “Sick of this market-driven world? You should be

    The self-serving con of neoliberalism is that it has eroded the human values the market was supposed to emancipate ” By George Monbiot

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/05/neoliberalism-mental-health-rich-poverty-economy
    • disturbed 12.1

      6 August 2014 at 5:40 pm

      Good one Johnm,
      Excellent summary and understanding of where we have gone to.

      With the benefit of age I and all those of our war born generation have seen, now greed and selfishness goes now before all else.

      We are headed for a big bang and so sorry to witness it in my 70yrs of global living. No sense of doing the right thing any more I am afraid.
13. tricledrown 13

    6 August 2014 at 2:37 pm

    Gosman Public servants right across all ministries including broadcasting no doubt have been told bullied in some cases not to release information that shows the govt in a bad light .
    Tony Ryall in health Steven Joyce and Hekia Parata have all issued warnings that anyone doing so will be in danger of loosing their jobs!
    that includes being involved in political parties which really means left leaning political parties because their are not many well paid public servants these days !
    Joyce has cut funding to researchers who show the govt’s policies on poverty and health outcomes are failing!
    • Gosman 13.1

      6 August 2014 at 2:51 pm

      Ahhh…. so not only is the Media somehow managed and controlled by the government but the supposedly independent public service has been so thoroughly corrupted that it no longer performs it function but does the bidding of the National party. Seems like you lefties are really up against it.
14. disturbed 14

    6 August 2014 at 4:01 pm

    Coffee Connoisseur
    Gagged media.

    Yesterday – Mark Weldon has just been made boss of Media Works,

    You know the one that Joyce founded as Radio Works and merged to make MediaWorks right?

    Now we have TV3 as the only reasonable level media left wing Gassman calls them.

    Sorry CC you are way behind us, unless you have been leading the charge on issues in a community NGO for 15yrs in NZ.

    We have for 15 years been out there doing exactly what you said but like I said the media has now gone all spooky as though they don’t want us and other local groups to contribute much any more.

    Why do you think we came here?

    Give it a try by attacking the Neo liberal system and shonkey/Joyce clique and you will find out for your self.

    Gassman always loves to attack everyone guess its his Nat’s job.
    He cant search for Joseph Goebbels? there are six at least referenced articles of his history in the third Reich from 1933, he is useless.

    25% farmland gone.

    As for the facts over 20% of our farmland has now gone to Foreigner’s.

    1 million was given the nod by Nats in a short few years the Campbell live show last night said.

    Before then we were told by Sunday Star Times that another almost one million also went to Foreigners prior to this.

    Yes some were foreign institutional and bank deals.

    Add those together. 2 million.

    Then add the large farm that Winston just found out about yesterday another large dairy,sheep farm north of Gisborne was sold secretly.

    He has vowed to stop it he said on the news yesterday.

    In the Campbell live show last night it all came out there, we have just over 8 million hectares of high productivity farmland and now 2 million hectares has gone to foreigner’s. Do the math.
    I sent the whole facts docs and all to a Journalist group to research further and cover pre election. Done my bit.
    • Gosman 14.1

      6 August 2014 at 5:40 pm

      You were asked to back up your claim of 25% of NZ farmland in overseas ownership but have not done so. You are merely pulling more unsubstantiated figures from the air and expect them to be taken at face value. Perhaps you can reference another Nazi so we can somehow deduce from that the answer to an entirely unrelated matter.
    • Coffee Connoissuer 14.2

      7 August 2014 at 12:49 pm

      I’d love to reply point by point.
      You have the right information.
      The way you frame the message is what is letting you down.
      So is the delivery mechanisms you are using.
      example protest – politicians response… simply wait it out. They will return to their homes and everything returns to normal.
      To achieve the goals you want you need a much longer term strategy. The people you have in the hot seats can’t think much beyond a 3 year election cycle. Whilst they continue to think this way you will continue to fail more than you succeed in getting the change you want.
      How you want to deliver (fund) the change you want is also pretty much the equivalent to a giant anchor holding you back.
15. feijoa 15

    6 August 2014 at 6:05 pm

    LOVED those pots and pans
16. Draco T Bastard 16

    6 August 2014 at 8:04 pm

    Sick of this market-driven world? You should be

    Even when outcomes are based on talent and hard work, they don’t stay that way for long. Once the first generation of liberated entrepreneurs has made its money, the initial meritocracy is replaced by a new elite, which insulates its children from competition by inheritance and the best education money can buy. Where market fundamentalism has been most fiercely applied – in countries like the US and UK – social mobility has greatly declined.

    You know, I think we should stop calling it neo-liberalism and start calling it what it is – neo-feudalism.
17. averyold pakeha 17

    7 August 2014 at 12:03 am

    Key is yor classic financier promising a pot o gold out of someone elses pocket but when it comes to his lot they go for the political jugular and get elected so that they can cover their tracks behind a smokescreen of publicity and propaganda and never have to pay a thing because they have always got someone else to blame for the mess that is the world o finance
    Banks are thieves the stock markets a rout money is hardly worth the paper its printed on and the world is 90% man made junk and waste
    All one can really hope is that you are still entitled to sanity after the mad men are finished

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1. Valuing child care: beyond 'show me the money!' « The Standard The Standard: posted on 19 August 2014 at 10:40 am

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